SLAVE NARRATIVES A Folk History of Slavery in the United States From Interviews with Former Slaves TYPEWRITTEN RECORDS PREPARED BY THE FEDERAL WRITERS' PROJECT 1936-1938 ASSEMBLED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS PROJECT WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SPONSORED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS Illustrated with Photographs WASHINGTON 1941 \ X VOLUME II ARKANSAS NARRATIVES PART 2 Prepared by the Federal Writers' Project of the Works Progress Administration for the State of Arkansas INFORMANTS Cannon, Frank Cauley, Zenie Chambers, Liney Charleston, Jr., Chase, Lewis Clay, Katherine Clemments, Maria 27 Clemons, Fannie Clinton, Joe Coleman, Betty Cotton, Lucy Cotton, T. W. Cragin, Ellen Crane, Sallie Crawford, Isaac Crosby, Mary Crump, Richard Culp, Zenia Cumins, Albert Curlett, Betty Curry, J. H. 1 3 5 Willie Buck 8 10 13 Sutton 15,23 28 30 36 38 39 42 50 57 59 62 67 70 72,79,81 82 88 91 95 97 99 100 Dandridge, Lyttleton Daniels, Ella Darrow, Mary Allen Davis, Alice Davis, Charlie Davis, D. Davis, James 109,113,114,115 Davis, Jeff 116,117 Davis, Jordan 122 Davis, Mary Jane Drucilla 124 Davis, Minerva 126 Davis, Rosetta 130 Davis, Virginia (Jennie) 131 134 135 137 147 149 151 153 157 161 164 166 169 Davis, Winnie Day, Leroy Dell, Hammett Dickey, James Diggs, Benjamin Dillon, Katie Dixon, Alice Dixon, Luke D.. Dixon, Martha Ann Dockery, Railroad Donalson, Callie Dortch, Charles Green Dorum, Fannie 180 Dothrum, Silas 185 Douglas, Sarah and Tom 189 193,196,201 Douglas, Sebert 204 Doyl, Henry 206 Doyld, Willie 208 Dudley, Wade 212 Duke, Isabella 214 Dukes, Wash 217 Dunn, Lizzie 221 Dunne, Nellie 223 Dunwoody, William L. 225 Edwards, Lucius Elliott, John Evans, Millie Evans, Mose Fairley, Rachel Fakes, Pauline Fannen, Mattie Farmer, Robert Fergusson, Lou Ferrell, Jennie Fikes, Frank Filer, J. E. Finger, Orleans Finley, Molly Finney, Fanny Fisher, Gate-Eye Fitzgerald, Ellen Fitzhugh, Henry Flagg, Mary Flowers, Doc Fluker, Frances Fluker, Ida May Ford, Wash Fortenberry, Judia Foster, Emma Foster, Ira Franklin, Leonard Frazier, Eliza Frazier, Mary Frazier, Tyler Freeman, Mittie Fritz, Mattie 234 235 240,248,250 252 258 262 264 269 276 282 283 286 287 292 296 300 303 305 312 315 319 322 324,326 328 331,333 334,335 336 340 343 344 346 353 ILLUSTRATIONS Facing page Sarah and Sam Douglas 189 Millie Evans 240 S03S5 *673 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Frank Cannon B.?*D», two miles, Palestine, Arkansas Age 77 "I was born three miles west of Starkville, Mississippi on a pretty tolerable large farm* My folks was bought from a speculator drove come by* They come from Sanders in South Caflina* Master Charlie Cannon bought a whole drove of us, both my grandparents on both sides* He had five farms, big size farms. Saturday was ration day. "Our master built us a church in our quarters and sont his preacher to preach to us* He was a white preacher* Said he wanted his slaves to be Christians* "I never went to school in my life* I was taught by the fireside to be obedient and not steal* "We et outer trays hewed out of logs* dree of us would eat together * We had wooden spoons the boys made whittling about in cold rainy weather* We all had gourds to drink outer* When we had milk wefd get on our knees and turn up the tray, same way wid pot-liquor* They give the grown up the meat and us pot-liquor* "Pa was a blacksmith* He got a little work from other plantations* The third year of the surrender he bought us a cow* The master was dead* He never went to war* He went in the black jack thickets* His sons wasnvt old enough to go to war* Pa seemed to like ole master* The overseer was white looking like the master but I donvt know if he was white man or nigger* Ole master wouldn11 let him whoop much as he pleased* Master held him off on whooping* 2. 2 •When the master come to the quarters us children line up and sit and look at him* Ihen he'd go on off wefd hike out and play* He didn't care if we look at him* "My pa was light about my color* Ma was dark* I heard them say she was part Creek (Indian)* "Folks was mode star before the children than they are now* The children was sent to play or git a bucket cool water from the spring* Everything we said wasnft smart like what children say now* We was seen and not heard* Not seen too much or somebody be stepping fside to pick up a brush to nettle our legs* Then wefd run and holler both* "Now and then a book come about and it was hid* Better not be caught looking at books* "Times wasnft bad fceptinf them speculator droves and way they got worked too hard and frailed* Some folks was treated very good, some killed* •Folks getting mean now* Easy living in hopes and lazing about* They work some*" ¦x. *\ v Interviewer_______Bernice Bowden______ Person Interviewed Zenie Cauley 1000 Louisiana Age 78 Pine Bluff, Ark. nI member when they freed the people. "I was born in Bedie Kellog's yard and I know she said, 'Zenie, I hate to give you up, I'd like to keep you.' But my mother said, !No, ma'am, I can't give Zenie up,' "We still stayed there on the place and I was settled and growed up when I left there. "I'm old. I feels my age too. I may not look old but I feels it, "Yes ma'am, I member when they carried us to church under bresh arbors. Old folks had rags on their hair. Yes'm, I been here, "My father was a Missionary Baptist preacher and he was a preacher. Didn't know 'A' from *B' but «he was a preacher. Ever- body knowed Jake Alsbrooks. He preached all over that country of North Carolina. They'd be as many white folks as colored. They'd give him money and he never called for a collection in his life. Why one Sunday they give him'sixty-five dollars to help huy a horse, "Fore I left the old county, I member the boss man, Henry Grady, come by and tell my mother, 'I'm gwine to town now, have my dinner ready when I come back - kill a chicken, * She was one of_the cooks. Used to have us chillun pick dewberries and blacks- berries and bring em to the house. 2. "Yes, I done left there thirty-six years - will be this August• "When we was small, my daddy would make horse collars, cot- ton baskets and mattresses at night and work in the field in the daytime and preach on Sunday. He fell down in Bedie Kellog's lot throwin1 up shucks in the barn. He was standin' on the wagon and I guess he lost his balance. They sent and got the best doctor in the country and he said he broke his nabel string. They preached his funeral ever year for five years. Seemed like they just couldn't give him up. "White folks told my mother if she wouldn't marry again and mess up Uncle Jake's chillun, they'd help her, but she married * that man and he beat us so I don't know how I can remember anything., He wouldn't let us go to school. Had to work and just live like ^ pigs. "Oh, I used to be a tiger bout work, bu^t I fell on the ice in 'twenty-nine and I ain't never got over it. I said I just had a death shock. "I never went to school but three months in my life. Didn't go long enough to learn anything. "I was bout a mile from where I was born when I professed religion. My daddy had taught us the right way. I tell you, in them days you couldn't join the church unless you had been changed. "I come here when they was emigratin' the folks here to Ark- ansas," -**, •.-••<* 30419 Interviewer_________.______Mlaa Irene Bobertson___________ Person Interviewed Uncy Chambers. Brinkloy. Arkansas Ago________ "I was horn In Tennessee close to Memphis. I remember seoin* tho Yankees, I was most too littls to bo very soared of thorn* They had their guns bat they didn't bother as* I was born a slave* My mother eooked for Jane and Silas lory* My mother's name was Caroline* My father's name was John* in old bachelor named Jim Bledsoe owned him* then the war was over I don't remember what happened* My mother moved away* She and my father didn't live together* I had one brother* Proctor. I expect he is dead* He lived in California last I heard of him* / / "They Just expected freedom all I ever heard* I know they didn't expect the white folks to give them no land cause the man what owned the land bought it hlsself foe he bought the hands whut he put on it* They thought they was rained bad eneuf when the hands left them* They kept the land and that is about all there was left* that the Yankees didn't take they wasted and set fire to it* They set fire to the rail fences so the stoek would get out all they didn't kill and take off* Both sidsa was mean* But it seemed like cause they was fightln' down here on the Souths ground it was ths wurst here* How that's just the way I sees it* They done one more thing too* They put any oolored man in the front where he would get killed first and they stayed sorter behind in the back lines* *. 6 When they eons along they try to get the eolered aen to go with thea and that*s the way they got treated* I didn't knew where anybody was Bade to stay on after the war* They was lucky if they had a plaee to stay at* There wasn't anything to do with if they stayed. Times was awful un- settled for a long tlae* People whut went to the oities died* I don't know they caught diseases and changing the ways of eatin' and livin* I guess whut done it* They died mighty fast for awhile* I knowed soae of thea and I heard *ea talking* "That period after the war was a hard time. It sho was harder than the depression. It lasted a long time. Folks got a lots now besides what they put up with then* fleeaed like they thought if they be free they never have no work to do and jess have plenty to eat and wear* They found it different and when it was cold they had no wood like they been used to. I don't believe in the colored race being slaves cause of the eolor but the war didn't make times much better for a long time. Some of thea had a worse tlae* So many soon got siok and died* They died of Consumption and fevers and nearly froze* Some near 'bout starved* The colored folks Just scattered 'bout huntin* work after the war* •I heard of the Ku ELux but I never seen one* "I never voted. I don't believe in it* "I never heard of any uprisings* I don't know nobody in that rebel- lion (Nat Turner)* "I used to sing to ay children end in the field* "I lived on the farm till I eoae to ay daughters to live* I like it better than in town* ffe heaesteaded a plaee at Orunfleld (Zint) and ay sister bought it. ffe barely made a living and never had money to lay up* "I don't know what they'll (young generation) do* Thing* going ao faat* I'» glad Z llred whan I did* I think it*a bean the beat tina tor por folka* Sana now got too nuoh and aoae not got nothing That what I believe nake tloes aeem ao hard*" 30398 #654 8 Interviewer________________Miss Irene Robertson_________________ Person interviewed Willie Back Charleston, Jr*» Biscoe, Arkansas Age 74 •I was born up here on the Biscoe place before lfr# Biscoe was heard of in this country* I'm for the world like my daddy* He was light as I is* I'm jus1 his size and mate* There was three of us boys* Dan was the oldest; he was my own brother9 and Xd was my half-brother* My daddy was a fellar of few words and long betwix9 fem* He was in the Old War (Civil War)* He was shot in his right ankle and never would let it be took out* Mother had been a cook* She and my grandmother was sold in South Carolina and brought out here* Mother1 s name was Sallle Harry* Judging by them being Harrys that might been who owned them before they was sold* She was about as light as me* Mother died when I was a litter bit er of a fellar* Then me and Dan lived from house to house* Grandma Harry and isy Jnnt Mat and Jesse Dove raised us* My daddy married right er way agfin* "I recollect mighty little about the war* We lived back in the woods and swamps* I was afraid of the soldiers* I seen them pass by* I was so little I can barely recollect seeing them and hiding from them* •When we lived over about Forrest City I seen the Ba KLux whoop Joe Saw and Bill Reed* It was at night* fiiey was tied to trees and whooped with a leather snake whoop• I couldn't say how it come up but they sure poured it on them* There was a crowd come up during the acting* I was scared to death then* After then I had mighty little use for dressed-up folks what go around at night (Kb KLux)* I can tell you no slch thing ever took place 9 as I heard of at Biseoe* We had our own two officers and white officers and we get along all the time tollerably well together,* oU*i4^ j[Q Interrlewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interflowed Lewis Chase; Dss ire, Arkansas Age 90? vV I answer all your questions I 4s«s lady. \\Jfhen da Civil War goln on I heard lots folks talking. I don*t know what all they did say. It was a war mong de whits folks* Niggers had no say in it. Heap ob them went to wait on their masters what went to fight. Niggers didn't know what the fight war bout* Turnkey troops coos take sTsrything we had made, take it to the Bluff [DeVails Bluff), waste it and eat it. He claim to be friend to the black nan an do him jes dater way. 9s niggers what had any sense tall stuck to the white folks. Niggers what I knowed didn't spec nothin an they sho didn't get nothin but freedom* AI was sold. Yes mam I sho was. Jes put up on a platform and auctioned off. Sold r4*e here in Des Arc* Norn taint right* My old mistress (Mrs. SnibleyJ whoop me till I run off and they took me back when they found out where I lef from* I stayed way bout two weeks* VQne man I sho was glad didn't get me cause he whoop me* No'am he didn't get me. I heard him puttln up the prices and I sho hops he didn't get me* \VI don't know whar I come from* Old Missus Snibley kept my hat pulled down over my face so I couldn't see do way to go back* vS I didn't want to come and I say I go right bak* lhar I set, A ft* o> right between old missus and master on de front seat ob do wagon and my ma set between missus Snibley1s two girls right behind us* I reckon it was a covered wagon* The girls name was Florence and Sana* Old master Snibley never whip me bat old Missus sho did pile it on me* Noom I didn't lack her* I ran away* He died fo the war was over* I did leave her when de war was over* W I saw a heap ob bushwhackers and carpet bagger bat I nebber seed no Ku KLux* I heard battles of the bashwhaokers out at the Wattensaw bridge (Iron bridge]* I was scared might near all de time for four years* Noom I didn't want no soldiers to get me* *I reckon I wo long britches when de war started cause when I palled off dresses I woe long britches* Never wo no short ones* Nigger boys and white boys too wore loose dresses till they was four* five or six years old in them times* They put on britches when they big nough to help at the field* I worked at the house and de field* I'se farmed all my life* \VI vote mkmoL i time* I don't know what I vote* Noom I don't! I reckon I votes Democrat, I don't know* It don't do no good* Noom I ain't voted in a long time* I don't know nothin bout votin* I never did* vVNoom I never owned no land* noom no hone neither* I didn't need no home* The man I worked for give me a house on his place* I work for another man and he give me a house on his land* I owned a horse one time* I rode her* ^1 don't know nuthin bout the young generation* I takes care bout myself* Data all I'm able to do now* Some ob dem work* 5. 12 Horn they donft work hard as I did* I works now hard as they do* They ought to work* I don't know what going to become ob then* I can't help what they do# v\ The tines is hard fo old folks eause they ainvt able to work and heap ob tins they ain't no work fo em to do* \v Noom I lived at Bells, Arkansas for I come to Hickory Plains and Des Are* I don't know no kin bat ay mother. She died durin the war* Noom not all de white folks good to the niggers* Some mean* They whoop em. Some white folks good* Jes lak de niggers9 deres some ob em mighty good and some ob em mean* A I works when I can get a little to do and de relief gives me a little* \\ I am er hundred years old! Cause I knows I is* White folks ell tell you I am* 30784 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson____________ Person interviewed Katherine Clay» Forrest City, Arkansas Age 69 *I was born in West Point, Mississippi. My folks1 owners was Master Harris and Llddle Harris* My parent fs name was Sely Sikes* She was mother of seven children. Papa was name Owen Sikes* He never was whooped* They had different owners* Both my grandparents was dead on both sides* I never seen them* "Mama said her owners wasn't good* Her riding boss pat a scar on her back she took to her grave* It was deep and a foot long* He wanted to whoop her naked* He had the colored men hold her and he whooped her* She run off and when her owner come home she come to him at his house and told him all about it* She had been in the woods about a week she reckon* She / had a baby she had left* The old mistress done had it brought to her* She was nursing it* She had a sucking baby of her own* She kept that baby* Mama said her breast was way out and the doctor had to come wait on her; it nearly ruined* *Wama said her master was so mad he cursed the overseer f paid himt and give him ten minutes to leave his place* He left in a hurry* That was her very first baby* She was raising a family, so they put her a nurse at the house* She had been ploughing. She had big fine children* They was proud of them* She raised a big family* She topk care of all her and Miss Liddiefs babies and washed their hippins. Never no soap went on them she said reason she had that to do* Another woman cooked and another woman washed* 13 2. 14 "Mama said she was sold once, away from her mother but they let her have her four children* She grieved for her old mama, ffraid she would have a hard time* She sold for one thousand dollars* She said that was half price hut freedom was coming on* She never laid eyes on her mama ag'in* "After freedom they had gone to another place and the man owned the place run the Ku BLux off* They come there and he told them to go on away, if he need them he would call them back out there* They never come back, she said* They was scared to death of the Ku KLux. At the place where they was freed all the farm bells rung slow for freedom* That was for miles about* Their master told them up at his house* Be said it was sad thing, no time for happiness, they hadnft 'sperienced it* But for them to came back he would divide long as tfiat he had lasted* They didnH go off right at first* They was several years getting broke up* Some went, same stayed, some actually moved back* Like bees trying to find a setting place* Seem like they couldn't get to be satisfied even being free* •I had eleven children my own self* I let the plough fly back and hit me once and now I got a tumor there* I love to plough* I got two children living* She comes to see me* She lives across over here* I donft hear from my boy* I reckon he living* I gets help from the relief on account I can't work much with this tumor*11 30496 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Maria Sutton demmenta, DeValls Bluff» Ark» Age Between 85 and 90 years I don't know jes how old I is* Yes mum I show do member the war jes lack as if it was yesterday* I was born in Lincoln County, Georgia* My old mistress was named Frances Sutton. She was a real old lady# Her husband was dead* She had two sons Abraham and George. One of them tried to get old missus to sell my ma jes before the war broke out* He wanter sell her cause she too old to bear children* Sell her and buy young woman raise mo children to sell* Put em in the nigger drove and speculate on em. Young nigger, not stunted, strong ifiade, they look at their wristss and ankles and chestes, bout grown bring the owner fifteen hundred dollars* Yes mam every cent of it* Two weeks after baby born / / see the mother carrin it cross the field fur de old woman what kept all the children and she be going ri&ht on wid de hoe all day. When de sun come up the niggers all in the field and wofkin when de ridin boss come wid de dogs playin long after him. If they didn't chop dat cotton jes right he have em tied up to a stake or a big saplih and beat him till de blood run out the gashes* They come right back and take up whar they lef off work* Two chaps make a hand soon as dey get big nuf to chop out a row* j Had plenty to eat; meat, corncake and molasses, peas and garden stuff* They didn't set out no variety fo the niggers* They had pewter bowls to eat outer and spoons* Eat out in the yard, at the cabins, 15 2- 16 in the kitchen* Sat different places owin to what you be workin at when the bell rung* Big bell on a high post* My ma1 s name was Sina Sutton. She come from Virginia in a nigger traders drove when she was sixteen years old and Miss Frances husband bought er. She had nine childen whut lived. I am de youngest. She died jes before de war broke out* Till that time I had been trained a house girl. My ma. was a field hand. Then when the'men all went to the army I plowed. I plowed four years I fecken, till de surrender. Howd I know it 7;as freedom? A strange woman - I never seed fore, come runhin down where we was all at work. She say loud as she could "Hay freedom. You is free.1* Everything toe out fer de house ajjA soldiers was lined up. Dats whut they come by fer. Course dey was Yankee soldiers settin the colored folks all free*' Everybody was gettin up his clothes and leaving. They didn't know whah des goin. Jes scatterin round. I say give fem some thin • They was so mad cause they was free and leavin and nobody to work the land. The hogs and stefck was mostly all done gone r then. White folks sho had been rich but all they had was the land* The smoke houses had been stripped and stripped. The cows.all been took off cept the scrubs. Folks plowed ox and glad to plow one. Sometime we had a good time. I danced till I joined the church. v/e didnft have no nigger churches that I knowed till after freedom. Go to the white folks church. We danced square dance jess like the white folks long time ago. The niggers baptized after the white folks down at the pond* They joined the white folks church sometimes* The same woman on the place sewed for de niggers, made some things for Miss Frances* I recollects that. She knitted and seed about things* 3. 17 She showed the nigger women how to sjkw* ill the women on the place could card and 3pin* They set around and do that when too bad weather to be on the ground. They show/didnft teach them to read* They whoop you if they see you have a book. If they see you gang round talkin, they say they talkin bout freedom or equalization. They scatter you bout* N When they sell you, they take you off. . See drove pass the house* Men be ridin ^id long whips of cow hide wove together and the dogs* The slaves be walkin, some cryin cause they left their folks. They make em stand in a row sometimes and sometimes they put em up on a high place and auction era* % The pore white folks whut not able to buy hands had to work their 'own land. There shore^was a heap of white folks what had no slaves. Some ob dem say theys glad the niggers 'got turned loose, maybe they could get them to work for them sometimes and pay em« When you go to be sold you have to say what.the/ tell you to say. When a man be unruly they sell him to get rid of him heap of times* They call it sell in nigger meat. Imo use try in run off they catch you an bring you back. I don't know that there was ever a thought made bout freedom till they was fightin. Said that was what it was about. That was a white mans war cept they stuck a few niggers in front ob the Yankee lines* And some ob the men carried off some nan or boy to wait on him* He so / used to bein waited on* I ain't takin sides wid neither one of dem I tell you. «• 18 If der was anything to be knowed the white folks knowed it* The niggers get passes and visit round on Saturday evening or on Sunday jes mongst theirselves and mongst folks they knowed at the other farms round* When dat war was done Georgia was jes like being at the bad place* You couldn't stay in the houses fear some Ku Klux come shoot under yo door and bust in wid hatchets* Folks hide out in de woods mostly* ^ If day hear you talkin they say you talkin bout"equalization* They whoop you. You couldn't be settin or standing talkin* They come and ask you what he been tell you* That Kh KLux killed white men too* They say they put em up to hold offices over them*. It was heap worse in Georgia agfter freedom, than it was fore* I think the poor nigger have to suffer fo what de white man put on him* Wes had a hard time* Some of em down there in .Georgia what didnft get into the cities where they could get victuals and a few rags fo cold weather got so pore out in the woods they nearly starved and died out. I heard em talk bout how they died in piles* Niggers have to have meat to eat or he get weak* White folks didn't have no meat, no flour* The folks was after some people and I run off and kept goin till I took up with some people. The white folks brought them to Tennessee - Covington - I come too* Tney come in wagons. My father, he got shot and I never seed him no mo. Ke lived on another farm fo de war' I lived wid "i them white folks till bout nine years and I married. My old man wanted to come to dis new country. Heard so much talk how fine it was* Then I had run across my brother* He followed*me. One brother was killed in the war somehow. My brother, liked Memphis an he stayed there* We come on the train. I never did like no city* 5- 19 . We farmed bout, cleared land, Never got much fo the hard work we done. The white man don learned how to figure the black folks out of what was made cept a bare living, I could read a little and write. He could too. We went to school a little in Tennessee• When we got so we not able to work hard he come to town and carpentered, right here, and I cooked, fo Mr, Hopkins seven years and fo Mr, Gus Thweatt and fo Mr, Nick Thweatt. Efe got a little ahead then by the hardest, I carried my money right here £bag on a string tied around her waist). We bought a house and five acres of land, Ko mum I donft own it now. We got in hard luck and give a mortgage. - They closed us out. Mr, Sanders, They say I can live there long as I lives. But they owns It. My garden fence is down and won't nobody fix it up fo me. They promises to come put the posts in but they won't do it and I ain't able no mo, I had a garden this year. Spoke fo a pig but the man said they all died wid the kolerg JcholeraJ. So I ain't got nc^meat to eat dis year* I ain't never had a chile. I ain't got' nobody kin to me livin dat I knows bout. When I gets sick a neighbor woman comes over and looks after me. I thinks if de present generation don't get killed they die cause they too lazy to ^ork. Ko mum dey don't know nuthin bout work. They ain't got no religion. They so smart they don't pay no tension to what you advise em, I never tries to find out what folks doin and the young generation is killin time, I sho never did vote, I don't believe in it. The women runnin the world now. The old folks ain't got no money 6* an the young ones wastes theirs* Theys able to make it* They don't give the old folks nuthin. The times changes so much I don't^know what goiner come next* I jes stop and looks and listens to see if my eyes is foolin me* I can't see, fo de cataracts gettin bad, nohow* Things is heap better now fo de young folks now if they would help dler^eelves* Ifm too wo out* I can't do much like I could when I was young* The white folks don't cheat the niggers outen what they make now bad as they did when I farmed. I never knowed about uprisings till the Ku KLux sprung up* I never heard bout the Nat Turner rebellion* I tell you bout the, onliest man I knowed come frqm.Virginia. A fellow come in the country bout everybody called Solomon* Dis long fo the war. He was a free man he said. He would go bout mong his color and teach em fo little what they could slip him along. He teached some to read* Ihen freedom he went to Augusta* My brother seed him and said "Solomon, what you doin here?" and he said "I am er teaching school to my own color?* Then he s^id they run him out of, Virginia cause he was learnin his color and he kept going** Some white folks up North learned him to read and cipher* He used a black slate and he had a book he carried around to-teach folks with* He was what they called a ginger cake color. They would whoop you if they seed you r with books learnin. Mighty few books to get holt of fo the war. We mark' on the ground. The passes bout all the paper I ever seed fo I come to Tennessee* Then I got to go to school a little. Whah would the niggers get guns and shoot to start a uprisin? Never had none cept if a white man give it to him* When you a slave you don't have nothin cept a big fireplace and plenty land to work* % 21 They cook on the fireplace ? Niggers didn't have no ©ins fo the war an nuthin to shoot in one if he had one whut he picked up somewhere after the war* The Ku KLux done the uprisin. They say they wonft let the nigger enjoy freedom* They killed a lot of black folks in Georgia and a few white folks whut they said was in wid em. We darkies had nuthin to do wid freedom. Two or three set down on you, take leaves and build a fire and burn their feet nearly off. That the way the white folks treat, the darky. I never knowed nobody to hold office. Them whut didn't want to starve got someplace whut he could hold a plow handle. You donft know whut hard times is. Dem was hard times. They used to hide in big cane brakes, nearly wild and nearly starved. Scared to come out. I ainft wanted to go back to Georgia. The folks I lived wid fo I come to Tennessee, he tanned hides ,xLown at the branch and made shoes and he made "cloth hats, wool hats* He sold them. Ue farmed but I watched them up at the 'house minu a time. One thing I recollect mighty well. Fo de war a big bellied great monster man come in an folks made a big to do over him. He eat round and laughed round havin a big time. His name was Mr. Uimbeish (?)• He wo white britches wid red stripes down the sides and a white shad tail coat all trimmed round de edges wid red and a tall beaver hat. He blowed a bugle and marched all the men every Friday ebening. He ccxne to Miss Frances. They fed him on pies and cakes and rae brushin the flies off im and my nouth fairly viaterin for a chunk ob de cake. When de first shot of war went off no more coald be heard ob old Mr. Wimbeish. He lef an never was heard tell ob no mot He said never was a Yankee had a lxart 8. he didnH understand! I never did know whut he was# He jess said that right smart« I gets the Old Age Pension and meets the v*agon and gets a little commodities* I works my garden and raises a few chickens round my house« I trusts in de Lord and tvy to do right, honey, dat way I lives* 22 •j'Jlo'7 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Marl« Button Clements« De Yalls Bluff > Arks Aae Batwepn 85 and 90 "Stiss, I don't know a whole heap bout Mr. Wimbeish* I don't know no other name that itoat they all call him* Some I heard say it like Wimbush* He was a great big man, big in here [chest], big in here (stomach)* He have hair bout color youn flight}* He have big blue eyes jesv sparklin9 round over the victuals on the table* He was a lively man* He had a heap to tell and a heap to talk bout* He had fair skin and rosy jaws — full round face* He laughed out loud pretty often* He looked fine when he laughed too* They all was foolish bout him* He was a new- commer in there* I donvt know whah he stay* He come down the road regular as Friday come, going to practice em march in1. Looked like bout fifty fellows* I never seed Mr* Wimbeish on a horse all time he passed long that road* He miter jesv et round mong the people while he stayed there* He wore red 'appletts' on his shoulders* I never seed him outer that fresh starched white suit* It was fishtail coat and had red bands stitched all round the edge and white breetches (U'lfeeliss) with red bands down the side* He sure was a young man* They had him bout different places eat in9* Old mistress said, 'Fix up a good dinner today we gwiner have company*1 That table was piled full* It was fine eatin1* He say so much I couldn't for git* Never was a Yankee what have a heart he couldn't understand* I don't know ifaat he was* He was so different« He mister been a Southerner f cause white folks would not treated him near that good* It was fo de war* They say when the first bugle blowed fo war he was done gone an* nebber been heard of till dis day* I heard some say last they seed him* he was rollinf over an9 over on the ground and the men run off to find em not her captain* I donft know if they was tell in1 like it took place* I know I never seed him no more* Slave Times •?The servants take up what they eat in bowls and pans — little wooden bowls — and eat wid their fingers and wid spoons and they had cups* Some had tables fixed up out under the trees* Way they make em — split a big tree half in two and bore holes up in it and trim out legs to fit* They cooked on the fireplaces anf hearth and outerdoors. They cooked sompin to eat* They had plenty to eat* But they didn't have pies and cake less they be goiner have company* They have so much milk they fatten the pigs on it* The animals eat up the gardens and crops* The men kill coon and possum if they didn't get nough meat up at the house* X say it sure is good* It is good as pork* The men prowl all night in the winter hunt in9* If you be workin9 at the field yo dinner is fetched down thar to you in a bucket that high G^ftjQ, that big er round Tl^wideJ* The hands all come an9 did they eat* That be mostly fried meat and bread and baked tat era. so they could work* "Old mistress say she first married Mr* Abraham Chenol* Then she married Ifr* Joel Sutton and they both died* She had two sons* She had a nephew what come there from way off* She said he was her sister9s boy* »• Sfi Couse they had doctors and good ones* Iff en a doctor cone say ona thing the natter he better stick to it and core one he come thar to see* Old mistress had three boys till one died. I was brashin9 flies offen hia* She come and cry and go way cryln9. He call inf her all time. He quit call in1 her then he was dead* Made a sorter gurglin9 sound. That the first person I seed die. When they say he dead I got out and off I was gone. I was usinf a turkey wing to brush flies offen him. I donft know what was the matter wid em* They buried him on her place whah the grave yard was made. Both her husbands buried down then. She had a fine marble put over his grare. It had things wrote on it* She sent way off an9 got it* They hauled it to here in a wagon* The Masons burled him* It was the prettiest sight I ever seed* "Her son John had sons peafowls* She had geese — a big drove *~» turkeys, guineas, ducks, and gee^e* "She had feather beds and wheat straw mattresses* Clean whoopee! They used cotton baggin9 and straw and some of the servants had a feather bed* Old mistress get up anf go in set till they call her to breakfast. They had a marble top table and a big square piano* That was the parlor furniture* They made rugs outen sheep anf goat skins* •When she want the cook go wid her she dress her up In seas her fine dresses — big white cap Ilka missus slep in an9 a white apron tied round her waist* We wore 5f calico and gingham dresses for best* She'd buy three and four bolts at Augusta Qtoorgla} and have It made up to work in* We didn't spin and weave till the war coos on* Sena old man cone round making spinnin9 wheels* They was very plain too nearly bout rough. Hich folks had fine silk dresses — jes9 rattle 26 when they walked -~ to wear to preaehin'* They aho did have preaehin* an* fastin' too durin* the war bat folks didn't have fine clothes when it ended like when the war started* Xu KLux KLan "It started oatener the bushwhackers* Some say they didn't get what was promised em at Shilolh Battle* They didn't get their rights* I don't know what they meant by it* The bushwhackers ketch the men in day goiner work — ketch em this way £fey the shoulders or collar]. Such hollerin' and scramblin' then you never heard* They hide behind big pine trees till he come up then step out behind and grab him* They first come an' call fer water* Plenty water in the well or down at the spring* They knowed it too* Then they waste all you had brought up and say — 'Ah! first drink I had since I come from hell*' They all knowed ain't nobody come from hell* They had hatchets an' they burst in your house* Jos* to scare you* They shoot under your house* They wore their wives big wide nightgowns and caps and ugliest faces you eber seed* They looked like a gang from hell — ugliest things you ebber did see* It was cold — ground spewed up wld ice and men folks so scared they run out in woods, stay all night* Old mistress died at the close of de war an' her son what was a preacher, he put on a long preacher coat and breeches (avitehee) all black* He put a nary six in his belt and carried carbeen (jcarbine) on his shoulder* It was a long gun shoot sixteen times* fie was a dangerous man* He made the En ELux let his folks alone* He walk all night bout his place* He say* 'forward March!' Then they pass by* He was a dangerous man* So muoh takin' place all time I was scared nearly to death all time** o 0522 «N Interviewer____________ Miss Irene Robertson .,% Person interviewed Marian^ Button Clements De Vails Bluff, Arkansas Afe* "Missus, I thought if I*d so* you agin I'd tell you this song: ?Jeff Davis Is President lbs Lincoln is a fool Gone here, see Jeff ride the gray horse And Abe Lincoln the mile** "They sung all aieh songs durin* of the ear* "Five wagons cone by* They said It ems Jeff Devise's wagons. They was loaded wid silver money •>•> all five — in Lincoln County, Georgia* Somehow the folks got a whiz of it and got the money oaten one the wagons* Abraham* tty old mistress* son had old-fashion saddle bag full* Sho it was white folks all but two or three slaves* Hogs tore up sacks money, find em hid in the woods* They thought it was corn* They found a leather trunk full er money — silver money — down in the creek* Money buried all round* The way it all started one colored men throwed down a bright dime to a Yankee fo sompin he wanter buy* That started it all* They tied their thumbs this way (thumbs crossed) behind em, then strung em up in trees by their wrists behind em* It put heep of em in bed an* some most died never did get over it* The Yankee soldiers come down that and got all the money nearly* They say the war last four years* five months* Seemed like twenty years*" 27 Interviewer Pernella Anderson 28 Person Interviewed Fannie C lemons 940 N. Washington Age 78 El Dorado, Ark, "I was born down in Farmerville, Louisiana in the year of I860, Now my ma lived with some white people, but now the name of the people I do not know. You see, child, I am old and I can't recollect so good. I didn't know my pa cause my ma quit him when I was little. My ma said she worked hard in the field like a black stepchild. My ma had nine chilluns and I was the oldest of the nine. She said her old miss wouldn't let her come to the house to nurse me, so she would slip up under the house and crawl through a hole in the floor. She took and pulled a plank up so she could slip through. "I would drink any kind of water that I' saw if I wanted a drink. If the white folks poured out wash water and I wanted a drink that would do me. It just made me fat and healthy. Most we played was tussling, and couldn't no boy throw me. Nobody tried to whip me cause they couldn't. "We always cooked on fireplaces and our cake was always molasses cakes. At Christmas time we got candy and apples, but these oranges and bananas and stuff like that wasn't out then. Bananas and oranges just been out a few years. And sugar - we did not know about that. We always used sugar from molasses. I don't think sugar been in session long. If it had I did not get it. 2. 29 "I got married when I was pretty old, I lived with my husband eight years and he died. I had some children, but I stole them. The biggest work I ever done was farm and we sure worked." #738 Interviewer Watt McKlnney P&rson interviewed Joe Clinton^ Route 2» Marvell, Arkansas Age 86 "Uncle Joe* Clinton, an ex«4Iississippi slave, lives on a small farm that he owns a few miles north of Uarvell, Arkansas* His wife has been dead for a number of years and he has only one living child, if indeed his boy, Joet who left home fifteen years ago for Chicago and from whom no word has been received since, is still alive* Due to the infirmities of age '•Uncle Joe* is unable to work and obtains his support from the income received off the small acreage he rents each year to the Hegro family with whom he lives* Seated in an old cane-bottomed chair "Uncle Joe11 was dozing in the warm sun- shine of an afternoon in early October as I passed through the gate leading into the small yard enclosing his cabin* Arousing himself on my approach, the old Negro offered me a chair* I explained the purpose of my visit and this old man told me the following story: "Ifse now past eighty-six year ole anf was borned in Fanola County, Mississippi fbout three miles from Sardis* My ole mars was Hark Ghildressf en he sure owned er heap of peoples, womens anf mans bofe, en jus1 gangs of chillun* I was real small when us lived in Pianola County; how<~some~ever I riccolect it well when us all leff dar and ole mars sold out his land and took us all to de delta where he had bought a big plantation fbout two or three miles wide in Coahoma County not far from Friar Point* De very place dat my mars bought and dat ua moved to is what dey call no wt de f Clover EiU Plantation9* Ds fust year dat us lived in de delta, us stayed on de place *• 31 what dey called de 'Swan Lake Place* * Bat place is over dere close to Jonestown and de very place dat Mr* Billy Jones and his son John boughtt en dats zackly how come dat town git its name* It was nasied for Mr* John Jones* "My mars, Mark Ghildress, he never was married* Be was a bachelor, en Ifse tellin9 you dis, boss, he was a good, fair man and no fault was to be found wid him* Bat dem overseers dat he had, dey was real mean# Dey was cruel, least one of them was fbout de crudest white man dat I is ever seen* Dat was Harvey Brown* Mars had a nephew what lived with him named Mark Sillers* He was mars1 sister9 a son and was named for my mars* Mr* Mark Sillers, he helped with de runnin9 of the place en sich times dat mars fway from home Mr* Mark, he the real boas den* > "Mr* Harvey Brown, the overseer, he mean sure fnough I tell you, and de oiiliest thing that keep him from beat in1 de niggers up all de time would be old mars er Mr* Mark Sillers* Bofe of dem was good and kind most all de time* One time dat I remembers, ole mars, he gone back to Panola County for somepin1, en Mr* Mark Sillers, he attendin1 de camp meeting* That was de day dat Mr* Harvey Brown come mighty nigfr killin1 Henry* Ifll tell you how dat was, boss* It was on Monday morning that it happened* De Friday before dat Monday morning, all of de hands had been pickin9 cotton and Mr* Harvey Brown didnft think dat Henry had picked enough cotton dat day en so he give Henry er lashin9 out in de field* D&t night Henry, he git mad and burn up his sack and runned off and hid in de cane brake flong de bayou all of de nex9 day* Mr* Harvey, he missed Henry from de field en sent Jeff an9 Randall to find him and bring him in* Dey found Henry real soon en tell him iffen he don't come on back to de field dat Mr* Harvey gwine to set de hounds on him* So Henry, he corned on back den 9 cause de niggers was skeered of dem wild bloodhounds what they would set on fem when dey try to run off* "When Henry git back Mr* Harvey say, ' Henry, where your sack? And how come you ain't pickinf cotton stid runnin' off like dat?f Henry say he done burnt he sack up* Wid dat Mr* Harvey lit in to him like a bear, lashin' him right and left* Henry broke en run den to de cook house where he manmyj 'Aunt Mary', was, en BIr* Harvey right after him wid a heavy stick of wood dat he picked up offen de yard* Mr* Harvey got Henry cornered in de house and near 'bout beat dat nigger to death* In fact, Mr* Harvey, he really think too dat he done kilt Henry 'cause he called 'Uncle Nat1 en said, 'Nat, go git some boards en make er coffin for dis nigger what I done kilt*' "But Henry wasn't daid though he was beat up terrible en they put him in de sick house# For days en days 'Uncle Warner' had to 'tend to him, en' wash he wounds, en pick de maggots outen his sores* Bat was jus' de way dat Mr. Harvey Brown treated de niggers every time he git a chanct* He would even lash en beat de wimmens* "Ole mars had a right good size house in dar 'mongst de quarters where dey kept all de babies en right young chillun whilst dey mammies workin' in de fields pickin' en hoe in' time* Old 'Aunt Hannah', an old granny woman, she 'tend to all dem chillun* De chillun*s mammies, dey would come in from de fields about three times er day to let de babies suck* Dere was er young nigger woman name Jessie what had a young baby* One day when Jessie coma to de house to let dat baby suck, Mr* Harvey think she gone little too long* He give her a hard lashin'* 11 Ole mars had a big cook house on de plantation right back in behind he own house en twix his house en de nigger's quarters* Dat was where all de co ok in1 done for all de niggers on de entire place* Aunt Mary, she de head cook for de mars en all of de niggers too* All of de field hands durin' crop time et dey breakfast en dey dinners in de field* I waited on de table 4« for mars en sort er flunkyed f round de house en de quarters en de barns, en too I was one of de young darkies what toted de buckets of grub to de field hands* "Ole mars had a house on de place too dat was called de Ysick housef* Sat was where dem was put dat was sick* It was a place where day was doctored on en cared for till day either git well er die* It was er sort er hospital like* 9Uncle Warner1 , he had charge of de sick house, en he could sure tell iffen you sick er not, or iffen you jus1 tryin1 to play off from work* "My pappy, he was named Bill Clinton en my mammy was named Mildred * Be reason how come I not named Childress for my mars is Y cause my pappy, he named Clinton when mars git him from de Clintons up in Tennessee somewhere* My mars, he was a good man jus9 like Ifm tell inf you* Mars had a young nigger woman named Malinda what got married to Charlie Toluntine dat belonged to Mr* Nat Toluntine dat had a place Ybout six miles from our place* In dem days iffen one darky married somebody of fen de place where day lived en what belonged to some other mars, day didnft git to see one annudder very often* not morevn once a month anyway* So Malinda* she got atter mars to buy Charlie* Sure fnough he done that very thing sovs dem darkies could live togedder* Dat was good in our mars*. "When any marryin* was done fmongst de darkies on de place in dem days* day would first hab to ask de mars iffen dey could marry, en iffen he say dat dey could git married den dey would git ole fUncle Peyton1 to marry fem* 1 Course dere wasnft no sich thing as er license for niggers to marry an I donft riccolect what it was dat fUncle Peyton1 would say when he done de marryin1 • But I •members well dat 'Uncle Peyton1, he de one dat do all of de marryin9 fmongst de darkles* 5* 34 "My mars, he didnft go to de War but he sure sent er lot er corn en he sent erbout three hundred head er big, fat hogs one time dat I 'members* Den too, he sent somepin like twenty er thirty niggers to de Confedrites in Georgia* I fmembers it well de time dat he sent dem niggers* They was all young uns, fbout grown, en dey was skeered to death to be leavin1 en goin1 to de War* Dey didnft know en cose but what dey gwine make fem fight* But mars tole fem dat dey jus* gwine to work diggin1 trenches en sich; but dey didn't want to go nohow en Jeff an1 Randall, they runned off en come back home all de way from Georgia en mars let fem stay* "Boss, you has heered me tellin' dat my mars was er good, kine man en dat his overseer, Mr* Harvey Brown, was terrible cruel, en mean, en would beat de niggers up every chance he git, en you ask me how come it was dat de mars would have sich a mean man er working for him* Now Ifse gwine to tell you de reason* You know de truth is de light, boss, anf dis is de truth what Ifse gwine to say* Mars, he in love with Mr* Harvey Brown's wife, Miss Mary, and Miss MaryYs young daughter, she was marsf chile* Yas suh, she was dat* She wasn't no kin er tall to Mr* Harvey Brown* Her name was Miss Markis, dats what it was* Mars had done willed dat chile er big part of his property and a whole gang of niggers* He was gwine give her Tolliverj Beckey, Aunt Mary, Austin, anf Savannah en er heap more f sides dat* But de War, it come on en broke mars up, en all de darkies sot free, en atter dat, so I heered Mr* Harvey Brown en Miss Mary, and de young lady Miss Markis*, dey moved up North some place en I ain't never heered no more from dem* "Mr* Clarke and Mrs* Clarke what de town of Clarksdale is named for, dey lived not far from our place* I knowed dem well* Albert, one of mars1 darkies, married Cindy, one of Mr* Clarke's women* General Forrest, I know you is heered of him* I speck he fbout de bes' general in de War* 6. He sure was a fine looking man en he wore a beard on he face* De general* he had a big plantation down dere in Coahoma County where he would cosne ever so offen* A lot of times he would come to our place en take dinner wid ole mars, en I would be er waitin1 on de table er takinf dem de toddies on de front gallery where dey talkin1 fbout dey bizness* "Boss, you axed me if dey was any sich thing in slavery times as de white men moles tin1 of de darky wimmen* Dere was a heap of dat went on all de time an* 'course de wimmens, dey couldn't help deyselves and jus1 had to put up wid it* De trouble wasn't from de mars of de wimmens Ifse ever knowed of but from de overseers en de outside white folks* Of course all dat couldnft have been goin1 on like it did without de mars knowin' it* Dey jusf bound to know dat it went on, but Ifse never heered 'bout 'em doin1 nothin' to stop it« It jus1 was dat way, en dey 'lowed it without tryin' to stop all sich stuff as dat* You know dat niggers is bad 'bout talkin1 'mongst demselves 'bout sich en sich er goinf on, and some of mars9 darkies, dey say dat Sam and Dick, what was two real light colored boys, dat us had was roars' chillun* Dat was all talk* I nebber did believe it 'cause dey nebber even looked like mars en he nebber cared no more for dem dan any of the rest of de hands*" 3. ..38 Interviewer Mrs* Beraice Bowden Person Interviewed Batty Coleman H13& Indiana Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 80 Occupation Cotton Picker 36 *My father belonged to Mr* Ben Martin and my mother and me belonged to the Slaughters* I was small then and didn't know what the war was aboutf but I remember see in1 the Yankees and the Ku Klux* "Old master had about fifteen or twenty hands but Mr, Martin had a plenty ~~ he had bout a hundred head* "I member when the war was goin1 on we was livinf in Bradley County* We was goin1 to Texas to keep the Yankees from get tin1 us* I member Mr# Gil Martin was just a young lad of a boy* We got as far as Union County and I know we stopped there and stayed long enough to make two crops and then peace was declared so we come back to Warren* "While the war was goinf on, I member when my mother took a note to some soldiers in Warren and asked em to come and play for Miss Mary* I know they stood under a sycamore and two catawba trees and played* There was a perty big bunch of em# Us chillun was glad to hear it. I member just as well as if 'twas yesterday* "I member when the Yankees come and took all of Miss Mary9a silver — took every piece of it* And another time they got three or four of the colored men and made em get a horse apiece and ride away with em bareback* Yankees was all rid in1 iron gray horses, and loo kinf just as mad* Oh Lord, yea, they rid right up to the gate* All the horses was just alike ~~ iron gray* Sho was perty horses* Them Yankees took everything Miss Mary had* 8. 37 "After the war ended we stayed on the plaoe one year and made a crop and then ay father bought fifty aeres of Mr* Ben Martin* He paid sons on it every year and when it was paid for Mr* Ben give him a deed to it* "I'm the only child my mother had* She never had but me, one* I went to school after the war and I member at night I'd be studyin' my lesson and root in' potatoes and papa would tell us stories about the war* I used to love to hear him on long winter evenings* "I stayed right there till I married* My father had cows and he'd kill hogs and had a peaoh orchard, so we got along fine* Our white folks was always good to us," 30353 38 a":> Interviewer Person interviewed^ Age 78 Thomas Slmore Lucy Iaoy Cotton Bussellville, Arkansas *Lucy Cotton1 a my name, and I was born on the tenth day of June* 1865, Jist two months after the surrender• No suh, I ain*t no kin to the other Cottons around heref so far as I knows* Uy mother was Jane Hays, and she was owned by a master named Wilson* *Ifve belonged to the Holiness Church six years* (They call us fHoliness,f bat the real name is Pentecostal*) "Yes suh, there1s a heap of difference in folks now fan when I was a girl—especially among the young people* I think no woman, white or black, has got any business wastin1 time around the votin1 polls* Their place is at home raisin1 a family» I hear em sometimes slinging out their fdamns1 and it sure don't soun1 right to me* "Good day, mistah. I wish you well—but the govf- ment ainft gonna do nothing. It never has yit*" v» 30719 39 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed________T. W* Cotton, Helena. Arkansas Age 80 ; WI was born close to Indian Bay* I belong to Ed Cotton. Mother was sold from John Mason between Petersburg and Richmond, Virginia* Three sisters was sold and they give grandma and my sister in the trade* Grandma was so old she wasnft much account fer field work* Mother left a son she never seen ag'in* Aunt Adelinefs boy come too* They was put on a block but I canft recollect where it was* If mother had a husband she never said nothing fbout him* He muster been dead* 'How my papa come from La Grange, Tennessee* Master Bowers sold him to Sd Cotton* He was sold three times* He had one scar on his shoulder* The pat rollers hit him as he went over the fence down at Indian Bay* He was a Guinea man* He was heavy set, not very tall* Generally he carried the lead row in the field* He was a good worker* They had to be quiet wid him to get him to work. He would run to the woods* He was a fast runner* He lived to be about a hundred years old. I took keer of him the last five years of his life* Mother was seventy-one years old when she died. She was the mother of twenty-one children* •Sure, I do remember freedom. After the Civil War ended,.Ed Cotton walked out and told papa: 'Rob, you are free.1 We worked on till 1866 and«we moved to Joe Lambert's place. He had a brother named Tom Lambert* Father never got no land at freedom. He got to own 160 acres, a house on it, and some stock* We all worked and helped him to make it* He was a hard worker and a fast hand* 2. 40 •I farmed all my life till fifteen years ago I started trucking here in Helena* I gets six dollars assistance from the Sociable Welfare and some little helpouts as I calls it—rice and potatoes and apples* I got one boy fifty-five years old if he be living* I haven't seen him since 1916* He left and went to Chicago* I got a girl in St* Louis* I got a girl here in Helena* I jus9 been up to see her* I had nine children. I been married twice* I lived with my first wife thirteen years and seven months* She died* I lived with my second wife forty years and some over—several weeks* She died© "I was a small boy when the Civil War broke out. Once I got a awful scare* I was perched up on a post* The Yankees come up back of the house and to my back* I seen them. I yelled out, fYonder come Yankees*1 They come on cussing me* Aunt Huthie got me under my arms and took me to Miss Fannie Cotton* We lived in part of their house* Walter (white) and me slept togeth- er* Mother cooked* Aunt Ruthie was a field hand* Aunt Adeline must have been a field hand too* She hung herself on a black jack tree on the other side of the pool* It was a pool for ducks and stock* *She hung herself to keep from getting a whooping* Mother raised (reared) her boy. She told mother she would kill herself before she would be whooped. I never heard what she was to be whooped for* She thought she would be whooped. She took a rope and tied it to a limb and to her neck and then jumped* Her toes barely touched the ground. They buried her in the cemetery on the old Ed Cotton place. I never seen her buried* Aunt Ruthie1s grave was the first open grave I ever seen* Aunt Mary was papafs sister * She was the oldest* "I would say anything to the Yankees and hang and hide in Miss Fannie1 s dress* She wore long big skirts* I hung about her* Grandma raised me on a bottle so mother could nurse Walter (white)* There was something wrong 3* 41 wid Miss Fannie* We colored children et out of trays* They hewed them out of small logs* Seven or eight et together* We had our little cups* Grandma had a cup for my water* We et with spoons* It would hold a peck of something to eat* I nursed my mother four weeks and then mama raised Walter and grandma raised me* Walter et out of our tray many and many a time* Mother had good teeth and she chewed for us both* Henry was younger than Walter* They was the only two children Miss Fannie had* Grandma washed out our tray soon as ever we quit eating. Shefd put the bread in, then pour the meat and veg- etables over it* It was good* "Did you ever hear of Walter Cotton, a cancer doctor? That was him* He may be dead now. Me and him caused Aunt Sue to get a whooping* They had a little pear tree down twix the house and the spring* Walter knocked one of the sugar pears off and cut it in halves* We et it* Mr* Ed asked fbout it* Walter told her Aunt Sue pulled it* She didn't come by the tree* He whooped her her declaring all the time she never pulled it nor never seen it* I was scared then to tell on Walter* I hope eat it* Aunt Sue had grown children* "The Ku KLux come through the first and second gates to papa's house and he opened the door* They grunted around* They told papa to come out* He didnft go and he was ready to hurt them when they come in* He told them when he finished that crop they could have his room* He left that year* They come in on me once before I married* I was at my girlfs house. They wanted to be sure we married* The principal thing they was to see was that you didnft live in the house wid a woman till you be married* I wasn't married but I soon did marry her* They scared us up seme* "I don't know if times is so much better for some or not* Some folks won't work* Some do work awful hard* Young folks I'm speaking 'bout* Times is mighty fast now* Seems like they get faster and faster every way* I'll be eighty years old this May* I was born in 1858*" 30773 ^ 42 k J$ Interviewer___________________Samuel S. Taylor_______________ Person interviewed_________________Ellen Cragin______________ 815^ Arch Street, Little Rock, Arkansas Age Around 80 or more _£___Q££&!**$ _ &£l„ J^i^L - -X "I was born on the tenth of March in some year, I donft know what one* I donft know whether it was in the Civil War or before the Civil War* I focget it* I think that I was born in Vicksburg, Mississippi; Ifm not sjire, but I think it was* "My mother was a great shouter* One night before I was born, she was at a meeting, and she said, 'Well, Ifll have to go in, I feel something.f She said I was walkin* about in there* And when she went in, I was born that same night* "My mother was a great Christian woman. She raised us right* We had to be in at sundown. If you didnft bring it in at sundown, shefd whip^you,— whip you within an inch of your life* "She didnft work in the field. She worked at a loom. She worked so long and so often that once she went to sleep at the loom* Her masterfs boy saw her and told his mother. His mother told him to take a whip and wear her out* He took a stick and went out to beat her awake* He beat my mother till she woke up* When she woke up, she took a pole out of the loom and beat him nearly to death with it. He hollered, fDonft beat me no more, and I wonft let fera whip you.1 "She said, fIfm goinf to kill you* These black titties sucked you, and then you come out here to beat me*1 And when she left him, he wasn't able to walk* *• 43 "And that was the last I seen of her until after freedom* She went out and got on an old cow that she used to milk—Dolly, she called it* She rode away from the plantation, because she knew they would kill her if she stayed* "My mother was named Luvenia Polk* She got plumb away and stayed away* On account of that, I was raised by my mother* She went to Atchison, Kansas—rode all through them woods on that cow# Tore her clothes all off on those bushes* "Once a man stopped her and she said, fMy folks gone to Kansas and I don't know how to find *em.' He told her just how to go. '•My father was an Indian* 'Way back in the dark days, his mother ran away, and when she came up, that's what she come with—a little Indian boy* They called him'law-hoofche• • His master's name was Tom Polk* Tom Polk was my mother's master too* It was Tom Polk's boy that my mother beat up* nlfy father wouldnft let nobody beat him either* One time when some- thin' he had did didn't suit Tom Polk—I donft know what it was~they cut sores on him that he died with* Cut him with a raw-hide „tfiip, you know* And then they took salt and rubbed it into the sores* "He told his master, 'You have took me down and beat me for nothin1, and when you do it again, Ifm goin' to put you in the ground.f Papa never slept in the house again after that* They got scared and he was scared of them* He used to sleep in the woods* ^ "They used to call me 'Waw-hoo'che1 and 'Red-Headed Indian Brat.1 I got in a fight once with my mistress' daughter,—on account of that* "The children used to say to me, 'They beat your papa yesterday.f "And I would say to them, 'They better not beat my papa,' and they would go up to the house and tell it, and I would beat 'em for tellin' it* 3. 44 "There was an old white man used to come out and teach papa how to read the Bible. "Papa said, fAin't you 'fraid they'll kill you if they see you?1 "The old man said, 'No; they don't know what Ifm doing, and don't you tell 'em# If you do, they will kill me#f Signs of the War "One night my father called me outside and told me that he saw the elements opened up and soldiers fighting in the heavens. " 'Don't you see them, honey?' he said; but I ccmldn't see them. And he said there was going to be a war. "I went out and told it. The white people said they ought to take him out and beat him and make him hush his mouth. Because if they got such talk going 'round among the colored people, they wouldn't be able to do nothin' with them. Dr. Polk's wife's father, Old Man Woods, used to say that the niggers weren't goin' to be free. He said that God had showed that to him* Mean Masters "Dr. Polk and his son, the one my mother beat up and left lying on the ground, were two mean men. When the slaves didn't pick enough cotton for them, they would take them down the field, and turn up their clothes, till they was naked, and beat them nearly to death. "Mother was a breeder. While she did that weaving, she had children, fast. One day, Tom Polk hit my mother. That was before she ran away. He hit her because she didn't pick the required amount of cotton. When there was nothin' to do at the loom, mother had to go in the field, you know* 4- 45 I forget how much cotton they had to pick. I donft know how many times he hit her. I was small. I heard some one say, 'They got Clarisay Down, down there!1 I went to see. And they had her down. She was stout, and they had dug a hole in the ground to put her belly in. I never did get over that. Ifm an old woman, but Tom Polk better not come fround me now even. "I have heard women scream and holler, fDo pray, massa, do pray.f And I was sure glad when she beat up young Tom and got away. I didnvt have no use for neither one of fem, and ain't yet. "It wasnft her work to be in the field. He made her breed and then made her work at the loom. That wasn't nothin1. He would have children by a nigger woman and then have them by her daughter. "I went out one day and got a gun. I donft know whose gun it was. I said to myself, 'If you whip my mother today, I am goin' to shoot you.1 I didn't know where the gun belonged. My oldest sister told me to take it and set it by the door, and I did it. How Freedom Came *Dr. Polk had a fine horse. He came riding through the field and said, 'All you all niggers are free now. You can stay here and work for me or you can go to the next field and work.1 nI had an old aunt that they used to make set on a log. She jumped off that log and ran down the field to the quarters shouting and holler- ing* "The people all said, 'Nancy's free; they ain't no ants biting her today.' She'd been setting on that log one year. She wouldn't do no kind of work and they make her set there all day and let the ants bite her* 5. 46 "Big Niggers* *They used to call my folks fbig niggers • * Papa used to get things off a steamboat * One day he brought a big demi-john home and ordered all the people not to touch it. One day when he went out, I went in it* I had to see what it was* I drunk some of it and when he came home he said to me, fYou've been in that demi-john.' I said, 'No, I haven't*' But he said, 'Yes, you have; I can tell by the way you look.' And then I told him the truth* "He would get shoes, calico goods, coffee, sugar, and a whole lot of other things* Anything he wanted, he would get* That he didn't, he would ask him to bring the next trip* "It was a Union gunboat, and ran under the water* You could see the smoke* The white people said, 'That boat's goin' to carry some of these niggers away from here one of these days.f "And sure enough, it did carry one away* Buried Treasure and a Runaway "I went to the big gate one morning and there was a nigger named Charles there* nI said, 'What you doing out here so early this morning?1 "He said to me, 'You hush yof mouth and get on back up to the house*' "I went back to the house and told my mother, 'I saw Charles out there.' That was before my mother ran away* "My mother said, 'He's fixing to run away* And he's got a barrel of money. And it belongs to the Doctor. fCause he and the Dr. went out to bury it to keep the Yankees from getting it.1 6. 4? "He ran away, and he took the money with him, too* He went out to Kansas City and bought a home* We didnft think much of it, because we knew it was wrong to do it* But Old Master Tom had done a heap of wrong too* He was the first one spotted the boat that morning—Charles was* And he went away on it* Plenty to Eat "My father woiild kill a hog and keep the meat in a pit under the house* I know what it is now. I didnft know then* He would clean the hog and everything before he would bring him to the house. You had to come down outside the house and go into the pit when you wanted to get meat to eat* If my father didn't have a hog, he would steal one from his master1 s pen and cut its throat and bring it to the pit* "My folks liked hog gats* We didn't try to keep them long* Wefd jus1 clean 'em and scrape fem and throw lem in the pot* I didn't like to clean fem but I sure loved to eat 'em* Father had a gpeat big pot they called the wash pot and we would cook the chit'lins in it. You could smell fem all over the country. I didn't have no sense. Whenever we had a big hog killin', I would say to the other kids, fWe got plenty of meat at our house.' "They would say back, 'Where you got it?' "I would tell 'em* And they would say, 'Give us some*' "And I would say to them, 'No, that's for us,1 "So they called us 'big niggers*f Marriages Since Freedom "My first baby was born to my husband* I didn't throw myself away* I married Mr. Cragin in 1867. He lived with me about fifteen years ?. 48 before he died. He got kicked* He was a baker. IXxring the War, he was the cook in a camp. He went to get some flour one morning. He snatched the tray too hard and it kicked him in his bowels. He never did get over it. The tray was full of flour and it was big and heavy. It was a sliding tray. It rolled out easy and fast and you had to pull it careful. I don't know why they called it a kick* "I married a second husband—if you can call it that—a nigger named Jones. He had a spoonful of sense. We didnft live together three months* He came in one day and I didn't have dinner ready. He slapped me. I had never been slapped by a man before. I went to the drawer and got my pistol out and started to kill him. But I didn't. I told him to leave there fast. He had promised to do a lot of things and didn't do them, and then he used to use bad language too. Occupation "I've always sewed for a living. See that sign up there?* The sign read: ALL KINDS OF BUTTONS SEWED ON MENDING TOO "I can't cut out no dress and make it, but I can use a needle on patching and quilting. Can't nobody beat me do in' that* I can knit, too* I can make stockings, gloves, and all such things. "I belong to Bib Bethel Church, and I get most of my support from the Lord. I get help from the government. I'm trying to get moved, and I'm just sittin' here waiting for the man to come and move me. I ain't got no money, but he promised to move ffle* » e. 49 INTERVIEIIEH^ COMMENT There it was—the appeal to the slush fund# I have contributed to lunch, tobacco, and cold drinks, but not before to moving expenses* I had only six cents which I had reserved for car fare* But after you have talked with people who are too old to work, too feeble to help themselves in any effective fashion, hemmed up in a single room and unable to pay rent on that, odds and ends of broken and dilapidated furniture, ragged clothes, and not even plenty of water on hand for bathing, barely hanging on to the thread of life without a thrill or a passion, then it is a great thing to have six cents to give away and to be able to walk any distance you want to# Interviewer Samuel S* Taylor Person interviewed Sallie Crane See first paragraph in interviewer* s oonmeaST" Age 90* or more for residence ............Lm I u^ A .^4^ "I was born in Herapstead County# between Nashville and Greenville, in Arkansas, on the Military Road* Never been outside the state in ay life* I was born ninety years ago* I been here in Fulaski County nearly fifty-seven years* "I was born in a old double log house chinked and dobbed* Nary a window and one door* I had a bedstead made with saw and ax* Chairs were made with saw, ax, and draw knife* Ify* brother Orange made the furniture* We kept the food in boxes* nl$r mother9 6 name was ISandy Bishop, and ray father1 s name was Jerry Bishop* I don't know who w grand folks were* They was all Virginia folks— that is all I know* They came from Virginia, so they told me* Igr old master was Barmen Bishop and when they divided the property I fell to Hiss Evelyn Bishop* Age "The first man that came through here writing us up for the Red Cross* I give him ay age as near as I could* And they kept that* You know peaoe was declared in 1865* They told me I was free* I got soared and thought that the speculators were going to put me in them big droves and sell me down in Louisiana* Ify- old mistress said, 'You fool* you are free* We are going to take you to your mammy#» I oried because I thought they was carry- ing me to see my mother before they would send me to be sold in Louisiana* u My eld mistress said she would whip ate* Bat she didn't* When we got to ay mother* s* I said* «Bew old is I?* She said* 'You are sixteen*' She didn't say months* she didn't say years, she didn't say weeks* she didn't say daysi she just said* 'You are sixteen*< And my ease worker told me that made me ninety years old* "I was in Bempstead County on Barmen Bishop's plantation* It was Hiss Polly, Harmon* e wife* that told me I was free* and give me my age* "I know freedom come before 1866* because my brothers would tell me to come home from Hashville where I would be sent to do nursing by my old mis- tress and master too to nurse for ay young mistress* "When my old master's property was divided* I don't km** why—he wasn't dead nor nothin*—I fell to Miss Evelyn* but I stayed 3a Nashville working for BLss Jennie Kelson, one of Harmon's daughters* Kiss Jennie was my young mistress* My brothers were already free* I don't know how Kiss Polly eame to tell me I was free* But ay brothers would see me and tell me to run away and oome on home and they would protect me* but I was afraid to try it* Finally Kiss Folly found that she eouldn't keep me any longer and she oome and told me I was free* But I thought that she was fooling me and just wanted to sell me to the speculators* Family "My mother was the mother of twenty ehlldren and I am the mother of eighteen* Ky youngest is forty-five* I don't know whether any of ay mother's ohildren is living now or not* I left them that didn't join the militia in Bsmpsteed County fifty-seven years ago* Them that joined the- militia went off* I don't know nothin' about them* I have two girls living that I know about* I had two boys went to France and I never heard nothin* 52 »bout -what happened to then* Hothing—not ft word* Red Cross has hunted 'em* Police mtohell hunted *est~poliee Mitehejl la Little Rook* But X ain't heard nothin* «bout *em* Work / J ttThe first work I did was nursing and alter that I was water toter* I reckon I was about seven or eight years old when I first "began to nurse* I could barely lift the baby* I would have to drag them ?round* Then I toted water to the field* Then when. I was put to plowing, and chopping cotton, I don't know exactly how old I was* But I know I was a young girl and it was a good while before the War* I had to do anything that come up—thrashing wheat* sewing logs, with a wristband on* lifting logs, splitting rails* Women in them days wasn't tender like they is now* They would call en you to work like men and you better work too* Uy Bother and father were both field hands* / Soldiers ttOo~oo~oo-ee-ee~eell Man* the soldiers would pass our house at day- light* two deep or four deep* and be passing it at sundown still marching making it to the next stockade* Those were Yankees* They didn't set no slaves free* When I kuowed anything about freedom* it was the Bureaus* Wa didn't know nothing like young folks do now* "We hardly knowed our names* We was cussed for so many bitches and sons of bitches and bim^y bitches, and blood of bitches* Wo never heard our names scarcely at all* First young man I went with wanted to know w initials! What did I know 'bout initials? You ask 'em ten years old now* and they'll tell you* That was after idle War* Initials!H 53 Slave Sales "Have I seen slaves soldi Good God, man; I have seed them sold in droves* I hare worn a buck and gag in ay mouth for three days for trying to run aonay* I oouldn't eat nor drinb-~couldn*t even catch the slobber that fell from my mouth and run down my chest till the flies settled on it and blowed it* 'Souse me but jus1 look at these places* (She pulled open her waist and showed scars where the maggots had eaten in—ed*) TShippJngs "I been whipped from sunup till sundown* Off and on* you know* They whip me till they got tired and then they go and res1 and come out and start again* They kept a bowl filled with vinegar and salt and pepper settin' nearby* and when they had whipped me till the blood oomef they would take the mop and sponge the outs with this stuff so that they would hurt more* They would whip me with the cowhide part of the time and with birch sprouts the other part* There were splinters long as ay finger left in my back* A girl named Betty Jones come over and soaped the splinters so that they would be softer and pulled them out* They didn't whip me with a bull whips they whipped me with a cowhide* They jus1 whipped me 'cause they could—1 cause they had the privilege* lb wasn't nothin' I donef they just whipped me* Ity* married young master* Joe* and his wife* Jennie* they was the ones that did the whipping* But 1 belonged to Miss Evelyn* nThey had so many babies 'round there I couldn't keep up with all of them* I was jus' a young girl and I couldn't keep track of all them chilen* While 1 was turned to one* the other would get off* Khen I looked for that one* another would be gone* Then they would whip me all day for it* They would whip you for anything and wouldn't give you a bite of meat to eat to save your life* but they'd grease your mouth when company come* 54 Food *1To ot oat of a trough -with a wooden spoony Hash, and milk* Cedar trough and long-haridled cedar spoons* Didn't know what neat was* Borer got a taste of egg* Oo-eel Weren't allowed to look at a biscuit* They need to make oltrons* They were good too* When the little white ehilen would bo comin* home from school, we'd ran to meet thorn* They -would say, 'Whose nigger are you?* And -wo -would say, 'Yer'nl' And they -would say, 'Ho, you ain't** They -would open those lunoh baskets and show us all that good stuff they'd brought back* Bold it out and snatch it back* Finally, they'd giro it to us, after they got tired of playing* Health "They're burying old Brother Jim Mullen over hero today* la was an old man* They buried one here last Sunday—eighty some odd* Brother Mullen had been siok for thirty years* Died settin' up—settin' up In a chair* The old folks is dyin* fas'* Brother Smith, the husband of the old lady -Oat brought you down hero, he's in feeble health too* Ain't been well for a long time* "Look at -that plaoo on my head* (There was a knot as big as a hen egg- smooth and shiny*-ed*) When it first appeared, it was no bigger than a pea* I scratched it and then the hair eomneneod to fall out* 1 went to three doctors, and been to the olinio too* One doctor said it was a busted -rein* Another said it was a tumor* Another said it was a won* I know one thing. It don't hurt me* I ©an serateh itf I can rub it* (She scratched and rubbed it while I flinched and my flesh orawled—od*) But. it's got me so I can't see and hear good* Dr* Junkins, the best doctor in the eommaalty* told me not to let anybody out en it* Dr* Bloke wanted to take it off for fifty dollar** 6* 55 I told him hefd let it stay on for nothin'* I never was siok in ay life till a year ago* I used to weigh two hundred ten pounds} now I weigh one hundred forty© I oan lap up enough skin on ay legs to go * round 'em twice© "Since I was siok a year ago, I haven't been able to get f round any© I never been well sinee* The first Sunday in January this year, I got worse sett in1 in the ohuroh© I oan't hardly get f round enough to wait on ay self* But with what I do and the neighbors1 help, I gets along somehow© Present Condition II If it weren't for the meroy of the people through here, I would suffer for a drink of water© Somebody ran in on old lady Chairs and killed her for her money© But they didn't get it, and we know who it was too© Somebody born and raised right here «mongst us© Sinoe then I have been 'fraid to stay at home even© III had a fine five-roam house and while I was down siek, sy daughter sold it and I didn't get but twenty-nine dollars out of it© She got the money, but I never seed it© I jus' lives here in these rags and this dirt and these old broken-down pieoes of furniture* I've got fine furniture that she keeps in her house* "I get some help from the Welfare* They give me eight dollars© They give me commodities too© They give me six at first, and they inoreased it© }gy oase worker said she would try to git me some more* God knows I need it* I have to pay for everything I get© Save to pay a boy to go get water for me© There's people that gits more fn they need and have plenty time to go fishin' but don't have no time to work* You see those boys there go in' fishin') but thatfs not their fault* One of the merchants in town had them out off from work beoause they didn«t trade with him* 7* 56 ^lotx gets tround lots, son* don't you? Well* if you see anybody that has some old shoes they don't want, git 'cm to give 'em to me* I don't oare whether they are men's shoes or women's shoes* Hen's shoes are more comfortable* I wear number sevens* I don't Tamr what last* Can't you tell? (I suppose that her shoes would be seven E-~ed*) 1 can't live off eight dollar* I have to eat, git help with wp washing, pay a ohild to go for a$r water, 'n everything* I got these dresses give to me* They too small, and I gob 'em laid out to be let out* "You just oome in any time} I can't talk to you like I would a woman] but I guess you can understand me*" Interviewees CoEment Sallie Crane lives near the highway between Sweet Home and Wrights- ville* Wrightsville post office, Luoinda Bays' box* IfcLain Birch, 1711 Wolfe Street, Little Rook, knows the way to her house* ^ Her age is not less than ninety, because she hoed cotton and plowed before the War* If anything, it is more than the ninety which she claims* Those who know her well say she must be at least ninety-five* She has a good memory although she complains of her health* She seems to be pretty well dependent on herself and the Welfare and is asldng for old clothes and shoes as you will note by the story* 30418 >S7 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Iaaao Crawford Brinkley, Ark. Age 75 nI was born the first year of the Civil War. I was born and raised and married in Holmes County, Mississippi. My parents was named Harriett and James Crawford. They belong to a widow woman, Miss Sallie Crawford. She had a girl named Bettie and three sons named Sam, Mack, (Jus. Mack and Gus was heavy drinkers. Moster Sam would drink but he wasnft so bad. They wasn't mean to the Negroes on the place* They had eight or nine families scattered around over their land. "I farmed till I was eighteen then they made me foreman over the hands on the place I stayed till after I married. "I know Sam was in the war and come home cripple. He was in the war five years. He couldn't get home from the war. I drove his hack and toted him to it. I toted him in the house. / He said he never rode in the war; he always had to walk and tote his baggage. His feet got frost bit and raw. They never got well. He lived. They lived close to Goodman, Mississippi. "I heard my mother say she was mixed with Creole Indian, She was some French. My father was pure African. How what am I? w01e mistress wasn't mean to none of us. She wrung my ears and talked to me. I minded her pretty good. "The children set on the steps to eat and about under the trees. Some folks kept their children looking good. Some let em go. They fed em - set a big pot and dip em out greens. Give em 2. 58 a cup of milk. We all had plenty coarse victuals. We all had to work. It done you no good to be fraid er sweat in them days. HI didn't know bout freedom and I didn't care bout it. They didn't give no land nor no mules away as I ever know'd of. "The Ku Klux never come on our place. I heard about em all the time. I seen em in the road. They look like hants. "I been farming all my life. I come here to farm. Better land and no fence law, "I come to 'ply to the P.W.A. today. That is the very reason you caught me in town today." Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Mary Crosby_____________ 1216 Oak Street> Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 76 "Good morning* I don't know anybody fround here that was born in slavery times fcept me. I donft know exactly when I was born in Georgia but I can remember my mama said her old master, Mat Fields, sent my father and all the other men folks to Arkansas the second year of the war. After the war, I remember there was a colored man named Mose come from Mississippi to Georgia and told the colored folks they could shake money off the trees in Mississippi. Of course they was just ignorant as cattle and they believed him. I know I thought what a good time I would have. I can remember seeing old master cry- ing cause his colored folks all leaving, but Mose'emigrated all of us to Mississippi. "He kept emigrating folks over there till he like to got killed. The white people give him a stayaway and told him not to come back, but he sure did get some colored folks out of Georgia* nI 'member they said the war was to free the niggers* They called it the Civil War. I never did know why they called it that* I canft 'member things like I used to* "My mother's old master's granddaughter, Miss Anne, had a baby that was six months old when I was born and mama 3aid old master come in and tell Miss Ann, 'I've got a new little nigger 2. 60 for Mary Lou#f He said he was goin* to give her ten and that I was her first little nigger# When we was both grown Mary Lou used to write to me once a year and say fI claim you yett Mary.* WI fmember when Garfield was shot. That was the first time I ever heard of gangrene. wYesfm I have worked hard all my life# When I was in Miss- issippi I used to make as much as ten dollars a week washin* and ironin*. But Ifm not able to work now. The Welfare helps me some** x Mrs. Mildred Thompson 30672. (COPY) n Dowto DiTislon ^ Federal Writers1 Project Union County, Arkansas. 61 ^0 Vfix FOLKLORE SUBJECTS (Ex-Slave) Ellen Crowley an old Negress of Jefferson county, known as "old Aunt Ellen" to both white and colored people. She was quite a character; a slave during Civil War and lived in Mississippi• She later married and moved to Arkansas. Aunt Ellen was much feared and also respected by the colored race owing to the fact that she could foretell the future and cast a spell on those she didn't like. This unusual talent "come about" while on a white plantation as a nurse. She foretold of a great sorrow that would fall on her white folks and in the year two children passed away. One day soon after she was being teased by a small negro boy to whom she promptly put thefcurse1 on and in later years he was subject to "fits." She said she was "purty nigh" 200 when asked her age, always slept in the nude, and on arising she would say: "I didn't sleep well last night, the debil sit at my feet and worried my soul" or vice versa "I had a good rest the Lord sit at my head and brought me peace." She was immaculate about her person and clothes and always wore a red bandana around her head. Her mania was to clean the yard. When asked about her marriage she would say: "I been married seven times but Jones, Brown and Crowley were the only husbands she could remember by name. She said the other "four no count Negroes wasn't worth remembering." She was ever faithful to those she worked for, and was known to walk ten and twelve miles to see her white folks with whom she had work. Would come in and say: "Howdy, Ifse come to stay awhile. IfU clean the yard for my victuals and 1 can sleep on the floor." She would go on her way in a few days leaving behind a clean yard and pleasant memories of a faithful servant. 30(386 #743 Interviewer__________________Samuel S» Taylor__________________ Person interviewed________________Richard Crump 1801 Gaines Street, Little Hock, Arkansas Agg 82 _____.....y^4^^/;§&,#'5 His wifes name was Ifrs* Elizabeth and his daughters name was Miss Inez. They say thats where the saying *He won*t last longer than John Moore did when he went to war11 sprang up but I donft know about that part of it for sure* Grandma Becky said when the Yankees came to Mrs* Moores house and to Judge Rieds place they demanded money but they told them they didn*t have none* , They stole and wasted all the food alothesj? beds. Just tore up what they didn't oarry with them and burned it in a pile* They took two legs of the chickens and tore them apart arid threw them down on the ground, leaving piles of them to waste* Bong her Mother and Grandmother sang4: Old Cow died in the fork of the branoh Baby, Ba, Ba* Dock held the light, Kimbo skinned it# Ba# Ba, Ba* Old cow lived no more on the ranch and frank^no more from branch, Kinba a pair of shoes, he sewed from the old cows hide he had tanned* Baby, Ba, Ba* POLKLOEE SUBJECTS Hams of Interviewer_______Ins* Bohartsea little Bock Blatriet, A rK . J£- Subject_________________Musical Instrument Story- Infomationdf not enough space on. thia page add page) "Die only musical inatraraent we had was a banjo* Some made their banjos* Sake a bucket or pan a long strip of wood* 3 horse hairs twisted made the bass string* 2 horsehairs twisted made the second string* 1 horse hair twisted aade the fourth and the fifth string was the fine one, it was not twisted at all bat drawn tight* They were all bees wand* This information given by Bettor Onrlett Place of Besidence____________Hasan. Irkaasai Occupation___________________Bashwoaaa 30643 kjrm1! '82 Circumstances of Inter view STATE-- Arkansas &AME OF WBKBE~Samuel S. Taylor ADDRESS—Little Rock, Arkansas DATE—December, 1938 SUBJECT—B^-Slave !• Name and address of informant—J« H. Curry, Washington, Arkansas 2« Date and time of interview— 3« Place of interview—Washington, Arkansas 4# Name and address of person, if any, who put you in touch with informant- s', flame and address of person, if any, accompanying you— 6. Description of room, house, surroundings, etc* FORM B 83 3~ Personal History of Informant STATE—Arkansas NAME OF WORKER—Samuel S# Taylor ADDRESS—Jbittle Rockf Arkansas DATE—December, 1938 SUBJECT—Bc-s lav e saASSK AND ADDRESS OP INK)E2dAOT?~J# H. Curry, Washington, Arkansas 1# Ancestry--fat her, Washington Curry; mother,Eliza Douglas?; grandmother; iflalinda Evans; grandfather, Mike Evans* 2* Place and date of "birth—Born in Haywood County, Tennessee in 1862* Z. Family— 4* Places lived inf with dates—Tennessee until 1883. From 1883 until now, in Arkansas? 5* Education, with dates—He took a four-years1 course at Haywood after the #ar. 6. Occupations and accomplishments, with dates—Minister 7. Special skills and interest—Church work. 8# Community and religious activities—Preacher 9# Description of informant— 10. Other points gained in interview—His father was a slave and he tells lots of slavery* ^H^PUPjw^^^^^^^?^^. ,' ™u ik' j^Hvp.^.^^ l^fitcuU 0 fext of interview (ffaedited) ^3N-t> SfAfS--Arkansas NAME OF 1DREER—Samuel S. fay lor ADDRESS—Little Hock, Arkansas DATE—December, 1938 SUBJECT^l^slave NAME MJ> ADDRESS OF INFORMANT—J. H* Curry, Washington, Arkansas ********* *v*********«*********« ???**??* "I was bom in 1862, September first. I got that off the Bible* My father, he "belonged to a doctor and the doctor, he was a kind of a wait man to him* And the doctor learnt him how to read and write* Bight after the War, he was a teacher* He was ready to he a teacher before most other people "because he learnt to read and write in slavery* There were so many folks that came to see the doctor and wanted to leave numbers and addresses that he had to have some one to 'tend to that and he taught my father to read and write so that he could do it* "I was born in Tennessee , in Bay wood County* My father was born in North Carolina* so they tell me* He was brought to Tennessee. He was a slave and my mother was a slave* His name was Washington Curry and my mother9s name was ELiza Douglass before she married* Her master was named John Douglass and my fatherfs master was named f* A* Curry, Tom Curry some folks called him. "I don't know just how many slaves fom Curry owned* Lemme see* There was my daddy, his four brothers, his fire sisters. Hy fa therms father had ten children, and my father had the same number—five boys and six girls* Ten of us lived for forty years, ^y mother had ten living children when she died in 1921* Since f21, three girls died* My father died in 1892* -H- "My father*s master had around a hundred slares* Douglass was a richer man than my father's master. I suspect he had two hundred slaves/ He was my mother's father as well as her master* I know him. Se used to come to our house and he would give mama anything she wanted. He liked her* She was his daughter* nMy father1 s father—I canft remember what his name was* I know his mother was Candace. 1 never did see his father but 1 saw my grandma* He was dead before I was born* My mother's mother was named Malinda Evans* Only one thing I remember, that was remarkable about her* Her husband was a free man named Mike Ivans* He come from up Berth and married her in slave time and he bought her* He was a fine carpenter* They used to hire him out to build houses* He was a contractor in slave time* 1 remember him well* "After the War* he used to have white men getting training for the carpenter1 e training under him* He mis Grandma Evansf husband* He wasn't my father9s father* My father was born before Grandma Evans was freed* All the rest of them were born afterward* ttiey sold her to him but the children all belonged to the Douglasses* He probably paid for her 4rit time and they kept the Children that was bozn* "The doctor was good to my father* Way after freedom, he was our family doctor* He was at my father's bedside when father died* He's dead now* "My father was a carpenter and a wait man (waiter)* He was a finished carpenter* He used to make everything 'round the house* Sometimes he went off and worked and viould bring the money back to his master, ani his master would give him some for himself. , "My mother worked 'round the house* She was a servant* 1 don't know that she ever did the work in the field* My daddy just come home every Saturday nigat* Vy father and mother always belonged to different masters in slavery time. The Douglasses and the Gurrys were five or six miles apart* My father nould walk that distance on Saturday night and stay there all day Sunday and git up before day in the morning Monday so that he would he back home Monday morning in time for his work* 1 remember myself vfoea we moved away# That's when my memory first starts. "I could see that old white woman come out begging and saying, fUncle Washington, please don't carry Aunt Lize away.f But we went on away. When we got where we was going, my mother made a pallet on the floor that night, and the three children slept on the pallet on the floor. Nothing to eat—not a bite. I went to bed hungry, and you know bow it is vyfaen you go to bed hungry, you can't sleep. I jerk a little nod, and then I'd be awake again with the gnawing in my stomach* one time I woke up, and there was a big light in the house, and father was working at the table, and mama reached over and said, fStick your head back under the cover again, you little rascal you.f I won't say what l saw. But I'll say this much. We had the finest breakfast the next morning that i ever ate in all my life. "I need to hear my people talk about pate roles but I don't reckon I can recall now what they said. There is a man in Washington named Bob Sanders. Be knows everything about slavery, and politics too. he used to be a regular politician. He is about ninety years old. They came there and got him about two year ago and paid him ten dollars a day and his fare. Han came up and got him and carried him to the capitol in his car. They were writing up something about Arkansas history. "1 have been married fifty-seven years. 1 married in 1881. My wife was a demons. 1 married on February tenth in Tennessee at St an ton. llancy Lemons. 4l> :# "I went to public school a little after the war* My wife and I hoth went to Haywood after we were married. After we married and had children, we went* I took a four-yearsf course there when it was a fine institution. It's gone down now. *I was the oldest hoy. We had two mules. We farmed on the halves. We made fifteen "bales of cotton a year. Never did make less than ten or twelve. "I have heea in the ministry fifty-three years# I was transferred to Arkansas in 1883 in the conference which met at Hteaboldt. l|y first work here was in Searcy in 1884. *I think the question of negro suffrage will work itself out* As we get further away from the Oivil War and the reconstruction, it will he less and less opposition to the Vegro's voting* You can see a lot of signs of that now* "I don't know about the young people* Sfc€y are gone wild. I donU know ihat to say about then* "I think where men axe able to work I think it is hest to give them work. A man that is able to work ought to he given work by the government if he oaaft get it any ether way** Interviewer________ Mrs* Bernlce Bowden_______________ Person interviewed Iyttleton Dandridgp_____________ 2800 W# Tfcnth Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Agfi 80 nI was told I was born in *57 in Bast Carroll Parish, Louisiana* •Oh, I can remember before the War broke out* Yes mafamf I had good owners* Old master and mistress was named James Railey and Matilda Ralley* I called her mistress* "I remember one time my father carried me to Natchez on Christmas to spend with his people* His parents were servants on a plantation near Natchez* •I remember two shows I saw* They was the Daniel Rice shows* They was animal shows but they had em on a boat, kind of a flatboat* We didnft have trains and things like that — traveled on the big waters* "I remember when we refugeed to Texas in f63* They raised tobacco there* "We got free in f65 and the Governor or somebody ordered all the owners to take all the folks back that wanted to go* "All the young folks, they had them in Tyler, Texas makin1 bullets* My father had the care of about fifty youngsters rnakin* bullets* w01d master had two plantations in Louisiana and three in Miss- issippi* He was a large slaveholder* "When we got back to Louisiana from Texas* ever * thing was the same except where the levees had been cut and overflowed the land* "Old master died before the War broke out and my mistress died in f67* 2. 89 "My father died in Texas* That left my mother a widow* She spent about two weeks at the old home place in Louisiana* She pulled up then and went to Natchez to my father's people• She made two crops with my young master* His name was Otie Railey. Help her? Well, I was coming I had one brother and one sister* "In f68 she worked with a colored man on the shares* "I started to school in ?67. A colored man come in there and established a private school. I went in f67, f68t and f69 and then I didnft go any more till f71 and '72* I got along pretty well in it* I know mine from the other fellows. I can write and any common business I can take care of* "We had two or three men ran off and joined the Yankees* One got drowned fore he got there and the other two come back after freedom* "My mother worked for wages after freedom* She got three bales of cotton for her services and mine and she boarded herself* "In »74 she rented. I still stayed with her* She lived with me all her life and died with me* "I come over to Arkansas the twenty-third day of December in 1916* Worked for Long-Bell Lumber Company till they went down* Then I just jobbed around. I can still work a little but not like I used to* "I used to vote Republican when I was interested in politics but I have no interest in it now* "The younger generation is faster now than they was in my time* They was more constrictions on the young people* When I was young I had a certain hour to come in at night* Eight o*clock was my hour*—not later than that. I think the fault must be in the times but if the parents started in time they could control them* s. 90 *I remember one time a cow got after my father and he ran, but she caught up with him* He fell down and she booed him in the back* My grand** father come up with a axe and hit her in the head* She just shook her head and went off* "Outside of my people, the best friend I ever met up with was a white man** 30685 Interviewer Samuel S» Taylor Person interviewed Ilia Daniels 1223 V* Eleventh Street, Little Rock, Arkansas Age 74» or over B. 6Gd( tfo- "I was born in North Carolina, in Halifax County, in the country near Scotland Nexk* My mother1 s name was Nellie Doggett* Her name was Hale before she married* My fatherfs name was Tom Doggett* I never did see any of my grand people• "My motherfs master was named Lewis Hale* He was a farmer* He was fairly good himself but the overseers wasn't* They have mistreated my mother* All I know is what I heard, of course; I wasn't old enough to see for myself• My mother was a field hand* She worked on the farm* My father did the same thing* "My father and mother belonged to different masters* I forgot now who my father said he belonged to* My father didn't live on the same plantation with my mother* He Just came and visited her from time to time* Food "Sometimes they didn't have any food to eat* The old missis some- times saw that my mother's children were fed* My mother's master was pretty good to her and her children, but my father's master was not# Food was issued every week* They give molasses, meal, a little flour* a little rice and along like that* 91 92 House "Hy mother and father lived in old weatherboard houses* I donft know whether all of the slaves lived in weatherboarded houses or not* Bat I nursed the children and had to go from one house to the other and I know several of them lived in weatherboarded houses* Most of the houses had two rooms* The food that was kept by the slaves, that is the rations, given them, was kept in the kitchen part of the house* Breeding nI don't know of any cases where slaves were compelled to breed but I have heard of them* I donft know the names of the people* Just remember hearing talk about them* freedom Comes *My mother and father never found out they were free till April 1865* Some of them were freed before then* I donVt know how they found it out, but I heard them talking about it* Right after Freedom ^ight after freedom, my father and mother worked right on in the same place just like they always did* I reckon they paid them, I donft know* They did what they wanted to* Patrollers, Ku Klux, and Reconstruction *I remember the Ku Klux* They used to come and whip the niggers that didnft have a pass* I think them was pateroles though* There was seme people too who used to steal slaves if they found them away from homef 3- 93 and then they would sell thesa* I don't know what they called them* I just remember the Ku Klux and the pateroles* "The Ku Klux were the ones that whipped the niggers that they caught out without a pass* I donft remember any Kii Klux i&ipping niggers after the War because they were in politics* Voters and Officeholders nI have heard of Negroes voting and holding office after the War* I wasnft acquainted with any of them except a man named Kane Gibbs and another named Cicero Barnes* I heard the old people talking about them* I donft know what offices they held* They lived in another county some- where* Life Since Emancipation "I went from North Carolina to Louisiana, and from Louisiana here* They had it that you could shake trees out in Louisiana and the money would fall off* They had some good land out there too* One acre would make all you wanted—corn or anything else* That was a rich land* But I donft know~I don't care what you had or what you owned when you left there, you had to leave it there* Never would give you no direct settle- ment or pay you anything; that is, pay you anything definite* Just gave you something from time to time* Whatever you had you had to leave it there* Occupational Experiences nI used to work in the field when I was able* That was when I was in the country* When I came to the city I usually did washing and ironing* 94 Now I canvt do anything* 111 the people I used to work for is dead* There was one woman in particular* She was a good woman, too* I donft have any help at all now, except my son* He has a family of his own— wife and seven children* Right now, he is cut off and ain9t making nothing for himself nor nobody else* Bat I thank God for what I have because things could be much worse** Interviewer's Comment Here again, there is a confusion of patrollers with Ku KLux* It seems to point to a use of the word Ku Klux before the War* Of course* it is clear that the Ku ELux Elan operated after the War* SUa Daniels1 age is given as seventy-four on her insurance policy, and I have placed that age on the first page of this story in the heading* But three children were born after her and before the close of the War* She says they were born two years apart* Allowing that the youngsst was born, in 1864, the one next to her would have been born in I860, and she would have been born in 1858* This seems likely too be-* cause she speaks of nursing the children and going from house to house (page two) and must have been quite a child to have been able to do that* Born in 1858, she would have been seven years old in 1865 and would have been able to have been doing such nursing as would have been required of her for two years probably* So it appears to me that her age is eighty* but I have recorded in the heading the same age decided upon for insurance* 30796 95 Interviewer_______________ Miss Irene Robertson_____________ Person interviewed Mary Allen Darrow. Forrest City. Arkansas Age 74 "I was born at Monticello, Arkansas at the last of the Cibil (Civil) War* My parents1 names was Richard and Ann Allen* They had thirteen children* Mother was a house girl and papa a blacksmith and farmer* *My great-grandma and grandpa was killed In Indian Nation (Alabama) by Sara and Will Allen* They was coming west long ffofe the war from one of the Carolines* I disremembers which they told me* Great-grandpa was a chief* They was shot and all the children run but they caught my Grandma STallae and put her in the wagon and brought her to Mont ice 11 ot Arkansas* They fixed her so she couldnft get loose from them* She was a little full-blood Indian girl then* They got her fer my great-grandpa a wife* He seen her and thought she was so pretty* •She was wild* She wouldnft eat much else but meat and raw at that* She had a child ffove ever she'd eat bread* They tamed her* Grandpa9 s pa that wanted the Indian wife was full-blood African* Mama was little lighter than fglngercakef color* "My Indian grandma was mean* I was feard of fer* She run us down and ketch us and whoop us* She was tall slender woman* She was mean as she could be* She'd cut a cat's head off fer no cause er tall* Grandpa was kind* He9d bring me candy back if he went off* I cried after him* I played with his girl* We was about the same size* Her name was Annie Math is* He mis a Mathis* He was a black smith too at Monti cello and later he bought a farm three and one-half miles out* I was raised on a farm* 2. 96 Papa died there* I washed and done field work all my life* Grandma married Bob Mathis* "Our owner was Sam and Lizzie Allen* William Allen was his brother* I think Sam had eight children* There was a Claude Allen in Monticello and some grandchildren, Eva Allen and Lent Allen* Eva married Robert Lawson* I lived at Round Pond seventeen or eighteen years, then come to Forrest City* I been away from them Allen1 s and Mathis* and 6illfs so long and 'bout forgot fem* They wasnft none too good to nobody—selfish* Theyfd make trouble, then crap out of it* Pack it on anybody* They wasn't none too good to do nothing* Some of *em lazy as ever was i&ite men and women* Seme of f em I know wasnft rich—poor as fJobefs stucky.1 I donft know nothing fbout fem now* They wasn't good© •I was a baby at freedom and I donft know about that nor the Ku KLux* Grandpa started a blacksmith shop at Monticello after freedom* "My pa was a white man* Richard Allen was mama1 s husband* "Me and my husband gets ten dollars from the Old Age Pension* He is ninety-six years old* He do a little about* I had a stroke and alnft been no 'count since* He can tell you about the Cibil War** Interviewer's Comment I missed her husband twice. It was a long ways out there but I will see him another time* 9" Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Alice Davis 1700 Vaugine Streetf Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 81 *I was born in Mississippi* My mistress was Jane Davis* She raised me* She owned my mother too* *When Miss Jane9 s husband died, he willed the niggers to his childun and Mandy Paine owned me then* When I was one month old they said I was so white Mandy Paine thought her brother was my father, so she got me and carried me to the meat block and was goinf to out my head off* When the childun heard, they run and cried, fMama,s goinf to kill Harriet's baby*1 Old mistress, Jane Davis, heard about it and she come and paid Miss Jane forty dollars for me and carried me to her home, and I slop right in the bed with her till the war ceasted* 7/ "Her childun was grown and they used to come by and say, fMa, why donft you take that nigger out of your bed?1 and shefd reach over and pat me and say, fThia the only nigger I got*1 *I stayed there two or three years after freedom* I didnft know what free meant* Big childun all laugh and say, YA11 niggers free, all niggers free.1 And Ifd say, fWhat is free?1 I was lookin1 for a man to come* "I worked in the house and in the field* I had plenty chances to go to school but I didn't have no sense* "My mother was sold to nigger traders and I never did see her again* I always say I never had no mother, and I never did know who my father was* s. 98 •Z'to worked bard since Z gat to be a wcaaa. Z never been the mother of bat three childtra* Ha and my boy atay together* •I baa a happy time when Z lived with Miss Jane, bat Z bean work in* ever since.* 99 Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden___________ Person Interviewed Charlie Davis 100 North Plum, Pine Bluff, Arkansas 76 •They said I was born in 1862, the second day of March, in Little Rock* "I 'member the War* I 'member the bluecoats. I knowed they was fight** inf but I didn't know what about * •My old master was killed in the War* I don't know his name, I just heered 'em call him old master* •I know old missis kept lookin' for him all durin' the War and looked for him afterward* As long as I could understand anything she was still lookin'* •Far as I know, my parents stayed with old missis after the War* •I 'member my father hired me out when I was a little boy* They treated me good* •Never have done anything 'cept farm work* I'm failin' now* Hate to say so but I found out I am* •I never did want to go away from here* I could a went, but I think a fellow can do better where he is raised* I have watched the dumb beasts go off with others and see how they was treated, so I never did crave to go off from home* I have knowed people have went away and they'd bring 'em back dead, and I'd say to myself, 'I wonder how he died?' I've studied it over and I've just made myself satisfied* •I went to school some but I was the biggest help the old folks had and they kept me workin'*" •;• ^ ¦$#t<&(0«*V=%» 30372 #*• Jjfeifvlewer Watt ;jferiEtafli^? Person Interviewed^ ^ B* Bafts B* F* l», six allies north of Marvellf Arkansas Age 85 Uncle B. Davis, an ex-slave, 85 years of age lives some miles north of Mar veil, Arkansas with a widowed daughter on a small farm the daughter owns* Uncle B himself also owns a nice little farm some distance further up the road and which he rents out each year since he is no longer ahle to tend the land* This old negro, now old and bent from years of work and crippled from the effects of rheumatism hobbles about with the assistance of a crutch and a cane* His mind however is very clear and his recollection keen* As l sat with him on the porch of his daughter's home he told me the following story:- "Tes Sir, Mr* HcKinney, I has heen in Phillips County fer pas forty-five years and I is now pas eighty-five. I wuz a grown en settled man when I fust / cum here en hed chillun nigh bout growd. Date how com me ter cum here on er count of one of my hoys* Bis boy he cum befo 1 did en hed done made one crop en dat boy fooled ma ober here frum Mississippi. To know how dese young bucks is* allus driftin er roun en he hed done drifted rite down dere below Marvell on de Cypress Bayou, en war wukin fer Mr* Fred Mayo when he writ me de letter ter cum ober here* I guess dat yo has heard of Mr* Fred Mayo dat owned de big plantation dere close ter Turner* Veil dat is de man whut ay boy wuz wid and atter I cum I jlned up wid Mr* Mayo en stayed wid him fer two years en 1 wud er ben wid him fer good 1 rekkin if fen 1 hadnft wanter buy ae er place of ay own* kase Mr* Fred Mayo he wuz a nathal good man en treted all he hands fair* •»&»" ftlhen I eided ter git me er little place of my own, I went en got tainted wid Mr* Marve Carruth kase he hed er great name wid de niggers, en all de nig- gers, in dem days dey went ter Mr* Carruth fer ter git de advice, en Mr. Car* ruth he hoped me ter git de place up de read whut is mine yit. Dere neber wuz no white man whut wuz no hotter dan Mr* Marve Carruth* So Sir dat is a fae* *lo see, Capn, I wuz horned en raised in de hills of Mississippi, in Oktibhawa County not so fer frum Starkville, en dat wuz a ole country time 1 hed got grown en de Ian hit wuz gittin powful thin, en when I cumed ter die state en seen how much cotton de folks mekin on de greun, en how rish de Ian, 1 jist went crazy oher die country en stayed rite here en mohed my fambly rite off. Folkses hed cotton piled up all er round dey houses en I cided rite off dat die war gwine ter he my home den. "My ole Mars ter wuz Tom Davis en Capn dere warnt never no finer man whut ever lihed dan Marse Tom. Harse Tom wuz luhed hy ehery nigger dat he hed, en Marse Tom sho hed a passel of em. Hfc had hettern two-humdred head en de las one dey crazy bout Marse Tom Davis. He war rather old frum my fust ric- colection of im, en he neber lihed meqy years atter de war* Marse Tom he owned a grete heap er lan« His Ian hit stretch out fer God knows how fer en den too he hed de big mill whut runned wid de water wheel whar dey saw de lum- ber en grine de meal ami de flour* Dey neber bought no flour en dem days kase dey raised de wheat on de place, en all de meat en nigh bout ebery thing whut dey hed ar need of. Marse Tom he tuk de best kine er care of his slabe people en ha neber blebe in buyin er sell in no niggers* Bat he didnft. He neber wud sell er one, en he neber did buy but three* Bat is er fac, Capn, en one of dam three whut he bought wuz "Henry" whut wuz my own pappy, en he buyed Henry frum Mr* Spence kase Henry hed done got married ter Malindy, whut wuz my mammy. Bat is whut my Mammy en Pappy dey bofe tole me* -3- 102 "Marse Tom he neber jine de army kase he too old when de war brek oat, hut Marse Phil he jined up* Marse Phil dat war Marse Tom's son, en de onliest boy dat Ole Marster en Ole Mis hed, en dey jist hed one mo chile en dat wuz de girl, Miss Rachel, en atter de war ober Miss lachel she married Capn Ban Travis whut cum from Alabama* Ole Marster he neber laked Capn Ben er hit, en he jes bucked en rared er "bout Miss Rachel gwine ter git married ter dat Capn, but hit neber done him no good ter cut up kase Ole Mis she sided wid Miss Rachel, en den too Miss Rachel she hab er head of her own en she know her Pa aint gwine ter stop her* Marse Tom he didnft lak Capn Ban kase de Capn he er big sport, en mighty wild, en lub he whiskey too well, en den he a gamblin man besides dat, do he sho war a fine lookin gent man • "Whilst Marse Tom he too old ter jine up wid de army, he hired him er man ter fite fer him in his place jes de same, en him en Ole Mis dey neber want Marse Phil ter jine up, en sey dey gwine ter hire er man fer ter tek Marse Philfs place so he wonft hatter go, but Marse Phil he sey he gwine ter do he own fit in, en eben do he Ma en Pa dey cut up right smart bout Marse Phil go in ter de war, he up en jine jes de same* Marse Phil he'neber wuz sich a stout, healthy pus sen, en he always sorter sikly, en it warnt long fore he tuk down in de camp wid sum kine er bad speller sikness en died* Bat wuz sho tuf on Marse Tom en de Ole Mis fer dem ter lose Marse Phil, kase dey put er heap er sto by dat boy, him be in de onliest son dat dey got, en day so t ached ter im* Hit mighty nigh broke dem ole peoples up* wNo sir* Capn, I betcha dat dere warnt airy uther er slabe-owning white man ter be foun dat wuz er finer man, er dat was mo good ter he niggers dan Marse Tom Bavis* How jes tek dis, dere wuz "Uncle Joe" whut mz ray grand- pappy, en he wuz jes bout de same age as Marse Tom, en dey growed up ter gedne der, en dey tole hit dat Marse Tom's pappy git "Uncle Joe* ufaen he war jes a 103 "boy frum de speckle-lady (speculator) fer er red hankerchief, dats how cheap he git im eoa, dat rite off he gib im ter Marse Tom, en atter Marse Tom git up en growd ter he er man, en he pappy died en lef him all de Ian en slates, en den atter er lot mo years pas, en Uncle Joe done raise Marse Tom seben chillun, den Marse Tom he up en sot Uncle Joe free, en gib him er home en forty acres, en sum stock kase Uncle Joe done been good en fathful all dem years, en raise Marse Tom all dem seben chillun, en one of dem seben wuz my own mammy ? "Capn, aint yo eber heard tell of de speckle-ladies? (speculators) Well, I gwine ter tell yo who dey wuz. Dey wuz dem folkses whut dealed in de niggers* Dat is whut bought em, en sole em, en dey wud be gwine round thru de country all de time wid a grete gang er peoples bofe men en womens, er tradin, en er buyin, en er sellin* Hit wuz jes lak you mite sey dat dey wud do wid er gang er mules* Jist befo dese here speckle-ladies wud git ter er town er planta- tion whar dey gwine ter try ter do sum bizness lak tradin er sich matter, dey stop de crowd long side er creek er pond er water en mek em wash up en clean up good lak, en comb em up rite nice, en made de wimmens wrap up dey heads wid some nice red cloth so dey all look in good shape ter de man whut dey gwine try ter do de bizness wid* Dats zackly de way dey do Capn, jes lak curryin en fixin up mules fer ter sell, so dey look bettern dey actually is* "Whilst Marse Tom Davis hed oberseers hired ter look atter de farmin of de Ian, he hed his own way er doin de bizness, kase he know dat all he niggers is good wUtkers, en dat he kin pend on em, so de fust of ebery week he gib each en ebery single man er fambly er task fer ter do dat week, en atter dat task is done den dey fru wuk fer dat week en kin den ten de patches whut he wud gib dem fer ter raise whut dey want on, en whut de slabes raise on dese patches dat he gib em wud "be deres whut-sum-eber hit wud be, cotton er taters -a- 104 er whut, hit wub be, dey own, en dey cud sell hit en hah de money fer dem- selves ter buy whut dey want* "Marse Tom he wud ride out oher de place at least once a week en always oft er Sattidy mornin, en ginerally he wud pass de word out mongst de folkses fer em all ter cum ter de "big house er Sattidy atter noon fer er frolic. Ebery pussen on de place frum de littlest chile ter de oldest man er woman wud clean dey selves up en put on dey "best clofs for ter "go tfefo de King", dats whut us called it* All wud gather in bak of de "big house under de "big oak trees en Marse Tom he wud cum out wid he fiddle under he arm, yo kno Marse Tom he war a grete fiddler, en sot hisself down in de chere whut Uncle Joe done fotched fer im, en den he tell Uncle Joe fer ter go git de "barrel er whiskey en he wud gib em all er gill er two sofs dey cud all feel rite good, en den Marse Tom he start dat fiddle playin rite lively en all dem niggers wid dance en hah de "bes kin er frolic, en Marse Tom he git jes es much fun outen de party as de niggers demselves, Dats de kine er man whut Marse Tom wuz* nI tell yo, Capn, My raarster he sho treated his slabes fair. Dey all draw er plenty rations once ehery week en iffen dey run out tween times dey cud always git mo, en Marse Tom tell em ter git all de meal en flour at de mill eny time dat dey need hit* Dats rite, Capn, en 1 sho tells dis fer de truf, en dat is I say dat iffen all de slabe owning white folks lak Marse Tom Davis, den dere wudn*t hen no use er freedom fer de darkies, kase Marse Tomfs slahes dey long ways better off wid him in dey bondage dan dey wuz wid out im when dey sot free en him dead en gone* "At Chrismus time on Marse Tomfs place dey wud hab de fun fer er week er mo, wid no wuk gwine on at all# De candy pullin, en de dances wid be gwine on nigh bout constant, en ebery one gits er present frum de marster. -6- nAH endurin of de war times, Marse Tom he neber raised no cotton er tall hut instid he raised de wheat, en de corn en hogs fer de Sonfedrits, en de baggage waggins wud cum from time ter time fer de loads of flour, en meal en meat dat he wud sen ter de army* De Yankees surahow dey missed us place en neber did fin hit, en do de damage er bruning en sich dat I is heard dat dey done in places in other parts of de state* We all heard one time dat de Yankees wuz close er roun en wuz on de way ter burn Marse Tom's mill but dey got on de wrorg road en day neber did git ter our place, en us sho wuz proud er dat too* Yit en still atter de war ober, Marse Tom, he had bout four hun- dred bales er cotton on han at de barn en de Yankee govment dey sho tuk dat en didnft pay him er bit fer dat cotton* I knows dat ter be er fac* WI members de war rail well, kase ye see, I wuz bout twelve year old when hit ober* Sn de last two er three years of de trubble I wuz big enuf ter be doin sum wuk, so dey tuk me in de big house fer ter be er waitin boy round de house, en I slept in dar too on er pallit on de floor, en er lot er times de Calvary sojers wud stop at Marse Tom's en apen de nite, en I wud be layin on de pallit but wudn't be sleep, en I cud hear dem talicin ter Marse Tom, en Marster he wud ax dem how de fite cumin on, en iffen dey whippin de Yankees, en de Calvary sojers dey say dat dey \*hippin de Yankees ebery day en killin .i em out, en Marse Torn he sey nYo is jes er big lie, how cum yo runnin er way iffen yo whippin dem Yankees? Dem Yankees is atter yo, en yo is runnin frum em dats whut yo doin. Yo know yo aint whippin no Yankees kase if yo wuz yo wud be atter dem rite now stid dem atter yow. No sir, dem Calvary sojers cudnft fool Marse ^om. "Yes sir, I tell yo, Capn, de slabes dey fared well wid Marse Tom Davis, en dere wudnft neber ben no war ober de slabery question iffen every body ben lak Marse Tom* All his peoples wuz satisfied en dey didn't eben know 105 -1- 106 what de Yankees en de Southern white folks rwuz fitin er bout, kase dey wuznft worried bout no freedom, yit en still atter de freedom cum dey wuz glad ter git hit, hut atter dey git hit dey don't know whut ter do wid hit* Bi atter de bondage lifted, Marse %m he called em all up en tell em dat dey free es he is, en dey kin lebe if dey want to, but dere wuznft nairy nigger lef de place* Dey ebery one stayed, en I spect dat er lot of dan Davis niggers is rite dere till yit on dat same Ian wid whoever hit belongs to* "When er slabe man en soman got married in dose days dere wuzn't no sich thing as er license fer dem* All dey hed ter do wuz ter git de permit frum de Marster en den ter start in ter libbin wid each udder. Atter de freedom do, all er dem whut wuz married en libbin wid one er nudder wuz giben er slip ter sho dat dey married, en ter mek dey marriage legal* "Atter/freedom cum ter de darkies, en de trubble all ober in de fitin, en atter de surrender, MarsefTom he hed his whole place lined out by de sur- veyor en marked off in plots er groun, en he sell er plot er forty acres ter ebery fambly dat he hed, on de credik too, en sell em de stock wid de place so dey kin all hab er home, en dey all set in ter buy de Ian frum Marse Tom, but hit warnt long atter dat till Marse Tom en ole Mis bofe died, en dat wuz when Capn Dan Travis, Miss Bachel's husband, he taken charge of de bizness en broke all de contracts dat de darkies hed made wid Marse Tom, an dat wuz de 1 las of de Ian buyin on dat place, en dat wuz de startin of de niggers er leavin de Davis place, wid Capn Dan Travis in charge, en Marse Tom gone. But Capn Dan he en Miss Rachel didnft keep dey place long atter her Pa dead, kase de Capn he too wiid, en he soon fooled all de money en Ian off wid he drinkin en gam- blin. "Capn, did yo eber hear of de rfChapel Hill* fight dat de colored folks en de white folks hed in Mississippi? I will tell yo bout dat fight en de leadin up ter de trabble. 107 •4 "Atter de war dey hed de carpet-baggers en de KLu Klux bofe, en de white folks dey didn't lak de carpet-baggers tolerable wellf dat dey didn't* I donft know who de carpet-baggers wujz hut dey wuz powful mean, so de white folks say. You know sum way er udder de Yankees er de carpet-baggers er sum oh de crowd, dey put de niggers in de office at de cote house, en er make in de laws at de statehouse in Jackson* Dat wuz de craziest hizness dat dey eher cud er done, er puttin dem ignorant niggers whut cudnft read er write in dem places* I tell yo, Capn, dem whut put dose niggers in de office dey raus not had es much since es de. niggers, kase dey mo ught know dat hit wudn't wuk, en hit sho didn't wuk long* Dey hed de niggers messed up in sum kind er clubs whut dey swaded dem to jine, en gib em all er drum ter beat, en dey all go marchin er roun er beat in de drums en goin ter de club meetins* Dem ignorant niggers wud sell out fer er seegar er a stick er candy* Hit wasn't long do till de trubble hit broke out en de fite tuk place* De Klu Klux dey wuz er ridin de country continual, en de niggers dey skeered plum sick by dem tall white lookin hant>-w±d dey hosses all white wid de sheets, en sum sey dey jes cum outen dey grabe en er lookin fer er niggers ter tek bak wid em when de day light cum* All de time de niggers habin dey club meetins in er ole loose house dere at Chapel Hill, en de KLux er gittin more numerous all de time, en de feelin mongst de white en de black wuz er gittin wus en wus, en one night when de niggers habin er grete big meet in, en er be at in dey drums en er carryin on, here cum de Klu KLux er sumpin er shootin right en lef en er pourin de shots in ter dat ole house en at ebery niggers dey see, en de niggers dey start er shootin bak but not fer long, kase mos of em done lit out fer de woods, dats is mos all whut ainft kilt, en dat wuz de bery las of de club meetins en de bery las of de niggers er holdin de office in de cote house* I heard "bout de fight de nex mornin kase Chapel Hill hit warn't fer -9- 108 frum whar I libed at dat time* I seed Dr# Marris Gray on jie rode oa he hoss, en he hoss wuz kivered wid mud frum he tall ter he head. Dr« Marris Gray he pulled up en se4,"Good mornin nDn is y© heard bout de fite whut wuz had last nite at Chapel Hill" en I sey "No Sir Doctor, whut fite wuz dat en whut dey fitin er bout?n, en de doctor sey he didn't know whut dey fightin tout les- sin dey jes tryin ter brake up de club meetin, en he went on ter ssy dat er heap er niggers wuz kilt en also sum white folks too, en sum mo wus. shot whut ainft dead yitf en dat he been tendin ter dem whut is shot en still ain't dead. Sn den I sey "Doctor Morris wuz yo der© when de fightin goia on"?, en de doctor he say "En cose I warnft dere yeudon't think I gwine be roun whai no shootin tekin place, does yoff?, en I say "Haw SuhH en de doctor he rid on down de rode den, but 1 knowed in my own mine dat Doctor Morris wuz in dat fightin, kase he hoss so spattered up wid mud, en I seed er long pistol barrel sticfcin out frum under he coat, en den sides dat 1 is knowed de doctor eber since 1 wuz a chile when Marse Toa uster hab him ter gib de darkies de medicine tfien dey sik9 en I seed him one night er ridin wid de Klu Klux en heard him er talk in when I wuz hid in de bushes Ion side de rode when 1 cumin home frum catchin me er possum in de thicket, en den Doctor Ifcrris he wid General Forrest all throo de war en he know whut fightin is, aa he sto wudnft neber go outer, his way to miss no shootin. 30149 l09 Interviewer Mrs, Berniee Bowden Person interviewed James Davis 1118 Indiana St. (owner), Pine Bluff, Ark* ^S6—.!L. Ocpupation Cotton garner "This is what's left of me. How old? Us? Now listen and let me tell you how 'tuas* Old mistress put all our ages in the family Bible, and I was born o;a Christmas morning in 1840 in Raleigh, North Carolina. "My old master was Peter Davis and he was old Jeff Davis* brother* There was sight of them brothers and every one of em was as rich as cream* "Old master was good to us* He said he wanted us sing in* and shoutin* and workin' in the field from morning to night* He fed us well and we hati. plenty good clothes to wear — heavy woolen clothes and good shoes in the winter time. When I was a young man I wore good clothes* "I served slavery about twenty-four years before peace was declared. We didn't have a thing in God's world to worry bout* Every darky old master hail, he put woolen goods and good heavy shoes every winter. 0hf he was rich — had bout five or six thousand slaves. Oh, he had darkies aplenty. He run a hundred plows* "I went to work when I was seven pullin' worms off tobacco, and I been workin' ever since* But when I was comin' up I had good times* I had better times than I ever had in my life. I used to be one of the best banjo placers. I was good* Played for white folks and called figgera for em. In them days they said •promenade', 'sashay*, 'swing corners'. 2< * change partners** They don't knew how to danoe now* We had parties and corn shuekln's, oh Lord, yes* "1*11 sing you a song •Oh lousy nigger Oh gran&mamny Knock me down with the old fence rider, Ask that pretty gal let me court her Young gal, come blow the coal*' "When I was twenty-one I was sold to the speculator and sent to Texas* They started me at a thousand and run me up to a thousand nine hunnerd and fifty and knocked me off* He paid for me in old Jeff Davis• shin plasters* *X runned away and I was in Mississippi makin' my way hack home to North Carolina* I was hidin* in a hollow log when twenty-five of Sher- man's Rough Eiders come along* When they got'close to me the horses jumped sudden and they said, 'Gome out of there, we know you're in there!* ind when I come out, all twenty-five of them guns was pointin' at that hole* They said they thought I was a Bevel and 'sorted the army* That was on New Years day of the year the war ended* The Yankees said, 'We's freed you all this mornin1, do you want to go with us?* I said, 'If you goin' North, I'll go.' So I stayed with em till I got back to North Carolina* "After surrender, people went here and yonder and that's how come I'm here* I emigrated here* I left Baleigh, North Carolina Christmas Its 1883* I've seen ninety-six Christmases* "I member the folks said the war was to keep us under bondage* The South wants us under bondage right now or they wouldn't do us like they do* 110 ». Ill "than I com© to this country of Arkansas I brought twelve chillun and laft four in North Carolina* I've had aix wires and had twenty-nine chillun by the aix wivea* •I've seen them Ku KLux in slavery times and I've out a many a grapevine. We'd be in the place dancin' and play in* the banjo and the grape vine strung across the road and the En KLux eome ridin* along and run right into it and throw the horses down* "Cose I believe in hants. They're in the air* Can't everybody see em* Some coma in the shape of a cat or a dog — you know, old folks spirits. X ain't afeared of em — ain't afeared of anything capt a panter* Coae I got a gun — got three or four of em* You can't kill a spirit capt with silver. "I waa in the road one time at night next to a cemetery and I see somethln* white come right up aide of me* Z didn't run than* You know you can git so scared you can't run, but when I got so I could, I like to killed myself runnin'. "I'm not able to work now, but I just go anyhow* I got a willin* mind to work and a strong eonatitution but I ain't got notfain' to back it* I never waa sick but twice in my life* "Since I been in Pine Bluff I worked sixteen years at night firing up and watchln' engines, makin' steam, and never loat but one night* I worked for the Cotton Belt forty-eight years. I worked up until the fuat day of thla laat paat May, five years ago, when they laid me off* •I'm disabled wif dia rheumatism now but I works every day any- way* *• 112 "I'll show you I haven't been asleep atall* I worked for the rail- road company forty-eight years and I been tryin* to get that railroad pension but there's so much Red Cross (tape) to these things they said itfd be three months before they could do anything** 113 Interviewer Mrs* Bernioe Bowden Person interviewed J3m Davis 1UZ Indiana StreeF" Age 98 Pine Bluff * Arkansas "Well, I*ve broke completely down* I ain't north nothin'* Got rheumatism all over me* n I never seen inside a sohoolbouse—allus looked on the out- side* "The general run of this younger generation ain't no good* What I'm speakint of is the greatest mass of 'em* They ainft healthy either* Why, when I was eomin' along people 'was healthy and portly looking Why, look at me* I ain't never had hut two spells of sickness and I ainft never had the headache* The only thing—I broke these three fingers* Bit a mule in the head* Killed him too* "Yes'rn* that was in slavery times* Why, they passed a lair in Raleigh, North Carolina for me never to hit a man with ay fist* That was when I was sold at one thousand nine hundred dollars* "Ever1 time they1 d make me mad I'd run off in the woods* wBut they sure was good to their darkies* Plenty to eat and plenty good clothes* Sam Davis was ay owner* And he wouldn't have no rough overseer*11 114 FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Name of interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bflwden Subject Slavery Time Songs Stoxy «¦ Information (If not enough space on this page* add page) "I used to be a banjo picker in Civil War times* I could pick a church song just as good as I could a reel* "Some of * em I used to pick was f Amazing Grace* * *01d Dan Tucker** Used to pick one went like this •Farewell, farewell, sweet Maryf I*m ruined forever 3y lovin* of youj Your parents donft like me* That I do lmow - I am not worthy to exrber your do** I used to pick •Dark urns the night Cold -was the ground On which the Lord might lay** I oould pick anything* * Amazing grace How sweet it sounds To save a wretch like ma** *Go preach ay Gospel Says the Lord* Bid this whole earth IQr grace receive; Oh trust ay word Ye shall be saved** I used to talk that on icy banjo just like I talked it there*11 This information given by Jim Bavig ( ) Place of residence 1112 -Indiana Street* Pine Bluff, Arkansas Occupation_______________ Hone___________________Age 98 3 0.0 115 FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Name of interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Subject __________________Superstitions Stoiy - Information (If not enough space on this page, add page) "Oh, yes mafam, I believe in all the old signs* "you can take a rabbit foot and a black cat*s bone from the left fore shoulder, and you take your mnxbh and scrape all the meat offin that bone* and you take that b'one and sew it up in a red flannel*—I know what I*m talkin* *bout now—and you tote that in your pocket night and day—sleep with it—-and it brings you good luck* But the last one I had got burnt up" when ay house burnt down and I been go in1 back ever since* "And these here frizzly chicken are good luck* If you have a black frizzly chicken and anybody put any poison or anything down in your yard, they111 scratch it up*" This information given by Jim Davis ( ) Place of residence 1112 Indiana, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Occupation___________________None____________________Age 98 30748 . cj( u * Interviewer Mrs* Bernlce Bowdea 116 Person interviewed________________Jeff Davia_________ 1100 Texas Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 85 "What's my name? I got a good name* Name's Jeff Davis* Miss Mary Yinson was some of my white folks* "Oh Lord yes, I was here in slavery times—runnin' around like you are—ten years old* I'm eighty-five even* "Soldiers used to give me dimes and quarters* Blue coats was what they called 'em* And the Rebs was Gray* "Yankees had a gun as long as from here to there* Had cannon-balls weighed a hundred and fo;rty-four pounds* "Ifm a musician—played the fife* Played it to a ?• Had two kinds of drums. Had different kinds of brass horns too* I 'member one time they was a fellow thought he could beat the drum till I took it* "Had plenty to eat* Old master fed us plenty* "Oh, I used to do a heap of work in a day* "I was 'bout ten when freedom come* Yes ma'am*" 30382 „«, H7 Interviewer _ Watt McKinney Person interviewed Jeff Davis___________._____ R*F*D# five miles south, Marvell, Arkansas Age 78 wIfse now seventy-eight year old anf gwine on seventy-nine* I was horned in de Tennessee Valley not far from Huntsville, Alabama* Right soon atter I was horned my white folks, de lelborns, dey left Alabama anf come right here to Phillips County, Arkansas, anf brung all the darkies with fem, an* thatfs how come me here till dis very day* I is been here all de time since then anf been makin1 crops er cotton an1 corn every since I been old enough* I is seen good times anf hard times, Boss, all endurin* of those years followin* de War, but de worst times I is ever seen hab been de last several years since de panic struck* *How-some-ever I is got flong first rate I reckon f cause you know I owns my own place here of erbout eighty acres anf has my own meat an1 all such like* I really ainft suffered any for nothin** Still they has been times when I ainft had nary a cent an* couldn't get my hands on a dime, but I is made it out somehow* Us old darkies what come up with de country, anf was de fust one here, us cleared up de land when there wasnH nothin1 here much, an1 built de log houses, anf had to git flong on just what us could raise on de land anf so on* Couldnft mind a panic bad as de young folks what is growed up in de last ginnyration* *You see, I was horned just three years before de darkies was sot free* An1 course I canft riccolect nothin* 'bout de slavery days myself but my mammy, she used to tell us chillun fbout dem times* 2. 118 *Like I first said, us belonged to de Welborns an* dey was powerful loyal to de Souf an1 er heap of de young ones fit in de army, anf dey sont corn anf cows an* hogs an* all sich like supplies to de army in Tennessee an1 Georgia. Bat*s what my manmy tole me anf I know dey done dem things^ an* dey crazy fbout Mr* Jefferson Davis, de fust an1 only President of de Confedracy, anf dat's how come me got dis name I got* Yas suht dat is how come me named f Jeff Davis#* An* I always has been proud of my name, fcause dat was a sure great one what I is named after* "My pappy was a white man, datf s what my mammy allus told me* I knows he bound to been f cause I is too bright to not have no white blood in me* My mammy, she named fMary Welbornft She say dat my pappy was a white man name 'Bill Ward* what lived back in Alabama* Bat*s all my mammy ever told me about my pappy* She never say iffen he work for de Welborns er no, er iffen he was an overseer er what* I donft know nothin* *bout him scusin* dat he er white man anv he named 'Bill Ward** My steppappy, he was name John Sanders, an* he married my mammy when I fbout f6ur year old, anf dat was atter de slaves taken outen dey bondage* "My steppappy, he was a fine carpenter an* could do most anything dat he want to do with an axe or any kind of a tool dat you work in wood with* I riccolect dat he made a heap of de culberts for de railroad what was built through Marvell from Helena to Clarendon* He made dem culberts outen logs what would be split half in two* Then he would hew out de two halves what he done split open like dey used to make a dug~out boat* Dey would put dem two halves together like a big pipe under de tracks for de water to run through* •There was several white mens dat I knowed in dis part of de county what raised nigger famblys, but there wasnft so many at dat# * 119 I will say this for them mens though* fhUrt it wasnf t right for dem to do like dat, dem what did have fem a nigger woman what dey had chillun by sure took care of de whole gang* I riccolect one white man in particular an* I * knows you is heered of him too* How-some-ever, I wonft call no names* He lived down on de ribber on de island* Dis white man, he was a overseer for a widder woman what lived in Helena an* what owned de big place dat dis man oberseer was on* Dis white man, he hab him dis nigger woman for de longest? She have five chillun by him, three boys an1 two gals* "After a while dis man, he got him a place up close to Marvell where he moved to* He brought his nigger fambly with hinu He built dem a good house on his farm where he kept thenu He give dat woman anf dem chillun dey livin* till de chillun done grown an* de woman she dead* Then he married him a nice white wonjan after he moved close to Marvell* He built him a house in town where his white wife live anf she de mammy of a heap of chillun too by dis same man* So dis man, he had a white fambly anf a half nigger fambly before* De most of de chillun of dis man is livin* /in this county right now* "Yas suh, Boss, I is sure fnough growed up with dis here county* In my young days most all de west end of this county was in de woods* There wasnft no ditches or no improvements at all* De houses an* barns was most all made of logs, but I is gwine to tell you one thing, de niggers anf de white folks, dey get erlong more better together then dan dey does at dis time* De white folks then anf de darkies, dey just had more confidence in each other seems like in dem days* I donft know how ftwas in de other states after de War, but right here in Phillips County de white folks, dey encouraged de darkies to buy fem a home* Dey helped dem to git it* Dey sure done dat* Mr* Marve Carruth, dat was really a good white man* He helped me to get dis very place here dat I is owned for fifty years* *• 120 An' then I tell you dis too, Boss, when I was coming up, de folks, dey just worked harder dan dey do these days* A good hand then naturally did just about three er four times as much work in a day as dey do now* Seems like dis young bunch awful no 'count er bustin' up and down de road day and night in de cars, er burnin1 de gasoline when dey orter be studyin' fbout makinf er livin' anf gettin' demselves er home* *Yas suh, I riocolect all fbout de time dat de niggers holdin' de jobs in de courthouse in Helena, but I is never took no part in that votinf business an1 I allus kept out of dem arguments* I left it up to de white folks to 'tend to de 'lectin' of officers* *De darkies what was in de courthouse dat I riccolect was: Bill Gray* he was one of de clerks; Hense Robinson, Dave Ellison, an' some more dat I don't remember* Bill Gray, he was a eddycated'man, but de res', dey was just plain old ex-slave darkies an' didn't know nothing* Bill Gray, he used to be de slave of a captain on a steamboat on de ribber* He was sorter servant to he mars on de boat where he stayed all the time*/ The captain used to let him git some eddycationt Darkies, dey never last long in de courthouse* DBy soon git 'em out* "I gwine tell you somepin else dat is*done changed er lot since I was comin' up* Dat is, ie signs what de folks used to believe in dey donft believe in no more* Yet de same signs is still here, an' I sure does believe in 'em 'cause I done seen fem work for all dese years* De Lawd give de peoples a sign for all things* De moon anf de stars, dey is a sign for all them what can read 'em an' tells you when to plant de cotton an1 de taters an' all your crops* De screech owls, dey give er warnin' dat some one gwine to die* About de best sign dat some person gwine die 'round close is for a cow to git to lowin' an* a lowin' constant in de middle of de night* »• 121 Dat is a sign I hardly is ever seen fail an1 I seen it work out just a few weeks ago when old Aunt Dinah died up de road* I heered dat cow a lowin* anf a lowin* an* a walkin* back anf forth down de road for *bout four nights in a row, right past Aunt Dinah1 s cabin, I say to my old woman dat somepin is sure gwine to take place, anf dat some pusson gwine die soon fcause dat cow, she givin* de sign just right« Dere wasnft nobody fround sick a tall an* Aunt Dinah, she plumb well at de time* About er week from then Aunt Dinah, she took down an1 start to sinkinf right off an* in less than a week she died* I knowed some pusson gwine die all right, yet an* still I didnft know who it was to be, I tell you, Boss, I is gittinf uneasy anf troubled de last day or two, f cause I is done heered another cow a lowin* an1 a lowinf in de middle of de night• She keeps a walkin* back an1 forth past my house% out there in de road* I is really troubled * cause me anf de old woman both is gittin* old* We is both way up in years an* whilst both of us is in real good health, Aunt Dinah v/as too* Dat cow a lowin* like she do is a bad sign dat I done noticed mighty nigh allus comes true*" ^-*: V>' v^' 'L.^ j Interviewer Mrs, Bornice Bowdon Person interviewed Jordan DaTie 306 Cypress Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas las 86 122 "I was a boy in the house when the war started and I heard the mistress say the abolitionists was about to take the South* Yes ma'm* That was in Natchez, Mississippi. I was about nine or ten* "Mistress1 name was Eliza JU Hart and master9 s name was Save A« Hart* "I guess they was good to me. I llred right there in the house with thenu Mistress used to send me to Sunday School and ahefd say 'Now, Jordan, you come right on back to the house, don*t you go playln1 with them nigger chillun on the streets.* "My daddy belonged to a nan named Davis way down the river in the country and after the war he earns and got me. Sure did* Carried me to Davis Bend* I was a good-sized boy about twelve or fifteen* He took me to Mrs* Leas Earner and you know I was a good-sized boy when she put me in the kitchen and taught me how to cook* Yes*m, I sure can cook* She kept me right in the house with her children* I did her cooking and cleaned up the house* I never got any money for it, or if I did I done forgot all about it* She kept me in clothes, she sure did* I didn't need any money* I stayed five or six years with her, sure did* I thought a lot of her and her children — she was so kind to me* ¦• 123 '•Yes ma9mt I went to school one or two years in Mississippi* "Ihen I cone here to Arkansas on the steamboat and got off right here in Pine Bluff, there was a white man stand in1 there named Burks• He kept lookin9 at me and directly he said 9Can you cook?9 I was married then and had all my household goods with me, so he got a dray and carried me out to his house* His wife kept a first-class boarding house* Just first-class white folks stayed there* After the madam found out I had a good idea 9bout cookin9 she put me in the dining room and turned things over to me* "Miss, it9s been so long, I don9t study 9bout that votin9 business* I have never bothered 9bout no Republican or votin9 business ~- I never cared about it* I know one thing, the white people are the only ones ever did met any good* "lira* J* B* Talbot has been very good to me* My wife used to work for her and so did I* She sure has been a friend to me* Mrs* J* B* Talbot has certainly stuck to me* "Oh I think the colored folks ought to be free but I know soms of 9 em had a mighty tight time of it after the war and now too* "JUn9t nothin9 to this here younger generation* I see 9em goin9 down the street singin9 and dancin9 and half naked ~~ ain't nothin9 to 'em. "My wife9s been dead five or six years and I live here alone* Yes ma9m! I don9t want nobody here with me." #749 124 Interviewer Mrs* Bernlce Bowden Person Interviewed Mary Jane Drucilla Paris 1612 W# Barraquc, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 75 * f Little baby1s gone to heaven To try on his robe Oh, Lord, I'm most done toiling here Little baby, m-m-BWtt-m-i3w,k "Oh, it was so mournful* ind let me tell you what they'd do* They'd all march one behind the other and somebody would carry the babyfs casket on their shoulder and sing that song* That9s the first song I remember* I was three years old and now Ifm seventy-three and crippled up with rheumatism* "Uj mother had a garden and they went • round that way to the graveyard and I thought they was buryin* it in the garden* That was in Georgia* •In the old days whan people died they tlsed to sit up and pray all night, but they don't do that now* "I was married young* I don*t lore to tall how old hut I was fifteen and whan I was seventeen Z was a widow* I tried and triad to gat another husband as good as my first one but I couldn't* I didn't marry than till I was thirty some* "My parents brought me from Georgia whan I was five years old and now I ainvt got no blood kin in Pine Bluff* "Do I believe in signs? Well, let me tall you what I do know* Before my house burned in 1937, I was sittin' on my porch, and my mother and sister come up to my house* They come a distance to the steps and want around the house* They was both dead but I could sea *em just as plain* And do you know in about two or three weaks my house burned* I think that vision was a sign of bad luck* *. 125 •And another tin© when I was havin' water put in ay house, I dreamed that my sister aho was dead told a friend of mine to tell me not to sign a oontraet and X didnft know there was a contract* ind that next day a man coma out for me to sign a contract and I said, 'No#' He wanted to know why and finally I told him, and he said, 'You're just like my mother*' It was two days 'fore I'd sign* She men had quit work wait in' for me to sign* But let me tell you when they put the water in and when they'd flush the pipes my tub overflowed* The ground was too low and I never could uee the commode* Now don't you think that dream was a warning? •Jfcist before I had this spell of sickness I dreamed my baby*«faef s dead-** come and knocked and said, 'llama*' ind I said* 'Yea, darlin', Ood bless your heart, you done been here three times and this time mama's comin'*9 I really thought I was goin' to die* I got up and looked in the glass* You know you can see death in the eyes, but I didn't see any sign of death and I haven't gone yet* •Last Saturday I was prayin' to God not to let pc get out of the heart of the people* You see, I have no kin people and I wanted people to come to my rescue* The next day was Sunday and more people come to see me and brought me more things* *I been in the church fifty-seven years* I'm the oldest member in St* John's* I joined in May 1881* •I went to school some* I went as far as the fourth grade?* Interviewer lHaa Irene Robertson Person interviewed Minerva Davis. Biscoe. Arkansas Age 56 #658 126 "My father was sold in Richmond, Virginia when he was eighteen years old to the nigger traders* They had nigger traders and cloth peddlers and horse traders all over the country coming by every few weeks* Papa said he traveled to Tennessee * His job was to wash their faces and hands and fix their hair-—comb and cut and braid their hair and dress them to be auctioned off* They sold a lot of children from Virginia all along the way and he was put up in Tennessee and auctioned off* He was sold to the highest bidder* Bill Thomas at Brownsville, Tennessee was the one bought him* Papa was a large strong man* "He run off and went to war* He had learned to cook and he was one- eyed and couldnft fight, ill the endurin9 time he cooked at the camps* Then he run off from war when he got a chance before he was mustered out and he never got a pension because of that* He said he come home pretty often and mama was expecting a baby* He thought he was needed at home worse* He was so tired of war* He didnft know it would be valuable to him in his old days* He was sorry he didnft stay till they got him mustered out* He said it was harder in the war than in slavery* They was putting up tents and moving all the time and he be scared purt nigh to death all the time* Never did know when they would be shot and killed* "Mama said the way they bought grandma was at a well* A drove of folks come by* It was the nigger traders* She had pulled up her two or three buckets* She carried one bucket on her head and one in each hand* 2« They said, 'Draw me up seme water to drink*f She was so smart they bragged on her* They said, 'She such a smart little thing*9 They went to see her owner and bought her on the spot* They took her away from her people and she never heard tell of none of them no more* She said there was a big family of them* They brought her to Brownsville, Tennessee and Johnny Williams bought her* That was my grandma* "Mother was born there on Johnny Williams9 place and she was heired by his daughter* His daughter married Bill Thomas, the one what done bought my papa* Her young mistress was named Sallie Ann Thomas* Mama got married when she was about grown* She said after she married she9d have a baby about the same time her young mistress had one* Mama had twelve children and raised eleven to be grown* Four of us are living yet* My sister was married when X was born* White folks married young and encouraged their slaves to so they have time to raise big families* Mama died when I was a year old but papa lived on with Johnny Williams where he was when she died* 1 lived with my married sister* I was the baby and she took me and raised me with her children* "The En KLux wanted to whoop my papa* They all called him Dan* They said he was mean* His white folks protected him* They said he worked well* They wouldn9t let him be whooped by them Ku ELuxes* "Miss Sallie Ann was visiting and she had mama along to see after the children and to help the cook whew she visited* They was there a right smart while from the way papa said* The pattyroUers whooped somebody on that farm while she was over there* They wasn9t many slaves on her place and they was good to them* That whooping was right smart a curiosity to mama the way papa told us about it* 127 »• 128 "When mama and papa married, Johnny Williams had a white preacher to read out of a book to them* They didn't jump over no broom he said* •They was the biggest kind of Methodist folks and when mama was five years old Johnny Williams had all his slaves baptized into that church by his own white preacher* Papa said some of them didn't believe niggers had no soul but Johnny Williams said they did* (The Negroes must have been christened~ed*) "Papa said folks coming through the country would tell them about freedom* Mama was working for Hiss Sallie Ann and done something wrong* Miss Sallie Ann says, fI9m a good mind to whoop you* You ain't paying 'ten- tion to a thing you is doing the last week*1 Mama says, 'Miss Sallie Ann, we is free; you ain't never got no right to whoop me no more care what I do*9 When Bill come home he say, 'How come you to sass my wife? She so good to you*' Mama say, 'Master Bill, them soldiers say I'm free*' He slapped her* That the first time he laid hands on her in his life* In a few days he said, fWe going to town and see is you free* You leave the baby with Sallie Ann.' It was the courthouse* They questioned her and him both* Seemed like he couldn't understand how freedom was to be and mama didn't neither* Then papa took mama on Johnny Williams' place. He come out to Arkansas and picked cotton after freedom and then he moved his children all out here* "Uncle Albert and grandpa take nights about going out* Uncle Albert was courting* "They put potatoes on fire to cook when next morning they would be warm ready to eat* The fire popped out on mama* She was in a light blaze* Not a bit of water in the house* Her sisters and brothers peed (urinated) on her to put out the fire* Her stomach was burned and scarred* They was all disappointed because they thought she would be a good breeder* 4. 129 Miss Sallie inn took her and cured her and when Miss Sallie inn was going to marry, her folks didnft want to give her Minerva. She tended (contended) out and got her and Agnes both. Agnes died at about emancipation. *Ifm named for my mother. Ifm her youngest child. "I recollect my grandmother and what she told, and papafs mind went back to olden times the older he got to be. When folks would run down slavery he would say it wasnft so bad with them--him and mama. He never seen times bad as times is got to be now. Then he sure would wanted slavery back some more. He was a strong hard laboring man. He was a provider for his family till he got so no f count. "Times is changing up fast. Polks is worse about cutting up and carousing than they was thirty years ago to my own knowledge • I ainft old so speaking. * J0798 180 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed_______Rosetta Davis» Marianne, Arkansas Age 55 "I was born in Phillips County, Arkansas* My folks* master was named Dr. Jack Spivy. Grandma belong to him. She was a field woman. I donYt know if he was a good master er not© They didnft know it was freedom till three or four months. They was at work and seme man come along and said he was going home, the War was over. Seme of the hands asked him who win and he told them the Yankees and told them they was free fer as he knowed* They got to inquiring and found out they done been free* They made that crap I know and I donft recollect nothing else. "I farmed at Foremanf Arkansas for Taylor Price, Steve Pierce, John Huey. I made a crap here with Will Dale* I come to Arkansas twenty-nine years ago* I come to my son. He had a cleaning and pressing shop here (Marianne)* He died. I hired to the city to work on the streets. I never been in jail. I owned a house here in town till me and my wife separated* She caused me to lo^se it* I was married once* 111 get ten dollars a month from the goverfment. "The present time is queer* I guess I could git work if I was able to do it* I believe in saving some of what you make along* I saved some along and things come up so I had to spend it# I made so little* "Education has brought about a heap of unrest somehow* Education is good fer some folks and not good fer scxne* Some folks git spoilt and lazy* I think it helped to do it to the people of today*" 30856 Interviewer \ Miss Irene Bobertson____________ Person interviewed____________Virginia (Jennie) Davis Scott Street, Forrest City, Arkansas Age 45 or 47 "This is what my father, Isaac Johnson, always told us: , fI was born in Raleigji, North Carolina. Mama died and left three of us children and my papa* He was a blacksmith*f I donft recollect grandpa1s name now* fA man come to buy me* I was a twin* My sisters cried and cried but I didnft cry* I wanted to ride in the surrey* I was sold and taken to Montgomery, Alabama*f "Angeline was his oldest sister and Ensaaline was his twin sister* He never seen any of his people again* He forgot their names* His old master that bought him died soon after he came back from Nprth Carolina* "His young master didn't even know his age* He tried to get in the army and he did get in the navy. They said he was younger than he told his age* He enlisted for three years* He was in a scrimmage with the Indians once and got wounded* He got twenty dollars then fifty dollars for his services till he died* "He wasnTt old enough to be in the Civil War* He said he remembered his mistress crying and they said Lincoln was to sign a freedom treaty* His young master told him he was free* The colored folks was having a jubilee* He had nowheres to go* He went back to the big house and sot around* They called him to eat, and he went on sleeping where he been sleeping. He had nowheres to go* He stayed there till he joined the navy* 2. 132 Then he come to Mississippi and married Sallie Bratcher and he went back to Alabama and taught school* He -went to school at night after the Civil War till he went to the navy. He was a light-brown skin* "Grandma, Jane Cash, was one brought from Huntingdon, Tennessee in a gang and sold at auction in Memphis, Tennessee* She said her mother, father, the baby, her brother and two sisters and herself was sold* divided out and separated* Grandma said one of her sisters had a suckling baby* She couldnft keep it from crying* They stopped and made her give it away* "Then grandma fell in the hands of the Walls at Holly Springs* Llississippi* She was a good breeder, so she didnft have to work so hard* They wouldnft let her work when she was pregnant* "Mrs* Wqlls buried her silver in the front yard* She had an old trusty colored man to dig a hole and bury it. No one ever found it* The soldiers took their meat and let the molasses run out on the ground* They ransacked her house* Mr* Walls wasnft there* "My auntie, Eliza Williamson, was half white* She was one of her masters sonfs children* Her first master put her and her husband together* She lives near Conway, Arkansas now and is very old* "Grandma was living at Menifee, Arkansas, and a man from De Vails Bluff, Arkansas come to her house* She saw a scar on his arm* He was . marked by gingerbread. She asked him some questions* Epps was his name and he was older than herself* He told her about the sale in Memphis* He remembered some things she didnft* He knowd where they all went* Her sister was Mary Wright at Milan, Tennessee. Grandma was twelve years old \/hen that sale come off* She shouted and they cried. She couldn?t eat for a week* 3. 133 •She said old man Walls was good to the®* Ihen my mama was a little girl she was short and fat and light color* Old man Walls would call them in his parlor, all dress up and shoM them to his company* He was proud of then* Hefd give them big dances 9ver so often* In the evening they had their ootl preaching in whits folks1 church* Grandma T^as good with the needle* She sesied for the mistress and her own family too* She had twelve children I think they said* They said her mistress had a Large family too* *Grandpa belong to Mike Gash* He give her husband lihat he made on Saturday evening* I think grandpa ¥as sold from the Walls to Mike Cash* . He took the Cash name and my mother ias a Cash and she married Isaac Johnson*, She was raised in Arkansas* Papa was married twice* I was raised around Holly Grovef Arkansas* That is where my folks lived in the last of slavery— * that is marnats folks* Papa come to Arkansas at a later time* *I think times is queer* I work and makes the best of fecu (Ten dollars a month house rent*} I wcrk all the time washing and ironing* (She has washed for the same families years and years* 'She is a light mulatto *-*> ed*} •Young folks is lost respect for the truth* Not dependable* That is their very worst fault* I think. "No-cam, I wouldnft vote no quicker fen Ifd smoke a cigarette* But I haoen never smoked narry one** r, 'y 41 **** 134 ' Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Subject Ex-Slaves Story ~ Information (If not enough space on this page, add page) *Katie Butler was my old missis 'fore I married my husband* His name David Davis* I cooked for Jeff Davis and took care of his daughter, Winnie* I stayed with old missis, Jeff Davis1 wife, till she died* She made me promise Ivd stay with her* That was in Virginia** (I have made three trips trying to get information and pictures of Winnie Davis* Her granddaughter said that a good many years ago when Winnie's mind was good, she was down town shopping and that when she gave her name, the clerk said, ••Were you named after Jeff Davisf daughter?11 and that Winnie replied, "She must have been named after me 'cause I cooked for Jeff Davis 'fore she was born.* Her mind is not very good at times, but the day I took her picture* I asked who she used to cook for and she said, "Jeff Davis** She is rather deaf, nearly blind and. toothless, but can get around the house quite well* The neighbors say that she has been a hard worker and of a very high-strung temperament* The granddaughter, Mattie Sneed, says her grandmother said she was sold in Virginia when she was eight years old*) This information given by Winnie Davis ( C ) Place of residence 304 g* Twenty-First Street Pine Bluff, Arkansas Occupation Hone Age 100 80080 135 Interviewer Bernlee Bowden. Person interviewed Leroy Day •. (o)______________ Age 80 Home _______123 N. Walnut Street, Pine Bjuffs Ark._______________________ n Good Lord yes,lady,I was here in slavery days. I remember my old marster had an overseer that whipped the people pretty rapid. w I remember -when the soldiers- the Yankees- come through, some said they was takin* things. "Old Marster, his name was' Joe Day,he was good to us. He seemed to be a Christian man and he was a Judge. They generally called him Judge Day. I never seen him whip nobody and never seen him have no dispute. I tell you if he wasnft a Christian,he looked like one • "I was born in Georgia and I can remember the first Governor * we had after freedom* His name was Governor Bullock. I heard it said the people raised a lot of sand because they said he was takin1 the pub- lic money. That was when Milledgeville was the capital of Georgia. "I used to vote after freedom. I voted Republican. I went to school a little after the war and then emigrated to Louisiana and Arkansas. nThings has got so now everything is in politics. Some votes cause they want their friends in office and some donft take no interest. "Some of the younger generation is prospering very well and some are goin1 kinda slow. Some is goin1 take another growth. The schoolin* they is g*ttinf is helpin1 to build fem up. "Yes mam,I use to be strong and I have done a heap of work in my life. Cotton and corn was the business, the white x&an had the land and the money and we had to work to get some of that money# 136 "I remember when the Ku Klux was right bad in Louisiana I never did see any- I didnft try to see fem. I know I heard that they went to a school house and broke up a negro convention. They called for a col- ored man named Peck and when he come out they killed him and one white man got killed. They had a right smart little scrummage,and I know the colored people ran off and went to Kansas• nThe fust man I ever seed killed was one time a colored man's dog got in another coldred manAs field and ate his roasting ears, it made him so mad he shot the dog and then the man what owned the dog killed the other man* I never did know what the punishment was. 11 Since I have become afflicted( Ifm ruptured) I canft do no work any more. I can't remember anything else. If I had time to study I might think of something else." 30452 137 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Hammett Dsll« Brasfield. Arkansas Age 90 *I was born in Tennessee, 10 miles from Morfreesboro* They call it now Releford# I was born October 12, 1847. I stayed wid old master till he died. I was bout thirty~five years old. He lernt me a good trade, brick laying He give me everything I needed and more* After the war he took me by the old brass lamp wid twisted wick -** it was made round — and lernt me outer the Blue Back Speller and Rithmetic. The spelling book had readin9 in it. Lady ainft you seed one yit? Then I lernt outer Rays Rithmetic and McGuffeys Reader. Old master say it ginst the law to teach slaves foe the war* Dat what he said, it was ginst the law to educate a nigger slave. The white folks schools was pay foe the war. "My old master had a small faxm. His wife died. He never married no more. I caint member her name. She died when I was a little bitter of a boy. They had a putty large family. There was Marion, William, Fletcher, John, Miss Nancy, Miss Claricy, Miss Betsy. I think that all. The older childern raised up the little ones. My master named Mars Pleasant White. Long as I stayed wid him I had a plenty to eat an9 wear anf a dollar to spend* I had no sense to save a cent for a old day. Mars White was a good man if ever one lived. He was a good man* Four old darkies all Mars White had# 2* They was my mama, grandma, papa, auntie* My name I would lack it better White but that is where the Dell part come in; papa bYlong to the Dells and bffo the war he talked to me bout it* He took his old master1 s name* They call him Louis Dell White* He didnft have no brothers but my mama had two sisters* Her name was Mary White* Them was happy days bffo the war* The happiest days in all my life* Bout at the beginnin1 of the war Mama took cole at the loom and died* We all waited on her, white folks too* She didn't lack for waitin' on* Something white folks et, we et* We had plenty good grub all time long as Mars White live* nHowfd I know bout to git in war? I heard white folks talkin1 bout it* One time I heard Mars White talkin' to my folks bout takin9 us away# We was happy an' doin' well an' I didn't lack the talk but I didn't know what "war" was* No mam that was two years foe they got to fight in1 down at l&irfreesboro* Mars White was a ruptured man* He never left our place* I never heard bout none of my folks bein' sold* Mars White aired (heired) all us* My papa left and never come back* I dono how he got through the lines in the army* I guess he did fight wid the Yankees* "Papa didn't speak plain* Grandma couldn't speak plain* They lisp* They talk fast* Sound so funny* Mama and auntie speak well* Plain as I do now* They was up wid Mars White's childern more* Mars White sent his childern to pay school* It was a log house and they had a lady teacher* They had a accordion* Mars Marlon's neighbor had one too* All of em could play* "White women would plat shucks an' make foot mats, rugs and horse collars* The white women lernt the darkle women* There was no leather s. 139 horse collars as ever I seed* I lerat to twist shucks and weave chair bottoms* Then I lernt how to make white oak split chair bottoms# I made all kinds baskets* We had all sizes and kinds of baskets* When they git old they turn dark# Shuck bottom chairs last longer but they kinner ruff an1 not so fancy* "Well when they started off f ightin9 at liurfreesboro* it was a continual roar* The tin pans in the cubbard (cupboard) rattle all time* It was distressful* The house shakin9 all time* All our houses jar* The earth quivered* It sound like the judgment* Nobody felt good* Both sides foragin9 one bad as the other* hungry, git tin1 everything you put way to live on* That's "war** I found out all bout what it was* Lady it ain9t nuthin9 but hell on dis erth* "I tole you I was ten miles from the war and how it roared and bout how the cannons shook the earth* There couldn9t be a chicken nor a goose nor a year of corn to be found bout our place* It was sich hard times* It was both sides cone git what you had* Whole heap of Yankees come in their blue suits and caps on horses up the lane* They was hunt in1 horses* They done got every horse and colt on the place cepin one old mare, mother of all the stock they had on the place* Young mistress had a furs bout her and led her up the steps and put her in the house* "Then when they started to leave* one old Yankee set the corner of the house on fire* We all got busy then* white folks and darkies both carry in1 water ter put it out* We got it out but while we do in9 that* mind out, they went down the lane to the road by the duck pond we had dug out* One old soldier spied a goose settin9 in the grass* *• 140 She been so soared she never come to the house no more* Nobody knowed there was one on our place* He took his javelin and stuck it through her back* She started hollowinf and flutter in1 till the horses, nearly all of em, started runnin9 and some of em buckin9* We got the fire bout out* le couldnft help laughin9 it look so funny* I been bustin1 I was so mad cause they tried take old Beck* Three of em horses throwd em* They struck out cross the jimpson weeds and down through the corn patch tryinf to head off their horses* Them horses throwd em sprawling That was the funniest sight I ever seed* *We got our water out of a cave* It was good cold limestone water* We had a long pole and a rope with a bucket on the end* We swing the pole round let it down then pull it back and tie it* They go to the other end and git the bucket of water* I toted bout all the water to both places what they used* One day I go in9 to the cave after water* I had a habit of throwin9 till I got to be prutty exact bout hittin9 • I spied a hornets nest in a tree long the lane* I knowd them soldiers be long back fer sompin else, pillagin9 bout* It wasn9t long show nuff they come back and went up to the house* "I got a pile of rocks in ray hands* I hid down in the hazel nut bushes* When they come by gallop in1 I throwd an9 hit that big old hornets nest* The way they piled out on them soldiers* Tou could see em fight in9 far as you could see em wid their blue caps* The horses runnin9 and buckin9* I let out to the house to see what else they carried off* "I tole Mars White bout how I hit that hornets nest wid the first rook I throwd* He scolded me, for he said if they had seen me they would killed me* 5. 141 It scared him* He said don9t do no more capers like that* That old hornets nest soon come down* It was big as a water bucket* liars White call me son boy* I tole him what terrible language they used, and bout some of the horses go in1 over the lane fence* It was made outer rails piled up* Mars White sho was glad they didn't see me* He kept on say in' son boy they would killed you right on the spot* Don't do uuthin' to em to aggravate em* "It look lack we couldn't make a scratch on the ground nowhere the soldiers couldn't find it* We had a ash hopper sett in9 all time* We made our soap and lye hominy• They took all our salt* We couldn't buy none* We put the dirt in the hopper and simmered the water down to salt* We hid that* No they didn't find it* Our smoke house was logs dobbed wid mud and straw* It was good size bout as big as our cabins* It had somepin in it too* 111 the time I tell you* "You ever eat dried beef? It is fine* "I say I been to corn shuckins* They do that at night* We hurry and git through then we have a dance in front of Mars White's house* We had a good time* Mars White pass round ginger bread and hard cider* We wore a thing on our hands keep shucks from hurt in' our hands* One darkie sit up on the pile and lead the singin'* Old Dan Tucker was one song we lernt* I made sobib music instruments* We had music* Folks danced then more they do now* Most darkies blowed quills and Jew's harps* I took cane cut four or six made.whistles then I tuned em together and knit em together in a row ^yQ^^^like a mouth harp you see* Another way get a big long cane cut out holes long down to the Joint, hold your fingers over different holes and blow* I never had a better time *• 142 since freedom* I never had a doctor till since I been 30 years old neither* •Later on I made me a how of cedar, put one end in my mouth and pick the string wid my fingers while I hold the other end wid this hand* (left hand* It was very peculiar shaped in the palm.} See my hand that what caused it* I have teen a musician in my time* I lernt to handle the banjo, the fiddle and the mandolin* I played fer many a set, all over the country mostly back home (in Tennessee)* "We had a heap of log rollins back home in slavery times* They have big suppers spread under the trees* We sho know we have a good supper after a log rollin1* "We most always worked at night in winter* Mama worked at the loom and weaved* Grandma and old mistress carded* They used hand cards* Auntie spun thread* I reeled the thread* I like to hear it cluck off the hanks* Papa he had to feed the stock and look after it* He'd fool round after that* He went off to the war at thrf first of it and never come home* "The war broke us up and ruined us all but me* Grandma married old man soon after freedom* He whooped and beat her up till she died* He was a mean old scoundel* They said he was a nigger driver* His name was Wesley Donald* She died soon after the war* Mama was dead* Auntie married and went on off* I was 18 years old* When freedom come on Mars White says you all set free* Tou can leave or stay on here* I stayed there* u*** White didn't give us nuthin'* He was broke* All he had was land* •Come a talk bout Lincoln givinf em homes* Some racketed bout what they outer git* That was after freedom* Most of em never got nuthin* • 7. 143 They up and left* Some kept on workin** They got to stealinf right smart* Some the men got so lazy they woulder starred out their fas** illes and white folks too# White folks made em go to work* The darky men sorter quit work and made the women folks do the work* They do thater way now* Some worse den others bout it* *lfe and Mars White went to work* We see droves darkies just rovin* round* Said they huntinf work and homes* Some ask for vic- tuals* Tea they give em something to eat* When they come in droves they eouldnft give em much* Some of em oughter left* Some of the masters was mean. Some of em mighty good* "lie and Mars White and his boys rigged up a high wheel that run a band to a lay (lathe)* One man run the wheel wld his hands and one man at the lay (lathe) all time* We made'pipes outer maple and chairs* We chiseled out table legs and bed post* We made all sort of thing** Anything to sell* We sold a heap of things* We made money* If I'd had sense to keep part of it* Mars White always give bis a share* We had a good livin1 soon as we got over the war* *I fanned* I was a brick layer* Mars White lernt me that* When he died I followed that trade* I workfcd at New Orleans* Tan Buren* Jackson* Meridian* I worked at lake Tilliage with Mr* Lesley* and Mr* Ivy* They was fine brick layers* I worked for Dr* Stubbs* Mr* Scroggin never went huntin9 without ms but once over here on Cache River* He give me land to build my cabins* I got lumber up at the mills here* Folks corns to my cabins from 23 states* J* T*»n Long at St* Louis sent me a block wid my picture* I didn9t know *hat it was* Mr* Moss told me it was a bomb like they Used in the World War* 8* 144 I had some cards made in Memphis, soma in Little Rock* I sent em out by the telephone books tellin* em it was good fishin1 now* " J* Dall Long said when I go back home X send you some thinf nice* That what he sent in the mail* "It was ugliest picture of me In a boat an1 a big fish holt my britches leg pullin1 me over out the boat* He had me named "Hambones" under it* I still got my block* I got nuther thing <*-* old aunties bonnet she wore in slavery* "I quit keep inf club house* I kept it 27 years* I rented the cabins, sold minnows and bates* They give me the land but I couldn't sell it* Old woman everybody call "Nig11 cook fer me* I wanter live like Nig and go up yonder* I ainter goner be in this world long but I want to go to heben* Nig was not my wife* She was a fine cook* She cooked anf stayed at my cabins* This little chile *- orphan chile — I got wid me was Nigfs grandchild* When Nig died I took him* I been goin with him to pick cotton* I want er lern him to work* KgMfeatlon aln9t no good much to darkies* I been try in1 to see what he could do bet tern farm* They ainft nuthin9* I set down on the ground and pick some so he will pick* He is six years old* Vhen it rain I caint pick and set on the wet ground* Ku KLux "The onlies sperience I had myself wid the Ku KLux was one night fo Grandma and auntie left* Somebody wrap on our cabin door* They opened it* We got scared when we seed esu They had the horses wrapped up* They had on white long dresses and caps* Svery one of em had •• 145 a horse whoop (whip)* They called me out* Grandma and auntie so scared they hid* They tole me to git em water* They poured it some whah it did not spill on the ground* Kept me tot inf water. Then they say, •You bin a good boy?11 They still drinkin1* One say, •Just from Hell pretty dry." Then they tole me to stand on my head* I turned summer sets a few times* They tickled me round wid the ends of the whoops* I had on a long shirt* They laugh when I stand on my head* Old liars White laughed* I knowed his laugh* Then I got over my scare* They say, •Who live next down the road?n I tole em Nells Christian* They say, "What he do?" I said, "Works in the field*" They all gruntf m-cnm-m* Then they say, "Show us the way*" I nearly run to death cross the field to keep outer the way of the itihite horses* The moon shining bright as day* They say Nells come out here* He say "Holy Moses*" He come out* They say "NelUs what you do?" "I farms*" They say "What you raise?" He say "Cotton and corn." They say "Take us to see yo cotton we jess from Hell* We ain9t got no cotton there*" He took em out there where it was clean* They got down and felt it* Then they say "What is dat?", feelin* the grass* Nells say "That is grass." They say, "You raise grass too?" He said, "No* It come up." They say "Let us see yo corn*" He showed em the corn* They felt it* They say "What this?" Nells say, "It grass*" They say, "You raise grass here?" They all grunt emjwiih31 everything Nells say* They give him one bad whoopin* anY tell him they be back soon see if he raisin* grass* They said "You raise cotton and corn but not grass on this farm*" They they moan, "m-KMa~m." I herd em say his whole family and him too was out by day light wid their hoes cuttin1 the grass out their crop* I was io, 146 sho glad to git back to our cabin* They didnft come back to Nells no more that I herd boat* The man Nells worked for master been one in that crowd* Be lived way over yonder * No I think the Ku KLux was a good thing at that time* The darkies got sassy (saucy) f trifling, lazy* They was notorious^ They got mean* The men wouldnft work* Their families have to work anf let them roam round over the country* Some of em mean to their families* They woulder starved the white out and their selves too* I seed the Ku KLux heap a times but they didnft bother me no more* I herd a heap they done along after that* They say some places the Eu KLux go they make em git down an9 eat at the grass wid their mouths then they *hoop em* Sometimes they make em pull off their clothes and whoop em* I sho did feel for em but they knowd they had no business strollin* round, vistinf« The Ku KLux call that whoopin' helpinf em git rid of the grass* Nells moster lived at what they called , Caneville over cross the field* The way that Batty Rollers was* The mostets paid somebody* Always somebody round wantin1 a job like that* Mars White was his own over* seer* All round there was good livers* They worked long wid the slaves* Some of the slaves would race* Papa would race* He wanted to race all time* Grandma cooked for all of us* They had a stone chimney in the kitchen* Big old hearth way out in front* Made outer stone too* We all et the same victuals long as Mars White lived* Then I left#" 30765 ,^ Interviewer_______________Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed James Dickey* Marianne. Arkansas Age 68 147 "I donft know much to tell about my folks© My parents died when I was young* Mother died when I was twelve and father when I was seven years old* Great-grandma was an Indian squaw* Ify father9 s pa was his young Blaster* His old master was named George Dickey* The young master was John Dickey* I reckon to start with my mother had a husband* She had twelve children but the last seven was by my pa* He was lighter than I am and paler* This red is Indian in me* I know how he looked and how she looked too* The young master neve* married* He had some brothers* My father lived with us and his pa was there too some* I don't know what become of John Dickey but my pa was buried at Mt* Tursey Cemetery* It was a sorter mixed burying grown (ground) but at a white church* Mother come here and was buried at Cat Island in a colored church cemetery* •I farmed in Mississippi, then I come to Miller Lumber Company and I worked with them forty-two years* I worked at Marked Tree, then they sent me here (Marianne)* *I voted in Cruthersville f Missouri last I voted* It donft do much good to vote* I am too old to vote* I never voted in Arkansas* I voted some in Mississippi but not regular* •Times is hard* So many white women do their own cooking and washing till it donft leave no work fer the colored folks* The lumber work is gone fer good* B* "The present generation is going baok'ards* For awhile it looked like they was rising~~Ifm speaking morally* They going back down in a hurry* Drinking and doing all kinds of devilment* The raoe is going baok'ard now* Seems like everybody could see that when whiskey oome back in* *I got high blood pressure* I do a little work* I wateh on Sunday at the mills* I don't get no help from the Gover'ment** 148 #71* 149 Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Benjamin Diggs 420 H. Cypress, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 79 •I was born in 1859 in North Carolina. Oh, sure, I remember when the Yankees come through. They said they done right smart of damage. I remember goinf by a place where they had burned it down. 33iey didn't do nothin* to my white folks Tcept took the stock* •The Lyles was my white folks. They called her Polly Lyles* Oh, they was good to us. My mother and her sister and another colored woman and we children all belonged to one set of people—Miss Polly Lyles; and my father belonged to the Diggs* "After freedom we moved off but they was good to us just the same, and we was glad to pay fem a visit and they was glad to have us* •Ifve heard my mother say she'd ignore the idea of a cold biscuit but my father said he was glad to get one. He said he didnft get fem but once a week* •Qh, indeed there was a lot of difference in the way the colored folks was treated. Some of fem was very good, just like they is now. •Well, all those old people is dead and gone now fcause they was old then* •I come here to Arkansas in f88. That was when they was enigratin1 the folks. I was grown and married then. I was twenty-six when I married in f85. •I went to school a little* I can sorta scribble a little and read a little, but my eyes is failin1 now. I started wearinf glasses u 150 'fore I really needed fem* I got to project in* with my mother1 s glasses * Looked like they read so good* "Farmin* is all I know how to do* Hever done anything else* I owned some land and farmed for myself* "Sure, I used to vote—Republican* I never had any trouble* I always tried to conduct my life to avoid trouble* I believe in that policy* "I joined the church when I was very youngf very young* I go by the Golden Rule and by the Bible* *I first lived in Pope County* "I learned since I come here to Pine Bluff there fs enough churches here to save the world, but therefs some mean people here*" 151 j QH^y^-<)_______________ object_______Customs - Slavery Days ,/ell honey ah canft tell jes when ah wuz born. De whit.e fokes have mah age. Ah blong tuh de Kewtons. As near as ah can get at mah age ahm bout 74 now but ah wuz big nough to member the soldiers comin aroun atter surrender. Mah mntha had ten chillun but ah can't member but two uv mah sisters and one uv mah bruthes. Vie staid wi<: de ftewtons till we wuz set free and I nuss fuh de Kewtons aftuh v,e wuz set free. De Kewtons wuz awful good ter me and dey wuz good tuh mah ma too. Ah slept up in de big house wid de Kewtonj. Ah nevah went tor school. Ah didn* have a chance. Ah went ter church jes sometimes. We didn have churches. We jes had meet in in our house we lived in. We cooked on fire places. We cooked our bread in what we v called over bout so high. We had chickens and eggs, peas, tatoes, meat and bread but ah didn know there was no sich thing a3 cake an pie till ah got to be an oraan. Ji can't recollect jes how ole ah wuz in slave tine but ah shore can recollect dem ;,raiiK:ees riding dem bosses and ah ask may ma what dey was doin and she said gatherin up cotton dey made in slave time an ah kin recollect an onan a' gin. Yo know we had steps made of blocks sawad from trees and she wuz a goin ovah em steps or shoiitin and singin "Ah am free, at last, ah am free at last, ahfm free at last, thank Gewd a eighty ahfm free at last.* She wuz so glad ter be free. My ma in huh time would make cloth. L>he 'had a loom. Hit wuz a high thing and th thread would &o ovah th top and come down jes so in what we call shickle. Lihe'd have a bench so high. The loom was high as dis door and my ma would set on the bench a; (] her foots wuz on sornethin like a bicycle and when she put her foots on de pedal dat s ickle would come open and make a blum blum an that would make a yard of cloth, an 3hefd mash the pedal a&in and another yard of cloth. Jes so we'd make eight and ten ."anis of cloth in one day. An when hit wuz made wa would carry hit to de white fokes. r,3y would make us clofes outn dat cloth. Ifn dey wanted colored cloth dey would dye ae thread. Dey had what we called a loom dat would make, Lef me see now, Card would card the cotton, and de looms would make de t tread and de shickle would make de cloth, -a well as ah can recollect we would make little roll uv cotton on de cards an put it on de loom and make thread. De looms was jes so long. Ever time the wheel would say o-o~o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o we had a spool uv thread. Ah don1 know whar dey got the spools, made em tho ah guess. Ah jes caint tell^you how hit wua hits so much. De Newton's nevah did whup me. She started to whup me tho one day. Ah. kin recollect bout de dogs. There wuz one dog whut wuz called Dinah. But yo know dey had ten uv em. One day 6le uncle Henry Jones done somethin and run off and climbed a tree and de Newton1 s miss him so dey called de dogs and dey went on to de tree. Dat very tree wha he wuz and stopped. Uncle Henry had been gone all dat mornin and dem dogs track him right dere, to de spot and wouldn let him down till de Newtons come. An chile dem Hewtons whip de skin off Uncle Hernyfs back. Dem dogs would git yo. Mrs. Newton nevah got outn de bed no time. Ah would lift her from one bed to de utha to make de beds and when she got ready to get dressed ah would bath her and dress huh all de times. . Ahfll tell yo nother funny joke bout Henry Johnson. He had ter clean up mos uv de time. So Mrs. Newton1 s dress wuz hangin in de room up on de wall and when he come out he said to ole Uncle Jerry, he said: ,fJerry guess whut ah done" and Jerry said: "Whut?" And U^cle Henry said: "Ah put mah han undah ole Mistess dress." yncle Jerry said: Whut did she say?" Uncle Henry say: "She didnf say nothin." So Uncle Jerry cided hefd try hit. So he went draggin on iime house. Set down on de floor by ole mistess. Ater while he run his hanf up under huh dress and old marster jumped up and jumped on Jerry and like tobeat him ter death. Jerry went out cryin and got out and called Henry, He said: "Henry ah though yo iiaid yo put yo hand undah ole Mistess's dress and she didn1 say nothin." Uncle Henry said: nAh did and she didn1 say nuthin." Jerry said: "Ah put mah hanf undah huh dress and ole marster like tuh beat me ter death.w Uncle Henry said: "Yo crazy thing huh dreSs wuz hangin up on de wall when ah put mah han up undah hit." *7e didn9 eat eggs only on Sunday mornin. Me and mah sis et together in de same Plate. #e didn know whut knives and forkes wuz den. We et wid our fingahs. Ah had a good ole pa too. He died a long time ago* Ah member one night he started toh whoop mah brudder and mah pa and mah brudder had hit. So'mah brudder runned off, -3- 155 an de raarster called ole Dinah, Dinah wuz a dog yo know but Dinah was a big dog ovah the other dogs yo know and dem dogs went and got me brudder and dem Newtons sho did beat him. But twasnt long befo mah pa taken sifik and died aftuh dat. An when we wuz goin ter bury mah pa lemme tell yo what happened: ftwo turtle doves flew roun the wagon three times, den dey flew right on top uv mah pafs coffin box an hollered three times; and yo know mah sistuh died bout three days aftuh dat. Ah didn1 bleave in si&Jis till den. Ah know mah pa always bleaved in signs cause ah know when hit would start lightnin and thunderin round dat place of ourn mail pa would always make us stop He say twas bad luck. An ah know when evah a dove would holler at night hef d tell us jes tuh tie a knot in thf south cornuh uv de sheet and he would hush. An we would do hit an he would hush, Yo kno hits bad luck fuh dem tuh holler roun yo place. Oh we use ter have lots o sheep, at least ole mistess did. We made all of our wool clothes from dem sheeps wool and let me tell yo somethin else, ah think ah got some sheep wool in mah trunk now ah had hit fifty yearns. Hits good fer sores if yo has er cut on yo han1 or feet or if blood poison set up jes take a little piece of dat wool ldTi an put a piece of fire on hit ana some the sore parts and chile, honey, hit will git well right now. Chile ah had use ter ruther go ter dances than ter eat. Ah'd go ter dances an git nearly dare and heah dem fiddles. Uh, myt ah jus couldn make mah foots act right. We use ter dance sixteen sets. We'd be er dancing ahd hit would sound so good. Someone would say swing de one yo love bes but ah wouldn swing de one ah love best cause ah didn i*ant anyone.tuh know him. On Sunday mornin dats when we play. Ole marster would put a rope cross fer us ter jump and wefd line up. The rope wuz bout five feet high and chile if we didn* jump it we'd catch hit. 0-o-o-o-oooo. He had ter run. He line up two fct a time an he say one fuh de money, two fuh de show, three tuh make ready and fof tuh go. An yo tftlk bout runnin. We had ter run. He would make us box and de one dat igit^hooped is de one dat would haft ter box till he got whooped and we had ter whoop three times befof stoppin. Oh chile, ah had a time when ah wuz a chile. -4- 156 7hio information given by____________Alice Dixon ,ee of Residence__________Rock Island quarters occupation__________None______________________________________Age 80 (ap;;Pox) 30504 ® 157 Interviewer______Miss Irene Robertson_____ Person Interviewed Lake D. Dixon' DeValls Bluff, Ark. Age 81 "My father fs owner was Jim Dixon in Eibno County, Virginia* That is where I was born. I am 81 years old. Jim Dixon had several boys - Baldwin and Joe. Joe took some of the slaves, his pa give him, and went to New Mexico to shun the war. Uncle and pa went in the war as waiters. They went in at the ending up. We lived on the big road that run to the Atlantic Ocean. Not far from Richmond. Ma lived three or four miles from Pa. She lived across big creek - now they call it Parrohs Run. Ma belong to Harper Williams. Pa!s folks was very good but Ma's T folks was unpleasant* "Ma lived to be 103 years old. Pa died in 1905 and was 105 years old. I used to set on Grandma's lap and she told me about how they used to catch people in Africa. They herded them up like cattle and put them in stalls and brought them on the ship and sold them. She said some they captured they left bound till they come back and sometimes they never went back to get them. They died. They had room in the stalls on the boat to set down or lie down. They put several together. Put the men to themselves and the women to themselves. When they sold Grandma and Grandpa at a fishing dock called New Port, Va*, they had their feet bound down and their hands bound crossed, up on a platform* They sold Grandma's daughter to somebody in *. 158 Texas. She cried and "begged to let them be together. They didn't pay no 'tenshion to her. She couldn't talk but she made them know she didn't want to be parted. Six years after slavery they got together. When a boat was to come in people come and. wait to buy slaves. They had several days of selling. X never seen this but that is the way it was told to me. "The white folks had an iron clip that fastened the thumbs together and they would swing the man or woman up in a tree and whoop them. I seen that done in Virginia across from where I lived. I don't know what the folks had done. They pulled the man up with block and tackle. "Another thing I seen done was put three or four chinqua- pin switches together green, twist' them and dry them. They would cry like a leather whip. They whooped the slaves with them. "Grandpa was named Sam Abraham and Fhillis Abraham was his mate. They was sold twice. Once she was sold away from her husband to a speculator. Well, it was hard on the Africans to be treated like cattle. I never heard of the Nat Turner rebel- lion. I have heard of slaves buying their own freedom. X don't know how it was done. I have heard of folks being helped to run off. Grandma on mother's side had a brother run off from Dalton, Mississippi to the North. After the war he come to Virginia. "When freedom was declared we left and went to Wilmington and Wilson, North Carolina. Dixon never told us we was free but at the end of the year he gave my father a gray mule he had ploughed for a long time and part of the crop. My mother jes 3. picked us up and left her folks now. She was cooking then I recollect. Polks jes went wild when they got turned loose. "My parents was first married under a twenty-five cents license law in Virginia. After freedom they was remarried un- der a new law and the license cost more but I forgot how much. They had fourteen children t;o my knowing. After the war you could register under any name you give yourself. My father went by the name of Right Dixon and mother Jilly Dixon. "The Eu KLux was bad. They was a band of land owners what took the law in hand. I was a boy. I scared to be caught out. They took the place of pattyrollers before freedom. "I never went to public school but two days in my life. I went ,to night school and paid Mr. J. C. Price and Mr. S. H. Vick to teach me. My father got his leg shot off and I had to work. It kept me out of meanness. Work and that woman has kept me right. I come to Arkansas, brought my wife and one child, April 5, 1889. We come from Wilson, North Carolina. Her people come ftfom North Carolina and Moultrie, Georgia. "I do vote. I sell eggs or a little something and keep my taxes paid up. It look like I'm the kind of folks the government would help - them that works and tries hard to have something - but seems like they don't get no help. They wouldn't help me if I was bout to starve. I vote a Republican ticket.» NOTE: On the wall in the dining room, used as a sitting room, was a framed picture of Bjfooker T. Washington and Teddy Roose- velt sitting at a round-shaped hotel dining table ready to be 4. 160 served* Underneath the picture in large print was "Equality*w I didn't appear to ever see the picture* This negro is well-fixed for living at home* He is large and very black, but his wife is a light mulatto with curly, nearly straightened hair* 30 black- smith shop in snowy weather. I used to pick up literd^knots and pile them in piles along the road so they could take them to the house to burn. They made a good light and kindling wood. "They didn't whoop Qrandma but she whooped me a plenty. "After the war some white folka would tell Grandma one thing and some others tell her something else. She kept me and 5. 163 cooked right on. I didn't know what freedom was. Seemed like most of them I knowed didn't know what to do. Most of the slaves left the white folks where I was raised. It took a long time to ever get fixed. Some of them died, some went to the cities, some up Worth, some come to new country. I married and come to Predonia, Arkansas in 1889. I had been married since I was a young girl. But as I was saying the slaves was still hunting a better place and more freedom. The young folks is still hunting a better place and more freedom. Grandma learnt me to set down and be content. We have done better out here than we could done in North Carolina but I don't believe in so much rambling. MWe come on the passenger train and paid our own way to Arkansas. It was a wild and sickly country and has changed. Not like living in the same country. I try to live like the white folks and Grandma raised me. I do like they done, I think is the reason we have saved and have good a living as we got. We do on as little as we can and save a little for the rainy day.n 164 Interviewer Mrs* Bernlce Bowden Person interviewed_____________Railroad Dockarv__________ 1103 Short 13th, Pine Bluff, Arkansas -Age 81 "Railroad Dockery, that's my name* I belonged to John Dockery and we lived at Lamertlne, Arkansas where I was born. My mother* s name was Martha and I am one of quadruplets, three girls and one boy, that's me* Red River, Ouachita, Mississippi and Railroad were our names* (Mrs* Mary Browning, who is now ninety-eight years of age, told me that her father, John Dockery, was the president of the Mississippi, Red River, Ouachita Railroad, the first one to be surveyed in Arkansas, and that when the directors heard of the quadruplets* birth, they wanted to name them after the railroad, which was done — ed.) •Yes ma'm, Red River and Ouachita died when they were tots and Mississippi and Railroad were raised. Now that's what my mother said* Mississippi died five or six years ago and I'm the onliest one left, "I remember mighty little about the war# I never thought anything about the war. All I did then was a crfiwd of us little chaps would go to the woods and tote in the wood every day for the cook woman* That's what I followed* Never did nothing else but play till after the war. "After surrender I went with my father and mother to work for General Tom Dockery* He was John Dockery'a brother. I was big enough to plow then* I followed the plow all the time* My father and mother were paid for their work* We stayed there about five years and then moved to Falcon, Arkansas* Father died there* *• 165 •In the time of the war I heard the folks talk in* about freedom, and I heard my father talk about the Xu KLux but that was all I knowed, just what he said about it* •I remember the presidents and I voted for some of them but oh Lord, I haven't voted in several years* »I got along after freedom just as well as I ever did* I never had no trouble —* never been in no trouble* "About the world now — it looks like to me these days things are pretty tight* I could hardly tell you what I think of the younger genera- tion* I think one tiling — if the old heads mould die all at once they would be out, because it1 a all you can do to keep em straight now* •I went to school only three months in my life* I learned to read and write very well* Z donft need glasses and I read principally the Bible* To my mind it is the best book in the world* Biggest part of the preachers now won9t preach unless they are paid three-fourths more than they are worth* "The biggest part of my work was farming* I never did delight in cooking* How I can do any kind of housework, but don't put me to cooking* "I just can't sing to do no good* Never could sing* Seems like Aen I try to sing something gets tangled in my throat* "Oh Lord, I remember one old song they used to sing 9 A charge to keep I have A God to glorify*9 "I donft remember anything else but now if Mississippi was here, she could tell you lots of things*" 30^38 166 Interviewer Irene Robertson Subject_________________Ex-slave Information given by Callie Donalson, Biscoe, Arkansas_______________ Story- I wasn't born in slavery but I was born in the white folks kitchen. Bob Walker was ma motherfs Master and James Austin ma father's Master. They said he wasnft good to none of dem, he was mighty ti^ht. Now ma mothers white folks was sho good to her. When de war was all over me family jined and worked fer people not berry far from ma mother's masters. There was two brothers and a sister older than ne. She thou^at her white folks do better by her than anybody so she went back to em during her pregnancy and thats how ccme I was born in der kitchen a white mid-wife tended on er. I never will forget her. She was naned Mrs. Coffee. There wasn't many doctors in the whole country then. I was born in Haywood county Tennessee in 1866. No'm I tell you when you first come I wasn't born in slavery. My white mistress named me, the young mistress, she named me Callie. Bob Walkers girl married **en Geeter. I was right in Ben Geeters kitchen when Miss Sal lie named me. Thgy seeioed proud of the little black babies# Ma mother was a field hand and she washed and ironed. She was a good spinner. She carded and wave and spun all. Shef^iitted too. Sheiqjitted mostly by nite. All the stockings and gloves had to be^hit. She stored and I learned from her. We had to sew with our fingers. / Jhen I was a little girl I just set around, brought in wood. Yes maam we did play and I had some dolls, I was proud of my dolls, just rag dolls. \ie use to drive the calves up. If they didnft cane up they sent the dog fur de cows. One of dem wore a bell# 167 -2- They had shepherd dogs, long haired, gentle dogs, to fetch the cows when they didnft come. Ma folks farmed in Tennessee till I married and den we f aimed. Agents jess kept comin after us to gpt us to come to this rich country* They say: hogs jess walking round with knife arid forks stickin in der backs beggin somebody to eat em over in Arkansas* Nofm I aint seed none lack dat, I seed em down in the swamps what you could saw a go d size saplin doun wid der backbones* I says I mean I seed plenty raysor back hogs, and long noses and long straight ears. I show have since I come here. The land was so poor in Tennessee and this was uncleared land so we come to a new country. It show is rich land. They use guano back in Tennessee now or they couldnft r4(ase nuthin. Abe Miller an old slave owner what we worked wid come out here. He was broke and he paid our way. we come on the Josie Harry boat. Der was several families sides us come wid him. He done fine out here- we got off the boat at Augusta and I worked up there in Woodruff county till ma husbands brotherfs wife died and he had a farm his own. We raised his boys and our faraily till dey was ob age. I left em. They went in big business here in Biscoe and lost de farm and everything* Ma husband died I lives with ma girl* I got one boy married lives in Chicago, and a girl up there too* Nof/ This paper falls to record Fannie Dorum9 s accent with any approach to accuracy* She speaks fairly accurately and clearly and with a good deal of attention to grammatlealness* But she, pronounces all "er* ending as "uh*; e* g., nigguh, cullud, fathuh, mothuh, mostuh, daughtuha* There are a number of variations from correct pronunciation which I do not record because they do not constitute a variation from the normal pronunciation; e* g«,*mus" for "ma**, *er* for *er*# The slave pronunciation of *moster* is more nearly correct than the normal pronunciation of *a&ter«* Frequent pronunciations are maree* maraa, rn&sa, mVstuh, and massa* 30776 185 \j K i _*. %.J Interviewer Pernalla M, Anderson Person interviewed Sarah Douglas Route 2, Box 19iA, SI Dorado, Arkansas" Age 82? 189 "1 was born in Alabama* I donft know when though* I did not find out when I was born because old miss never told me* My ma died when I was real small and my old miss raised me* I had a hard time of my life* I slept on the floor just like a cat—anywhere I laid down I slept * In winter I slept on rags* If I got sick old miss would give me plenty of medicine because she wanted me to stay well in order to work* My old master was name John Buffett and old misses name was Eddie Buffett* She would fix my bread and licker in a tin lid and shove it to me on the floor* I never ate at the table until I was twelve and that was after freedom* "To whip me she put my head between the two fence rails and she taken the cow hide whip and beat me until I couldnft sit down for a week* Some- times she tied our hands around a tree and tie our neck to the tree with our face to the tree and they would get behind us with that cow hide whip with a piece of lead tied to the end and lord have mercy! child, I shouted when I wasnft happy* All I could say was, f0h pray, mistress, pray*1 That was our way to say Lord have mercy* The last whipping old miss give me she tied me to a tree and oh my Lord! old miss whipped me that day. That was the worse whipping I ever got in my life* I cried and bucked and hollered until I couldnft* I give up for dead and she wouldn't stop* I stop crying and said to her, f01d miss, if I were you and you were me I wouldn't beat you this way*f 2* That struck old mlssY8 heart and she let me go and she did not have the heart to beat me any more* "I did every kind of work ulien I was a little slave; split rails, sprouted| ditched, plowed, chopped, and picked and planted* *I remember young master going to war and I remember hearing the first gun shoot but I did not see it# I saw the smoke though* "I never went to school a day in my life* The white folks said we did not need to learn, if we needed to learn anything they could learn us with that cow hide whip* "We went to the white folks9 church, so we sit in the back on the floor* They allowed us to join their church Whenever one got ready to join or felt that the Lord had forgiven them of their sins* We told our determination; this is what we said: 'I feel that the Lord have forgiven me for my sins* I have prayed and I feel that I am a better girl* I belong to master so and so and I am so old** The white preacher would then ask our miss and master what they thought about it and if they could see any change• They would get up and say: 9I notice she donvt steal and I notice she don*t lie as much and I notice she works better*f Then they let us join* We served our mistress and master in slavery time and not Qod* •I recollect miss died just after the War* Old miss was very strict on us and after she died we was so glad we had a big dance in miss's kitchen and old miss came back and slapped one of the slaves and left the print of her hand on her face* That white hand never did go away and that place was for- ever haunted after that* •Now I donft know how to tell you to get after my age but I was twelve years old two years after surrender*19 190 30304 191 Interviewer Carol Graham Subject _________Ex-slaves Information given by______Sarah Douglas, El Dorado, Arkansas Mornin* honey. I thought you wuz comin1 back tuh see me ergin las1 summer an1 I looked fuh you the longes* time. Pse r>lum proud tuh see you ergin. Dis other lady ainft de one that wuz wid you lasf summer is she? Now jes lis'en tuh that will yuh, she wants Aunt Sarah tuh tell huh some more fbout slavefy times. John Bufford wuz mah marsterfs name. I wuz bofn in Alabama anf brought to Louisiana by my marsterfs fambly. Aftuh de wah he freed us an1 some of fem mixed up in politics an1 the white folks from the North fooled fam into makin speeches fuh 'em, but dey soon learnt bettuh. I ainft been well lately. The doctuh said I had slamatory rheumatis. Ifm olf now end donf have nobody tuh do nothin fuh me. My mistress wuz mammy in de olf days. Aftuh I got up fum mah rheumatism I went down tuh that church you sees, I give de lanf fuh hit, me and Tom did and I jes felt good and wanted tuh praise the Lord. I wuz so glad the sperit come once more, I got happy and I got up and went down tuh de fron? and said; "I want to shake hand wid everf body in dis house. I wanna stroke yo hand. An1 I stood down there at the front so happy an1 duh yuh know one little chile and two women come down an1 shook hands wid mef I jes didn't know whut tuh think. Yoh know when I wuz young and a body got happy evuh body did an* dey made a noise but not so now. - 2 - 192 An1 tuh think dey couldn't turn praises* You say yo' wants tuh talk tuh Tom? Well he's out dar in de back yard but he aint well and I specks he won't talk tuh but if you mus' come on. Tom here is a lady wants tuh talk tuh you. I'll go back an talk tuh de lady whuts waitin' in de car. (The above written just as Sarah Douglas expressed it). (Taken down word for word.) (August 11, 1937.) 30016 Interviewer Peraella M. Anderson Person interviewed Ten Dooglaa Route 2, Box 19-A, SI Dorado, Arkansas lee 91 193 "I was born in Marion, Louisiana September 15, 1847 at 8 of clock in the morning. I was eighteen years of age at surrender * My master and missus was B* B* Thomas and Miss Susan Thomas, Old master had a gang of slaves and we all worked like we were putting out fire* Lord child, wasnvt near like it is now* We went to bed early and got up early. There was a gsng of plow hands, hoe hands, hands to clear new ground, a bunch of cooks, a washwoman* We worked too and didn't mind it* If we acted like we didnft want to work, our hands wets crossed and tied and we was tied to a tree or bush and whipped until we bled* They had a whipping post that they tied us to to whip us* "We was sold just like hogs and cows and stock is sold today* They built nigger pens like you see cow pens and hog pens* They drove niggers in there by the hundred and auctioned them off to the highest bidder* The white folks kept up with our age so when they got ready to sell us they could tell how old we were* They had a fpenetenturef for the white folks when they did wrong* When we done wrong we was tied to that whipping post and our hide busted open with that cow hide* "We stayed out in the field in a log house and old master would allowance our week's rations out to us and Sunday morning we got one bis- cuit each* If our week's allowance give out before the week we did not get any more* 2* 194 *Gooked on fireplaces, wasn't no stoves# le did not have to worry about our clothes* Old missus looked after everything* We wore brogaa shoes and homespun clothes* There was a bunch of women that did the spinning and weaving just like these sewing room women are now* I was a shoe maker* I made all the shoes during the time we wasn't farming* We had to go nice and clean* If old missus caught us dirty our hide was busted* I got slavery time scars on my back now* You ought to see wy back* Scars been on my back for seventy^five years* *I never went to school a day in my life* I learned my ABC'S after I was nineteen years old* I went to night school, then to a teacher by the name of Nelse Otom* I was the first nigger to join the church on this side of the Mason and Dixie line* During slavery we all joined the white folk's c>urch set in the back* After slavery in 1866 they met in con* ference and motioned to turn all of the black sheep out then* There was four or five they turned out here and four or five there, so we called our preacher and I was the first one to join* 014 master asked our preacher what we paid him to preach to us* We told him old shoes and clothes* Old master says, 'Well, that's damn poor pay*' Our preacher says, 'And they got a damn poor preacher*1 "I did not know anything about war* Only I know it began in 1861, closed in 1865, and I know they fought at Vicksburg* That was two or three hundred miles from us but we could not keep our dishes upon the table whenever they shot a bomb* Those bombs would jar the house so hard and we could see the smoke that far* "We was allowed to visit Saturday night and Sunday* If you had a wife you could go to see her Wednesday night and Saturday night and stay with her 3* until Monday morning and if you were caught away any other time the patrollers would catoh you* That is where the song come from* 'Run nigger run, don't the patarolls will catch you«f Sometimes a nigger would run off and the nigger dogs would track them* In slavery white folks put you together* Just tell you to go on and go to bed with her or him* You had to stay with them whether you wanted them or not* •After freedom old master called aH us slaves and told us we was free, opened a big gate and drove us all out* We didn't know what to do—not a penny, nowhere to go—so we went out there and set down* In about thirty minutes master came back and told us if we wanted to finish the crop for food and clothes we could, so we all went back and finished the crop and the next year they gave us half* So ever1 since then we people been work- ing for half* *Here is one of my boy songsi 195 'Sadday night and Sunday too* A pretty girl on my mind As soon as Monday mos&ing come The white folks get me gwi-ng*f tt 80669 196 f */&+>*& &*L *7 $&«***]] OID SLAVE STORIES V Ah wuz baptized de second year of surrender« Wuz twelve years ole at de time an my mistress spoke fuh me when ah jfined de church* In them days when chillun J'ined de church some grown person had ter speak fuh em an tell if they thought they wuz converted or not. Wow when chillun jfin de church if they is big enough ter talk they take em in widout grown fokes speaking fuh em a tall* Slavery times wuz she good times* We wuz fed an clothed an had nothin to worry about* Bfow'poar ole niggers go hungry* Sho we wuz whipped in slavery times* Hah ole man has stripes on his back now wha he wuz whipped an ah wuz whipped too but hit hoped me up till now, Coase hit did* Hit keeps me fum goin aroun here tellin lies an stealln yo chickens* Me an mah ole man is been carried sixty-six years an have nevah had no chillun. Yo know little chillun is de sweetest thing in the worl1 • Now if we had chillun we would have someone tuh take ears of us in our ole days* Hah ole man, Tom, is 89 an I98e 82 ? Poar ole man* Ah does all ah kin fuh him but Ifse ole too* These young niggers is gettin so uppity. They think they is better than we is* A Darkey Jea donf love one another an stick tf gether like white fokes .does* 197 But ah is goin ter stick ter my ole man* He needs me* He is jes like a little helpless chile widout me ter look after him* Ah used to be mighty frisky an mighty proud when ah wuz young but ah wazn1 as good then as ah is now* Ah likes ter go ter church* See that little white church over de hill? That is Douglas Chapel* a Baptist church* Me an mah ole man give de lanf fuh that church. We hed plenty them days when Douglas was laid out (meaning Douglas Addition). But now poar ole niggers donf have enough ter eat all de time* None of them church members is missionary enough ter bring us somethln* ter eat* White fofees have good hearts but niggers is grudgeful* De bigges thing among white fokes is they do lie sometime an when they do they kin best a nigger all to pieces* diggers donf have as much fligion as they use ter* Ah went to a missionary meeting at one sister1 s house an she said ter me: "Sister Douglas, start us off wid a song1 an ah started off with "Amazing Grace?" Sang bout half of de first verse an noticed none of them jfined in but ah kepf right on singin1 an wuz gettin full of de sperit when that sister spoke up an said: "Sister Douglas* donf yo know that is done gone out of style?" an selected "Fly Away" an den all of them sisters jfined in an sung "Ply away, fly away" an hit sounded jes like a dance chune# Yas'm, that is our ole buggy standin aroun de corner of de house* We use ter ride in hit till hit got so rickety* An that ole horse is our fambly horse* Dolly Jane ah calls her* 198 Hefve had her forty years an she gits sick sometime jes like ah does an ah thinks sho she is gone this time but she gits oveh hit jes like ah does when ah has a spell* We has lived in this house since 1900 but we is goin ovah an de utha side of de tradks soon wid the res of de niggers, Kbbody lef on this side but white fokes now ceptin us. Ihem de railroad come through down there ah had a cotton patch growin there an ah cried cause hit went through mah cotton patch an ruint part of hit* All we got outvn hit wuz damages* Rofmt mah ole man oaint talk ter yo all terday; he is sick* Mebby ifh yo all come hack he kin talk ter yo then* (In the meantime we investigated Ham and Sarah Douglas and found that he has a bank account and at one time owned all the land that is now Douglas Addition* In a few days we went back and found Tom sitting on the porch*) Hade Tom Douglas mm Yas*m9 ah members da wah* Ah wuz fo'teen when de wah began an eighteen when hit closed* Ifeh marster wuz B. B. Thomas, Union Parish, Louisiana, near Marion* Louisiana* Ah saw de fust soldiers go an saw young marster go* When young marster come back at de close of de w&h he brought back a big piece of mule meat ter show us niggers what he done have ter eat while he wuz in de army* Ah nevah wuz sold but lots of marsterf a slaves wuz sold* They wuz sold jes like stock* Ah members one fambly. De man wuz a blacksmithf de woman a cook, an one of their chillun wuz 199 waitin boy* They wuzr put on de block an sold an a diffunt man bought each one an they went ter diffunt part of de country ter live an nevah did see one nother no moah* They wuz sole jes like cows an horses* Nofm, ah didnft like slavery days* Ahfd rather be free an hungry, (Tom is the only ex-slave who has told us that he had rather be free and we believe that is because he has a bank account and is independent*) Yo say tell yo about hants* There is such a thing* Yes mam* Some fokes calls it fogyness but hit sho is true fuh me an Sarah has seed em haint we Sarah» Here young missy, what ia yo doin wld that pencil? (After we had put up our notebooks and pencils and assured them that we wDuld not repeat it, they told us the following): When me an Sarah lived out at de Moore place about three miles east on the main street road we seed plenty of haints* De graveyard wuz in sight of our house an we could see them sperits cane up out de groun an they would go past de . house down in a grove an we could see them there campin* We could see they eampfirea* We could hear their dishes rattling an their tincups an knives an forks* An hear em talkin* Den again they would be diggin with shovels* Sometimes in de grave- yard we could see de sperits doin de things they did befo they died* Some would be plowing, some blackamithing an each one doin what he had done while he wuz livln* When day wuz breakin they 200 would go runnin crost our ymrd an git back in de graves* Yesfm# we seed em as long as we lived there» After we moved from ther somebody dug up some gold that wuz buried at de corner of de chimney• , An hit is said that from that day hants have not been seen there* Yes*!*, there is no doubt erbout hit* They is such thinfs - as hants • Ue an Sarah has both seed em but we aint seed any in a long time* °0303 20i o Interviewer______ Mrs. Carol Graham Person interviewed Tom fc Sarah Pbuglaa Resident______________81 Dorado, Arkansas___________Age 90 and 83* NOTE:- This is a second interview with Uncle Test and Aunt Sarah Douglas* The first was sent to your office in September 1936 from interview by Mrs. Mildred Thompson» II Dorado, Arkansas* Ifrs* Thompson is not now with the Project* Mrs. Carol Graham made the second interview* Tom Douglas - lbc-slavs» I was a slave boy till Z was eighteen* las born in 1847*. 'mancipated in *65* No* my master did notdlve me forty acres of land and a mule* When we was fmancipated my master came took us outside the gate across the road and told us we was freed* Tou are free to work for anybody you want to** Te set t**ere a w**ile then we want whare olf sister was and he tol' us if wa wanted to stay wid him and finish the crop he would provide our victuals and clothes* The next year we worked for him on t**e halves* and continued to do so for four or five years* 'F we didn' eat an* wear it up he would give us the balance in money an we of'en had as much as fifty dollars when the year was over* My ol* master was $*B« Thomas* The young master was Bnmett Thomas* Mr* ftanett was his son* Day was near Marion • Louisiana* Then I worked fuh *»is brotver-in-law 'Lias George* Mis wifs was Susen George* I tell you the fact, these times is much bettuh than slave times* If I'm hungry an* naked* I'm free* I'm erasy 'bout liberty* I've heard of the Ku Klux KLan but never did see none of 'em* Mave seen where they is been but nevuh did sea 'am* Va voted several years* lbs considered citizens- voted an' all that sort of t*iing, I tMnk if wo pay taxes wo ought to rote for pay in' taxes nakes us citizens don* itt I used tote a big polities man- lost all I fcad -2- 202 house* forty acres* a good well an* stock an* erer*thing* I was tol* one day that the Ku Xluxes was comin* to ny house that night an* X got on my horse at sundown an left an aint nevuh been back* I was a big politics nan then- lost all I had and quit politics* Ifm ninety years old and fifteenth of next September* Looks liks the old might get pensions if old has anything to do with it I ought to get a pension but us ol* folks that is gettin* long an has a place to stay an* somethin* to eat they say don* get none* I come to SI Dorado January 3* I893* This place was in the woods then* I bought 120 acres from Br» Dave Armstrong at five dollars per acre and in nine years I had it all paid for. It was after I got tired of workin* on the halves that I bought me a place* Worked at a sawmill four years beginnin in 1897 or 98* Then I jobbed aroun* town three years doin* this an* tfcat an* the other* Carried $25 *ith me when I moved to town and brought #28* back with me* Cleared $1* a year an* gpt tired of t*>st* Am livin* off my land* Have sol* some an* am sellin some now but times is hard and folks can*t pay* I takes in from $18* to $25* per month* Tbe young folks is gone to destruction* Aint notfcin* but destruction* You is young your self but you can tell times aint the same as t^ey was ten years back* Young folks is go in* to destruction* Me* Ifm goimf home* GoiA* back 80 years an comin* up to day I is seen a mighty big change* Me*Ifm go in* home* Bon*t know What you young folks going to see eighty years from now* Everybody is trying to get something for nothing* We use to sing "Gimme this Old Time Religion* It*s Stood enough for me* An* me sung *I*m a Soldier of the Cross1* an lots of others* lb don* live right now, don* serve God* Pride, fons^Jfty an love of money keeps folks from worshipping an* away from the ol* time religion* You know that ol* say in: 203 "Preacher in the pulpit preachin* mighty bold} All for your money anf none for your soul** Seems like its true now days* Tou ask does I have stripes on my back from bein beat in slave fy timest Ho maam* I was always a good boy and smart boy raised in the same yard with the little White Chilian* Ton says Sarah told you that las' year? Kissy you mus* be mistaken* I was Whipped once or twice but I needed it then or ol* master wouldn't a Whipped me an he never did leave no stripes on me* Hy old maste was good to all his niggers and I'm tellin you I was raised up with his chullun am him and old mistress was good to me* All me little black chillum et out of the boilia' pet an every Sunday mornin* we had hot biscuit and butter for breakfact* Mo maam my old master was always good to his niggers* (Above is as exactly told by Tern Douglas with the exception that *>e used the word Iterator, for master; wu* for was, tuh for toj ah for I and other quaint expressions- these were omitted because of instruction in Bulletin received August 7th» 1937•) Tfcken down word for word. August 11* 1937* 30817 204 Interviewer Mrs* Bemioe Bowden Person interviewed Sebert Douglas 610 Catalpa Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 88 *I was born in Lebanonf Kentucky* Gover Hood was my old master* His wifeYs name was Ann Hood* "I * member Morganfs Raid* I donft 'member what year it was but I fmember a right smart about it* Cumberland Gap was where they met* "The Rebs and Yankees both come and took things from old master* I 'member three horses they taken well* Yankees had tents in the yard* They was right in the yard right in front of 1dhe Methodist church* •My mother was Mrs* Hood's slave, and when she married she took my mother along and X was born on her place* "I was the carriage boy in slave times* My father did the driving and I was the waitin1 boy* I opened the gates* "I fmember Billy Chandler and Lewis Rodman run off and jfined the Yankees but they come back after the War was over* "Paddyrollers was about the same as the Eu ELux* The Xu KLux would take the roof off the colored folks1 houses and take their bedding and make 'am go back where they come from* *We stayed right there with old master for two or three years, then we went to the country and farmed for ourselves* "I went to school just long enough to read and write* I never seed no use for figgers till I married and went to farmin1* "Since I been in Fine Bluff I done mill work* I was a sash and door man* 2. 205 *I used to vote every election till Hoover, but I never held any office* "Che younger generation ia bad medicine? Canft tell what1 a gwlne come of femln 206 fs Interviewer Mlaa Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Henry Doyl, Brlnkley. Arkansas Age W1U be 74 Feb. Sf 1938 *I was born In Hardeman County near Bolivar, Tennessee* My mother9 a moster was Bryant Cox and his wife was Miss Neely Cox* My mother was Billy Cox. Two things I remembers tlnotly that took place in my childhood: that was when my mother married George Doyl* I was raised by a stepfather* Miss Neely told my mother she was going to sell me and put me in her pocket* She told her that more'n one tins* I recollect that* "My oldest brother, one older en me* burned to death* My mother was a field lxand* She was at work in the field* When she come to the house* the cabin burned up and the baby burned up too* That grieved her migity bad and when Miss Neely tell her soon as I got big nough she was goner sell me ioighty near break her heart* \/ftThe first year after the surrender my father, Buck Bogers, left my mother in her bad condition* She said she followed him crying and begging him not to leave her to Montgomery Bridge, in Alabama. The last she seen him he was on Montgomery Bridgs* "They just expected freedom* My mother left her mistress and moved to the Ooyl place* She didn't get nothing but her few clothes* I was born at the Doyl place* She worked for Moster Bob Doyl, a young man* They share cropped* We had a plenty I reckon of what we raised and a little money* z. " I worked on Colonel Nuckles place when I got up grown. I worked on the lunatic Asylum at Bolivar and loaded tires and ditched for the I. C. Railroad a long tirade "I don't recollect that the Kii Klux ever bothered us. "My stepfather voted Republican ticket. I haven't voted for a good many years — not since Garfield or McKinley was our President. "I come to Arkansas in 1887. I married in Arkansas. I heard that Arkansas was a rich country. My mother was dead. My stepfather had been out here. I come on the train, paid my own way. Come to Palestine the first night then on to Brinkley. I been close to Brinkley ever since. "The old man died what learned me how to walk rice levies. I still work on the place. Everybody don't know how to walk levies. It will kill an old man. Your feet stay wet and cold all time. I do wear hip boots but my feet stay cold and damp. I got down with the rheumatism and jes' now got so I can walk. "I got a wife and three living children. $hey all married and gone. "Times is hard for old folks and changed so much. Children used to get jobs and take care of the granny folks and the old parents. They can't take care of themselves ao more it look like. I don't know how to take the young generation. They are drifting along with the fast times. "I applied but don't get no pension." 201 30563 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson____________ Person interviewed Willie Doyld (male), Brinkley, Arkansas 208 4& A& 78 *$? "I was born in Grenada, Mississippi* My parents belong to the same family of white folks* My moster was Jim Doyld* His wife was Mistress Karoline Doyld. Well as I recollect they had foar childen* My parent9s name was Hannah and William Doyld* IYm named for em* They was three of us childen* They belong to same family of white folks for a fact* I heard em say Moster Jim bought em off en the block at the same time* He got em at Galveston, Texas* He kept five families jot slaves on his place well as I recollect* "My pa was Moster Jim9s ox driver* He drove five or six yokes at a time* He walk long side of em, wagons loaded up* He toted a long cowhide whoop. He toted it over his shoulder• When hefd crack it you could hear his whoop half a mile* Knowed he was cominf on up to the house* Them oxen would step long, peart in up when he crack his whoop over em. Eefd be haulin* logs, wood, cotton, corn, taters, sorghum cane and stuff* He nearly always walked long side of em; sometimes he'd crawl upon the front wagon an9 ride a piece* "He was a very good moster I recken far as I knows* They go up there, get sompin9 to eat* He give em a midlin9 meat* He give us clothes* Folks wore heep of clothes then* They got whoopin9s if they not do lack they tole em to do — plenty whoopin9sJ He kept ten dogs, they call bear dogs* 2. 209 They hunt fox, wolves, deer, bear, birds* Them dogs died wid black tongue* Every one of em died© "We et at home mostly* We was lounced wid the rations but had a big plenty. We got the rations every Saturday mom in*. One fellow cut and weighed out the meat, sacked out the meal in pans what they take to git it in* Sometimes we et up at the house* Mama bring a big bucket milk and set it down, give us a tin cup. We eat it up lack pigs lappin1 up slop* Mama cooked for old mistress. She bring us fnough cooked up grub to last us two or three days at er time* Papa could cook when he be round the house too* I recollect all four my grandmas and grandpas* They come from Georgia* Moster Jim muster bought them too but I don't know if he got em all at the same time down at Galveston, Texas* "Moster Jim show did drink liquor ~ whiskey* I recken he would* When he got drunk old missus have him on the bed an1 she set by him till he sober up* Miss Karoline good as ever drawed a breath to colored and white* "My grandma, mother's ma, was a ligit sorter woman* The balance of my kin was pure nigger* "I kin for a fact recollect a right aaart about the war* Papa went off to war wid Jack Hoskins* He was goinf to be his waitin1 man* He stayed a good while fore he got home* Jack Hoskins got kilt fore he et breakfast one morninf* That all I heard him say* I recken he helped bury him but I never heard em say* *The plainest thing I recollect was a big drove of the Yankee soldiers — some ridin1, some walkinf — come up to the moster1 s house* He was sorter old man* He was set tin1 in the gallery* He lived in a big log house* He was re ad inf the paper. He throwed back his head and was dead* Jes1 scared to deathi 3* Shay said that was what tha matter* In spits of that thay coma down thara and ordered us up to the house* All tha niggara scared to death not to go* There lay old Mostar Jim stratchad dead in his chair* fhey was backad up to tha smoke house door and tha horses makin9 splinters of the door* It was three planks thick, crossed one another and braddad together wid iron nails* They throwed the stuff out an9 say, 'Come anf git it* Take it to your houses*f Thay took it* It was ours and we didn9t want it wasted* Soon as thay gona thay got mighty busy bringing it back* Thay built nothar door an1 put it up* Old Miss Carolina bout somewhere a, scared purty near to death* They buried Mostar Jim at Watar Valley, Mississippi* Miss Earolins broka up and want back to Virginia* My grandma got her feather bed and died on it* Bout two years after that the Yankees sot fire to the house and burned it down* We all had gpod log houses down close together* They didnfft bother us* *I donft recollect the Ku Klux* 11 Our folks never knowed when freedom come on* Some didn't believe they was free at all* They went on farmin9 wid what left* What they made thay got it* My folks purty nigh all died right there* "I lives alone* I got two childern in Lulu, Mississippi* I had three childem* My wife come here wid me* She dead* "I had forty acres land, two mules, wagon* It went for debts* White folks got it* I ain9t made nuthin9 since* "I ain9t no hand at votin9 much* I railly never understood nuthin9 bout the run of polities* "I hates to say it but the young generation won9t work if they can get by wldout it* They take it, if they can, outen the old folks* I used to didn't ask folks no dlffrunce* I worked rigit long* 2X0 *• 211 *I gets oooDodities wid this old woman* Z come here to build her fires and see after er* Z don't git no check** 30499 2i2 Interviewer______Miss Irene Robertson_____ Person interviewed Wade Dudleya Moro« Ark. Age 75 "Bill Kidd and Miss Hancy Kidd owned my parents. I was born close to Okalona, Chickasha County, Mississippi, about the last year of the Civil War* Mr. Bill was Miss Nancy's boy. He was a nigger trader. They said the overseers treated em pretty rough. They made em work in nearly a run. When Miss Hancy was living they was rich but after she died he got down pretty low. He married. Course I knowd em. I been through his house. He had a fine house. My mother said she was born in Virginia. She belong to Addison and Duley. Her mother come wid her. t They sold them but didn't sell her father so she never seed him no moref She walked or come in a ox wagon part of the way. She was with a drove. My father come from North Carolina. His father was free. My father weighed out rations. He was bright color. He worked round the house and then durin* the war he run a refugee wagon. The Yankees got men, mules, / / meat from Mr. Bill Kidd. My father he was hiding em and hiding the provisions from one place to another to keep the Yankees from starving em all to death. My mother had nine boys. They all belong to Mr. Miller. He died, his widow married Mr. Owen then Mr. Owen sold them to Mrs. Kidd. That was where they was freed. My parents stayed about Mrs. Kidd's till she died. They / worked for a third some of the time, I don't know how long. 2. 213 When I was a boy size of that yonder biggest boy my folks was still thinking the government was going to give em something. I was ten years old when they left Mrs. Kidd's. They thought the government was going to give em 40 acres and a mule or some kind of a start. I don't know where they got the notion. My father voted down in Mississippi. I vote. I was working in the car shops in St. Louis in 1923. Me and my wife both voted then. I worked there two years. I come back to Arkan- sas where I could farm. The land was better here than in Miss- issippi. I walked part of the way and rode part of the way when I come here from Mississippi. I vote a Republican ticket. Bout all I owns is two little pigs and a few chickens. I did have a spring garden. We work in the field and make a little to eat and wear. 'I find the present times is hard for old folks. Some young folks is doing well I guess. They look like it. I made application twice for help but I ain't never got on. I don't know what to think bout the young folks. If they can get a living they have a good time. They don't worry bout the future. A little money don't buy nothin' much now. It seem like every- thing is to buy. Money is hard to get." 30697 Interviewer Hiss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Isabella Dote Little Bock, Arkansas (towards Benton) Ago 68 Visiting in Bazen 1?4$*?„ 'Jit??- 4>J*c*t&fJ- "My own dear mother was born at Faithville, Alabama* She belong to Sam Norse* His wife was Mistress Mai Jane* They moved to Little Bock years after my mother had come there* After seberal months they got trace of one another* I seed two of the Norse girls and a boy* Master Norse was a farmer in Alabama* Mother said he had plenty hands in slavery. She was a field hand* She had a tough time during slavery* •Pa said he had a good time* *Bout all he ever done was put on old mistress* shoes and pull her chair about for her to sit in* He built and chunked up the fires* Old mistress raised him and he had to wear a bonnet* He was real light. He said the worse whoopings he ever got was when he would be out riding stick horses with his bonnet on. The hands on the place would catch him and whoop him and say, 'Old mis' thinks he's white sure as de worl*.* The hands on the place sent him to the big house squalling many a time. "After he got grown he could be took for a white man easy* He was part French* He talked Frenchy and acted Frenchy. Every one who knowd him in Little Bock called him Pa Frazier and called my mother Ma Frazier, but she was dark. Pa said he et out his mistress' plate more times than he didn't* She raised him about like her own boy. "Mother had a hard time* Alex Horse bought my mother and a small brother from some people leaving her own dear mother when she was fifteen years old* 214 2* 215 Her mother kept the baby and the little boy took sick and died* But there had been an older boy sold to some folks near Norse1 a place before she was sold* The brother that was two years old died* There were other older children sold* Vty mother never saw her mother after she was sold* She heard from her mother in 1910* She was then one hundred and one years old and could thread her needles to piece quilts* Her baby boy six months old when mother was sold come to visit us* Mother wanted to go back to see her but never was able to get the money ready* Mother had good sight when she died in 1920* She was eighty-seven years old and didnft have to wear glasses to see* Mother1 s father was on another place* He was said to be part or all Indian* "Mother said once a cloth peddler come through the country* Her older brother John lived on a place close to the Norse place* John told the peddler that ma took the piece of goods he missed* But John was the one got the goods mind out* The peddler reported it to Master Norse* He give my mother a terrible beating* After that it come out on John* He had stole the piece of cloth* John then took sick, lay sick a long time* Master Norse wouldnft let her go nigh John* She knowd when he died and the day he was to be buried* Master Norse wouldn't let her go nigh there, not even look like she wanted to cry* "Mother married before freedom, jumped the broom she said* Then after freedom she married my father* My parents named Clara and George Frazier* She had twelve children* Fa was a cripple man* He was a soldier* He said he never was shot and never shot no one* He was on a horse and going this way (reeling from side to side dodging the shooting) all time* A horse throwed him and hurt his hip in the army* After that he limped* He drew a pension* I limps but Ivm better as I got grown* Ifm marked after him* s. 216 One of my children I named after him what died was cripple like him* lly little George died when he was ten# He was marked at birth after his grandpa* I had ten, jus9 got five living children* •My husband9 s father9 s father was in the Civil War* He didnft want to go out on battle-field, so in the camps he cut his eyeball with his finger- nail so he could get to go to the horaepital* His eye went out* He hurt it too near the sight* He said he was sorry the rest of his life he done that* He got a pension too* He was blind and always was sorry for his disobedience* He said he was scared so bad he 9bout leave die then as go into the battle- field* "In some ways times is better* People are no better* Children jus9 growing up wild* Their education is of the head and not their heart and hands* ' "I was raised around Little Rock is about right* I gets a pension* I'm sixty-two years old but I was down sick with nerve trouble several years* I9m better now* I9ve been gradually coming on up for over a year now. "Mr* Ernest Harper of Little Bock takes out truckloads of black folks to work on his place in the country every day* They can get work that way if they can work*99 ^y 217 Interviewer Bernice Bowden Person interviewed "Wash"Dukes 2217 E, Barraque Age 85 Pine Bluff, Ark, "Yes'm, Wash Dukes is my name. My mother liked Washing- ton so well, she named me General Washington Dukes, but I said my name was Wash Dukes, I'm the oldest one and I'm still here. Me? I was born in the state of Georgia, Hows on County. Perry, Georgia was my closest place. I was born and raised on the Rig- gins place. I was born in 1855, you understand. The first day of March is my birthday. We had it on the Bible, four boys and four girls, and I was the oldest. House caught fire and burned up the Bible, but I always say I'm as old as a hoss, "I can't see as good as I used to - gettin' too old, I reckon, "Old master and mistis was good to us, "My mother plowed just like a man. Had a little black mule named Mollie and wore these big old leggins come up to her knee, "Old master was a long tall man with black hair, "You know I was here cause I remember when Lincoln was elected president. He run against George Washington, "I seen the Yankees but I never talked to em. I was scared of em. Had them muskets with a spear on the end. They give my uncle a hoss. When it thundered and lightninged that 2. Q, old hoss started to dance - thought twas a battle. And when he come to a fence, just jump right over with me on him. I say, 'Where you get that hoss?' and uncle say, 'Yankees give him to me.' "I know one time they was a fellow come by there walkin*'. I guess they shot his hoss. He had plenty money. I tried to get him to give me some but he wouldn't give me a bit. "At Oglethorpe they had a place where they kep the pris- oners. They was a little stream run through it and the Rebels pizened it and killed a lot of em. "I was so crazy when I was young. I know one time mama sent me to town to get a dress pattern - ten yards. She say, 'Now, (Wash, when you go across that bottom, you'll hear somethin' sounds like somebody dyin', but you just go on, it won't hurt you.' But I say, 'I won't hear it.' I went through there so fast and come back, mama say, 'You done been to town already?' I said, 'Yes, here's your dress pattern.' I went through there ninety to no thin'. I went so fast my heart hurt me. MIn slave times I remember if you wanted to go to another plantation you had to have a pass. Paddyrollers nearly got me one night. I was on a hoss. They was shoo tin' at me. I know the hoss was just stretched out and I was layin' right down on his neck. "I stayed in Georgia till '74. I heared em say the cot- ton grow so big here in Arkansas you could sit on a limb and eat dinner. I know when I got here they was havin' that Brooks- Baxter war in Little Rock. I say, 'Press me into the war.' Man s. 219 say, fI ain't goin' press no boys,' I say, 'Give me a gun, I can kill em,* I wanted to fight, "I tell you where I voted - colored folks don't vote now - it was when I was on the Davis place, I voted once or twice since I been up here, I called myself votin' Republican, I member since I been up here you know they had a colored man in the courthouse. When they had a grand jury they had em mixed, some colored and some white, I say now they ain't got no privi- lege. If they don't want em to vote ought not make em pay taxes, "TJp north they all sits together in the deppo but here in the south they got a 'tition between em. "When I first went to farmin' I rented the land and the cotton,was all mine, but now you work on the shares and don't have no thin*, "If I keep a livin', I'm goin' away from here. I'm goin' up north, I won't go fore it gets warm though, I seen the snow knee deep in Cleveland, Ohio, "I was workin' up north once, I had a pretty good job in Detroit doin' piece work, and doin' well, but I come back here cause my wife's mother was too old to move. If I had stayed I might have done well, "I own this property but I'm bout to lose it on account o' taxes, "I got grown boys and they ain't no more help to me than the spit out o' my mouth. None of em has ever give me a dime in their life, Thi3 younger generation is goin' to nothin'. They got a good education. I got a boy can write six different kinds 4* 220 a hands. Write enough to get in the pen. I got him pardoned and he's in Philadelphia now. Never sends me a dime. "I never went to any school but night school a little. I was the oldest and it kep me knockin' around to help take care of the little ones. "I preach sometimes. I'm not ordained - I'm a floor preacher, just stands in front of the altar.M 80393 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Lizzie Puna* Clarendon* Arkansas Age 88 #680 2^1 "I was born close to Hernando, Mississippi* Ify parents was Cassia Gillahm and Sly Gillahm* Ify master was John Gillahm* I fell to John Gillahm and Tim bought me from him so I could be with my mother* I was a young baby* Bill Gillahm was our old master* He might had a big farm but I was raised on a small farm* White folks raised me* They put me to sewing young* I sewed with my fingers* I could sew mighty nice* My mis** 4 tress had a machine she screwed on a table* "All the Gillahms went to Louisiana in war time and left the women with youngest white master* They was trying to keep their slaves from scattering* They were so sure that the War would be lost* "The Yankees camped close to us but didnft bother my white folks to hurt them*. They et them out time and agfin* I seen the Yankees every day* I seen the cannons and cavalry a mile long* The sound was like eternity had turned loose* Everything shook like earthquakes day and night* The light was bright and red and smoke terrible* •Mother cooked and we et from our master1 s table* "We was all scared when the War was on and glad it was over* Mama died at the close* He and my sister share cropped and made seven bales of cotton in one year* "When freedom come on* our master and mistress told us* We all cried* Miss Mollie was next to our own mother* She raised us* We kept on their placet 2* •I cooked for Joe Caaspbell at Forrest City* He had one boy I help to raise* They think well of me#* Interviewerfs Comment Very light mulatto* Bed fast and had two rolls and a cap of coffee* Had been alone all day except when Home Aid girls bathed and cleaned her bed* She is paralyzed* She said she was hungry* &&2 30818 223 Interviewer _____Mrs* Bernics Bowden ~mm Person interviewed Nellie Dunne 3900 W* Sixth Avenue, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 78 •Yes ma9 am, I was slavery born but free raised* I was half as-big as I is now* (She is not much over four feet tall—ed*) Born in Silver Creek, Mississippi* Yes ma9am* They give ever9body on the place their ages but mama said it wasnft no Ycount and tore it up, so I donft know what year I was born* *Qy Magby—*asma was under his control* He would carry us over to the white folks9 house every morning to see Miss Becky* Vhen old master come after us, hefd say, 9What you gwine say?1 and wefd say, fOne-tko-three*f Then we'd go over to old Mis9 and courtesy and say, fGood morning, Miss Becky; good morning, Mars Albert; good morning, Mars Wardly*f They was just little old kids but we had to call fem Mars* "What I know Ifm gwine tell you, but you ainft gwine ketch me in no tale* *I fmember they was gwine put us to carryin9 water for the hands next year, and that year we got free* My mother shouted, fNow I ainft lyinf fbout dat*9 I sure fmember when they sot the people free* They was just ready to blow the folks out to the field* I fmember old Mose would blow the bugle and he could blow that bugle* If you wasnft in, you better get in. Yes ma9am! The day freedom come, I know Mose was just ready to blow the bugle when the Yankees begun to beat the drum down the road* They knowed it was all over then* That ain9t no joke* 2* *I was a full grown woman when I come to Arkansas; I wasn*t no baby* "I went to school one month In my life* That was in Mississippi* "My Joe* (her husband) * just lack one year bein1 a graduate* He went up here to that Branch Normal* That boy had good learning* He could a learnt me but he was too high tempered* If I missed a word he would be so crabbfy* So one night I throwed the book across the room and said, YYou don't need try to learn mi no more**» 224 30958 Interviewer Samuel 3. Taylor Person interviewed William L. Dunwoody 2116 V. 24th Street, Little Rock, Arkansas Age About 98 225 A^2~*Ao /**// ^• 231 When that place gave out, she went to washing and ironing* Sterling Love rented a house from the same man* He had four children and they were going to school and they took me too* Schooling "I fixed up and went to school with them* I didnft get no learning at all in slavery times* How Freedom Come "I don9t know whether all the whites did it or not; but I know this— when they quit fighting, I know the white children called we little children and all the grown people who worked around the house and said, 'You all is jus1 as free as we is* You ainft got no master and no mis- tiss,9 and I don9t know what they told them at the plantation* Occupation "Right after the War, my mother worked—washed—for an old white man* He took an interest in me and taught me* I did little things for him* When he died, I took up the teaching which he had been doing* *At first I taught in Columbus, Georgia* By and by, a white man came along looking for laborers for this part of tLe country* He said money grew on bushes out here* He cleaned out the place* ill the children and all the grown folks followed him* Two of my boys came to me and told use they were coming. We hoboed on freights and walked to Chattanooga, Tennessee* We stayed there awhile* Then a white man came along getting laborers* I never kept the year nor nothin9* He brought us to Lonoke County, and I got work on The Bood Bar Plantation* Squirrels, wild things, cotton and corn, plenty of it* So you see, the man told the truth when he said money grew on bushes* 8* "I taught and farmed all my life* Farming is the greatest occupation* It supports the teacher9 the preacher, the lawyer, the doctor* None of them can live without it* "I can't do much now since that lady knocked me down with her automo** bile and made me a cripple* Ifd a been all right if so many of them young doctors hadn't experimented on me* Then I can't see good out of one eye* I can't do much now* I don't know why they won't give me a pension*11 Interviewer's Comment William lXinwoody had seme of his dates and occurrences mixed up as would be natural for a man ninety-eight years old* But there was one respect in which he was sharper than anyone else interviewed* r At the close of the first day's interview when I arose to go he said to me, •Now you got what you want?" I told him yes and that I would be back for more the next day* Then he said, "10119 if you got what you want9 there's one thing I want you to do for me before you go." "Certainly, Brother lXinwoody," I said, "I'll be glad to do anything you want me to do* Just what can I do for you?" "Well,* he said, "I want you to read me what you been writ in' there •" And I read it* A little grandchild about four years old kept us company while he dictated to me* I furnished pennies for the child's candy and a nickel for the old man's tobacco* The old man got a kick out of the dictation* After the first day, he became very cautious* He would say, "Now don't write this," and he wouldn't let me take it down the way he said it* Instead, 9i he would make a long statement and then we would work out the giat of it together« He is not highly schooled, and he is not especially pre- possessing in appearance; but he is a long way from decrepit—mentally* He walka with a crutch and haa a defect in the sight of one eye* He has good hearing and talks in a pleasant voice* 233 30833 234 Interviewer_______________Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Lucius Edwards Age 72 Interviewees Coiament I went to see Lucius Edwards, age seventy-two, twice* He has colitis* He wouldnft tell me anything* He said he was born in Shrevaport, Louisiana and his father took him away so young he knew no mother; his aunt raised hinu The first day he said he remembered all that about his parents* owners* The next day the nurse had him cleaned up and nice meals were/sent in and still he wouldnft tell us anything* He told the nurse he had farmed and worked on the railroad all his life* He was up but wouldnft tell us anything. He told^pie, *I donft think I ever voted.11 We decided he might be afraid hefd^ twist his tales and wefd catch him some way. 30321 235 interviewer— Mary D. Eudgins_____________ Person Interviewed John Elliott_________Age 80 Home South Border ( paoperty of brother's estate) As told by: John Elliott "No, ma'am. I ain't got no folks. They've all died out. My son, he may be alive* When I last heard from him. he was in Pine Bluff. But I wrote down lots of times and nobody can't find him* Brother said, that was before he died, that I oould stay on in the place as long as I lived* Eis wife oome to> see me some years back and she said it was that way. The eomodity gives me milk, and a little beside. I'm expectiiTto hear if I get the pension, Tuesday. No ma'am, I ain't worked in three, years. Yes, ma'am , I was a slave. I was about 8 years old when they mustered 'em out the last time* My daddy went along to take care of his young master* He died, and my daddy brought his horse and all his belongings horn. 2 John Eliott Hudgins o 'Wt You see it was this way* My mother was a run-away slave. She was from, what's that big state off there---- Virginia——yes, matam, that's it* There was a pretty good flock of them. They came into North Carolina----Wayne Oounty was where John Uliott found them* They was in a pretty bad way* They didn ' t have no place to go and they didn't have nothing to eat* They didn't have nobody to own 'em/ They didn't know what to do. My mother was about 13. By some means or other they met up with a man named John Elliott. Ee was a teacher* He struck a bargain with them* He pitched in and he bought 200 acres of land* He built a big house for Miss Polly and Bunk and Margaret. Miss, Polly was his sister* And "he built cabins for the black folks* And he says * You stay here, and you take care of Miss Polly and the children* Now mind, you raise lots to eat* You take care of the place too* And if anybody bothers you you tell Miss Polly* My Uncle Mose, he was the oldest* He was a blacksmith* Jacob was the carpenter* 'Now look here, Mose," says Mister tohn, ? you raise plenty of hogs* Mind you give all the folks plenty of meat* Then you take the rest to Miss Polly and let her look it in the smokehouse* ' Miss Polly carried the key, but Mose was head man and had dominion over the smokehouse* Johm Elliott Hudgins 237 They didn't get money to any extreme. But whatever they wanted, Miss Folly would go along with them and they would buy it* They went to Goldsboro. That was the biggest town near us* The patrollers never bothered any of us. Once or twice they tried it. But Miss Polly wrote to Mr. John. He'd write it all down like it ought to be. Then they didn t bother us any more. There was no* speculation wid 'am like there was with other negro people* They never had to go to the hiring ground* Mr. John built a church for My mother and the other women who was running mates with her* And he built a school for the children* Some other colored children tried to come to the school too* They was welcome* But sometimes the white folks would tear up the books of the colored children from outside that tried to come* Our folks stayed on and on* Mr. John was off teaching school most of the time. We stayed on and on* Pretty soon there was about 150---200,of us. Some of them was carpenters and some of them was this and some was that. Mr. John even put in a mill* A groundhog saw mill, it was* Some white men put it in. But it was the colored folks who run it. They all stayed right on on the farm. There wasn't any white folks about at all, except Miss Polly and Bunk and Margaret* John Elliott Hudgins. 238 Ho, ma'am, after the waj it didn't make much difference* We all stayed on* We worked the place* And when we got a chance, Mr* John let us hire out and keep the money, And if the folks wouldnrt pay us, Mr* John would write the Federal and the Federal would see that we got our money for what we had worked* Mr. John was a mighty good man to us* No ma'am* Nobody got discontented for a long time. Then some men come in and messed them up. Told us that we could make more money other places* And it was true too-—---if they had let us get the money* By that time Mr. John had died* Bunk had died too* Miss Margaret had grown up and married. Eer husband was managing the farm. He was good, but he wasn't like Mr* Joha* So lots of us moved away* But about not making money* Take me* I raised 14-<6 bales of cotton* The man who owned the land, I worked on halvers, sold it on the Liverpool mar let* But he wouldn't pay me but about 1/3 of what he collected on my half* And I says to him, 'You gets full price for your half, why can't I get full price for mine ?• And he says, ? It's against the rules*' And I says, • It ain't fair*' And he says, 'It's the rides* So after about six years 1 quit farming* You can't make no money that way. Yes-----you make it, but you can't get it* John Elliott Hudgins 239 I went to town at Pine Bluff* There I got to mixing concrete. I made pretty good at it, too. I stayed on for some yea Vs. Then I came to Hot Springs. My brother was along with. me. We both wo-rked and after work we built a house. It took us four years. But it was a good bouse. It has six roosts in it* It makes a good home. My brother bad the deed. But his widow says I can stay on. The folks what lives in the rest of the bouse are good to me. When 1 got to Hot springs t worked mixing « 'concrete. There was lots of sidewalks being made along about that time. Then I scatter dirt all around where the oort house is now. Then I worked at both, of the very biggest hotels. I washed. I washed cream pitchers— the little ones with corners that were hard to clean. No, I ain't worked in three years. It hard to try to get along. Some states, they pays good pensions. I oan't be here long---don't look like I can be here long. Seems as if they could take care of me for the few days I'm going to be on this earth. Seems like they could. 30305 Interviewer Mrs* Carol Graham 240 Person interviewed _______Millie Evans Age________ Yof say yof is infrested in the lives of the slaves? Well, Miss, I is one of fem. Was born in 1849 but I don1 know jus* when. My birthday comes in fodder pullin1 time cause my ma said she was pullin up till bout a hour 'fore I was born.- Was born in North Carolina and was a young lady at the time of surrender. I don1 f member olf masters name; all I Member is that we call fem ol! master an olf mistress. They had bout a hundred niggers and they was rich. Master always tended the men and mistress tended to us* Evfy mornin1 bout fof f clock olf master would ring de bell for us to git up by an yo could hear dat bell ringin all over de plantation. I can hear hit now. Hit would go ting-a-ling, ting-a-ling and I can see fem now stirrin in Carolina. I git so lonesome when I thinks bout times we used to have. Twas better livin back yonder than now. I stayed with my ma every night but my mistress raised me. My ma had to work hard so evfy time olf mistress thought we little black chil- luns was hungry 'tween meals she would call us up to the kouse to eat# Sometime she would give us johnny cake an plenty of buttermilk to drink wid it. They had a long trough fof us dat day would keep so clean. They would fill dis trough wid buttermilk and all us chillun would git roun1 thf trough an drink wid our mouths an hoi1 our johnny cake wid our hanfs# *• 241 I can jus1 see myself drinkin1 now* Hit was so good. There was so many black fo'ksto cook fuh that the cookin was done outdoors* Greens was cooked in a big black washpot jus1 like yof boils clothes in now* An1 sometime they would crumble bread in the potlicker an give us spoons an we would stan1 roun' the pot an1 eat* When we et our regular meals the table was set uader a chinaberry tree wid a oil cloth table cloth an when dey called us to th' table they would ring the bell. But we didnf eat out'n plates* le et out of gourds an had ho'made wood spoons. An' we had plenty feat* ihooo-eeel Jus' plenty t'eat* 01' master's folks raised plenty o' meat an dey raise dey sugar, rice, peas, chickens, eggs, cows an' jus' ev'ything good t'eat* Ev'y ev'nin' at three 'clock ol' mistress would call all us litsy bitsy chillun in an we would lay down on pallets an have to go to sleep* I can hear her now singin* to us piccaninnies: *Hush-a-bye, bye-yo'-bye, mammy's piccaninnies Way beneath the silver shining moon Hush-a-bye, bye-yo'-bye, manmy's piccaninnies Daddy's little Carolina coons Now go to sleep yo' little piccaninnies.* Ihen I got big 'nough I nursed my mistress's baby* When de baby go to sleep in de evenin' I woul' put hit in de cradle an' lay down by de cradle an go to sleep. I played a heap when I was little* We played Susannah Gal, jump rope, callin' cows, runnin', jumpin', skippin', an jus' ev'ythin' we could think of* When I got big 'nough to cook, I cooked den* 3. 242 The kitchen of the big house was built way off f fom the house and we cooked on a great big olf fif place. We had swing pots an would swing ?em t>ver the fire an cook an had a big olf skillet wif legs on hit. We call hit a ubben an cooked bread an cakes in it. We had the besf mistress an master in the worlf and they was Christian fo'ks an they taught us to be Christianlike too. Evfy Sunday mornin1 olf master would have all us niggers to the house while he would sing an pray an read de Bible to us all. 01f master taught us not to be bad; he taught us to be good; he tol1 us to never steal nor to tell false tales an not to do anythin* that was bad. He said: ¥bf will reap what yof sow, that you sow it single anf reap double. I learnt that when I was a little chile an I ainft fofgot it yet. When I got grown I went de Baptist way. God called my pa to preach an ol1 master let him preach in de kitchen an in the back yard under thf trees. On preachin* day ol' master took his whole family an all th1 slaves to church wid him. We had log school houses in them days an fofks learnt more than they does in the bricks tfday. Down in the quarters evfy black family had a one or two room log cabin. We didn' have no floors in .them cabins. Nice dirt floors was de style then an we used sage brooms. Took a string an tied the sage to- gether an had a nice broom outfn that. We would gather broom sage fof our winter brooms jus1 like we gathered our other winter stuff. We kepf our dirt floors swep1 as clean anT white. An our bed was big an tall an had little beds to push under there. They was all little er nough to go under de other an in th1 daytime we would push fem all under the big one an make heaps of room. Our beds was stuffed wid hay an straw an shucks an b'lieve me chile they sho1 slepf good. 4* 242 When the boys would start to the quarters from thT fielf they would get a turn of lider knots* I specks yof knows fem as pine knots* That was what we use* fo* light* When our fire went out we had no fire. Didnf know nothin1 bout no matches* To start a fire we would take a skillet lid an a piece of cotton an a flint rock* Lay de cotton on thf skillet lid an' take a piece of iron an beat the flint rock till the fire would coine* Sometime we would beat fof thirty minutes before the fire would come an start the cotton then we woul1 light our pine* Up at thf big house we didnf use lider knots but used tallow candles for lights* We made the ccxdles ffom tallow that we took f'om cows* We had moulds and would put string in there an leave the en1 stickin1 out to light an melt the tallow an pour it down aroun1 thf string in the mould* We use to play at night by moonlight and I can recollec1 singin wid the fiddle* Oh, Lord, dat fiddle could almos1 talk an I can hear it ring- in now* Sometime we would dance in the moonlight too* 01f master raised lots of cotton and the women fofks carded an spun an wove cloth, then they dyed hit an made clothes* An we knit all the stockinfs we wof. They made their dye too, ffom diffe'nt kin's of bark an leaves an things. Day would take the bark an boil it an strain it up an let it stan1 a day then wet the fterial in colf water an shake hit out an drop in the boilin* dye an let it set bout twenty minutes then take it out an hang it up an let it dry right out of that dye* Then rinse it in col1 water an let it dry then it woulf be ready to make* Ifll tell yof how to dye* A little beech bark dyes slate color set with copperas* Hickory bark and bay leaves dye yellow set with chamber lye; bamboo dyes turkey red, set color wid copperas* Pine straw dyes purple, 5* set color with chamber lye* To dye cloth brown we would take de cloth an put it in the water where leather had been tanned an let it soak then set the color with apple vinegar* An we dyed blue wid indigo an set the color wid alunuL We wof draws made out of termestie that come down longer than our dresses an we wof seven petticoats in the winter wid sleeves in dem petticoats in the winter an the boys wof big olf long shirts* They didn' know nothin bout no britches till they was great big, jus* wen1 rounf in dey shirttails* An we all wof shoes cause my pa made shoes* Master taught pa to make shoes an the way he done, they killed a cow an took the hide an tanned it* The way they tanned it was to take red oak bark and put in vats made some thin* like troughs that held water* Firs1^ he would put in a layer of leather an a layer of oak ashes an a layer of leather an a layer of oak ashes till he got it all in an cover with water* After that he let it soak till the hair come off the hide# Then he would take the hide out an it was ready for tannin1 • Then the hide was put to soak in with the red oak bark* It stayed in the water till the hide turned tan then pa took the hide out of the red oak dye an it was a purty tan* It didnf have1 to soak long* Then he would get his pattern an cut an make tan shoes outfn the tanned hides. We called fem brogans. They planted indigo an it growed jus1 like wheat* When it got ripe they gathered it an we would put it in a barrel an let it soak bout a week then we woulf take the indigo stems out an squeeze all the juice out of fem an put the juice back in the barrel an let it stan* bout nother week, then we jusf stirred an stirred one whole day* 6. 245 We let it set three or four days then drained the water off an left the settlings and the settlings was blueing jus1 like we have these days* We cut ours in little blocks an we dyed clothes wid it too* We made vinegar out of apples. Took over ripe apples an ground 'em up an put fem in a sack an let drip* Didnf add no water an when it got through drippin we let it sour an strained an let it stan for six months an had some of the bes vinegar ever made. We had homemade tubs and didn1 have no wash boa'ds* Vie had a block an battlin' stick* We put our clofes in soak then took fem out of soak an lay them on the block an take the battling stick an battle the dirt out of 'em* We mos'ly used rattan vines for clotheslines an they made the bes clo'es lines they was* 01' master raised big patches of tobaccy an when dey gather it they let it dry an then put it in lasses* After the lasses dripped off then they roll hit up an twisted it an let it dry in the sun 10 or 12 days. It sho1 was ready for some and cliewin an hit was sweet an stuck together so yof could chew an spit an fjoy hit* The way we got our perfume we took rose leaves, cape jasmines an sweet bazil an laid dem wid our clo'es an let 'em stay three or fof days then we had good smellin1 clofes that would las' too. When there was distressful news master would ring the bell* When the niggers in the fiel' would hear the bell everyone would lis'en an wonder what the trouble was. You'd see fem stirrin' too. They would always ring the bell at twelve 'clock. Sometime then they would think it was some thin' serious an they would stan up straight but if they could see they shadow right under fem they would know it was time for dinner* *• 246 The reason so many white folks was rich was they made money an didnf have nothin1 to do but save it* They made money an raised ev'ything they used, an jus1 didnf have no use fof money* Didn1 have no banks in them days an master buried his money* The floofs in the big house was so pretty an white. We always kepf them scoured good* Se didn' know what it was to use soap. We jusf took oak ashes out of the fif place and sprinkled them on the floof and scoured with a corn shuck mop* Then we would sweep the ashes off an rinse two times an let it dry. When it dri9d it was the cleanes1 floo* they was* To make it white, clean sand was sprinkled on the floo1 an we let it stay a couple of days then the floo1 would be too clean to walk on* The way we dried the floo1 was with a sack an a rag* We would get down on our knees an dry it so dry* I 'member one ni^ht one of olf master1s girls was goin1 to get married. That was after I was big 'nough to cook an we was shof doinf some cookin* Some of the niggers on the place jus* natchally would steal so we cook a big cake of co'n-bread an iced it all pretty an put it out to cool an some of fem stole it* This way old master found out who was doin the stealin cause it was such! a joke on fem they had to tell* All olf master's niggers was married by the white preacher but he had a neighbor who would marry his niggers hisself* He would say to the man: *Do yof want this woman?" and to the girl, "Do yo* want this boy?" Then he would call the olf mistress to fetch the broom an oV master would hold one end an ol1 mistress the other an tell the boy and girl to jump dis broom and he would say: "Dat's yof wife." Dey called Iaarryin, like that jumpin the broom* 8- 247 Now chile I canft 'member everything I done in them days but we didnf have ter worry bout nothin. 01f mistress was the one to worry* Twasn't then like it is now, no twasn't. We had such a good time an ev'ybody cried when the Yankees cried out: "Free.11 Tother niggers say dey ^ad a hard time ffof dey was free but twas then like tis now. If you had a hard time we don it ourselves. 01f master didn' want to part with his niggers an the niggers didnf wanf to part with olf master so they thought by comin to Arkansas they vjould have a chance to keep fem. So they got on their way. We loaded up our wagons an put up our wagon sheet an we had plenty to eat an plenty of horse feed. Vie traveled bout 15 or 20 miles a day an would stop an camp at night. We would cook enough in the morning to las* all day. , The cows was drove t'gether. Some was gentle an some was not an did dey have a time. I mean, dey had a time. While we was on our way alf master died an three of the slaves died too. Me buried the slaves there but we camped while ol! master was carried back to North Carolina. alien olf mistress come back we started on to Arkansas an reached here safe but when we got here we foun* freedom here too. 01f mistress begged us to stay wid her an we stayed till she died then they took her back to Carolina. There wasnf nobody leff but Mi3s Kancy an she soon married an leff an I losf track of her an Mr. Tom. ElDorado district 248 30003 ^ . _^ •$> FOLKLORE SUBJECTS ^5 ^T NAME of Interviewer PBRMBLLA aNDEBSON SUBJECTS_______________Customs related to Slavery ^ime "V________________ I wuz a youn^ lady In the time of surrender. I am e slave chile. I am one of them. I had a gran* time in slavery time_» I wuz born wid de white foks. I stayed wid man muthah at night but mah mistress raised me. I nussed mah muthas gran*chile. I churned and sot de table. When de baby goto sleep in ae evenin* I put hit in de cradle. An» l»d lay cbwn by the cradle and go to sleep. Every evenin* I'd go git lida knots. I played a lot3. I *U2 born 1849. We played Susana Gals, and we just played jump rope. Jes* we gals did. *e played calling* cows. ^ey*d come to us and we run from urn. /fo4mistess wuz a millionaire. I went to school a while. I can count only lit bit. One uz de girl made fun uz me. She kotch me nodding s and we fit dare in de school houe. Old log school house* Dey had two big A rooms* Ah went to de ole fokes church* Young un too. Wefd cry if we didn't git ter go ter church wid ma and pa. ' ; Our table was sot under a china berry tree and ooo-eee chile I can see hit now* We et on a loal (oil) table cloth* When dey called us to de table dey would ring a bell* We didn* eat out uz plates. We et outn gourds. We all et outn gourds. When I got big nuff ter cook I cooked den. We had plenty to eat. We raised who-eee ple^.^y meat* We raised our sugar, rice, peas, chikens, eggs, cows. Who-eee chile we had plenty to eat. Our mistess had ovah a hunert(lOO) niggers* Ole moster nevah did whip none uv us niggers* He tended de men and mistess always tended to us. I wudden( wasn't) quite grown when I wuz married. We cooked out in de yard anf on fire- places too in dose big ubbena(ovens). We cooked greens in a wash pot jes like you boil clothes, dats de way we cook greens. We cooked ash cakes too an we cooked persinroon braid( bread). An evah thing we had wuz good too. 249 We made ouir churns in dem days* Made dem outn cypress* Evahbody cried when dem yankees cried out: **ree? We cried too; we hated hit so bad* We had such a good time* I is gittin so ole I can't member so ever* thini I done* Now chile ah cain't manber evahf thin* I done but in dem days we didn* have ter worry fbout nothinf* Ole mistress wuz de one ter worry. Twasnft den like hit is now* No T^asn't* Tother niggers say dey had er hard time foe dem Yankee dried "^ree" but it ^pxz den jes like hit is now if you had a hard time we done hit ourselves* This information fiiven by__Millie Evans______(Negroes pronounce it (Irvina) Place of Residence_________By Missouri Pacific Track near MOP Shops________ Occupation___________________None__________________________Age 87___________ Jrt y^t/, El Borado District tJ- WBBR 250 7 ^j^ FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Name of Interviewer FERMLLA AHDER30N / localities and certfl^jn people(negroes) Subject FOOD- Paticulnr foods typical and characteristic of certin FERSDP'ON PIE Make a crust like you would any other pie crust and take your persimmons and wash theiju Let them be pood and ripe* Get. the seed out of them* Donft cook them* Mash them and put cinnamon and spice in and butter* Sugar to tasta. Then roll your dou$i and put in cuatard pan, and then add the filling, then put a top crust on it, sprinkle a little sugar on tdp and bake* PERSIMMON CORNBREjD Sift meal and add your ingredients then your per- sijnmons that have been washed and the seeds taken out and mash them and put in and stir well together*^ Grease pan well and pour in and b ke. Eat with fresh meat* P5RSD.ff.fQN BEER Gather your persimnons, wash and put in a keg, cover 15III with water and add about two cups of meal to it and let sour about three days* Thalpakes a nice drink* Boil persimmons just as you do prunes now day and they will answer for the same purpose* ASH CAKE Two cups of meal and one teaspoon of salt and just enough hot water to make it stick together. Boll out in pones and wrap in a corn shuck or collard leaves or paper. Lay on hot ashes and cover with hot ashes and let cook about ten minutes. ft C0KN3READ JONNY C"KE Two cups of meal, one half cup of flour about a -----------^--71------------ teaspoon of soda, one cup of syrup, one-half teaspoon salt, beat well* Add teaspoon of lard* Pour in greased pan and bake* El Dorado District -*- 251 (Old Mistress wud give us this toto bread johnny cake about four ofclock in de evening and give us plenty of buttermilk to drink wid it* Dey had a long trough* Dey kepf hit so clean fur us* 2vfry evening about four dey would fill de trough full uv milk and wus abut 100 of us chilluns. We'd all ret round de trough and drink wid our mouth and hold our johnny cake in our hanrs. I can jes see raahself drinkin now. It wus so good.) BBBF DUMPIIN5 Take t hep rough (meaning broth) from boiled beef and season with salt, peper and add you dumplins jus as you would chicken dumplins. Pick and wash beet tops just as you would turnip greens *md cook with meat to season. Season to suit taste. This makes the best vegetable dish. POTATO 3ISQTTIT Two cups flour. Two teaspoons of baking powder, pinch of soda, teaspoon of salt, tablespoon bt lard, two cups of cooked, well mashed sweet potatoes and railk to make a nice dough. IRISH POTATO PIE Boil potatoes, set off and let cool, then mash well and add one cup sugar, two eggs, butter size of an egg, milk, spice to suit taste, bake in pie crust. Irish potatoes make a better pie than s^eet Dbtatoes* This information given by MILLIE TST'NS ( Negro r^all it Ivins) Place of Residence 3y tlissouri Pacific Track near MOP Shops. Occupation___________Hone_________________________________Age 87 30326 Interviewer Kary g» Sudgins Person interviewed lft>ae Ivans Some 451 Walnut____________Aged 76 Radioa from half a dozen houses blared out on tba afternoon air* las Winalow was popular but ran. a poor second to Jazz bands in which moaning trombones predominated* At one or two houses a knock or Jangling ball bad roused nobody* "Shay's* all off at work," a neighbor usually volunteered* But in thia bloak of comfortable cottages fronting on the paved seation of Walnut evidently there were a goodly number of stay-at-homes. A mild prosperity seemed to pervade everything. The Walnut seation is in tha "old part of town"* some of tba houses bad evidently been built during tba 90s; but tbay ware wall kept up and painted, Share was avidanee here and there of former dependence on wells for water. One or two bad bean simply boarded over, (toe, a front yard affair bad been ingeniously converted into a huge flower pot* The wall had bean filled in, its circular brisk walls covered wltk Z Hose Brans Httdgine 253 a thick layer of cement . Into this, while still damp* had bee* pressed crystals* Ivea in January the vessel here evidence of summer blooming* 1KKPABB TO MBIT YOUR 6W afcmoniabed the electrified box sign attatehed to the front pores of one dwelling* Its border was of black wood* The sign itself was of white frosted glass* letters of the slogan were in scarlet* Kext doer was another religious reminder* It was a modest pasteboard window card and announced Bible Study at 2: P*K daily* i&ree blocks up Walnut the pavement ends* Beyond that sidewalks too, listlessly peter out* A young, but enthusiastically growing ditch is beginning to separate $ath from street* souses begin to take on a more dilapidated appearance. 3hey learn uncertainly* A colored woman stops to stare at the white one* plants herself directly in the stranger»s path and demands» "Is you the investigator t HO t Well who is you looking for t Oh, Kose* he*s at his son's* Good thing I stopped you* amuse you would have gone too far* He's at his sonls* Bis grandson just done had his tonsils out* He's over there** The interviewer climbed the ladder-like steps leading to *his son's house** 10 Hose wasn't there* Be had just left* Maybe he'd gone home* The de-tonslled child proved to be a 3 moss Ivans. Hudgine 254 brigat eyed, saddle-colored youngster of three, enormously interested in the stranger* He wore whip-cord Jodphurs— protruding widely on either side of his plump thi#is-—and knee high leather riding hoots* Plump and soiling* he looked for all the world like a kewple provided with a Vinir ey crown and blistered to a rich chocolate by a friendly sun* the child eyed the interviewer's pencil* Since she was carrying a "spare* she offered it to him* He smiled and accepted with alacrity* Later when ths Interviewer had found Mose and brought him hack to the house to he questioned} the grandson brought forth his long new pencil and showed it with heartfelt pride* On up the street went the interviewer* Arrived at 451 she approached the house through a yard strewn with wood chips and piled with cordwood* Nobody answered her. knock* Two blocks hack toward town she was stopped by the same woman who had accosted her before* "Did you find him ?» «No,» replied the interviewer* *w/ell he's somewhere on the street* He's a*carrying a cane* You just stop any man you see with a cans and ask him if he ain't Hose Brans** The adviee was sound/ The first elderly man coming north was carrying a cans* He was Mose Evans* Moss Evans HUdgins* 255 •So you-all got together?1* called the officious neighbor* "Mose, you ought of asked her—when you see her coming up the street if she wasn't looking for you** "Maybe," said Mose, "hut then I didn't know, and I don't want to fcutsTlnto other folks business* "Huh** snorted the woman, "spose I hadn't butted in* Where*d you be* You wouldn't have found her and she wouldn't have found you$* Both. Mose and the interviewer were forced to admit that she was right—but from Hose's disapproving expression he , like the interviewer, was sorry of it* *ffo9 ma'am* I ain't been-here long* Just about two weeks* You want to talk to met L*tfs go en up to my son's house* We'll stop there* I's tired* seems like I get tired awful quick* Bad to go down to the store to get some coal.8 ( He was carrying a paper sack of about two gallon capacity* "Goal" was probably charcoal—much favored among wash women for use in a small bucket-furnace for heating "flat-irons'** 'i My wife has to work awful hard to earn enough to buy enough coal and wood* Did I say I'd been here two weeks ? I meant I has been here two years* I's lived all over* Came here from Woodruff county* Yes, ma'am* I oan't work no more* My wife she gets 2----3 days washing a week* Then she gists some bundles to bring home and do* She got sick , same as me and her brothers 5 Ho** Iran* Ettdgiao 256 earn* oa doom to bring bar up kere to look after* Tboy provided for me too* They took good care of us, Then on* of *ea got aiok himself, and the other fee lest out in a money way* So ska*a a washing* Can't remember wery amok about the war. I was just a little thing whom it was a*going oa* waa hardly any size at all* X does remember standing In the door of my mother•• house and watching the soldiers go by* Men dressed in blue they waa* Wasn't afraid of them——didn't have sense enough to be, I guess* Looked sort of pretty to me, dressed all in blue that way* And thoy waa riding fine korsea* Hade a nig noise they did* Thay was a'riding by in a sort of aweeping gallop* I won't never forget it* Guess •onfederatea passed tool,. I was too small to know about thorn* They was all soldiers to me* folks told mo they waa on their way to Vleksaurg, I hoard toll that there waa lets of fighting dawm around Tlokefturg* I was bora oa a place which belonged to a man named Tnad 8haekleford* Don't remember hla very well* They took ao away from his plaoo whoa I was little* Bat X never did hoar ay mother say anything against him* jjrfal fine man, ahe said, awful fine man* I had lota of half si at era—5 of 'am and 6 half brothers* There was just one fall sister* 6 Base irans mdgins 257 Farm t sat until I was 14* Just stayed around the house and nursed the children* Buraed lots of ehildren « Took care of than and amused them. Played with than* Bat for four, five, maybe six years X helped my mother farm* Want out into the f ielda and works** Then I want to myself* Yes, ma'am* I share cropped* Share cropped up until about lt06* By that time % had got together a pretty good lot and $ bought stock and tools* Then I rantad——rantad thirds and fourths* I liked that way lota hast* It»a beat if a body can gat himself stocked up* But lat ma tall you* ma'am* It's a lot easier to gat behind than it is to catch up* falling behind is easy* Catching up ain't so simple* I sort of lost my health and than t bad to sail my stock* After that It was share-crop again* I share cropped right up until 19S5* That's whan we come bare* Yea, ma'am wa moved around a lot* Longest what I worked for any mam was 12 years* Ea waa ?*W* Hill, tba bast mam I ever did see* Ones I rantad from a colored man, but ha died* Was with bim 6 years before another man came into poaasaiom* Santad from Cookerill 4 years and Doss Z yeara* and ioyla 5 years* But now I»s like am old shoe* I's worm out* Been a good, faithful servant, but I'e wmre out* * b 30038 258 Interviewer________S. S. Taylor ^ Person interviewed Rachel Fairley 1600 Brown St. e 75 Little Rock, Ark. NV Occupation______General Housework JL ekfitht-*. £*&*£-- 4o^yJ?j$£ the Boulevard1 ? Holding to a general direction she kept her course. "The Boulevard", known on the tex books of Hot spring?, as Boulevard Addition, sprswls over a wide area* Houses vary in size and construction with startling frequency. Few of them are pretentious. Many appear well planned, are in excellent state of repair and front on yards, scrupulously neat, sometimes patterned with flower beds. Occasionally a building leans with age, roof caving and windows end doors yawning voids---long since abandoned by owners to wind and weather. Up one hill, down another went the interviewer. Given a Pepper steer here and there by colored men and women-—even children along the way, she finally found hereself in front of "that green house" belonging to Peach Sinclair. Mrs* Lou Fergps sen Ilsry d* Hudgins 2V7 Two colored women, middle aged, sat basking in the mild -January sunlight on a back porch* "I beg your pardon," said the interviewer, approaching the step,"is this the home of Peach Sinclair, and will I find Urs* Lou Fergusson here ?" MIt sure is,* the voice was cheerful, "My mother is in the house* Gome around to the front," ( the interviewer couldn't have reached the beck steps, even if she had wanted to— the b.ck yard was fenced from -the front) "she's in the parlor•» Mrs. Lou turned out to be an incredibly black, unbelievably plump-cheeked, wide smiling "motherly" person* 'She seemed an Aunt JemimaJk grown suddenly old, and even more mellow* "Iviamma, this young lady's cone to see you. She wants to talk to you and ask you some questions, about vj"-:en------about before the war*" (The situation is always delicate when'an ex-slave is asked for details* Somehow both interviewer and interviewee afroid the ugly ;vord whenever possible. The skillful interviewer can generally uansge to passjit by completely*; as well as any variant of the word negro* Tfce informant is usually less squeamish. "Black folks,? "colored folks", "black people", "Master's people", ffua" are all encountered frequently* Five minutes of pleasant chatter preceeded the formal interview. Both Mrs. Sinclair and her guest ( unintroduced) sat in on the conference and mace comments frequently. "Law, child, we 3 Mrs* Lou Fergusson Mary d. HUdgins 2*78 bought this place from your father* He was a mighty fine man." Mrs. Sinclair was delighted to find her guest to be "Jack Hudgins daughter." And later in the chat, "You done lost everything ? Sven your home----that's going ? Too bed. But then I'guess at that you're better off than we are. I've been trying for nearly a year to get my mother on the old age pension. They say she has passed. That was way along last.Larch. Here it is January and she hasn't got a penny* Ho, I know you can't help. Yes, I see what you're doing. But if ever you does get on the pensions work---- I'm going to *hant' you." ( a wide 0rin) The old woman rocked and smiled. "Yes, ma'am. I'm her oldest, alive. She had 17 and 15 of them lived to grow up. But I'm about as old as she is, looks like. She never did have glasses----and today she can thread the finest needle* She can make as pretty a quilt as you'd hope to see* Makes fine stitches too. Seems like they made them stronger in her day." A nod of delighted approval from Us. Fergusson. *nHant was an intertional barbarism. Mrs* Lou Fergus son Hudgins 3*79 "I was born in Hemp steed County, right here in this state* The town we were nearest was Columbus* I lived around there all of my life until I come here to be with my daughter. That was 15 years ago* Yes, I was born on a farm. Erom what I know, I'm over ninety* I was around 20 when the war ceaseted* The man what owned us was named Ed Johnson. Yes, ma'am he had lots of folks* Was he good to us. Well, he was and he wasn't* He was good himself, wouldn't never have whipped us----but he had a mean wife* She'd dog hiir., and dog him until he'd tie us down and whip us for the least little thing* Then they put overseers over us* . They was most generally mean* Thejsd run us out way fore day-—even in the sleet----run us out to the field* Y/ss the lifie hard—well it was and it wasn't* No, ma'am, I didn't get mjich learning* Some folks wouldn't let their black folks learn at all* Then there was some which would let their children .teach the colored children what they learned at school* We never learned very much* You see, Master didn't live on the place. He lived bout as far as from here to town" ( fully two miles) The overseer looked after us mostly* No, ma'am I don't remember ftuch about the v;ar* You see, they was afraid that the fighting was going to get dov.n there so they run us off to Texas* We settled down and made a crop there* How'd we get the land? Master rented it* Mrs. Lou Fergusson Mary D. Hudgins. 2gQ We made a crop down there and later we come hack, llo, ma'am we didn't styy with Mr. Johnson more than a month after there was peace. We cone on in to Washington. No, ma'am, I never heard tell that Washington had been the Capitol of .Arkansas for a while during the War. No, I never did hsar that. Guess it was when we was in Texas. Then we folks didn't hear so much anyway. We stayed in Washington most a year. Was I with my Mother? No, ma'am I was married---married "before the war was thru. Married-----does you know how we folks married in them days ? Well the man asked your mother. Then you both asked your master. l-e built you a house. You moved in and there you was. You was married. I did some washing and cooking when I was in '.vashington. Then we moved onto a farm. I sort of liked Washington, but I was born on a farm and I sort of liked farm life. We didn't move around very ranch----just two or three places. We reised cotton, ccrfn, vegetables, peas, watermelons and lots of those sort of things. No ma'am, didn't nobody think of raising watermelons to ship way off like they does in Hempsfcead county now. Cotton was our cash crop. We rented thirds and fourths. Didn't move but three times. One place I stayed 15 years. I been a widow 40 yea_s. Yes, ma'am. I farmed myself, and my children helped me. Me and the owners gQt alQng ^1U Fergusson Hudgins. 281 Made good crops, me and the children* I managed to take good care of them. Made out to raise 15 out of the 17 to be Frown* There's only 5 of them alive now* Hard on a woman to run a farm by herself. Well now, I don't know. I made out* I raised my children and raised them healthy* I got along well with the farm owner. You might know when I was let to stay on one place for US' years* You know I must have treated the land right and worked it fair* Yes ma'am I remembers lots. Seems like women folks remembers better than men* I've got a good daughter* I'm still strong and can get about good. Guess the Lord has been gockd to me* " 30431 282 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Jennie fferrell. West Memphis» Arkansas Age 65 "I was born in Yellowbush County, Mississippi close to Grenada. Grandmother come from North Carolina* They wouldnft sell grandpa* He was owned by Laston* They never met again* She brought two boys with her* She was a Pernell. Her master brought her away and would have brought her husband but they wouldnft sell* She said durin* her forty years in slavery she never got a whoopin1. She was a field hand* After she come to Mississippi they was so good to her they called her free* She was a midwife* She doctored the rich white and colored* She rode horseback, she said, far and near* In Grenada after freedom she walked* They called her free her master was so good to her* I donft know how she learned to be a midwife. Her master was Henry Pernell. He owned a small place twelve miles from Grenada and another place in the Mississippi bottoms. My folks become renters after freedom* I don't know if they rented from him but I guess they did* *The Ku KLux never bothered them that I ever heard than mention** \r 30983- '30912 283 Interviewer Pernella Anderson___________ Person Interviewed Frank Fikea, SI Dorado. Arkansas Age About 88 "My name is Frank Tikes* I live between SI Dorado and Strong and I am 79 years old if I make no mistake* I know my mama told me years ago that I was born in watermelon time* She said she ate the first watermelon that got ripe on the place that year and it made her s.tck* She thought she had the colic* Said she went and ate a piece of calamis root for the pain and after eating the root for the pain behold I was born* So if I live and nothing happens to me in watermelon tine I will be eigity this year* I was a boy at surrender about the age of fourteen or fifteen* "Ify work was very easy when I was a little slave* Something got wrong with my foot when I first started to walking and I was crippled* I could not get around like the other children, so my work was to nurse all of the time* Sometimes, as fast as I got one baby to sleep I would have to nurse another one to sleep* We belonged to Mars Colonel Williams and he had I guess a hundred families on his place and nearly every family had a baby, so I had a big job after all* The rest of the children carried water, pine, drove up cows and held the calves off and made fires at old mar's house* "I had to keep a heap fire so the boys wouldn't have to beat fire out of rocks and iron* Old miss did the cooking while all of the slaves worked* The slaves stood around the long back porch and ate* They ate out of wooden bowls and wooden spoons* They ate greens and peas and bread* *• 284 And old miss fed all of us children in a large trough. She fed us on what we called the licker from the greens and peas with bread mashed in it* lie children did not use spoons* We picked the bread out with our fingers and got down on our all fours and sipped the licker with our mouth* We all had a very easy time we thought because we did not know any better then* "I never went to church until after surrender* Neither did we go to school but the white children taught me to read and count* "I recollect as well today as if it had been yesterday the soldiers passing our house going to Vicksburg to fight* The reason I recollect it so well they all was dressed in blue suits with pretty gold buttons down the front* They passed a whole day and we watched them all day* "Old miss and mars was not mean to us at all until after surrender and we were freed* We did not have a hard time until after we were freed* They got mad at us because we was free and they let us go without a crumb of anything and without a penny and nothing but what we had on our backs* We wandered around and around for a long time* Then they hired us to work on halves and man, we had a hard time then and Ifve been having a hard time ever since* "Before the War we lived in log cabins* There was a row of log cabins a quarter of a mile long* No windows and no floor* We had grass to sit on* Our beds was made of pine poles nailed to the wall and we slept on hay beds* My mama and other slaves pulled grass and let it dry to make the beds with* Our cover was made from our old worn out clothes* *0n Sunday evenings we played* We put on clean clothes once a week* In summer we bathed in the branch* We did not bathe at all in winter* s. 285 I went in my shirt tail until I was eleven or twelve years old. Back in slavery time boys did not wear britches• They wore shirts and our hair was long* The slaves say if you cut a child's hair before he or she was ten or twelve years old they won't talk plain until they are that ol,d#" 80803 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed J» E* Filer. Marianne* Arkansas Age 76 *I was born in Washington, Georgia* I come here in 1866* There was three stores in Marianne* My parents name Betsy and Bob Filer* My mother belong to Collins in Georgia* She come to this state with Golonel Woods• She worked in the field in Georgia and here too* Mama said they always had some work on hand* Work never played out. When it was cold and raining they wotild shuck corn to send to mill* The men would be under a shelter making boards or down at the blacksmith shop sharpening up the tools so they could work* •Since we case to this state Ifve seen them make oak boards and pile them up in pens to dry out straight • I donft recollect that in Georgia* I was so little when we come here* I can recollect that but not much else* My brother was older* He might tell all about it** a Interviewer's Comment/" / I didn't get to see hi^/brother* Iyfent twice 111096 but he/wi rare on a Interviewerfs Comment, • / -, , , /was / / / at wqjk on a farm somewhere. 286 04 N> 30709 Interviewer__________Samuel S. Taylor Sub j act______________Ex-slavery Birth, Fiamily, and Master. *I was born in Mississippi in Tippa County not far from the edge of Tennessee. I wasn't raised in Arkansas, but all my child- ren was raised here. I really donft know just where in Tippa county I was born. My mother's name was Ann Toler. Toler was my step father. My real father, I don't know* My mother never told me nothin' bout him and I don't know that; I can't tell what I don't know. *My grandfather on my mother's aide was Captain Ellis. That is the one come after me when I *taa small to carry me back to my folks. I didn't know him, and I said ' I don't want to go 'way with them strange Niggers. He's dead now. They're all dead long age I have got children over fifty years old myself. I am the mother of nine children—three of them living. One of the living ones is Arthur Finger. He lives in St. Louis. I expected to hear from him today, but didn't. Cornelius Finger. (He is a brownskin boy, spare made), lives in Palestine, Arkansas, near Forrest City. Arthur is my baby boy. Elmira was my baby girl. She's the one you met. She's married and has children of her own. Person Interviewed Orleans ^ingep; Negro(Apparently octoroon or quadroon) Address________2804 West fifteenth Street» Uttle Rockt Arkansas* Occupation Formerly field hand and housekeeper AGE 79 287 2. 288 "Captain Ellie' wife was named Minerva* She was my mother's mother. Shefs been d ead years. I got children older than she was when she died* She died in Mississippi* I got a cousin named Molly Spight. She*8 dead* My mother9s sister was named Emmaline; she is dead now too* ••My mother was colored* I don't know nothin' about my father, and my mother never taught me nothin' fbout him. *My step father and mother were both field hands. They worked in the field. *I donft know just when I was born, but I am just sure that it was before the war. I remember hearing people talk about things in the war* * *My mother's master was named Whitely, I think* because she was named Whitley before she married. •I have been married three times* The first man I married was 'Lijah Gibbs. The second time I married, I married Joe Finger. The third time I married Will Reese* He warn't no husband at all* They're all dead* Folks always called me Finger after my second husband died, because I didnH live with my third husband long. House •They had log houses. You would never see no brick chimney nor nothing of that kind* The logs were notched down and kinda kivered flat-- no roof like now. They might have rafters on them*, but the top was almost flat. Wouldn't be any steep like they is now* In them times they wouldn't have many rooms. Sometimes they would have two. 289 They wouldn't have so many windows. Just old dirt chimneys. They'd take and dig a hole and stick sticks up in it. Then theyfd uake up the dirt and put water in it and pull grass and mix it in the dirt. Theyfd build a frame on the sticks and then put the mud on. The chimney couldn't cathch fire till the house got old and the mud would fall off. When it got old and the mud got to fallin off, then they would be a fire. I've seen that since I been in Arkansas. "Sometimes they would get big rocks and put them inside the fire- place to take the place of bricks. You could get rocks in the forest. Furniture "Used to have ropes and they would cord the bed stead. The cords would act in place of springs. When you move you would have a heap of trouble because all that would have Id be undone and done up a gain. You have to take the cords out and them put it together again. The cords would be run through the sides of the bed and stuck in with pegs. "They used to have spinning wheels and looms. They made clothes »nd they made the cloth for the clothes and they spun the thread they made the cloth our of. They'd card and spin the thread. There's lots of other things I canft remember. War Memories "The Yankees used to come in and have the people cook for them. They'd kill chickens and geese and things. The old people used to take their horses out and tie them out in the woods.-- hiding them out to keep the Yankees from getting them. The Yankees would ride upf take a good horse and leave the old worn-out one# *• 290 "There nerer was any fighting round where I lived; None of my folks was soldiers in the war. Right After the War "I donft remember just what my folks did right after the war. They were field hands and I guess they did that * My mother wQrked in the field that18 all I know* Life Since the War "I have been in Arkansas a long time* I have been here ever aince I left Mississippi* My first narriage was in Mississippi. The second and last ones was in Arkansas —Forrest City. My second husband had been dead since 1921. I donft know that I count Reese. » We married in June and separated in September. He*s dead now, and I donft hold nothin1 against him. "lam not able to work now. I do a little fround the house and dig a little in the garden. I havenft worked in the field since way before 1921. I donft get no help at all from the Welfare. My daughter does what she can for me. I always have lived before I ever heard a- bout the old age pension and I suppose God will take care of me yet somehow. Cured by Prayer "I'm puny and no1 count. Aint able to do much. But I was crip- pled. I had a hurting in my leg and I couldn't walk without a stick. Finally, one day I went to go out and pick some turnips. I was visit- ing my son in Palestine. My leg hurt so bad that I talked to the Lord about it* And it seemed to me, he said fPut down your, stick.1 291 I put it down and I aint used it since* I put it down right thar and I aint used it since* God is a momentary God. God knowed what I wanted and he said, fPut down that sick*.* and I aint been crippled since* It done me so much good* Looks like to me when I get to talk- ing about the Lord* aint nobody a stranger to me. *I know I been converted but that made me stronger. My son is a siner* He knowed about how I was crippled. He said you ought use your stick* He didnft know what to think about it* Young folks don't believe because they aint had no experience with prayer and they donft know what can happen* ************ "I done told you all I know*. I don't want to tell you anything I donft know* If you donft know nothing, it is best tos-ay you don't* Everything which Orleana Finger states has the earmarks of being true. There are a great many things which she does not state which I believe that she could state if she wished* She evidently has a long list of things which she things should be unmentioned* She has two magic phrases with which she dismisses all subjects which she does not wich to discuss: HI donft remember that** *I better quit talking now before I start lying•* 30574 ,650 292 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed________ Molly Finley. Honey Greek 3& allies from Mesa, Arkansas Axq Born 186ft "My master was Captain Baker Jones and his pa was Joan Jones* Miss Marian was Baker Jones* wife* I believe the old man's wife was dead* "My parents1 name was Henry ("Clay11) Harris and Harriett Harris, They had nine children* le lived close to the Post (Arkansas Post}* Our nearest trading post was Pine Bluff* And the old man made trips to Memphis and had barrels sent out by ship* Ve lived around Hanniberry Creek* It was a pretty lake of water* Sane folks called it Hanniberry Lake* Ve fished and s waded and washed* Ve got our water out of two springs further up* I used to tote one bucket on my head and one in each hand* You never see that no more* Mama was a nurse and house woman and field woman if she was needed* I made fires around the pots and fteuded to mamafs children* "Ve lived on the Jones place years after freedom* I was born after freedom* Ve finally left* I cried and cried to letfs go back* Only place ever seem like home to me yet* Ve went to the Cummings farm* They worked free labor then* Then we went to the hills* Then we seen hard times* Ve knowed we was free niggers pretty soon back in them poor hills* "I was more educated than some white folks up in them hills* I went to school on the river* My teacher was a white man named Mr* Van Sang* "Mama belong to the Garretts in Mississippi* She was sold when she was about four years old she tole me* There had been a death and old mistress bought her in* Master Garrett died* Then she give her to her daughter* 2. 293 She was her young mistress then* Old mistress didnft want her to bring her but she said she might well have her as any rest of the children* Mama never set eyes on none of her folks no more* Her father, she said, was light and part Snjun (Indian)* "John Prior owned papa in Kentucky* He sold him, brother and his mother to a nigger trader1 s gang* Captain Jones bought all three in Tennessee* He come brought them on to Arkansas* He was a field hand* He said they worked from daylight till after dark* "They took their slaves to close to Houston, Texas to save them* Captain Jones said he didnft want the Yankees to scatter them and make soldiers of them* He brought them back on his place like he expected to do. Mama said they was out there three years* She had a baby three months old and the trip was hard on her and the'baby but they stood it* I was her next baby after that* Freedom done been declared* Mama said they went in wagons and camped along the roadside at night* "Before they left, the Yankees come* Old Master Jones treated them so nice, give them a big dinner, and opened up everything and offered some for them to take along that they didnfet bother his stock nor meat* Then he had them (the slaves) set out with stock and supplies to Texas* "Mama and papa said the Jones treated them pretty well* They wouldnvt allow the overseers to beat up his slaves* "The two Jones men put two barrels of money in a big iron chest* They said it weighed two hundred pounds* Four men took it out there in barrels and eight men lowered it* They took it to the family graveyard down past the orchard* They leveled it up like it was a grave* Yankees didn't get Jones moneyt Then he sent the slaves to Texas* 3* 294 "Captain Jones had a home in Tennessee and one in Arkansas* Papa said he cleared out land along the river where there was panther, bears, and wild eats* They worked in huddles and the overseers had gans to shoot varmints* He said their breakfast and dinner was sent to the field, them that had wives had supper with their families once a day, on Sundays three times*- The women left the fields to go fix supper and see after their cabins and children* They hauled their water in barrels and put it under the trees* They cooked washpots full of chicken and give them a big picnic dinner after they lay by crops and at Christmas* They had gourd banjos* Mama said they had good times* "They had preaching one Sunday for white folks and one Sunday for black folks* They used the same preacher there but some colored preachers would come on the place at times and preach under the trees down at the quarters* They said the white preacher would say, fYou may get to the kitchen of heaben if you obey your master, if you don't steal, if you tell no stories, etc*1 "Captain Jones was a good doctor* If a doctor was had you know some- body was right low* They seldom had a doctor* Mama said her coat tail froze and her working* But they wore warm clothes next to their bodies* "Captain Jones said, fYou all can go back on my place that want to go back and stay* You will have to learn to look after your own selves now tut I will advise you and help you best I can* You will have to work hard as us have done b'fore* But I will pay you*1 My folks was ready to fboard the wagons back to Jones* fazm then* That is the way mama tole me it was at freedom* It was a long time I kept wondering what is freedom? I took to noticing what they said it was in slavery times and I caught on* I found out times had changed just bffore I got into this world* *• 295 "Same things seem all right and some don't* Times seem good now but wait till dis winter* Folks will go cold and hungry again* Some folks good and some worse than in times b'fore*" Interviewer's CJouEoent Gets a pension check* o(X/32 #645 296 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Jenny ffinaey. Brinkley» Arkansas Age 74 plus "I was born In Marshall County, Mississippi* Born during slavery* I bflong to Master John Rook. He died during the Civil War* Miss Patsy Book raised me* I put on her shoes, made up her bed, fetched her water and kindling wood* "l$r parents named Catherine and Humphrey Rook* They had three children* "When Master John Rook died they divided us* They give me to Rodle Briggs* John and Lizzie was Master Johnfs other two children* He had three children too same as ma* My young master was a ball player* If d hear them talk* Ma was a good house girl* They thought we'd all be like fer* When I was three years old, I was the baby* They took ma and pa off keep the Yankees from stealing them* Miss Patsy took keer me* Ihen ma and pa cone home I didnft know them a tall* They say when they come back they went to Louzlana* then fbout close to Monticello in dis state, then last year they run fem to Texas* "Pa was jus* a faimer* Gfcran'ma lived down in the quarters and kept my sisters* I'd start to see feou Old gander run me* Sometimes the geese get me down and flog me wid their wings* One day I climbed up and peeped through a crack* I seen a lot of folks chopping cotton* It looked so easy* They was singing* "Betsy done the milking* I'd sit or stand fround till the butter cone* She ax me which I wanted, milk or butter* I*d tell her* 2. 297 She put a little sugar on my buttered bread* It was so good I thought* Sometimes shefd fill my cup up with fresh churned milk# "I et in the kitchen; the white folks et in the dining-room* I slepf in granny's house, in granny's bed, in the back yard* Granny's name was Y4untf Hannah* She was real old and the boss cook on our place* She learnt all the girls on our place how to cook* Kept one or two helping her all the time* It was her part to make them wash their faces every morning soon as they started a fire and keep their hands clean all the time er cooking* Granny wore her white apron around her waist all time* Betty would make them help her milk* They had to wash the cows udder before they ever milked a drop* Miss Patsy learnt her black folks to be clean* Every one of them neat as a pin sure as you born* •I was so little I couldn't think they got whoopings* I never heard of a woman on the place being whooped* They all had their work to do* Grandma cut out and made pants for all the men on the whole farm* "Old man Book raised near 'bout all his niggers* He bought whiskey by the barrel* On cold mornings they come by our shop to get their sacks* I heard them say they all got a drink of whiskey* His hands got to the field whooping and singing* The overseers handed it out to them* She women didn't get none as I knowed of* The paddyrollers run v em in a heap but Master John Book never let them whoop his colored folks* 'Hie lived six miles from Holly Springs on the big road to Memphis* Seem like every regiment of Yankee and rebel soldiers stopped at our house* They made a rake-off every time* They cleaned us out of something to eat* They took the watches and silverware* The Yankees rode up on our porch and one time one rode in the hall and in a room* Miss Patsy done run an9 hid* 3. 298 I stood about. I had no sense. They done a lot every time they come. I watched see what all they would do. They burnt a lot of houses. "A little white boy said, 'I tell you something if you give me a watermelon.' The black man give the boy a big watermelon. He had a big patch. The boy said, 'My papa coming take all your money away from you some night.' He fixed and sure 'nough he come dressed like a Ku Klux. He had some money but they didn't find it. One of the Ku Kluxes run off and left his spurs. The colored folks killed some and they run off and leave their horses. They come around and say they could drink three hundred fifteen buckets of water. They throw turpentine balls in the houses to make a light. They took a ball of cotton and dip it in turpentine, light it, throw it in a house to make a light so they could see who in there. A lot of black folks was killed and whooped. Their money was took from them. "The third year after the War ma and pa come and got me. They made a crop for a third. That was our first year off of Rook's place. I love them Rook's girls so good right now. Wish I could see them or knowd where to write. I had to learn my folks. I played with my sisters all my life but I never had lived with them. When pa come for me they had my basket full of dresses and warm underclothes, clean and ironed. They sent ma some sweet potatoes and two big cakes. One of them was mine. Miss Patsy said, 'Let Fannie come back to see my girls.' I went back and visited. Granny lived in her house and cooked till she died. I had a place with granny at her house. We went back often and we helped them after freedom. They was good white folks as ever breathed. There was good folks and bad folks then and still is. "Times is hard. I was raised in the field. I made seven crops here—near Brinkley—with my son. I had two girls. One teaches in Brinkley, *. 299 fourth or fifth grade; one girl works for a family In New York* My son fell off a tall building he was working on and toursted his head* He was in Detroit* Times is hard now* The young folks is going at too fast a gait* They are faster than the old generation* No time to sit and talk* On the go all the time* Hurrying and worrying through time* Hard to make a living*" 30383 300 Interviewer__________Zillah Cross Peel Information given by_______*Gate-eye» Fiaver_______________________ Residence___________Washington County, Arkansas____________________ *I was jes* a baby crawlinf fround on the floor ifren War come* said •Gate-eye* Fisher, w^o lives in a log fcouse covered with scraps of old tin, on *v>at is known as the old Bullington farm near Lincoln* His one room lag cabin is *down. in the bresh* back of t*>e barn and w^en new renters come on t^e place, t^ey just take it for granted that *Gate-eye* just belongs* He bothers no one* No floors, no windows just a door, a bed, stove and a table*. Yes and a lantern and a chair* *Tes mam, my mother, Caroline, belonged to t*e Ulster Dave Moore family* His wife, Kiss Pleanie, was a Reagan* Yes mam, they was good folks* fhen the *ir come, my pa, Harrison Fisher and my ma stayed on the place, Ulster Moore fcad lots of land and stock - and he and via folks went to Texas, nearly everybody did 'round vere, and he took some of vis fine stock with him but he called my pa and ma in and told tvem he wanted them tok stay on t*e place and take care of all the things* F& was boss over all tve slaves* I guess mosf all my ifrite folks Is dead* Hosf of t^em all buried down yan way to Ft. Smitv* One of Mister Moore's daughters, Hiss Mary, married Dr« Davenport and Miss Sinth( Cynthia) went to live wit* her** (The tfoores came from Kentucky and Tennessee and settled at Cane Kill* Washington County, about 182?# The Reagans cane about tfce same time* The first schools in the county were at Cane Hill)* "Tee »am, I guess all the colored folks that belonged to Mister Moore, but me, is dead* I guess# *Gate~eye* Fisher ~2- QQ J My mother, Caroline, stayed in t^e ^ouse nearly all tfce time and took care of Missyfs children, and wfcen they come ^ome from school s^eM *>ear tvem learn t^eir A B Cfs* T*at*s *ow come I can read and write* My ma taught mef out of an old Blue Back Speller* Yes mam, I learned to read and can*t write mucfc, jes my own name** Yes mam, I kinda be~ lieve in signs tvat *s *>ow come I wear t^is leather strap * round my wrist it keeps me from *>avinf rheumatism, neuralgia* Yes mam, it velps* I used to believe in signs a lot and I used to believe in wishes* I used to wis>> a lot of bad wishes on folks till one day I read a piece from New York and it said t**e bad wishes tfcat you made would come back to you wosser tv»an you wished, so I don*t wis* no more# I got scaled and don*t wish notT>inf to no body*1* *After tve War Ole Mister and Ole Missey called in my ma and pa and asked tvem if t*»ey wanted to still stay on t*re place or go some~ w^ere* fBout ten of us stayed© T*»en a w^ile after Mister Moore asked my pa if he wanted to go up on t*>e Tilley place •» 600 acres and farm it for Wfcat he could make* We, my pa and my ma and my sister Mandy, stayed t^ere a long time* T^en Mister Moore sold off a little ^ere and a little tVere and we moved up on the mountain wit* my sister and ver husband, Peter Doss, w^ere my ma died* T^en I went down to Mister Oscar Moorefs place*- he was my Missey* boy** *Yes mam, I did *avs a wife* I ^ad a rnos* worrysome time# It is a worrysome time wv>en a man comes to takes your wife rigvt away from you* Nofm, I don't ever want v>er to come back** "Ye8fm, I do my own cooking, and Ifve put up some fruit* I *ave a little mite of meat, a little mite of taters, a little mite of beans and peas* I get a little pension too** Gate-eye -3- 302 •These darkies today nearly allgpt wild* You canft tell *hat tvey are going to do tomorrow* They*s jes like everybody - some awful good and some awful bad*11 And in the tiny one room shack, of lugs and tin, no window, a swing door held by a leather strap, *Gate«»eye* does his cooking on a small wood stove* JL long bench holds a lantern with a shingly clean globe, a lot of canned fruit, dried beans and peas* T*e bed is a series of old bed springs* But *Gate«*eye" just belongs to the neighborhood, and every one feels kindly toward hinu He says he is se%enty«»one years, past* 30419 303 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Ellen Fitzgerald Age 74 Brinkley, Ark,, "Mama was named Anna Holes. Papa named Milias Noles. She belong to the Whitakers and he belong to Gibbs. Noles bought them both. They was both sold. Mother was born in Athens, papa somewhere in Kentucky, Their owners, the Noles, come to Aberdeen, Mississippi. "Grandma, papa's mama, was killed with a battling stick. She was a slender woman, very tall and pretty, papa told me. She was at the spring, washing. They cut a tree off and make a smooth stump. They used a big tree stump for battling. They had paddles, wide as this (two hands wide - eight or ten inches) with rounded- off handle, smoothed so slick. '1'hey wet and soap the clothes, put em on that block-tree stump and beat em. Rub boards was not heard of in them days. They soaked the clothes, boiled and rinsed a heap. They done good washing. I heard em say the clothes come white as snow from the lye soap they used. They made the soap. They had hard soap and soft soap, made from ashes dripped and meat skins. They used tallow and mutton suet too. I don't know what was said, but I recken she didn't please her mistress - Mrs, Callie Gibbs. She struck her in the small part of her back and broke it. She left her at the spring. Somebody went to get water and seen her there. They took her to the house but she finally died. Grand- pa was dead then. I recken they got scared to keep papa round then and sold him. 2* 304 "I was born first year of the surrender. Moster Noles told them they was free. They didn't give them a thing. They was glad they was free. They didn't want to be in slavery; it was too tied down to suit em. They lived about places, do little work where they found it, "We dodged the Ku Klux. One night they was huntin' a man and come to the wrong house. They nearly broke mama's arm pullin' her outen our house. They give us some trouble coming round. We was scared of em. We dodged em all the time, "I was married and had a child eight years old fore I come to Arkansas, I come to Brinkley first. I was writing to friends. They had immigrated, so we immigrated here and been here ever since. When I come here there' was two big stores and a little one. A big sawmill - nothing but woods and wild animals. It wasn't no hard times then. We had a plenty to live on. "My husband was a saw mill hand and a railroad builder. He worked on the section. I nursed, washed, ironed, cooked, cleaned folks houses. We done about right smart, I could do right smart now if white folks hire me,' "The night my husband died somebody stole nearly every chicken I had. He died last week. We found cat it was two colored men, I ain't needed no support till now. My husband made us a good living long as he was able to go. We raised a family. He was a tolerably dark sort of man. My girls bout his color," The two grown girls were "scouring" the floor. Both of them said they were married and lived somewhere else. 30896 3S84£ 305 Interviewer Mary D» Hudglns Person Interviewed Henry Fltzhugh Aged 90 Home Rooms at 209 Walnut street Several "colored* districts are scattered throughout Hot springs* On Whittington, within a block of the First Presbyterian Churchand St. Joseph1s Infirmary stand the Roanoke Baptist and the Haven Methodist ( both for colored)# Architecturally they compare favorably with similar edifices for whites* Their choirs have become nationally famous* Sunday afternoon concerts are frequent* Mid-week ones are not uncommon* At such times special sections are reserved for whites, and are usually filled* Visitors to the resort enjoy them immensely* Across the street a one-tine convent school has been converted into a negro apartment house* A couple of blocks up whittington, Walnut veers to the right* It is paved for seven 1 blocks* Fronting on concsete sidewalks are houses, well painted and boasting yards which indicate pride in possession* some are private homes, some rooming houses and some apartments* Porch flower boxes and urns are mostly of concrete studded with crystals* Benry Fltthuga Hadgina 306 Finding Henry Fitahugh wan't ao easy. f»e delivery boy at the corner chela atora "kaoaa everybody ia tha Balghboraood' according to a pass* r«by. Ha offered tha address «g£* That nuaber turned out to be an old, but atubataatlal and wall eared for two story house. Ringing tha bell repeatedly brought ao response. A couple of women In tha yard next door announced that to find Fitahugh one had to "go around back and knock oa tha last door on tha beck porch** This proceedure too brought no results. Another backyard observer offered tha suggestion that Fitahugh was probably down at tha restaurant eating* sohool had just bean dismissed. Two wall dressed aa ro children Balked along together, swinging their hooka* "Cab you tall ma where tha restaurant ia ?** asked tha Interviewer, stopping them* *Do you mean the colored restaurant?" one of the tot a asked, not a ah it of embarrassment 1b bar ¦anner, ao servility, ao resentment-—just aa ordinary qaaetlca* "It'8 right ever there." The restaurant proved to be large, wall lighted, scrupulously elaaa. Tables aere well spaced and quita a distance from tha counter, sunshine streamed In froa two directions* Fitahugh wee sitting Just outside talking to the boot-bleak* 3 Henry Fitzhugh Hudgins 307 "Yes, ma'am* i»s Henry Fitzhugh. can't work no more since I got hit by an automoble* Before that I had a shoe-shine plaoe myself* But I can»t work no more* Yes «um I gets the pension* I gets $10 a month* It*s not much, but I sort of get by. I«s &ot my room up at 209 and I gets my meals down here at the restaurant* Yes ma*am, pensions seem to be coming in pretty regular now* ueen in Hot springs a long, long tima* Come here in 1876* I remembers lots of the old families here, Wiiat yo say your name was ? Your Mother was a Dengler ? Sure, I remembers the Denglera* Mr* Dengler had a soda-water shop* I remembers him* Wham I first come, soon as I was able* I cleaned up for Ciptain Mallard* Cleaned up all along Central in that block he was in* How»d I come to Hot springs ? I was sick* I had rheumatism* Was down with it so bad the doctor had dona give me up. He'd stopped giving me medicine* But the lady I was working for, she run a hotel in Poplar Bluff* They put me on a stretcher and they put me in the baggage car and they brought ma clean on in to Hot Springs* They bathed me at the free bath house* I started pelting better right away* •Twasn't long efore I was well and able to work. I stayed right on here in Hot Springs* Heary Fltshugh Had,ina 808 Yea, aa*aa I*a all irkansas* I was bora near Little Rock/ Ain»t never been out of the state but twice. Then I didn't stay long* I worked on a farm that belonged to Mr* J.B. Header sea* He was an ancle to Mr* d'eroae Bender eon what was la t- e bank and Mr* Jethro Henderson what was a Judge* Ho* the war didn't bother us none* e wasn't afraid* We heard the shots, but it seemed Just like a whole lot of fire crackers to us* Guess we Just didn't have sense enough to be afraid* Fighting wedidNne&r pine Bluff----the Bax£ar*> Ware trouble* We seen the soldiers when they come through Kt. Pleas-nt* right smart bunch of them* They was Confederates* We didn't see none of the Yankees* My fether was killed during the war. ent off to help and never came back* My mother, she died when I was a baby* she was lying down in her cabin before the fire——— lying on the hearth* letting me nurse* The door was opea and a gust of wind blew her dress in the fire* she dropped me and she screamed and run out into the yard* Old Miss sew her froia the house* She grabbed a quilt and sts ted out* She got to ay mother and she wrap ed her in t e quilt ta smother out the fire* But ray mother done swallowed fire* She died* That's the story tjiey tell me* I was too llttke to know* 8 Henry ?Ita&ugb Mary Eadgiaa 309 I gttaas X was about el- ht mhm I vmnt Into tbe fields* Wbat'a that, pretty young ? I didn't go because tbey a«da me* X west becatme X wanted to be vith the man. esa't nobody around to play v Itto. we was the only family on the f&ra* It wae a pretty good sized far» and they had lota of ehlldrea. There vms : Iso sally aad iss Fanny and Kies ilia arid liiaa myrtle and Hies Hattie. Then there was four boys* St eyed on isitfc tbe folks tbra© ye&re aftar ttte surrender. Tbey treated me good and t ve ie whet X wanted* Treated m alee—very aiea— nay white folks* Then X went on down to Kexahall -—way down is Texas* Ifcere X worked for tbe al# sheriff* prove bis earriage for bi» and cleaned up around the yard* X worked for him a whole year then X went bt k to Arkansas and then isent mp la Missouri* taaa't tbera long before I ®et alak* Iwes working for a won** who bad a hotel* <&• was good to ma* eighty good aba itae* Yea ma'am. There hm beea loat chance a I baa bad to do more tban X baa. But I* a aort of satisfied* There»s been lota of enaa§ea la Hot springs since X cose* I used to know all the white folks and all the colored folka too* Can't do that today* ilaee has got too big* Joe Golden t Yea* X does—-I kao^a Joe* Ha used to itave a butcher eh op over oa &alvera* emits a maa, Jos was* X hasn't seea bin la a long time. Bon la be? Pretty good t That's fine* d leary Fltshuga Hudglnn Q±() I remembers Mc----1101004*8 Happy Hollow*" ( Hot springs nearest ap roach to e Coney Island In the earlier daya)« "I remembers thrt they used to fcava the old stage coech there what the Jtsnee and Younger brothers held up* Sort of broken down it was* but it v?as there* Lew, law, them was the times. 1*11 never forget when Allen Bonn* brought In the ne*s. Allen drove a sort of e hack* He oome oa into town arid he whipped up his horse sad he run ell over town telling about the hold-up* Allen lived just next door to here I does now*** Down the street passed a eolored woman* her h«a ' held high* Passing the porch where the a ed negro aan and the yourg white ftoinan sat talking she paused and gave what was suspiciously like a sniff* Fltzhugh grinned* "She's sanctified," he explained* "Did you ever hear of Tucky-Nubby ? He was an Indian* Bob Hu ley used to bring him to hot ;jprings every year* *hat Oiedlclae shows they used to have here* Ain't seen nothing like It lately* everybody knowed Tucky-Nubby. Lots of those medicine shows-—-free shows* used to come here* But Boa Hurley and Tueky-Nubay was the most liked* Yea, ma'an, X*m all alone now* \'y sinter narrled e asn a long* long time ago. she didn't live but n couple of years* I's had four children, one of then died when it was born. One died vhea it was t roe. One 1 ved until it was seven* One sen Henry Fitzhugi Hudgins 311 he lived to be grows* He went to the war* Got as far as camp* One day I got a word saying thot he was sick. I went but before I could get there he had died* That left rae alone* What* s thet? Been maried once ? I been married eleven times* But it was ten times too many* resides they is all dead, so you might say th t I»s been married only once* Yes, ma'am* Thank you ma*am* The quarter will come in powerful handy* ;ihen you tries to make out on $10 a month a little extra comes in powerful handy* Thank you ma'am* I. enjoyed talking to you, ma'am." -'OOO 312 Interviewer__________ Mrs, Bernice Bowden______________ Person Interviewed Mary fflagg______________ 1601 Georgia Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas 89 "Yesfm, I was here in Civil War days* I was bout twelve years old when Lincoln was elected* I remember when he was elected* I was big enough to weave and knit for the soldiers* I remember when the war started* Yes mafm — oh I remember so much* Saw all the soldiers and shook hands with em* Why I waited on the table when General Lee stopped there for dinner on his way from Mobile to meet Sherman* That was in Winchester, Mississippi where I was born* I worked in a hotel, yes mafm* I was raised up in a hotel, called em taverns in those days* I was born right in Winchester, Mississippi* Used to see the soldiers drill every day* If I could remember, I could tell you a heap of things* "My mistress* name was Mrs* Shaw* She took me away from my mother when I was four years old — taken me for her body servant* She learned me how to do housework and all kinds of sewin1 — cuttin1 and makin1* I done all the sewin1 for her family* "I never went to no school but Mrs* Shaw tried to teach me and she slapped my jaws many a day bout my book* WI married when I was fifteen just fore the war ended and I forgot everything I ever learned — yes mafm! I been married four times and they're all dead* I never married when any of em was livin1 like a heap of colored folks did* 2. OIk* 31,° "The Yankees come within fifty miles of nfeere we was livinf and then they burned the bridge and turned back* White folks never told us what the war was for but a old German man used to read the paper at the table — every battle they'd fight and when the Yankees would whip* Oh them was times then* If I could remember I could tell you a heap o€ things but my mind's gone from me* "Old master had about a hundred head of hands and old mistress had a cousin had five hundred* "White folks was good to me* My father was the carriage driver and old mistress used to carry me to church with her every Sunday* "I never seen no Ku KLux but I lived where they was, in Miss- issippi* That was a Ku Klux state* Yes raa'm* "I remember when General Lee come to Winchester you could hear the horses' feet a mile away, it so cold* "My great grandfather was a full blooded Indian* I've lived among the Indians in Mississippi and bought baskets from em* They lived all around us* Yes ma'm, I'm acquainted with em* Oh, I been through a little bit* "I started sewin' and weavin' when I was just big enough to reach the treadles* Used to sew for Mrs# Hulburt in Bolivar County, Miss- issippi* I remember she started to the Mardi Gras on a boat called the Mary Bell* It got burned and she had to turn back* I used to do a heap a sewin' • "Everythirigs changed now* People is so treacherous now* Chilef ain't nothin' to this younger generation* Now I'm tellin' you the truth* They ain't studyin' nothin' good* Sin and corruption all you see now* 314 "Last man I married was Elder Flagg. He was a preacher in the Baptist church and as good a preacher as I ever heard* They donft preach the Gospel now* "Well, I wish I could remember more to tell you, but itfs been a long time* I1!! be ninety if I live till the 4th of next Way." 30384 315 Interviewer Mrst Zillah Cross Peel Person interviewed Home Doc Flowers Lincoln, Arkansas Age 85? Everybody calls him Uncle Doc* His name is Doc Flowers, and he lives in the last house on a street that is just part of a road in the town of Lincoln, Arkansas* When you stop in front of the house you will find there is no path* One has to watch his step owing to the fact that there is a zig^zaggy branch hidden by the tangle of weeds* If old Aunt Jinney is on the porch she will say, "Sorry, honey, but de path done growed up*w Uncle Doc is six feet two and as strong as a lion. Whether he is 80 or if he is 90, he is young-looking for his age* "No'm lady, Pse jesf don1 know how old I is. Back in dem days didn't keep up with our ages* No record of the born* Yes'm I was a pretty good chunk of a boy when de war started*tt Doc belonged to Edward Choate, who lived on Barron Forks, near Dutch Mills in the Southwest corner of Washington County* Barron Forks is made up from Fly Creek and the River Jordan Creek* About 1849 Edward Choate came from Tennessee to Arkansas^where he h&d bought Aunt Marie «es#*wre and her £hree sons, Doc, Abe, and Dave* "Yes'm, we had a 100 acres or better all along the banks of de river and good valley land where we liaised corn, potatoes, wheat, oatjfes, anf fbacco* Master Choate had three sons^ recollect, Jack, Sam, and Win* *• 316 He had a lot of slaves* Some of dem was good, some was bad* An* old Mister Choate had a cat-a-nine-i****** He never did have to whup me, some of dem darkies did get whupped. Dar was one who was always dressing up in wimmins clothes and go walking down by de river* "My mother was Maria* She worked part time in de kitchen and part time in de field* My mother had three boys and I fmember one of my sisters was sold as a slave. We darkies had cabins all along de river bank* "During de War we all jesf stayed on de place* Mister Choate and Old Missy stayed too. After peace was made my mother and all of we went up to Prairie Grove to live* "Yes'm, I voted every chance I got. I voted for Harrison for President. NofmtI donft know which Harrison. Yesfm%I vote Repub- lican* "I canft say much for these young darkies these times* "I ben frounf some. I went to Caldwell, Kansasntwo times* Farm- ing is my occupation* Mow we jesf live. I get $10 a month from the state* Yesfm,that there Jinney is my vafe* Her mother Celia and she belonged to the Ballards of Cincinnati* *Nofm, I jesf can1 tell how old I is* I knotyT was quite a chunk of a boy when de War started* Me and Mister Win, one of Mister Choatefs boys, was 'bout de same age." (Winston Choate died in the spring of 1935 at the age of 94 years, according to a niece.) The Choate place down on Barron Forks is still owned by one of the Choates, a grandson of the first owner, Edward Choate* 3, 317 A granddaughter of Mr. Choate lives in Fayetteville and said that there are four or five graves on the old place where Negro slaves*were buried,, who belonged to her grandfatherj and mLi, n y> H 11 "l» the children on the place would never go near these graves* They thought they were haunted* So when one asks Uncle Doc how old he is he will say, "I know I was jesf a chunk of a boy v/hen de War started so I mus' be 'bout 83 nexf spring." Aunt Jinney, his wife, sat on the porch and just rocked back and forth while Uncle Doc was talking. She didn't speak while Doc was speaking. "Law, honey, I had good white folks. None of dein never struck their colored folks. No'ra. tie an' ray mother Celia belonged to Mister Ballard at Cincinnati. Old Missey's name was Miss Liza, an' she kept my ma in de house wid her to wait on her. Yes'm all de white folks always kept a little darkey in de house to wait on all of dam. Dem was good times ffo' de War* Yes'm good times - plenty to eat. Good times. I was je3f a baby crawling on de flof when de War come." The interviewer didn't ask Uncle Doc when and why he went to Caldwell, Kansas the two times. She knew that Uncle Doc, big and strong, took another Negro's wife away from him and ran off with her to Kansas and there left her. Laser he brought her to Arkansas. Jinney was his wife and took Uncle Doc Lack, but Gate-eye didn't take his wife back. Nor did the interviewer tell Uncle Doc that she had been to see old Gate-eye Fisher arid had heard the long ago story of Uncle Doc taking his wife, and v/h^t a worrysome time he had. 4. '} 818 In an old record marked "Miscellaneous" in the Washington County Courthouse at Fayetteville, Arkansas, one can find this Emancipation paper: "For and in consideration of the love and affection of my wife for my little Negro girl (a slave} named Celia, about two years old, I do by these presents henceforth and forever give to said Celia her liberty and freedom, and through fear of some mis- take, mishap or accident, I now hereby firmly bind myself, heirs and representatives forever in accordance with this indenture of emancipation^ "In testimony whereof witness my hand and seal this 26th day of January 1846• Signed Thomas B. Ballard Witnesses: Charles Baylor Sumet Mussett" Jinney, wife of Doc Flowers, is the daughter of the said Celia. "Yes'm," said Jinney, "Miss Liza, my old Missy, always had my mother right by her side all the time to wait on her# She were always good to all her colored folks. NoTm she'd never let anybody be mean to her colored folks." Jinney must have learned the art of house keeping from Miss Liza, for her little three-room home that she and Doc rent for $4 a month is spotless* Maybe the "path is ^rowed up v;ith v/eeds^ but one just can't blame that on Jinney. SU722 «a>v 3iy Int erviewer______________Miss Irene Robertson__________ Person interviewed Prances Bluker. Sdmondaon» Arkansas Age 77 *I was born the 25th day of December 1860 in Marshall County, Mississippi* Our owners was Dr. George Wilson and Mistress Mary* They had one son I knowed, Dr. Wilson at Coldwater, Mississippi* My parents was Viney Perry and Dock Bradley* *I never seen my pa* I heard about him since I been grown* He left when the War was going on and never went back* Mama had ten children and I am all that's living now0 Old mistress set my name and age down in her Bible* I sent back and my niece just cut it out and sent it to me so I could get my pension* I pasted it in the front of my Bible (on tM Ir; v r viewer_________________Mrs. Be mice Bowden ___________ L-erseu interviewed_________________Ida May KLuker___________ Route 6, Box 80, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 85 nI was born in slavery times in Clark County, Alabama* Glover Hill was the county seat* "Elias Campbell was old master* I know the first time I ever saw any plums, old master brought 'em. I 'member that same as yesterday* "I fmember the same as if ftwas yesterday when the Yankees come. We chillun would hide behind the door. Had on blue suits with brass buttons* 3o you see Ifm no baby* *I 'member my mother and the other folks would go up to the big house and help make molasses. Didn't 'low us chillun to go but we'd slip up there anyway* n01d missis1 name Miss Annis. She was good to us* *I didn't do nothin' but play around in the yard and tote wood. Used to tote water from the Wood Spring* Had a spring called Yfood Spring. "My mother was the cook and my grandma was the spinner. I used to weave after freedom. "I know the Yankees come in there and got a lot of fodder. They was drivin' a lot of cows. We chillun wDuld be scared of 'em—mama would be at the big house* "LJama belonged to the Campbells and papa belonged to Davis Solomon, and I know every Christmas they let him come to see mama, and he'd bring me and my sister a red dress buttoned in the back* I 'member it sane as if 'twas yesterday 'cause I was crazy 'bout them red dresses* 2* ij&O "1 used to hear the folks talkin* fbout patrollers. Yes ma'am, I heered that song fHun nigger run Paddyrollers will ketch you Jes1 ffore day*1 I know you've heered that song* "I heered papa talk about how he was sold. He say the overseer so mean he run off in the woods and eat blackberries for a week* WI guess we had plenty to eat* I know mama used to fetch us somethinf to eat from the house• Old missis give it to her. I know I was glad to get it. "When the people was freed they was so glad they went from house to house and prayed and give thanks to the Lord* nOur folks stayed right there and worked on the shares. MI never went to school but about two weeks. My papa was hard workin1, Other folks would let their chillun rest but he wouldn't let his chillun rest. He sure did work us hard. nYou know in them days people moved fround so much they didn't have time to keep up no remembrance fbout their ages. We didnft have no time to see fbout no ages—had to work. That's the truth.* til.* 4: DO t>w4 Interviewer Miss Irene Hobertson________ Person interviewed_______Wash ffordt Des Arc, Arkansas Age 73 or 75? "I was born close to Des Arc and Hickory Plains, seems like about half way* Mama's master was named Powell* Papa's master was Frank Ford* My parents was Fannie and Henry Ford* I was the oldest child* There was 6 boys, 4 girls of us* •'They didn't get anything after freedom* They kept on farming* They started working on shares* That was all they could do* If they expected anything I never heard ft* "I heard my mother say when I was small Papa was bouncing me up and down* He was lying on the floor playing like wid me* She looked up the road or 'cross the field one, and said, 'Yonder cone some soldiers* What they coming here for?' Papa put rae down and run* He hid* They didn't find him* It was soldiers from De Vails Bluff I judge* They made the colored men go wait on them and fi^ht too, if they run up on one* That is what I heard* "My father voted* He voted a Republican ticket* I do cause he did I reckon. I still vote. If the colored man could vote in the Primary it wouldn't be no better. They know better who to put in office, to run the offices right. I think it is right for a woman to vote* "I been farming all my life. I was a section hand much as six months in all ray life* I work at the veneer mills but they never run no more. 9 «?9^ I am having a hard time* I have high blood pressure* I can't pick cottonc I can't even get a mess of turnip greens» The Social Welfare helps me a little and I am janitor up town in two officest They hand me a little pocket change# It amount to maybe $2 a month, I had that job four years. If I could work I would be on the farm. I could make a living there * I always did. I had plenty on the farm* "Young folks donft take on no manners. The young folks take care of themselves. It is the old ones seeing a hard time now** so:; it 326 Interviewer_______Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Wash Ford Des Arc, Ark* Age 75? "One thing I remembers hearin' my folks talk bout. They had a leader hoeing cotton. His name was John. He was a fast hand. He hoe one row a piece and reach over and hoe the other. He'd get way ahead of the other hands. If they didn't keep up they get a whoopin. So he rest till they ketch up. Once he hoed up to a tree - big shade tree out in the field. He stuck his hoe in the root of the tree and a moccasin bit him bout that time. It bit him right on the toe. They took him up to the house but he died. "I was born close to Des Arc and Hickory Plains. My parents was Henry and Fannie Ford. Her master was named Powell and his master was named Frank Ford. I was the oldest 'mong six boys and four girls, My folks didn't git nuthing. I don't think they expected freedom much. They heard they goiner be free and knowed they was fightin*. They didn't know what free- dom be like. When they was set free at DeVails Bluff they signed up. They went back and went on farmin' lack nothin' ever happened. That what I heard em say when I was small boy. nI voted - Republican ticket, I believe. If I vote that what I vote. I reckon the women ought to vote. I still vote that is if I sees fit to vote. 2. 827 father run from the soldiers, He dicta1t go to the war as I ever knowd of. "I been farmin1 all my life till I got so nocount I ain't able to do no thin* no more. I worked on the section bout six months. I worked some off an on at the veneer mill till it shut down. I does a little janitor work now and the Welfare help me a little. "The present conditions good if a fellow able to pick cotton but if they run through with it times be hard in the heart of the winter cause they cainft git no credit. Times is hard for old folks." 30775 328 Interviewer Samuel S. Taylor Person interviewed Judia gortenberry ^ 712 Arch Street, Little Rock, Arkansas 75 Occupation Held hand______ L§^ytL y^4t'J^l4i A^- YliOV - *I was born three miles west of Hamburg in Ashley County, Arkansas, in the year 1859, in the month of October* I donft know just what day of the month it was* "Uy mother was named Indiana Slums and my father was named Burrell Slums* Uy father1 s mother was named Ony Slums, and my mother1 s mother was named Maria Young* I don't know what the names of their parents was* "My mother1 s master was named Robert Tucker* My father fs master was named Hartwell Slums* Their plantations were pretty close together, but I donft know how my father and my mother got together* I guess they just happened to meet up with eaeh other* The slaves from the two plantations were allowed to visit one another* After their marriage, the two continued to belong to different masters* Every Sunday* they would visit one another* My father used to come to visit his wife every Sunday and through the week at night* my mother had ten children* Houses •I was born in a log house with one room* It was built with a stick and dirt chimney* It had plank floors* They didnft have nothln1 much in the way of furniture—homemade beds, stools, tables* We had common pans and tin plates and tin cans to use for dishes* The cabin had one window and one door* 2. 829 Patrollers •I have heard my mother and father tell many a story of the paterolee* But I canft remember tham* My father said they used to go into the slave cabins and take folks out and whip them* They'd go at night and get 'em out and whip fenu How Freedom Came "I was so little that I don't know much about how freedom came* I just know he took us all and went scmewheres and made him a crop* Went to another man* Didn't stay on the place where he was a slave* He never got anything when he was freed* I never heard of any of the slaves getting anything* Schooling "I went to free school after the War* I just went along during the vacation when they weren't doing any farming* That is all the education I got* I canft tell how many seasons I went—four or five, I reckon* I never did go any whole season* I never had much chance to go to school* People didn't send their children to school much in those days* I went to school in Monti cello, but most of my schooling was in country schools* Occupation "When I first went to work, I picked cotton* That is at a place out near Hamburg* I picked cotton about ten or fifteen years* Then I went to town—Monticello* I washed and ironed* About forty-five years ago, I came to Little Rock, and have been here every since* Washing and ironing has been my support* I have sometimes cooked* 3. 330 Opinions "I don't know what I think about the young people# Seems to me they coming to nothing* Lot of them do wrong just because they got a chance to do it* I'm a Christian* I belong to the A. M. E.fs* You know how they do* Song 1 I belong to the band That good old Christian band Thank God I belong to the band* Chorus Steal away home to Jesus I ain't got long to stay here* There'll I'll meet my mother9 My good old Christian motherf Mother, how do you do; Thank God I belong to the band* I can't remember the music* But that's an old song we used to sing 'way back yonder* I can't remember any more of the verses* You got enough anyhow** ^o,ni~ #713 331 Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Sana Poster Age 80 1200 N# Magnolia, Pine Bluff, Arkansas "Yesfm, I was born in time of slavery**-seven years before surrender * Nofm, I wasn't born in Arkansas* Born in CLaiborne Parish, Louisiana* *I remember hear inf the big gxna shoot* I was small and I didn't know what it was only by what they told me* "My parents belonged to the Harts* My mother ran off and left me, a year-old baby* "I remember better when I was^ young than I do now# "After I got big enough—you know, a little old nasty somethin* runnin* around in the yard-rafter I got big enough, they took me :in the house to rock the cradle^ and I stayed there till I was twenty-three* I would a stayed longer but they was so cruel to me* "I didnft know nothinf* I run off and stayed with a colored preacher and his family not far away* You know I was crazy* One day the preacher said some of his members was objectin1 to me stayinf there and he was goin1 to tell ray white folks where I was* And sure enough, he did, and one morning I was out in the field and I saw the son-in-law cominf* So I went back and worked for him and his wife* "Me? All I did do was farmint when I was young* "Oh, I been in Arkansas fbout fifty years* My oldest boy was fourteen when I come here and he is sixty-four now* "No, honey, I canft cook now* Ifd turn it up* I used to cook* Itfs a poor dog that wonft wag its own tail* 2< *A11 I know is I had a hard time* I been married three times* Ify last husband was a preacher and he was so mean I left him* I told him if all preachers was like him, hell was full of ,em* nI went to Chicago and lived with my son a while but I didn't like itt so I come back here and I been here right in the yard with Mrs* O'Neal eight years washin' and ironin'-^-anything come to hand* "Now if there's goinf to be a death in my family, I can see that 'fore it happenst I was out in the potato patch one day and it started to rain and I come in and soraethin1 just bore down on me and I started to cry* I didn't know why* I thought, f0h, Lord, is somethin1 goin' to happen to my son?' Bat instead it was my grandson* He got killed that evenin'** 332 ' «L FOIELQRE SUBJECTS Name of Interviewer Mrs» Bernice Bowden Subject Birthmarks Story - Information (If not enough space on this page, add page) ••I know I marked one of my babies with beer* It was f cause I wanted some beer and couldnft get it* And when it was born it had a place on the back of its neck looked like beer and she just foamed at the mouth* And when she was about a week old I got some beer and give it to her with a teaspoon and she quit foaminS "And another time there was a boy on the place had a finger that the doctor had done took the bone out. He and I used to love to rassle (wrestle) and one day he said, f0h> Emma, you hurt my finger.f And like a fool, you know I took his hand and just rubbed that finger * And do you know, when my baby was born it had six fingers on each hand** This information given by Buna Foster ( C ) Place of residence 1200 N* Magnolia Street* Pins Bluffs Arkansas Occupation Laundress__________________Agp 80 333 884 Interviewer________________Mrs* Bernice Bowden_______________ Person interviewed Ira ifoster 2000 W* Eureka Street, Pine Blufff Arkansas Age 76 "I was born in slavery because when the people come back froaa the War I was a pretty good sized yellin' boy when freedom come* "I heerd fem tell in1 'bout my young ssaster ccmin' back from the War* "Yes ma'am, I was sure born In Arkansas; I won't tell no lie 9bout that* «My mother1 s old master was named Foster and after she married aha belonged to Hezekiah Barsey* "She was born in Alabama and > she said she was pretty badly treated* "She was the cook and then she was the weaver and the spinner* "I never have been to school* Never did learn nothin'* My father put me to work soon as I was big enough* "I always done farm work all my life till 'bout twenty years ago as near as I can come at it* I went to saw mill in1 and I didn't do nothin1 but manufacture lumber* I worked for the Camden Lumber Company eighteen years and never caused vem a minute's trouble* "If I just had enough to live on I wouldn't do a thing but just sit around 'cause I think I done worked my share* Why, some of the white folks say, 'Foster, you ought to have a pension of thirty or forty dollars a month*f And I say, 'Why?1 And they say, ' 'Cause you look just like a darky that has worked hard in this world*1 "I suffers with the rheumatism in my right leg clear up and down* Seems like sometimes I can't hardly get around*" 30865 F0LKL0BE SUBJECTS "35 Name of interviewer Mrs* Berniee Bowden Subject ____________Songs of Pre-War Days__________________ Story ~ Information (If not enough space on this page, add page) * 'You may call me Baggedy Bat fCause I wear this raggedy hat, And you may think I'm a workin1 But I ain't*f I used to hear my uncle sing that* That's all the words I can remember** This information given by Ira Foster ( ) Place of residence______2000 W» Eureka, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Occupation_________________Hone Age 76 ,,,,,,.,., . m 336 Interviewer Samuel S» Taylor Person interviewed Leonard Franklin Temporary: 301 Bidgeway, Little Rock, Arkansas Age 70 Permanent: Warren, Arkansas .........L^LLiU^x ^ J(J&pi*sC ^(^