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Interview with Walter Joseph Marm, Jr. [n.d.]

Unknown interviewer:

Just for the editor, just state your name, spell your last name and where you're from. [OFF-MIKE OFF TOPIC]

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

My name is Walter Joseph Marm Jr. And my last name is spelled M-a-r-m.

Unknown interviewer:

And where are you from?

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

I live now in my wife's hometown of Freemont, North Carolina.

Unknown interviewer:

What was your childhood like. Where did you grow up, what did you do.

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

I was born and raised in a small town in western Pennsylvania called Washington, PA. It's southwest of Pittsburgh about - about 25 miles. And I grew up there, went to school, high, grade school, elementary - elementary, middle school and high school all, all there.

Unknown interviewer:

Were you into sports -

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

I went to a parochial high school. They didn't have sports until my sophomore year and they had basketball and I never practiced or been much at basketball so I wasn't really a super star. I - I did shoot on a rifle team but it was a club team throughout my high school years. And I was a boy scout. So I liked - loved, I really liked boy scouts. I made it to the rank of eagle in the company or in the - the troop disintegrated and I didn't switch to another troop. So I, but I had a, yeah, that was a very good background for my military activities.

Unknown interviewer:

Of course of course. Who did you look up to then?

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

In terms of a mentor, I would same some of the older boys that - that were in high school with me. I was - one was an altar boy that kind of trained me. And he had a neat car. He had a 39 Ford coupe and maintained it himself. But he - he was about 4 years - so he was kind of my high school mentor type person. He -good, good guy. As far as I knew. I wasn't that close to him but just seeing him in school and he was a good, good clean kid as far as I could tell.

Unknown interviewer:

When did you decide to enlist and why?

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

I graduated from high school in 60 - 59, I'm sorry. 1959 and went right into to, to college. I started out in pharmacy and realized that - was having a little trouble with chemistry. We had a very very tough chemistry professor. He was one of those guys that weeded everybody out. And anyway, I switched to business. And back then, we had to take 2 years -everybody had to take 2 years of ROTC. But for me to - to finish up in the required amount of time, they waivered that. So I didn't take ROTC like my contemporaries. But I shot on the rifle team at Duquesne and I ran cross country my senior year. But on the rifle team I was associated with the army ROTC and there was a draft and I have been drafted pretty - probably pretty soon after I graduated which - and I graduated in June of 64. So in that - that spring, I decided to enlist for the draft. And I enlisted under the college option program 5 days after I graduated. And so talking to the - the ROTC people they said, hey, you gotta go in and serve as an officer. If you like it, you can stay in. If you don't, you can get out and use that on your resume. And that good experience you would have received as - as an officer. Sounded good to me. I had no, no military background. My father had not served. He was a state patrolman. State trooper in the Pennsylvania state police. And had not served in World War II like a lot of his contemporaries because he was - they wouldn't let him out of the state police to -to serve. They needed some law enforcement people and so he never - plus he had a family too. He had 2 kids and he didn't - just, he tried to enlist but he didn't make it. So I enlisted under the college option program in Pittsburgh.

Unknown interviewer:

Where did you train?

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

So I went in 5 days after I graduated, we took a train from Pittsburgh. My first train ride. Never been on an airplane. So it was my first train ride from Pittsburgh down to South Carolina. And went down with another guy who went through the same program I was gonna be in. And he was from [ ? ] City and I was from, from Washington. He went to Penn State and graduated and so we went down on the same train and landed in Ft. Jackson, South Carolina. Spent the first 3 days of my army in there getting all suited up. And all the equipment. Then they shipped us down to Ft. Gordon, Georgia. Which is in Augusta. And so I spent, I went through basic and advanced, basic training and advanced individual training there. We were the first unit to - to enlist or to go in under this college option program. They were having a lot of trouble getting college graduates through OCS and so they were - Vietnam hadn't really started up. And they wanted to get more college graduates through OCS. Our OCS in the army was kind of geared for the enlisted man who had a lot of experience. And we didn't have too much experience jumping right in with basic and - and AI, advanced individual training. So they sent us through some special leadership courses at night and -and during our 16 weeks at Ft. Gordon and I think we had a pretty high success rate. We were the first unit, the first group to do it and I think they continued doing similar type things as Vietnam started building up. But OCS back then was a six month program and it was at Ft. - you either had two choices -Ft. Benning OCS or Ft. Sill. And with my boy scout training and my rifle training - I like to shoot with the marks - I didn't like to hunt too much. But I like - I like to shoot. And my dad was on the pistol team for the state but pistol shooting was, I think is much tougher to shoot a pistol when you have to, to hold your arm out there - - and keep it steady versus with a rifle. But anyway, so I - I liked that and I thought well infantry would probably be better for me. So I, I went to the - the infantry OCS.

Unknown interviewer:

Let's move forward to Vietnam and tell me about your first action. First time you encountered the enemy or they encountered you.

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

We were - when I enlisted, I never, I never thought I'd be going to Vietnam. Didn't know where Vietnam was and we're in basic training. They said you guys better pay attention. You may, you're gonna go to Vietnam. Because it was starting to, to build up a little bit. But we hadn't sent any major units to Vietnam in the 64 era when I, when I first went in in June of 64 and so it was a 10 month period before I was commissioned. So after I was commissioned, I went right into ranger school. And I was in the last phase, the Florida phase when they needed lieutenants to form up this - - the first cav division that was forming up at Ft. Benning to head over to Vietnam. And so they took about 40 of my classmates, my Ranger classmates and reassigned us, changed our orders and sent us right there to Ft. Benning. And so we were on our way and we left. We were at Ft. Benning a month. The month of July and August while the cav was getting ready to go. And we were getting a lot of new people in. And but our unit had been working and training together and I think that was a very important aspect. There was a lot of esprit there because they had been training and fighting the air assault concept in the Carolinas against the 101st and 82nd. It proved very successful, this - the air mobility and the air assault on how to get around and maneuver the enemy. So we went over to Vietnam with over 400 helicopters with the first cavalry division. It was a very expensive unit and a brand new theory. And the helicopter was the - was the jeep of the Vietnam war. And so we had tremendous assets at our disposal. Any time we needed any type of resupply it was, the helicopter was there to bring it in. Couldn't fly in bad weather normally but they were - I have to hand it to the helicopter crews, the pilots and the crewmen that - - they would come in about anywhere any time to help us out. [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

There was a lot, like I said a lot of esprit with that first, that, that first year because they had trained together for so long. But so -

Unknown interviewer:

Where in Vietnam did you - [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

We were up in the central highlands. We opened up a new fire base. You can imagine securing 400 helicopters. They called it the golf course. They had to clear - an advance party went over of about 1500. They flew in and started clearing the - the division headquarters up in a place called Onkay which is up in Ikor, up in the central highlands. And when the rest of the division came over by ship, we left Charleston in the middle of -Charleston, South Carolina on US merchant marine ships. And our - they held, they were World War II type vehicles and were manned by merchant marines. So we went over by ship 30 days through - left Charleston to the Panama canal, then over to Vietnam. It arrived there and then we were trucked up to our - our division headquarters. And so right away we, we got busy. We were providing, providing security on the - - on the perimeter because it required a large amount of troops to provide security for - for a division fire base. And that's one of the first things that - that I was told to do or asked - or told to do is to go out and do a recon platoon - or a recon patrol in front of our perimeter. And so I did it just like I had done in Rangers school. And I - I want to say Rangers school was the best training I'd received for - for this. It gave me a lot of confidence because in Ranger school, you're just steady patroling. And so that first patrol I had to take out was - was very instrumental. I was very confident about it even though we were going out in the badlands of, of Vietnam. We didn't make any contact on that initial patrol. But I went out and we found some - - a couple, some signs that the - that the North - or the VC or the NOrth Vietnamese were out there. And I came back and was debriefed by our intelligence officer at the battalion level and - and it was a success in terms of -we went out and went back without the - any casualties.

Unknown interviewer:

Tell me about your first contact with the enemy.

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

It was an operation in October. Back then they were called search and destroy where we were actually going on battalion sweeps. We'd have battalions going out searching an entire area with battalion commanders on the ground and we - - one of my men came across an en - well he was probably the Vietcong. And - and shot him. And that was our first contact. It wasn't my - in terms of my platoon and it hasn't been - and we probably got one of the first in - first enemy killed in action for the division. It's not, nowhere is that -that's just kind of the - the scuttlebutt. It's not written down that you had the first -our, our unit had the first enemy killed in action. But - he wasn't, he was an - he wasn't an NVA, he was probably a local VC. But I guess another time there was - there were some, someone in a - and we were going, we were sweeping through an area and there were some -some suspects in a cave. In a, in a bunker in the ground. And - and I asked, I called back on the radio, I says, sir, what do you want me to do? Do you want me to - he says - and he put the, the monkey back on my shoulders. He says use your discretion. In other words it was, it was my choice on how I got, how I got rid of him. I was afraid if I walked through that area, they were gonna shoot us in the back. We had a - an interpreter with us and he was able to talk them out. And it was, it was the mamasans and some, some women and children. So I'm very thankful that we were able to do that. Because I didn't know what was in there. I couldn't - you couldn't see real, you couldn't go - we didn't want to - you have to be real careful when you're going in tunnels and caves and things. So we were able to talk them out and - and I was very thankful that we didn't frag children and, and women. So that was - I was very, very happy that, that that happened. And that was a good, good thing. Because I didn't want to have that on - on my conscience or my mens' conscience you know. Having some, some friendlies killed, killed in - I mean we didn't know whether they were friendly or enemy because this was kind of -we were told by, this was no man's land in, in terms of, this was - it was kind of a free fire. But you still didn't want to shoot women and children.

Unknown interviewer:

Talk about the actions that led to your medal.

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

This - there's a book out called We Were Soldiers Once and Young written by our battalion commander and the only reporter at the battle. Colonel Hal Moore and Joe Galloway wrote the book. But it took them about 15 years to compile all the - - to get the information and they were asking all the soldiers to - for input on the battle. And so it took them a long time. And it was a well written and well, well done book. And a movie was just made in the, in 2002. It come out in May with Mel Gibson the star. And the title of it is, We Were Soldiers. So they cut the title of the book down so it fit on the marquee. And it's about the first major battle of the war. And it's called the battle of Idrang and - and it's - they saw on the intelligence map that there was an enemy concentration in this area. Says well let's go check it out. And a lot of times you're out there beating the bush and you never find anything. And you come back and - but this time was, it was not the case. There was definitely enemy out there. They were waiting for Americans to - to come, to come in and either - they were fresh from the north. In fact two of their battalions did not arrive yet. They were heavy mortar battalions, they were 120 millimeter mortars in their anti aircraft, anti aircraft tanks had not arrived yet. So that was a plus for us and for our helicopters that they were not able to - to have those - - have all their units with them. But that's the - that's the fog of war and sometimes that happens even to you know - our units too. That not everything you want is there. But this battle started - it was a 3 day battle called the battle of idrang. The initial part of it was - was a 3 day battle. On the 14th of November 1965 and I was a platoon leader of a rifle platoon in A company, first battalion 7th cavalry. And the 7th cavalry's lineage goes back to General George Armstrong Custer. And throughout the heat of that battle, we thought we were in another Little Big Horn. And surrounded and outnumbered but we had something that Custer didn't have. We had the artillery and the, the indirect support to help us out.

Unknown interviewer:

I've been reading on the different wars and it seemed like that may - the radio, not only the radio contact but the helicopters made it a different war.

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

Yes, sir. [OFF-MIKE OFF TOPIC]

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

Yes, sir. We were - we were very fortunate -in fact the landing zone we went into was about a six - was about an 8 shipper landing zone. So it was a fairly - a fairly open area. But there was, it was surrounded by - we were about 5 kilometers from the Cambodian border. And the enemy was up in, in the mountains there. We didn't know where but we knew that - and right, right after we landed, we captured - [BOTH SPEAK AT ONCE]

Unknown interviewer:

- the helicopters came in.

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

8, we had, we had 16 and it would - and 8 would land. We, the area was - we were the second company and Bravo company came in first and my company and Alpha company was the second company in. But it was a long turnaround from where we were at in another, in another area. It was like a - like a 30, a 30 minute turnaround between 16 ship flights.

Unknown interviewer:

Did you draw fire upon landing or not -

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

We - the first unit in did not draw fire. They prepped - they had a 20 minute prep with -they had - 105 had a - two batteries of 105 Howitzers about 6 kilometers away at another land - at another small fire base. And they, they had prepped it with - with 105 millimeter - or organic artillery, 105 millimeter Howitzer batteries. And then we prepped it with - with our helicoptes too as they came in. They came in shooting with the - the M60s, the machine guns on the sides of the hel - you're gonna do that on initial landing. Because once you're getting in on the ground, you know you have to be careful where you're shooting. So Bravo was first in and they they provided - usually you would, you would have 360 degree perimeter with, with your first left in, the first, first group. But he decided to go out and - with, with clumps of men not - not just a complete linear perimeter. He just went out and kind of - and strong poited the perimeter in that respect. And so General Moore was the first in and last out. Battalion - Col. Moore, battalion commander. I called him a general because he retired as a 3 star. So - and he was a very very fine leader.

Unknown interviewer:

Tell me once you're on the ground, what happened?

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

Once our company came in, we had to wait until our, our entire company was on the ground. Bravo company - once - once we relieved them of the, of the - providing - and our job was, was initially to provide security Bravo started searching for the enemy. And right away they captured, they captured a couple of NVA that were - looked like they were hungry and the interpreter said that they were - they were - there was a V - Vietcong or an NVA regiment that wanted to kill Americans. And the man that captured them was a neighbor of mine in North Carolina. And he didn't get credit for it. But he was - he was there. And he was, had 14 days to go before his two years of service were up. He was a draftee like many of our troops were. So we went in with about 450 troops in, in that, of the battalion. We were about 200 short. And so - like I didn't have a medic. One of my sergeants was a medic in Vietnam and even though he had a team to lead he carried our aide back with us. Because our medic had rotated back.

Unknown interviewer:

So tell me what happened.

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

Well once Bravo got on the ground and started - started maneuvering for the enemy, they, they found some enemy and they started pursuing them. One platoon of Bravo company got ahead of the rest of the company. And were pursuing them and pretty hard. And got cut off from the rest of the - of Bravo company. That platoon, they called the lost platoon. Because within a matter of minutes the - the platoon leader that was an OCS classmate of mine named Bob Taft was killed. His platoon sergeant was shot very quickly too. The second in command and a couple of the - the squad leaders were shot too. So the command was, was turned - was - senior man was a motor sergeant. His name was Ernie Savage and - and he, once he took over - and they took some casualties - they - they had a platoon of about 35. But they, they were able to - to hold off. And our job was to try to get up to them. My company commander attached me to Bravo company to make - to make an assault to try to get up to them. So I, I went up and linked up with the Bravo company commander and we, we made an attempt to get up to Bravo company. That one platoon. We weren't successful. We had to pull back. This is when we - it was getting - so we made one attempt and we were making a second attempt with our entire comp - two companies. The third company was providing security. And so we started up a second time late in the afternoon with an artillery prep in front of us. And we were taking heavy fire from our front. from the NVA. And - and we were not, it was kind of crawling and we were trying to stay on line as best we could with our artillery prep in front of us. And there was one machine gun - - it was an anthill. We call it a machine gun bunker but it was a solidified rock anthill. It was about 7 or 8 feet in - in height. And maybe about 6 feet in, in length. And there were shrubs and trees around it. So it was very difficult to get a grenade over it where the - - where the enemy was. And they were - you know it was - when you think of Vietnam, you think of heavy jungle. This is, was not real heavy jungle. There were trees and elephant grass. So it was - so it was not thick thick jungle like you think of Vietnam. And so the second attempt, I tried to get one of my men to - to throw a grenade from where we were at which was about, about 50 meters. But he thought I meant I wanted - I motioned because of the heat of battle, I says, go up and throw that - - throw a grenade over the top of the bunker. Because we were pretty much right in front of the bunker. And I thought we were in a pretty strategic position because most of the firing was going on after the flanks of the bunker maybe on - on the top two. But I, I thought mostly from the flanks. He thought I meant to throw it from where we were at. He threw it and it landed. Didn't get over. Landed in front and made a big boom. I shot a LAW, land anti tank weapon into that bunker to try to silence it. So yeah, it's a one shot disposable weapon. It's anti tank weapon. And it went off and made a big boom. Really picked up the morale. Picked up my morale because of the - we thought we knocked it out. We started forward again and it - - the weapons firing all along our front picked up again. So that's when I said it's time for me to do it myself. So I ran across about 50, 40 years, 40, 50 yards of - of open terrain and charged the bunker. Had my rifle and my grenades with me. And it was a pretty straight shot. I wanted to do it, I told the men to hold their fire and not to - not to shoot me up while I was doing it. So I was worried about getting shot by my own men. Ran - ran in front - front of the bunker, threw a grenade over the top. When it went off, I went around to the left side and there were some, some - it was kind of, kind of hazy now but there are still some - some guys that were - were there shooting. So I - I finished them off with my M16. When things were pretty sound from my area, I turned sideways and I told our men, let's go, we gotta get up to the platoon that was trapped on the side of a mountain. When - when I got shot. It went in my left jaw and went out here. And kind of ruined my day. I thought I was - - had to feel my teeth to make sure I still had my teeth. And one - my sergeant that was the - the medic in Korea, came up and him and a couple of other guys were the first up. They made it up to me okay. They patched me up and a couple of my men took me to the back. That was the first day of the battle and it was - it lasted for 2 more days. It was pretty heavy, pretty - pretty heavy contact.

Unknown interviewer:

I would say so.

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

It got heavier - they had some, some great or some tremendous support from the air force and from our inorganic - inorganic weapons.

Unknown interviewer:

Did they ever find the -

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

Yes. The next day they went up and - that night they put a ring of steel around the platoon. The - Ernie Savage, the E5 sergeant that was in charge, he never lost a man once he took over. And was able to put a ring of steel whenever he thought the enemy was - - sounded like they were getting ready to - he held off 3 attacks that night himself around his position. And he - was able to call in artillery and Moore's support and was able to survive. The next afternoon, they - they made it back. Bravo company and some other units that came in to reinforce that the morning of the second day, made it back and were able to get them out. END SIDE A BEGIN SIDE B

Unknown interviewer:

So when did you hear about that you were gonna receive the medal of honor.

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

I received an interim silver star. After I recuperated at Valley Forge army hospital, they try to send you as close to your, your home as they can. I felt guilty about not going back because all my men were still over there. And I'd been reading about the battle. And they had some other tough battles in January and February of, of 1966. And a lot of the, lot of my guys were still over there. So I felt guilty about not going back. But the army reassigned me to Ft. Benning once I recovered from - - I was kind of a walking wounded. My jaw was wired shut but I was okay physically except I couldn't, I couldn't eat too well until they -my jaw healed. So probably the middle of February of 66, I was released from Valley Forge army hospital in the Philadelphia area. And was reassigned to Ft. Benning. i went down there and they saw I was a bachelor and was Ranger qualified and it was kind of a hardship tour up on - well not for bachelors because they didn't have too - too many family housing areas up in the line, up in the mountain Ranger camp - - and so that's where I was reassigned. Which is a kind of a sub post of Ft. Benning. I was a Ranger instructor up there. And while I was up there - it was probably that summer I received a silver star. They - we went down to Florida, to one of the minor league baseball teams - - and they had a mass ceremony for other Vietnam veterans. And I received the silver star. And my company commander wrote me a letter and he said we're putting you in for a very high award. And so I received a very high award, the silver star. Which is the third highest award. I said that's a high award. And so - that's because they were still over there and I wasn't - in too much contact with them. And didn't know that they had put me in for the medal of honor. And they had written it up and forwarded it. It had been approved by the division and worked its way through the army. I received a phone call from a civilian reporter named Ed Himoff[?] who was doing an article for Saga magazine. And he interviewed me for a long time on the -on the telephone. And - and that's the first I heard that I was gonna be recommended for the medal. And as it got closer to the date, there was more traffic. And so - the ceremony was a month, a year and a month after I'd -after the action. And they sent, it was on the 19th of December 1966. On the - in the Pentagon. On the, it was an outside ceremony at the river entrance and they had the old guard there. And it was - and they sent a planeload of - of veterans from the battle down to Ft. Benning to bring them up. So a lot of my - a lot of my troops and officers were - were at the ceremony along with a lot of generals from the Pentagon and -and my family members. They sent a plane up to Pittsburgh to pick myself and my, my family members up. Cousins and aunts and uncles and mom and dad and sisters and so we flew down from Pittsburgh and were there for 3 days. This was early in the Vietnam war. I was the 7th recipient, the third army - the third living army recipient from Vietnam. So it was, even though it wasn't presented to me by the president, the secretary of the army presented it to me. His name was Stanley Rieser. And I met the chief of staff General Johnson, chief of public affairs who was a medal of honor recipient was there. Col. Nett who was a recipient who came up from Benning, World War II recipient were there. And so I met a lot of people that I had read about - never met. And so it was quite an awesome experience to see that many generals in one place at one time. And so that was, it was a very nice ceremony. A young lieutenant fresh out of Vietnam and fresh out of the mountains of north Georgia. I was kind of in shell shock. Like you can imagine being around that much - that much brass. The division commander was there. General Cunard. Keith Ware was the - who was the chief of public affairs of the army - he was a two star general, was a medal of honor recipient from World War II in the first infantry division. Went back to Vietnam and is one of the - one of the two division commanders to be killed in action. His helicopter crashed with him in it. And he perished. But he was a very - you know I have - a very, I have my picture taken with him in - so that I was very special. To meet him and to be in his presence.

Unknown interviewer:

Tell me - he obviously was one of the people you look up to now.

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

Yes. Sir. General Cunard, the division commander - later on I became his aide. But he - just - he's a legend in his own time. He told General McAuliffe[?] to say nuts in the battle of the bulge with the 101st. And he took the - - the first cav through all the testing and air assault - test phase and was the first division commander. And all these - these generals and colonels and non commissioned officers that were so famous to me as a young trooper and I was in awe of all of them. And -

Unknown interviewer:

How has the medal changed your life?

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

Some people say the medal is harder to - to wear than it is to earn. I've always been very humble and feel that I wear the medal for all those soldiers in the, the first cav that were there in that battle and other battles. I'm just the caretaker of the medal for them. I'm - they're as brave as I and there are a lot of brave things that go on in combat. That can't be recognized because of the heat of battle. Their valorous deeds may not be recognized and so combat is kind of a every war - every - everybody has their own individual war doing their own individual thing either as a - - as an individual or as a team and it is a team effort. And so I feel I'm - I wear the medal for - for all the men and women that -that served in the first cav division.

Unknown interviewer:

What does it mean to you?

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

That's a very tough question. The medal of honor is the, the highest medal to be awarded for heroic actions in combat. And probably most of my fellow medal of honor recipients will tell you the same thing. They, they -they're humble to be - to wear the medal and to be - to be awarded the medal. And it's - and there are so many valorous deeds that go on in combat that - that they all can't be recognized. So I'm no braver than many of my fellow soldiers. I'm just so grateful that they - that they authorize me to wear it for them. And so I, I feel a - somewhat of a, I have to uphold the medal for them. You know if I do something - if I get a ticket for speeding, it - it detracts from them I think to a certain extent. So you have, you have to be a cut above. You just can't - do, you can't be the same as you were before. You have to - you have to take care of your, your fellow soldiers and -and walk in their shoes too.

Unknown interviewer:

A lot of the recipients have said they have to live up to the medal. That's the way they put it - because they said although being a soldier was one thing and doing your duty is one thing, when you receive the medal, you have to live up to it. And I thought that was an interesting way to look at it. How would you rank it in terms of the milestones in your life?

Walter Joseph Marm, Jr.:

Probably number 2. Almost number one. I'm a very Christian religious person. I feel that - that's very very important. My - my -Christian beliefs probably are num - in terms of how I - how I get to heaven is very very important to me. And that - but having the medal of honor, you know - you have to be careful that, that you -you, you have to be humble because you can, you can be overwhelmed with all the, the activity and all the things that you do with the medal that you don't get a big head. And like I said, sometimes it's - some people have had a harder time wearing the medal than they did earn it. Some of our people have had some - some problems with, with the medal. And all the, the fanfare and the people put you on a pedestal. And that - that shouldn't be. We're no better - everybody is special in the eyes of God. And I think - God's not gonna put more in, in your - in your knapsack or your rucksack than you can carry. And, but sometimes you think you have a pretty heavy load. But - he, he gave me, he, he let me earn, let me be awarded the medal for - for a very special purpose. And I think you. [End of Interview]

 
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