SLAVE NARRATIVES A Folk History of Slavery in the United States From Interviews with Former Slaves TYPEWRITTEN RECORDS PREPARED BY THE FEDERAL WRITERS' PROJECT, 1936-1938 ASSEMBLED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS PROJECT WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SPONSORED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS Illustrated with Photographs WASHINGTON 1941 VOLUME II ARKANSAS NARRATIVES PART 1 Prepared by the Federal Writers1 Project of the Works Progress Administration for the State of Arkansas / Abbott, Silas Abernathy, Lucian Abromsom, Laura Adeline, Aunt Adway, Rose Aiken, Liddie Aldridge, Mattie Alexander, Amsy 0. Alexander, Diana Alexander, Fannie Alexander, Lucretia Allen, Ed Allison, Lucindy Ames, Josephine Anderson, Charles Anderson, Nancy Anderson, R. B. Anderson, Sarah Anderson, Selie Anderson, !• A. Anthony, Henry Arbery, Katie Armstrong, Campbell Armstrong, Cora Baccus, Lillie Badgett, Joseph Samuel Bailey, Jeff Baker, James Baltimore, William Banks, Mose Banner, Henry Barnett., John W. H. Barnett, Josephine Ann Barnett, Lizzie Barnett, Spencer Barr, Emma Barr, Robert Bass, Matilda Beal, Emmett Beard, Dina Beck, Annie Beckwith, J« R. Beel, Enoch Belle, Sophie D. Bellus, Cyrus Benford, Bob Bennet, Carrie Bradley Logan INFORMANTS 1 Benson, George 153 3 Bent on, Kato 155 8 Bert rand, James 157 11 Biggs, Alice 160 17 Billings, Mandy 162 19 Birch, Jane 164 22 Black, Beatrice 166 24 Blackwell, Boston 168 28 Blake, Henry 175 30 Blakeley, Adeline 180 32 Bobo, Vera Roy 194 40 Boechus, Liddie 195 41 Bond, Maggie (Bunny) 197 44 Bonds, Caroline 201 46 Boone, Rev. Frank T. 202 49 Boone, J. F. 210 53 Boone, Jonas 214 55 Bowdry, John 216 57 Boyd, Jack 218 60 Boyd, Mai 220 62 Braddox, George 223,226 64 Bradley, Edward 229 68 Bradley, Rachel 233 75 Brannon, Elizabeth 237 Brantley, Mack 241 Brass, Ellen 246 76 Bratton, Alice 249 78 Briles, Frank 251 84 Brooks, Mary Ann 253 91 Brooks, Waters 255 97 Brown, Casie Jones 267 101 Brown, Elcie 272 104 Brown, F. H. 275 107 Brown, George 281 109 Brown, J. N. 284 112 Brown, Lewis 286 ,288,289 115 Brown, Lewis 290 119 Brown, Mag 298 122 Brown, Mary 299 126 Brown, Mattie 301 127 Brown, Molly 303 129 Brown, Peter 311 131 Brown, William 315 132 Brown, William 317 135 Broyles, Maggie 324 137 Bryant, Ida 329 141 Buntin, Belle 330 146 Burgess, Jeff 334 Burkes, Norman 336 149 Burks, Sr., Will 338 Burris, Adeline 340 Byrd, E. L. 346 Butler, Jennie 342 Byrd, Emmett Augusta 347 ILLUSTRATIONS Old Slave Frontispiece 30468 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Silas Abbott R. P. D. Age 75 Brinkley, Ark. "I was born in Chickashaw County, Mississippi. Ely Abbott and Maggie Abbott was our owners. They had three girls and two . boys - Eddie and Johnny* We played together till I was grown. I loved em like if they was brothers. Papa and Mos Ely went to war together in a two-horse top buggy. They both come back when they got through. "There was eight of us children and none was sold, none give way. My parents name Peter and Mahaley Abbott. My father never was sold but ,my mother was sold into this Abbott family for a house girl. She cooked and washed and ironed. No!m, she wa3nft a wet nurse, but she tended to Eddie and Johnny and me /' all alike. She whoop them when they needed, and Miss Maggie whoop me. That the way we grow'd up. Mos Ely was 'ceptionly good I recken. Ho'm, I never heard of him drinkin* whiskey. They made cider and 'simmon beer every year. "Grandpa was a soldier in the war. He fought in a battle. I donrt know the battle. He wasnTt hurt. He come home and told us how awful it was. "My parents stayed on at Mos Ely»s and my uncle's family stayed on. He give my uncle a home and twenty acres of ground and my parents same mount to run a gin. I drove two mules, my brother drove two and we drove two more between us and run the a vj- C7 2. 2 gin. My auntie seen somebody go in the gin one night but didn't think bout them settin' it on fire. They had a torch, I recken, in there. All I knowed, it burned up and Mos Ely had to take our land back and sell it to pay for four or five hundred bales of cotton got burned up that time. We stayed on and sharecropped with him. We lived between Egypt and Okolona, Mississippi. Aberdeen was our tradin' point. "I come to Arkansas railroading. I railroaded forty years. Worked on the section, then I belong to the extra gang. I help build this railroad to Memphis. "I did own a home but I got in debt and had to sell it and let my money go. "Times is so changed and the young folks different. They won't work only nough to get by and they want you to give em all you got. They take it if they can. Nobody got time to work. I think times is worse than they ever been, cause folks hate to ' work so bad. I'm talking bout hard work, field work. Jobs young folks want is scarce; jobs they could get they don't want. They want to run about and fool around an get by. "I get $8.00 and provisions from the government." 30369 #727 Interviewer__________ latt McKinney______________ ill i ii ¦ ........¦ i .........¦ ¦ l in j ii ii "il............ii Person Interviewed Iatcian Abetraatay. Marvall. Arkansas Age 85 "I was borned in de 'streme aorf part of Mississippi nigh de Tennessee (¦- line* You nought say dat it was 'bout straddle of de state line and it / wasn't no great piece from where us llbed to Moscow what was de station on de ole Memfis en Charston Railroad* My white folks was de Abernathys* Ton neber do hear *bout many folks wid dat name these times, leastwise not ober in die state, but dere sure used to be heap of dea Abernathys back hone where I llbed and I spect dat mebbe some dere yit en cose it's bound to be some of the young uns lef * dar still, but de ole uns, Mars Luoh en dam, dey is all gone* "Mars Luch* he was my young boss* Though he name was Lucian us all called him Luch and dat was who I is named for* Ole mars, he was name Will and dat was Mars Luch's pa and my ole miss, she name Miss Cynthia and young miss, her name Miss Ellen* Ole mars an' ole miss, dey Just had de two chillun, Mars luch and Miss Ellen; dat is what libed to be grown* Mars Luch, he 'bout two year older dan me and Miss Ellen, she 'bout two year older dan Mars luch* Miss Ellen, she married er gentman from Virginny and went dar to lib and Mars Luch, he married Miss Fannie Keith* "Miss Iannis's folks, dey libed right nigh us on de »j'ining place and dem was my ole man's peoples* Yas sah, boss, dat ole man you see settin' right dar now in dat chere* She was Ella Keith, data zaekly what her named when us married and aha named far Miss Fannie's ma* Sat she was* 3. Us meher did leave our folkses eben atter de far ober and de niggers git dey freedom* yit an9 still a heap of de niggers did leave dey mars9 and a heap of dem didn9 an9 us stayed on en farmed de Ian9 jus1 like us been doin1 'eept dey gib us a contract for part de crop an9 sell us our grub f gainst us part of de crop and take dey money outen us part of de cotton in de fall just like de bizhess is done yit and I reckon dat sea de startin9 of de share crop dat is still goinv on* sQoon atter Mars Luch good and grown an1 Mm an9 Miss Fannie done married* ole mars and ole miss, dey bofe died and Mars luck say he gwine sell out an9 lebe 9 cause de Ian9 gittin9 so poor and wore out and it takin9 three anf more acres to make a bale and he tell us all dat when we wind up de crop dat fall and say, 9You boys mebbe can stay on wid whoever I sell out to er if not den you can fin9 you homes wid some one close if you wants to do dat«f And den he says dat he gwine fin9 him some good Ian9 mebbe in Arkansas down de riber from MemfIs* Mighty nigh all de ole famblys lef9 de place when Mars Luch sole it out* "My pappy and my mamay* day went to Memf is and me wid 9em# I was growed by den and was fixinf to marry ilia just es soon es I could fin9 a good home« I was a country nigger en liked de farm an9 en cose wasnf t satisfied in town, so 9twasn9t long 9fore I heered 9bout hanfs bee in9 needed down de riber In Mississippi and data where I went en stayed for two years and boss* I sure was struck wid dat Ian9 ahat you could mate a bale to a acre on an9 I just knowed dat I was gwine git rich in a hurry an9 so I writ er letter to Blla en her peoples tell in1 dem 9bout de rich Ian9 and 'vising dem to come down dere where I was and I was want in9 to marry Ilia dem* Boss* and you know what, 9twasn9t long afore I gits er letter back an9 de letter says dat Blla an9 her peoples is doan de riber in Arkansas from Msmfis at BLedeoe wld Mars Inch aa9 Hiss Banal* where Mars Iaieh had done moved aim aa' Uisa Fannie to a big plantation day had hornet down flora* "Bat was a funny thing now dat happaaad aa* SLedsoe, it waa right 'cross da riber from where I was aa had been for two years an* just soon as I git dat letter I 'range aid a nigger to take ma 'cross de riber in er skift to da plaatatioa where day all waa aad 'bout fast folkses dat I aea ia Ella aa* her peoples aa lota of da famblys from da ola home place back ia Tennessee aa* I aura was proud to aae Mars Lash aa Hiss Fannie* Say had built dam* selres a fiaa house at a p'iat dat waa sorter like a knoll where da water don' git whan da riber coma out oa da laa* ia case of oberflow aad up de rode 'bout half mile from he house* Mara Inch had da store en da gia* Dey had de boys den, dat ia Mara Xmeh aad Miss Fannie did, aad de soya was named Claude an* Clarence attar Miss Female* a two bruddera* "Dam was da finest boys dat oae eter did see* At dat time Claude, he 'bout two year old aad Clarence, he 'bout four er mabbe little less* Ilia, she worked ia de house eookiag for Kiss Fannie aa* auasla* de ehillua aad aha plumb erasy *bout de ehillua an* dey juat as satisfied wld her as dey was wid dare mama aad Ella thought more dam ehillua daa aha did anybody* She Just crazy 'bout dam boys* Mara Lach, he gibe me job right 'way sort flunkying for him aad hostliag at de lot aa* barn and 'twaan't long daa 'fore Ella aad ma, ua git married an* libs ia a cabin dat Mars Lach had built ia de back of de big house* "Us git 'long fine for more daa a year aad Mars lach, he raise plenty cotton aa* at times us ud take trip up to Mamfis oa de boat, oa de Phil Allia what was *bout de fine let boat on de riber ia dam daya aad de oae dat most frequent put ia at us landia* wid de freight for Mara Luoh aad dea he most giaally seat he aettea aa' seed to Mamfis oa die same Phil Allia* 6 "I jus* said, boss* dat us git 'long fine for more dan a year and us all mighty happy till Hiss Fannie took siek an9 died an* it mighty nigh killed Mars Luch and all of us and Mars Luch, he jus* droop for weeks till us git anxious *bout him but atter tfliile he git better and seem like mehhe he gwine git ober he sadness but he neber mis like he used to be afore Miss Fannie died* * Atter Miss Fannie gone, Mars Luch, he say, *XUa, you an* Luch ma* mobe in de big house an* make you a bed in de room where de boys sleep* so*s you can look atter *em good, * cause lots nights I gwine be out late at de gin an* store an* I knows you gwine take plumb good care of dem ehillun#* An* so us fixed us bed in de big house an* de boys, day sleeped right dar in dat room on dere bed where us could take eare of fam* *Dat went on for *bout two years an* den Mars Luch, he *gun to get in bad health an* jus* wasted down like and den one night when he at de store he took down bad and day laid him down on de bed in de back room where he would sleep on sich nights dat he didn* come hems when he was so busy an* he soxrt a nigger on a mule for me to come up dar en* I went In he room an* Mars Luch, he say, *Lissen, Luch, you is been a good faithful nigger an* Ilia too, an* I is gonna die tonight and Z wants you to send er letter to Miss Kllen in Virginny atter I is daid en tell her to come an* git de boys f cause she is all de kin peoples dat day habe lef * now cepn coae you en* Ilia an* it mougjht be some time afore she gits here so you all take good en faithful care dem till she f rives an* tell her she habe to see dat all de bizness wind up and take de boys back wid her an* keep dem till day is growed#f •fella boss, us done jus* like Mars Luch tell us to do an* us sure feel sorry for dam two little boys* Day jus* *bout five an* seben year old den end day sure loved dere pa; day was plumb crazy *bout Mars Luch and him *bout dam too* • 'Bout two weeks from time dat Hers Imeh daid, Kiss KUen cone on de boat one night an* she stayed soae days windia1 up de blsness and den she lef* an1 take de boys 'way wid her back to Ylrginny where she llbed* Ua sure did hate to 'part from dem enillun* Dat,s seen nigh on to sixty years ago but us neber f orgit dem boys an* us will allus lobe dem* Dey used to sen* us presents an* sieh every Christmas for seberal years and den us started movin' ,bout an' X reckon dey don' know where we*s at now* I sure would like to see dem boys ag'ln* I beteha I'd know dem right today* Mebbe I wouldn't, it's been so long sines I seen 'em| but shucks, I know dat dey would know me*" •30395 #6B5 ! 8 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Laura Abromsoau B*g*P** Holly Grove* Arkansas Receives mail at Clarendon* Arkansas Age 74 *My mama was named Elolse Rogers* She was born in Missouri* She was sold and brought to three or four miles from Brownsville, Tennessee* Alex Rogers bought her and my papa* She had been a house girl and well cared for* She never got in contact wid her folks no more after she was sold* She was a dark woman* Papa was a ginger cake colored man* Mama talked like Alex Rogers had four or five hundred acres of land and lots of niggers to work it* She said he had a cotton factory at Brownsville* "Mistress Barbara Ann was his wife* They had two boys and three girls* One boy George went plumb crazy and outlived fem all* The other boy died early* Alex Rogers got my papa in Richmond. Virginia. He was took outer a gang* We had a big family* I have eight sisters and op& brother* *Pa say they strop fem down at the carriage house and give fem five hundred lashes* He say they have salt and black pepper mixed up in er old bucket and put it all on flesh cut up with a rag tied on a stick (mop)* Alex Rogers had a nigger to put it on the place they looped* The lord puts up wid such wrong doings and den he comes and rectifies it* He does that very way* *Pa say they started to whoop him at the gin house* He was a sorter favorite* He cut up about it* That didnft make no difference 9bout it* Somehow they scared him up but he didn't git whooped thater time* "They fed good on Alex Rogers9 place* They'd buy a barrel of coffee, a barrel molasses, a barrel sugar* Some great big barrels* 2* "Alex Rogers wasn't a good man* He* 4 tell them to steal a hog and git home wid it* If they ketch you over there theyf 11 whoop you« Hefd help v eat hogs theyfd steal* "One time papa was working on the roads* The neighbor man and road man was fixing up their eating* He purty nigh starved on that road work* He was hired out* "Mama and papa spoke like they was mighty glad to get sat free* Some believed theyfd git freedom and others didn't* They had places they met and prayed for freedom* They stole out in some of their houses and turned a waahpot down at the door* Another white man, not Alex Rogers f tole mtw* and papa and a heap others out in the field working* She say they quit and had a regular bawl in the field* They cried and laughed and hollered and danced* Lot of them run of fen the place soon as the man tole Yem* My folks stayed that year and another year* "What is I been doing? Ast me is I been doing? lhat ainvt I been doing be more like it* I raised fifteen of my own children* I got four living* I living wid one right here in dis house wid me now* I worked on the farm purty nigh all my life* I come to dis place** Wild, honey, it was! I come in 1901* Heap of changes since then* •Present times~«Not as much union 'mongst young black and white as the old black and white* They growing apart* Nobody got nothinf to give* Ho work* I used to could buy second~handed clothes to do my little children a year for a little or no thin1 * Wonft sell fem now nor give fem fway neither* They don't work hard as they used to* They say they donft git nothinf outen it* They donft want to work* Times harder in winter f cause it cold and things to eat killed out* I cans meat* We dry beef* In town this Nickel- lodian playing wild wid young colored folks—these Sea Bird music boxes* 9 3* They play all kind things* Folks used to stay home Saturday nights* Too much running f round, excitement t wickedness in the world now* This genera* tion is worst one* They trying to cut the Big Apple dance nhen we old folks used to be down singing and praying* f Cause die is a wicked age times is bad and hard** 10 .. --¦ '••"'..... " ./¦•-"" *** (** . Interviewer fs /gfciaaent /•—.__.. \ Ifadatto, cle^r-tfffcelligent* 30380 Interviewer Mrs* Zillah Grose Peel ______ Person interviewed »Aant Adeline*______— Age 89 Home 101 Hock Street* ffayetteville. Arkansas *I was born a slave about 1848, in Hickmon County, Tennessee,* said Aunt Adeline who lives as care taker in a house at 101 Rock Street, Jaystteville, Arkansas, which ia owned by the ELakely-Budgens estate. Aunt Adeline has been a slave and a servant in five genera- tions of the Parks family* Her mother, Liza, with a group of five Negroes, was sold into slavery to John P. A* Parks, in Tennessee, about 1840. '•When my mother1 s master came to Arkansas about 1849 $ looking for a country residence, he bought what was known as the old Kidd place on the Old Wire Road, -which was one of the Stage Cocfeh stops. I was about one year old when we came* We had a big house and many times passengers would stay several days and wait for the next stage to come by. It was then that I earned my first money. I must have been about six or seven years old. One of Mr* Parks1 daughters was about one and a half years older than I was* We had a play house back of the fire- place chimney* We didnft have many toys; maybe a doll made of a corn cob, with a dress made from scraps and a head made from a roll of scraps. We were playing church. Miss Fannie was the preacher and I was the audience. We were singing "Jesus my all to Heaven is gone*11 £. 12 Ihen we were half way through with our song we discovered that the passengers from the stage coach had stopped to listen# We were so frightened at our audience that we both ran* But we were coaxed to come back for a dime and sing our song over* I remember that Miss Fannie used a big leaf for a books "I had always been told from the time I was a small child that I was a Negro of African stock* That it was no disgrace to be a Negro and had it not been for the white folks who brought us over here from Africa as slaves, we would never have been here and would have been much better off* "We colored folks were not allowed to be taught to read or write* It was against the law* My master's folks always treated me well* I had good clothes* Sometimes I was whipped for things I should not have done just as the white children were* nWhen a young girl was married her parents would always give her a slave* I was given by my master to his daughter. Miss Elizabeth* who married Mr* HLakely* I was just five years old* She moved into a new home at Fayetteville and I was taken along but she soon sent me back home to my master telling him that I was too little and not enough help to her* So I went back to the Parks home and stayed until I was over seven years old* *My master made a bill of sale for me to his daughter, in order to keep account of all settlements, so when he died and the estate settled each child would know how he stood* *Ehla statement can be verified by the will made by John P* A* Parks, and filed in Probate Court in the clerk's office in Washington County* 3. "I was about 15 years old when the Civil War ended and was still living with Mrs* ELakely and helped care for her little children* Her daughterf Miss Lsnora, later married H* M« Hudgens, and I then went to live with her and cared for her children* When her daughter Hiss Helen married Professor Wiggins, I took care of her little daughter, and this made five generations that I have cared for* "During the Civil War, Mr* Parks took all his slaves and all of his fine stock, horses and cattle and went South to Louisiana follow- ing the Southern army for protection* Many slave owners left the county taking with them their slaves and followed the army* "When the war was over, Mr. Barks was still in the South and gave to each one of his slaves who did not want to come back to Arkansas so much money* My uncle George came back with Mr* Parks and was given a good mountain farm of forty acres, which he put in cultivation and one of my uncle's descendents still lives on the place* My mother did not return to Arkansas but went on to Joplin, Missouri, ajid for more than fifty years, neither one of us knew where the other one was until one day a man from Ifeyetteville went into a restaurant in Joplin and ordered his breakfast, and my mother who was in there heard him say he lived in Fayetteville, Arkansas* He lived just below the Hudgens home and when my mother enquired about the family he told her I was still alive and was with the family* While neither of us could read nor write we cor- responded through different people* But I never saw her after I was eleven years old* Later Mr* Hudgens went to Joplin to see if she was well taken care of* She owned her own little place and when she died there was enough money for her to be buried* 4, "Civil War days are vivid to me* The Courthouse which was then In the middle of the Square was burned one night by a erasy Confed- erate soldier* The old men in the town saved him and then put him in the county jail to keep him from burning other houses * Each family was to take food to him and they furnished bedding. The morning I was to take his breakfastf he had ripped open his feather bed and crawled inside to get warm* The room was so full of feathers when I got there that his food nearly choked him* I had carried him ham, hot biscuits and a pot of coffee* "After the War many soldiers came to my mistress, Mrs* Blakely, trying to make her free me* I told them I was free but I did not want to go anywhere, that I wanted to stay in the only home that I had ever known* In a way that placed me in a wrong attitude* I was pointed out as different* Sometimes I was threatened for not leaving but I stayed on* "I had always been well treated by my master1s folks* While we lived at the old Kidd place, there was a church a few miles from our home* My uncle George was coachman and drove my masters family in great splendor in a fine barouche to church* After the war, when he went to his own place, Mr* Parks gave him the old carriage and bought a new one for the family* "I can remember the days of slavery as happy ones* We always had an abundance of food* Old Aunt Martha cooked and there was always plenty prepared for all the white folks as well as the colored folks* There was a long table at the end of the big kitchen for the colored folks* The vegetables were all prepared of an evening by Aunt Martha with someone to help her* 5. «8|y mother seemed to have a gift of telling fortunes* She had a brass ring about the size of a dollar with a handwoven knotted string that she used* I remember that she told many of the young people in the neighborhood many strange things* They would come to her with their premonitions* *Yesf we were afraid of the patyroles* All colored folks were* They said that any Negroes that were caught away from their master* a premises without a permit would be whipped by the patyroles* They used to sing a song: 'Run nigger run9 The patyroles Will get you.f "Yes'm, the War separated lots of families* Mr* Parks' son, John C* Parks9 enlisted in Colonel W. H. Brooks9 regiment at Fayetteville as third lieutenant* Mr. Jim Parks was killed at the Battle of Getys- burg. *I do remember it was my mistress, Mrs* Blakely, who kept the Masonic Building from being burned* The soldiers came to set it on fire* Mrs* Blakely knew that if it burned, our home would burn as it was just across the street* Mrs* Blakely had two small children who were very ill in upstairs rooms. She told the soldiers if they burned the Masonic Building that her house would burn and she would be unable to save her little children* They went away*" While Aunt Adeline is nearlng ninety, she is still active* goes shopping and also tends to the many crepe myrtle bushes as well as many other flowers at the Hudgens place* 15 •• 16 She attends to the renting of the apartment house, as caretaker, and is taken care of by members of the Blakely-Hudgens families* Aunt Adeline talks "white folks language,* as they say, and seldom associates with the colored people of the town* 1 ¦* 17 Interviewer Mrs, Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Hose Adway - 405 W* Pullen, Pine Bluff, Arkansas AgB 76 "I was born three years *fore surrender. That's what my people told me* Born in Mississippi» Let me see what county I come out of* Staiith County—thatfs where I was bred and born* "I know I seen the Yankees but I didn't know what they was© My mama and papa and all of fem talked about the War* ••My papa was a water toter in durinf the War* No, he didn't serve the army—just on the farm* "Mama was the cook for her missis in slavery times* "I think my folks went off after freedom and then come back* That was after they had done been sot free* I can remember dat all right* "I registered down here at the Welfare and I had tOygit my license from Mississippi and I didn't remember which courthouse I got my licenset but I sont letters over there till I got it up* I got all my papers now, but I ain't never got no pension* *I been through so much I can't git much in my remembrance, but I was here—that ain't no joke—-I been here* "My folks said their owners was all right* Tou know they was 'cause they come back* I remember dat all right* ¦•I been faxmin' till I got disabled* After I married I went to farminf • And I birthed fourteen head of chillun by dat one man! Fourteen head by dat one man I Stayed at home and took care of 'em till I got 'em up some size, too* All dead but five out of the fourteen head* 3. 18 *My missisf name was Miss Catherine and her husband named Abe Carr# "I went to school a little bit—mighty little* I could read but I never could write» "And I'm about to go blind in my old age* I need help and I need it bad* Chillun ain't able to help me none fcept give me a little bread and give me some medicine once in a while# Bat Ifm thanlcful to the Lord I can get outdoors* "I donft know ishat to think of this young race* That baby there knows more than I do now, nearly» Back there when I was born, I didn't know nothin1* "I know they said it was bad luck to bring a hoe or a ax in the house on your shoulder* I heard the old folks tell dat—sure did* "And I was told dat on old Christmas night the cows gets down on their knees and gives thanks to the Lord* "I 'member one song: fI am climbin' Jacob's ladder I am climbin' Jacob's ladder I am climbin' Jaoob's ladder For the work.is almost done* 'Every round goes higher and higher Every round goes higher and higher Every round goes higher and higher For my work is almost done* 'Sisterf now don't you get worried Sister, now don't you get worried Sister, now don't you get worried For the work is almost done*1 My mother used to sing dat when she was spinnin' and cardln'* They'd spin and dye the thread with some kind of indigo* Oh, I 'member dat all right** 30825 Interviewer Miss Irene Hobertson Person interviewed Liddie Aiken» Wheatley, Arkansas Age 63 *My mother was bom in southwest Georgia close to the Alabama line* Her mother come from Virginia. She was sold with her mother and two little brothers. Her mother had been sold and come in a wagon to southwest Georgia. They was all field hands. They cleaned out new ground. They was afraid of hoop-snakes. She said they look like a hoop rolling and whatever they stuck a horn or their tail in it died# They killed trees. "Mama said she druther plough than chop. She was a big woman and they let her plough right along by her two little brothers, Henry and Will Keller. Will et so many sweet potatoes they called him fTater Keller.* After he got grown we come out here* Polks called him fTate Keller.1 Henry died. I recollect Uncle Tate. "I was born close to Mobile, Alabama. Mama was named Sarah Keller. Grandma was called Mariah. Bfenks Tillman sold4her the first time* Bill Keller bought them all the last time. His wife was named Ada Keller. They had a great big family but I forgot what they said about them* Mack clem up in a persimmon tree one day and the old man hollered at him, fGet out of that tree ffore you fall.* fBout then the boy turned 'loose and fell* It knocked the breath out hinw It didn't kill him. Three or four of Miss Adafs children died with corniestive chills. Mama said the reason they had them chills they played down at the gin pond all the time. It was shady and a pretty place and they was allowed to play in the pond. Three or four of them died nearly in a heap* 2. *Gne of the boys had a pet billy-goat* It got up on top mama's house one time* It would bleat and look down at them* They was afraid it would jump down on them if they went out* It chewed up things Aunt Beanie washed* She had thsm put out on bushes and might had a line too* They fattened it and killed it* Mama said Mr. Bill Keller never had nothing too good to divide with his niggers* I reckon by that they got some of the goat* "They lived like we live now* Svery family done his own cooking* I donft know how many families lived on the place* *I know about the Yankees* They come by and every one of the men and boys went with them but Uncle Cal. He was cripple and they advised him not to start* Didn't none of the women go. Mama said she never seen but one ever come back* She thought they got killed or went on some place else* ••Mr* Keller died and Miss Ada went back to her folks* They left everything in our care that they didn't move* She took all her house things* They sold or took all their stock* They left us a few cows and pigs* I don't know how long they stayed after the old man died* His children was young; he might not been so old* WI recollect grandma* She smoked a pipe nearly all the time* My papa was a livery stable man. He was a fine man with stock* He was a little black man. Mama was too big* Grandma was taller but she was slick black* He lived at Mobile, Alabama* I was the onliest child mama had* Uncle 'Tate Keller * took grandma and mama to Mobile* He never went to the War* He was a good carpenter and he worked out when he didn't have a lot to do in the field* He was off at work when all the black men and boys left Mr* Bill* He never went back after they left till freedom* "They didn't know vflien freedom took place. They was all scattering for two years about to get work and something to eat* 3. Tate come and got them* They went off in a wagon that Tate made for his master, Bill Keller* We come to Tupelo, Mississippi from Mobile when I was a little bit of a girl* Then we made one crop and come to Helena* Uncle Tate died there and mama died at Crocketts Bluff* My papa died back in Mobile, Alabama* He was breaking a young horse and got throwed up side a tree* He didnft live long then* "I got three boys now and I had seben—all boys* They farms and do public work* Tom is in Memphis* Pete is in Helena and I live wid Macon between here (Wheatley) and Cotton Plant* We farm* I done everything could be thought of on a farm* I ploughed some less than five year ago* I liked to plough* My boy ploughs all he can now and we do the chopping* We all pick cotton and get in the corn* We work day laborers now* "If I was young the times wouldnf t .stand in my way* I could make it* I donft know what is the trouble lessen some wants too much* They canft get it* We has a living and thankful for it* I never fplied for no help yet* *I still knits my winter stockings* I got knitting needles and cards my own mother had and used* I got use for them* I wears clothes on my body in cold weather* One reason you young folks ainft no fcount you donft wear enough clothes when it is cold* I wear flannel clothes if I can got holt of them* "Education done mint the world* I learnt to read a little* I never went to school. I learnt to work* I learnt my boys to go with me to the field and not to be ashamed to sweat* Itfs healthy* They all works*11 30425 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson 22 Person Interviewed Mattle Aldridge Age 60? Hazen, Arkansas "My mother's old owner named Master Sanders. She horn somewhere in Tennessee. I heard her say she lived in Mississippi. I was born in Tennessee. My pa was born in Mississippi. I know he belong to the Duncans. His name George Washington Duncan. There ain't nary drap white blood in none us. I got four broth- ers. I do remembers grandma. She set and tell us tales bout old times like you want to know. Been so long I forgotten. Ma was a house girl and pa a field hand. Way grandma talked it must of been hard to find out what white folks wanted em to do, cause she couldn't tell what you say some times. She never did talk plain. "They was glad when freedom declared. They said they was hard on em. Whoop em. Pa was killed-in Crittenden County in Arkansas. He was clearin' new ground. A storm come up and a limb hit him. It killed him. Grandma and ma allus say like if you build a house you want to put all the winders in you ever goin' to want. It bad luck to cut in and put in nother one. Sign of a death. I ain't got no business tellin' you bout that. White folks don't believe in signs. "I been raisin* up childern - !dopted childern, washin1, ironin1, scourin', hoein', gatherin' corn, pickin1 cotton, patchin', cookin1. They ain't nothin' what I ain't done. 2. nNo'm, I sure ain't voted* I don't believe in women votin'* They don't know who to vote for* The men don't know neither* If folks visited they would care more bout the other an wouldn't be so much devilment goin' on*w 23 30668 #767 Interviewer ____ Samuel S. Taylor Person Interviewed Amsy 0* Alexander 2422 Canter Street, Little RocJcf Arkansas Age 74 . L fJ +4>i ,/* « **s *HA Jf ¦ \ ~4 ..¦ £0881 fak*«*«rt FOLKLORE SUBJECTS L-t-'-t*- Nams of Interviewer_________Pernolla Andsrson______________________ Sub j eot Early Days in, Caledonia » Barly days in El Dorads Ah wus bofn ds first ytar niggsrs wux free* Wuz. born in Cals~ donia at ds Priam place 0 Mah ma belonged tuh George Thompson* After mah ma died ah stayed wid de Wommacks, a while. Aftuh dat mah pa taken me home. Pa's nams mxz Jesse KLusur* Ah worked lak er slave* Ah out. woody sawed logs* picked 400 pounds uv cotton svah day* Ah spsck ah married de first tims ah wus about fofteen years ole* Ah been mahrM three times* All mah hutbandrs is daid» 01s man England and ols man Cullens run business places and ols man Wesley* His nams wuz reason Wcoley* Ds Wbalies got cemetery uv dey own right dar near de Csbb place* No body is buried in dar but ds fambly uv Woo leys* Ole man Allen Hale* he run er etors dar tee* Hs is yet livin right dar* He is rsal ele* De ols W&rrek Mitchell place whar ah use tuh livs is Guvment land* Warren Mitchell, he homestsadsd the place* We lived dar and made good crops* De purtiest dar wus eround, but not hitfs growed up* Don lived dar and made good crops* Ds purtiest dar wux eround* Dar is whah all mah chillun wuz beYn* Ah use tuh take mah baby an walk tuh SI Derado to ssvics* Ah use tuh come tuh SI Dorado wid a oman by ds nams of Sue Festsr* Nothin but weods whsn dsy laid de'tailroad heah* Dey built dem widh hc3*ss and exes* Ah saw em when dey whoep de hossss and ozen till dey fall out working dem when dey laid dat stsel* Ah wus at de first buryin uv ds fust pus son buried in Caledonia graveyard* Huh name wus Joe Ann Pelk* We sot up wid huh all night and sing and pray* An whsn ws got nearly tuh de church de bells itarted tolling and de folks startsd tuh singin* -2- TShen evah any body died dey ring bells tuh let yo know some body wus da id* A wus born on Christmas day, an ah had two chilluns born on Christmas Day* Dey wus twins and one ut em had twe teeth and his hair hung down on her shoulders when hit wus born but hit did not live but er wek« H ame Josephine Ames Occupation______Domestic Resident Ferdville Age not Riven* 45 ¦ oU<, UU4 KJ& 46 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed______Charles Anderson, Helena# Arkansas Age 77 or 78 ^ not sure •I was born in Bloomfield, Kentucky* My parents had the same owners* Mary and Elgin Anderson was their names* They was owned by Isaac Stone* Davis Stone was their son* They belong to the Stones as far back as they could remember* Mama was darker than I am. My father was brighter than I am. He likely had a white father* I never inquired* Mama had colored parents* Master Stone walked with a big crooked stick* He nor his son never went to war* Masters in that country never went* Two soldiers were drafted off our place* I saw the soldiers, plenty of them and plenty times< There never was no serious happenings* "The Federal soldierd would come by, sleep in the yard, take our best horses and leave the broken down ones* Very little money was handled* I never seen much* Master Stone would give us money like he give money to Davis* They prized fine stock mostly* They needed money at wheat harvest time only* When a celebration or circus come through he give us all twenty- five or thirty cents and told us to go. There wasn't many slaves up there like down in this country* The owners from all Ifve heard was crueler and sold them off oftener here* "Weaving was a thing the women prided in doing—being a fast weaver or a fine hand at weaving* They wove pretty coverlets for the beds* I see colored spreads now makes me think about my baby days in Kentucky* 2. 47 "Freedom was something mysterious* Colored felks didn't talk it* White folks didn't talk it* The first I realized something differentf Master Stone was going to whip a older brother* He told mama something I was too small to know* She said, 'Don't leave this year, son* I'm going to leave*f Master didn't whip him* "Master Stone's cousin kept house for him* I remember her well* They were all very nice to us always* He had a large farm* He had twenty servants in his yard* We all lived there close together* My sister and mama cooked* We had plenty to eat* We had beef in spring and summer* Mutton and kid on special occasions* We had hog in the fall and winter* We had geese, ducks, and chickens* We had them when we needed them* We had a field garden* He raised corn, wheat, oats, rye, and tobacco* "Once a year we got dressed up* We got shirts, a suit, pants and shoes, and what else we needed to wear* Then he told them to take care of their clothes* They got plenty to do a year* We didn't have fine clothed no time* We didn't eat ham and chicken* I never seen biscuit—only some- times* "I seen a woman sold* They had on her a short dress, no sleeves, so they could see her muscles, I reckon* They would buy them and put them with good healthy men to raise young slaves* I heard that* I was very small when I seen that young woman sold and years later I heard that was what was done* "I don't know when freedom come on* I never did know* We was five or six years breaking up* Master Stone never forced any of us to leave* He give some of them a horse when they left* I cried a year to go back* It was a dear place to me and the memories linger with me every day* 48 •There was no secret society or order of fix KLux in reach of us as I ever heard* •I voted Republican ticket* We would go to Jackson to vote* There would be a crowd* The last I voted was for Theodore Roosevelt* I voted here in Helena for years* I was on the petit Jury for several years here in Helena* * I fanned in your state some (Arkansas) • I farmed all my young life* I been in Arkansas sixty years* I come here February 1879 with distant relatives* They come south* When I come to Helena there was but one set of mechanics* m I started to work* I learned to paint and hang wall paper* Ifve worked in nearly every house in Helena* "The present times are gloomy. I tried to prepare for old age* I had a apartment house and lost it* I owned a home and lost it* They foreclosed me out* *The present generation is not doing as well as I have* "My health knocked me out* My limbs swell, they are stiff* I have a bad bladder trouble* •I asked for help but never have got none* If I could got a little relief I never would lost my house* They work my wife to death keeping us from starving* She sewed till they cut off all but white ladies* When she got sixty-five they let her go and she got a little Job cooking* They never give us no relief •* 80129 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson_________ Person interviewed Nancy Anderson_________ Street H, West Memphis, Arkansas Age 66 "I was born at Sanitobia, Mississippi. Mother died when I was a child* I was three months old, they said, when I lost her* F&ther lived to be very old* My mother was Ella Geeter and my stepmother was Lucy Evans* My father1 s name was Si Hubbard. My parents married after the War* I remembers Grandma Harriett Hubbard. She said she was sold* She was a cook and she raised my papa up with white folks. Her children was sold with her* Papa was sold too at the same time. Papa fired a steam gin* They ground corn and ginned cotton* *I stayed with Sam Hallfs family. She was good to me* I had a small bed by the fireplace* She kept me with two of her own children* Some of the girls and boys I was raised up with live at Sanitofeia now and have fine homes* When we would be playing they would take all the toys from me* Miss Fannie would say, 'Poor Nancy ainft got no toys.1 Then they would put them on the floor and we would all play. They had a little table. We all eat at it* We had our own plates. We all eat out of tin plates and had tin cups* "They couldn't keep me at home when papa married* I slipped off across the pasture* There was cows and hogs in there all the time* I wasnft afraid of them* I would get behind Miss Fannie and hide in her dress tail when they come after me. They let me stay most of the time for about five years. Sam Hall was good to my father and Miss Fannie about raised me after my mother died* She made me mind but she was good to me* 2* "Grandma lived with papa* She was part Indian. As long as papa lived he share cropped and ginned. He worked as long as he was able to hit a lick* He died four miles east out from Sanitobia on Mr. Hayshaws place* What I told you is what I know. He said he was sold that one time* Bibbards had plenty to eat and wear. He was a boy and they didn't want to stunt the children. Papa was a water boy and filed the hoes for the chopping hands* He carried a file along with them hoeing and would sharpen their hoes and fetch fem water in their juga. Aunt Sallie, his sister, took keer of the children* "Papa went to the War. He could blow his bugle and give all the war signals. He got the military training. Him and his friend Charlie Grim used to step around and show us how they had to march to orders* His bugle had four joints. I donft know what went with it. From what they said they didn9t like the War and was so glad to get home* "Between the big farms they had worm fences (rail fences) and gates* You had to get a pass from your master to go visiting. The gates had big chains and locks on them. Some places was tollgates where they traveled over some manYs land to town* On them roads the man owned the place charged. He kept some boy to open and shut the gate* They said the gates was tall* "Some of the slaves that had hard masters run off and stay in the woods* They had nigger dogs and would run them—catch fem. He said one man (Negro) was hollowing down back of the worn fence close to where they was working* They all run to him* A great long coachwhip snake was wrapped f round him, his arms and allf and whooping him with Its tail* It cut gashes like a knife and the blood poured* The overseer cut 3. 51 the snake fs head off with his big knife and they carried him home bleeding* His master didn't whoop him* said he had no business off in the woods* He had run off* His master rubbed salt in the gashes* It nearly killed him* It burnt him so bad* That stopped the blood* They said sut (soot) would stopped the blood but it would left black mark* The salt left white marks on him* The salt helped kill the pison (poison). Some masters and over- seers was cruel* When they was so bad marked they didn't bring a good price* They thought they was hard to handle. *£unt Jane Peterson, old friend of mine, come to visit me nearly every year after she got so old* She told me things took place in slavery times* She was in Virginia till after freedom* She had two girls and a boy with a white daddy* She told me all about how that come* She said no chance to run off or ever get off, you had to stay and take what come. She never got to marry till after freedom* Then she had three more black children by her husband* She said she was the cook. Old master say, f Jane, go to the lot and get the eggs** She was scared to go and scared not to go. He'd beat her out there, put her head between the slip gap where they let the hogs into the pasture from the lot down back of the barn. She say, 'Old missis whip me. This ain't right.' Hefd laugh. Said she bore three of his children in a room in the same house his family lived in* She lived in the same house* She had a room so as she could build fires and cook break- fast by four o'clock sometimes, she said* She was so glad freedom come on and soon as she heard it she took her children and was gone, she said. She had no use for him* She was scared to death of him. She learned to pray and prayed for freedom. She died in Cold Water, Mississippi. She was so glad freedom come on before her children come on old enough to sell* 4. 52 Part white children sold for more than black children. They used them for house girls. *I donft know Ku KLux stories enough to tell one. These old tales leave my mind. Ifm 66 and all that was before my time. "Times is strange—hard, too. Bat the way I have heard they had to work and do and go I hardly ever do grumble. Ifve heard so much. I got children and I do the best I can by them. That is all I can do or say.* 30689 53 Interviewer Samuel S+ Tfeylor Person interviewed R* B* Anderson Route 4f Box 68 (near Granite) Ags 76 Little Rock, Arkansas .........£T-h* ^7r&^*Pz jS/h^^Jl^^...... "I was born in Little Rock along about Seventeenth and Arch Streets* There was a big plantation there then* Br* Wright owned the plantation* He owned my mother and father* Bfy father and mother told me that I was born in 1862* They didnft know the date exactly, so I put it the last day in the year and call it December 30, 1862* "My father1 s name was William Anderson* He didnft go to the War because he was blind* He was ignorant too* He was colored* He was a pretty good old man when he died* "MSy mother1 s name was Minerva Anderson* She was three-fourths Indian* hair way down to her waist* I was in Hot Springs blacking boots when my mother died* I was only about eight or ten years old then* I always regretted I wasnft able to do anything for my mother before she died* I donft know to what tribe her people belonged* "Br* Wright was awful good to his slaves* "I donft know just how freedom came to xay folks* I never heard my father say. They were set free, I know* They were set free when the War ended* They never bought their freedom* "We lived on Tenth and near to Center in a one-room log house* That is the earliest thing I remember* When they moved from there* ay father had accumulated enough to buy a home* He bought it at Seventh and Broadway* He paid cash for it--five hundred and fifty dollars* 2 54 That is where we all lived until it was sold. I couldn't name the date of the sale but it was sold for good money—about three thousand eight hundred dollars, or maybe around four thousand. I was a young man then. "I remember the Brooks-Baxter War. "I remember the King White fooled a lot of niggers and armed them and brought them up here. The niggers and Republicans here fought them and run them back where they come from. "I know Hot Springs when the main street was a creek. I can't remember when I first went there. The government bath-house was called 'Ral Hole', because it was mostly people with bad diseases that went there. "After the War, my father worked for a rich man named Hunter. He was yardman and took care of the horse. My mother was living then. "Scipio Jones and I were boys together. We slept on pool tables many a time when we didn't have no other place to sleep. He was poor when he was a boy and glad to get hold of a dime, or a nickel. He and I don't speak today because he robbed me. I had a third interest in my place. I gave him money to buy my place in for me. It was up for sale and I wanted to get posses- sion. He gave me some papers to sign and when I found out what was happening, he had all my property. My wife kept me from killing him." Interviewer's Comment Occupation: Grocer, bartender, porter, general work 3/ i?r -o o Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person Interviewed Sarah Anderson_____________ 3815 W. Second Avenue, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 78? "I don't know when I was born* When the Civil War ended, I was bout four or five years old* "I jes9 remember when the people coxae back—the soldiers--when the War ended* We chillun run under the house* That was the Yankees* *I was born in Bibb County, Georgia* That9a where I was bred and born* "I been in Arkansas ever since I was fourteen* That was shortly after the Civil War, I reckon* We come here when they was emigratin9 to Arkansas* I9m tell in* you the truth, I been here a long time* *I member when the soldiers went by and we chillun run under the house* It was the Yankee cavalry, and they made so much noise* Datvs what the old folks told us. I member dat we run under the house and called our self hiding Tiy master was Madison Newsome and my missis was Sarah Newsome* Named after her? Must a done it* Ma and her chillun was out wallowin9 in the dirt when the Yankees come by* Sometimes I stayed in the house with my white folks all night* "My mother and father say they was well treated* That98 what they say* •Old folks didn't low us chillun round when they was talkin9 bout their business, no ma'am* "We stayed with old master a good while after freedom—till they commenced emigratin9 from Georgia to Arkansas* Yes ma9ami & 30 o 3 3 *• 56 "I'm the mother of fourteen chillun-~two pairs of twins* I married young—bout fifteen or sixteen, I reckon* I married a young fellow* I say we was just chaps* Ifter he died, I married a old settled man and now he's dead* *I been livin' a pretty good life* Seems like the ifttite folks just didn't want me to get away from their chillun* "ill my chillun dead cept one son* He was a twin*99 30516 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Selle Anderson,, Holly Prove*, Arkansas Agp 78 "I was born near Deeatur, Alabama and lived there till I was fifteen years old* Course I members hearinf em talk bout liars Newt* I named fur my ma's old mistress — Miss Selle Thompson and Mars Newt Thompson. Ba died when I was three years old* He was a soldier* Ma had seven child- ren. They have bigger families then than they have now* Ma name Smmaline Thompson* Fa name Sam Adair* I canft tell you about him* I heard em say his pa was a white man* He was light skinned* Old folks didnft talk much foe children so I don't know well nough to tell you bout him* Mia was a cook and a licensed midwife in Alabama* She waited on both black and white* Ma never staid at home much. She worked out* I come to Mississippi after I married and had one child* Ma and all come* Ma went to Tom McOehee1 s to cook after freedom* She married old man named Lewis Chase and they worked on where he had been raised* His name was Lewis Sprangle* He looked after the stock and drove the carriage* Daniel Sprangle had a store and a big farm. He had three girjta and three boys* I was their house girl* Mama lived on the place and give me to em cause they could do better part by me than she could* I was six years old when she give me to em* They lerat me to sweep, knit, crochet, piece quilts* She lernt her children thater way sometimee. Hias Nancy Sprangle didn't treat me no different from her own girls* Miss Dora lurried Mr. Pitt Loney b« and I was dressed up and held up her train (long dress and veil)* I stayed with Miss Bora after she married* One of the girls married Mr* John Galbreth* I married and went home then come to Mississippi* Mrs* Gables, Mr. Gables was old people bat tkey had two adopted boys* I took them boys to the field to work wid my children* She sewed for me and my children* Her girls cooked all we et in busy times* They done work at the house but they didnft work in the field* *I been married five times* Every time I married I married at home* Mighty little marryin1 goinf on now — mighty little* Mama stayed wid Mr* Sprangle till we all got grown* Miss Nancy's girls married so that all the way I knowd how to do* I had a good time* I danced every chance I got* I been well blessed all my life till Ifm gettin' feeble now* nPapa run the gin on Mr* Spranglefs place, then he went to war, come back foe he died* I recken he ccme home sick cause he died pretty soon* nI jess can member this Ku KLux broke down our door wid hatchets* It scared us all to death* They didn't do nuthin1 to us* They was hunt in1 Uncle Jeff* He wasn't bout our house* He was ox driver fer Mr* Sprangle* Him and a family of pore white folks got to fUsain1 bout a bridle* Sons of em was dressed up when they come to our house ma said* After that Mr* Kirby killed him close to his home start inf out one mornln1 to work* Hie name was Uncle Jeff Saxon* Ma knowd it was scans of the men right on Mr* Sprangle1 s place whut come to our house* •I live wid my daughter* I get |8 from the Welfare* "If they vote for better it be all right* I never seen no poles* I don't know how they vote* I'm too old to start up votin'* 5* *Lawd ycai got me now* The times changed and got so fast* It all heyond me* I jes9 listens* I donvt know abut goner happen to this young generation*19 59 "0614 ou^ \ Interviewer._______________Smwl S. Taylor_____________1___ >r» Person interviewed I* A* Anderson (dark brown) 3200 V* 18th Street, Little Rock, Arkansas Act 78 Occupation_________House and yard man_________ ^ i U ^ At, "I don't know no-thin1 about slavery* Tou know I wouldn't know nothin* bout it cause I was only four years old when the war ended* All I know is I was born in slavery; bat I don't knew nothin' beat it* "I don't remember nothin* of my parents* Times was all confused and old folks didn't talk before chilun* They didn't have tine* Besides. my mother and father were separated* "I was born in Arkansas and have lived here all my life* Bat I don't gossip and entertain* I just moved in this house last week* Took a wheel* barrow and brought all these things here myself* "Those boys out there jus' threw a stone against the house* I thought the house was falling* Z work all day and when night comes, I'm tired* i •I don't have no wife, no children, nothin*; nobody to help me out* I don't ask the neighbors nothin' cept to clear out this junk they left here* •I ain't goin' to talk about the Xu KLux* I got other things to think about* It takes all my time and strength to do my work and live a Christian* Folks got so nowadays they don't care bout nothin*. I just live here and serve the lawd*" z. Interviewer1 s Cements Anderson la aepaxated from hia wife who left him* He loat his home a short time ago* A few months ago, ha waa ao sick he waa expected to die* Be supports himself through the friendliness of a few white people who give him odds and ends of work to do* I made three calls on him, helped him set up his stoves and hia bads and clear up hla houae a little bit since ha had juat moved into it and had a good deal of work to do* Sia misfortunes have made him unwilling to talk juat nowf but he will give a good interview later I am certain* 61 30495 Interviewer Mlaa Irene Bobertson Person interviewed Henry Anthony; B.F.D. #1* Biscoe. Arkansas Age 84 °t waa born at Jackson, North Carolina* My master and mistress named Betsy and Jason Williams but ay pafs name was Anthony* My young master was a orderly seargent* He took me wid him to return some miles and wagons* He showed me what he want done an I followed him round wid wagons* The wagons hauled amunition and provisions* Pa worked for the master and ma cooked* They got sold to Lausen Capert* then freedom come they went back and stayed a month or two at Williams then we all went back to John Odoou We stayed round close and farmed and worked till they died* I married and when I had four or five children I heard ob die country* I come on immigration ticket to Mr. Aydelott here at Biscoe* Train full of us got together $pd come* One white man got us all up and brought ua here to Biscoe. I farmed for Mr* Aydelott four or five years* then for Mr* Bland, Mr* Scroggin* vV I never went to school a day In my life* I uaed to vote here In Biaeoe right smart* I let the young folks do my votin* They can tell more about it* I aho do not think it is the woman9s place to vote an hold all the jobs from the men* Iff en you don9t in the Primary cause you donft know nuf to pick out a man, you aho donvt know nuthin er tall bout votin in the General lection* In fact it ain9t no good to our race nohow* »• 63 The whole world gone pass ay judgment long ago* I jess sets round to see what they say an do next* It is bad when you eaint get work you able to do an that's hard on the old folks* I could saved* I did save right smart* Sickness come on* Sometimes you have a bad crop year, make nuthinf but you have to live on* Young folks don't see no hard times if they keep well an able to work* vVI get commodities and |6 a month* I do a little if I can* One time my son bought a place fo me and him* He paid all eept #70* I don't know wfcut it cost now* It was 47 acres* I worked oa it three years* He sold it and went to the sawmill* He say he come out square on it* I didnft wanter sell it but he did* o.n 3 rv- ' ........-~- -64 Interviewer Mrs* Berniee Bewden Person interviewed settle Arbery -------515 YI. IHrWfah* pine Muff, Miansas----- Age 80 nI am eighty years old* Vfy name 'fore I was a Arbexy was Baxter* Vty mother was a Barber* Born in Union County* nl$r mother1 s first people -was Baxter and xoy grandmother was a Baxter and they just went by that name; she never did change her name* "The boss man—that was "what they called our master—-his name was Paul MoCall* He was married twice* His oldest son was Jim IfeCall* He was in the War* Yes ma1 am, the Civil War* "Paul MoCall raised me up with his chillun and I never did call him master* just called him pappy, and Jim MoCall, I called him brother Jim* Just raised us all up there in the yard* 1&* grandmother was the oook* "There wasn't no fightin' in Union County but I 'member when the Yankees was goin* through and singin' 'The Union forever, hurrah* boys, hurrah We'll rally 'round the flag* boys* Shouting the battle cry of freedom*' (She sang this—ed*) And I 'member this one good: 'Old buckwheat cakes and good strong butter To make your lips go flip* flip, flutter* Look away* look away, look away, Dixie land*' "pappy used to play that on his fiddle and have us chillun tryin1 to dance* Used to call us chillun and say, 'You little devils, come up here and dance' and have us marchin'* "l$r cousin used to "be a quill blower* Brother Jim would out f ishin* canes and plat f eaa together*~they called fem a pack—five in a row, just like ay fingers* Aiybody that inowed how could sure make music on 'em* Tom Rollins, that was my baby uncle* he was a banjo picker* nI can remember a heap a things that happened, but 'bout slavery, I didn't know one day from another* They treated us so nice that when they said freedom come, I thought I was always free* "I heered my grandmother talk about sellin' 'era* but I was just a little kid and I didn't know what they was talkin' about* I heered *esm say, 'Did you know they sold Aunt Sally away from her baby?1 X heered 'em talkin1, I Tavern that much* "After freedom, our folios stayed right on Paul MteCall's place* Jty grandmother cooked for the McCalls till I was eight or nine years old, then she cooked for the MoCrays—they was all relatives—till I was twenty-one* Then I married* "Paul McCall first married in the Barber family and then he married into the MoCray family* 1 lived on the McCall place till I was grown* They all come from Alabama* Yes'm* they come befo* tha war was* "Chillun in dec. days paid attention* People raised ohillun in dem days* Folks just feeds 'em now and lets 'em grow up* "I looks at the young race now and they is as wise as rabbits* MI never went to school but three months* but I never will forget that old blue back MoGuffey's* Sam Porter was our teacher and I was scared of him* I was so scared I couldn't learn not hint* "As far as 1 can remember I have been treated nice everywhere I been* Ain't none of the white folks ever mistreated me* 3, "Lord* we had plenty to eat in slavexy days—and freedom days too* "One time -when my mother -was cookin' for Colonel Morgan and my oldest brother was workin* some land, s$r mother always sent me over with a bucket of milk for him* So one day she say* 'Snooiy* come carry your brother1 s milk and hurxy so he can have it for dinner*1 I was goin' across a field} that was a awful deer country # I had on a red dress and was go in1 on with sy milk when I saw a old buck lookin' at me* All at once he went 'whu~u-u' * and then the whole drove came up* There was mosely trees (I think she must have meant mimosa—ed#) in the field and I run and climbed up in one of 'cm* A mosely tree grows crooked; I don't care how straight you put it in the ground* it's goin' to grow crooked* So 1 climb up in the mosely tree and begin to yell* Vfr brother heard me and come f cause he knowed what mis up* He used to say, 'Now* Snipe* when you come f cross that mosely field* don't you wear that old red drops f cause they111 get you down and tear that dress off yotf*' I liked the dress 'cause he had give it to me* I had set the milk down at the foot of the tree and it's a wonder they didn't knock it over* but when ay brother heard me yell he come a runnin', with a gun and shot one of the deer* I got some of the venison and he give some to Colonel Morgan* his boss man* Colonel Morgan had fought in the war* "The reason I can't tell you no more is* since I got old ny mind goes this and that a way* "But I can tell you all the doctors that doctored on me* They give me up to die once* I had the chills from the first of one January to the next* We had Dr* Chester and Dr* MoCray and Dr* Lewis—his name was Perry—and Dr* Green and Dr* Smead* Took quinine till I couldn't hear* and finally Dr* careen said* 'We'll just quit givin' her medicine* looks like she's goin' to die anyway*' 1^4 67 And then Dr# Lewie fed me for three weeks steady on okra soup oooked with chicken* Just give me the broth* Then I commenced gettin* better and here I am* "But I oan*t work like I used to* When I was young I oould work right along with the men but I can't do it ncm% I wish I could 'cause theyfs a heap a things I'd like that my chillun and grandchillun can't get for me« "Well* good-tye, came baok again sometime*11 68 *?Ai : Oft Interviewer Samuel S* Taylor_________________ Person interviewed______________Campbell Armstrong_____________ 802 Schiller Street, Little Rock, Arkansas Ago 86 . ..........Jj5*y*_ &r*fa*4- ^JrTt $i^k*±pj___ "I couldn't tell you when I was bora. I was born a good while before freedom* I was a boy about ten years old in the time of the Civil War* That would make me about eighty-five or six years old* "My father's name was Cy Armstrong* My mother's name was Grade Arm- strong* I don't know the names of my grandparents* They was gone when I got here* My sister died right there in the corner of the next room* House and Furniture "I used to live in an old log house* Take dirt and dob the cracks* The floors were these here planks* We had two windows and one door* That was in Georgia, in Houston County, on old Dempsey Brown\jb place * I know him—know who dug his grave* They had beds nailed up to the side of the house* People had a terrible time you know* White folks had it all* When I come along they had it and they had it ever since I been here* You didn't have no chance like folks have nowadays* Just made benches and stools to sit on* Made tables out of planks* I never saw any cupboards and things like that* Them things wasn't thought about then* The house was like a stable then* But them log houses was better than these 'cause the wind couldn't get through them* a* Work as a Boy "I wasn't doinf nothin' but totin' water* I toted water for a whole year when I was a boy about eight years old* I was the water boy for the field hands* Later I worked out in the fields myself# They would make me sit on my mammy's row to help keep her up* Free Negroes "You better not say you were free them days* If you did, they'd tell you to get out of there* You better not stop on this side of the Mason Dixie Line either* You better stop on the other side* Whenever a nigger got so he couldn't mind, they'd take him down and whip him. They'd whip the free niggers just the same as they did the slave a* Marriage "You see that broom there? They just lay that broom down and step over it* That was all the marriage they knowed about* Corn Shuckings "The boys used to just get down and raise a holler and shuck that corn* Man, they had fun! They sure liked to go to those corn shuckings* They danced and went on* Theyfd give *em whiskey too* That's all I know about it. Rations "They'd weigh the stuff out and give it to you and you better not go back* They'd give you three pounds of meat and a quart of meal and molasses when they'd make it* Sometimes they would take a notion to give you some- thing like flour* But you had to take what they give you* They give out the rations every Saturday* That was to last you a week* 3* Patroll&rs "I was at a ball one night * They had fence rails in the fire* Patroller knocked at the door, stepped in and closed it behind him* Nigger pulled a rail out of the fire and stuck it 'gainst the patroller and that patroller stepped aside and let that nigger get by* Niggers used to tie ropes across the road so that the patrollers' horses would trip up* Mulattoes WI never seed any raulattoes then. That thing is something that just come up* Old Dempsey Brown, if he seed a white man goin1 fround with the nigger women on his place, he run him away from there. But thatfs gwine on in the full now. "That ought not to be* If God had wanted them people to mix, heTd have mixed 'em* God made 'em red and white and black* And Ifm goinf to stay black# I ain't climbed the fence yet and I won't climb it now. I don't know* I don't believe in that* If you are white be white, and if you are black be black. Children need to go out and play but these boys ought not to be 'lowed to run after these girls* Whippings "Your overseer carried their straps with them* They had 'em with 'em all the time* Just like them white folks do down to the County Farm* Used to use a man just like he was a beast* They'd make him lay down on the ground and whip him* They'd had to shoot me down. That is the reason I tend to my business* If he wouldn't lay down they'd call for help and strap him down and stretch him out* Put one man on one arm and another on the other* They'd pull his clothes down and whip the blood out of him* Them people didn't care what they done since they didn't do right* 4* Freedom '"When I first heard them talking about freedom, I didnft know what freedom was. I was there standin' right up and looking at fem when they told us we was free. And master said, 'You all free now. You can go where you want to.1 "They never give you a thing when they freed you. They give you some work to do. They never looked for nothin' only to go to work. The white folks always had the best of it. "When Abe Lincoln first freed 'em, they all stood together. If this one was ill the others went over and sit up with him. If he needed some- thing they'd carry it to him# They don't do that now. They done well then. As soon as they quit standing together then they had trouble. Wages Then nFellow said to me, 'Campbell, I want you to split up them blocks and pile 'em up for me.' I said, 'What you goin' to pay me?1 He said, 'I'll pay you what is right.' I said, 'That won't do; you have to tell me what you goin' to give ma before I start to work.' And4he said to me, 'You can git to hell out of here#' Selling and Buying Slaves "They'd put you up on the block and sell you. That is just what they'd do—sell you. These white folks will do anything,—anything they want to do. They'd take your clothes off just like you was some kind of a beast. "You used to be worth a thousand dollars then, but you're not worth two bits now. You ain't worth nothin' when you're free# 5. 72 Refugees — Jeff Davis *They used to come to my place in droves* Wagons would start coming in in the morning and they wouldnft stop coming in till two or three in the evening. They'd just be travelin' to keep out the way of the Yankees* They caught old Jeff Davis over in Twiggs County. That's in Georgia. Caught him in Buzzard*s Roost. That was only about four or five railes from where I was. I was right down yonder in Houston County. Twigg County and Houston County . is adjoinin1. I never saw any of the soldiers but they was following them though* Voters "I have seen plenty of niggers voting* t wasn't old enough to vote in Georgia. I come in Arkansas and I found out how the folks used themselves and I come out that business* They was selling themselves just like cattle and I wouldn't have nothing to do with that* "I knew Jerry Lawson, who was Justice of Peace. He was a nigger, a low-down devil. Man, them niggers done more dirt in this city. The Republicans had this city and state. I went to the polls and there was very few white folks there. I knew several of them niggers—Mack Armstrong, he was Justice of Peace* I can't call the rest of them. Nothing but old thieves. If they had been people, they'd been honest. Wouldn't sell their brother. It is bad yet. They still stealin' yet* Kn Klux "That's another devil* Man, I'll tell you we seen terrible times* I donft know nothing much about 'em myself* I know one thing* Abe Lincoln said, 'Kill him wherever you see him.' 6* Self-Support and Support of Aged Slaves in Slave Times "A white man asked me how much they givinf me. I said, fKight dollars*f He said, fYou ought to be gittin* twenty-five.1 I said, fMaybe I ought to be but I ainft.f nI ain't able to do no work now. I ainft able to tote that wood hardly* I don't git as much consideration as they give the slaves back yonder. They didnft make the old people in slavery work when they was my age. My daddy when he was my age, they turned him out. They give him a rice patch where he could make his rice* When he died, he had a whole lot of rice* They stopped putting all the slaves out at hard labor when they got old. Thatfs one thing. White folks will take care of their old ones* Our folks won't do it# TheyTll take a stick and kill you. They don't recognize you're human. Their parents donft teach them. Folks done quit teaching their children. They donft teach them the right thing no more. If they donft do, then they ought to make them do* Little Hock "I been here about twenty years in Little Rock. I went and bought this place and paid for it* Somebody stole seventy-five dollars from me right here in this house. And that got me down. I ainft never been able to git up since* WI paid a man for what he did for me* He said, 'Well, you owe me fifteen cents.f When he got done he said, 'You owe me fifty cents.f You canft trust a man in the city* "I was living down in England* That's a little old country town* I come here to Little Rock where I could be in a city. I done well. I bought this place* 7. 74 *I reckon I lived in irkansasnsibout thirty years before I left and come here to Little Rock* When I left Georgia, I come to Arkansas and settled down in Lonoke County, made crops there* I couldnft tell you how long I stayed there* I didnft keep no record of it at all* I come out of Lonoke County and went into Jefferson* nMan, I was never in such shape as I am in now* That devilish stock law killed me* It killed all the people* Nobody ainft been able to do nothin* since they passed the stock law, I had seventy-five hogs and twenty cows* They made a law you had to keep them chickens up, keep them hogs up, keep them cows up» They shoots at every right thing, and the wrong things they donft shoot at* God don't uphold no man to set you up in the jail when you ain't done nothin1* You didn't have no privilege then (slave time), and you ainTt got none now*" interviewer ^ 30^40 Division 75 pernella Anderson, colored* Federal Writers* Project '\OdlO Itoion County, Arkansas EK-SLAVE AMD KIDDLES HI was horn in the Junction city community and belonged to the Cooks* I was ten years old at surrender* Mother and father had 12 children and we lived in a one room log cabin and cooked on a fireplace and oven* Mos and Miss Cook did not allow m and pa to whip me* When ever 1 do something and I knew I was going to get a whipping I would make it to old Miss* She would keep me from getting that whipping* I was a devilish boy* I would do everything in the world I could think of just for devilment* Old mos was sure good to his slaves* I never went to school a day in my life* Old Miss would carry me to church sometimes when it was hot so we could fan for her* We used palmeter fan leaves for fans* We ate pretty good in slavery time, hut we did not have all of this late stuff* Some of our dishes was possum stew, vegetables, per- simmon pie and tato bread* Ma did not allow us to sit around grown folks* When they we re ^ talking she always made us get under the bed* Our bed was made from pine poles* We children slept on pallets on the floor* The way slaves married in slavery time they jumped over the broom and when they separated they jumped backward over the broom* Times were better in slavery time to my notion than they are now because they did not go hungry, neither necked* They ate common and wore one kind of clothes*" A duck, a bullfrog and a skunk went to a circus* the duck and the Bullfrog got in, why didnft the skunk get in?; (Answer)* *he duck had a bill, the bullfrog had a greenback but the skunk had nothing but a scent* If your fatherfs sister is not your aunt what kin is she to you? (your mother)* What is the difference between a four quart measure and a side saddle? (Answer)* They both hold a gallon* ( a gal on) -Cora Armstrong, colored* 30902 76 Interviewer________________Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Lillie Baccua» Madison. Arkansas Age 75 "I'll tell you what I heard* I was too little to remember the Civil War* Mama's owner was _______ Dillard* She called him 'Masterf Dillard* Papa's owner was _____ Staiith* He called him 'Master* Smith* Mama was named Ann and papa Arthur Smith* I was born at West Point, Mississippi* I heard ma say she was sold* She said Fattick sold her* She had to leave her two children Cherry and Ann* Mama was a field hand* So was grandma yet she worked in the house some she said* After freedom Cherry and *rm come to mama* She was going to be sold agin but was freed before sold* "Mama didn't live only till I was about three years old, so I don't Jcaow enough to tell you about her* Grandma raised us* She was sold twice* She said she run out of the house to pick up a star when the stars fell* They showered down and disappeared* "The Yankees camped close to where they lived, close to West Pointf Mississippi, but in the country close to an artesian well* The well was on their place* The Yankees stole grandma and kept her at their tent* They meant to take her on to wait on them and use but when they started to move old master spicioned they had her hid down there* He watched out and seen her when they was going to load her up* He went and got the head man to make them give her up* She was so glad to come home* Glad to see him cause she wanted to see him* They watched her so close she was afraid they would shoot her leaving* She lived to be 101 years old* She raised me* «.. 77 She used to tell how the overseer would whip her in the field* They wasn't good to her in that way* *I have three living children and eleven dead. I married twice* My first husband is living* My second husband is dead* I married in day time in the church the last time* 111 else ever took place in my life was hard work# I worked in the field till I was too old to hit a tap* I live wid my children* I get #8 and commodities* *I come to -Arkansas because they said money was easy to get—growed on bushes* I had four little children to make a living for and they said it was easier* *I think people is better than they was long time ago* Times is harder* People have to buy everything they have as high as they is, makes money scarce nearly bout a place as hen's teeth* Hens ainft got no teeth* We donft have much money I tell you# The Welfare gives me #8*" 30836 78 Interviewer Samuel S* Taylor___________________ Person interviewed Joseph Samuel Badgett 1221 Wright Avenue, Little Rock, Arkansas Age 72 .........jT fa/tLr _ _ kj* _ then hooked the thread on it and pulled it back again threading his needle *s fast as if **e had good eyesight. This is a needle threader* I made it myself. Watch me thread a needle* Can't I do it as fast as if I had a head full of keen eyes? Ify wife been gone twenty years* She went blind too* I had to do something* Uf patches may not look 80 pretty but they aura holt (hold)* "You wants to know what I think of the way young folks is doing these day a? They'ee gain9 to fast. So ia their papaa and mammas* Day done forgot dey'a a God and a day of aettlin9* °en what dances paya de fid- dler* I got religion long time ago- jined de Baptist churcfc in 18?0 and vaven't never got away from it* I'se tried to tote fair with God and he's done fair by me* "Does I get a pension? I ahure do* It was a lucky day when de Yankaea got me* Ef t*ey hadn't I don't know What'd become of me. After I went blind I had hard times. Folks* White folks and all, brought me food* But that wasn't any good way to get along* Sometimes I ate, sometimes I didn't* So some of my wv>ite» frianda dug up my record with the Yankaea and got ma a panaion* Now I'm setting pretty for da rest of my life* Yes - 0 yes I'ss older dan most folks get* Still I may to still takin9 my grub *ere w*en some of these young Whiskey drinkin rassin* around young cv>ap8 is under the dirt. It pays to I don know of any bad spots in me yet* It pays to live honest» work t*ardf stay sober* God only knows what some of these lazy, triflin9 drinkin1 young folks is comin9 to* 100 101 3(>ff ^ Interviewer Pernalla M. Anderson Parson Interviewed Mose Banks Douglas Addition, SI Dorado, Arkansas las 69 ¦My nans is Moss Banks and I am sixty-nine years old* I was born in 1869* I was born four Tears after freedom but still I was a slave in a way* My papa stayed with bis old alas and master after freedom until ha died and be just died in 1918, so we all stayed with bin too* I bad one of the beat easiest times in my life* My master was name Bob Sterenson and be was a jewel* Never meaned us, never dogged, never hit one of us in his life* Be bought us just like he bought my papa* He never made any of the girls work in the field* He said the work was too hard* He always said splitting rails, bushing, plowing and work like that was for men* That work makes no count women* "The girls swept yards, cleaned the house, nursed, and washed and ironed, combed old miss* and the children's hair and cut their finger and toe nails and mended the clothes* The womena' job was to cook, attend to the cows, knit all the socks for the men and boys, spin thread, card bats, weave cloth, quilt, sew, scrub and things like that* "The little boys drove up the cows, slopped the hogs, got wood and pine for light, go to the spring and get water* After a boy was twelve then he let him work in the field* My main job was hitching the horse to the buggy for old Miss Stevenson, and put the saddle on old master's saddle horse* •I was very small but when the first railroad come through old master took us to see the train* I guess it was about forty or fifty miles 2* because it took us around four days to make the round trip* The trains were not like they are now* The engine was smaller and they burned wood and they had what they called a drum head and they didnft run very fast, and could not carry many cars* It was a narrow gauge road and the rails were small and the road was dirt* It was not gravel and rocks like it is now* It was a great show to me and we all had something to talk about for a long time* People all around went to see it and we camped out one night going and coming and camped one night at the railroad so we could see the train the next day* A man kept putting wood in the furnace in order to keep a fire* Smoke come out of the drum head* The drum head was something like a big waahpot or a big old hogshead barrel* An ox team was used for most all traveling* 7cm did not see very many horses or mules* "The white children taught us how to read and I went to school too* *I went to church too* We did not have a church house; we used a brush arbor for service for a long time* In the winter we built a big fire in the middle and we sat all around the fire on small pine logs* Later they built a log church,so we had service in there for years* "We did not live near a school, so old mistress and the children taught us how to read and write and count* I never went to school in my life and I bet you, canft none of these children that rub their heads on college walls beat me reading and counting* You call one and ask them to divide ninety-nine cows and one bob-tailed bull by two, and they can9t answer it to save their lives without a pencil and paper and two hours9 figuring when it's nothing to say but fifty* "Wasn't no cook stoves and heaters until about 1890 or 1900* If there was I did not know about them* They cooked on fireplace and fire out in the yard 3. 103 on tibat they called oven and we had plenty of plain grab* Jfe stole egg* from the big house because .we never got any eggs* "The custom of marrying was just pack up and go on and live with tfio you wanted to; that is the Negroes dld**I don't know how the white people married* This lawful marrying asms from the law since men made law* *!hen anybody died everybody stopped working and moaned and prayed until after the burying* •I can say there is as much difference between now and sixty years ago as it is in day and night** > A ^ .,........ 104 30608 Interviewer______S, S, Taylor ^ Person Interviewed Henry Banner 49 County Hospital : Age ? Little Rock, Ark, / 7^/^ d*y^ g^^^ Uul My father balong to Boaton Hack* Ha wouldn't aall and Mr. MeHeill wouldn't aall and that bow it coaa* "X aaatar bean fire or aix yaara old whan I eoaa oat here to irkanaaa* My grandma waa a midwife. Sba waa already out here* Sba had to eoaa with tba f irat crowd eauae aoaa woaan waa expect- ing. X tall you it aho waa equally time a. Thia country waa wild* 8* It waa different from Tennessee or eloaa to Germantown where wa come from* Mono of the slaves liked it hat they waa brought* "The war cone on direekly after wa got here* Several families had the slaves drove off to Texas to save them* Keep em from following the Yankee soldiers right here at the Staff off* I remember aaein* them coma up to the gate* My mother and two aunts want* Hia son and some more men drove am* After freedom them what left ohildern coma back* Z atayad with my grandma while they gone* I fed the chickena, ahelled corn, churned, swept. I done any little turns they sent ma to do. it mk ••One thing I remember happened whan they had a aerlmmege cloae — ber been the one on long Prairie — they brought a young boy ahot through hia lung to Mr* Phillip McNeill* a houae* Ha waa a stranger. He died* I felt ao sorry for him. He waa right young* Ha belong to the Southern army* The Southern army nearly made hia place their headquartere* •Another thing I remember waa a agent waa going through the country aettin' fire to all the cotton* Mr. McNeill had hia cotton — all our crop we made* That man aat it afire* It burned more than a weak big> Ha burned acme left at the gin not Mr. McNeill*a* It waa fan to ue children but I know my grandma cried and all the balance of the alevee* Cause they got some Christmas money and elothea too whan the cotton waa sold* "The slaves hated the Yenkeea. They treated them mean* They waa having a big time* They didn't Ilka the slaves* They ateal from the alavea too* Some poor folka didn't have slavee* "After freedom my mother coma back after me and we coma here to St Tails Bluff and I been hare aver alnce* She Yankee soldiera had built a; shacks and they laft than* They would do* Sam* «as one room, log, boxad and all aorta* They giro as a little to aat to kaap as from starrin'. It sho was a little bit too* My mother get work about* The first achoolhouse was a eolorad school* le had two rooms and two teachers aaat down from the North to teach us. If they had a white school I didn't know It* They had oaa later on* Z was bout grown* Mr* Proctor and Miss Rice was tha first teachers, la laughed bout am* They waa rough looking, didn't look lika white folka dowa here we'd been uaad to* They thought they sho waa smart* Another teacher eome dowa here waa Mr* Abner* white folks wouldn't hove no thin' to do with am* We learned* They learned us the ISO's and to write* X can read* X learned a heap of it since X got grown just trying* They gimme a start. "Times is hard in a way* Prices so alga* X never had a hard time la my life* I get #40 a month* It ia cause my husband was a soldier here at 9a Tails Bluff* "X do not Tote. I ain't goiner rote* / / "X don't know what to think of tha young generation. They are oa the road to ruin seems like* X speaJcin' of the real young folka* They do lika they see the white girls and boya do in'. I don't know what to beoome of am* The women outer stay at home and let the man take care of am* The woman seems like taking all tha Jobs. The colored folks eookla* and making the living for their men folka* Xt ain't right — to ma* But I don't care how they do* Things ain't got fixed since that last war." florid war)* 30331 112 Interviewer lira* Boss B. Ingram Person interviewed Lissle Barnett; Conway. Arkansas Age 100? Tes^ I was born a slave* My old mammy was a slave before as* She was owned by ay old Kiss, fanny Pennington, of Nashville, Ten- nessee* I was born on a plantation near there* She is dead new* I shore did love Miss Fanny* fi "Did you have any brothers and sisters* Aunt Liz.?"^/"sTiy, law yes, honey, ay mammy and Miss Fanny raised dey ehillun together* Three each, and we was Jos' like brothers and sisters, all played in de same yard* Ho, we did not eat together* Dey sot us niggers out in de yard to eat, but many a afcee I*se slept with Miss Fanny* vv Mr* Pennington up and took de old-tine Consumption. Bey calls it T. B. now. My nanny nursed him and took it from him and died before Mr* Abe Lincoln ever sot her free* * I have seen hard tines, Miss, I shore have* \vIn dam days when a man owned a plantation and had children and they liked any of the little slave niggers, they were issued out to 'em just like a horse or cow. \x •Member, honey, when de old-time war happened between the North and South, The Slavery War. It was so long ago I just can 'member it* Dey had us niggers scared to death of the Bluejackets* One day a man came to Miss Fanny's house and took a liking to me* s< He put od up on a block an9 he aay. <*Eow old is die nigger?* An9 ate aay *tive* when she know wall an1 good I waa ten. No, ha didn11 get me* Bat I thought my tine had cone* % Yes, siree, I was Miss Fanny18 child. Why wouldn9t I love her whan I sucked titty from her breast when my mammy waa working in the field? I shore did love Miss Fanny* v Whan da nigger war waa over and day dldnft fit [fight]} any longer, Abe Lincoln aot all de niggers free and den got •sassinated far doin it# vVMias, you don't know what a hard life wa slaves had, causa you ain9t old enough to 'member it* Many a time I9re heard the bull whips a-flying, and heard the awful cries of the slaves. The flash would be out in graat gapa and the maggita jitapflfi+frt would gat in than and they would aquixm In misery. \VI want you to know I am not an Arkansas born nigger. I come from Tennessee. Be sure to put that down. I moved to Msmphis after Mias Fanny died. \\While I lived in Memphis, de Yellow Fever broke out. You have never aaed the like. Everything was under quarantine. The folks died in piles and de coffins waa piled as high aa a house. They burled them in trenches, and later they dug graves and buried them. Whan they got to looking into the coffins, they discovered some had turned over in dey coff ina and acme had clawed dey eyas out and acne had gnawed holes in dey hands. Day waa buried alive! ^ Miss, do you believe in ha9nta? fell, if you had been in Memphis den you would* Dey was jea9 pared in1 de streets at nite and you9d meet dem comin at you round da dark corners and all de houses every- where waa hafnted. I9ve aaed plenty of 9em wid ay own eyes, yea, siree. ** 114 Yes, the times were awful in Memphis endurin the plague, Women dead lying around and babies sucking their breasts* la soon as the frost earns and the quarantine was lifted, I came to Conway, 1867. Bat I am a Tennessee nigger, vvlhsn I eame to Convay there were few houses to lire in* No depot* I bought this pieee of land to build my shanty from Mr* Jim Harkrider for |85.00. I worked hard for whits folks and saved my money and had this little two-room house built {iud chimney, and small porch and one small window)* It is about to fall down on me, but it will last as long as I live* At first, I lived and cooked under a bush (brushj ^harbor* Cooked on the coals in an iron skillet* Here it is, Miss* W Part ob de time after de nigger war [Civil] I lived in Hot Springs. President 'Kinley had a big reservation over there and a big hospital for the sick and wounded soldiers* Den ds war broke out in Cuba and dere was a spatch^ board ((dispatch)^ what de news come over dat de was on* Ben when dat war was over and 'Kinley was tryin to get us niggers a slave pension dey up and 'sassinatod him* \VAfter Mr. Lincoln sot ds slaves free,, day had northern teachers down South and they were called spies and all left the country* vvi don't know 'aaetly how old I am* Dey say I em 100* If Hiss fanny was livin' she could settle it* But I have had a hard life* Tea mam* Here I is living in my shanty, 'psndin' on my good whits neighbors to fsed me and no income 'espt my Old ige Pension* Thank God for Mr. Roosevelt* I love my Southern white friends* I am glad ths Borth and South dons shook hands and made friends* 111 I has to do now is sit and look forward to ds day whan I oan mast my old and Miss Fanny in the dory Land* Thank God* Ooai l15 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Spencer Baraett (blind). Holly Prove, Ark* A. >f Aaa 81 r C-' "I was born April SO, 1856. It was wrote ia a old Bible* I am 81 years old* I was born 5 miles from Florence, Alabama* The folks owned us was Nancy and mars Tom Williams* To my reoolleetlon they had John, William, and Tom, boys; Jane, Ann, lacy, and Knsaa, girls* la ay family there was 13 children* My parents name Barry and Harriett Baraett* "mars Tom Williams had a tanaiag yard* He bought hides this way: When a fellow bring hides he would tan em then give him back half what he brought* Then he work up the rest ia shoes, harness, whoops, saddles and sell them* The men all worked wid him and he had a farm* He raised corn, cotton, wheat, and oats* "That slavery was bad* Mars Tom Williams wasn't cruel* Be never broke the skin* When the horn blowed they better be in place* They used a twisted cowhide whoop* It was wet and tied, then it mortally would hurt* One thing you had to be in your place day and night* It was confinin'* "Sunday was visiting day* "One man come to dinner, he hit a horse wid a rock and rum way* He missed his dinner* He come back fo dark and went tole mars Tom* He didn't whoop him* I was mighty little when that took place* "They worked on Saturday like any other day* One man fixed oat the rations* It didn't take long fer to go git em* 2. 116 "The women plowed like men in plow tine* Some women made rails* When it was cold and raining they spun and wove in the house* The awn cut wood under a shed or side the barn so it knock off the wind* Hers Tom Williams had 12 grown men and women* I was too little to count hut I heard my folks call em over by name and number more times en I got f ingera and toes* He would hire em out to work some* "When freedom come on I was on Kawkln lankford Simpson place* It was 3 or 5 miles from town. They had a big dinner-picnic close by* It was 4 or 5 day of August* Jl lot of soldiers come by there and said, ?You niggers air free** It bout broke up the picnic* The white folk* broke off home* Them wanted to go back went, them didn't struck off gone wild* Miss Lacy end Mr. Bob Bamett give all of em stayed some corn and a little money* Then he paid off at the end of the year* Then young master went and rented at Dllly Bunt place* We stayed wld him 3 or 4 years then we went to a place he bought* Tom Bamett come to close to little Book* Mara William started and died on the way in Memphis* We come on wid the family* Ouess they are all dead now* Wisht I know or could find em* Tom never married* Be was a soldier* One of the boys f died fo the war started* "My brother Xoe married Luvenia Omated and Lewis (tested married my sister Betsy and Mars Tom Williams swapped the women* My ma was a cook for the white folks how I come to know so much bout it all* Boys wore loose shirts till they was nine or ten years old* The shirt come to the calf of the leg* Ho belt* "We had plenty common eating* They had a big garden and plenty milk* They cooked wld the egga mostly* They would kill a beef and have a week of hog killing* They would kill the beef the hardest weather that cone* The families cooked at night and on Sunday at the log cabins* They cook at night for all next day* The old men hauled wood* "When I was a little boy I could hear men ronninf the slaves wld hounds in the mountains* The landmen paid paddyrollers to keep track of slaves* Seep em home day and night* "We took turns bout going to white church* We go in waahln9 at the creek and put on clean clothes* She learned me a prayer* Old mistress learned me to say it night a I slept up at the house* I still can say it: 'Now I lay me down to sleep I pray the Lord my soul to keep If I should die fo I wake I pray the Lord my soul to take*9 "The slaves at our places had wheat straw beds* The white folks had fine goose feather beds* We had no idle days* Bad a long time at dinner to rest and rest and water the teams* Sometimes we fed them* Old mistress had two peafowls roosted in the Colonial poplar trees* She had a pigeon house and a turkey house• I reckon chicken and goose house* too* When company come you take em to see the faxm, the garden* the new leather things jes9 made and to see the little ducks, calves* and colts* Folks don't care bout seeing that now* "The girls went to Florence to school* 111 I can recollect is them going off to school and I knowed it was Florence* "The Yankees burned the big house* It was a fine house* Old mistress moved in the overseer's house* He was a white man* He moved somewhere else* The Yankees made raids and took 15 or 20 calves from her at one time* They set the tater house afire* They took the corn* 118 Old mistress erled more an one tine* The Yankees starred out more black faces than white at their stealing* After that war it was hard for the slaves to have a shelter and enough eat in9 that winter * They died in piles bout after that August I tole you bout* Joe Innes was our overseer when the house burned* ••The Ku KLuz come to my house twice* They couldnft get filled up wid water* They scared us to death* I heard a lot of things they done* •I don9t vote* I voted once in all my life fo some county officers* *I been in Arkansas since February 5, 1880* I come to Little Cypress* I worked for Mr* Clark by the month, J* W» Crocton's place, Mr* Kitchen9 s place* I was brakeman on freight train awhile* I worked on the section* I farmed and worked in the timber* I don9t have no children; I never been married* I wanted to work by the month all my life* I sells mats (shuck mats) $1.00 and I bottom chairs 50ff* The Social Welfare gives me #10*00* That is 10ff a meal* That woman next door boards me — table board — for 50£ a day* I make all I can outer fust one thing and another*99 (He is blind - cataracts*) 3©m :30905 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson________ Person interviewed_________Rrnma Barr» Madison, Arkansas Age 65 119 "My parents belong to two people* Mama was born in Mississippi I think and papa come from North Carolina* Papa's master was Lark Hickerson* Mama was sold from Dr* Vifare to Dr. Pope* She was grown when she was sold* She was the mother of twenty-seven children* She had twins three times* "During the Civil War she was run from the Yankees and had twins on the road* They died or was born dead and she nearly died* They was buried between twin trees close to Hernando, Mississippi* Her last owner was Dr* Pope, ten miles south of Augusta, Arkansas* I was born there and raised up three miles south of Augusta, Arkansas* "When mama was sold she left her people in Mississippi but after freedom her sisters, Aunt Mariah and Aunt Mary, come here to mama* Aunt Mariah had no children* Aunt Mary had four boys, two girls* She brought her children. Mama said her husband when Dr* Ware owned her was Maxwell but she married my papa after Dr* Pope bought her* "Dr* Ware had a fine man he bred his colored house women to* They didnft plough and do heavy work* He was hostler, looked after the stock and got in wood* The women hated him, and the men on the place done as well* They hated him too. My papa was a Hickerson* He was a shoemaker and waited on Dr* Pope* Dr* Pope and Miss Marie was good to my parents and to my auntees when they come out here* 2* "I am the onliest one of mama's children living* Mama was sold on the block and cried off I heard them say when they lived at Wares in Miss-' issippi* Mama was a house girl, Aunt Mary cooked and my oldest sister put fire on the skillet and oven lids* That was her job* "Mama was lighter than I am* She had Indian blood in her. One auntee was half white• She was lighter than I amt had straight hair; the other auntee was real dark* She spun and wove and knit socks* Mama said they had plenty to eat at both homes. Dr. Pope was good to her* Mama went to the white folks church to look after the babies. They took the babies and all the little children to church in them days. ??Mama said the preachers told the slaves to be good and bedient. The colored folks would meet up wid one another at preaching same as the white folks. I heard my auntees say when the Yankees come to the house the mis- tress would run give the house women their money and jewelry and soon as the Yankees leave they would come get it* That was at Wares in Mississippi. *I heard them talk about slipping off and going to some house on the place and other places too and pray for freedom during the War* They turned an iron pot upside down in the room* When some mensf slaves was caught on another mant s place he was allowed to whoop them and send them home and they would git another whooping* Some men wouldn't allow that; they said they would tend to their own slaves* So many men had to leave home to go to war times got slack* wIt was Judge Martin that owned my papa before he was freed* He lived close to Augusta, Arkansas. When he was freed he lived at Dr. Pope's. He was sold in North Carolina* Dr* Pope and Judge Martin told them they was free. Mama stayed on with Dr. Pope and he paid her* He never did whoop her* 120 3. 121 Mama told me all this* She died a few years ago* She was old* I never heard much about the Ku Klux# Mama was a good speller* I was a good speller at school and she learned with us. I spelled in Webster1s Blue Back Speller* "We children stayed around home till we married off* I nursed nearly all my life* Me and my husband farmed ten years* He died* I donft have a child* I wish I did have a girl* My cousin married us in the church* His name was Andrew Baccus* "After my husband died I went to Coffeeville, Kansas and nursed an old invalid white woman three years, till she died* I come back here where I was knowed* I,m keeping this house for some people gone off* Part of the house is rented out and I get $8 and commodities* I been sick with the chills." oil 640 12<<5 Interviewer_______S. S. Taylor________ Person interviewed Robert Barr______ 3108 West 18th St. Age 75 Little Rock, Ark. Occupation________Preaching___________ ___________• >-¦ WI am a minister of the Gospel. I have been preaching for the last thirty years. I am batching here. A man does bet- ter to live by himself. Young people got the devil in them now a days. Your own children don't want you around. "I got one grand-daughter that ain't never stood on the floor. Her husband kicked her and hit her and she ain't never been able to stand up since. I got another daughter that ain't thinking about marrying. She just goes from one man to the other. "The government gives me a pension. The white folks help me all along. Before I preached, I fiddled, danced, shot craps, did anything. "My mother was born in Chickasaw, Mississippi. She was born a slave. Old man Barr was her master. She was a Lucy Appelin and she married a Barr. I don't know whether she stood on the floor and married then as they do now or not. They tell me that they just gave them to them in those days. My mother said that they didn't know anything about marriage then. They had some sort of a way of doing. 01' Massa would call them up — and say, 'You take that man, and go ahead. You are man and wife.' I don't care whether you liked it or didn't. You had to go 2. 123 ahead* I heard em say: 'Mgger ain't no more'n a horse or cow*' But they got out from under that now* The world is growing more and more civilized* But when a nigger thinks he is something, he ain't nothin'* White folks got all the laws and regulations in their hands and they can do as they please* You surrender under em and go along and you are all right* If they told a woman to go to a man and she didn't, they would whip her. You didn't have your own way* They would make you do what they wanted. They'd give you a good beating too* "My father was born in Mississippi. His name was Simon Barr. My mother and father both lived on the same plantation* In all groups of people they went by their master's name* Before she married, my mother's master and mistress were Appelins* When she got married - got ready to marry - the white folks agreed to let them go together. Old Man Barr must have paid something for her* According to my mother and father, that's the way it was* She had to leave her master and go with her husband's master. "According to my old father and mother, the Patteroles went and got the niggers when they did something wrong. They lived during slave -time. They had a rule and government over the colored and there you are. When they caught niggers out, they would heat them. If you'd run away, they'd go and get you and heat you and put you hack. When they'd get on a nigger and beat him, the colored folks would holler, 'I pray, Massa.1 They had to have a great war over it, before they.freed the nigger. The Bible says there is a time for all things, "My mother and father said they got a certain amount when 5. 124 they was freed. I donft know how much it was. It was only a small amount* After a short time it broke up and they didnft get any more. I get ten dollars pension now and that is more than they got then. "I heard Old Brother Page in Mississippi say that the slaves had heard em say they were going to be free. His young mistress heard em say he was going to be free and she walked up and hocked and spit in his face. When freedom came, old Massa came out and told them. "I have heard folks talk of buried treasure. Ifll bet there fs more money under the ground than there is on it. They didnft have banks then, and they put their money under the ground. For hundreds of years, there has been money put under the ground. 111 heard my mother talk about their dances and frolics then. I never heard her speak of anything else. They didn't have much freedom. They couldnft go and come as they pleased. You had to have a script to go and come. Niggers ain!t free now. You can't do anything; you got nothin1. This whole town belongs to white folks, and you can't do nothin1. If nigger get to have anything, white folks will take it. "We raised our own food. We made our own flour. We wove our own cloth. We made our clothes. We made our meal. We made our sorghum cane molasses. Some of them made their shoes, made their own medicine, and went around and doctored on one another. They were more healthy then than they are now. This generation don't live hardly to get forty years old. They don't live long now. 4* 125 WI came to Arkansas about thirty-five years ago# I got right into ditches. The first thing I did was farm. I farmed about ten years• I made about ten crops* Mississippi gave you more for your crops than Arkansas#w 126 '0 Interviewer _____Mrs* Bernice Bowden____________ Person interviewed_______________Matilda Bass _________ 1100 Palm Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 60 "Yes ma'am, I was eight years old when the Old War ceasted* "Honey, I've lived here twenty years and I don't know what this street is* "I was born in Greenville, Mississippi* They took my parents and carried 'em to Texas to keep 'em from the Yankees. I think they stayed three years 'cause I didn't know 'em when they come back© *I 'member the Yankees come and took us chillun and the old folks to Vicksburg. I 'member the old man that seed after the chillun while their parents was gone, he said I was eight when freedom come* We didn't know nothin' 'bout our ages—didn't have 'nough sense* "My parents come back after surrender and stayed on my owner's place—John Scott's place. We had three masters—three brothers* "I been in Arkansas twenty years—right here. I bought this hOKQB* "I married my husband in Mississippi. We farmed* "The Lord uses me as a prophet and after my husband died, the Lord sent me to Arkansas to tell the people. He called me out of the church. I been out of the church now thirty-three years. Seems like all they think about in the churches now is money, so the Lord called me out.* 50399 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Banett Beal. Blscoe» Arkansas Age 78 #655 127 •I was born in Holloman County, Bolivar, Tennessee. Master Br* Jim May owned my set er folks* He had two girls and two boys. I reckon he had a wife tut I donvt recollect seeing her* Ma suckled me; William May with me. Ely and Seley and Susie was his children* "I churned for mama in slavery. She tied a cloth around the top so no flies get in* I better hadn't let no fly get in the churn* She take me out to a peach tree and learn me how to keep the flies outen the churn next time* •Mama was Dr. May's cook* le et out the dishes but I donft know how all of fem done their eating* They eat at their houses* Dr. May had a good size bunch of hands, not a big crowd* We had straw beds* Made new ones every summer. In that country they didn't 9low you to beat yoY hands up* I heard my folks say that morevn one time* "Br* May corns tole 'em it was freedom* They could get land and stay- all 9at wanted to* All his old ones kept on wid him* They sharecropped and soms of them got a third* I recollect him and worked for him* "The Kn ELux didn't bother none of us* Dr. May wouldn't 'low them on his place* •Mama come out here in 1880* I figured there better land out here and I followed her in 1881* We paid our own ways* Seem like the owners ougfrt to give the slaves something but seem like they was mad 'cause they set us free* Ma was named Viney May and pa, Nick May* 2- 128 *Fa and four or five brothers was sold in Memphis* He never seen his brothers no more* They come to Arkansas* "Pa and Dr* May went to war* The Yankees drafted pa and he come back to Dro May after he fit* He got his lip split open in the War* Dr* May come home and worked his slaves* He didnYt stay long in war* "I reckon they had plenty to eat at home* They dldnft run to the stores every day fbout starved to death like I has to do now* Ma said they dldn9t 9low the overseers to whoop too much er Dr* May would turn them off* "Er horse stomped on my foot eight years ago* I didn9t pay it much ftention* It didnft hurt* Blood~p'ison come in it and they took me to the horsepital and my leg had to come off, (at the knee)* "We have to go back to Africa to vote all the Ylections* Voting brings up moire hard feelings*19 / t . ,m"' 129 Interviewer pernella Anderson, colored* ; - W EX-SLAVES Yes I was torn in slavery time* I was "born September 2, 1862 in the field uncb r a tree. I donft know nothing about slavery* I was too young to remember anything about slavery* But I tell you this much, times ainft like they used to be* There was easy living hack in the 18 hundred years* People wore homemade clothes, what I mean homespun and lowell clothes. My ma spun and weaved all of her cloth. We wore our dresses down to our ankles in length and my dresses was called mother hubtards. The skirts had about three yards circumference and we wore plenty of clothes under our dress* We did not go necked like these folks do now. Folk did not know how we was made* We did not show our shape, we did not disgrace ourself hack in 1800* We wore our hair wrapped and head rags tied on our head* I went barefooted until I was a young missie then I wore shoes in the winter hut I still went barefooted in the summer* My papa was a shoemaker so he made our shoes* We raised everything that we ate when I was a chap* We ate a plenty* We raised plenty of whippowell peas. That was the only kind of peas there was then. We raised plenty Ifcodie sweet potatoes they call them nigger chokers now* We had cows so we had plenty of milk and butter* We cooked on the fireplace* The first stove I cooked on was a white woman's stove, that was 1890* I never chanced to go to school because where we lived there wasnft no school. I worked all of the time. In fact that was all we knew* White people did not see where negroes needed any learning so we had to work* We lived on a place with some white people by the name of Dunn* They were good people but they taken all that was made because we did not know. I ainft never been sick in my life and I have never had a doctor in my life* I am in good health now* We traveled horseback in the years of 1800. We did not ride straddle the horsefs back we rode sideways. The old folks wore their dreses dragging the ground. We chaps 130 -2- called everybody old that married. We respected them hecau.se they was considered as toeing old* 'lime has made a change* -Dina Beard, Douglas Addition. .'30728 131 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Annie Beck. West Memphis» Arkansas Age 50 "I was born in Mississippi* Mama was born in Alabama and sold to Holcomb, Mississippi* Her owner was Master Beard* She was a field woman* They took her in a stage- coach • Their owner wanted to keep it a secret about freedom* But he had a brother that fussed with him all the time and he told the slaves they was all free* Mama said they was pretty good always to her for it to be slavery, but papa said his owners wasnft so good to him* He was sold in Rich- mond9 Virginia to Master Thomas at Grenada, Mississippi• He was a plain fanning man*9 #783 132 Interviewer Bemice Bowden Person interviewed_________Jt H* Beckwith_________________________ 619 North Spruce Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 68 "No mafm I was not horn in the time of slavery* I was sixty-eight last Friday* I was born November 18, 1870 in Johnson bounty, North Carolina* ffl4y mother was horn in Georgia and her name was Gracie Barum. Father was horn in North Carolina* His name was Rufus Beckwith* He belonged to Doctor Beckwith tand mother, I think, belonged to Tom Barum* Barum was just an ordi- nary farmer* He was just a second or third class farmer — just poor white folks* I think my mother was the only slave he owned* My father had to walk seven miles every Saturday night to see my mother, and he back before sunrise Monday* "My parents had at least three or four children born in slavery* I know my father said he worked at night and made shoes for his family* "iiiy father was a mulatto* He had a negro mother and a white father. He had a mechanical talent. He seemed to be Somewhat of a genius. He had a pro- ductive mind* He could do blacksmithing, carpenter work, brick work and shoe work* "Father was married twice* He raised ten children by each wife. I think my mother had fifteen children and I was the the thirteenth child. I am the only hoy among the first set, called to the ministry. Arid there was one in the second set. Father learned to read and write after freedom. "After freedom he sent my oldest brother and sister to Hampton, Virginia and they were graduated from Hampton Institute and later taught school* They were graduated from the same school Booker T* Washington was* He got his idea of vocational education there* -2- "I haven't had much education, r went as far as the eighth grade. The biggest education* I have had was in the Conference. 111 joined the Little iiock General Conference at Texarkana in 1914. This was the Methodist Episcopal, Forth, and I was ordained as a deacon and later an elder by white bishops. Then in 1930 I joined the African Methodist. "3y trade I am a carpenter and bricklayer* I served an apprentice under my father and under a German contractor. 111 used to be called the best negro journeyman carpenter between Monroe, Louisiana and Little Rock. Arkansas. "I made quite a success in my trade. I have a couple of United States Patent Bights. One is a brick mold holding ten bricks and used to make bricks of concrete. The other is a sliding door. (See attached drawings) tfI was in the mercantile business two and one-half years in oevier County. I sold that because it was too confining and returned to the carpenterfs trade. I still practice my trade some now. HI have net had to ask help from anyone* I have helped others. I own my home and I sent, my daughter to Fisk University where she was graduated. While there she met a young man and they were later married and now live in Chicago* They own their home and are doing well. ?tIn ray work in the ministry I am trying to teach my people to have higher ideals. t#e have to bring our race to that high ideal of race integrity. I am trying to keep the negro from thinking he is hated by the upper class of white people* «(hat the negro needs is self-consciousness to the extent that he aspires to the higher principles in order to stand on an equal plane in attain- ment but not in a social way. "At present, the negrofs ideals are too low for him to visualize the evils involved in race mixture* He needs to be lifted in his own estimation and 133 -3- 134 learn that a race cannot be estimated by other races - by anything else but their own ideals. "The younger generation is off on a tangent. They'll have to hit something before they stop. "The salvation of our people - of all people—white and colored, is leadership. We've got to have vision and try to give the people vision. Not to live for ourselves but for all. The present generation is selfish. The life should flow out and as it flows out it makes room for more life. If It does not flow out, it congeals and ferments. Selfishness is just like dam- ming a stream. "I think Woodrow Wilson won the World War with his fourteen points of democracy. If the people of foreign countries had not that old imperialism sentiment, the Jew would not be where he is today." Interviewer's Comment This man is the best informed and most sensible negro I have interviewed. In the room where I interviewed him, were a piano, a radio, many ferns, a wool rug, chairs, divan, and a table on which were books including a set of the Standard History of the World. I asked if he had read the history and he re- plied, "Not all of it but I have read the volumes pertaining to the neolithic age. On the walls were several pictures and two tapestries. The house was a good frame one and electric current was used. Intervlawar Miaa Irene Bobartaon Person Interviewed Knock Be el; Green Prove. Hazen. Arkansas Age 79 v Yes maam I was born a slave, born in slavery times. I war born in Hardman County9 Tennessee* My own daddy was a Union soldier and my mama was a cook far tha mistress* Wa belonged to Hiss Viney and Br* Jim Mass, My daddy drawed a pension far bain a soldier till ha die* Ha went off to wait on some man he know. Then he sset some men wanted him to join tha army* They said then ha get paid and gat a bounty* No maam ha never got a red cant* He come back broke as he went off# He aay ha turned loose soon as he could and mustered out and laf them right now# He had no time to ax am no questions* That what he aaidl We stayed on that place till I was big nuf to do a days work* We had no other place to gc* There was plenty land and no stock* Houses to stay in got scarce* If a famtef had a place to stay at then that war ended ha counted hisself lucky I tell you* Heap of black an white jea ramlin round through tha woods an over the roads hunt in a little to eat or a little sumpin to do* If you stay in the field work in about puttin back the fences an round yo own house you wouldn't be hurt* v The Ku Kluzes war not hunt in work thairselvea* They was keepin order at tha gatherins and down the public roada* Folks had coma toted off all tha folks made in the crops till they donft call nuthin staalin* 2. ±36 They whooped em and made em ride on rails* I don't know all the car- rings on did take place• I sho would been scared if I seed em eomin to me* We left £tr# Mass and went to Grain, Tennessee* I had three sisters and half-brothers* I donft remember how many, some dead* I farmed all my life* Everybody said the land was so much better and newer out in Arkansas* Ihen I married I come to Tomberlin and worked fer Sem Dardnne bout twelve years* Then I rented from Jim Hicks at England* I rented frcn one of the Carlley boys and Jim Neelam* Vhen I very fust come here I worked at Helena on a farm one year* When I got my leg taken off it cost bout all I ever had emulated* I lives on my sister's place* Henry Bratcherfs wife out at Green Grove* The Wellfare give me $8 cause I caint get bout* vv I don9t know bout the times* It is so unsettled* Folks want work caint get it and some won't work that could* Tou caint get help so you can make a crop of your own no more, fer sometimes is close* f/ 30823 137 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Sophie D. Belle, Forrest City, Arkansas Age 77 HI was born near Knoxville, Georgia, liy raother was a professional - pastry cook, iahe was a house woman during slavery. She was owned by Lewis Hicks and Ann Hicks. They had Saluda, Mary, Lewis, and Oscar. "Mother was never sold. Mr. Hicks reared her* She was three-fourths Indian. Her father was George Hicks. Gordon carried him to Texas. Mr. Bob Gordon was mean. He askad lux. Hicks to keep mother and auntie while he went to Texas, llr. Gordon was so mean. Liy mother had two little girls but my sister died while small, nI never saw any one sold. I never saw a soldier. But I noticed the ^rown people whispering nany times. Liother explained ix to me, they had some news from, the War* Aunt Jane said she saw them, pass in gangs. I heard her say, rDid you see the soldiers pass early this morning?1 I was asleep. Sometimes I was out at play when they passed. "Master Hicks called us all up at dinner one day to the big house. He told us, 'You are free as I am.f I never had worked any then. No, they cried and went on to their homes. Aunt Jane was bad to speak out, she was so nuch Indian. She had three children. She went to another place to live. 8he was in search of her husband *~.nd thought he ni^ht be there at Ft* '/alley, "Mother stayed on another year* Mr. Hicks was good to us* None of the children ever worked till they was ten or twelve years old* 2, He had a lot of slaves and about twenty-five children on the place growing* He had just a big plantation. He had a special cook, -Aunt Mariah, to cook for the field hands. They eat like he did* Master Hicks would examine their buckets and a great big split basket * If they didnft have enough to eat he would have her cook more and send to them. They had nice victuals to eat* He had a bell to ring for all the children to be put to bed at sundown and they slept late* He said, fLet them grow.* Their diet was milk and bread and eggs* We had duck eggs, guinea eggs, goose eggs, and turkey eggs* nI do^t know what all the slaves had but mother had feather beds. They saved all kind of feathers to make pillows and bed and chair cushions* \ie always had a pet pig about our place* Master Hicks kept a drove of pea- fowls* He had cows, goats, sheep. We children loved the lambs. Elvira attended to the milk. She had sane of the girls and boys to milk* Uncle Dick, motherfs brother, was Mr, Hicks* coachman* He was raised on the place too. nI think Master Hicks and his family was French, but, though they were light-skin people. They had light hair too, I think* "One day a frenchman (white) that was* a doctor come to call* My Aunt Jane said to me, fHe is your papa* That is your papa.* I saw him many times after that. I am considered eight-ninth white race* Ony little girl up at the courthouse asked me a question and I told her she was too young to Know about such sin. (This girl was twenty-four years old and the case worker's stenographer*} Piaster Hicks had Uncle Patrick bury his silver and gold in the woods. It was in a trunk. The hair and hide uas still on the trunk when the Via? ceased. He used his money to pay the slaves that worked on his place after freedom. 138 3. ±39 "I went to school to a white man from January till Hay and mother paid him one dollar a month tuition. After I married I went to school three terms* I married quite young. Everyone did that far back* "I married at Aunt Jane's home* lie got married and had dinner at one or two oTclock* Very quiet* Only a few friends and my relatives* I wore a green wool traveling dress* It was trimmed in black velvet and black beads. I married in a hat* At about seven o'clock we went to my husbandTs home at Perry, Georgia. He o"»aied a new buggy* V/e rode thirty miles. We had a colored minister to marry us* He v/as a winter end a fine provider. He died. I had no children. nI cane to Forrest City 1874. There was three dry-goods and erocery stores and tv/o saloons here—five stores in all. I cone alone. Aunt Jane and Uncle Sol had migrated here* liy mother come with me. Triere was one railroad through here. I belong to the Baptist church. tfI married the second time at kuskogee, Oklahoma. luy husband lived out there. Ha was Indian-African. He was a Baptist'minister, lie never had any children* I never had a child. They tell me now if I had married dark men I would maybe had children* I married very lifcht men both times* "I washed and ironed, cooked and kept house. I sewed for the public, black and white. I washed and ironed for Mrs. Graham at Crockettsville twenty-three years and three months. I inherited a home here. Owned a home here in Forrest City once. I live with my cousin here* He uses that house for his stud;/. He is a Baptist minister* (The church is in front of their home—a very nice new brick church — ed*} Pm blind now or I could still sew, wash and iron some maybe* 4, 140 WI get eight dollars from the Social Welfare• I do my own cooking in the kitchen* I am seventy-seven years old* I try to live as good as my age* Svery year I try to live a little better, fA little sv/eeter as the years go by#r ff 30837 141 Interviewer Samuel S* Taylor Person interviewed Cyrus Bellas 1320 Pulaski Street*. Little Rock* Arkansas Age 75 "I was born in Mississippi in 1865 in Jefferson County* It was on the tenth of March* My father's name was Cyrus Bellus, the same as mine* My mother's name was Matilda Bellus* "My father's master was David Bunt* My father and mother both belonged to him* They had the same master* I don't know the names of my grandfather and mother* I think they were Jordans* No, I know my grand- mother's name was Annie Hall, and my grandfather's name was Stephen Hall* Those were my mother's grandparents* My father's father was named John Major and his mother was named Dinah Major* They belonged to the Hunts* I don't know why the names was different* I guess he wasn't their first master* Slave Sales, Whippings, Work "I have heard my folks talk about how they were traded off and how they used to have to work* Their master wouldn't allow them to whip his hands* No, it was the mistress that wouldn't allow them to be whipped* They had hot words about that sometimes* •The slaves had to weave cotton and knit soz* Sometimes they would work all night, weaving cloth* and spinning thread* The spinning would be done first* They would make cloth for all the hands on the place* "They used to have tanning vats to make shoes with too* Old master didn't know what it was to buy shoes* Had a man there to make them* 2. "My father and mother were both field hands* They didnft weave or spin* My grandmother on my mother1 s side did that* They were supposed to pick—the manf four hundred pounds of cotton, and the woman three hundred* -And that was git tin1 some cotton* If they didnft come up to the task, they was took out and give a whipping* The overseer would do the thrashing* The old mistress and master wouldn't agree on that whipping* Pun "The slaves were allowed to get out and have their fun and play and 'musement for so many hours* Outside of those hours, they had to be found in their house* They had to use fiddles* They had dancing just like the boys do now* They had knockin* and rasslln9 and all such like now* Church "So far as serving God was concerned, they had to take a kettle and turn it down bottom upward and then old master couldn't hear the singing and prayin1. I don't know just how they turned the kettle to keep the noise from golnY out* But I heard my father and mother say they did it* The kettle would be on the inside of the cabin, not on the outside* House, Furniture, Food "The slaves lived in log houses instead of ones like now with weather- boarding* The two ends duffed in* They always had them so they would hold a nice family* Never had any partitions to make rooms* It was just a straight long house with one window and one door* "Provisions were weighed out to them* They were allowed four pounds of meat and a peck of meal for each working person* 3* ±43 They only provided for the working folks* If I had eight in a family, I would just get the same amount# There was no provisions for child- ren* "But all the children on the place were given something from the big houseo The working folks ate their breakfast before daylight in the log cabin where they lived* They ate their supper at home too* They was allowed to get back home by seven or eight ofclock* The slaves on my place never ate together* I don't know anything about that kind of feeding* "They had nurses, old folks that weren't able to work any longer* All the children would go to the same place to be cared for and the old people would look after them* They wasn't able to work, you know* They fed the children during the day* How Freedom Came "My father and mother and grandmother said the overseer told them that they were free* I guess that was in 18651 the same year I was born* The overseer told them that they didn't have any owner now* They was free folks* The boss man told them too—had them to come up to the big house and told them they had to look out for themselves now because they were free as he was* Bigit After the War "Right after emancipation, my folks were freed* The boss man told them they could work by the day or aharecrop or they could work by groups* A group of folks could go together and work and the boss man would pay them so much a day* I believe they worked for him a good while—about seven or eight years at least* They was in one of the groups* 4. 144 Earliest Recollections "My own earliest recollections was of picking cotton in one of those squads—the groups I was telling you about# After that, the people got to renting land and renting stock for themselves* They sharecropped then* It seems to me that everybody was satisfied* I don't remember any one saying that he was cheated or beat out of anything* Schooling "We had a public school to open in Jefferson County, Mississippi* We called it Dobbins Bridge* There was a bridge about a mile long built across the creek* We had two colored women for teachers* Their names was Mary Howard and Hester Harris* They only used two teachers in that school* I attended there three years to those same two women* "We had a large family and I quit to help take care of it* Ku Klux "I donft think there was much disturbance from the Ku Klux on that plantation* The colored folks didn't take much part in politics* Later Life "I stopped school and went to work for good at about fifteen years* I worked at the field on that same plantation I told you about* I worked there for just about ten years* Then I farmed at the same place on shares* I stayed there till I was fbout twenty-six years old* Then I moved to Wilderness Place in the Cotton Belt in Mississippi* I farmed there for two years* "I farmed around Greenville, Mississippi for a while* Then I left Greenville and came to Arkansas* I came straight to Little Rock* 5- 145 The first thing I did I went into the lumber grading* I wasn't trained to it 9 but I went into it at the request of the men who employed me* I stayed in that eight years* I learned the lumber grading and checking* Cheeking is seeing the size and width and length and kind of lumber and seeing how much of it there is in a car without taking it out, you know* "I married about 1932* My wife is dead* We never had any children* "I havenft worked any now in five years* I have been to the hospital in the east end* I get old age assistance—eight dollars and commodities.* ,.-.«.^^* Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Bob Benford 209 N* Maple Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 79 " Slavery-^ ime folks? Herefs one of em* Near as I can get at it, Ifse seventy-nine, I was born in Alabama* My white folks said I come from Perry County, Alabama, but I come here to this Arkansas country when I was small* nUy old master was Jim Ad Benford* He was good to us* Ifm goinf to tell you we was better off then than now* Yes ma'am, they treated us rights We didn't have to worry bout payin1 the doctor and had plenty to eat. "I recollect the shoemaker come and measured my feet and directly he'd bring me old red russet shoes* I thought they was the prettiest things I ever saw in my life* "Old mistress would say, fCome on here, you little niggers1 and shefd sprinkle sugar on the meat block and wefd just lick sugar* *I remember the soldiers good, had on blue suits with brass buttons* "I'se big enough to ride old master's hoss to water* Hefd say, fNow, Bob, donft you run that hoss1 but when I got out of sight, I was bound to run that hoss a little* "I didn't have to work, just stayed in the house with my mammy* She was a seamstress* I'm tellin' you the truth now* I can tell it at night as well as daytime* ••We lived in Union County* Old master had a lot of hands* Old mistress1 name was Miss Sallie Benford* She just as good as she could be* She'd come out to the quarters to see how we was gettin' along* 146 2. ±47 I'd be so glad when Christmas came* Wefd have hog killin' and Ifd get the bladders and blow em up to make noise — you know* Yes, lady, wef d have a time* ^ "I recollect when Marse Jim broke up and went to Texas* Stayed there h& i' bout a year and come back* "IShen the war was over I recollect they said we was free but I didn't know what that meant * I was always free* "After freedom mammy stayed there on the place and worked on the shares* I don't know nothin1 bout my father* They said he was a white man* "I remember I was out in the field with mammy and had a old mule* I punched him with a stick and he come back with them hoofs and kicked me right in the jaw — knocked me dead* lord, lady, I had to eat mush till I donft like mush today. That was old Moss ~ he was a saddle mule* "Me? I ainft been to school a day in my life* If I had a chance to go I didn't know it* I had to help mammy work* I recollect one time when she was sick I got into a fight and she cried and said, fThat's the way you does my child' and I know she died next week* "After that I worked here and there* . I remember the first man I worked for was Kinch McKinney of El Dorado* "I remember when I was just learnin' to plow, old mule knew five hundred times more than I did* He was graduated and he learnt me* "I made fifty-seven crops in my lifetime* Me and Hance Chapman — he was my witness when I married ~> we made four bales that year* That was in 1879* His father got two bales and Hance and me got two* I made money every year* Yes ma'am, I have made some money in my day* When I moved from Louisiana to Arkansas I sold one hundred eighty acres of land and three hundred head of hogs* I come up here cause my chillun was here and my wife wrf 3. wanted to coma here* You know how people will stroll when they get grown* Lost everything I had* Bought a little farm here and they wouldn't let me raise but two acres of cotton the last year I farmed and I couldn't make my payments with that* Made me plow up some of the prettiest cotton I ever saw and I never got a cent for it* "Lady, nobody don't know how old people is treated nowdays* Bat Ifm livin1 and I thank the Lord* Pm so glad the Lord sent you here, lady* - I been once a man and twice a child* You know when you're tellin1 the truth, you can tell it all the time* *Klu Klux? The Lord have mercy* In '74 and '75 saw em but never was bothered by a white man in my life* Never been arrested and never had a lawsuit in my life* I can go down here and talk to these officers any time* "Yes ma'am, I used to vote* Never had no trouble* I don't know what ticket I voted* le just voted for the man we wanted* Used to have colored men on the grand jury « half and half — and then got down to one and then knocked em all out* "I never done no public work in my life but when you said farmin' you hit me then* "Nother thing I never done* I bought two counterpins once in my life on the stallments and ain't never bought nothin' since that way* Yes ma'am, I got a bait of that stallment buying* That's been forty years ago* "I know one time when I was livin* in Louisiana, we had a teacher named Arvin Nichols* He taught there seventeen years and one time he passed some white ladies and tipped his hat and went on and fore sundown they had him arrested* Some of the white men who knew him went to court and said what had he done, and they cleared him right away* That was in the '80's in Marion, Louisiana, in Union Parish** 30757 •\ 'ty ' Interviewer________________Miss Irene Robertson_______________ Person interviewed Carrie Bradley Logan Bennet, Helena, Arkansas Age 79 plus ±49 "I was born not a great piece from Mobile but it was in Mississippi in the country. My mother b'long to Massa Tom Logan. He was a horse trader* He got drowned in 1863—durin* of the War, the old war. His wife was Miss Liza Jane* They had several children and some gone from home I jus1 seed when they be on visits home. The ones at home I can recollect was Tiney, John, Bill, and Alex* I played wid Tiney and nursed Bill and Alex was a baby when Massa Tom got drowned* "We never knowed how Massa Tom got drowned. They brought him home and buried him. His horse come homeo He had been in the water, water was froze on the saddle* They said it was water soaked. They thought he swum the v branch. Massa Tom drunk some. We never did know what did happen. I didnft know much fbout fem* "He had two or three families of slaves* Ma cooked, washed and ironed for all on the place* She went to the field in busy times* Three of the men drove horses, tended to rem* They fed fem and curried and sheared 'em* Ma said Massa Tom sure thought a heap of his niggers and fine stock* They'd bring in three or four droves of horses and mules, care fer fem, take fem out sell fem. They go out and get droves, feed fem up till they looked like different from what you see come there* Hefd sell fsm in the early part of the year. He did make money. I know he muster* My pa was the head black- smith on Massa Tomfs place, them other men helped him along. s* lfI heard ma say no better hearted man ever live than Massa Tom if you ketch him sober. He give his men a drink whiskey 'round every once in awhile. I donft know what Miss Liza Jane could do fbout it. She never done nothin* as ever I knowed. They sent apples off to the press and all of us drunk much cider when it come home as we could hold and had some long as it lasts. It turn to vinegar. I heard my pa laughing fbout the time Massa Tom had the Blue Devil3. He was pfisoned well as I understood it. It master been on whiskey and something else. I never knowed it. His men had to take keer of fem. He acted so much like he be crazy they laughed fbout tilings he do. He got over it. "Old mistress~—we all called her Miss Liza Jane—whooped us v/hen she wanted to. She brush us all out wid the broom, tell us go build a play houseo Children made the prettiest kinds of play houses them days* We made the walls outer bark sometimes. We jus1 narked it off on the ground out back of the smokehouse? Vefd ride and bring up the cows. We'd take the meal to a mill. It was the best hoecake bread can be made* It was water ground meal. "We had a plenty to eat, jus1 common'eatin1. ffe had good cane molasses all the tine* The clothes was thin fbout all time 'ceptin' when they be new and stubby. Me got new clothes in the fall of the year. They last till next year. "I never seed Massa Tom whoop nobody. I seen Miss Liza Jane turn up the little children*s dresses and whoop fem with a little switch, and straws, and her hand. She fmost blister you wid her bare hand. Plenty things we done to get whoopinfs. VJe leave the gates open; we'd run the calves and try to ride Tem; we'd chunk at the geese* One thing that make her so road was for us to climb up in her fruit trees and break off a limb. i 150 3* She wouldn't let us be eating the green fruit mostly 'cause it would make us sick* They had plenty trees* Hie had plenty fruit to eat when it was ripe* Llassa Tomfs little colored boys have big ears* He'd pull fem every time he pass one of fem. He didnft hurt 'em but it might have made their ears stick out* They all had big ears. He never slapped nobody as ever I heard fbout* nI don't know how my parents was sold. I'm sure they was sold. Pa's name was Jim Bradley (Bradly)* He come from one of the Carolinas* Ma was brought to Mississippi from Georgia. All the name I heard fer her was Ella Logan. When freedom come on, I heard pa say he thought he stand a chance to find his folks and them to find him if he be called Bradley* He did find some of his brothers, and ma had some of her folks out in Mississippi* They come out here hunting places to do better. They wasn't no Bradleys* I was little and I don't recollect their names* Seem lack one family we called Aunt Mandy Thornton* One was Aunt Tillie and Uncle Mack* They wasn't Thorntons. I knows that* "My folks was black, black as I is. Pa was stocky, guinea man. Ma was heap the biggest* She was rawbony and tall* I love to see her wash* She could bend 'round the easier ever I seed anybody. She could beat the clothes in a hurry* She put out big washings, on the bushes and a cord they wove and on the fences* They had paling fence ' round the garden* "Massa Tom didn't have a big farm. He had a lot of mules and horses at times* They raised some cotton but mostly corn and oats. Miss Liza Jane left b'fore us* Vie all cried when she left* She shut up the house and give the women folks all the keys* Vie lived on what she left there and went on raising more hogs and tending to the cows* We left everything. We come to Kernando, Mississippi* Pa farmed up there and run his blacksmith shop on the side* My parents died close to Horn Lake* Mama was the mother of ten 4* and I am the mother of eight* I got two living, one here and one in Memphis* I lives wid fem and one niece in Watchez I live with some* "I was scared to death of the Ku Klux Klan* They come to our house one night and I took my little brother and we crawled under the house and got up in the fireplace* It was big fnough fer us to sit* We went to sleep* We crawled out next day. We seen fem coming, run behind the house and crawled under there* They knocked about there a pretty good while* He told the- folks about it. I donft know where they could er been* I forgot it been so long* I was 'fraider of the Ku Klux KLan den I ever been fbout snakes* No snakes 'bout our house* Too many of us* "I tried to get some aid when it first come fbout but I quit* My children and my niece take keer er me* I ainft wantin1 fer nothin' but good health* I never do feel good* I done wore out. I worked in the field all my life* WA heap of dis young generation is triflin' as they can be* They don't half work* Some do work hard and no 'pendence to be put in some fem* 'Course they steal 'fo' dey work* I say some of fem work* Times done got so fer fhead of me I never ' speck to ketch- up* I never was scared of horses* I sure is dese automobiles* I ain't plannin' no rides on them airplanes* Sure you born I ain't* Polks ainft acting lack they used to* They say so I got all I can get you can do dout. It didn't used to be no sich way* Times is heap better but heap of folks is worse 'an ever folks been before#w 153 Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person interviewed George Benson Bzell garters, Pine Blufff Arkansas Age 80 Occupation____________Cotton Farmer______ 99I was here in slavery days — yes ma'm, I was here* When I come hare, colored people didn't have their ages* The boss man had it* After surrender, boss man told me I ought to keep up with my age, itfd be a use to me sobs day, but I didnft do it* "I member the soldiers would play with me when they wasnft on duty* That was the Yankees* *I was born down here on Dr* Waters9 place* Born right here in Arkansas and ain't been outa Arkansas since I was born* So far as I know, Dr. Waters was good to us* I don't know how old I was* I know I used to go to the house with my mother and piddle around* "My father jlned the Yankees and he died in the army* I heered the old people talkin9, sayin9 we was goinf to be free* You know I didnft have much sense cause I was down on the river bank and the Yankees was shootin1 across the river and I said, 'John, you quit that shootin92f So you know I didn't have much sense* "I can remember old man Curtaindall had these nigger dogs* Had to go up a tree to keep em from bitin9 you* Dr* Waters would have us take the cotton ahd hide it in the swamp to keep the Yankees from burain' it but they'd find it some way* 2. 154 "Never went to school over two months in all ay goin's* We always lived in a place kinda unhandy to go to school* First teacher I had was named Mr* Bell* I think he was a northern man* "All my life I been farmin1 — still do* Been many a day since I sold a bale a cotton myself* White man does the ginnin' and packin' * All I do is raise it* I'm farmin1 on the shares and I think if I raise four bales I ought to have two bales to sell and boss man two bales, but it ain't that \ way* "I voted ever since I got to be a man grown* That Is — as long as I could vote* You know — got so now they won't let you vote* I don't think a person is free unless he can vote, do you? The way this thing is go in1, I don't thizik the white man wants the colored man to have as much as the white man* "When I could vote, I jus' voted what they told me to vote* Oh Lord* yes, I voted for Garfield* I'se quainted with him — I knowed his name* Let's see — Powell Clayton — was he one of the presidents? I voted for him* And I voted for HcKinley* I think he was the last one I voted for* "I been farmin' all my life and what have I got? Nothin'* Old age pension? I may be in glory time I get it and then what would become of my wife?" 0 ¦** 30740 155 Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Kato Benton Creed Taylor Place f Tamo Pike Age 78 Pine Bluff, Arkansas "I was born in South Carolina before the War* I ain't no baby* I wasn't raised here* No ma'am* "My daddy's name was Chance Ayers and my mammy's name was Mary Ayers* So I guess the white folks was named Ayers* "Shite folks was good to us* Had plenty to eat, plenty to wear, plenty to drink. That was water* Didn't have no whisky* Might a had some but they didn't give us none* "Oh, yes ma'am, I got plenty kin folks* Oh, yes ma'am, I wish I was back there but I can't get back* I been here so long I likes Arkansas now*, "My mammy give me away after freedom and I ain't seed her since* She give me to a colored man and I tell you he was a devil untied* He was so mean I run away to a white man's house* But he come and got me and nearly beat me to death* Then I run away again and I ain't seed him since# "I had a hard time comin' up in this world but I'm livin' yet, somehow or other* "I didn't work in no field much* I washed and ironed and cleaned up the house for the white folks* Yes ma'ami "No ma'am, I ain't never been married in my life* I been ba'chin'* I get along so fine and nice without marryin'* I never did care anything 'bout that* I treat the women nice—-speak to 'em, but just let 'em pass on by* 2* "I never went to school in my life* Hever learned to read or write* If I had went to school, maybe Ifd know more than I know now* "These young folks comin1 on is pretty rough# I don't have nothin' to do with 'em—they is too rougji for me* They is a heap wuss than they was in my day—some of fenu *I gets along pretty well# The VIelfare gives me eight dollars a month*" 156 f J z. My mother-in-law was married three times* She had a slavery husband named Nathan Moseby* After he died she married Abe Ware# Then he died* She married Mitchell Black and he died long before she died* She was ninety- two years old when she died and could outdo me till not but a few years ago* Her strength left her all at once* She lived on then a few years* "She always told me Master Mann's folks was very good to her* She said she never remembered getting a whooping* But then she was the best old thing I ever seen in my life. She was really good* "One story she tole more than others was: Up at Des Arc country the Yankees come and made them give up their something-to-eat# Took and wasted together• Drunk up their milk and it turning, (blinky—ed#h Shefd laugh at that* They kept their groceries in holes in the ground* The Yankees jumped on the colored folks to make them tell where was their provision* Some of them had to tell where some of it was* They was scared* They didn't tell where it all was* "When they went to Des Arc and the gates was closed they had to wait till next day to get their provisions* They had to start early to get back out of the pickets before they closed*" 167 30314 168 ¦Vi %n*! INTERVIES WITH EX-SLAVES Name of Interviewer Name of Ex-Slave___ Residence Beulah Sherwood Hagg Boston Blackwell Age 98 520 Plum, North Little Rock Story told by Boston Blackwell Make yourself comfoble, miss. I can't see you much fcause my eyes, they is dim. My voice, it kinder dim too. I knows my age, good. Old Miss, she told me when I got sold - "Boss, you is 13 - bomed Christmas. Be sure to tell your new misses and she put you down in her book.* My borned name was Pruitt fcause I got bomed on Robert Pruitt's plantation in Georgia, - Franklin County, Georgia. But Blackwell, it my freed name. You see, miss, after my mammy got sold down to Augusta - I wisht I could tell you the man what bought her, I ainTt never seed him since, - I was sold to go to Arkansas; Jefferson county, Arkansas. Then was when old Miss telled me I am 13. It was before the Civil War I come here. The onliest auction of slaves I ever seed was in Memphis, coming on to Arkansas. I heerd a girl bid off for $800. She was about fifteen, I reckon. I heerd a woman - a breeding woman, bid off for #1500. They always brought good money. Ifm telling you, it was when w« was coming from Atlanta. Do you want to hear how I runned away and jined the Yankees? You know Abraham Lincoln fclaired freedom in ?63, first day of January. In October f63, I runned away and went to Pine Bluff to get to the Yankees* 2. 169 I was on the ELackwell plantation south of Pine Bluff in f63. They was building a new house; I wanted to feel some putty in my hand. One early morning I dim a ladder to get a little chunk and the over- seer man, he seed me. Here he come, yelling me to get down; he gwine whip me 'cause Ifse a thief, he say. He call a slave boy and tell him cut ten wilier whips; he gwine wear every one out on me. When he's gone to eat breakfas', I runs to my cabin and tells my sister, "I'se leaving this here place for good.* She cry and say, Overseer man, he kill you." I says, "He kill me anyhow." The young boy what cut the whips - he named Jerry - he come along wif me, and we wade the stream for long piece. Heerd the hounds a-howling, getting ready for to chase after us. Then we hide in dark woods. It was cold, frosty weather. Two days and two nights we traveled. That boy, he so cold and hongry, he want to fall out by the way, but I drug him on. When we gets to the Yankee camp all our troubles was over. We gets all the contraband we could eat. Was they more run-aways there? Oh, Lordy, yessum. Hundreds, I reckon. Yessum, the Yankees feeds all them refugees on contraband. They made me a driver of a team in the quatemasters department. I was always keerful to do everything they telled me. They telled me I was free when I gets to the Yankee camp, but I couldn't go outside much. Yessum, if fen you could get to the Yankee's camp you was free right now. That old story fbout 40 acres and a mule, it make me laugh. Yessum, they sure did tell us that, but I never knowed any pusson which got it. The officers telled us we would all get slave pension. 3- 170 That just exactly what they tell. They sure did tell me I would get a passel (parcel) of ground to farm. Nothing ever hatched out of that, neither^ When I got to Pine Bluff I stayed contraband. When the battle come, Captain Manly carried me down to the battle ground and I stay there till fighting was over. I was a soldier that day, Wo1urn, I didn't shoot no gun nor cannon. I carried water from the river for to put out the fire in the cotton bales what made the breas*works. Every time the fFederates shoot, the cotton, it come on fire; so after the battle, they transfer me back to quartemaster for driver. Captain Dodridge was his name. I served in Little Rock under Captain Haskell* I was swored in for during the war (Boston held up his right hand and repeated the words of allegiance). It was on the corner of Main and Markham street in Little Rock I was swored in. Year of '64. I was 5 feet, 8 inches high. You says did I like living in the army? Yes- sum, it was purty good. Iffen you obeyed them Yankee officers they treated you purty good, but iffen you didnft, they sure went rough on you. You says you wants to know how I live after soldiers all go away? Well, firstes thing, I work on the railroad. They was just beginning to come here. I digged pits out, going along front of where the tracks was to go. Kow much I get? I get #L.OO a day. You axes me how it seem to eai*n money? Lady, I felt like the richess man in the world! I boarded with a white fambly. Always I was a watching for my slave pension to begin coming. fFore I left the army my captain, he telled me to file. 4. My file number, it is 1,115,857. After I keeped them papers for so many years, white and black folks bofe telled me it ainft never com- ing - my slave pension - and I reckon the chilren tored up the papers? Lady, that number for me is filed in Washington. Iffen you go there, see can you get my pension. After the railroad I went steamboating. First one was a little one-; they call her Fort Smith fcause she go frum Little Rock to Fort Smith. It was funny, too, her captain was name Smith. Captain Eugene Smith was his name. He was good, but the mate was sure rough. What did I do on that boat? Missy, was you ever on a river boat? Lordy, theyfs plenty to do. Never is no time for rest. Load, onload, scrub. Just you do whatever you is told to do and do it right now, and you'll keep outen trouble, on a steamboat, or a railroad, or in the army, or wherever you is. Thatfs what I knows. Yessum, I reckon they was right smart old masters what didnft want to let they slaves go after freedom. 'They hated to turn them loose. Just let them work on. Heap of them didn't know freedom come. I used to hear tell how the govmint had to send soldiers away down in the far back country to make them turn the slaves loose. I canft tell you how all them free niggers was living; I was too busy looking out for myself. Heaps of them went to farming. They was share croppers. Yessum, miss, them Ku-Kluxers was turrible, - what they done to people. Oh, God, they was bad. They come sneaking up and runned you outen your house and take everything you had. They was rough on the women and chilren. 5. People all wanted to stay close by vfhere soldiers was* I sure knowed they was my friend. Lady, leirnne tell you the rest about when I runned away. After peace, I got with my sister* She's the onliest of all my people I ever seed again. She telled me she was skeered all that day, she couldn't work, she shake so bad. She heerd overseer man getting ready to chase me and Jerry. He saddle his horse, take his gun and pistol, bofe. He gwine kill me en sight, but Jerry, he say he bring him back, dead er alive, tied to his horse's tail. But he didn't get us, Ha, Ha, Ha. Yankees got us. Now you wants to know about this voting business. I voted for Genral Grant. Army men come around and registered you before voting time. It wasn't no trouble to vote them days; white and black all voted together. All you had to do v/as tell who you was vote for and they give you a colored ticket. All the men up had different colored tickets. Iffen you're voting for Grant, you get his color. It was easy. Yes Mam! Gol 'er mighty. They v/as colored men in office, plenty. Colored legislaturs, and colored circuit clerks, and colored county clerks. They sure was some big officers colored in them times* They was all my friends. This here used to be a good county, but I tell you it sure is tough now. I think it's wrong - exactly wrong that we can't vote now. The Jim Crow lav/, it put us out* The Constitu- tion of the United States, it give us the right to vote; it made us citizens, it did* 6. 173 You just keeps on asking about me, lady* I ainTt never been axed about myself in my whole lifej Now you wants to know after rail- roading and steamboating what* They was still work the Yankee army wanted done. The war had been gone for long time. All over every place was bodies buried* They was bringing them to Little Rock to put in Govraint graveyard* They sent me all over the state to help bring them here. Major Forsythe was my quarteraaster then. After that was done, they pat me to work at St. John's hospital* The work I done there liked to ruin me for life. I cleaned out the water closets. After a while I took down sick from the work - the scent, you know - but I keep on till I get so for gone I can't stay on my feets no more* A misery got roe in the chest, right here, and it been with me all through life; it with me now. I filed for a pension on this ailment. I never did get it. The Govmint never took care of me like it did some soldiers* They said I was not a ?listed man; that I was a employed man, so I couldn't get no pension. But I filed, like they told me* I telled you my number, didn't I? 1,115,827, Boston Blackwell. I give my whole tine to the Govmint for nany years* White and black bofe always telling ne I should have a pension* I stood on the battlefield just like other soldiers* My number is in Washington* Major Forsythe was the one what signed it, riglit in his office* I seed him write it* Then what did I do? You always asking me that. I was low er long time. When I finally get up I went to farming right here in Pulaski county. Lordy, no, miss, I didn't buy no land* Nothing to buy with* 7, I went share cropping with a white man, Col. Baucum. You asking me what was the shares? Worked on halvers. I done all 'the work and fed myself. No'um, I wasn't married yit. I took the rheumatiz in my legs, and got short winded. Then I was good for nothing but picking cotton. I kept on with that till my eyes, they got so dim I couldn't see to pick the rows clean. Heap oftimes I needed medicine - heap oftimes I needed lots of things I never could get. Iffen I could of had some help when I been sick, I mought not be so no account now. My daughter has taked keer of me ever since I not been able to work no more. I never did live in no town; always been a country nigger. I always worked for white folks, nearly. Never mixed up in big crowds of colored; stayed to myself. I never been arrested in my whole life; I never got jailed for nothing. What else you want to know, Miss? About these days, and the young folks! Well, I ainft saying about the young folks; but they — no, I wouldn't say. (He eyed a boy working with a saw.} Well, I will say, they don't believe in hard work. Iffen they can make a living easy, they will. In old days, I was young and didn't have nothing to worry about. These days you have to keep studying where you going to get enough to eat. ,]0594 #754 Interviewer Samuel S* Tayler Person Interviewed Henry KLake Bear of 1300 Scott Street, Little Rock, Arkansas Age 80. or nor* Occupation Panning and funk, when able A— ^tf / fy/ "I was bom March 16, 1863, they tell ne« I was born in Arkansas right down here on Tenth and Spring Streets in Little Rock* That was all woods then* We children had to go in at night* Tou could hear the wolves and the bears and things* We had to make a big fire at night to keep the wolves and varmints away* "My father was a skiffman* He used to cross the Arkansas River in a ferry-boat* My father*a name was Doc HLake* And ny mother's name was Hannah Williams before she married* "My father's mother's name was Susie some thin'; I done forgot* That is too far back for me* My mother's mother was named Susie—Susie Williams* "My father's master was named Jim Paty* My father was a slavery man* I was too* I used to drive a horsepower gin wagon in slavery time* That was at Pastoria just this side of Pine Bluff—about three or four miles this side* Paty had two places—one about four miles from Pine Bluff and the other about four miles from England on the river* "When I was driving that horsepower gin wagon, I was about seven or eight years old* There wasn't nothin' hard about it* Just hitch the mules to one another's tail and drive them 'round and 'round* There wasn't no lines* Just hitch them to one another's tail and tell them to git up* You'd pull a lever when you wanted them to stop* The mule wasn't hard to manage* 175 2* "We ginned two or three bales of cotton a day* We ginned all the summer* It would be June before we got that cotton all ginned* Cotton brought thirty-five or forty cents a pound then* •I was treated nicely* My father and mother were too* Others were not treated so well* Bit you know how Negroes la* They would slip off and go out* If they caught them, he would put them in a log hut they had for a jail* If you wanted to be with a woman, you would have to go to your boss man and ask him and he would let you go* "My daddy waa sold for five hundred dollars—put on the block, up on a stump—they called it a block* Jim Paty sold him* I forget the name of the man he was aold to—Watts, I think it was* "After slavery we had to get in before nig^it too* If you didnftf Kn KLuz would drive you in* They would come and visit you anyway* They had something on that they could pour a lot of water in* They would serai to be drinking the water and it would all be going in this thing* They was git tin1 it to water the horaes with, and when they got away from you they would stop and give it to the horses* When he got you good and scared he would drive on away* They would whip you if they would catch you out in the nlgit time* «Uy daddy had a horse they couldnft catch* It would run right away from you* My daddy trained it so that it would run away from any one who would come near it* He would take me up on that horse and we would sail away* Those Ku KLux couldn9t catch him* They never did catch him* They caught many another one and whipped him* My daddy was a pretty mean man* He carried a gun and he had shot two or three men* Those were bad times* I got scared to go out with him* I hated that business* But directly it got over with* It got over with *hen a lot of the Ku ELux was killed up* 176 17 H-^r^ *In slavery time they would raise children just like you would raise colts to a mare or calves to a cow or pigs to a sow* It was just a business* It was a bad thing* But it was better than the county farm* They dldnft whip you if you worked* Out there at the county farm, they bust you open* They bust you up till you can9t work* Therefs a lot of people down at the state farm at Cunmins-~-thatfs where the farm is ainft it—that's raw and bloody* They wouldn't let you come down there and write no history* No Lawdl You better not try it* One half the world don't know how the other half lives* I'll tell you one thing, if those Catholics could get control there would be a good time all over this world* The Catholics are good folks* "That gang that got after you if you let the sun go down while you were out—thatfs called the Paterolee* Same folks call 'em the Xn Xlux* It was all the same old poor white trash* They kept up that business for about ten years after the War* They kept it up till folks began to kill up a lot of 9em* That9a the only thing that stopped them* My daddy used to make his own bullets* •I9ve forgot who it is that told us that we was free* Somebody ees&e and told us we9re free now* I done forgot who it was* "Right after the War, my father famed a while and after that he pulled a skiff* You know Jim Lawsonfs place* He stayed on it twenty years* He stayed at the Ferguson place about ten years* They9re adjoining places* He stayed at the Churchill place* Widow Scott place, the Bojean place* That's all* Have you been down in Argenta to the Roundhouse? Churchill9s place runs way down to there* It wasn't nothing but faxms in Little Rock then* The river road was the only one there at that time* It would take a day to come down from dear Lake with the cotton* *• 178 You would start f round about Midnight and you would get to Argenta at nine o'clock the next morning* The roads was always bad* "After freedom, we worked on shares a while* Then we rented* then we worked on shares9 we couldnvt make nothing—just overalls and something to eat* Half went to the other man and you would destroy your half if you weren't careful* A man that didn't know how to count would always lose* He might lose anyhow* They didn't give no itemized statement* No, you just had to take their woz^* They never give you no details* They just say you owe so much* No matter how good account you kept, you had to go by their account and now, Brother, I'm tellin' you the truth about this* It's been that way for a long tins* You had to take the white man's work on notes and every- thing* Anything you wanted, you could git if you were a good hand* You could git anything you wanted as long as you worked* If you didn't mate no money, that's all right; they would advance you more* But you better not leave him—you better not try to leave and get caught* They'd keep you in debt* They were sharp* Christmas come, you could take up twenty dollars in somethin' to eat and much as you wanted in whiskey* You could buy a gallon of whiskey* Anything that kept you a slave because he was always right and you were always wrong if there wae difference* If there was an argument, he would get mad and there would be a shooting take place* *And you know how some Negroes is* Long as they could git somethin', they didn't care* You see, if the white man came out behind, he would feed you, let you have what you wanted* He'd juat keep you on, help you get on your feet~~that is, if you were a good hand* But if you weren't a good hand, he'd just let you have enough to keep you alive* A good hand could take care of forty or fifty acres of land and would have a large fam- ily* A good hand could git clothes, food, whiskey, whenever he wanted it* 5. My father had nine children and took care of them* Hot all of them by one wife* He was married twice* He was married to one in slavery time and to another after the War* I was a child of the first one* I got a sister still living down here in Galloway station that is mighty nigh ninety years old* No, she must be a hundred* Her name is Frances Dobbins* When you git ready to go down there, I111 tell you how to find that place jus1 like I told you how to fin9 this one* Galloway is only 9bout four miles from Rose City* "I been married twice in my life* My first woman, she died* The second ladyf she is still living* We dissolved friendship in 1913* Least-* wise, I walked out and give her my hone* I used to own a home at twenty- first and Pulaski* *I belong to the Baptist Church at Wrightsville* I used to belong to Arch Street* Was a deacon there for about twelve years* But they had too much splittin9 and go in1 on and I got out* I911 tell you more sometime** Interviewer1 s Gooment Henry Blake fs age appears in excess of eighty* His idea of seventy*- five is based on what someone told him* He is certain that he drove a "Horsepower Gin Wagon11 during "slavery times*t and that he was seven or eight when he drove it* Even if that were in f65f he would be at least eighty years old—seventy-three years since the War plus seven years of his life* His manner of narration would indicate that he drove earlier* The Interview was held in a dark roomf and for the first time in my life I took notes without seeing the paper on which I was writing* -80325 Interviewer_____Mary D« Hud gins________________ Person Interviewed Miss Adeline Blakeley Age 87 Eone 101 Hock street* Fayettevillef Arkansas• 'Hi ere is no hint of elision in the speech of Adeline Blakeley, scarcely a trace of vernacular, All of her life her associations have been with white persons* She occupies a position, rare in post-slavery days, of he^ro servant, confidant and friend* After the death of I."rs* Eudgins, family intimates, wives of physicians, bankers1, vjives and other Fayetteville dowagers continued •periodically to come to see Adeline* They came not in the spirit of Lady Bountifuls condescending to a hireling, hut because they wanted to chat with, an old time friend* Interviewer*s note* 181 Adeline Blakeley LI*D* Eud^ins As told by: Adeline Blakeley "Honey, look in the tible to get the date when I was born* \"e want to i ave it just right* Yes, here's the place, read it to me. July 10, 1850 ? Yes, I remember now, that's what theyTve always told me* I wanted to be sure, though* I was born in Hickman County, '^emii and was about a year when they brought me to Arkansas* I'j mother and her people had been bought by hx* John P. Parks when they were .just children---- John and Leanna and hartha* I was the first little nfegro in the Parks kitchen* From the first they made a pet out of me* I was little like a doll 'and they treated me like a plaything--------spoiled me------rotten* After ?;r* Parks came to Arkans<--^ he lived near what is now Prarie Grove, but what do you think it was called t.;en-------Hog 2ye* Later on they named it Hillingsley for a man who settled there* \!e were two miles out on tee ;;ire Hoad, the one the telegraph line cone in on honey* Almost every oommunity had a *V/ire Road', Adeline Blakeley M.D. Hudgins» It was the custom to give a girl a slave when she was married* When Miss Parks became i£rs. Blakeley she moved to Fayetteville and chose me to take with her* She said since I was only 5 she could raise me as she wanted me to be» But I must have been a lot of trouble and after she had her baby she had to send me back to her father to grow up a little. For you might say she had two babies to take oare of since I was too little to take care of hers. They sent a woman in my plaoe* Honey, when I got back, I was awfull I had been with the negroes down in the country and said *hitf and •hain't* and words like that. Of course all the children in the house took it up from me. Mrs. Blakeley had to teach me to talk right. Your Aunt Nora was born while I - was away. I was too little to take full charge of her, but I could sit in a chair and hold her on my lap* Mrs. Blakeley taught her children et home. Eer teaching was almost all they had before they entered the University* When I was little I wanted to learn, learn all I could, but there was a law against teaching a slave to read and »rite« One woiaan----she was from the North did it anyway. But when folks can read and write its going to be found out. It was made pretty hard for that woman* Adeline Blakeley Mary D. Hudgins After the war they tried to get me to learn, but I tossed my head and wouldn't let them teach me. I was about 15 and thought I was grown and wouldn't need to know any more. Mary, it sounds funny, but if I had a million dollars I would give it gladly to be able to read and write letters to my friends. I remember well when the war started. Mr. Blakeley* he was a cabinet maker and not very well, was not considered strong enough to go. But if the war had kept up much / longer they would have called him. Mr. parks didn't believe in seceding. He held out as long as it was safe to do so» If you didn't go with the popular side they called you 'Abolitionist* or Liaybe ' Submission!st'» But when Arkansas did go over he was loyal. He had two sons and a son-in-law in the Confederate army. One fought f at Richmond and one was killed at Getysburg* The little Blakeley boy had always like-d to play with the American flag. He'd march with it and carry it out on the porch and hang it up. But after the trouble began to brew his mother told him he would have to stay in the house when he played with the flag* Even then somebody saw him and scolded him and said 'Either burn it 184 Adeline Blakeley K#D# Hudgins or wash it#r The child thought they meant it and he oried to wash it* Dyes weren't so good in those days and it ran terribly© It was the awfulest thing you ever saw* Fayetteville suffered all thru the war, you see we| were not very far from the aividing line and-both armies were about here a lot. The Fe erals were in charge most of the time. They had a Pest heref set up breast works and fortified the square. The court house was in the middle of it then. It was funny that there wasnft more real fighting about he.-e* There were several battles but they were more like skirmishes---just a few men killed each time. They were terrible just the same* At first they buried the Union soldiers where the confederate /emetery is now. The Southerners were placed-just anywhere* Later on they moved the northern caskets over to where the Federal Cemetery is now and they took up the Southern men when they knc where uo find them and placed them over on the hill where they are today* Once an officer came into o,;r home and liked a table he s2Wf so he took it* :.!rs* Elakeley followed his horse as far as she could pleading with him to give it back because her husband had made it* The next d3y a neighbor returned it. He hod found it in the road and recognized it. The :;:an who stole it hed been killed and dropped it as he fell* 185 6 Adeline Blakeley M*D. Hud gins 4 I Just before the Battle of Prarie Grove the Feaeral A men came thru* Some officers stopped and wanted us to cook for them. Paid us well, too. One man took little Nora on his lap and almost cried. lie said she reminded him of his own little girl hefd mayhe never see again. lie gave her a cute little ivory handled pen knife. lie asked i;rs. Blakeley if he couldn't leave his oistols with her until he came back thru Fayetteville. She told him it was asking too much, whet would happen to her and her family if they found those weapons in her possession ? But he argued that it was only for a few days. 3he hid them under a tub in the basement and after waiting a year g& e them to her brother v;hen he came through• The Yankees met the Southerners at Prarie Grove. The shots sounded just like A popcorn from here in Fayetteville. We always though the ~ian got killed there. The soldiers camped all around everywhere. Lots of them were in tents and some of the officers were in houses* They didnft burn the college--where Ihiss Sawyer had taught, you know. The officers used it for their living quarters. They built barracks.for the men of upright logs* 3* e that building across a* the street. Itfs been lots of things, a livery stable, vetAnary A barn, apartment house. But it was one of the oldest bui dings in 4j?kansas# Theyfve kept on remodeling it* The Yankees made a commissary out of it. Later on they moved the food up on the square and used it for a hospital, I can remember lots of times seeing the feet of dead men sticking out of the windows* Your Aunt Nora*s mother saved that building from being burned. How did it happen ? Well you see both sides were firing buildings------the Confederates to keep the Yankees from getting them, and the other way about. But the southerners did most of the burning* 2£rs. Elakeley's little boy was sick with fever. She and a friend went up, because they feared burnings. They sat there almost all night. Parties of men would come along and they would plead with them. One sat in one doorway and the other in the building next, Mrs. Blakely was a Southerner, the other woman a Northerner. Between them they kept the buildings from being burned* saved their own homes thereby and possibly the life of the little sick boy. It was like that in Fayetteville* There were so many folks on both sides and they lived so close $ofeetner that they got to know one another and were friends. Things like this would happen. One day a northern officer came over to our house to talk to his wife who was visiting* He said he would be away all day. He was to go down to ±87 8 Adeline Biakeley M*D* Iludgins Prarie Grove to get 'Old Man Parks, dead or alive** Not until he was on his way did somebody tell him that he was talking about the father of his wife's hostess. Nerb day he came over to apologize* Said he never would have made such a cruel remark if he had known. But he didn't find his man. As the officers went i# the front door, Mr* Parks went out of the back end the wcmen surrounded him until he got away* There was another time when the North and South took refuge together. During the war even the little children were taught to listen for bugle calls and know what they m.ant. 7Je had to know----and how to act when we heard them. One day, I remember we were to have peas for dinner, with ham hock and corn bread. I was hungry that day and everything smelled so good. But Just as the peas were pert of them out of the pot and in a dish on the table the signal came *To Arms** Cannon followed almost immediately* Vie all ran for the cellar, leaving the food as it was. The cellar was dug out only a little way down. It had been raining and snowing all day----melted as it fell* It was about noon and the seep water had filled a pool in the middle of the cellar. They placed a tub in the water 188 9 Adeline Blakeley M*D* Hudgins and it floated like a little boat* They put Nora and a little girl who was visiting.her and me in it* The grown folks clung to the damp sides of the cellar floor and wall* After the worst bombing was over we heord someone upstairs in the house calling* It was the wife cf a northern officer. He had gotten away so fast he hed forgotten Ms pistols. She had tried to fellow him, but the shots had frightened her* 7e called to her to come to the basement* She came, tut in trying to climb up the slick sides she slid down and almost into our tub* She looked so fu^ny with her big fst legs that I giggled* L'rs* Blakeley slapped me---it was one of the few times she struck me* I was glad she did, for I would have laughed out* Ar*d it didn't do to laugh at Northerners* It wes night be 'ore the fighting was over* An old man who was in the basement with us went upstairs because he hea:d someone groan* sure enough a wounded man had dragged himself to our door* He laid the man, almost fainting down before- t e fireplace* It was all he could do* The man died* Vhen we finally came up there wesnft a peaf nor a bit of ham, not a crum of cornbreod* Floaters had cleaned the pot until it shone* TA:e had a terrible time getting along; during those years* I don't believe we could le\e done it except for the northern soldiers* You might sty the Confederacy was kept up b; private subscription, but the I(tenkees had the whole federal government 189 10 Adeline Blakeley M.D. Hudgins. back of them. They had good rations which were issued uncooked. They could get them prepared anywhere they liked. We were good cooks so that is the way we feot our food-----preparing it for soldi*, rs and eating it with them. They had quite a variety and a lot of everything. They were given baaon and coffee and sugar and flour and beans and somthing they called •mixed vegetables*. Those beans were little and sweet---not like the big ones we have^ today. The mixed vegetables were liked by lots of folks---1 didn't care for them. Everything was ground up together and then dried* You had to soak it like dried pees before cooking. Ifter the war they came to Mrs. Blakeley, the soldiers did and accused her of keeping me against my f will* I told them t at I stayed because I wanted to, the Blakeleys were my people. They let me alone, the whites did, but the negroes didn't like it. They tried to fight me and called me names. There was a well near the square from which everybody got water. Between it and our house was a negro cabin. The little negroes would rock me. I stood it as long as I could. Then I told Mrs* Blakeley. She said to get some, rooks in mypucket and it they rocked me to heave back* I was a good shot and they ran. Their mother came to Mrs. Bkakeley to oo.piain, but she told her, after hearing her thru that I had stood all I could and the only reason I 11 Adeline KLakeley M*D* Hudgins .hadn't been seriously hurt was because her children weren't good shots* They never bothered me again* It was hard after the war. The Federals stayed on for a long time. Fences were down, houses were burned, stock was gone, but we got along somehow* When Nora Blakeley was 14 a lady was teaching a subscription school in the hall across the street------the same hall Mrs* Blakely had saved from burning* She wanted Nora to teach for her. So, child that she was^she went over and pretty soon she was teaching up to the fourth grade* I went over every morning and b4.il t a fire for her before she arrived* That fall she went over to the University, but the next year she had to stay out to earn money* She wanted to finish so badly that we decided to take boarders* They would come to us from way over on the campus. There were always lots more who wanted to stay than we could take* We bought silver and dishes just as we could pay for them, and we added to the house in the summer time* I used to cook their breakfasts and dinners and pack baskets of lunch for them to take over to the Campus* We had lots of interesting people with us. One was Jeff Davis------later he was governor and then senator. He and a Creek Indian boy named sajpt Rice were great friends* There were lots of Indians in school a^ th? University then* They didn't have so many Indi^aX schools and tribes would make up money and send a bright boy here* 12 Adeline f/:Blakeley Hudgins* Ten years after she graduated from the University Nora married Harvey M. Hudgins. They moved to Hot springs and finally ran a hotel. It turned the night of Washington's "birthday in 1895. It was terrible, we saved nothi:.g but the night clothes we were in. Next morning it was worse for we saw small pox flags all over town* Our friends came to our rescue and gave us clothes and we went with, friends out into the country to escape the epidemic* There were three or four families in one little house. It was crowded, but we were all friends so it was nice after all* About ten years before Mr* Hudgins had built a building in Fayetteville* They used the second floor for an Opera House* When we came back here after the fire we took it over to. run* Mr* Hudgins had that and all the billboards in town. j£e saw all the shows* Several years later the twins, Helen and Wade were born* I always went to see the shows and took them with me* Folks Hatched them more than the shows* I kept them neat and clean and they were so cute. We saw the circuses too* I remember once Barnum and Bailey were coming to Fort Smith. We were going down* I didn't tell anybody, but I put $45 in my purse. I made money then* Mr* Hudgins got me a cow and I sold milk and butter and kept all I made. Why the first evening dress Helen had and the first long pants Bud ( Wade) had I bought. Well* we were 13 Adeline Blakeley M.D. Hudgins going down to Fort Smith, hut Bud got sick and we couldn't go» You know, Mary, it seemed so queer* When Helen and I went to California, we all saw the same circus together. Yew, I've been to California with her twice, y&enever the train would stop she would come from the pullman to the coacn where the colored persons had to ride to see about me. We went cut- to visit sister ( Bess Hudgins Clayton) and Bud* while we were there, Barnum and Bailey came to Los Angeles. It seemed so funny. There we were---away out in California---all the children grown up and off to themselves. There we were—all of us---seeing the show we had planned to see way back in Arkansas, years and years before* You know, Honey, that doll Ann has---she got it for her seventh birthday ( llisabeth Ann Wiggans---daughter of Helen Hudgins Wiggans). It was restrung for her, and was once before for her mother. But it's the same doll Baby Dean ( Dean ludgins ) carried out of.that fire in Hot Springs in 1895. Everybody loves Ann. She makes t e fifth generation I've cared for. When Helen is going out she brings Ann down here or I go up there. It's usually down here tho. Because since we turned the old home into apartments I take care of them, and it's best for me to be here most of the time. All t} e people in the apartments are mighty nice to me. Often for days at a time they bring me so much to eat that I don't have to cook for myself. A boy going to the University has a room here and tends to the furnace* Hells a nice boy. I like him. 3n *s" 14 My life's been a full one, Honey, end an interesting one. I can't rerlly say v.hich -art of it is test. I can't decide whfcther it's a better world now or then. I've had lots of herd v-.ork, and lots of friends, lots cf fun and I've gore lots of pieces. life is interesting. 193 30&US Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Vera Roy Bobo (Mulatto^ almost white) Holly Grove, Arkansas Age 62 "Ify parents came from Mac on t Georgia* My mother was Margaret Cobb* Her people were owned by the Cobbs# They reared her* She was a house girl and a seamstress. She sewed for both white and black* She was light color. "My father was St. Roy Holmes* He was a C.M.E. preacher in Georgia and later in Arkansas* He came on the train to Forrest City, 1885. He crossed the Mississippi River on a ferry boat* Later he preached at Wynne. He was light color* *I never heard them say very much about slavery. This was their own home* "My husband's father was the son of a white man also — Randall Bobo* He used to visit us from Bobo, Mississippi* The Bobos owned that town and were considered rich people* My husband was some darker and was born at Indian Bay, Arkansas* He was William Bobo. I never knew him till two months before I married him* We had a home wedding and a wedding supper in this house•" 194 (This may be continued) 30405 l95 Interviewer_________________Miss Irene Robertson__________ Person interviewed Liddie Boechus* (second interview) Madison, Arkansas Age 75 "I was born in West Point9 Mississippi* My own dear motherfs owner was Pool* His wife was Mistress Patty Pool* Old man Pool raised our set* He was an old soldier, I think* His was old when I come to know hlm+ •My own papa1 a pa was Sfelth* After he come back from the Civil War he took back his Staith name* He changed it back from Pool to Staith* *I was a small child when my own dear mother died* My stepmother had some children of her own* so papa hired me out by the year to nurse for my board and clothes* My stepmother didnft care for me right* White folks raised me* *I married when I was fifteen years old to a man twenty years old or more* White folks was good to me but I didnvt have no sense* I leff 'em* I married too young* I lived wid him little over twelve years, and X had twelve children by him* Then I married a preacher* We had two more children* My first husband was trifling* I ploughed, hoed, split wood to raise my babies* "My daughter come from Louisiana to stay with me last winter when I was sick* I got eight dollars, now I gsts six dollars from the Welfare* My daughter here now* "I went to one white teacher a few days—Miss Perkins* I never got to go enough to learn* I took up reading and writing from my children* I write mighty poor I tell you* 2- 196 •I used to be a midwife and got ten dollars a case* They won9t pay off now. I do a little of that work, hut X don9t get nothing for it* They have a doctor or wonft pay* «lfy husband was a good man* He was a preacher* I'm a Baptist* *I donft know what to think about young folks* Every fellar is for his own self* Times is hard with old folks* I had a stroke they said* This new generation ainft got no strength* I think it is because they set around so much* What would a heap of them do? A long day's work in the field would kill some of them* It would! Some folks don't work 'nought to be healthy* I don't know, but though, I really believes education and automobiles is the whole cause*11 30809 197 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Haggle (Bonny) Bond, Madison, Arkansas Age Well up in 80fs f I was born at Magnolia, North Carolina* Lou Nash named me Maggie .¦i*fcei ^y mistress*. That was her name* They had a rabbit they called Bunny* It died* They started calling me Bunny* Our old mistress was a Mallory trom Virginia* She was the old head of all these at Forrest City. (A big family of people are descendants at Forrest City*) School During the War "Mrs* Eddy Williams said to my mother, 'Let her go to school and play with the children.1 I was young* I donft know how old I was* I was •cashed, my hair combed, and clean dresses put on me* I went to school four or five days* I set by different ones* They used slates* It was a log schoolhouse* It had a platform the teacher sat on* They preached in it on Sunday* Where Mt* Vernon Cemetery now stands. The teacher was Mrs# McCallis* She rode horseback from out of the bottoms* The families of children that come there were: Mallorys, Izards, Nashs, Dawsons, Kittrells, and Pruitts* "There was a big oak tree in front. The boys played on one side, the girls on the other. Cake and pie was a fortune then. If the children had any they would give me part of it. Times was so hard then people had plain victuals every day at school* nThe children tried to learn ite at recess under the tree* They used Mc- Guffey's and Blue Back books* One day I said out loud, fI want to go home*1 2* The children all laughed* One day I went to sleep and the teacher sent me out doors to play. Mrs. McCallis said, 'Bunny, you rausfnft talk out loud in school*f I was nodding one day# The teacher woke me up* She wrapped her long switch across the table. She sent me to play. The house set up on high blocks. I got under it and found some doodle holes* Mrs. McCallis come to the door and said, fBunny, don't call so loud. You must keep quiet.1 I would say: fDoodle, doodle, your house on fire* Come get some bread and butter.1 They would come up* * After the War I had a white lady teacher from the North* I went a little bit to colored school but I didnft care about books* I learned to sew for my dolls. The children would give me a doll all along* "The happiest year of my whole life was the first year of my married life* I hardly had a change of clothes. I had lots of friends* I went to the field with Scott* I pressed cotton with two horses, one going around and the other coming* Scott could go upstairs in the gin and look over at us. We had two young cows* They had to be three years old then before they were any service. I fed hogs* I couldn't cook but I learned* I had been a house girl and nurse* nI was nursing for Mrs. Pierce at Goodwin. I wanted to go home* She didnft want me to leave* I wouldn't tell her why* She said, fI speck you going to get married.1 She gave me a nice white silk dress* Mrs. Drennand made it* My owner, Miss Leila Nash, lend me one of her chemisette, a corset cover, and a dress had ruffles around the bottom* It was wide* She never married. I borrowed my veil from a colored woman that had used it* Mr* Hollwage (dead now but was a lawyer at Forrest City) gave Scott a tie and white vest and lend him his watch and chain to be married in* They was friends* 3* Miss Leila made my cake. She wanted my gold band ring to go in it. I wouldnft let her have it for that. Not my ring! She put a dime in it* Miss Maggie Barrow and Mrs* Maggie Hatcher made two baskets full of maple biscuits for my wedding* They was the best cake* Made in big layers and cut and iced* Two laundry baskets full to the brim*" She showed us a white cedar three-gallon churn, brass hoops hold the staves in place, fifty-seven years old and a castor with seven cruits patented December 27, 1859* It was a silver castor and was fixed to ring for the meal* She showed us the place under a cedar tree where there are four unmarked graves—Mr. and Mrs. McMurray and their son and daughter and one niece* The graves are being ploughed over now* "Mrs* Murray1 s son gave her five hundred dollars* She hid it* After she died no one knew where to find it." Scott Bond bought the place* Bunny was fixing the hearth (she showed us the very spot) brick and found a brick. Dora threw it out* The can could never be found and soon Dora went home near Chattanooga, Tennessee* Dora was a Negro servant in the Bond home* It seams the money was in the old can that Bunny found but thought it was just a prop for the brick. Maggie (Bunny) Bond has given two of her white friends coffins* One was to a man and two years ago one was to a woman, Mrs. Evans1 daughter* She wanted to do something, the nicest thing she could do for them, for they had been good to her* People who raised them and had owned them* They gratefully accepted her present* In her life she has given beautiful and expensive wedding presents to her white friends who raised her and owned her* She told us about giving one and someone else said she gave two* Theo Bond's wife said this about the second one* 199 200 4* The Yankees passed along in front of the Scott Bond home from Hunterf Arkansas to Madison, Arkansas* It was an old military road* The Yankees burnt up Mt. Vernon, Arkansas* Madison was a big town but it overflowed so bad* There were pretty homes at Madison* Levies were not known, so the courthouse was moved to Forrest City* Yankees camped at Madison* A lot of them died there* A cemetery was made in sight of the Scott Bond yard* The markings were white and black letters arid the pailings were white with black pointed tips* They were moved to the north* Madison grew to be large because it was on a river* Interviewer's Comment Maggie (Bunny) Bond is eight-ninth white* 2G1 Interviewer Thomas Blmore lacy______ Person interviewed Caroline Bonds Bussellville, Arkansas Agp 70 "What's all dis infofmation you askin1 about goinf to be for? Will it help us along any or make times any better? All rightf then* My namefs Caroline Bonds* I don't know jist exactly when I was born, but I think it was on de twentieth of March about—about—yes, in 1866, in Anderson County, North Carolina* •So you was a fTarheel1 too? Bless my soul! *My old master was named Hubbard, and dat was my name at first* My parents belonged to Marse Hubbard and worked on his big plantation till dey was freed* *I was too little to remember much about what happened after de War* My folks moved to Arkansas County, in Arkansasf soon after de War and lived down dere a long time* *I joined de Missionary Baptis* Church when I was fif- teen and has belonged to it ever1 since* "No sir, I never got in de habit of votin1 and never did vote, never thought it was necessary*11 * 30711 Interviewer Samuel S* Taylor___________________ Person interviewed______________Rev* Frank T* Boone______________ 1410 W* Seventeenth Street, Little Rock, Arkansas Age 80 / / 7^<£ C frt a-^^t^Q J "I was born in Nansemond County, Virginia on my father's place near the center of the County* I was born free* We were members of the colonies* You know there were what is known as Free Colonies* They were Negroes that had always been free* The first landing of the Negroes in America, they claimed, formed a colony* The Negro men who came over, it is said, could buy their freedom and a number of them did* "But I didnft become free that way* My ancestors were a white man and an Indian woman* He was my great-grandfather* None of my family have been slaves as far back as I know. "There was one set of white people in Virginia called Quakers* Their rule was to free all slaves at the age of twenty-one* So we got some free Negroes under that rule* My mother who was a Negro woman was freed under this rule. My father was always free* "My grandmother on my father1 s side owned slaves* The law was that colored people could own slaves but they were not allowed to buy them* I donft know how many slaves my grandmother owned* I didnft know they were slaves until the War was over* I saw the colored people living in the little houses on the place but I didn't know they was slaves* "One morning my grandmother went down to the quarters and when she came back she said to my aunt, fWell, the slaves left last night*f And that was the first I knew of their being slaves* 2. 203 "My father1 s name was Frank Boone. I was named for him* My mother fs name was Phoebe Chalk* I donft know who her mother and father were* She said that her mother died when she was a child* She was raised by Quaker people* I presume that her mother belonged to these Quaker people* "On our place no grown person was ever whipped* They was just like one family* They called grandmother1s house the big house* They farmed* They didnft raise cotton though* They raised corn, peas, wheat, potatoes, and all things for the table* Hogs, cows, and all such like was raised* I never saw a pound of meat or a peck of flour or a bucket of lard or any- thing like that bought* We rendered our.own lard, pickled our own fish, smoked our own meat and cured it, ground our own sausage, ground our own flour and meal from our own wheat and corn we raised on our place, spun and wove our own cloth* The first suit of clothes I ever wore, my mother spun the cotton and wool, wove the cloth and made the clothes* It was a mixed steel gray suit* She dyed the thread 30 as to get the pattern* One loom carried the black thread through and the other carried the white thread to weave the cloth into the mixed pattern* "I don?t know how large our place was* Maybe it was about a hundred acres* Every one that married out of the family had a home. They called it a free Negro colony* Nothing but Negroes in it* "My father volunteered and went to the aimy in 1862* He served with- the Yankees* You know Negroes didnft fight in the Confederate armies* They was in the armies, but they were servants* My father enrolled as a soldier* I think it was in Company F. I donft know the regiment or the division. He was a sergeant last time I saw him. I remember that well* I remember the stripes on his arm. He was mustered out in Gal vest on, Texas, in 1865# s. 204 "The house I was born in was a log house, sealed inside* The cracks were chinked with dirt and mud, and it was weather boarded on the outside* You couldnft tell it was a log house* It had two rooms* In them times you didnft cook in the house you lived in* You had a kitchen built off from the house you lived in just like you have servant quarters now* You went across the yard to do your cooking* The smokehouse was off by itself* Milk was off by itself too* The dairy house was where you kept the flour and sugar and preserves and fruit and pickles and all those kind of things* No food was kept in the house* The milk house had shelves all up in it and when you milked the cows the pans and bowls and crocks were put up on the shelves* Where it was possible the milk house was built on a branch or spring where you could get plenty of cold water* You didnft milk in the milk house* You milked in the cow pen right out in the weather* Then you carried it down to the milk house and strained it* It was poured out in vessels* When the cream rose it was skimmed off to churn for butter* "Feed for the stock was kept in the corn crib* We would call it a barn now* That barn was for corn and oft1 times we had overhead a place where we kept fodder* Bins were kept in the barn for wheat and peas* Slaves on Other Places "I seen the slaves outside the colonies* I was little and didnft pay any attention to them* Slaves would run away* They had a class of white people known as patrollers* They would catch the slaves and whip them* I never saw that done* I heard them talking about it* I was only a child and never got a chance to see the slaves on the places of other people, but just heard the folks talking about them* 4. Hi thin the Yankee Lines *18hen the War broke out, the free colored people became fearful* There was a great deal of stuff taken away from them by the Confederate soldiers* They moved into the Yankee lines for protection. My family moved also* They lost live stock and feed. They lost only one horse and then they came back home* I can see that old horse right now* He was a sorrel horse, with a spot in his forehead, and his name was John. My father was inside the Yankee lines when he volunteered for the service• I donft know how much he got or anything about it except that I know the Yankees were hold- ing Portsmouth, Norfolk, Hampton Roads, and all that country* Expectations of the Slaves "I could hear my mother and uncle talk about what the slaves expected* I know they was expecting to get something* They weren't supposed to be turned out like wild animals like they were* I think it was forty acres and a mule* I am not sure but I know they expected something to be settled on them* What They Got "If any of them got anything in Virginia, I donf t know anything about it. They might have been some slaves that did get something—just like they was here in Arkansas* •Old Man Wilfong, when he freed Andy Wilfong in Bradley County, Arkansas, gave Andy plenty. He did get forty acres of land* That is right down here out from Warren. Wilfong owned that land and a heap more when he died* He hasnft been dead more than six or seven years* I pastored him in 1904 and 1905* There were others who expected to get something, but I donft know any others that got it* Land was cheap then* 205 5* Andy bought land at twenty-five and fifty cents an acre, and sold the timber off of it at the rate of one thousand dollars for each forty acres* He bought hundreds of acres* He owned a section and a section and one-half of land when he was my member* He had seven boys and two girls and he gave them all forty acres apiece when they married* Then he sold the timber off of four forties* Whenever a boy or girl was married hefd give him a house* Hefd tell him to go out and pick himself out a place* "He sold one hundred and sixty acres of timber for four thousand dollars, but if he had kept it for two years longer, he would have got ten thousand dollars for it* The Bradley Lumber Company went in there and cut the timber all through* "Wilfong' s master's name was Andrew Wilfong, same as Andy's* His master came from Georgia, but he was living in Arkansas when freedom came* Later on Andy bought the farm his master was living on when freedom came* His master was then dead* Rigit After the War "My mother came back home and we .went on farming just like we did before, raising stuff to eat* You know I can't remember much that they did before the War but I can remember what they did during the War and after the War,—when they came back home* My folks still own the old place but I have been away from there sixty-one years* A whole generation has been raised up and died since 1 left* *I came out with one of my cousins and went to Georgia (Du Pont) following turpentine work* It was turpentine farming* You could cut a hole in the tree known as the box* It will hold a quart* Rosin runs out of that tree into the box* Once a week, they go by and chip a tree 6o 207 to keep the rosin running* Then the dippers dip the rosin out and put it in barrels* Them barrels is hauled to the still* Then it is distilled just like whiskey would be* The evaporation of it makes turpentine; the rosin is barreled and shipped to make glass* The turpentine is barreled and sold* I have dipped thousands of gallons of turpentine* "I came to South Carolina in 1880 and married* I stayed there seven years and came to Arkansas in 1888* I came right to North Little Rock and then moved out into the country around Lonoke County,—on a farm* I farmed there for five years* Then I went to pastoring* I started pastoring one year before I quit making cotton. I entered the ministry in 1892 and continued in the active service until November 1937* I put in forty-five years in the active ministry* Schooling nI first went to school at a little log school in Suffolk, Virginia* Prom there I went to Hampton, Virginia* I got my theological training in Shorter College under Dr. T. H. Jackson* KnJELux *I never had any experience with the Ku Klux KLan* I seen white man riding horses and my mother said they was Ku Kluxes, but they never bothered us as I remember* They had tuo sets of *hite folks like that* The patrollers were before and during the War and the Ku Klux KLan came after the Y/ar* I canft remember how the Ku KLux I saw were dressed* The patrollers I remember* They would just be three or four white men riding in bunches* 7* Nat Turner Rebellion *I have heard the 'Nat Turner Rebelliont spoken of, but I don't know what was said* I think the old people called it the fNat Turner War*1 Reconstruction Days "Lawyer Whipper was one of the best criminal lawyers in the state* He was a Negro* The Republican party had the state then and the Negroes were strong* Robert Small was a noted politician and was elected to go to Congress twice* The last time he ran, he was elected but had a hard fight* The election was so close it was contested but Staall won out* He was the last nigger congressman* I heard that there were one or two more, but I donft remember them* "When I first went to South Carolina, them niggers was bad* They organized* They used to have an association known as the Union Laborers, I think* The organization was like the fraternal order* I donft knowfs they ever had any trouble but they were always in readiness to protect them- selves if any conflict arose* It was a secret order carried on just like any other fraternal order* They had distress calls* Every member has an old horn which he blew in time of trouble* I think that saiae kind of organization or something like it was active here when I came* The Eagles (a big family of white people in Lonoke County) had a fight with members of it once and some of the Eagles were killed a year or two before I came to this state* Voting and Political Activities "I voted in South Carolina, but I wasnft old enough to vote in Georgia* However, I stumped Taliaferro County for Garfield when I was in Georgia* 208 8* I lived in a little town by the name of lie Cray. The town I was in, they had never had more than fifteen or twenty Republican votes polled* But I polled between two hundred and three hundred votes* I was one of the regular speakers* The tickets were in my care too. You see, they had tickets in them days and not the long ballots* They didn't have long ballots like they have now* The tickets were sent to me and I took care of them until the election* In the campaign I was regularly employed through the Republican Campaign Committee Managers* nAccording to preparation and conditions there were less corruption then than there is now. In them days, they had to learn the tricks. But now they know them. Now you find the man and he already knows what to do# Songs "Back in that period, nearly all the songs the Negro 3ang considerably were the spirituals: ?Ifm Going Down to Jordan/ fRoll Jordan Roll.1 n 209 ..-4 #™» 210 Interviewer Samuel S* Taylor___________ Person interviewed J* F* Boone 1502 Izard, Little Rock* Arkansas Age 66 F d llu tent yii T?4-H^J '•My father's name was Arthur Boone and my mother's name was Eliza Boone* I am goinf to tell you about my father, Now be sure you put down there that this is Arthur Boonefs son* I am J. F. Boonef and I am goin' to tell you about my father, Arthur Boone* "My father's old master was Henry Boone* My mother came from Virginia--north Virginia—and my father came from North Carolina* The Boone s bought them* I have heard that my father t Arthur Boone , was bought by the Boones* They wasnft his first masters* I have heard my father say that it was more than a thousand dollars they paid for him. "He said that they used to put up niggers on the block and auction them off* They auctioned off niggers accordinf to the breed of them* Like they auction off dogs and horses* The better the breed, the more they'd pay* My father was in the first-class rating as a good healthy Negro and those kind sold for good money* I have heard him say that niggers some- times brought as high as five thousand dollars* "My father don't know much about his first boss man* But the Boones were very good to thenu They got biscuits once a week* The overseer was pretty cruel to them in a way* My father has seen them whipped till they couldn't stand up and then salt and things that hurt poured in their wounds. My father said that he seen that done; I don't know whether it was his boss man or the overseer that done it* 2* "My father said that they breeded good niggers—stud fem like horses and cattle# Good healthy man and woman that would breed fast, they would keep stalled up* Wouldn't let them get out and work. Keep them to raise young niggers from* I donft know for certain that my father was used that way or nott I don't suppose he would have told me that, but he was a mighty fine man and he sold for a lot of money* The slaves weren't to blame for that* "My father said that in about two or three months after the ^ar ended, his young master told them that they were free* They came home from the War about that time* He told them that they could continue living on with them or that they could go to some one else if they wanted to f cause they were free and there wasn't any more slavery* "I was born after slavery* Peace was declared in 1865, wasn't it? When the War ended I don't know where my father was living, but I was bred and bonx in Woodruff near Augusta in Arkansas* All the Booneses were there when I knew anything about it* They owned hundreds and hundreds of acres of ground* I was born on old Captain Boons fs farm* wMy father was always a farmer* He farmed till he died* They were supposed to give him a pension, but he never did get it* They wrote to us once or twice and asked for his number and things like that, but they ne^er did do nothing* You see he fit in the Civil War* Wait a minute* We had his old gun for years• My oldest brother had that gun. He kept that gun and them old blue uniforms with big brass buttons. My old master had a horn he blowed to call the slaves with, and my brother had that too* He kept them things as particular as you would keep victuals* "Yes, my father fit in the Civil War* I have seen his war clothes a3 many times as you have hairs on your head I reckon* 211 »« 212 He had his old sword and all. They had a hard battle down in Mississippi once he told me* Our house got burnt up and we lost his honorable dis«* charge* But he was legally discharged* But he didn't git nothinf for it* and we didn't neither* "Ily father was whipped by the pateroles several times* They run him and whipped him* My daddy slipped out many a time* But they never caught him when he slipped out* They never whipped him for slippin' out* That was during the time he was a slave* The slaves wasn't allowed to go from one master to another without a pass* My father said that sane times, his young master would play a joke on him* My father couldn't reado His young master would give him a pass and the pass would say, 'Whip Arthur Boone's — and pass him out* When he comes back, whip his •—«- again and pass him back*' His young master called hisself playin' a joke on him* They wouldn't hit him more than half a dozen licks, but they would make him take his pants down and they would give them to him jus' where the pass said* They wouldn't hurt him much* It was more devilment than anything else* He would say, 'Whut you hittin' me for when I got a pass?' and they would say, 'Yes, you got a pass, but it says whip your —-•' And they would show it to him, and then they would say, 'You'll git the res' when you come back*' My father couldn't read no thin' else, but that's one word he learnt to read right well* nMy father was quite a young man in his day* He died in 1891* He was just fifty-six years eld* I'm older now than he was when he died* My occupation when I was well was janitor* I have been sick now for three years and ain't done nothin* in all that time* If it wasn't for my wife* I don't know whut I would do* 4* "I was born in 1872, on December the eighth, and I am sixty-six years old now* That isf I will be if the Lord lets me live till December the eighth, this year« "Now whose story are you saying this is? You say this is the story of Arthur Boone, father of J* F* Boone? Well, thatfs all right; but you better mention that J. F* Boone is Arthur Boonefs son* I rent this house from Mr* Lindeman* He has the drug store right there * If anybody comes lookin1 for me, I might be moved, but Mr* Lindeman will still be there#" 213 Interviewer's Comment If you have read this interview hastily and have missed the patroller joke on page three, turn back and read it now# The interviewer considers it the choicest thing in the story* That and the story of an unpensioned Union veteran and the insistence on the word wsonn seemed to me to set this story off as a little out of the ordinary* 3033? Interviewer Mrs. Annie 1. LaCotta Person Interviewed Jonas Boone. St. Charles. Arkansaa Age 86 214 Host any day In St. Charles you can sea an old Negro man coming down the street with a small saek made of bed ticking hanging shot-pouch fashion from his shoulder. This is old Uncle Jonas Boone who by the aid of his heavy cane walks to town and makes the round of his white folks homes to be given some old shoes, clothes, or possibly a mess of greens or some sweet potatoes — in fact whatever he may find* "Jonas, can you remember anything about the war or slavery time?" "Tea mam I was a great big boy when the slaves were sot free.* "Do you know how old you are?" "Tea mam I will be 87 years old on March 15th. I was born in Miss* isaippi at Cornerville. My mother belonged to Mr. L. D. Hewitt's wife* She didn't have many slaves — just my parents and my two uncles and their families. My daddy and two uncles went to the war but our mistress* husband Mr. Hewitt was too old to go* I guess my daddy was killed in da war, for he never come home when my uncles did* le lived here in Arkansas close to St. Charles. Our mistress was good to her slaves but when they were free her husband had got himself drowned in big LaGrue when de water was high all over the bottoms and low ground; he was trying to oross in a boat, what you call a dug out* You know it's a big log scooped out till it floats like a boat* Then after that our mistress wanted to go back 2. to her old home in Mississippi and couldn't take us with her cause she didn9t have any money, so we stayed here* My mammy cried days and nights when she knew her mistress was going to leave her here in Arkansas* We moved down on de Schute and worked for Mr* Mack Price* You know he was Mr* Arthur1s and Miss Joevs father." "Jonas, if your owners were Hewitts why is your name Boone?91 "Well you see, miss, my daddy9s daddy belonged to Mr* Daniel Boone9 Mr* John Boons9s and Miss Mary Black's grandpa, and I was named Boone for him, my granddaddy* I been married twice* My last wife owns her home out close to de church west of St* Charles* I haven9t been able to work any for over two years but my wife makes us a living* She9s 42 or 43 years old and a good worker and a good woman* I9ve been all de time want- ing some of this help other folks been getting but dey won9t give me nothing* The woman what goes to your house to see if you needs relief told me I was better off den most folks an9 of course I know I9d rather have my wife and home than have to be like lots of dese niggers who9s old and can9t work and got nothing but what de Government give 9em*91 215 30439 #725 216 Interviewer________________Mlaa Irene Robertson_________________ Person Interviewed John Bowdry. Clarendon. Arkansas Age 75 •I was born at Baldwyn, Mississippi not far from Oorlnth* When my mother was last seen she was going away with a bunch of Yankees* I don't know what it was* She was a dark woman. Pa was light* I was born in 1865* I was left when I was two or three months old* I never seen no pa* They left me with ay uncle what raised as* He was a slave but too young to go to war* His master was named Porter* Master Stevenson had sold him* He liked Porter the best* He took the name of Stanfleld Porter at freedom* Porters had a ordinary farm. He wasn't rich* He had a few slaves* Stevenson had a lot of slaves* Grandfather was in Charleston, South Carolina* Him and ay uncle corresponded* My uncle leamet to read and write but I guess somebody done his writing for him at the other end* "My tfnole Stanfield seen a heap of the far. He seen them fight, come by in droves a mile long* They wasted their feed and living too* "At freedom Master Porter told them about it and he lived on there a few years till I come into recollection* I found out about my pa and mother* They had three sets of children in the house* They was better to them* All of them got better treatment 'en I did* One day I left* I'd been making up my mind to leave* I was thirteen years old* Soared of everything* I walked twenty miles to Middleton, Tennessee* I slept at the state line at some stranger's but at black folks* house* I walked all day two days* I got a job at some white folks good as my parents* His name was J. D* Palmer* 8* He was a big farmer* I slept in a servant's house and et in his own kitchen* He aont m» to school two two-month terms* Pour months all I got* I got ay- board them four months* I got ay board and eight dollars a month the other months in the year* He died* •I oome to Forrest City when I was twenty years old* "X been married* X got a girl lires vid as here* My girl, she married* •I ain't got no complaint again* the times* My life has been fair* I worked mighty hard*" 217 oor-^/~ Little Rock District OUODO FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Name of Interviewer Irene Robertson Subject______________Ex-Slave -- History Story - Information (if not enoush space on this page add page) Jack Boyd was born a slave. Miss Ester1 s mother was a Boyd and married a Donnahoo. Miss Ester Donnahoo married Jim Shed. The Boyd'8 lived in Richmond, Virginia. They sold Jack Boydfs grandmother, grand- father, mother, and father a number of times. One time they were down , in Georgia not far from Atalnta. They were being ill treated. The new master had promised to be good to them so he wasn't and the news had got- ten back to Virginia as it had a time or two before so the Boyds sent to Georgia and brought them back and took them back home to Virginia. The Boyds always asked the new masters to be good to them but no one was never so good to them as the Boyds were# ^and they would buy them back again. When freedom was declared three of the Boyd brothers and Miss Ester's husband Jim Shed, was the last master of Charlie Boyd. Jackfs father came to Waco, Texas. They may have been there before for they were "big ranchmen* but that is when Jack Boyds whole family caipe to Texas. There were thirty six in his family. The families then were large.TJhen Jack grew up to be about ten years old there wasn't anything much at Waco except a butcher shop and a blacksmith shop. Jim Shed alone had 1800 acres of land his own. He used nine cowboys, some white and some black. The first of January every year the cattle was ready to be driven to Kansas City to market• They all rode broncos. It would rain, some- times hail and sometimes they wou^d get into thunder storms* The cattle would stampede, get lost and have to be found© This information given by______Jack Bo^j ^djCL___________________ Place of Residence_____________Hazen, Arkansas___________ ________ 0ccupation _______Light jobs now.__________________AGE 72 They slept in the open plains at night* They had good clothes* They would ride two or three weeks and couldnft get a switch* Finally in about June or July they would get into Kansas City* The white masters were there wait- ing and bought food and supplies to take back home* They would have started another troop of cowboys with cattle about June and meet them in Kansas City just before Christmas* Jack liked this life except it was a hard life in bad weather* They had a good living and the Masters made tfbig money1* Jack said he always had his own money then* His people are scattered around Waco now, wthe Boyd negroes? He hasn*t been back since he came te Arkansas when he was about eighteen* He married here and had ^raised" a big family* The plains were full of rattle snakes* rabbits, wild oats end lots of other wild animals* They never started out with less than 400 head of cattle* Bhey picked cattle that would travel about together* It would all be grown or about the same age* The worst thing they had to con- tend with was a lack of water. They had to carry water along and catch rainwater and hunt places to water the cattle* His fatherrs and grand- father^ masters names were GiHiSf Hawkins, and Sam Boyd. They were the three who came to Texas and located the ranch at ^aco* Jack thinks they have been dead a long time but they have heirs around Waco now. Jack Boyd left ttaco in 1881. #765 ^U Circumstances Of Interview STATE—Arkan sas NAME OP WOEKER—Bernice Bowden ADDEESS—1006 Oak Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas DATE~November 2, 1938 SUBJECT—Ex-slaves 1. Name and address of informant—Maljtoyd, son of slaves 2. Date and time of interview—November 1, 1938, 9:45 a.m. 3* Place of interview—101 Miller Street 4. Name and address of person, if any, who put you in touch with informant— None. I saw him sitting on porch as I walked along. 5. Name and address of person, if any, accompanying yout-None 6. Description of room, house, surroundings, etc.—Frame house. Sat on porch. Yard clean—everything neat. Near foundry on graveled street in suburbs of west Pine Bluff. Text of Interview "Papa belonged to Bill Boyd. Papa said he was his father and treated.him just like the rest of his children. He said Bill Boyd was an Irishman. I know papa looked kinda like an Irishman—face was red. Mama was about my coior# Papa was born in Texas, but he came to Arkansas. I fnember hearin* him say he saw fem fight six months in one j^aoe$ down here at Marks1 Mill* He said Bill Boyd had three sons, Urk and Tom and Nat. They was in the Civil War. I heered Tom Boyd say he was in behind a crew of men in the war and a Jankee started shoo tin1 and when he shot down the last one next to Tom, he seen who it was loin* the shootinf and he shot him and saved his life. He was the hind one. "Ifve farmed mostly and sawmilled. HI use to get as high as three and five dollars callin' figgers for the white folks•* 221 Interviewer1 s Comment NAME OF WORKER—Bernice Bowden NAME AND ADDHESS OP IMOEttAKOV—Mai Boyd, 101 Miller Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Subscribes to the Daily Graphic and reads of world affairs* Goes to a friend1 s house and listens to the radio* Lives with daughter and is supported by her* House belongs to a son-in-law* lore good clothing and was very clean* He hoped that the United States would not "become involved in a war* K)EM B 2QO> #765 ^^w Personal History of Informant STATS—Arkansas NAM2 OF WORKER—Bernice Bowden ADDRESS—1006 Oak Street DATE—November 2, 1938 SUBJECT—Ex-3laves NAME AND ADDRESS OP INBOBJCANT—Mai Boyd, 101 Miller Street, Pine Bluff, Ark. It Ancestry—Father, Tol Boyd; Mather, Julia Dangerfield. Z. Place and date of births-Cleveland County, August 4, 1873 3. Family—Lives with daughter. Has one other daughter. Ifcther one-half Indian, horn in Alabama, he thinks. 4. Places lived in, with dates~Ouachita County, Dallas County. Bradley County, Jefferson County. 5. Education, with dates—Began schooling in 1880 and went until twelve or thirteen. 6. Occupations and accomplishments, with dates—Farmed till 21, public work? Sawmill work. 7. Special skills and interests--None 8. Community and religious activities—Ward Chapel on West Sixth. 9# Description of informant—Gray hair, height 5 ft. 9 in», high cheekbones. Gray hair-practically straight says like father. 10* Other points gained in interview~Says father was part Irish. Belonged to Bill Boyd. Stayed there for years after freedom. 3057(5 Llttle E00k Dl3tri0t 223 FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Name of Interviewer Irene Robertson s Subj ect___________EX-SLAVE — HtlSTCRY — OLD SAYINGS_________________ Story - Information (if not enough space on this page add pa ge) George Braddox was born a slave but his mother being freed when he was eight years old they went to themselves - George had one sister and one brother. He doesnft know anything about them but thinks they are dead as he is the youngest of the three. Kis father's name was Peter Calloway He went with Gus Taylor to the war and never came back to his family. George said he had been to Chicago several times to see his father where; he was liv- ing. But his mother let her children go by that name. She gave them a name Braddox when they were freed. Galloways lived on a joining plantation to John and Dave Gemes. John Gemes was the old master and Dave the young.George said they were mean to him. He can remember that Gus Taylor wes overseer for the Gemes .till he went to war. The Gemes lived in a brick house and the slaves lived in log houses. They had a big farm and raised cotton and corn. The cotton was six feet tall and had big leaves. They had to pull the leaves to let the owls ;ret the sun to open, ^hey topped the cotton too. They made lots o' cotton and corn to an acre. Dave Gemes had several children v/hen George moved away,their names were Ruben, Johr, Margaret, Susie and Betty. They went to school at Marshall, Texas. John Gomes had fine carriages, horses and mules, de had one old slave who .just milked ana churned. She didn't do anything else. V.hen young calves had to be attended to somebody else had to heln her and one man did all the feeding. They had lets of peafowles, ducks, geese and chickens. This information given by_______George Braddox ____________________ Place of Residence_____________Hazen. Arkansas__________________________ 0 cupation Farmer AGE 80 -2- They had mixed stock of chickens and guineas - always had a drove of turkeys. Sometimes the turkeys would go off with wild turkeys. There were wild hogs and turkeys in the woods. George never learned to read or write. He renumbers they built a school for white children on the Calloway place joining the Gemes place but he thought it was tuition school. George said he thought the Gemes and all his "kin" folks came from Alabama to Texas, but he is not sure but he does know this. Dr. Hazen came from Tennessed to Texas and back to Hazen, Arkansas and settled. His cousin Jane Hodge (colored) was working out near here and he came here to deer hunt and just stayed with them. He-said deer was plentiful here. It was not cleared and so close to white Cache, St. Francis and Mississippi rivers. George said his mother cooked for the -^ ernes the first he could remember of her. That was all she had time, to do. It was five miles to Marshall, ^hey lived in Harrison County and they could buy somethings to eat there if they didn't raise enough. They bought cheese by the cases in round boxes and flour in barrels and sugar in barrels. They had fine clothes for Sunday. After his mother left the Gemes they worked in the field or did anything she could for a living. George married after he came to Arkansas and bought a farm 140 acres of land 4 miles north of Hazen and a white man, ~---closed a mortfage out on him and took it. He naid ,300.00 for a house in town in which he now lives. His son was killed in the V/orld War ar d he gets his son's insurance every month. George said when he came to Arkansas it was easy to l~ the hook in the ceil- ing on which meat was hung) . There were three of them . One would whip until he was tired, and the' the other would take it up. Some years after she got that whipping, her master's child was down to the bayou playing in the water. She told the child to stop playing is the water, and it did B8t. Instead it threw dirt into the water that had the bluing in it. Then she took the child and threw it in o the Bayou. Shoot Some way or other the child managed to scramble out* When the child's aunt herd it from the ch Id, she questioned my mother and a ked her if b she did It. My mother told her "Tea*. Then she said. wlell what do you want to own it for? Don't you know if they find it outo they will kill you? WV FREEDOM CAMS % mother said that an old white man came through the quarters on e morning ind said that they were all free — that they could go away or stay where they were or do what they wanted to. If you will go there, I can send .you to an old man $237 S . 8. Taylor eighty-six years old who was in General 3herman*s army. He same from Mississippi. I don't know where he was a slate. Bttt ho oaa tell you when peach was declared and what they said and everything. WHAT THS SLAVES 1JCPICTSD The slaves were not expecting much hut they were expecting more than they got. I am not telling yon anything I read in his- torybut I have heard that there was a bounty in the treasury for the ex-slavesf and then alone. And some reason or other they did a not pay it.off* out the time was coming when they, weald pay it off• And every man or woman living that was born a slave weald benefit from it. They say that Abraham Lincoln principally was hilled be- cause ho was going to pay this money to the ex-slaves and before they weald permit it they killed him. . Old man white who lives oat la the west part of town was aa agent for some Senator who was la Washington, and ho charged a dime and took your name and age and the plaoo whore youtived. KIT KLtfX SLAB* TheyLalled the K. K. K."fhi*e Caps*. Right there in ay neighborhood* there was a Jlered man who had n't loag oomo ia The colored man was late coming into the lot to get the male for the white man/d* and woman he was working for. The white man hit him Waters Brooks 1614 «alaaki Street, Little Reek, Ark. Retired railroad worker, le. Pao. 7ft 11258 3/ a. Taylor f The Hegro knocked the white man down and was/ going to kill Ma when the white man begged him off, telling hia that ho weald n't lot anybody klee hart hia ? He ( the fegro) went on off and never oaae baek . That night there wore two hand red white Cape looking forai hia but thoy didn't find him. Anther man got into an argument. Thoy wont to work and it ana otartod to rain. The Hegro thought that thoy would otep working bo cause of the rain; ao ho otartod home* The aan ho waa warning for met hia and naked hia where ho was going. When ha told hia ho otartod to hit hia with the butt end of the gnn he was wearing* The Hegro knoeked hia gnn up* took it away fro* hia, and drawed down and started to kill hia whoa another negro knocked the gan up, and sawed the white nan's life. Bat the ligger might as wall bars killed hia because that night seventy-five masked men hasted hia He was hid away by his friends until ho got a ohanoo to got away. This an was named Matthew Collins. There was another ease* This was a politioai one* She eolored aan wanted to ran for representative of ooao kind. la had been stump speaking. Ho lived on a white aaa's place , and the owner case to hia and told hia ho had better got away because a mob was coming after hia (not Just K. K. X.). lo told hia wife to go away and stay with his brother but she would n't. Bo hid hiaself la a waters Brooks IS14 falaski Street, Little Hook . Arkansas Retired railroad worhar ** 9.K* S. 3 Taylor trunk and hla wifo wao and or the fleer with Ilia two children. The white bob flrod into the house aad that did »'t da any thing, so they throwod a ball of fir* into tho house aad harmed Ma wifo and ohildroa. Then ha rase ap aad came oat of tho trunk had hol- lared ? "took oat I'a coning", and he fired a lead ef buck shot and tore one ama nearly ia two aad ran away is the confusion. The next day he went to the ama on whose place he lived» hat he told him he could n't do anything abett it. Another ama by the mama of Bah Sawyer had a farm near my home aad another farm dewa near Haglaty's plaae. le worked the Jamni laggeaa from eae farm to the other. His bey weald ride la front with a rifle aad he weald ha ia the rear with a big gun swinging dowa from his hip. There was ama Ham ger who get oat aad weat dewa to Alexandria (Louielana). Bb wrote to the officers and they caught the ligger aad pat him into the stocks and brought him back, end the man hag n*t dene a thing hat run away. After that they worked him with a chela holding hi a logo together ee that he could only make ahert a tape. They had an old white man who worked share aad thaw treated him so mean he ran away aad left hla wife. They treated the pear whltea about aa bad aa they treated the oolored. If Bob met a logre carrying aettea te the that was old missf son- in-law—said, fA calf loves the cow,f so he wouldn't let old miss whip met *I coma away from Alabama in f75* I lived in Tallulah, Louisiana eight years and the rest of the time I been here in Arkansas* *Ifve farmed most of the time* I owned one farm, forty-nine acres, but my boy got into trouble and I had to sell it* "Then I've been a engineer in sawmills and at gins* I used to be a round man—I could work any place* "Me? Vote? No, I never did believe in votin1* I couldnft see no sense in it* They was mobbinf and killin1 too much for George Brown* I was a preacher—Baptist* I was a ordained preacher* I could marry fem* Oh Lord, I ain't preached in a long time* I got so I couldn't stand on my feet* nI been in the Church of God sixty-one years* Never been in any lawsuit or anything like that in my life* I always tried to keep out of trouble* *I 'member one time I come nearest to gettin' drowned in the Tombigbee River* We boys was in washin1 and we got to divin' and I div where it was too deep* When I come up, look like a world of water* A boy in a skiff come and broke right to me* I reckon I was unconscious, I didn't know what* But them boys wasn't unconscious* 283 "I think the younger generation is mighty bad# Therefs some exceptions but the general run is bad* Ifve seen the time you could go to a white man and he would help you but these young white folks, they turn from you** 30130 x^ J-Z-- Interviewer Bernice Bowden Person Interviewed J. N, Brown______ 3500 West 7th Ave. Age 79 Pine Bluff, Ark, Occupa tion Sells peanuts from wagon "Yes'm, I was livin' In slavery times - musta been - I was born in 1858, near Natchez, Mississippi - in town. "Old Daniel Virdin was my first master. I can halfway remember him. Oh Lord, I remember that shootin'. Used to clap my hands - called it foolishness. We kids didn't know no better. "I was in Camden, Arkansas when we was freed. Colored folks in them days was sold and run. My father was in Camden when we got free - he was sold. My mother was sold too. "I heared em say they had a good master and mistis, Man what bought em was named Brown. They runned us to Texas durin' the war and then come back here to Camden. "I never went to school. I was the oldest chile my fath- er had out a sixteen and I had to work. We had a kinda hard time. I stayed in Camden till I was eighteen and then I runned off from my folks and went to Texas, Times was so tight in Arkansas, and a cattleman come there and said they'd give me twenty-five dollars a month in Texas. I thought that would beat just something to eat. I been workin' for the white folks and just gettin' a little grub and not makin' any money. "In Texas I worked for some good white folks. John Worth Bennet was the man who owned the ranch. I stayed there seven 284 2. years and saved my money, I was just nacherly a good nigger. That was in Hopkins County, Texas. "I've got a good memory. That's all I got to study bout is how to take care of the situation, I was livin' there in that country in 1882, fore the Spanish-American %r, "I come back here to Arkansas in 1900, My father was named Nelson Brown, He preached. My mother's name was Sally Brown, "Long in that time we tried to vote but we didn't know 'zactly what we was doin, I think I voted once or twice, but if a nan can't read or write and have to have somebody make out his ticket, he don't know what he's votin', so I just quit tryin' to vote, "Now about this younger generation, you've asked me a ques- tion it's hard for me to answer. With all these nineteenth cen- tury niggers, the more education they got, the bigger crooks they is. "We colored people are livin' under the law, but we don't make no laws. You take a one-armed man and he can't do what a two-armed man can. The colored man in the south is a one-armed man, but of course the colored man can't get along without the white folks. But I've lived in this world long enough to know what the cause is - I know why the colored man is a one-armed man," Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person interviewed lewis Brown 708 Oak Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Ags 83 "Yes'm my name is Brown — Lewis Brown* Yes'm I lived durin' slavery times* I was born in 1854» "I been workin1 this mornin'. I been diggin' up the ground to bed up some onions* No I donft work every day* Sometimes I feel ailin' — don't feel like doin' nothing "I wasn't big enough to 'member 'bout the war* All I 'member is seein' the soldiers retirin' from the war* They come by my old master's plantation. The Yankees was in front — they was the horsebackers* Then come the wagons and then the southern soldiers comin' along in droves. "I was born in Arkansas* My mother and father belonged to Dr* Jordan* He was the biggest slaveholder in Arkansas* He was called the 'Nigger Ruler'* If the overseer couldn't make a slave behave, the old doctor went out with a gun and shot him. Ihen the slaves on other plantations couldn't be ruled, they was sold to Dr. Jordan and he ruled 'em or killed 'em* "I don't 'member much else 'bout my old master but I 'member my old mistress* The last crop she made before freedom, she had two plantations with overseers on 'em and on one plantation they didn't 'low no kind a slave 'cept South Carllnans. But on the other plantation the slaves come from different places* 2- 287 "After the war we went to Texas and X f member my old mistress come down there to get her old colored folks to come hack to Arkansas* Lots of fem went back with her* She called herself givin9 fem a home. I donft know what she paid — I never heard a breath of that but she hoped fem to get back. I didnft go *— I stayed in Texas and growed up and married there and then come back to Arkansas in 1882. "Oh yesfm — the Ku Klux was plentiful after peace* They went about robbin* people* "Some of the colored folks thought they was better off when they was slaves* They was the ones that had good masters* Some of the masters didnft flow the overseers to fbuke the slaves and some wouldnft have overseers* "I never did vote for no President, just for home officers* I don't know what to say fbout not letting the colored folks vote now* They have to pay taxes and 'spenses and I think they ought to have something to say 'bout things* * fHow did you lose your arm?1 It was shot off* I got into a argument with a fellow what owed me twenty-four dollars* He decided to pay me off that way* That was when I was fbout seventy* Hefs dead now* "I think the people is more wickeder now* The devil got more chances than he used to have and the people can't do right if they want to** 80679 FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Name of interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Subject Humorous Tales of Slavery Days Story ~ Information (If not enough space on this page, add page) "I was born in 1854 and f cofse I wasnft big enough to work much in slavery times, but one thing I did do and that was to tote watermelons for the overseer and pile vem on the porch* «I 'member he said if we dropped one and broke it, wefd have to stop right there and eat the whole thing* I know I broke one on purpose so I could eat it and I 'member he made me scrape the rind and drink the juice* I know I eat till I was tired of that water- melon* "And then there was a lake old master told us to stay out of* If he caught you in it, hefd take you by the shirt collar and your heels and throw you back in* "I know he nearly drowned me once*11 IMs information given by Lewis Bro«a ( ) Place of residence 808 W* Eighth, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Occupation______________Retired minister______________Age 84 .•30681 g FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Name of interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden____________ Sabj ect Child Rearing Customs of Early Days Story - Information (If not enough space on this page, add page) *In them days, folks raised one another9 a chillun* If a child was at your house and misbehaved, you whipped him and sent him home and his mother give him another whippin1• •And you better not fspute your parental* This information given by Lewis Brown ( ) Place of residence_____802 W» Eighth. Pine Bluff. Arkansas Occupation__________None, retired minister Age 84 oGo49 #721 oqn POEM A * cou Circumstances of Interview STATi—Arkansas 8AJ& OF WBKER—Samuel S. Taylor ADDRESS—Little Rock, Arkansas DATE—December, 1938 SUBJECT—Ex-slave 1* Hams and address of informant—Lewis Brown, 2100 Pulaski Street, Little Rock 2* Date and time of interview— 3. Place of interview—-2100 Pulaski Street, Little Hock, Arkansas 4« Name and address of person, if any, who put you in touch with informant— 5. Name and address of person, if any, accompanying you— 6. Description of room, house, surroundings, etc.— #?& 291 50 EM B Personal History of Informant STATE—Arkansas SAME Op vraRKEB— Samuel S. Taylor ADDRESS—Little Rock, iirkansas DATE—December, 1938 SUBJECT—Ex-slave HASffi AI;D ADDRESS OF IMPOiilANT—Lewis Brown, 2100 Pulaski Street, Little Bock. 1. Ancestry—father, Lewis Bronson; mother, ;;Iillie Bronson. 2. Place and date of birth—Born April 14, 1855 in Kemper County, Mississippi. 3. Family—Five children. 4# Places lived in, with dates— Lived in Mississippi until the eighties, then moved to Helena, Arkansas. Moved from Helena to Little Rock, 5. Education, with dates— 6. Occupations and accomplishments, with dates—Farming. 7# Special skills and interests— 6. Community and religious activities—Belongs to Baptist Church. 9. Description of informant— 10. Other points gained in interview—Facts concerning child life, status of colored girls, patrollers, marriage and sex relationships, churches and amuse- ment s. FORM C . COi. Text of Interview (Unedited) STATE—Arkansas NAtfB OF WORKER—Samuel S. Taylor ADDRESS—Little Rock, Arkansas DATE—December, 1938 SUBJECT—Ex-slave NAME AHD ADDRESS OP IHEOEMAKT--Lewis Brown, 2100 Pulaski Street, Little Rock. ***** *** ** **** ****** **** ** * ** * ********** * "I was horn in 1855, April 14, in Kemper County, Mississippi, close to Meridian. I drove gin wagons in the time of the war in a horse-power gin. I carried matches and candles down to weigh cotton with in slavery times. "They had to pick cotton till dark. They had to tote their weight hun- dred pounds, two pounds, whatever it was down to the weighing place and they had to weigh it. Whatever you lacked of having your weight, you would get a lick for. On down till they called us out for the war, that was the way it was. They were gpin' to give my hrother fifty lashes "but they come and took him to the army, and they didn't git to whip him. fflvly father wa3 Lewis i$ronson. He come from South Carolina, My mother was stole. The speculators stole her and they "brought her to Kemper County, Mississippi, and sold her. Hty mother's name was Millie. ily father's o-ner was Elijah LfcCoy. Old Elijah McCoy was the Owner, hut they didn't take his name. They went hack to the old standard mark after the surrender. They went hack to the people where they come from, and they changed their names — they changed off of them old names. LfcCoys was my masters, but my father went hack to the name of the people way hack over in there in South Carolina, where he come from. I don't know nothin' bout them. He was the father of nine chil- dren. He had two wives. One of them he had nine "by, and the other one he had none hy. So he went hack to the one he had the nine children hy. -2. , 29B Early Life WI was ten years old when war was ended* I had to carry matches and candles to the cotton pickers* It vwould "be too dark for them to weigh up* They couldnft see* They had tasks and they would "be picking till late to git their tasks done* Matches and candles come from the "big house, and I had to bring it down to them* That was two years before the war* nI wasnft big enough to do nothing else, only drive to the gin* I drove horse-power to the gin*—drove mules to the gin* I would drive the cows out to the pasture too* The milk women would milk them* Lawd, I could not do no milking* I was too small* The milk women would milk them and I would drive the cows one way and the calves another so that they couldn't mix* And at night I would go git them and they would milk them again* The milk women milked them* What would I know bout milkin. HI never did any playinff fcept plain marbles and goin1 in swimmin1* Schooling "The vifaite girls and boys learned us our A-B-Cfs after the war. They had a free school in Kemper County there* My children I learnt them myself or had it done* You couldn't hardly ever find one in Kemper Country that could spell and go on* They didnft have no time for that* Some few of them learned their A-B^Cfs before the war. But that is all* They learned what they learned after the war in the free government schools mostly* They would not do nothinf to you if they caught you learninf in slave time* Sometimes the \4iite children would teach you your A-B-Cfs. Status of Colored Girls "They had mighty mean ways in that country* They would catch young col- ored girls and whip them and make them do what they wanted. There wasn't but -3- 291 one mean one on our place. He was ordered to go to war and he didnft; so they pressed him. He was the one that promised my "brother a whipping. He left like this morning and come back a week from today dead. The rest of them was pretty good. The mean one was Elijah. Master1s Sons "Old man McCoy had four sons; Elijah, that was the mean one, Redder, Nelson, CIsqu Patrollers "Sometimes the pateroles would do the devil with you if they caught you out without a pass. You could go anywhere you pleased if you had a pass. But if you didnft have a pass, they'd give you the devil. Marriage and Sex Eelationships HYou could have one wife over here and another one over there if you wanted to* My daddy had two women. And he quit the one that didnft have no children. People weren't no more fn dogs them days,~werenft as much as dogs. Mother and Fathers Work MIn slavery time, my father worked at the field* Plowed and hoed and made cotton and corn — what else was he goinf to do. Hy toother was a cook. Sustenance HMy master fed us and clothed us and give us something to eat. Some of them was hell a mile. Some of them was all kinds of ways. Our people was good* One of them was mean. Fatherfs Brother TMy father's brother belonged to Elijah. I had an auntie over in there too. I don't know what become of them all. They were all in Kemper county, Mississippi. -4- 23$ Churches nThe white people had churches in slavery times just like they have now* The white people would have service one a month* But like these street cars* $hite people would "be at the front and colored would fill up hack* They'll quit that after a while* Sometimes thqy would have church in the morning for the white folks and church in the evening for the colored* They would baptize you just like they would anybody else* nIfll tall you what was done in slave time. They'd sing and pray* The white folks would take you to the creek and baptize you like anybody else* "Sometimes the slaves would be off and have prayer meetings of their own— nothing but colored people there* They soon got out uh that. "Sometimes they would turn a tut or pot down* That would be when they were making a lot of fuss and didn't want to bother nobody. The uhite people wouldn't be against the meeting* But they wouldn't want to be disturbed* If you wanted to sing at night and didn't want nobody to he ar it, you could just take an old wash pot and turn it down—leave a little space for the air, and nobody could hear it. Amusement "The grown folks didn't have much amusement in slavery times* They had banjo, fiddle, melodian, and things like that* There wasn't no baseball in those days* I never seed none. They could dance all they wanted to their way. They danced the dotillions and the waltzes and breakdown steps, all such as that* pick banjo! U-umphI They would give corn huskins; they would go and shuck corn, and shuck so much* Get through shucking, they viculd give you dinner. Sometimes big rich white people would give dances out in the yard and look at their way of dancing, and doing. Violin players would be colored* -5- 296 "Have cotton picking too sometimes at night, raoonshiney nights. That's when theyfd give the cotton pickings. Say you didn't have many hands, fhen theyfd go and said you one hand from this place and one from that place* And so on. Tour friends would do all that for you. Between fem theyfd git up a big hunch of hands* Then they'd give the cotton picking, and git your field clared up. They'd give you somethii^ to eat and whiskey to drink. How Freedom Came "Notice was given to my father that he was free. White people in that country give it to him. I donft know what they said to my father. Then the last gun was fired. I don't know where peace was declared. Notice come how that everybody was free. Told my daddy, 'You're just as free as I am.f Some went back to their daddy's name* Some went back to their master's name* -My daddy went back to his old master's name. Right after the #ar "First year after the war, they planted a crop* Didn't raise no cotton during the war, from the time the war started till it ended, they didn't raise no cotton* nAfter the war, they give the colored people corn and cotton, one-third and one-fourth* They wuld haul a load of it up during the war I mean, during the time before the war, and give it to the colored people. "They had two crops• Ho cotton in the time of the war, nothing but corn and peas and potatoes and so on* All that went to the white people. But they divided it* They give all so much round. Had a bin for the white and a bin for the colored. The next year they commenced with the third and fourth business— third of the cotton and fourth of the corn. You could have all the peanuts you wanted* You could sell your corn but they would only give you fifty cents for it — fifty cents a bushel. -6- 291 "My father farmed and sharecropped for a while after the war* He changed from his master's place the second year and wait on another place* He farmed all his life. He raised all his children and got wore out and pore* He died in Kemper County, Mississippi* All his childrea and everything was raised there* Life Since the War lfI came to Arkansas in the eighties. Come to Helena* I did carpenter and farm work in Helena* I made three crops, one for Phil Maddox, two with Mis* Hobbs. I come from Helena here. nI married in Mississippi in Roland Forks, sixty miles 1his side of Vicksburg. I had two toys and three girls. Two girls didtd in Helena* One died in Roland Porks before I come to Helena. Nary one of the hoys didn't die. "I don't do no work now. This rheumatism 's got me down. I call that age. If I could wrk, I couldn't git nothing worth while. These niggers here won't pay you nothing they promise you. My hoy's got me to feed as long as I live now. I did a hatch of work for the colored people round here in the spring of the year and I ain't got no money for it yit. nI helong to the Mount Zion Baptist Church; I reckon I do. I got down sick so I couldn't go and I don't know whether they turned me OUT OR NO. I tell you, people don't care nothin ahout you when you get old or stricken down. They pretend they do, hut they don't. My mind is good and I got just as much ambition as I ever had* But I don't have the strength. I haven't got hut a few more days to lag round in this world. When you get old and stricken, nobody cares, children nor nobody else. 30373 ^ Zhterriewer_______________Miss Sallio C. Millar_________ ^: Parson interview* Mag Bream. Clarksrllle. Arkansas Age S3 •I was born in Horth Carolina and cone South with ay white folks* They was trying to git out of the war and run right into it* My mother died when Z was a baby* I don't remember my mother (that la what CW Hill !¦ ad.) no more than you do* Z left my white folks, than I waa(14) years old, wa lived out in the country. They was willing to keep me but after the war they was so poor* The girls told me if I eould eome to town and find work I had batter do it* Two of them eome nearly to town with ma* They told me I was free to coma to town and live with the colored folks* I didn't know what it meant to be free* I was just as free as I wanted to be with my white folks* then I got to town I sta^d with your aunt awhile than she sent ma down to stay with your grandma* A white girl who lived with them, like one of the family, learned me how to 000k and iron* Z knew how to wash* •Z don't know anything about the present generation* Z ain't been able to git out for the last year or two* Z think Z broke my foot, for Z had to go on crutches a long time* "The white folks always sung but Z don't know what they sung* Z didn't pay no tention to it then*" 298 30438 #m 299 Interviewer Mlae Irene Boberteon Person interviewed Hary Brown. Clarendon^ Arkansas Age Bora la 1860 "liana was bora in slavery but never sold* Grandma and bar husband was sold aad bruag eleven children to Crystal Springs. They was sold to Mr* Moakilwell* I was bora there* Grandma was bora la Virginia. Bar baak was eat all to pieeaa where she had beea beat by her master* Both of them was whooped. Be was a hostler aad blacksmith* "Vhea grandma was a young womaa she didn't hare ao children, ao her master thought sore she was barren* Be sold har to Taylors* Bare coma •long eleven children* Taylor sold them* ifter freedom she had another* Be was her oaliest boy* That was so funny to hear her tell it* I never could forglt it loag aa Z ever know a thing* Grandma'a baby child was seventy-four years old, 'eeptiag that boy what was a stole child* She died aot loag ago at Garpendale, Mississippi* I got the latter two weeks ago* Bat she had beea dead a while 'fore they writ to me* Bar name waa iunt Miny {afandb*?* She didn't have ao children* "Grandma said the first time she was sold—the first day of July—they put her in a trader yard la Virginia* She was crying and says, 'Take ma baok to my mama*' In old womaa said, 'You are up to be sold*' *Juat Helen, her sister, waa taking her husband something in the field* They fooled her away from her five little children. Grandma said she never was seea ao more* She waa much older thaa grandma. Oraadma stayed with har slavery husband till he died* 8* •Since freedom some people tried to steal my mama* She was a fast runner and could dance* day vented to make money out of her* They would bet on her race** At Lernet School they took about thirty-six children off in wagons* Mover could get trace of them* Mover seen nor heard of a one of them again* That was in this state at Leraet School years ago but since freedom* •I was born during the War soon after Master llonkilwell took mama over* He dldnf t ever buy her* llama died young but grandma lived to be over a hundred years old* She told me all I know about real olden times* •I just looks on in 'mazsment at this young generation* Btey is happy all right* Times not hard for them glib and well as they seeeis* Times have changed a sight since I was born in this world and still changing* Sometimes it seems like they are all right* Ag'ln times is tough on old folks like me* This is all in the Bible—about the times and folks changing** 300 30789 301 Interviewer________________Mis a Irene Robertson________ i ¦« ¦inn ¦!!!!¦! ¦¦ — ¦ M ¦ i ¦.........i ¦ mi in ¦ m ¦¦ m m m ¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦!¦¦!¦ i>»ii»iwi» w ¦¦ ¦ m miwn ¦ Person interviewed________Mattie Brown. Helena, Arkansas Age 75 *I heard mother say time and agfin I was a year and two months old the year of the surrender* I was born in Montgomery, Alabama* Mother was a milker and a house woman* Father died when I was a baby# Bother never married* There was three of us to raise* Ifm the youngest* "Sister was the regular little nurse girl for mother's mistress* I donft recollect her name* The baby was sickly and fretful* My sister set and rocked that baby all night long in a homemade cradle* Mother said shefd nod and go on* Mother thought she was too young to have to do that way* Mother stole her away the first year of the Civil War and let her go with some acquaintances of hers* They was colored folks* Mother said she had good owners* They was so good it didn't seem like slavery* The plantation belong to the woman* He was a preacher* He rode a circuit and was gone* They had a colored overseer or foreman like* She wanted a overseer just to be said she had one but he never agreed to it* He was a good man* "Mother said over in sight on a joining farm the overseers whooped somebody every day and more than that sometimes* She said some of the white men overseers was cruel* "Mother quilted for people and washed and ironed to raise us* After freedom mother sent for my sister* I don't recollect this but mother said when she heard of freedom she took me in her arms and left* The first I can recollect she was cooking for soldiers at the camps at Montgomery. Alabama* 2. 302 They had several cooks. We lived in our own house and mother washed and ironed for them some too. They paid her well for her work* •I recollect some of the good eating* We had big white rice and big soda crackers and the best meat I ever et. It was pickled pork. It was preserved in brine and shipped to the soldiers in hogheads (barrels)* We lived there till mother died and I can recollect that much. When mother died we had a hard time. I look back now and donYt see how we made it through. We washed and ironed mostly and had a mighty little bit to eat and nearly nothing to wear* It was hard times for us three children* I was the baby child. My brother hired out ?ben he could. We stuck together till we all married off.* 30472 303 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed_____Molly Brown Age 90 or over Brinkley, Ark« One morning early I (Irene Robertson) got off the bus and started up Main Street. I hadn't gone far before I noticed a small form of a woman. She wore men's heavy shoes, an old dark dress and a large fringed woolen shawl; the fringe was well gone and the shawl, once black, was now brown with age. I passed her and looked back into her face. I saw she was a Negro, dark brown. Her face was small with unusually nice features for a woman of her race. She carried a slick, knotted, heavy walking stick - a very nice-looking one. On the other arm was a rectangular split basket with wires run through for a handle and wrapped with a dirty white rag to keep the wire from cutting into her hand or arm. I stopped and said, "Auntie, could you direct me to Molly Brown's house?" "I'm her," she replied. "Well, I want to go home with you," "What you want to go out there for?" "I want you to tell me about times when you were a girl," I said, "I'm not going home yet, I got to get somethin' for dinner." "Well, you go ahead and I'll follow along," "Very well," she said. 2. 304 I window shopped outside, and I noticed she had a box of candy, but it was a 25^ box and had been opened, so I thought it may be nearly anything just put in the box. The next store she went into was a nice-looking meat market and grocery combined, I followed in behind her, A nice-looking middle-aged man gave her a bundle that was large enough to hold a 50^ meat roast. It was neatly tied, and the wrapping paper was white, I observed. She thanked him. She turned to me and said, "Give me a nickel." I said, "I don't have one," Then I said teasingly, "Why you think I have a nickel?" She said, "You look like it." I opened my purse and gave her a dime. She went over to the bread and picked up a loaf or two, feeling it. The same man said, "Let that alone," The old woman slowly went on out. I was amazed at his scold- ing. Then he said to me, "She begs up and down this street every day, cold or hot, rain or shine, and I have to watch her from the time she enters that door till she leaves, I give her scrap meat," he added, "How old is she?" "She was about fifty years old sixty years ago when she came to Brinkley, She is close to a hundred years. People say she has been here since soon after the town started," He remarked, "She won't spend that dime you gave her," "Well, I will go tell her what to buy with it," I replied, I hurried out lest I loose her. She had gained time on me and was crossing the Cotton Belt Ry, tracks. I caught up with her before she went into a small country grocery store on #70 5# 305 highway. She had passed several Negro stores, restaurants, etc. MI want a nickel's worth of meal, please, sir." I said, "Auntie, buy a dime's worth of meal," "I don't want but a nickel's worth." The man handed it to her to put in the basket, "Give me a piece candy." The merchant gave her a nice hard stick. She broke it half in to and offered me a piece. I said, "No, thank you, Auntie." She really wanted me to have it, but I refused it. She blowed her nose on her soiled old white underskirt. She wormed and went on out. I asked the merchant "How old is she?" "Bless her heart, I expect she is ninety years old or more, I give her some hard candy every time she comes in here, I give her a lot of things. She spends her money with me," Then I asked if she drew an Old Age Pension, ' He said, "I think she does, but that is about 30^ and it runs out before she gets another one. She begs a great deal." I lagged behind. The way she made her way across the Broad- way of America made me scringe. I crossed and caught up with her as she turned off to a path between a garage and blacksmith shop, I said, "Auntie, let me take your basket," She refused me, I said, "May I carry your meal or your meat?" "I don't know you," she said shortly, A jolly man at the side of the garage heard me. I said, "I'm all right, am I not" to the man. He said, "Aunt Molly, let her help you home. She is all 4- 306 right, I'm sure." I followed the path ahead of her. When we turned off across a grassy mesa the old woman said, "Here," and handed over her basket. I carried it. When we got to her house across a section of hay land at least a mile from town, she said, "Push that door open and go to the fire." An old Negro man, not her husband and no relation, got a very respectable rocking chair for me. He had a good fire in the fireplace. The old woman sat on a tall footstool. She was so cold. She said, "Bring me some water, please." A young yellow boy stepped out and gave her a cup of water. She drank it all. She put the meat bones and scrap meat on the coals in an iron pot in some water. She had the boy scald the meal, sprinkle salt in it and add a little cold water to it. He put it in an iron pan and put a heavy iron lid over it. The ket- tle was iron. The boy set it aside and put the bread on hot em~ bers. She sat down and said, BI*m hungry. I said, "Auntie, what have you in that box?" She reached to her basket, untied some coins from the corner of the soiled rag - three pennies and a nickel. She untied her ragged hose - she wore two pairs - tied above the knee with a string, and slipped the money to the foot and in her heavy shoes. It looked safe. Then the old Negro man came in with an armfull of scrub wood and placed it by the fireplace on the floor. He said, "The Government sent me here to live and take care of Aunt Molly. She been sick. I build her fires, and me and that boy wait on her." 5# 307 I asked, "Is the boy kin?* He said, "No'm, she's all alone." He went away and the boy went away. The old woman called them and offered them candy. She had twelve hard pieces of whitish, stale chocolate candy in the box. The boy refused and went away, but the old man took three pieces, I observed it well, when she passed it to me, for worms, I refused it. It seemed free from bugs though. She ate greedily and the old man went away. We were alone and she was warm. She talked freely till the old Negro man returned at one o'clock for dinner. Notwith- standing the fact the meal hadn't been sifted and the meat not washed, it looked so brown and nice in two pones and the meat smelled so good I left hurriedly before I weakened, for I was getting hungry from the aroma. "I was born at Edgefield County, South Carolina, and lived there till after I married." i "Did you have a wedding?" "I sure did." "Tell me about it," "I married at home, at night, had a supper, had a nice dance." "You did?" "I did." "Did a colored man marry you?" "Colored preacher - Jim Woods." "Did he say the ceremony?" "He read it out of a little book." 6» 308 "Did you have a nice supper?" "Course I did I White folks helped fix my weddin' supper. Had turkey, chickens, baked shoat, pies and cake - a table piled up full. Mama helped cook it, It was all cooked on fireplace. "How were you dressed?" "Dressed like folks dressed to marry." "How was that?" "I wore three or four starched underskirts trimmed in ruf- fles and a white dress over em. I wore a long lacy vail of net." "Did you go away?" "I lived close to my ma and always lived close bout her. I was called a first class lady then." "You were," "My parents name Tempy Harris and Albert Harris. She was a cook. He was a farmer. They had five children. The reason I come to Arkansas was cause brother Albert and Caroline come here and kept writin' for us to come. My folks belong to the Harrises. I don't know no thin' bout em - been too long - and I never fooled round their houses. Some my folks belong to the Joneses. They kinfolks of the Harrises. "Ho, I never saw no one sold nor hung neither. "Remember grandpa. His daddy was a white man. His wife was a black woman. Mama was a brown woman like I is, "I ain't had narry child. My mother died here in this house. Way me an my husband paid for the house, he farmed for Jim Black and Mr. G-unn. I cooked for Jim Woodfin. Then I run a roomin' house till four years ago. Four years ago I went to South Carolina to see my auntie. Her name Julia. They all had more 'n I had. She'd 7, 309 dead now. All of em dead bout it. She was a light woman - Julia, Her pa was a white man; her ma a light woman, Julia considered wealthy, MI don't know nothin' bout freedom, I seen the soldiers, I seen both kinds. The white folks was good to us. We stayed on. Then we went to Albany, Georgia, We lived there a long time - lived in Florida a long time, then come here, "The Joneses and Harrises had two or three families all I know. They didn't have no big sight of land. They was good to . us, I picked up chips, put em in the boxes. Picked em up in my dress, course; I fetched up water. We had rocked wells and springs, too. We lived with man named Holman in Georgia, We farmed, I used to be called a smart woman, till I done got not able. My grandpa was a white man; mama's pa, "What I been doin' from 1864 - 1937? What ain't I doneJ Farmin', I told you, Buildin' fences was common, Feedin' hogs, milkin1 cows, churnin', We raised hogs and cows and kept some- thin' to eat at home, I knit sox, I spin, I never weaved. Folks wore clothes then. They don't wear none now. Pieced quilts. Could I sew? Course I didJ Got a machine there now, (pointed to an old one,) "I never seen no Ku Klux, I hid if they was about. I sure did hear bout em. They didn't never come on our place, "I told you I never knowed when freedom come on, "I went to school in South Carolina. I went a little four or five years. I could read, spell, cipher on a slate. Course I learned to write. Course I got whoopins; got a heap o1 whoopins. People tended to childern then. What kind books did we have ? I 8. read and spelled out of the Blue Back Speller, We had numbers on our slates. The teacher set us copies. We wrote with soap- stone. Some teachers white and some colored, "Well, course I got a Bible, (disgusted at the question), 1 go to church and preachin' every Sunday, Yes, ma'am, now, "I don't study votin', I don't vote, (disgusted), I rec- kon my husband and pa did vote, I ain't voted, "Course I go to town, I go to keep from gettin' hungry, "Me and this old man get demodities and I get some money. "I told you I don't bother young folks business, I thought I told you I don't. If I young I could raise some thin' at home that the reason I go hungry, I give down, I know I do get hun- gry. "One thing I didn't tell you, I made tallow candles when I was a young woman. "I don't know nothin' bout that Civil War." 30793 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson________ Person interviewed_________Peter Brown. Helena. Arkansas Age 86 "I was born on the Woodlawn place# It was owned by David and Ann Hunt. I was born a slave boy* Master Hunt had two sons and one girl# Bigy and Dunbar was the boys1 names* Annie was the girl's name. "My parents1 names was Jane and William Brown. Papa said he was a little shirt tail boy when the stars fell. Grandma Sofa and Grandpa Peter Bane lived on the same place. I'm named after him. Ify papa come from Tennessee to Mississippi. I never heard ma say where she come from* "My remembrance of slavery is not at tall favorable. I heard the master and overseers whooping the slaves b9fore day. They had stakes fixed in the ground and tied them down on their stomachs stretched out and they beat them with a bull whoop (cowhide woven). They would break the blisters on them with white oak paddles that had holes in it so it would suck. They be saying, f0h pray, master.f Hefd say, 'Better pray fer yourself.1 I heard that going on when I was a child morning after morning. I wasn't big enough to go to the field. I didn't have a hard time then. Ma had to work when she wasn't able. Pa stole her out and one night a small panther amelled them and come on a log up over where they slept in a cane brake* Pa killed it with a bo«Le knife. Ma had a baby out there in the eanebraks* Pa had stole her out. They went back and they never made her work no more* She was a fast breeder; she had three sets of twins. They told him if he would stay out of the woods they wouldn't make her work no moref e* take care of her children* They prized fast breeders* They would come to see her and bring her things then* She had ten children, three pairs of twins* Jonas and Sofa, Peter and Alice, Isaac and Jacob* "When I was fifteen years old, mother said, 'Peter, you are fifteen years old today; you was born March 1, 1852.f She told me that two or three times and I kept up wid it* I am glad I did; she died right after that* "Ma and pa et dinner, well as could be* Took cholera, was dead at twelve o'clock that night* It was on Monday* Ike and Jake took it* They got over It* I waited on the little things* One of them said, fPeter, I'm hungry.1 I broiled some meat, made a ash cake and put the meat in where I split the ash cake* He et it and went to sleep* He started mending* Sister come and got the children and took them to Lake Providence* I fell in the hands then of some cruel people* They had a doctor named Dr. Goleman come to see ma and pa* He said, 'Don't eat no fruit, no vegetables*' He said, 'Eat meat and bread*9 I et green plums and peaches like a boy fifteen years old then would do* I never did have cholera* A boy fifteen years old didnYt know as much as boys do now that age* The master died b'fore the cholera disease come on* le had moved from the hill place to a place in the bottoms* It was on the same place* None of his family had cholera but neighbors had it* We buried ma and pa on the neighbor's place* We had kin folks on the Harris place* While we was at the graveyard word come to dig two or three more graves* "Master's house was sot on fire, the smokehouse emptied, the gin burned and the cotton* The mules was drove out of the lot* That turned me agfin' the Yankees* We helped raise that meat they stole* They left us to starve and fed their fat selves on what was our living* I do not believe in parts s* of slavery* That whooping was cruel, but I know that the white man helped the slave in ways* The slaves was worked too herd* Ifen was no better than they are now* "My owner had two fine black horses name Night and Shade* Clem was a white driver* We lived close to Fiat where they had horse races* He told Clem to gat Night ready to win some money* He told Clem not to let nobody have their hand on the horse* Clem slept in the stable with the horse* They had three horses on the track* They made three rounds* Night lost three times, but on Friday Night come in and won the money. He made two or three thousand dollars and paid Clem* I never heard how much* Freedom "Some men come to our house searching for arms* We had a chest* They threw things winding* Said it was freedom* We didnft think much of such freedom* Had to take it* We didnft have no arms in the house* We never seen free times and didnft know what to look for nohow* We never felt times as good* We moved to the bottoms and I lost my parents* •I fell in the hands of some mean people* They worked me on the frozen ground barefooted* My feet frostbit* I wore a shirt dress and a britches leg cap on my head and ears* I had no shoes, no underwear* I slept on a bed made in the corner of a room called a bunk* It had bagging over straw and I covered with bagging* innt July (Julie) and Uncle Mass Harris coo» for me* Sister brought my horse pa left for me* They took me from them folks to stay at Mr* W. C. Winters* He was good to me* He give me fifty dollars and fed me and my horse* He give me good clothes and a house in his yard* I was hungry* He fattened me and my horse both* 4. •They broke the Bu KLux up by putting grapevines across the roads* I know about that* I never seen one of them in my life* •Election daya years gone by was big tines* I did vote* I voted regular a long time* The last President I voted for was Wilson* •I farmed and worked on steamboats on the Mississippi River* I was what they called rousterbout* I loaded and unloaded freight. I worked on the Choctaw, Jane White, late Adams, and other little boat8 a few days at a time* Kate Jdams burnt at Moons Landing* I stopped off here at Selena for Christmas* Some people got drowned and some burned to death* The mad clerk got lost* He went in and got two bags of silver money, put them in his pockets* The stave plank broke and he went down and never come up* He was at the shore nearly but nobody knew he had that silver in his pockets* He never come up and he drowned* Bsople seen him go in but the ethers swam out* He never come up* They missed him and found him dead and the two bags of silver* I waa due to be on there but I wanted to spend Christmas with grandma and my wife* The Ghoetaw carried ten thousand bales of cotton at times* I worked at the oil mill sixteen or seventeen years* I night watched on the transfer twenty-two years* I come to Helena when I was thirty years old* IYm eighty-six now* The worst thing I ever done was drink whiskey some* I done quit it* I have asthma* The doctors say whiskey is bad on that disease* I don9t teteh it now* •I think the present generation is crazy* I wish I had the chance they have now* The present times is getting better* I ask the lord to spare me to be one hundred years old* Ifm strong in the faith* I pray every day. He will open the way* The times have changed in my life** 314 30483 315 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson_________ Person interviewed______William Brown, Hazen, Arkansas Age 67 I was born in Virginia bat I was bom after slavery* I heard my folks talk a heap about oldern times. The way I come here was Dr. Hill brought bout 75 families down to Mississippi to work on farms* I come to Deer Creek close to Sunflower, Mississippi. I lived there II years and I drifted to Arkansas* I donft remember if they was in any uprisings or not. If they was Ut^f rebellion cept the big rebellion I donft recall it. My whole families was in de heat of the war. My mother and father fs owner was John Staiith. I recollects hearin them talk bout him well as if it was yesterday - we worked on McFowell place close to Petersburg, Virginia when I was little* Then I worked for Miss Bessie and Mr. John Stewart last fore I come with Dr. Hill. I had lived up there but he come and settled down in Miss- issippi* The first place I worked on in Arkansas was the John Reeds bout 3 miles from Danville. I stayed there 3 years. My folks stayed on there but I rambled to Little Rock. I worked with Mr. L. C. Merrill. I milked cows and cut grass, fed cows. He has a automobile campany in Little Rock now. I farmed bout all my life. Now I donft own nothing* I stays at my daughters. I been married twice. Both my wives dead. 2. 316 The times change so much I donft know whether they any better or not* The black race ain't never had nuthin - some few gets a little headway once in a while • I used to vote some - didn't care nuthin bout it much# Never seed no good come of it# Heap of them vote tickets like somebody tell em or don't know how dey vote# The young generations better off than the old folks now. The things change so fast I don't know how they will get by. 30844 317 Interviewer Vj Samuel S, Taylor Person Interviewed William Brown_______ 409 W. Twenty-Fifth Street Age 78 North Little Bock, Arkansas I t-Ci S* A-11*id¥ctsUtj* /7- -^&# _j "I was born in Arkansas in Cross County at the foot of Crowleyfs Ridge on the east side of the Ridge and just about twelve miles from Old Witts- burg, on May 3, 1861* I got the date from my mother* She kept dates by the old family Bible * I donft know where she got her learning. She had a knowledge of reading. I am about her sixth child. She was the mother of thirteen* "My mother1 s master was named Bill Neely* Her mistress was named Mag Neely. "My mother was one of the leading plow hands on Bill Neely *s farm. She had a old mule named Jane. When the Yankees would come down, Bill Neely and all his friends would leave home* They would leave when they would hear the cannon, because they said that meant the Yankees were coming* When Neely went away, he would carry my mother to do his cooking* "She would leave the children there and carry just the baby when she went* Old Aunt Malinda--she wasnft our aunt; she was just an old lady we called Aunt Malinda who cooked for the kitchen—would cook for us while she was gone* When the Yankees had passed through, my mother and the master would all come beck* "My original name was not Brown* It was Pope* I became Brown after the War was over* I moved on the old Barnes1 farm. When the soldiers were mustered out in the end of the War. a lot of soldiers worked on that place* Peter Brown, an old colored soldier mustered eat from Memphis, net ay mother, courted her, and married her, ill the other children that were bora to her were called Broaa, and the people called her Brown, and Juet called all the other children Broaa too, including ae. And I Juet let It go that way. But ay father aaa aaaad Harrison Pope* He died in the Confederate army oat there aomewherea around Little Book* He had riolated acme of the military laws, and they put hia in that thing they had to punish them by, and whan they taken him oat, he contracted pneumonia and died* X don't know where he la buried* I would to God I didJ You know whan these Southern armies want along they carried colored stevedores to do the work for them, Patrollera "I aaa a little fellow in the time of the paterolos. If the slares wanted to go out anywhere, they had to gat a paaa and they had to be back at a certain time* If they didn't get back, it would be acme kind of punishment. The paterolea aaa a mighty bad thing* If they caught yon when you were out without a pass, they would whip you unmercifully, and if you were out too late they would whip you* wherever colored people had a gathering, them paterolea would be there looking an to aee if they could find anybody without a paaa* If they did find anybody that couldn't show a paaa, they would take him right out and whip him than and there* Ku jpinr ¦I know the Zn ELux must have bean in use before the War because I remember the business when X was a little bit of a fellow* They had a plaee out there on Growley's Bidge they used to meat at* They tried to make the impression that they would be old Confederate soldiers that had bean killed *• 3J 9 in the battle of Shiloh, and they used to ride down from the Ridge hollering, fOhI Lordy, Lordy, Lordy!* They would have on those old uniforms and would call for water* Aad they would have some way of pouring the water down in a bag or something underneath their uniforms so that it would look like they could drink four or five gallons, •One night when they come galloping down on their horses hollering f0h! Lordy, Lordy1 like they used to, some Yankee soldiers stationed nearby tied ropes across the road and killed about twenty-five of the horses and broke legs and arms of about ten or fifteen* They never used the ridge any more after that* Parents "My father's master was Shep Pope and his wife was named Julia Pope* I canvt remember where my father was born but my mother was born In Tuscaloosa County, Alabama* I donft know the names of my grandfather and grandmother on either side* Slave Houses "The old slave house was a log house built out of hewed logs* The logs were scalped on each side to give it the appearance of a box house* Aad they said the logs would fit together better, too* They would chink up the cracks with grass and dirt—what they called fdobf* That is what they called chinking to keep the wind and rain out* *I was born in a one-room hut with a clapboard room on one side for the kitchen and storeroom* They would go out in the woods and split out the clapboards* My mother had eight of we children in that room at one time* *• 320 Furniture *As to furniture, well, we had benches for chalrs# They were made out of punching four holes in a board and putting sticks in there for legs* That is what we sat on* Tables generally were nailed up with two legs out and with the wall to support the other side* The beds were made in a corner with one leg out and the two walls supporting the other sides* They called that bed the f Georgia Horsef ? We had an old cupboard made up in a corner* Food "Food was generally kept in the old cupboard my mother had* When she had too much for the cupboard, she put it in an old chlat* Bight After the War "Vty mother had eight children to feed* After the emancipation she had to hustle for all of them* She would go up to work—pick cotton, pull corn, or what not, and when she came home at night she had an old dog she called fColdy1• She would go out and say, 9Coldy, Coldy, put him up*1 And a little later, we would hear Coldy bark and she would go out and Coldy would have something treed* And she would take whatever he had--* possum, coon, or what not—and she would cook it, and we would have it for breakfast the next morning* "Mother used to go out on neighboring faxms and they would give her the scraps when they killed hogs and so on* One night she was coming home with some meat when she was attacked by wolves* Old Coldy was along and a little yellow dog* The dogs fought the wolves and while they were fighting* she slipped home* Next morning old Coldy showed up cut almost in two where the wolves had bitten him* We bandaged him up and took care of him* 5# -And he lived for two or mere years* The little yellow dog never did shew up no more. Mother said that the wolves mat have killed and eaten him* Schooling **I putt la about one month schooling whan I was a boy about six or seven years old* Then I saved into St* Iraneia County and want two weeks to a subscription school a few miles below Torraat City* Later I want back and took the examination in Cross County and paaaad it, and taught for a year* I got the bulk of my education by lamp light reeding* I have done some studying in other places—three years in Shorter Collage where I get the degrees of B* D. and D. D. at the age of fifty-five* I have preached for fifty-seven years and actually paatored for forty-four yeare. I followed farming la my early days* when Z first married my wife* we farmed there for ten or twelve years before Z entered the ministry* Z have been married fifty-seven years* "I was married January 15, 1882. I am now in the fifty-seventh year of marriage* my wife was named Mary Ulan Stubbe* She was from Beldwyn, Mississippi* They moved from Mississippi about the winter of 1880 and they made one crop in Arkansas before'we married* They stopped in our county and attended our churoh* Z met her in that way* She most remarkable thing was that during the time Z was acquainted with her our pastor became incapacitate and Z took charge of the church* Z ran a revival and she was converted during the revival* Bit aha joined the C. M. I. Church* Z belong to the A. M. X* 6* Stave Salsa "I remember ay aether carrying the children from the Bill Heely place to the Pope place* That Saturday evening after we got there, there came along aome slave trader*. They had with them as I remember some ten or twelve boy* and girls and some old folks that were able to work* They had them chained* Z aaked my mother what they were going to do with them and she said they were carrying them to Louisiana to work on a cane farm* One bey cried a lot* The next morning they put those slaves in the road and drove them down to Wlttebarg the same as you would drive a drove of cattle* fittsburg was where they caught the boat to go down to Louisiana* That was the beat mode of travel in those days* Opinions •In a few words, my opinion of the present is that our existence as Democrats and Bepubllcans is about played out* "If Mr. Roosevelt is eleeted for a third term, I think we will go into a dictatorship Just as Russia, Germany, and Italy have already dona* I think we are nearer to that now than we have ever been before* I do net think that Mr. Roosevelt will become a dictator, but I do believe that his being eleeted a third time will cause aome one else to become dictator* My opinion la that he is neither Democrat nor Republican* •Our young people are advancing from a literary point of view, but I claim that they are losing out along moral lines. I don't believe that we value morals as well as the people did years ago who didn't know so much* I believe that the whole nation, white and black, is losing moral stamina* fhey do not think it is bad to kill a man, take another man's wife or rob a bank, or anything else. They desecrate the churches by carrying anything ?• into the church. There is no sacred plaee now* Carnivals and ererything else are carried to the church* "If Mr* Beoaevelt is not reelected again, the country is going to have one of the bloodiest wars it has eTer had because we haye so aany European doctrines cooing into the United States* I hare bean living seventy-eight years, and I never thought that I would lire to see the day when the government would reach out and take hold of things like it has done—the IPA, the JBRa, and the 3£C, end other work going on today* We are headed for eoawoiniam and we are going to get in a bloody war* Stare are hundreds of men going 'round who believe in paesainisB but who don't want it to be known now** 30827 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Maggie Broyles* Itorreat City. Arkansas Age About 80? "I was born in Decatur, Tennessee* Mother was sold on the block at public auction in St. Louis. Master Bob Young bought a boy and a "girl. My father was a full-blood Irishman* His name was Lassiter* She didn't have no more children by him* He was hired help on Bob Young's place. "Bob Young had one thousand five Jtiundred acres of land* He had several farms* Little Hill and Creek faims* They had a rock walk from the kitchen to the house* I slept in a little trunnel bed under my mother's mistress9 bed* The bed was corded and had a crank. They used no slats in them days* We called Master Bob Young's wife Miss Nippy; her name was Per/nel/i/py. They was good old people* His boys was rough. They drunk and wasted the property. *The white folks had feather beds and the slaves had grass beds* We'd pull grass and cure it. It made a'good bed* Miss Nippy learnt us to work. I know how to do near fbout anything now* She kept an ash hopper dripping all the time* We made all our soap and lye hominy by the washpots full* Mother cooked and washed and kept house* She took the lead wld the house- work. Miss Nippy ride off when she got ready* Mother went right on wid the work* I took care of the chickens and took the cows to the pasture* I helped to wash clothes* I stood on a block to turn meat* We had a brick stove and a grill to fry meat on# We had good clothes and good to eat# After I was grown Ifd go back to see Mlas Nippy. She raised me* She say* *. 325 11 thought so much of your mamau I love you* I hope you live a long time*' Mama had a hard time and Miss Nippy knowd all about it* •After Bob Young bought mother he went back and bougit Aunt Sarah* They growed up together* They could dance with a glass of water on their heads and never spill a drap* "Ma said when she married they had a corn shucking and a big dinner four o'clock in the morning* Her name was Luiza* She had two children by him* Aunt Jane on Welches place took him away from her* He quit mother cold to go wid her* After freedom she married Ben Pitts* The way she married at the corn shucking> they jumped over the broom back'ards and Master Bob Young fnounced it* She was killed no time after freedom, but she had had six children* Bliss Hippy kept me* She was good to me and trained me to read* We all never left after freedom* I never left till I was good and grown* *I always thought Master Bob Young buried his money during the War* Children wasn*t allowed to watch and ask questions* I was standing in the chimney corner and seen him bury a box of something in the flower garden* I was in Miss Hippy* s room* I never did know if it was money or what* He had a old yaller dog followed him all the time* Truman was a speckled dog set about on the front porch to bark* •Sam, the boy that was bought when I was in St* Louis, was hard to control* Bob Young beat him* He died* They said he killed him* They buried him in the white folksf cemetery. "They celebrated Christmas visiting and big parties* We would have eggnog and ten or fifteen cakes* Master Bob Young was a consump- tive. He had it thirty-five years* fhey all died out with it# 336 They kept a big ten or fifteen gallon demijohn with willow woven around the bottom fall of whiskey, all the time upstairs* They kept the door locked* •I stole miny ah drink* Find the door unlocked* I got too much one time* It made me sick* I thought I had a chill* She thought I been upstairs* They was particular with the children, both black and white then* They put the children to bed by sundown and they would set around the fire and talk* She raised Slnora and the baby Altona after mother got killed* She give them good clothes and good to eat* Their papa took the boy* He left after mother got killed* We took a pride in the place like it was our own* We didn't know but what it was our very own* "We had a acre in garden* We raised everything* We had three or four thousand pounds of meat and three cribs of corn* I ketched it when I left them* I made thirty-three crops in my life* My children all grown and gone* My son-in-law died* He had dropsy eight months* He had a dead liver* Ifve wanted since he died* Ifve had a hard time since he died* He was a worker and so good to us all* "Mother worked with a white woman* Mother was full-blood Indian her- self* The woman* s husband got to dealing with his daughter* She had three babies in all* They said they put them up in the ceiling, up in a loft* This old man got mad with Bob Young and burnt his gin* Mother seen him slipping around. They ask her but she wouldn't tell on him, for she didn't see him set it on fire* They measured the tracks* He got scared mother would tell on him* One night a colored man on the place come over* Her husband was gone somewhere and hadn't got home* She was cooking supper* They heard somebody but thought it was a pig come around* 4. Hogs run out all time. The step was a big limestone rock* She opened the door and put the hot lid of the skillet on it to cool* Stood it up side- ways * Then they heard a noise at that door* It was pegged* So she went along with the cooking* It wasn't late* He found a crack at the side of the stick and dirt chimney, put the muzzle of the gun in there and shot her through her heart* The man flew* She struggled to the edge of the bed and fell* The children was asleep and I was afraid to move* The moon come up* I couldn't get her on the bed* I put a pillow under her head and a quilt over her, but I didnft think she was dead* The baby cried in the night* I was so scared I put the eightHnonths-old baby down under there to nurse* It nursed* She was dead then* I think now* Hhen four o'clock come it was daylight. The little brother said, fI know what's the matter, our mama's dead** I went up to Mr* Bob Young's* He brought the coroners* I was so young I was afraid they was going to take us to jail* I asked little brother what they said they was going to do* He said, 'They are going to bury mama in a heep (deep) hole* They set out after her husband and chased him clear off* They thought he shot her by him not coming home that night and her cooking supper for him* "This white man left and went to Texas* His wife said the best woman in Decatur had been killed* They put him on the gallows for killing his daughter's babies, three of them and put them in the loft. He told how he killed mother* He had murdered four* He was afraid mother would tell about him* She knowd so much* She didn't tell* Indians don't tell* She wa3 with his girl when the first baby was born, but she thought it died and she thought the girl come home visiting, so his wife said she had told her to keep her from telling* It was a bad disgrace* His wife was a good, humble, kind woman. 3%7 5- 328 "Master Bob Young sent for Ben Pitts after they'd run him off, and he let him have his pick of us* He took the boy and lived on the place* Her other husband come and got his two children* Miss Nippy took our baby girl and the other little girl# I was raised up at her house, so she kept me on. Kept us all till we married off* *Ifd feel foolish to go try to vote* Ifm too old now* "I donft get help from the government yet* We are having a" hard time to scratch around and not go hungry** 829 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson________ Person interviewed_______Ida Bryant. Haaen* Arkansas (Very very black Negro woman) Age 61 "My mother was Hulda Williams* Grandpa was Jack Williams* Her mistress was a widow woman in slavery times* They lived in Louisiana* I was born close to Bastrop in Morehouse Parish* My father died when I was ten years old* He was old* I was a child * Things look different to you then you know* Grandpa was Hansen Terry, grandma Aggie Terry* They called pa Major Terry but he belong to Bill Tfelbot. Hansen Terry was a free man* He molded his own money* He died in South Carolina* Fa come from Edge field, South Carolina to Alabama* Stayed there awhile then come on to Louisiana* He slipped off from his master* Between South Carolina and Louisiana he walked forty miles* He rode all the other time* My folks always farmed* "Times have been getting some better all along since I was a chile* Times is a heap better now than I ever seen in my life* The young men depends on their wives to cook and make a living* They donft work much -- none of em* We old niggers doinf the wash in1 and the young women doin1 cookin1 and easy jobs. None of the men ainft workin1 to do no good* A few months in the year ainft no workin1* "I get commodities* I owns this house now* I bout paid it out* I washes three wash in fs a week* The rest of the time I pieces up quilts for myself* I need cover** 30734 # ^ y Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Belle Boutin. Marianne. Arkansas Age Up in 80* s •I never was sold. I was born in Oakland, Mississippi. My master said he wanted all he raised. He never sold one. He bought my mother in Lexington County. She was a field hand. Our owners was Master Johnson Buntin and Mistress Sue Buntin. They had two children—*Bob and Fannie* He had a big plantation and four families of slaves. Charlotte was the cook* Myra worked at the house and in the field. He had seven little colored boys and two little colored girls. I spent most of my time up at the house playing with Bob and Fannie. When mistress whooped one she whooped all three. She would whoop us for stealing her riding horse out. We would bridle it and all three ride and ride. We got several whoopings about that* *I have seen colored folks sold at Oakland* They had a block and nigger traders come. One trader would go and see a fine baby. He keep on till he got it. Ifve seen them take babies from the motherfs arm and if the mother dare cry, they would git a beatin*. They look like they bust over their grief• •If you was out after seven of clock the patrollers git you. They would beat and take you home. Some masters say to them, 'You done right/ and some say, fYou bring my hands home; I'll whoop them myself.1 "The patrollers caught one of Gaddises women and whooped her awful for coming to town on Sunday* I never did know why she went to town that way* a. 331 *ttiat selling was awful and crowds come to see how they sell* They acted like it was a picnic* Some women was always there, come with their husbands* Some women sold slaves and some bought them* *I nern did see none sell naked* I seen men took from their wives and mothers and children* let me tell you they didnft have no squalling around or they would get took off and a beating* •Master Alex Buntin was Vr. Buntin. He said, 'I worked like one of my slaves and bought my slaves with what I made and I am not going to have them 1 bused by the patrollers* George and Kit and Johnson was his cousins* Kit wasn9t so good to his slaves* *It was my job to brush the flies off the table* I had a fly brush* I would eat out of Bob's and Fanniefs plates* Miss Sue say, 'Bell, I'm going to whoop you*1 I say, 'Miss Sue, please don't, I'm hungry too#f She say* 'You stop playing and eat first next time.' Then she'd put some more on their plates* We sot on a bench at the table* We et the same the white folks did all cooked up together* •One time Dr. Buntin got awful mad* The dogs found some whiskey in a cave one of his slaves had hid there* They would steal and hide it in a cave* He got a beating and they washed it in salt water to keep them from getting sore and stiff* •Some folks kept dogs trained to hunt runaway niggers* They was fat* and you better not hit one or hurt it if it did bite or you would git a awful beating* '•Master Hex was a legislator* He had to leave when the Yankees come through* They killed all the legislators* I loved him* He run a store and we three children went to the store to see him nearly every day* He took us all three on his knees at the same time* I loved him* 3- 332 When he was gone, I said, fMiss Sue, where is Master Alex?1 She say, 'Maybe he be back pretty soon*9 While he was gone they had a battle in a little skirt of woods close by* We hung to Miss Sue's skirt tail* I seen the Yankees run by on horses and some walking* Mr. Jordan, a southern soldier, was shot in his ribs* Mr. Buford was shot in his knee* Some of the other southern soldiers drug them up to our house* Miss Sue nursed them* I think they got well and went home* •Three days before Master Hex left they sent all the stock off and put the turkeys and geese under the house, and chickens too. It was dark so they kept pretty quiet* When the Yankees got there they stripped the smoke- house* We had a lots of msat and they busted the storehouse open and strowed (strewed) meat and flour all along the road* They hired Maaaiy (Charlotte) to cook a big meal for them* She told the man she was Yfraid Miss Sue whoop her* He said, fWhooping time near fbout out*1 Ee asked her fbout some chickens but she wasnft go in1 to tell him f cause it was her living too for them to waste up* They never found the geese, turkeys, and chickens* They rambled all through the house looking for Master Alex and went through every drawer and closet upstairs and down* It was scandalous* They had Miss Sue walking and crying and us three children clinging to her skirt tail scared to death and crying too* When they left, the big lieutenant rode off ahead on a fine gray horse* They come back iben we just got the table sot and et every crumb of our dinner* They was a lively gang* I hate fem* I was hungry* Rations was scarce* They wasted the best we had* Master Alex had three stores and he kept the middle one* 4. Freedom mistress told all Master Alex's slaves they had been freed* The men all left* My mother left and took me* I got mad and went back and lived there till I married* Uaster Alex come back after two weeks* My mother soon died after the surrender* She died at Batesville, Mississippi* Lots of the slaves died* Their change of living killed lots of fem* My father lived on Sam BronoyYs (Brenough*s) place* Master Alex wanted to bay him but he took him on to Texas before I was born* I never did see him* *I been farming, cooking, wash and iron along* I been in Arkansas twelve or fourteen years* "How am I supported? Ifm not much supported* My boy don't have work much of the time* I donft get the pension* I trusts in the Lord* I belong to New Bethel Baptist Church down here* «Timea~~I don't know what to think* *My race is the under folks and I don't never say nothing to harm fem* Ifm one of fem* v Times is hardest in my life* I have to sit* I can't walk a step—creeping paralysis** 333 30486 Interviewer Mlsa Irene Bobertson__________ Person Interviewed Jeff Borage. Clarendon* Arkansas Age Born in 1864 or 1865. forgot which *I was born in Granville, Texas* My Blaster was Strathers Burgees and mistress Folly Burgees* My master died ffore I was born* He died on the way to Texas, trying to save his slaves* Keep them from leaving him and from going into the war* They didnft want to fight* His son was killed in the war* My folks didn't know they was free till three years after the war was over* They come hack to Caloche Bay, the old home place* There was a bureau at Be Vails Bluff* They had to let the slaves go and they was citizens then* My folks wasn't very anxious to leave the white owners because times was so funny and they didn't have nowhere to go* The courts was torn up powerful here in Arkansas* "Heap of meanness going on right after the war* One man tell you do this and another man say you better not do that you she get in trouble* It was hard to go straight* They said our master was a good man but awful rough wid his slaves and the hands overseeing too* Guess he was rough wid his family too. "Times is hard with me* I get $10 pension every month* I got no home now* I got me three hogs* I lives three miles from here (Clarendon)* •If I wasn't so old and no account I'd think the times the best ever* It's bad when you get old* I jess sees thev young folks* I don't know much about them* Seems lack they talk a lot of foolish chat to me* 8. I got a lot and a half in torn* They tore down my house and toted it off for fire wood* It waa rented* Then they moved out and wouldnH pay no rent* They kept doing that way* I never had a farm of my own* "I was good with a saw and axe* I cleared land and farmed* Once I worked on the railroad they was building* I drove pile mostly* Farm- ing is the best job and the best place to make a living* I found out that myself•* 335 70 " " ' *786 M6 Interviewer Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Norman Burkes________________________ 2305 West Eleventh Street, Fine Bluff, Arkansas Age 78 "I didn't quite make slavery* Me and freedom came here together. MI was born in Uhion County, Arkansas. My mother was born in Virginia and my father was an Alabamian. "I've heered 'em say how they done in slavery times* Whupped 'em and worked 'em and didn't feed 'em much. Said they'd average ajbout three pounds of meat a week and a peck of meal, a half gallon o' molasses. That was 'al- lowed the hands for a week. No sugar and no coffee. And they'd issue flour on Saturday so they could have Sunday morning biscuits. "My father was sold to Virginia and he and my mother was married there and they moved with their white people here to Arkansas. "Th$y called their owner old Master. Ies'mf I can remember him. Jfeny times as he whipped me I ought to remember him. I never will forget that old man. They claimed he was pretty good to 'em. He didn't vtoup 'em much, I don't think. "If my mother was livin' she could tell you everything about Virginia. She was one hundred and two i»hen she died. My folks is long livers. "My oldest brother was sold in Virginia and shipped down into Texas about ten years before I was born and I ain't never seen him. "They sold wives from their husbands and children from their parents and they couldn't help it. Just like this war business. Come and draft 'em and they couldn't help it. -2- ?I think the way things is now, they're goin to huild up another war." Extra Comment I was interviewing this man on the front porch and at this point, he got up and went into the house, so the interview was ended as far as he was con- cerhed* 30501 338 Interviewer_______Miss Irene Robertson_________ '¦¦'¦ ""'¦'' ' ' » Person interviewed Will Burks. Sr." Pine City, Ark. - 5 mi. from Holly Grove Age 75 "My parents names was Katherine Hill and Bill Burks* They had five boys and three girls* Their owners fur as I knows was Frank and Polly Burks* They had a heap of slaves* They was good white folks* My folks stayed on two or three years* They was both field hands* They had to go to the house and Master Frank Burks told em they was free. In 1880 Judge Scott paid their way and I come wid them to Forrest City* There was a crowd* He bought em out here to farm* We come Christmas 1880* I never will forgit that. It was jes different in a new country and left some of our folks an all that. MI was born close to Columbia, Tennessee* I used to see the soldiers pass long the big road, both sides* Seem lack theyd be in strings a mile long. I never heard much bout the war. They wouldn't let white nor black children set round and hear what they was talkin1 bout. Why they send em off to play - build playhouses outer rocks and hay, leaves, any little thing they throw way we take it to play house. White children played together then cause it was a long ways between white folks house, and colored children raised up wid em. I don't see none that now. "One thing I done a long time was stay at the toll gate. They had a heap of em when I was a boy. The fences was rock or rail and big old wooden gates round and on it marked, "Toll Gate." I'd open and shut the gate. Walkers go free. Horseback riders - 2. 33$ fifteen cents. Buggies - twenty-five cents. Wagons - fifty cents. The state broke that up and made new roads. Some they changed a little and used. After that I stand 'bout on roads through fields - short ways folks went but where the farmers had to keep closed up on count of the crops, I open and shut the gate. They'd throw me a nickel. That was first money I made - stayin' at toll gates about Columbia, Tennessee. "Ku Klux come to our house and took my papa off wid em. Mama was cryin', she told us children they was goiner hurt him. I recollect all bout it. They thought my papa knowed about some man bein' killed. My papa died wid knots on his neck where they hung him up wid ropes. It hurt him all his life after that. It made him sick what all they done to him tryin' to make him tell who killed somebody. He was laid up a long time. I recollect that. When they found out papa didn't know no thin' bout it, they said they was sorry they done him so mean. "I vote a Republican ticket lack my papa till I eluded it not the party, it is the man that rules right. I voted fur Mr. Roosevelt. I know he is. (A Democrat) I know'd it when I voted for him. Times is tough but they was worse 'fo he got elected. Things you buy gets higher and higher that makes it bad. We got two hogs, one cow, few chickens and a home. I owns my home for a fact. My wife is 73. I am purty nigh 75 years old. What make it hard on us, we is bout wore out. "I been farmin' and carpenterin' all my life. Last years I been farmin' wid Mr. L. M. Osborne at Osborne. We work forty acres and made 57 bales, I had a team and he had a team. So I worked it on halves. That was long time ago. In 1929 I believe. Best farmin' I ever done. We got twenty cents pound** 30336 Interviewer Mrs. Annie L. LaCotts_________ Person interviewed Adeline Burris. BsWitt. Arkansas Age 91 C-a-n.titr* Adeline Burris is a little old white-haired wrinkled^ faced mulatto or yellow Negro woman who says she was old enough to be working in the fields when the war began. According to her story she must hare been about 14 then which would make her at least 90 years old now. She looks ^ '<'<:,../ 14*r she might be a hundred* She is stooped and very feeble but can get around some days by the help of a stout walking stick) ana than shVs not able*** leave her bed for days at a time* She owns nothing and is living in the home of her daughter-in-law who is kind to and eares for her as best she oan* She says she was born in Marry County, Tennessee* Columbia was the county site* when asked if she was born during slavery time she said, "Tea, honey, my mammy was one of de slaves what belonged to Mr* Billie and Mias Liza Benfroe* Lord bless her heart she was good to my 0" mammy and her chillun! I had two little brothers, twins, and when dey come to dis world I can remember how our old mistress would come every Q day to see about dam and my mammy. She*d bring things to eat, clothes for the babies and everything else* Yes sir! My mother didn't want for anything as long as she stayed with Miss Lisa, not even after de Negroes was freed* When I was a little girl I was give to my young mistress, and I stayed with her till my folks was coming to Arkansas and I oome too*" z. 341 "Ihy did your folks move to Arkansas?91 •fell, you see we heard this was a good country and there was a white man come there to get a lot of niggers to farm for him down on the river and we come with him. He brought a lot of families on a big boat called a flat boat* We were days and nights floating down the river, fe landed at St* Charles* I married in about two years and haven91 ever lived anywhere else but Arkansas County end I9ve always been around good white folks* I'd been cold and hungry a lot of times if it wasn't for some of de&olessed white folkes9 chillen; dey comes to see me and brings me things to eat and clothes too, sometimes*" •How many tines did you marry, Aunt Add*?91 "Just one time; and I just had four ohillen, twins, two times* One child died out of each sit — just left me and Becky and Bob* Bob and Dover, his wife, couldn9t get along but I think most of it98 his fault9 for Dover9a just as good to me as she can be* My own child couldn9t be better to me den she is* "I donft know, honey9 but looks to me like niggers was better off in dem days den they are now* I know dey was if dey had good white folks like we did* Dey didn9t have to worry about rent, clothes, nor sumpin to eat* Dat was there for them* All they had to do was work and do right. Course I guess our master might not of been so good and kind ef we had been mean and laay, but you know none of us ever got a whippin9 In our life* •Honey, come back to see Aunt Add. sometime* I likes to talk to you** 30960 342: Interviewer Samuel 3. Taylor ____________ Person interviewed Jennie Butler______________ 3012 Short Main Street9 Little Rock, Arkansas Age Between 103 and 107 "I was born February 10, 1831 in Richmond, Virginia. I was a nurse raised by our white folks in the house with the Adamses• Sue Stanley (white and Indian) was my godmother, or fnursemotherY they called em then* She was a sister-in-law to Jay Goold9s wife* She married an Adams* I wasnft raised a little nigger child like they is in the South. I was raised like people* I wasn't no bastard* My father was Henry Crittenden, an Indian full blooded Creek* He was named after his father, Henry Crittenden* Ify mother's name was Louisa Virginia* Her parents were the Gibsons, same nationality as her husband* My fnursemotherf was a white woman, but she had English and Indian blood in her* My mother and father were married to each other just like young people are nowadays* None of my people were slaves and none of them owned any slaves* House "In Richmond, they lived in a little log cabin* Before I had so much trouble I could tell you all about it, but I never forget that little log cabin* That is near Oak Grove where Lincoln and Garfield and Nat Turner met and talked about slavery* FUrniture "We had oak furniture* We had a tall bed with a looking glass in the back of it, long bolsters, long pillow cases just like we used to make *• 343 long infant dresses* There were four rooms in the cabin. It was in the city. The kitchen was a little off from the house* Tou reached it by going through a little portico* Food *We ate bananas, oranges, hazelnuts, apples, fruit for every month in the year for breakfast, batter cakes, egg bread* The mornings we had egg bread we had flesh* For dinner and supper we had milk and butter and some kind of sweetness, and bread, of course* We had a boiled dinner* We raised everything—even peanuts* Clothes "We made everything we wore* Raised and made the cloth and the leather, and the clothes and the shoes* Contacts with Slaves and Slave Owners "I donft know nothin* about slavery. I didnft have nothin1 to do with them folks* We picked em up on our way in our travels and they had been treated like dogs and hadnft been told they were free. We'd tell em they was free and let em go* Leaving Richmond "All I can tell you is that we come on down and never stopped until we got to Memphis, and we tarried there twenty-five years* We came througjh Louisiana and Georgia on our way out here and picked up many slaves who didnft know they was free* They was using these little boats when we came out here* In Louisiana and Georgia when we came out here, they weren't thinkin1 bout telling the niggers they were free. And they werenft in Clarksville either* We landed in Little Rock and made it our headquarters* s. 344 Occupations "Christian work has been the banner of my life—labor work, giving messages about the Bible, teaching. Mostly they kept me riding--I mean with the doctors. When we were riding, the doctors didn't go in a mother1 s room; he sent the rider in. They call em nurses now and handle them indifferently. The doctor jus1 stopped in the parlor and made his money jus9 sitting there and we women did all the work. In 1912, I gave up my riding license. It was too rough for me in Arkansas. And then they wouldn't allow me anything either. ttNow I have a poor way of making a living because they have taken away everything from me. I prays and lives by the Bible. I canft get nothin* from my husbandfs endowment. He was an old soldier in the Civil War on the Confederate side and I used to get $30 a month from Pine Bluff. He was freed there. Wilson was President at the time I put in for an increase for him in the days of his sicknesa. He was down sick thirty years and only got $30 a month. The pension was increased to $60 for about one year. He died in 1917, March 10, and was in his ninetieth year or more from what he told me. The picture shows it too. Voting "Paying my taxes was the votin* I ever done. They never could get me to gee nor haw. There wasnft any use voting when you can see whatfs on the future before you. I never had many colored friends. None that voted. And very few Indians and just a few others. And them that stood by rae all the while, they're sleeping^ 4. 345 Thoughts of Young People *Don't know nothin1 bout these young folks today. Don't nothin1 spoil a duck but his bill. I have had a hard time. I am heavy and I'm jus1 walkin1 bout. A little talk with Jesus is all I have. I'll fall on ray knees and I'll walk as Jesus says. My heart's bleeding. I know I'm not no more welcome than a dog. "I pays for this little shack and when you come to sea me, you might as well come to that kitchen door. I ain't going to use no deceit with nobody. I'll show you the hole I have to go in." Interviewer's Comment I understand that Sister Butler gets a pension of $5 a month. Although her voice is vigorous, her mental powers are somewhat weak. She cannot remember the details of anything at all. She evidently had heard something about Nat Turner, but it would be hard to tell what. The Nat Turner Rebellion, so called, a fanatical affair which was as much opposed by the Negroes as by the whites, took place in Southampton County, Virginia, in August and September 1831, the same year in which Jennie Butler claims birth. She would naturally hear something about it, but she does not remember what. She had a newspaper clipping undated and minus the reading matter showing her husband's picture, and another showing herself, February 10f 1938, The Arkansas Democrat. :H)8JL3 346' Interviewer Mrs* Be mice Bowden Person interviewed^ Age 76 i« L. Byrd 618 N* Cedar, Pine Bluff, Arkansas *I was born in 1862. I just can remember the Yankees* They come through there and got horses and money and anything else they wanted* To my reasoning that's the reason the North has got more now* They got all the money they could find* And they took one fellow belonged to the same man I did. "My owner* s name was Jack Byrd* lie stayed with him about a year and then we farmed for ourselves* nI never went to school much* "Ify mother was a widow woman and I had to work. That was in South Carolina* "I come to Arkansas in 1890. I didnft marry till I was about thirty- seven. I got one child living. That's my daughter; I live with her* She's a bookkeeper for Perryfs Undertaking Company* *When I come to Arkansas I stopped down here in Ashley County* I farmed till I come to Pine Bluff. I been here forty years* I worked at the stave mills* I just worked for three different firms in forty years* "I used to own this place, but I had to let it go on account of taxes* Then my daughter bought it in* nI been tryin1 to get a pension but don't look like I'm go in* to get it* "I have to stay here with these children while my daughter works* It takes all she makes to keep things goin1.* 347' Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Bmmett Augusta Byrd« Marianne, Arkansas Age 85 *I was born in Washington County, Missouri, Ifm eighty-three years old* Motherfs owner was William Byrd* He got killed in a dispute over a horse* A horse trader shot him. His name was Cal Dony* Father fs owner was Byrd too. Mother was Miss Harriett Byrdfs cook* Yes, I knowed her very well* I was nine years old when I was stole* "Me and my older brother was both stole* His name was Hugh Byrd* We was just out* It was in September* A gang out stealing horses stole us* It was when Price made his last raid to Missouri* It was some of the soldiers from his gang* We was playing about. They overtook us and let us ride, then they wouldn't let us git off* They would shot us if we had* In a few days we was so far off. We cried and worried a heap. "It was eighteen years before I see my mother. The old snag I was riding give out and they was leading so they changed me* I cried two or three days. They didnf t pay my crying no ftention* They had a string of nigger men and boys, no women, far as from me T cross to that bank* I judge it is three hundred yards over there* "After the battle of Big Blue River my man got killed and another man had charge of me and somebody else went off with my brother* I never seen him* That battle was awful, awful, awful1 Well, I certainly was scared to death* They never got out of Missouri with my brother* In 1872 he went to St, Louis to my mother* She was cooking there. My father went 348' with the Yankees and was at Jefferson Barracks in the army during the War* He was there when we got stole but she went later on before he died* He was there three months* He took pneumonia* They brought me in to Kansas and back by Ft. Staith* "Talking about hard times, war times is all the hard times I ever seen* No foolinM It was really hard times* We had no bread, shoot down a cow and cut out what we wanted, take it on* We et it raw* Sometimes we would cook it but we et more raw than cooked* When we got to Ft. Sbiith we struck good times* Folks was living on parched corn and sorghum molasses* They had no mills to grind up the corn* Times was hard they thought* Further south we come better times got* When we landed at Arkadelphia we stayed all night and I was sold next day* Mr* Spence was the hotel keeper* He bought me* He give one hundred fifty dollars and a fine saddle horse for me* I never heard the trade but that is what I heard Yem say afterwards* Mr* Spence was a cripple man* John Merrican left me* He been mean to me* He was rough* Hit me over the head, beat me* He was mean* He lived down fbout Warren, down somewhere in the southern part of the state* I never seen him no more* Mr. Spence was good to me since I come to think about it but then I didnft think so* We had plenty plain victuals at the hotel* He meant to be good to me but I expected too much I reckon* Then it being a public place I heard lots what was said around* I cone to think I ought to be treated good as the boarders* Now I see it different* Mr. Spence walked on a stick and a crutch* He couldn't be very cruel to me if he had wanted to* He wasn't mean a bit* I was the bellboy and swept 'round some and gardened* "In 1866, in May, I run off* I went to Dallas County across Ouachita River. I stayed there with Matlocks and Bus sells and Welches till I was good and grown* Mr. Spence never tried to find me* I hoped he would* s. 349 They wasnft so bad but I had to work harder* They never give me nothing* I seen Mr* Spence twice after I left but he never seen me* If he did he never let on* I never seen his wife no more after I left her* I didn't see him for four years after I left, then in three more years I seen him but the hotel had burned* Freedom "Mr. Spence told me I was free* I didnft leave* I didnH have sense to know where to go* I didnft know what freedom was* So he went to the free mens1 bureau and had me bound to him till I was twenty-one years old* He told me what he had done* He was to clothe me, feed me, send me to school so many months a year, give me a horse and bridle and saddle and one hundred fifty dollars when I was twenty-one years old* That would have been eight or nine years* Seemed too long a time to wait* I thought I could do better than that* I never done half that good* I never went to school a day in my life* I was sorry I run off after it was too late* WI heard too much talking at the hotel* They argued a whole heap more than they do now* They set around and talk about slavery and freedom and everything else* It made me restless and I run off* I was ashamed to be seen much less go back* Folks used to have shame* Ku Klux wIn 1868 I lived with John Welch one year* I seen the going out and coming in* I heard what they was doing* I wasnft afraid of them then* I lived with one of fem and I wasnft afraid of *em* I learned a good deal about it* They called it uprising and I found out their purpose was to hold down the nigger* They said they wanted to make them submissive* They catch fem and beat fem half to death* I heard they hung some of fem* No, I didnft see it* I knew one or two they beat. They took some of the niggers right out of the cotton patch and dressed them up and drilled fem* When they come back they was boastful* Then they had to beat it out of fem# Some of fem didnft want to go back to work* Since I growed up I thought it out that Mr. Spence was reasonably good to me but I didnft think so then* It was a restlessness then like it is now fmong the young class of folks* The truth is they don't know what they want nor what to do and they donft do nothing much no time* *I went to see my mother* I wrote and wrote, had my white folks write till I found my folks* I went back several times* Mother died in 1908* We used to could beat rides on freight trains—that was mighty dangerous* We could work our way on the boats* I got to rambling trying to do better* I come to Phillips County* They cut it up, named it Lee* I got down in here and married* I was jus1 rambling 'round* I been in Lee County sixty-one years* I married toreckly after I come here* I been married twice, both wives dead* I was about twenty-three years old when I married* I had four children* My last child got killed* A limb fell on him twenty years ago in April* He was grown and at work in the timber* "I farmed all my life—seventy years of it* I like it now and if I was able I would not set up here in town a minute* Jus1 till I could get out there is all time it would take for roe to get back to fanning* I owned two little places* I sold the first fifty acres when my wife was sick so I could do for her* She died* My last wife got sick* I was no f count and had to quit work* Mr. Dupree built that little house for me, he said for all I had done for fim* He said it would be my home long as I live* He keeps another old m^n living out there the same way* Mr* Dupree is sick--in bad health— 5- 351 skin disease of some sort* We lives back behind this house* Mr* IXipree is in this house now* (Mr* Dupree has eczema*) I used to work for him on the farm and in the store* *I never was a drunkard* That is ruining this country* It is every Saturday night trade and every day trade with some of them* No, but I set here and see plenty* wThe present times is better than it used to be fcause people are cleverer and considerate in way of living* A sixteen-year-old boy knows a heap now* Five-year-old boy knows much as a ten-year-old boy used to know* I donft think the world is going to pieces* It is advancing way I see it* The Bible says we are to get weaker and wiser* Young folks not much fcount now to do hard work* Some can* *I get eight dollars and I work about this place all I am able* It keeps us both going*"