Untitled Section 001

A Folk History of Slavery in the United States From Interviews with Former Skives TYPEWRITTEN RECORDS PREPARED BY THE FEDERAL WRITERS PROJECT .4 1936-1938 ASSEMBLED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS PROJECT WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SPONSORED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS Illustrated with Photographs WASHINGTON 1941 SLAVE NARRATIVES

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VOLU~ II ARKANSAS NARRATIVES PART 3 Prepared by the Federal Writers Project of the Works Progress Administration for the State of Arkansas

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INFORMANTS Gadson, Charlie 3. Gaines, Dr. D. B. 2 Gaines, Mary 7 Gant, William 11 Genes, Mike 15 Gibson, Jennie Wonaly 17 Gill, 3araes 19 Gillam, Cora 27 Gillespie, ~T. N. 34 Glass, Will 38 Glenn, Frank William 42 Glespie, Ella 44 Golden, Joe 47 Goodricige, Jake 53 Goodson (Goodrum), John 56 Govan, George 63 Grace, Julia 65 Graham, Charles 67 Graham, 3~arnes 70 Grant Marthala 71 Graves, Wesley 73 Gray, Ambus 77 Gray, Green 80 Gray, Neely (Nely) 82,84 Green, Henry (Happy Day) 97,90 Greene Frank 102 Greene, George 104 Gregory, Andrew 112 Griegg, Annie 113 Guess, William and Charlotte . 117 Guidon, Lee 119 Harris, Mary Harris, Rachel Harris, William Harrison, William Hart, Laura Haskell, Hetty Hatchett Matilda Hawkens, John G. Hawkens, Lizzie Hawkins, Becky Hawkins, G. W. Hays, Eliza Haynes Tom Haywood, Joe Hervey, Marie E. Hicks, Phillis Hicks, Will Higgins, Bert Hill, Annie Hill, Clark Hill, Elmira Hill, Gillie Hill, Harriett Hill, Hattie Hill, Oliver Hill, Rebecca Brown Hill, Tanny Hines, Elizabeth Hinton, Charles Hite, Ben Hodge, Betty Hollornon Minnie Holloway, H. B. (Dad or Pappy) Holly, Pink Holmes, Dora Hopkins, Elijah Henry Hopson, Nettie Horn, Molly Horton, Cora L. House, Laura Howard, Pinkey (Pinkie) Howell, Josephine Howell, Pauline (Pearl) Hudgens, ~IOlly HUff, Charlie Huff Louvenia 177 179,181 183 185 190 193 195 202 205 209 212 221 227 229 231 235 237 238 241 247,249,250,251 252 256 258 262 264 267 272 273 276,279 281 282 285 337 287 306 307 308 317 318 321 325 326 339 341 345 347 349 Hadley, Linley 127 Hall, Anna 129 Hamilton, Ellie 131 Hamilton, Josephine 133,136 Hamilton, Peter 137 Hampton, Lawrence 139 Hancock, Hannah 142,147 Haney, Julia E. 149 Hankins, Rachel 154 Hardridge, Mary fane 157,160 Hardy, O. C. 161 Hardy, Rosa 163 Harper, Eda 164,166,167 Harris, Abram 168 Harris, Betty 176

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351 357 Ishoni, Cornelia Island, Jack and Talitha 379 380 389 ifuggins, Anna Huhn , Margret Hunter, John Hunter, William Hutehinson, Ida Blaokshear 359 382 367 369 Island, Mary Isom, Henrietta 391

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Frontispiece ILLUSTRATIONS The Old South

[Interview with Gadson, Charlie] 006 001

33922 ~ :1 - ~ Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Charlie Gadaon,~Brink1ey,Arkaxisaa ~ ~L- I wa8 born in Barnwell County, &uth Carolina, My parents name was lane GadSOfl, Aaron Gadson. My mother master was Mr. Owens. That is all I ever knowed bout him. My father s master was Rivers and Harley Gadson, They said they was to get somethingbut they moved on. At the ending of that war the President of the United States got killed. They wouldn t knowed they was free ii~ they thi t made some change. I t know what made them th ink they would get something at freedom less somebody told them they would, . I work at the oil mill and at sawmiliing. I been fannin mostly since I been here, I got kidney trouble and rheumatism till I ain t no count. I own a house and lot in Brinkley.

[Interview with Gaines, Dr. D. B.] 007 002

2 :i~ 0665 Interviewer ~ 8a~sie1 S. ~a~y or~~ Person interviewed ~. D. B. Gaines ~~ThT2b r~3?d~ ff1~ ?e~ ti~le fl thc,~ A~rICa~aB Age_~~1175 ~ ~ ~ ~. ~ .m ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 0 I was born in 1863 and am now seventy~.tive years old. You aee~ therefore, that I know nothing experimentally and practically about slavery. nI was born in South Carolina in lawrence County, and my father moved away from the old place before I had any recollection. I rmembsr nothing about it. My tather said his master s nana was Matthew Thinter~ *1 was naaed for my father a master a brother, Dr. Bluford Oaina. My nai~ is Doctor Bluford Gaines. 0f course, I am a doctor but my n~ is Doctor. My father s family moved to Arkansas, in 1882. 8ettled niez Morrilton, Arkansas. I myself cei~ to Little Book, Arkansas, in 1885, October eighth, Worked in the hc~a of white twiilies for ~y board and entered Philander ~nith College October 8 1885, Continued to work with Judge ~nith of the AXkWI8&5 3iprsme Court until t graduated trcin Philander ~aith Collegs. After graduating I taught school and was elected Assistant Principal of the Little Rock Negro High 8chool in 1891. 8erved thrs years. Accuailated sufficient money end went to Ilaharry )~dioal College, Nashville, Tennessee. Graduated there in 1896. Practiced for flys years in the city of Little Rock. Entered perD~nently upon the ministry in 1900. Was called to the Mcunt Pleasant Baptist iurch where I have been pastoring for thirty nine years the first &inday in next May.

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2, ~The first real thing that made i~ switch froa the ndicine to the ministry was the deep cal . of the ministry gave ~ more interest in the Gospel than the profession of n~dicine furnished to ~. In other words, I discovered that I was a real preacher and not a real doctor, Touching slavery, the white people to whcst my parents belond were tolerant and did not allow their slaves to be a~xaed by patrollere and outsiders. My mother s people, however, were sold from her in very early lite and sent to A1ab~. My mother s maiden na~ was Earriet ~uith. ~ie o~ trois South Carolina too. Her old master was a aDith. My mother end father lived on adjoining plantations and by permission of both overseers, my father was permitted to visit her and to marry her even before frsedcm, Out of regard tor my father, his master bought my mother tro~ her master. I think my father told me that the old master called ~hem all together and announced that they were free at the close of the Jar. Right after freedom, the first year, he remained on the farm with the old master. After that he moved away to Greenville County, South Carolina, and settled on a farm, with the brother.-in-lav of his old master, a men named Squire Bennett. He didn t go to war. ~There was an exodus of colored people from South Carolina beginning ab~it 1880, largely due to the Ku Klux or Red Shirts. They created a ri~i of terror for colored people in that state, B. joined the exodus in 1882 and came to Arkansas where from reports, the outlook seeemd better for him and his family. Re had no trouble with the Ku flux in Arkansas. Re maintained himself here by farming.

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3. 4 Opinlon flIt is my opinion that from a racial standpoint, the lines are beine drawn tighter due to the advancement of the Negro people and to the lticreaeed prejudice of the doxnixiant raee Theee lines will continue to t Ighten wit il they sonehow under God are broken.. We believe that the Christian church la slowly but 8urely creating a helpful sentiment that will in time prevail among all men. *It appears from a governmental standpoint that the nation is doo~d sooner or later to Cra8h, Possibly a changed torm of government is not far ahead. Thi8 18 due to two reasona : ( 1 ) greed, avarice and diahone sty on the part of public people; (2) race prejudice, le believe that the heads of the national government have a far vl8ion. t~e policies had they been carried out in keeping with the mind of the Pre ident, would have worked wonders in behalf of humanity generally. ~t diahonesty and greed of those who had the carrying out of these policies has destroyed their good effe t and the fine intentions of the President who created them It looks clear that neither the 1~mocratic nor the Republican party will ever becon~ sufficiently morally righteous to establish and maintain a firi~t~.elase humanitarian and unselfish government. flIt is my opinion that the younger generation is headed in the wrong direction both morally and spiritually. This applies to all races, And this fact must work to the undoing of the government that must soon fall into their hands, for no government cari well exist founded upon graft, greed, and dishonesty. It seems that the younger group are more demoralized than the younger group were two generations ago. Thus the danger both to church and state. Unless the church can catch a f ir~r grip upon the younger group than it has, the outlook le indeed gloomy,

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4. 5 We are so far away frcm the 8ltuation ot trouble in Germany, that it Is difficult to know what it is or should be~ ~it one thing must be observeda.~.that any wholesale persecution of a whole group of people must react upon the persecutors. There could no cause arise which would justify a governmental power to make a wholesale sweep of any great group of people that were weak and had no alternative, That gov~rrinient which settles its affairs by force and abuse shows more weakness than the weak people which it abuses0 We need not think that we are through with the job when we kill the weaker man, No cause is sufficient ror the destruction of seven hundred thousand people, and no per8ecutor is 8afe from the effect8 of his own persecution. Interviewer 8 Gominent The house at 1720 Iz.ard Is the last house in what would otherwise be teriued a white block. There appears to be no friction over the matter. Note that if you were calling Dr. Gaines by his professional title and his first name at the same time, you would say Dr. ~ctor Bluford Gaines, He has attained proficiency in three professions-..-teaching, medicine, and the ministry. Dr. Gaines is poised in h18 bearing and has cultured tastes and surroundlngs neat cottage, and simple but attractive furnishings. He selects his Ideas and words carefully, but dictates fluently. He knows what he wants to say, and what he omits is as significant as what he states.

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5. G He is the leader type~big ot body, alert of mind, and dominant, It 18 said that he with two other x~n dominated Negro affaira in Arkansas for a considerable period of time in the past. He does not give the impression of weakness now0 Despite his education, contacts, and comparative affluence, however, his interview resembles the type in a number of respects ..the type as I have found it,

[Interview with Gaines, Mary] 012 007

30572 ~ #648 Intex~v1ewei ,~ Mj.sLr.ne Bobertssa ~ ~ Perioa int,rvieisd ~ M~ry aino.~ Brinkley 4zkansa. : ~ ~ 1872 ~ ~ -~ ~ _ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ _ . ~ ~ ~ WI wai born In Courtlend, flabe~. Mother was twelve years old at the first of the iurrender~ Grandfather was a South Caro1ii~1aii. laster Barri. bought him, two more his brothera and two sisters and his mother at one t1n~ He wa~ real African. Grandma on mother ~ ~ ~ dark Indien. ~ie heil white hair nearly straight. I have aune of it now. Mother wea lighter. That is ithere I geti my light color. X~ater Harris sold mother and grandma. Mother said ~he wai tat, tall / strong lookin girl. Master Barria let a Negro trader have grandma, mother an~d her three brothera. They left grandpa. Maiter Earn. told the nigger traders not divide grandma from her children. Ho didn t believe in that. He was letting them go from their father. That mai .u ~i iorrow for them to bear. That iraa in Alabama they was auctioned off. Master Harris livd in Georgia. The auctioneerer held mother i ax~.a up, turned her all around, made her kick, run, jump about to aee hom nimble and quick she was. K. aelci this old w~an can cook. ~e has ben a good worker in th. rteld. Shs e a good cook. They sold ber off cheap. Mother brought a big prie.. They caught on to that. The man nor ~man wasn t good to theme I forget their nunei ihat bou~it them. The nigger tradrs run her three brothers on to X.t..ia.ippi. The youngest one died in Xiaaia.ippi. They never seen the other two or heard of them till after frs.dem., They .wnt back to Georgia. All of them wsnt back to their old haie placs.

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2, In Alabama at thiB new master ~ hone mother wa~ nursing. Grandma and another old w i,an wa~ the cooke, Mother went to the.,..r little house and told them real low ~he had the baby and a strange man in the house said, Ii that the one you coiner let me have? The man said, Yea, a goiner leave in the morning b fore tinie2. The new master come stand around to see when they went to sleep, That night he stood in the chimney corner. There was a little window; the moon throwed his shadow in the roc~, They said I sure do like my new master. Another said, I sure do. The other one said, This is the best place I ever been they so good to us. Then they suns a verse and prayed and got q~uiet. They heard him leave, seen his shadow go way, Heard his house door squeak when he shut his door. Then they got up easy and dressed, took all the clothes they had and. slipped out They walked nearly in a run all night and two more days They uldn t carry much but they had some meat and. meal they took along. Their grab nearly give out when they come to some ~amp~ Somebody t old them, This I s Yankee camps. They give them something to eat, They worked there a while. One day they took a notion to look about and they hadn t gone far fore Grandpa Harri s crabbed grandma, then in ima, They got to stay a while but the Yankees took them to town and Master Harris come got them and t ook them back. Their new niaster come too but he said his wife said bring the girl back but let that old woman go, Master Harris took them both back till freedom. Then freedom come folks shout and knock down things so glad they was free Grandpa come back. ~ta8ter Harri s said ~ You. can bave land if you can get anything to work. Grandpa took his bounty he got when he left the army and bought a pair ot rmiles. He had to pay rent the third year but till then he got what they called giving all that stayed a start,

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3. 9 Grandma waa 1~ariah and grandpa wa~ Ned Harria, The two boys ccii~ back said the baby boy died at Selma, Alabama. Grandpa talked about the War when I waa a child. He ~a1d he waa In the Battle of Corinth, Misaissippi. He said blood run. shoe mouth. deep in places. He didn t see how he ever got out alive. Grandma and mama said they was glad to get away from the oamps~ They looked to be shot several times. Colored folks is peace loving by nature, They don t love war, Grandpa said war was awful. My mother was named Lottie0 One reason mother saId she wanted to get away frcm their new master, he have a hole dug out with a hoe and put pregnant women on their stomach, The overseers beat their back with cowhide and them strapped down, She said cause they didn t keep up work in the field or they did.n t want to work. She didn t know why. They did.n t stay there very long. She didn t want to go back them, My lire has never been a hard one ~ I have always worked. Me and my husband run a cafe till he got drouned, Since then I have to work harder, I wash and iron, cook wherever some one comes Ibor ~ When I was a girl I was so much like mother- a fast, strong hand iii the field, I always had work9 Mother said, sat the beatis and greens, pot-~liquor and sweet milk, make you fat and lazy. That was what they put in the children s wooden trays in slavery. They give the men and women meat and the children the broth and dumplings, plenty molasses. Sunday mother could cook at home in slavery if she d tend to the baby too. All the hands on Harrises place et dinner with their family on &~nday. He was fair with his slaves. For the life of n~ I can t see nothing wrong with the times, Only thing I see you an t get credit t o run crops and folks all trying to shun farzrting~

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When I wai on a terni I dearly loved it, It the place to raise young black and white both~ To un and cars rained the country. Interviewer a Ccs~nt Owns two houaes in among white people. 4. 10 H

[Interview with Gant, William] 016 011

30805 . Interviewer~~ MiaaIreneRobertson~~ . Person interviewed a - ~ - !iW* ! L~.* 7OX~2Ut !i.tY1 ~ 4~atieae ~ ~ - u Age~~ 101 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ -~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I was one hundred and one years old last Saturday (1938) I was born in Bedford County, middle Tennessee. My parente names was J udy and Abraham Gant. They had the saine master. They had three boys and two girls. Our owners was J im Gent and lizabeth Gent. Ma bad seven children, four gale and three boys. le called her Miss Betsy. ~im Gent owned seven hundred acres of good land In one body and scme ~re lend s~~ere else. My young masters end mistresses was: Malindy, 3ennie~ Betsy, Mary, Jim, 701m, Andy. They had twenty..five or thirty slava I knowed. H. was pretty good to his slave.. He didn t whoop much. Give em three or four licks. He fed em ai . well. We had warm clothes in winter. RI never seen nobody sold. My brothers and sisters was divided out. Mise Betey wae my young mistress. I could go to see all my folks. I never seen no hard times in my life. I had to work or be oa.U.ed lazy. I loved to work. I been in the field when the eun cane up and got part my ploughing done. Go back to the house and eat and feed my mule ~ rest around in the shade. Folks didn t used to dread work so bad like they do now. I lay do~n and re8t in the heat of the day. They had big shade trees for us niggere to rest under, eat under, spring water to drink. I d plough till emack dark I couldn t see to get to the barn. We had lighted ~ote to feed by. The feed be in the troughs and ~ter in the big trough in the lot ready. My eupper would be hot too. It would be all I could eat too. Tee, I d be tired ~it I could sleep till next niorning.

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8. 12 w. had big todoos along over the c~uitry. Lilt. and blask could go SCIfl tiI OB. Picnics and preachings inoatly. what I went to. Sc~t1n~aa it waa to a house covering, a oorn sirneking, a corn shelling, . or log rolling. Is went on hunts at night sc~. Se.aay (saucy) Negro.. got the most licks. I never was sassy. I never got b~it a mighty tew licks from nobody. le was alaves and. that is about aU tosay. . 1 learned. to fiddle after the fiddler on the place. Uncle ~im was the fiddler. Andy Jackson, a Whit. boy, raised him. He learned him to read and write in alavery. Mter alavery I went to learn from a Negro man at night. I learned a little bit. My master wouldn t cared if ~e had learned to read and write but the white tolka had tuition school. Scme had a teacher hired to teach a tew of them about. I could learned if I d had or been round somebody knowed something. He read to us aonm. Es r~ad places in hie Bible Anything we have and ask him. le didn t have booka and papers. I loved to play my riddle, call figurs8, and tell every one what to d~o. I didn t take stock in reading and. writing after the tar. My parente had the nax~ of being a good set of Negroes. ~as wae raleed by folks named Morrow and pa by folks nawad Strahorn. When ma was a little gal the Morrowe brought her to Tenneuse. My parente both raised in South Carolina by the Morrowa and Strehorna. I was twenty y ars old in th War. They had a big battle seven or eight miles frcei our homes. It started at daylight Sunday morning and lasted till Monday evening. I think it was Bragg arid mel. The North ihooped. It was a roar end shake and we could hear the big guns plain. It was in Hardin County clos. to Savannah, Tennessee. It was thies to be scared. We was ail diatreusd, My master died, l ft her a widow.

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z ~ J. We tanned, made thirty or tor~y acres of wheat, seventy-.five acres of oata, so~ rye. I pulled fodder ail day and take lt dowi~ at night while the dew would keep it in the bundle. Haul it up. We was divided out when the War was on, Somebody killed Master Jim Gant. He was murdered In his own house, They never did know who done it. They had two boys at hcn~. One went vi sit ing. They knocked her and the boy senseless . It was at night . . They was all knocked In the head0 will Strahorn owned x~y wife. He was tolLerable good to his Negroes. ~dmond Gant was a black preacher in slavery. He married us. He married iii in white folks yard. They c~ out and looked at us marry. I had to ask my master and had to go ask fer her then0 Oar children was to be Strahorn by name. Will would own them cau~se my wife belong to him. My first wife had five girls and three boys. My wife died, I left. both my two last wive8. I never had no more children but them eight. Freedom..-~my yoi~ng master corne riding up behind us. We was going in dragging our plougha. He told us lt was freedom. The Yankees took every- thing. We went to ~irray County to get my horse. I went off the next day. The Yankees stayed in Lawrence County. The Yankees burnt Torn ~eenfield out. Torn and Thu had joining farms. They took everything he had. Took his darkies all but two girls, He left. Yini was good and they never went bout him. ~Tini stayed at hcane, I went over there, He put me on his brother s place, WI come to Arkansas by train. I come to fackson, Tennessee, then to Forrest City, brought my f arnlee. My baby child is grown and married, The Ku Klux never bothered n~. It was a mighty little I ever seen of them

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4. :14 I never have had a hard time. I have worked hard, I been ploughing, hoeing, cradling grain, picking cotton all my lite. . I love to plough and cradle grain. I love to work. There Is a big difference now and the way I was raised p. They used to be whooped and made mind. They learned bow to work. Now the t line s run away fromi the people They used to buy ihat they couldn t rai se in barrels. Now they buy it in little dabs. I ain t used to it. White folks do as they pleases and the darkies do as they can. Everybody greedy as he can be it seem like to ins. Laziness czning on more end more every year as they grow up. I ain t got a lazy bone in me. I m serving and praising lay Lord every d~ay, getting ready to go over in the next world.

[Interview with Genes, Mike] 020 015

305b9 15~ ~ ~ ~:3~ Interviewer ~ Mi$alreneRoberteon. ~ ~- ~ ----a ~ \.~T Person interviewed . Mike Gen a ~ ~ ~ s ~ ~-~ ~~~1~~ ~ T ~ _ ~ 1-1 ~ 13 ~ ~ ~! ~ly G~rove ATr~ic. . Age72 . i: heard folke talk is ai . I know bout slavery. I wac born in Arkanea$. My mother wac Sara Jane Whitley. My father wac _~ ~ Genes. My mother came here from Tennes300 wid Henderaon Sandere. I waa raleed on the Danoan place. My mother raised ue a heap like old timea. I got fire tongs now she had. She made aeli eakee and we had plenty milk. I got her old pot hooica too. She cooked cracklin bread in the winter and. blaek walnut bread the ~ aame way. We made palinga and boarda for the houeee and barna. Jee gradually we gittin away from all that. Timea is changing co faat. I heard em aay in alavery they got em up fore day and they worked all day. Some dIn t have much elothea I can remember three me~i twisting plow linee. They made plow linee. s ~1 vote 1f I have a chance, but I really don t care bout it I t ~ know how to keep up to vote like it ought to be. The young generation may change but if they don t they air a knock out They do jee anyway and everyvray. They t t eave and eain t cave lt look like, way we got thinge now. Polka don t x alee nothin and have to buy co mach .lvin ie hard. Folka all dom fine long ai the cotton la to pick. Thie la two reconetruetione I been through. Folke got ueed to work

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2. after that other one and I gue~~ they hav to get used. to work this time till it get better. I don t knw what eauze~ this spell oi~ hard time3 after the wan.

[Interview with Gibson, Jennie Wormly] 022 017

30397 ~ p653 Interriewsi ~ ~ ~j~ ~~ ia R~bertaon ~ : ~ ~ r--*-i - i---_ . . . _ -..__~_j-I ~ _tm i * u ~_ia_~~ ~ ~ u~ t ..J.. ~ _U ~ Person intrn1ewd~ennis WoTi~ ~ G~Lba~ Bisco. a~aaa.~ ~ Age~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ wGran~aa was Pheobe teat. ~ waa Zennie Weat. Maaa waa a littlo girl ehen the CIVIl War co~ on. She told how acared her uncle waa. Eo d~1dn t waiit to go to war. Ihn they would be coaing if he ~ow it or ~et glinlp8e of the Yenkee soldisre, he d pick up my niepta. ~ie was a baby. He d run toi a quarter ot a mile to a great big tree dom in the field way back o:t the place off the road. He never had to go to war. ~ said ehe was little litt she was scared at the sight of them clothe. they wore. Ifrm~ s and grendiiia s owners 1i~ed at Yickebuxg a lot of the tine ~t ~ere that was at Washington Oowity, Mississippi. They had lots of alavea. Grandma was a midwife and doctored all the babies on the place. ~ said they had a big rout ih re they was aM a old woman kept thee. Th.y et milk for breakfast and butterailk and clabber tor auppex. They always had bread. l or dinner they had meat boiled and one other thing like cabbage, anA the children got the pot licajior. It was brought in a cart and poured in wooden trough.. They had gourds to dip it out with. They had gourde to drink their cool spring water with. ~De1ylight would find the hands in the fisid at work. Granthia said they had meat and bread and coffee till the war cc~ on. They had to have a re~ilar neal to work on in the i~rning. RGrandaa said their s~thing to eat got ~i~ity aliw in war ti~a and kept setting elii~er and ali~r. They had plenty eorgbu~ ai . the tim.

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2. 18 Them troughs itaa hewed oet of a log and wae washed and hung in the sun till next mealtima. They cooked in iron pota and akifleta on the tim. ~andma worked where they put her 1~t her main trade wan aseing after the sick on that place. *They had a fiddler on the place and had. big d.ancee now and then. Thi8 young generation don t be advised no way you can fix it. I don t ~ow what in the world the folks ia looking ab ut. The folka ain t good as they used to be. They ahaote crap. end drinks and does bw dom thinga all the time. I am t got no time with the young generation. Ti~e gone to piece. pretty bad if you axing ma.~

[Interview with Gill, James] 024 019

30363 ~ # 28 19 Interviewer tatt NoKi~sj ~ - - ~_J~ __J ,- _._ .~ __ ~_l~TU- 1--~ ~ ~ ~* T T~L L~ Th 1~W ~ ~ ~ - Person Interviewed Tes Gill RJ.D. Marvsll Irkaneas - - ~--m s ~ n_ u -s~- ~ ~ ~1 r-~ - ~ -ra- -__i ~ z s iz -~-~-_--~-- -.--_- Ags~11_~~_ Oca~zpation Iai~r ~ * ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ - ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Lrnole J~in Gill, an ex.~slav. eightya..ix years or ags, owns a nia. two hundred acre f.m five miles north ot ~rv.li where h. has lived ror ths past thirty~riv. years. Uncle JIR is an xcsllent citizsn, proepsrous end ~ conservative end highly reapseted by both white end colored. Thia is aolaeesa ineking t1 in the South sad I found Uncle lin i~sily engaged in enpsrint.nding the procese of cooking the extracted juic. froii a ler~ q~uentity of sorguiu~ cens. ~s fi11.r typs of hor...pow.r mill in ihish the cane is crushed was in full op.ration, a roaring rirs irai blazing in the crudely constructed furnace beneath the long pen that contained the furiously fo~1ng, boiling juice end that Uncle Zin inforid - was nigh bout done and ready to drain off into th imge blask pot that stood by ths side of the furnace, The pirpoes or ~ visit was .xplainsd end U~cls J~i~ leaving the molasses neking to scie younger Megro accompanied ~ to the shade of a lar~ oak tree that stood neer ~by an~d told ~ the following story: . My ois ears, he was n~ To~ Ihit. and ay young asre ihat slai~sd ~ he was n~s J~eff. Toung aera en was just bout eei s. Us plsy.d together frcmt ti~ I tust ricoolect till us Left de ois hcs~ place bask in 4~labe~a and lit out for ovsr hers in Arkansas. Ols mars, he. om,..d a heap of eiggsrs bask dsrs iher. us all lived on de big place 1~t de ian it was gittin poor an red end mought near woie out; a. oie pars, h. quired a big lot of lan h.~ in Arkansas in Phillips County~

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2. 20 but you know it was all in de woods den bout tift.en ailes down de ribber from Helena and just thick wid cansbrekes~ 80 he sont bout twenty fambliss ober here and data how us happened to come cause my pappy, he was a extra blacksmith and carpenter end oie mars knowed he gwine to haf to hab him to t slat in bufidin de houses end sich like. ~ *Though I was just t bout sehen year oie den, howso.~evsr, I asinbsr it ~.ll en I surs did hats to leave do oLe ho where I was borned and I didn want leave Mars J ~ft either and when Mars J eff foun it out bout em guns take x~ he cut up auful and just went on, sayin I his nigger and wasn t gvl,ne way off to Arkansas. *Ole mars, he knowed my men.y and pappy, dey wasn t gwins be satisfied widout aU dore chillun wid sa, so en coures I was brung on too. You sees ois wars and he taiably, dey didu come and we was sont under de oberseer what was ne~~ J iu Lynch and us co~ on de train to Me~aphis and dat was when I got so skeered cause I hadn nsbbsr seen no train fore den an I just hollered an cried en went on so dat my ~iy say it I didn hush up she giin~e give IM to de paddy rollers. *J~y put us on de steamboat at Mem~hia and de nsx I ~esiber was us gittin off at de anm. it was in de winter ti bout las of Yamiary us git here end de hen s was put right to work clearin Ian and buildin cabins. It wa~ surs rich lan den, boss, and dey jus slashed de cane and deaden de timber and when cotton plantin tine come de cans was layin dere on de groun crisp dry and dey sot firs to it and 1~irned it off clean end den planted de crops. SOl. wars, h. wc*~ld cos~ from Llabaiia to see bout de bizness two en three times every year and on s~ of dem casions he would bring Mars ~reft wid him and Mers Jeff, he allue nebber tailed to hab eoa.thin for ~

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3. 0 candy and sich 11k., an& dem tines when Mare J eff co~ was when w. had de tua. tie juat run wiN playin and lifen it wa~ in de aun~r tin we wae in de bayou 5w1-nm~in er fiahin continual but all dem good ti~s ceasted atter a uhile when de War co~ie and de Yankees started all dere d.bbi1~nt. Us was Confedrits ai . de while, leastwiss I means my m~isny an my pappy and n~ en all de roe of de chillun cause oie ~ra was and liars J tt would er fit em too and me wid him iffen we had been oie enough, *:~Lt de Yankees, dey didn know dat we was Confedrits, dey jus reckon we like moat ail de rea ot de niggors. Us was akeered of dem Yankees though t cause us chii .un coss didn know what dey was and de ob.rseer, ~im Lynch, dey done tole us little uns dat a Yankee was so~pin what had one great big horn on he haid and just one eye and dat right In de middle of he breast and, boss, I sire was s prizad when I seen a sure nough Yankee and see he vas a men just like any er de roe of de folks. De war tore up thing. right sharp yit an still it wasn t so bad here in Arkansas as I hear tolks tell it was back in de yolder states like Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia. De bes I ri 3ColeOt de Yankees coi~ in here bout I~ily of de year end~ dey had a big scrap in Helena wid em and us could hear de cannons fifteen miles off and den dey would make del s trips mit foragin tor stuff, corn and sich, and dey would take all de cotton dey could fin , but our mena, dey would hide de cotton in de thickets an cane~. brakes iffen dey had time or either dey would hirn it up fore de Yankees 001M it dey could. I member one day we had on han bout hundred bales at de gin and a white man corns wid orders to de oberseer to git rid ot it, so dey started to haulin it off to de woods and dey hauled ott bout fifty bales and den dey see dey wasn t goin to hab time to git de res to de woods and den dey conui~nced cuttin de ties on de bales so dey could setf ire to dem

027 022

4. 0 ) dat dey dn hid ylt and bout dat t1n~ here c ie one of Mr. Torn Casteel a niggers just a flyln on a rm.tle wid a letter to de white man. Mr. Tcm Casteel he had he place just u.p de ribber from us on de Island and when he gived de letter to de man en de r~n read it, he said de Yankees is comin and he lit out for de ribber where de boat was wait in for him and got way and dare was all dat loose cotton on de groun and us was skeered to sit fire to de cotton den and bout dat t the de Yankees arive and say dont you thirn dat cotton and dey looked all ober de place and find de bales dat was hid in de woods and de next ~j~y dey cone and haul lt off and dey say us niggers can hab dat what de ties been cut on and my maniny, she set to work and likewise de odder women what de Yankees say can had de loose cotton and tie up aU dey can in bags and atter dat us sold it to de Yankees in Helena for a dollar a pou_n and dat was all de money us had for a long tix~. ~How ~son~-ever us all lived good cause dere was heap of wild hogs an possums and sich and we had hid a heap or corn and us did tine. So~tin~a de war bo, dey would pass on de ribber ~.dat i s de Yankee boata..~- and us would hide hind de tree s sud bushes and see dem pass. We wouldn t let dem see us though cause we thought dey would shoot. Heap en heap er tinma sojera would come by us place0 Then de Yankees ud come dey would ax my marI!ny, Aunt Mary, is you seen any Se~ceah today ?t and manany, she ud say Naw ~ eben iffen she had seen sons of us r~ns, Ixit when our sojera ud cone and say, Aunt Mary, I s you seen ary Yankee round here re cent? she ud allus tell dem de tru.f, Dey was a lxtnch of us sojers, dat is de Con.. fedrits, what used to stay round in de cominity constant, dat we knowed, but dey allus had to be on de dodge cause dere was so many more Yankees dan dem.

028 023

5. .~s t_j ~ 8oma of deae men I ~member good oause dey waa us oloasat neighbors and some of dem libed on tJtj~~~g places. ~rs was Mr. Iaua Shell, Mr. Tom Stoneham, Mr. Bob Yabee Mr. Henry Rabb and Mr. Tom Casteel t~m I member well cause dey come to us cabin right oVen and mar~ny, she ud cook for em and den atter de niggers git dey freedom dey could 1e~ve de place any tine dey choose and every so ot en znani~y ud go to Helena and gin rally she took me wid her to help tote de things she get dere. 01e Mr. Cooledg~, he had de bigge et and bout de oui ie at store dat der. was in Helena at dat t line Mr. Cooledge he was a oie like gentleman and had everything most in he store.-~ bOOt8, shoes, tobacco, medicine en so on. Cose couldn t no ~U88Ofl go in an outen Helena at dat time dat is dunn war daya.~outen dey had a pass and de Yankee sojer dat writ de passes was naiad &tford en he is de one what us ailus git our passes from for to git in en out and twasn t so long fore Mr. ~ford, he git to know my maimny right weil and call her by her name. He~ just like all de white mena, knowed her as Aunt Mary , ~t him nor none of de Yankees knowed dat manvny was a Confedrit and data somepin I will tell you, boss, Dese sojers dat I la just named and dat was us neighbors, dey ud come to our cabin son~times en say, Aunt Mary~ we want you to go to Helena tor us and git some tobacco and mebbe some medicine and so on, and we gwine write oie man Cooledge er note ror you to take wid you; and man~ny, she ud git off for town walking and ud git de note to oie man Cooledge ~ 01e man Cooledge, you see, bosse he sided wid de Contedrites too but he didn let on dat he did but all de Confedrit sojers round dar in de county, dey knowed dey could pend on him and when my mammy ud take de note in oie man Cooledge, he ud fix ma~ny up in some o~ dem big, wide hoop skirts and hide de things neath de skirts dat de men sont for. Den she and sometimes me

029 024

6. C) ~ wid her, us would light out for home and coae we eflus had our pass and dey knowed us and we eaay git by de plokete and git honie wid de good. for thoae sojer men what sont us. ~8peakin from my own puasonal eperience, boss, de niggers was treated good In slavery tines, dat is dat was de ease wid my mare peoplea. Our mars wouldn t hab no mietreatn~nt of his niggers but Pze heered tell dat aome of de ina~a was pretty mean to dere niggere, but twaen t 80 wid u.s teause us had good houssa and plenty aomepin to eat outen de ae~ pot what de white folks victuals cooked in and de sa~ victuals dat dey had, You see dat oie kittie sottin ober dar by de lasses pan right now? Well, I is et many a rasai outen dat kittle in slavery tin~a cause dat is de very seite kittle dat dey used to cook us victuals lit when us belonged to oie marss ~ Thite, and lived on he place down on de ribber, It was den, boas, just aa~ wid white D15fl as tie in dis day and time. 1ere is heap ot good white folks now and der. is a heap of dem what ain t so good. You know dat s so, bosse don t you? Then de niggers been niad.e free de oberseer, he called all de peoples up and he sa, You ai . is free now and you can do like you please ~ You can stay on here and make de crops ur you can leave which-some~ever you want to do. And wid dat de niggera, dat ismost of dem, let like when you leave de lot gate open where is a big litter of shotes and dey just hit de road and conirnenced to ramble. Most of em, dey go on to Helena and gita dey grub from de Yankees and stay dar till de Yankees let . But us, we stay on de place and some mors dey stay too and you knows boss, s~ of dem niggera what belonged to old mars and what he was 80 good ~ dey stole mighty nigh all de mules and rode dem ott and marss he never git he mule s back. Naw ~ih, dat he didn ~ war, it broke oie mars up

030 025

7. 25 and . attr de surrender he iv. ist h. &rksnaa. t.r~ go ~ an nvar oo~ back no mors. Soie of de older peoples, dey vent baok to Alabs~a tie. er two and seen oie mare ~it I nebbsr did git to aee him since us wae aot fr.e ~it Mare ~ .rr, he ccmed here ai . de way fr~ de hc~ in Alabma way atter he waa growed. It a been bout fifty year now since de ti~ he was her. and I eure wee proud to see him, dat I wasp bose, cauee I &ws did lovs Mar. left and I loves hin yii to dia day iffen h. still lives and iffen h. daid which I ain t never heered er not, den I lovee and epecte h. na~ory. ~ ~Taa euh1 boss, times is changed sirs t~~pi~ ~it ilk. I plained white roi~e and it s de aa~ wid niggera, ao is good and tryc ts lib en eoi~ don keer and jus turns boss en don restrain de~uas Tu0 ~Tou know, bose, ders i. heap. of niggera w~d ~whit. blood in ~a. was etarted way back yonder I reckon ror. I was ever born.d, j I knowed it waa l ng afore den 1~at lt waen t ~ kine e~ whit. folks t eponsible for dat it was de low class liks eo~ of de oberseers and den 8oe~ of de yothar folks like for instance de furriners what used to cc in de country and work at jobs de mars ud give em to do on ths places lik carpsntrying an sich. I knowd on. bad case, boas, dat bappened right der. by u. place and dat was de oberseer who aponsible for dat and he was d oberseer for a widow ~ian what lived in Uelena and die white man runned de place eu he hab he nigger oman and she de ~ma of bout six chiflun by die flan I tellin you bout, three gals and three boya and dem chillun sigh bout white and look just lik hin and dn h. move off to eo~ yother part of de county and he git uiarri.d der. to a white cmmn but he take h. nigger fambly wid hin just de eei~ and he built dm a houes in de n~iddl. of de place hsdone bou~it and he keep ein der. eban though he done got hin a ihits wife who he lib wid siso end, boas, ein.. I don. told you he n~ don t te~ bout right em and dat ~iucks3 what L

031 026

8. 26 I said so cause de chillun, dey is livin dors yet and so~ or d.i~ is gattin old deyselvea now but, boas, I d.on t spect I is tellin you aish you don t already know bout d&~ bunch.

[Scratching pacified master.] 032 027

3 ~o9 Thtervlewei ~ -~-- Beulah3herwood Ha~ ~ Person interviewed Mrs. Cora Gillam ~ Age~6 1023 Arch Street, Little Rock, Arkansas -w~- ~w I have never been entirely sure of my age I have kept it since I was married and they called me fifteen. That was in 66 or 6 ?. Anyhow, I m about 86, and what difference doe8 one year make, one way 01 another. I lived with master and mistress in Greenville, Miss..~ issippi. They didn t have children and kept me in the house with them all the tine. Master was always having a bad spell and take to his bed. It always made him sick to hear that freedom was coming closer. He just uln t stand to hear about that I alwayp remember the day he died. It was the fall of Vicksburg. When he took a spell, I had to stand by the bed and scratch his head tor hirn, and tan him with the other hand. He said that scratching pacified him. No ma am, oh no indeedy, my father was not a slave Can t you tell by me that he was white? My brother and one sister were\ tree tolks because their white father claimed them. Brother was in college In Cincinnati and sister was in Oberlin college. My tather wa~ Mr. McCarroll from Ohio. He came to Mississippi to be overseer on the plantation ot the Warren family where my mother lived. My ~ran~dmother on mother s side, was full blood Cherokee. She came from North Carolina. In early days my mother and her brothers and sisters were stolen from their home in North Carolina and taken to Misaisaippi and sold for slaves. You know the Indians could follow trails

033 028

~ ~\ 2. 28 better than other kind of folks, and she tracked her children down and stayed In the south. My mother was only part Negro; so was her brother, my uncle Torn. He seemed all Indian. You know, the Cherokees were peaceable Indians, until you got them mad. Then they was the fiercest fighters of~ any tribes. Wait a minute, lady. I want to tell you first why I didn t get educated up north like my white brother and sister. Yust about time tor me to be born my papa went to see how they was getting along in school. He left my education money with mama. He sure did want all hia children educated. I never saw my father. He died that trip. After awhile r~a~na married a colored man name Lee. He took my school money and put me in the cotton patch. It was still during the war time when my white folks moved to Arkan sas ; it was Desha county where they settle. Now I want to tell you about my uncle Tom. Like I said, he was half Indian. B~it the Negro part didn t show h&rdly any. There was something about uncle Tom that made both white and black be afraid of him. His master was young, like him. He was name Tom ~ohnson, too. You see, the Warrens, what own my mother, and the J~ohnsons, were all sort of one family. Mi tress Warren and Mistress J~ohnson were sisters, and owned everything together. The Tohnsons lived in Kentucky, but came to Arkansas to farm. Master Torn taught his slaves to read. They say uncle Tom was the best reader, white or black, for miles. That was iuhat got him in trouble. Slaves was not allowed to read. They didu t want them to know that freedom was coming. No nia am~ Any time a crowd of slaves gathered over~ seers and bushwhack rs cerne and chased them ; broke up the crowd.

034 029

3, 29 That Indian In uncle Torn made him not scared ot anybody. He had a newspaper with latest war news and gathered a crowd of slaves to read them when peace was ccmtlng. White men say it done to get uprising among slaves. A crowd of white gather and take uncle Torn to jail. Twenty of them say they would beat him, each man, till they so tired they can t lay on one more lick. If he still alive, then they hang him. Wasn t that awful? Hang a man just because he could read? They had him in jail overnight. Bis young master got wind ot it, and went to save his man. The Indien in uncle Tom rose. Strength ~ big extra 8trength seemed to come to him. Pirat man what opened that door, he leaped on him and laid him out. No white men could stand against him in that Indian fighting spirit. They was acared ot him. He almost tore that jalihouse down, lady. Yes he did. His young master took I him that night next day the white mob ~was after him and had him in jail. Then listen what hapRened. The Yankees took Helena, and opened up the jails. ~verybody so scared they rorgot all about hangi gs and things like that. Then uncle Tom join the Union army; was in the 54th Regiment, U. 5. voluiiteers (colored) and went to Little Rock. ~ My mama come up here. You see, so many white tolks loaned their slaves to the cessioners (Cecessionists) to h~lp build torte all over the state. Marna was needed to help cook. They was building torts to protect Little Rock. Steele was coming. The mistress wasP kind; she took care of me and my sister while mania was gone. It was while she was in Little Rock that mama married Iae. After peace they went back to Helena and stayed two years with old mistress. She let them have the us~ o~ the farm tools and mule.;

035 030

4. 30 she pit up the cotton end seed corn and food for us. She told. us we could work on shares, half and halt. You see, ina em, when slaves got tree they &rit t have nothing bit their two hands to start o~xt . ( with. I never heard oi any master giving a slave money or land. Most went back to farming on shares, For many years all they got was their food. Some white folks was so mean. I know what they told us every time when crops would be put by. They said Why didn t you work harder? Look. When the seed is paid for, and all your food and everything, what food you had just squares the account. Then they take all the cotton we raise, all the hogs, corn, everything. le was ju~t about where we was in slave days. When we see we never going to make anything share cropping, mother and I went picking. Yes ma em, they paid pretty good; got ~l.5O a hundred. So we saved enough to take us to Little Rock. lent on a boat, I reri~ember, and it took a whole week to make the trip. Just think of that. A whole week between here and Helena. I was married by then. Gillem was a blacksmith by trade and had a good business. Bit in a little while he got int& politics in Little Rock. Yes, lady. If you would look over the old records you would see where he was made the keeper of the jail. I don t know how many times he was elected to city council. He was the only colored coroner Pulaski county ever had. He was in the legislature, too. I used to dress up and go out to hear him make speeches. lait a minute and I will get my scrap book and show you all the things I cut from the papers printed about him in those days. . .

036 031

5. 3f Even e!ter the colored folks got put out of public office, they atill kept my Irneband for a policeman. It waa during those days he bo~xght this home. 8ixty-~sevet years we been living right in this place I guess when did you say the war had its wInd up? It was the only house in a big forest. All my nine children was born right in this house. No ina ani, I never have worked since I came here. My husband always made a good living. T had all I could do caring for those nine children. When the Democrats came in power, of course all colored men were let out of office. Then my husband went back to his blacksmith trade. He was always interested in breedin fine horses. Kept two fine stallions; one was named ~ udge Hill , the other nPinohback*. Thite folke from Kentucky, even, used to come here to b~iy his colts. Race people in Texas took our colts as fast as they got born. Only recently we heard that stock from our stable was among the best in Texas. The Li Kiuxera never bothered us in the least. I think they worked mostly out in. the country. We used to hear terrible tales of how they whipped and killed both white and black, for no reason at all. ~verybody was afraid of them and scared to go out after dark. They were a strong organization, and secret. ~ I 11 tell you lady if the rough element from the north had stayed out of the south the trouble of reconstruction would not happened. Yea ma am, that s right. You see, after great disasters like-fires end earthquakes and such, always reckless criminal class people ecais in its wake to rob and pillage. It was like that in the war days. It was that bad element of the north what made the trouble.

037 032

6. 32 They tried to excite (incite) the colored against their white frienda, The white folks was 8t111 kind to them what had been their slaves0 They would have helped them get started. I know that. I always say that if the south could of been left to adjust itself, both white and colored would been better off. Now about this votin business. I ~ess you don t find any colored folks what think they get a fair deal. I don t, either. I don t think it is right that any t~x payer should be deprived of the right to vote. Why, lady, even my children that pay poll tax can t vote. One of ray daughters is a teacher In the public school. She tells me they send out notices that if teachers don t pay a poll tax they may lose their place. &~t still they can t use it and vote in the primary. My husband always believed in usin your voting privilege. He has been dead over 30 years. He had been appointed on the Grand fury; had bought a new suit of clothes for that. He died on the day he was to go, so we used his new suit to bury him in. I have been getting his soldier s pension ever since. Yes xna am, I have not had it hard like lots of ex-slaves. Before you go I d like you to look at the bedspread I knit last year. My dau~iters was trying. to learn to knit. This craze for knitting has got everybody, it looks like. I heard them fus.. sing about they could not cast on the stitches. 9~or land s sakes,w I said, hand rue them needles. So I fussed around a little, and it all caine back. That s funny about it is, I had not knitted a stitch since I was about ten. Old mistress used to make me knit socks for the soldiers, I remember I knit ten pair out of coarse yarn,

038 033

7,. 33 while she Was doing a couple ror the officer out of fine wool and silk mixed. I used to knit pulse warmers, and ha i.-handers , :t bet you t know what they was. Yes, that a right ; gloves without any fingers, cepting a thumb and it didn t have any end. I could even. knit on four needles when t was little. We used to make our needles out of bones, wire, smooth, straight sticks, anything that would slip the yarn. Well, l.t me get back to this spread. In a few minutes it all came back, I began knitting wash rags. Got faster and. faster. Didn t need to look at the stitches. The girls are so scared something will happen to me they won t let ~ me do aiiy work. Now I had fou~nd something I could do. When they saw how fast E work, they say: SMother, why don t you make so~~ thing worth while? Thy make so many waahrags? So I started the bedspread. I ~ess it took me six months, at odd t~n~s. I got it done in time to take to Ft. North to the big exhibit of the National Federation of Colored Womens Clubs. My daughter was the national pre sident that year. Lt 13. believe it this spread took first prize. Look, here s the blue ribbon pinned on yet. What they thought was so wonderful was that I knit every stitch of it without glasses. But that is not so funny, because I have never worn glass s in my life. I guess that is some more of my Indian blood telling. Sometimes I have to laugh at sara of these young people. I call them young because I knew them when they were babies. But they are already all broken down old men and women. I still feel young inside. I feel that I have had a good life.

[Story of J. N. Gillespie.] 039 034

::~ ~ 3. Interviewer SamuelS.Tafior . j Person interviewed f~~1 ~j . i~ Gilles%e 1112 harkE Sti eet Little Rocik7 Arki sas Age~~~ ~ I was born near Galveston, in Texas, January 19, 1863, so they tell me. I been in this town and been living right here at 1112 Park Street for fifty-~three years and am t never had no trouble with anybody. My grandparents were i e. My grandma was an Indian woman, She was stolen oft the reservation..-.~her and her daughter The daughter was about twelve years old and big enough to wait table . ~ Both of them were full blooded Cherokee Indiana My ~audma1married a slave nd when she growed up, my mother married a slave ; but my mother a parents were both I ~~\\/ Indians and one of my father s paren14 was white so ~ you see about three fourths otme is something else. My grandmother s name before her tiret marriage was Courtney and m~ mother s first name was Parthenia. When they were stolen, they were made slaves. Nick Toliver ~bought em. He was their first master, far as I heard em say. After old man Nick Toliver died, Tom Brewer bought ray mother. Toliver and Brewer were the only two masters she had. . After freedom came, my ~randxna took back her own name, Gillespie. Grandma s second husband was named Berry Green. She was tree and in the Indian reservation when she married Gillespie, but she was a slave when she married Berry Green, RAfter my mother cai~ to be of age, she married a man na~d Willis. He was a slave. That is why I am like I am new. If my grandma had stayed

040 035

2. 35 in the nation, I never would have been a slave, and I wouldn t need to be beatixi around here trying to get just br ad and meat. After freedom, she taken her mother a name by her free husband, Gillespie, and she made her husband take lt too. That hoi T got the na~ of Gillespie. ~ Oc~p~tlOfl of Forefathers O After they were made slaves, my grandmother cooked and x~ mother waited table and worked as a hOuse girl. My graiidma used to make clothes too, and she could work on one of these big looms. Patroilsra My ~ mother told me that . ihen the boys mould go out to a tance they would tie a rope across the road to make the horses of the patrollers stumble and give the dancers time to get away. &meti?n~a the horses legs would be broken. O . ~ , s Occupation O I wants to mork and can t get work; so they am t no use to worry. I used. to cook. That is all I did for a living. I cooked as long as I could get something for it I can t get a pension. Slave Houses O n ~ didri t see no log houses ~en I vowed up. ~verything was fr~, Right After the lar Bight after the lax, my mother stayed around the house and continu~ed to work for her master. I don t knov what they paid. her. I an t remember just how they got free but I think the soldiers gave em the notification.

041 036

3. 36 They atayed~ on the place till I was big enou~,h to work. I didn t do no work in alave time becauae I wam t old enough. ~ Ghoked on Watermelon Seede ~ One day I waa ~tea11ng watermelons wi th eo~e big boys and I got choked on acme seeda. The melon seeds got in my. throat. I yelled tor help and the boys ran away. Old Torn Brewer made rae get on my hands and jump up and down to get the seeds out . Leaving Galve8ton RI was a ~na.ll boy, might have been seven or eight years old, when I left Galveston. We came to Bradley County, here in Arkansas. ~ ~ adley my mother took ins to Pine Bluff. After I got big I went back to T~xaa. Then I caine from Texas here fifty-three years ago, and have been living here ever since cooking tor hotels and private familieS. ~I never was arrested in my life I never been in trouble I never had a fight Been living in the aame place ever since I firat came here right here at 1112 Park street. I belong to the Chriatian Church. at Thirteenth and Cross Streeta. I quit working around the yard and the building because they iouldn t pay me anything, They prcr~i s.d to pay n~, but they wouldn t do it.~

042 037

4. 37 Interviewer s Comment Gillespie has an excellent reputation, as indeed have most of the ex-slaves in this city. He is clear and unfaltering in his memory. He 18 deliberate and selects what he means to teli. lie is never discourteous. He I s a little nervous and cannot be held long at a im. Indian ch~ir-. acteristics in hirn are not especially prominent, but you note them readily after learning of his ancestry. He is brown but slightly copper in color, and his profile has the typical Indian appearance. He is a little taciturn, and. sometimes acts on his decisions before he announces them, I cultivated him about three weeks.

[Bites dog's foot off.] 043 038

r. ~I-~ ~ ~ ~-- ~ -r ~ will 01.a8e ?15 W. Eighth Street, Little Rock, Arkan~ias Occupat ion All ~aaaor~v1ng work ~ -~-~ - ~ L~ ~ -L~ ~- ~ ~ My grandfather was named J~oe Glaas0 lila master was named Glass. I forget the first narre. My grandfather on my mother s side was named &alth. His old master was named ~nith. The grandfather 3 oe was born in Alabama. Grandfather ~n.tth was born in North Carolina. Whippings There were good masters and mean masters. Both of my old grand.. fathers had good masters, I bad an uncle, Anderson Fields, who had a tough master. He was so tough that Uncle Anderson had to run away. They d whip him and do around, and he would ruzi away. Then they would get the dogs after him and they would run him until he would climb a tree to get away from them, They would cc~ae and surround the tree and make him c e dom and they would whip him till the blood ran, and scmetimes they would make the dogs bite him and he couldn t do nothing about it. One time he bit a dog s foot off. They asked him why he did that and he said the dog bit him and he bit him back. They whipped him again. They would take him home at night and put what they called the ball and chain on him and some of the others they called unruly to keep them from running away. They didn t whip my grandfathers. Tust one time they whipped Grandfather 3~oe. That was because he ~uldn t give his consent for them to whip his wife. He wouldn t stand for it and they strapped him, Interviewer Person interviewed Age ~ 38

044 039

2. R. told tben~ to at~ ap him and aaT. h~~ bs. R was a good. iork.~ and thsy didn t want to kil . him, ao they et~appd him and i.t her bo like h. said. ~ Pienice Both ot my giandfather. said their me.etera ueed to gIve pionica. They would have a certain day and they would give them aU. a good ti~ end let them enjoy themse ve . They would kill a cow or eome kid. end hogs and have a barbecue. They kept that up after tr.dc~. Ivery nin.t.enth of J uns, they would throw a big picnic until I got big enough to es. and. know for mya.lt. ~it their uiaatere ~T. them theirs in slavery timea. mey gay. it to them once a ysar and it wae on the nineteenth or une then. *Grendtather Jo. iaid whsn he uantsd to z ry J ex~nte, she waa und r hsr old asater, the man that Andereon worked under. Old ~n G~.ass f~ad that Grandfather J~oe wae slipping off to old man Field e to ~ eee Grandma I, J ennie, who waa on Field s place, and old man Fielda went over and told Glasa that he would either have to sell O3~aae to him or buy Jezmie from him. Old man Glaaa bought ;rennie arid Grandfather Toe got her. After old r~n Glaai bought Jennie, he held up a broom and they would have to jump over it backwarda and then old men Glass pronounced them ~n and wite. ~Grandtather 3P0 ~j ~ when I ~8 a boy ten years old. Grandfather ~nith died in 1921. He was eighty y.ara old when h. died. Grandfather J os wae aev.nty.two yara old when be dlsd. He died aomewh.re along in 1898. . Whit oapa I heard them sp.ek of the lu Klux oftin. ~t they didn t call them Ku Klux; they called them whitecaps. The whitecap. u.sd to go around at night end ~t hold of colored people that had bsen living disorderly

045 040

30 40 end ear~~ them out and whip $heia. I nsver heard ihOm say that they whippsd anybody for voting. if, they did1 it vaau t done In our nelghboxhoo,d. Worahip *Ux~o1o Anderson aai4 that old man Flelta didn t allow them to sing and pray and hold meetin~a, and they had to alip oft and slip aside and hide around to pray. They knsw what to do. People used to atick their heada under waahpota to sing and pray. Scme ot thsm went out into the brueh arbora where they could pray and ahout without being disturbsd. Grandfather Zoe and Grandfather ~n,tth both said that they had aeen alavea have that trouble. Ot course, it never happened on the plantations where they were brought up. Uncle Anderson said that th.y would aometi~s go off and gst under ths washpot and sing and pray the best they could. When they prayed under the pot, they would make a little hole and est ths / pot over it. Then they would stick their heads under the pot and say and sing what they wantsd. Slave Salsa wGrandrather Yoe and Grandfather ~ith used to say that ehen a child was born i:LcI it was a child that was tine blooded they would put it on th. block and sell it away from iti parents while it was little. Both of ay grandtathers imrs sold away frcm their parents when they were email kids. They never knew who their parents were. When my oldest auntie was born, my mother said she was sold about two years ~ before freedom. Aunt Enina was only two years old then when she was sold. Mother never ~t her until ehe was married and had a family. They would sell the children slaves of that e t at auction, and l t them go to the highest biddsr.

046 041

4.. 4i:~ . Opinlone My grandfather brought m up atrietly. I don t know what they thought about the young people of their day, but I know what I think, I will tell you~ At first I aearched niyaelt. lida in the tii~ I oaxi~ along had tQ ~O by a certain rule. They had to go by it. We don t see to our chIldren doing right ae our parente saw to o~r doing. It would be good if we could get ourselvea together and bring thee. young people back where they belong. What rained the young folka la our lack of discipline. We send them to school but that la all, and that l~ not enough. We ought to take it O~ ourselves to ao that they are learning as they ought to learn and ~iat they ought to learn. ei belong to Bethel A. M. 1, Gh~.zrsh. I married aboUt 1919, November 16. I have just one kid and two grand kida.* /

[Interview with Glenn, Frank William] 047 042

3O4~54 42 Interv1ewer~ - - - MISS I ?fl~ Robert son Person Interviewed Frank W1 m~G1em~ Des Arc~Arkanaaa A~e~ ?g . RI was born 3~une 1864 in . Th s Arc My paren.t s named Richard Lewis Glenn and Pleasant Glynn. My xnaina died when I was small. I recollect hearing em say the southern women oughtn t marry the Yankee men, there was 80 naich difference In their lives. A few widows and girls did marry Yankee men, very few. Southern tolks j hated em. Master WashOlenn had a son named Boliver. He may had more. I t t know much about ein. We stayed there after the war for a long time then went to work for Mr. Be&tord Bathels tather, We worked there a long time then went to work for Mr. ~im Erwin. My papa always tanned. I heard my mama say she washed and sewed during slavery. There was three boys and one girl In our tamise. I heard, bout the buahwhackers and Ku Klux. I was too young to tell bout what they did do. I never did see none dressed up. I don t tool wid votin much. I have voted. I don t understand votin much and how they run the govermint. My time ot usefulness is nearly gone~ The present time serves me hard. I got my leg caught in a wagon wheel and so sprained I been cripple ever since. The rheumatiz settles in it till I can t sleep at night. My wife quit me. I got two boys in Chicago, the girl and her ma in Brinkley. They sho don t help me, I have to rent my house. I don t own nuthin . I work all I m able,

048 043

43 2. The prsaent gezierati on ta selfiah and reatleaa, t don t know what goner bsoome of em. Tii~a ia changing to That for me, I jeas look on aiid wonder what going to come ort next . I

[Interview with Glespie, Ella] 049 044

I ~ ~ : 44 Ix~terview.r ~ Person interviewed ~11a G1sa~e~Braaafie1d~ ~Arkaxwaa Age~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ PI waa born the third year alter the surrender. I was born In Okoloxta, Mississippi. My parents wa~ ~Tane Bowen and Henry Harrlaon. Ma had seven children. They lived on th Gates place at freedcm. I m the onliest one of my kin living anywherea bout flOW. Ma never was sold but pa waa. Parson Canithers brought pa frc~i Alabama. He was a good runner and when h was little he throid his hip outer j int running racea. Then Par8Ofl Car~ithere learnt him a trade- - a shoemaker. When he was still nothing 1~it a lad he was sold for q~uite a sum of money. When emancipation come on he could read and write and make chance. RSo den he was out in the world cripple. He started teaching school. He had been a preacher, too, dunn slavery. He preached and taught school, He was justice of the peace and representative for two te~na from CLiickaeaw County in the state legislature. I heard them talk about that and when I started to school Mr. &~ggs was the white man principal. Pa was one teacher and there was acme more teachers. He wa~ a teacher a long tim. He was eighty odd and ma was sixty odd when she died. Both died in Mississippi. SLy folks said Master Gates was good. I knowd my pa s young Master Gates. Pa said he never got a whooping. They made a right ~nart of money outen his work. He said some of the boots he made brung high as twenty dollars. Pa had a good deal of Confederate bills as I recollects. Ma said some of them on Gates place got whooping..

050 045

2. 45 When they wou 4 be at picnics and big corn shellings or shuckings either, efl Gatee black folks was called Heavy Gatea ; they was fed and treated so well. I viaited back at home in Mississippi. Went to the quarters and all nineteen ysara ago. I heard them still talking about the Heavy Gatea I was one the off apring4. Ma cooked for her old mietresa years and yeare, ~a. Rogers In South Carolina give ma to Mise Rebecca, her daughter, and aaid Take good care of her, you might need her. They come in ox wagons to Misaisaippi. Ma waa a little girl then when Mies Rebecca married Dr. Bowen. Ma hated to leave Misa Rebecca Bowen caua in the first place she was her half~ieter. ~e said Master Rogers was her own pa. Her nia was a cook and house girl ahead of her. Ma was a fine cook. Heap better than I ever was cause she never lacked th stuff to fix and I come short there. nI heard ma tell this. Wherever she lived and worked, at Dr. Bowen a, I reckon. The soldiers coins one day and took their sharp swords frcm out their belts and cut off heads of turkeys, chickens, geese, ducks, gt~ineas, and took a load off and left some on the ground, They picked up the heads and what was left and made a big washpot full of dumplings. She said the soldiers wasted so miich~ When I was young I seen a style block at Holly Springs Misai asippi. I was going to Tucker Lou School, ten miles from ~Tackaon. That was way back in the seventies. A platform was up in the air under a tree and two stumps stood on ends for the steps. It was higher than three steps but that is the way they got up on the plattorm they tole ~. I think times are a little better, I gits a little ironing and six dollars and coimnoditiea. The young generation is taking on funny ways. I think they do very well morally cepting their liquor drinking habits,

051 046

3. 46 That ja worse, I think. They are advancing in learning. I think timea a little better. My husband had been out here. We married and I c~e here. I didn t like here a bit ~t now niy kin is all dead and I know folka here better. I like it now very well. He was a farmer and mill mane

[Interview with Golden, Joe] 052 047

30322 ~ ~ 47 Intervi ew er ~ ~ : ~1 k M~P~ ~ _ Person Interviewed J~oeGo1den Age 88 aonie ~ ~ 722 Gulpha Street H~t $prlngs, Ark. Yes, matain to be sure I remembers you. I knew your father and all his brothers. I knew your mother s tather and your grandmother, and all the D~n lers. Your grandpappy was mighty good to me. Your grandmother was too. ~any s the day your uncle Fred followed me about while I ~as hunting. I was the only one whet your grandpappy would let hunt in his garden. Yes, ii~a erl I It your grandniother would he ar a shot across the hill in the garden she d say, Go over and see who lt is. And your grandfather would come. Re d chase them away~. But If it was me, he d go back hoxae and he d tell her, t, ~~ s j ust Yoe s not going to carry away more than he can eat. Yoe ll be all right. Yes, ma alft. I was born down at Magnet Cove. I belonged to Mr. judy Mitchell. lie was a great old Elan, he was. Did he have a big farm and lots of

053 048

48 blaek i~o1ks ? Law mi sa he dJ Ii t have iiothl rig b~t children, Just lots ot little children. fl~ rented ~iie and my pappy and my m.other to the Sumptera right here in hot Spring$. I ceE~ reinenaber Hot Springs v~hen there wasn t more than three houses here. Folks used to come thru and lots of~ folks used, to stay. But there wasn ~t more then three temilies lived here part ot the time. Yes, ma anL we worked. But we had lots of fun too~.. Thea Was exciting times. I Can remember when folks got to sh ot Ing at ea oh oth er r I ~ht In the stre et I rim off and taken to the woods when that happened. N~o, miss, we didnt.t live in Hot Springs all thru the war. When the Pederals taken Little Rook they teliin us to Texas. We stayed there until 68. Then we coins back to ~ot Springs, -Yes) miss, hot Springs was a good. place to make money. Lots of rich folks was coining to the h tels. Yes, ma am~, I made money. ~~ypt~ ~ make it? Well lots ot ways. I used to run. I was the fastest runner what was. Folks would bet on us, and I d always win, ~I hen I used to shine shoes. Made money at it too. Lots of days I made as much as $4 or $5. Sometimes I didn t even stop to eat. But I was making money, and I didn t care.

054 049

I.. 3 3~oe Go1~en rntd~ins 49 Then. there was a feller, a doctor he was. He ~1ve me a gun. I used to like to hunt. Hunted all over these mountalns* hunted quail and hunted squirrel and a few times I killed deers. The man what gave me the gun he promised nie twenty five cents apiece for &ll trie quail I could bring him.. Lots of times I caine in with them by the dozen. I tried to save my money. Didn t spend much. ltd brine it home to my mother. She d put it avvay for me. But if my pappy knowed. I got money he d take it avay from~ me and buy whiskey. You. xni~ht know why, miss. He was pert Creek--~-~yes ma am, part Creek Indian. Does you remember ohinquapins ? They used to be all over the hill up yonder.* I used to ~et lots of them. Sell them too. One time I chased a deer up there*. Got him with a knife, didn t have a gun. The dogs cornered him for me. Best dog I ever had, his name was Abraham Lincoln. lie was ex~ra good for a possom dog. Once I ot a white ~ p0550111 in the same place I ~ot & deer. It was way out yonder~ --~-~that place there ain t nothing but rocks~ Yes, niatam, Hell s Half cre.f * * tTnits of lot Springs National Park. I Spot without soil or ve~etation ~broken talus r ~ ~c.

055 050

Eudgins Yoe Golden 5 Yes, BLISS, I has made lots of~ nioney in my time. Can~t vvork none now. Wish you had ~ot to me three years ago. That was before I had my stroke. ~an t think of ~what I. w ant to s ay and can t make fly ntouth s ay it You o eing patient vdth me. I got to take time to think. Me and my wife ~ie gets along. pretty well. We hale ou~ hOme~ and then. I got other property.* We iias real v~e11 o~ I ha d $1200 in the bank- ~ ~.Web bts lank ~ it tai1ed~ Never got but part of my money back. When I sold out my bootblack stand I bought a butcher shoD. I made e lot of money there. I had good xn$t and folks, black folks and white tolks caine t,o buy tram me. 30 you rexaembers my barbecue, do you ? Yee, miss, I always tri ed to niake it good Yes I remember s your ~a~y used to always buy from me. Your ~randxnother was a good woman. I remember when your Uncle Freddy had been foblowing me around all day while I was hunting.~- it wa s in yo i~ g~andpapp y s garden~~his~ vin~ard too~it was mighty big. I told Freddy he could have a squirrel or a quail. He took the squirrel and I gave * Home clean, well painted and cared for, two story, large lot. Rental cottage, good condition, negro neighborhood. # Bank owned and operated for and by negroes~ a~filiated with beadquarters ot large national negro lodge.

056 051

51 5 him a couple of quai1tOO~ Went home with him and showed your grandxaother now they ought to be fixed. I can remember before your tather lived in Itot Springs. He and. his brothers used to oome thru from Polk: County. They d bring a lot of cotton to sell. Yes, ma ant lots of folks caine thru. They d either sell them here or go on to Little Rock. Lots of Indians-~.. a1on~ with cotton and skins they d bring loadstone. Then~when your pappy arid his brothers had a hardware store I bought lots of things from them~. Used to be saine pretty bad men In Bot 5prings --~tolks was mean In them days. I remember when your tath~r kept two men from killing each other. Wish, I wish I could remember better. This stroke has about got me. Yes, miss, that was the garden. I used to sell garden truck too. had a busk fence around lt long before ~ wire one. Folks used to pass up other folks to buy truck from me. Your mother did. Life s been pretty good to nie. I ve l&ved a long tune And I ye don e a lot Made a lot of money and d idn t get beyond the third grade.* Can t cultivate the garaen now. My wife does well enough to take care of the yard. She s a * No public schools in iiot springs until the late ?Os.

057 052

6 J~oe Golden Eud~~in. 52 good woman, niy wife is. so. you re going to Fayetteville to see Miss Adeline ? I remember Miss Adeline.* She worked for yQur pappy s brother didn t she. Yea, I knowed her well. I liked her, ~ Yes miss, Itm sort oftired. lt s hard to think. And I c an t move ab out much But I ~ot ~y hose and I go t lay wife and we re comfortable. Thank you. 1 Intervieweras note: I left him sitting and rocking gently in a homs-niade hickory stationary swing eyes half closed looking out across his yard and basking in the waria sunshine of late afternoon, * The Adeline Blakely of another Arkansas interview ~ ~ith slaves.

[Interview with Goodridge, Jake] 058 053

Interviewer Mi.. Irene Robertson u_rn ~__ __. -_ -w ~ ~ N ~ -- - -~- ~ ~ - ~ ~ Parson interyi.wsd ~e Ooodrid~ ~ndo~n~ 4~kanaat Ap 97? 87 ii about correct ~ a -~~-- - - ~ Born Augt~st 4, 1857 *1 was born close to Jackson, Tennessee in ~dison County. My aaeter was Batford leath rs. Hie wife s ne was 8ussn Weathers. They had a big family ~ John, Lidy, Mattie, Pofly, Betty, and Zininy, that I recollect end there might er been ao~ more. My parents ne~~ was Naroiesu~ and Jacob 000dridg.. I had one brother that was a Tanks. soldier, and five ai~ters. One sister did live in Texas. They all dead fur as I ~ow. I. got soatterd. 8o~ of ne got inherited fors freed~n. Jake Goodridge took along ehen h. went to the .fl~ to wait on him. Right there it was me~ en ~y brother fightin agin one nother. When we c~ to St. Charles we ccmi to Memphis on freight boxes no tops ~ flat cars liks. There a heap more soldiers was waiting. Je got on a boat ~ a great big boat. There was on. regiment Indiana Cavalry, one Kansas, on Missouri one Illinois. All on deck was th. horses. Thers was 1 200 ~n in a reginont and four regiiients ~ 4,800 horses and four cannons. There was not settin down room on ths boat. They captured my master and sent him to prison. First they pit him in a callaboos. and then they cent him on to prison end they took ~ to help them. They made a waitin boy of ~. I didn t lack none of em. They cussed aU. the ti. I heard they parolled my master long time after the war.

059 054

2. 54 *ft y would shoot a cannon, had a sponge on a long rod. They wipe it out and put in a~th.n big ball, get way back and pill a rope. The cannon fire agin. Course I was scared. ___________________ ~1?1Q~~5 that bout how long I was in ths war. I was twelve or fourteen years old. I recollect it as well as if lt was yesterday. They never had a battle at St. Charles while I was there. They loaded up the boat end took us to Little Rook. They ~istered out thins. The ~Ysnke. soldiers give ~it news of freedom. They was shouting round. I je. stood around to ~ee whut they goiner do next. Didn t nobody give me nuthin . I didn t know what to do. Everything going. Tents O - all gone, no place to go stay end n~thln to sat. That was the big freedom to us colored folks. That the way white folks fightin do thi colored folks. I got hungry and naked end cold niany a time. I had a good aesten end I thought h. always treated i~ h.ap better than that. I wanted to go back but I had no way. I made it dom to 8t. Charles in bout a year after the surrender. I started farmin I been farain even since. In Little Rook I found a job in a tin pin alley, pickin up balls. Thi.aan paid ~ $12 a ~nth, next to starvation. I think his name was Warren Rogers. RI went to Thdisn Bey bout 1868 and farn~d for Mr. Hathisy, thin Mr. Dineen. Then I cc~ up to Clez endon end been here ever since. ROne tii~ I owned 40 acres at Holly Qt~ ove, sold it, spent th. money. NI too old~,I don t fool aid no votin . I never did take a big stock in sich foolishness. ~I live wid wy daughter and white folks. The Welfare glss mo $8 a month. We got a ~rden. No cow. No hog. No chickens.

060 055

5. 55 RTh. pr..ent condition. ssm pretty bad. Scm do work and sc~ don t work. Nobody eavin that I eeoc. Takes it all to live on. I haben t giY. the present generation a thought.*

[Interview with Goodrum, John (John Goodson)%Goodson, John (John Goodrum)] 061 056

A ~-~ ~J f !~_ Interviewer j~onQ Rotso~L~ ~ Person mt erviewed J ohnGood8on (Goodrum)~ Des Arc~Arkansas A~e _ ~ &rn in 1865 My master was Bill Goodrwa. I was born at Des Arc out in the country close by here. My mother was a house woman and my father was overseer. I was so little I don t remember the ~iar. I do remeiaber Doc~ Rayburn. I seed him and remember hirn all right. He was a bushwacker and a Ku Klux they said. I don t remember the 1~i Klux. Never seed theni. I heard nay parents say they e~cpectod the government to divide up the land and give thorn a start ~ a home and some land. They ~ot just turned out like you turn a hog out the pen and say go on l in through wid you. I heard theta set till midnight talking bout whut all took place during the Civil ~ar. The country was wild and it was a long ways be-. tween the houses. There wasn t many colored folks in this country till closin of the war. They started bringing em here. Men whut needed help on the farms. ~A1l my life I been cooking. I cooked at hotels and on boats. I cooked some in restaurants. They say it was the heat caused rae to go blind. I cooked up till 1927. The last folks I cooked for was on a boat for Heckles and wade $ales up at Au ?usta, Arkansas. I done carpentry work some when I was off of a cooking job. I never liked farmin much. have done a little of that alone between times too. My main job is cookIng.

062 057

2. I voted a1on~ when I could see. I ain t voted lately. I slio lack8 thi8 President. . I had a house and lot ~ this one but I couldn t pay taxe s. We still living in it. We got a garden. No hog, no cow. We made our hoene when I cooked and my wife wa8hed and ironed. I think this new generation of colored folks is awful. They can ~et work if they would do it. Times is ~ettin wor8e. They work some if the price suit em1if it don t1they steal. They spend bout all they make for shows, whiskey and I don t know whut all. The Social Welfare cives me ~8 a month, My wife does all the washing and ironin 8he can get. We are doin very well. I don t understand much bout votin and picking out canidates. It don t hurt if the women want to vote. Only songs I ever heard was corn songs. I don t remember none. They make em up out in the fields. Some folks good at making up songe. One I used to hear a whole heap was It goiner be a hot time in the old time tonite. Another one If you liker me Ilker t liker you. We both l!ker the same I don t remember no more them songs. I used to hear ein a whole lots. Yes out in the fields.

063

EDITOR S NOTE: Pages 58 ~to 62 have been withdrawn after numbering.

[Interview with Washington, Jennie] 064 063

~ ~- ~ ~r; ~ 63 ~ - ~ s ~ ~~ThOii8~ E*o~s~ cy L Per3on iE~terviewed ~ Govan~ ~sse11vi11ej~kansa8 Age~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ *Georg. OOT~U is my name and I waa born in Conway County aon~iheres In Deoemb r 1886- I guess it was about de aevetiteenth of December. We lived there till 1911, when I come to Pope County. Both my pare~te iiae slaves on de plantation of a Mr. Coven near Charleston, South Carolina. 1~t a where we got our name . Folks cciv to Arkansas after dey was freed. No sir, I am t edioated..-~never had de chance. Parente been dead a good many years. Tas euh, my folks used to talk a heap and tell - lots of tales of . slavery days, and how d~ patrollere used to whip em ehen day wanted to go sons place and dn t have de demit to go. Yas euh, dey had to have a demit to go any place outside work hours. ~y whipped my mother and father both sometimes and dey an s was afraid ot dem patrollers. Used to say, If you don t watch out de patrollers ll git yo~t. ~y d catch de slaves and tie em up to a tree or a poe and whip em wid ~xg~ whips and rawhidss. Some of de slaves was promised land and other thiiigs when dey was freed, and some sn t promised nothin Some got land and a span of na~les and some didn t get in No ~h, my daddy t fana none at tiret after he was freed because he didn t have no ~ney to buy land, ~t he done odd jobs here and there till he c~e to Arkansas seven or eight years after the War.

[Interview with Govan, George] 065 064

2. Yea, I owns my own home ; been livin in it for ten years, since I ve been workin ae Janitor at dis Centre . Presbyterian Church. I belon a to de Missionary Baptis Church, but ~y parents wore both Methodista. Sure did have lot8 o~ good SOfl~8 in de old days, like Old Ship of Zion and On 3~ordan s Stormy Banks. Used to have one that begins Those that fuse to sing never knew my God It was a purty piece ; and then there was another one about a Rough, rocky road. De young people today has nitch better opportunities than when I was a child, and much better than dey had. in slavery days, because dar ain t no patrollers to whip em, Most of era dese days has ~rty good behavior, and I think dey re better than in de old days. ~I has always voted regularly since ~ I come of age ~votes de Republican ticket. Can t read but a little, but I never bad any trouble about votin . NO~: c~ea ge Qovan is an intelligent Negro, fairly neat in his dress, very tall and erect in stature. Brogue quite noticeable, and occasional Idioms that make his interview interesting and personal.

[Interview with Grace, Julia] 066 065

#712 65 Interviewer - - ---- - - - Mrs .~ ~rnice Bowden Person interviewed 3\ilia Grace 819 N. Spraee Street) Pine Bluff, Arkansas I was seventy.4our this last past fourth of J u1y~ I was born in Texas, My mother was sent to Texas to keep ftom bein freed. ~ Ad March and Spru.ce MeCrary is the onliest white folks I rexaember bein with, I don t know whether they was our owners or not, My father was sent to North Carolina and I never did see hin no mores After freedom they brought us back here from Texas and we worked on the MeCrary plantation. In slavery days marna said she and my father stayed in the woods most of the time~ That s when they was whippin en. My mother come fron Richmond, Virginia. Petersburg was her town. She belonged to the V~e1lses over them, After her iriaster ~ot his le~ broke, the rest was so mean to her she run off a couple times, so they sold her. B~t her up on the tradin block.. like soin to m~ike a speech. Stripped en naked. The man bid en off like you d bid off oxen, Mama told me her misais, after her husband died, ~ot so r~ean to her she run off till her old raissis sold her. They weighed ein and stripped em naked to see if they ~as anything wroxi~ with em and how they was built and then bid era off. Mama said she never would a been in Arkansas if they hadn t been so mean to her. They were too compulsive on em~ ~you know, hard taskmasters,

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2. 66 After freedom Ad March went back to North Carolina and Spru~oe L~cCrary come here to Pine Bluff0 Fust tine I moved here in town was in 1888, 1 etayed ten month8~ then I went back to the country0 I aimed to ~o to 1~ ort ~nith but I got to talkin with niy playmates and I didn t have too much nioney, and I stayed till I didn t have enough money left to keep rue till I could ~et a jobs So I stayed here and worked for Mrs. Freemeyer till I ~ot so I couldn t work, 3h s the one got me on thi s relief, I went to school one session in 1886, Sam Caeser, he was a well~ known teacher, He ~ot killed here in Pine Bluff, ni can t sweep and I can t Iron. 1 got a misery in my back, I washes my clothes and spreads ein out till they dry, Then I puta ein on and switches into church and ever body thinks they has been ironed, They~ain t but one sign I believes in and that s peckerwoods, 4Tust as sure as he pecks three times, somebody goin to move or somebody goin to die. 3ust as sure as you live somebody goin out, One time one of my grandchildren and a friend of mine was walkin through the woods and we missed the main road we aimed to ketch, and we got into a den of wild hogs, I said, Lord, make em stand still till we get out of here. One of em was that tall and big long ears hung down over his eyes. That was the male, you know. I reckon they couldn t see us and we walked as easy as we could and we got away and stiuck the main road, I re ckon j f the y could a seen us we wo~ild a been tacked but we got away, I had heard how they made people take to trees, and I was scared~ Have you ever seen a three~..1egged cow? Well, I have, I looked at her good. She was grown and had a calf,~

[Freed in '63.] 068 067

4,fy.~, t~)~) 4 ~ ~ \* ~ ~ - Interviewer SamuelS.Tayior Person interviewed Charle8 Graham 616 W. 27th Street, North Little Rock, Arkansa$ Age~ ~-.29-~-~ WI was born September 2?, 1859, Clarksville, Tennessee. I don t remember the county. There are several Clarksvillea throughOi~t the south. But Clarksville, Tennessee is the first and the oldest. I ~ot a chance to see troops after the Civil War was over. The soldiers were p1ayin~, boxing, and the like. Then I remember hearing the cannons roar~.-1ong toms they used to call em My uncle said, That is General Grant opening fire on the Rebels. The first clear thing I remeraber was when everybody v~as rejoicing because they were free. The soldiers were playing and boxing and chucking watermelons at one another. They had great lone ~ns called muskets. I heard em say that Abraham Lincoln had. turned ~ loose. Where I was at, they turned em loose in 63. Lincoln was assassinated in 65. 1 heard that the morning after it was done. We was turned loose lone before then. I was too young to pay much attent ion, but they were cutting up and clappin~ their hands ~id carrying on something terrible, and shouting, free, free old Abraham done turned u s loose. I was here in them days~ Heard those long toms roar! General Grant shellin the aebels! Patrollers I don t remerriber much about the patrollers except that when they been having dances, and some of them didn t have passes, they d get chased and run.

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2. 68 III they would get catched, them that didn t have passes would ~et whipped. Them that had them, they were all right. E~iausement s They had. barbecues. That s where the barbecues started frora, I reckon, from the barbecues emong the slave8. They would have corn shuckings. They would have a whole lot of corn to shuck, and they would give the corn shucking and the barbecue together. They would shuck as many as three or four hundred bushels of corn in a night. ~ometixnes, they would race one another. So you know that they must have been some shucking done. I don t believe that I know of anything else. People were ignorant in those days and didn t have many ax~n~sements. Occupations . I used to be a reg~ilar miller until they laid the raen off. Now I don t have no kind of job at all. Right after the War Some of the slaves went right up North. We stayed In Clarksville and worked there for . a year o r two In 1864 we went to Warren County Ui mois. They put rae in school. My people werejust cox~irnon laborers. They bought themselves a nice little horns. My mother s name was Anna Bailis and ray father s name was Charles Merrill. I don t remember the names of their masters. I was raised by my uncle, ~iraon Blair. His master used to be a Bailis. My father, so I was told, went off and left my mother. She was weak and ailing, so my uncle took ins. He took rae away from her

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30 69 and carried rae up North with them. My tather ran away before the slaves were freed. I never found out what became o~ hua. i: 8tayed in Illinois from the time I was five or six years old up until I was twenty one. I left there in 1880. That is about the time when Garfleld~ ran for President. I was in Ohio, seen him before he was assas~ sinated in 1882. Garfield and Arthur ran against Hancock and ~ng1ish. They beat em too. Little Rock ni used to go from place to place working first one place and then another- going down the Mississippi on beats. Monmouth, Illinois, where I was raised-~--they ain t nothing to that place. J ust a dry little ~own~ Opinions The young people nowadays are all right. There ta not so much ignorance now as there was in those days. There was ignorance all over then. The Peckerwoods wasn t much wise either. They know nowadays though, Our race has done well in refinement. I find that the Negro is more appreciated in politics in the North and West than in the south. I don t know whether it will grow better or not, I ll tell you something else. The best of these white people down here don t feel so friendly toward the North.

[Free Negroes.] 071 070

Interviewer Person interviewed_____________________________________________ ~ nI was born in ~3outh Carolina, Lancaster County, about nine miles ftc~i Lancaster town. My father s nana was TiI1~man Graham and my mother s name was ~11za. I have seen my grandfathers, but I forget their names now. Ny father was a farnierD My father and raother be1on~ed to this people, that is, to the Till.mans. On my father s side, they called my people free Negroes because they treated them so good. On my mother s side they had to get their education privately. when the white children would c~ie from school, ray mother s people would get instruction from them. My mother was a maid in the house and it was easy for her to get training that way. ~- SamuelS.Paylor ~- --~-~- ~ emes Graham 408 Maple Street, Little Rock, rkansaa~ ~r1.~ ~ 3()690

[Interview with Grant, Marthala] 072 071

j Interviewer Person interviewed A~e ~ Mrs. Bernice Bowden Marthala Grant 2203 L ~BaI~3?i~i, PineBluff, ~rkansas All I can remember is us, xiie and my baby brother. clothes. Me and my brother us up and throwed us up and ketched us. My mother would tell us bout the war. She had on some old shoe8 ~ wooden shoes0 Her white folks name was Hines. That was in North Carolina. I emigrated here when they was emigratin Thlks here. I was grown then. Thirth the war I heered the shootin and the people clappin their hands, My mother said they was fi~htin to free the people but I didn t know what freedom was. I member hearin em whoopin and hollerin when peace was dared and talkin bout it. Yea m I went to school some ~ not much. I learned a right smart to read but not much writin . we d go up to the white folks house every &inday evenin and old mistress would learn us our catechism. ~ie d have to comb our heads and clean up and go up every Sunday i . ~he d line us up and learn US our catechi~n. Wde stayed r1g~it on there after the war. They paid my mother. I picked cotton and missed babies and washed dishes. some men throwin us up in the air and ketchin Like to scared me to death. They had on funny was out in the yard ay . They just grabbed

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2. I was married when I was twenty. Never been married ~it once and my husband been dead nigh bout twenty years. When E oc~e here this town su t xm~ch sure waan t imich. Used to have old car pulled by mules and a colored ma~ had that -~ old Wiley J onea. He s dead now. I had eleven ohilden. All dead but ye. My boy what e ~ip North went to that Spanish War. He stayed till peace was declared. *After we come to Arkansas my husband voted every year and worked the county roads. I guess he voted Repiblican. I an t tell you bout the younger generation. They so east you an t keep up with them. I really can t tell you.e

[Father taught night school.] 074 073

;Yi? #733. Intervleier -~- S~mueiS.Pay1or Person Interviewed ~ 817 Hickory Street, North Little Rook, Arkansas Age~~~Q ~ - ~ - ~ My father s white to .ks were nan~d Pal Grave s. My mother was a McAdoo. Her white ~o1ks were McAdoos. Some of them are over the river now. s a great jeweiryman now. RI was born in Trenton, Tennessee My father was born round In Hum.. boldt Tennessee My mother was born in Paris Tenne asee and moved out in the country near Humboldt. He niet my mother out there and married her just a little bit bef~ore the Jar. He was a slave and she was too. He didn t go to the War; he went to the woods. He got to chasing t round. His young mistress married. She married a Graves. That was the name we was freed under. She was a Shane. She educated my father. ehen she come from school, she would teach him and just carry him right on through the course that way. That was a good while before the War. Her father gave him to her when she married Graves. He was a little boy and she kept him and edt~cated him. Graves ran a fam. I don t know just what ray father did when he was little. He was raised up as a house boy. Very little he ever done in the field, I don t know what he did after he grew up and before freedom cam. After peace was declared, he taught in night school. He preached too. His first farming was done a little altar he co~ out here. I was about seven years old then. That was in the year 1873. My mother a full naz~ was Ade .ine MeAdoo. ~fore freedom she did houas. work. She was a kind a pet with the white folks. She didn t do much farming0

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2. My mother and father had six children~.five boys and one girl, All born atter freedom. There were three ahead ot me. The oldest was boni before the War, not afterward. In my country where I was raised the Negroes weren t treed uhtil 1865. My uncle, Tim Shane-..that is the only name I ever knew him by..-, he ran away and come to this eountry and made money enough to come back and buy his freed i0 ~uat about tine he got himself paid for, the War closed and he would have been freed anyway. The money oudn t have done him no good any... how because it was all Confederate money, and when the War closed, that wasntt no good. My father ran away when the War broke out. His master wanted to carry him to the army with him and he run off and stayed in the woods three years. He stayed until his little miatress wrote him a letter and told. him she would set him free it he would cc~ houie. He stayed out till the War closed. He wouldn t take no chances on it. ~The pateroles mad.. my father do everything but q~uit. They got him about teaching night school. That was after slavery, but the paterolee still got after you. They didn t want him teaching the Negroes right after the War. He had opened a night school, and he was doing well. They just kept him in the woods then. . KuKlux ~There was a bunch of Ku Klux that a colored man id. He was a fellow by the naine of Fount Howard. They would coxr~ to his house and he would call himself showing them how to catch old people he didn t like. He told them how to catch my old ~n. I have heard my mother tell about it tii~ie and ~ime again. The funny part of it was there was a cornfield right back of the kitchen,

076 075

3. 75 J~ust about duak dark, he got up and taken a big old hor8e pistol end shot out of it, and when he tired the last shot out of it, a white man said~ tBring ~that gun here. Believe me he cut a road through that field right now0 ~They stayed round for a little while and tried to bully hie people, But the old lady stood up to them, so they finally carried her and her children in the house and told her to tell him to come on back they wouldn t hurt him. ~And they didn t bother him no mOre. My motherts master told my mother that she was free. He called aU the slaves in and told them they were free as he was. I don t think he give them anything when they were treed, He was a kind a poor fellow. Didn t have but six or seven slaves. He offered to let them stayand make crops, My father had a better job than that. Did you ever know Bishop Lane out in Tennessee? My father and he were ordained at the sa~ time in the sa~ C M. E Church. Then he moved to Kentucky and joined the A. M. E Church. My father died in 1875 and my mother in 1906. WI have been married forty-~seven years. I married on the twenty~sixth day of December in 1889. I heard my mother and father say that they married In slavery time and they just jumped over a broom. I don t belong to no church. I am off on a pension. I got a good job dom nothing. My pension is paid by the Railroad. I put up forty tour yeara as a brakeman and five years on ditching trains before I went to braking. My old road master put ~ on the braking. A fellow got his tingers cut off and they turned his keys over to me and put me to braking and I went there and stayed, ~ RI have two children. Both of them are livthg...-a girl and a boy. I have had a big bunch of young people round ~ ever since I married.

077 076

A .~. n:) Raised a couple ot nephews. Then my two. All of them married. That la my daughter e oldest child r1~ht there. (He pointed to a pretty brownakin gir1-~-ed,) My father died when I was eight, and I wa~ away from home railroading most of the time and didn t hear much about old times from my mother. So that s all I kuow~ I have lived right here on this spot for forty~three years. About 1893 1 bought this place and have lived here ever since0 This was just a big woods and weed patch then, There weren t more than about six houses out here this side of the Rock Island Railroad, I commenced voting In 1889. Cast my first ballot then, I never had any trouble about it.

[Interview with Gray, Ambus] 078 077

-~ ~i) ?)-~/ ~ Interviewer ---~s---- - ~_ ~ .tr~~ p~_~ P.i~aon intervi.wectAmbua ~aj; IIJ.D. f ~ ~ 4~kanaaa~ ~ \ ~ ~I was ten year old when the Civil War come on. I was born Tallapooay County, Alabama. I belong to 3 im Gray. I recollect th. paddyrollere. I don t recollect the ~x Klux Klan. Ther was twelve boys and two girle in our family in tim. I waa among the older set. Bout all I remembers bout slavery was how hard the hande had to work. We aho did hat to work! When we wasn t denn new ground end rollin pine log. an burnin bruah we was er buildin tencse and ahuokin an ahellin corn. Women you don t know nufin boat work! W. der new groun all day den burn brush and pile logs at nite. We build fences all day and kill hog. and shuck corn dat night. No use to say word bout bein tird. Never h~?d nobody complainin. They went right on singin or whielin~, Started out plowin and drappin corn then plentin~ cotton. Choppir~ time co~ on then pullin fodder and 1eyin~ by time be on. Be bout big nisetin time and bout to that er was over everybody was dun in the cotton field till dun cold weather, I remembers how they sho did work. - Both my parents was field hands. They stayed on two years after the war was over. 11m ~ay raised red hogs and red corn, whooper will peas. He kept a whole heap of goats and a flock of shssp.

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2. 78 *we didn t ~e no r~1 hard time after ths war. We w nt to Osorgia to work on Arastrongi term. W. didn t stay there long. Is ient to Atlanta and m.t a toilez huntin hands down at 8ardie, Mississippi. I. coi~ on there. Bob Richardson brought the family out here. I been here round Biaooe 58 year. *en it was eho nut swamps sud woods. .1 don t think the Ku Klux ev.r got after any us but I assn am, I recksn. I don t know but mighty little. The paddyrollera is what I dreaded. Sometime the overseer was a paddyroller. My tolks didn t go to war. We didn t know what the war was Thr till it had been going on a year or so. The news got airoulated round ths North was fighting to give the black ~n freedcm. 8o~ of em thought they said that so theId follow and get in the lines, help out. Soete did go long, so~ didn t want to go get killed. Nobody never got mithin, didn t know much when it was freedom. I didn t ass ch difference for a year or mors. Is gradually quit gsttin~ provisions up at ths house end had to take a wagon and team and go b~y what we bad. We dldn t have near as ~ioh. Money then like it is now, it don t ~iy ~ch. It made on differnce. You could change places and work for differsnt ~n. They had ovsrssera just th. esme aa they did in slavery. The Reconstruction time was like this. You go up to a man and tell him you and your family want to hire ter next year on his place. He say I m broke, the war broke ~. Move down there in the best empty house you find. You can get your provisions furnished at certain little store in the closest town about. You say peser. When the crop ~d bout aU you got was a little money to take to give the man what run you

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5. 79 and you have to stay on or etarve or go g.t somebody iLse 1.t you shar. crop wid them. Le the ti~ cc~ on the blaok man ~te to handle a littis mo silver and greenbacks than he ueed to. 8lavee didn t hardly ever handle any money long as he live. He nevex buy nothin, he hare no use for mony. White folkB burned money dunn the war. Some of thee had a heap or money. I hare voted )~at I don t keep up wid it no mo. It been a long ti~ since I voted. Thu ia the white rolke country an they goinr run it theireoirea. No uaen me vote. No use the women votin ae I aes it. ~Tea makes mo votee to count. The rich white man is goiner run the country anyhow. ~I far~et all my lits. I been here in Bieooe tifty-ei~ht yeere. I worked for Richardson, Biscoe, Peeplea, Nail. I owned a home, paid $150 for it. I mad. it in three year. when had go.d slops. Tiwse are harder now than I ever seen a her. It you have a hog you have to pen it up and buy fe.d. If you have a cow, when ths grass die, ehe is to tsed. ir you have chickens ther ain t no uss talkin, they starve if you don t teed e~. No money to ~ty em wid an no money to buy feed for ~. Times is hard. Darin the cotton boou times do fine (cotton picking tii~). The young tolke is happy. They ain t got no thought of the future. Mighty hard to make young roiks think they ever get old. They. lookin at right now. Ravin em a good time while they young.

[Interview with Gray, Green] 081 080

SO&20 80 Intervlew.r ~isaIrne Robertson Person interviewed ~e.a~~ ai; RJ.D. frL Biaco.. Arkauaaa ~ ~I Was born after de war in Alabama. Then we went to Atlanta, Georgia. Bout the tiret I recollect much bout was in Atlanta. I wae aeventeen years old. They wae Ixtilding the town back up wher it had been burnt. If you waa a carpenter you could get rough work to do. My father wa. a farmer and had a family; soon aa he could he oon~ with a man he mt up wid to Sardie, liesiasippi. He had twelv children. Some of em born down in Mississippi. The reason we aU went to Atlanta wae dia -~ we was workin ter a man, white men, nen*d Arinatrom. White woman told me go do somethin, bring in a load si wood I think it was, end my mother told me not to do it. K. and my father had a fuss an he tied my father to some rails and ~hoop.d him. Soon as they done that we ail left. They hunted us all night long. Crowd white folks said they goiner kill us. Some fellow come on to Atlanta and told us bout em huntin us. Thater way folks done. It imister been bout the very closin of the wer cause I heard ~ say I a give to my young mistress, Saille Gray. I don t remember who they eay ehe marrlJ I never did live wid em long tore my papa took ~. The tiret ires school was in PInola County, Mississippi. I went to it. The teacher wae a white ~n nenw,d George Holllday.

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2. I votea a Republican ticket. Misa, I don t know nothin much bout votin, caislonly I vote to help my aide out a little. We used to elect our town officers lier-e in Biscoe ~it the white folks run it now. Professor Hardy and Protessor Walker was the postmasters (both Negroes) for a long while. 3~ohn Clay was constable and Oscar Clark magit~trate (both Negroes). One of the school board was Dr. Odom (Negro). They made pretty fair off icera. I wa8 a cow herder, and a fire boy, and a farmer. When I co~ to Biscoe I was a farmer. I married and had two children. My wife lef me sud went wid another fellar then she jumped in the river right down yomder and drowned. I started ~rkin at the saimill and workin in the lumber. I owns a little home and a apot of ground it on 25 X 90 . I made it workin fer Mr. Betzuer (white farmer). I m farmin now. Times is hard. You can t get no credit. Between times that you work in the crop it is hard to live. Used to by workin hard and long hours could make a good Ilvin. Wages better now, $1 to ~1.7~5 a day. Long time ago 6O~ a day was the price. Then you could buy meat five and six cents a pound. Now it 20 . Flour used to be 40 a sack. Now it way outer sight. The young folks don t work hard as I used to work but they has a heap better chance at edgercation. Some few saves a little but everything jes so high they can t get ahead very much. It when you get old you needs a little laid by.

[Interview with Gray, Neely (Nely)] 083 082

#666 D ) Interviewer Person interviewed Age 8? ~ .~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I was born in Virginia, Dr. 3~enkins bought my mother from a man nan~d Norman. Brought us here on the boat I know I was walkin and talkin . I don t rem~nber about the trip, but I ren~mber they said they had to keep me out from fallin in the river. I was too playified to remember anything about it. Thxrin the War I was a girl six or seven years old. Big enough to fluas my mother s next chile and she was walkin and talkin fore surrender. My mother was puahin a hundred ehen she died. I was her oldest chile. Sold with her. . ~Dr. Tenkins had three women and all of em had girls. Raised up in the house. Dr. Jenkins said, Doggone it, I want my darkies right back of my chair. He never did aise his colored tolka. He waa a cepted (exceptional) man~ so different. I never saw the inside of the quartera, ~Dr. Ynk house waan t tar from the river. You could hear the boats goin up and down all night. nI was scared of the Yankees cause they always p inted a ~tn at me to 86~ me run. They d come in the yard and take anything they wanted, too. After surrender mama went and cooked for a ~n named Bardin, Hardest time I ever had was when I got groin. and had to take care of my mother and sister. Worked in the field. I was married out from behind a plow. Never farmed no ~ Ifra. Bernice Bowden - NeslyGrey 818 E. Fifteenth, Pine Bluff, Arkansas

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2. 83 My tust Irnaband was a railroad man. I t led to keep up with h1~ ~it he went too taat ; I couldn t keep up. Be got so bad they finally blackballed hirn from the road. I tell you nobody knows what it le till you go through with it. I ve had my bitter3 with the sweet. Been married tour times and I ve buried two husbands. I just raised one chile and now she s dead. &~t I got great gra~dchllluu--thlrd genera tion- in Itouston, Texas, but I never hear trcm em. RI get along all right. The Weleare helps me and I try to live right.

[Interview with Gray, Neely (Nely)] 085 084

84 Interviewer~ Mrs. Bernice Bowden Person interviewed N1y Gray - 821 Z~. 18th Avenue Pine Bluff, Arkansas A e~ 84 Occupation Does a little QUj1tin~ Yes raa m, I was sold fran Richmond, Virginia. Dr. Yenkins bought my mother when I was a little girl walkin and talkin ~ Put me up on the block and sold me too. I was bout three years old. Dr. Jenkins was rni~hty good to his hands. Say he was goin to raise his little darkies up back of his chair. He thought lots of his colored folks. I member seem the Rebels ridin horses, three double, down the road time of the war. I used to run oft from rnwna to the county band ~ right where the roundhouse is now. Mama used to have to come after me. You know I wasn t no baby when I shed all my teeth dunn slavery days. Yankee soldiers? Oh Lord seed em by fifties and hundreds. Used to pint the ~un at me jest to hear rae holler and cry. I was scared of em. They come in and went in Dr. Jenkins dairy and got what they wanted, And every morning they d blow that bu~gle bugle as long as a broom handle. Heard em blow Glory, ~lory Hallelujah . I liked t o hear em blow lt. Yankees marched all up and down the river road. They d eat them navy beans. I used to see where they throwed em in the fence corner. Saw so many I don t like em now, They called em navy beans and I called era soldier beans. I niexnber it well. I m a person can remember. Heap a folks tel). what other folks see but I tell what I see. Don t tell what nobody told me and what I heard.

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2. 85 ni member when they had the battle In Pine Bluff. We was bout thx e. miles froiii hare when they tit up here. I member all of lt. They started to send us to Texas and we got as far as the ravine when they heard the Yankees wasn t commt 80 ~6 wexit back hcnie. I, ~ stayed round the house with the white folks and didn t kxiow what nothin was till after surrender. We stayed with Dr. Jenkins for a week or two after surrender, then a man come and took my mother down in the country. I don t know what she was paid ~ she never did tell us her busifleas. I was marna a onliest girl and she worked me day and night. Hoed and picked cotton and sewed at night. Mama learned me to knit and I used to crochet a lot. She sure learned me to work and I ain t sorry. I worked in the field till I co~ out to marry a rallroa& man. I never went to school but two or three months in my life directly after freedo~i. My husband was a good scholar and he learned n~ how to read and write. I learned my daughter how to read and write so when she started to school they didn t have to put her in the chart class. When she was six years old she could put down a figger as quick as you can. Been married four times and they s all dead now. Ain t got nobody but myself ir it wasn t for the white folks don t know what d do. I used to cook for Dr. Higginbotham when she had company. She couldn t do without old Nely. One time she sent for x e to cook some hens. I soaked em in soda water bout an hour and tried em and you couldn t tell em from triera. ~I m weak in my limbs now but I believe In atirrin . Welfare helps me but I quilts for people. Yes m, I stirs ~ it I didn t I just couldn t stead ft.

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3* 86 ~ S Thia here younger generation is gone They am t goin -~ they a gone. Books ain t done no good. I used to teach the Bible lesson once a week, but I don t fool with em now. Lin t got no mannera ~ chewa gum and whispers. S I got great grand children lives in Houston and they don t give me a penny. I don t know what I d do if twasn t for the are. Used to wash and Iron. I ve Ironed twenty shirts in onei~halt a day.

[Interview with Green, Henry "Happy Day"] 088 087

0 30730 8~ Thtervlewer Miss Irene Robertson Persbn Interviewed Uappy 1~y Green Ne rBarton and Helena, Arkansas Age ~~~ own durin~gtheC1vfl War NI don t know how old I is, young mistress. I was here tore the Civil War, young mistress. 1 was born. in South, Alabama, young mistress. Well lt was nigh Montgomery, Alabama, young mistress My in~r ~ nen~ Emily Green. ~he had three children to my knowing. I don t know no tather. My owner was Boss William Green, young mistress. His wife was Miss Lizabuth, young mistress. They did have a big family, young mistress. To my kx~owing it was: Billy, charlie, ~nkum, Ida, Mary, Sally, ~in~my, ~.tddy. I never went to school a day in my lite, young mistress. When I come on big nuft to work I had to help keer tor xn~ia and two girl sisters, young mistress. Then I come to this state, Van Vicks and Bill Bowman Immigrated one hundred head of us. They landed s~ of us at Helena. Our family was landed at Phillips Bayou, young mistress. I was a coiboy, me and Ge orge He was another black boy, young mie.. tress. We kept flies offen Boss William Green and Miss Lizabuth, young mistress. They took naps pi.trt nigh every day when it be the long days ( in sunmier ) young nil stre as. Mama was milk w ax . Boss William Green had goats and bout a dozen heads of milch cows, young mistress. I was willed to Mars Billy. Ee went ort to war and died fore the War begun, young mistress. Nobody run way from Boss William Green. He told em ii they run off he wouN whoop em. He didn t have no dogs, young mistress. They be a white man near by owned nigger hounds, young mistress He take hi s hounds,

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2. 88 go hunt a runaway, young mistress. You would pay him, I reckon, young ~I did get &zne whoopings, young mistress. They used a cow hide atrap on me, young mistress. They blistered me a right smart, young mistresa. We didn t have so much to eat. They give us one peck meal, tour ~-- pound8 meat a weeks Mains done our cooking, young mistress. We had good clothes, warm clothes, woolen clothes, young mistress. We had a tew sheep about the place ~ le had a few gee se mong the turkeys guineas ducks and chickens. They kept the peafowla for good luck, young mistress. *Ftir a fact they had a big garden, young mistress. Boss William Green worked the garden. He made us pull the plow- -4our o~ us boys. He said the stock would tromp down znore n they d make, young mIstress. Two of his boys and ins and George ~*i1led his plough. We had a big garden. I chopped in the field, picked up chips on the clearings. I chopped cook wood rig~it sn~rt, young mistress. When freedom come on, grandpa come after i~a ~a. Boss William Green told her, You free. He give her ten bishels corn, good deal of meat.back bone and spareribs. He come one Saturday evening, young mistress. She took long whatever she had at our house in the way of clothing and such lack, young mistress. Well, grandpa was share crapping, young niia. tress. The Ku Kiuckses come one night They kept us getting em water to run through something under the ir sheets. The water was running out on the ground. We did see it for a fact, young mistress. We was scared not to do that. They was getting ~i1inission over the country, young mit~tress. They would make you. be quiet long the roadsi~1e, young mistress.

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30 89 They would make you be q~uiet where you have meeting. They would turn the pots dbwn on the floor at the doors, young mistress. The Ku Kiuckses whooped some, tied some out to trees end left ~ They was rough, young mistress. I worked in the field all my life. Times is good fer me, young mistress. I live with my niece. I get twelve dollars assistance cause I been sick young mistress. I owns a pony. All I owns, young mistress. . I hab voted, young mistress. l in too old to vote now, young mistress. I reckon I voted both ways some, young mistress. Young folks is so strong and happy they is different fr i old folks, young mistress,

[Interview with Green, Henry] 091 090

f ~ (~~4h4(Th ~ (t; 9() Interviewe~~r ~ ~ ~-~- ~--- ~ - . Person Interviewed Henry~Green~ Barton,~ Arkanaaa Ags~~___9O_~~_ ~. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Uncle Henry Green, an ex. alave ninety years of age, is affectionately known thro~ighout a large part ot Phillips County as ~Bappy DayR. This nickname, acquired in years long past, was giTon him no doubt partly on account ot his remarkably happy disposition, b~tt mainly on account ot his love for the old religious song, ~Happy 1~y , that Uncle Henry has enjoyed so long to sing and the verses of which his voice still carries out daily over the countryside each morning prcmptly at daybreak and again at sun.~ down, Uncle Henry and his old wife, Louisa, live with Uncle Henry s sister, Mattie Harris, herself seventy-~five years of age, on a poor forty acre farm that Mattie owns in the Hyde Park coirnunity just off the main highway between Walnut Corner and West Helena. Henry acts as janitor at the bitherian Church at Barton and the three do ~ch farming as they are able on the thin acres and with the few dollars that they receive each month train the Welfare Board together with the wppliea furnished them at the Relief Office these three old folks are provided with the bare necessities sufficient to sustain them.~ Uncle Henry, his wire ax~d sister Mattie ars the most interesting of the several. exislave Negroes in this county whom it has been my pleasure and good fortune to interview. As I sat 11th them on the porch of their old~. rambling log house the following incidents and acc*znt ot their lives

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2. 9i1 were given with Uncle Henry talking and Mattie and Loulaa offering occaaional explanations end aorreotion: ~ air, BOBS Man, my right n~ i8 Henry G~sen but eberybody, dey ail 08.118 nIB Happy Day ~ 1~t is de naine whut moe all calia n~ fex 80 long 110W dat heap of de folks dey t eben know dat my nwae la aho wit Henry Green. I aho ain t no baby, Bosa )Ian, kase I is been here er long tine dat I is and near as I kin o~ at hit I is ninety years old er mo, kase Mattie sey dat de lady in de cote-houas tell her dat I is nlnety. to, en dat ~z three years er go. I is er old nigger, Boss Man, en er bout de onliest old p~sson whut is let er round here in dis part of de county. I means whut is sho nut old, en what wt~z born way bak in de alabery t imes way to de peace wuz dared, . ~Us iz borned, dat is me en sister Mattie er way bak dere in Souf Alabama, down below Montgomery, in de hUis, en on de big place whut our oie marster, William Green, hed, en whar de tanyard witz. Yo see, old marster, he runned er big tariyard wid all de res of he bizness, whar dey tau de hides en mek de shoes en leather harness en sich lak, en. den too, marster, he raise eberything on de place. All whut he need fer de niggers en he own fambly, lak cotton, wheat barley, rice en plenty hogs en cows. ~ Itfen peace hadn t er been dared en Marss Billy hadn t er died I wuz gwine ter be Marse Billy s property, kase I witz already willed ter Morse Billy. Marse Billy wu.z old Marater William Green s oldest son chile, en Morse Billy claimed r~ all de while, Mars. Billy, he went off to de War whar he tukkin sik en died in de camp, fore he cud eben git in de :ritin. SAtter de War iuz ober en peace cum, my gmndmeimny en my grandpappy, dey cum en got my inaunny en all us chillun en tuk us wid d~i ter Mont gon~ry~

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3. 92 en dat in~iz whar us wuz when dem two Yankee mane lzrimigrated us here ter Arkanaaa. Dey Immigrated er bout er hundred head er niggera at de a~e time dat US OWn. My grandpappy en my grand~nmy, dey dldn t belong ter old Marater William Green. I jist don t know whut white folks dey did belong ter, but I knows dat dey sho own en got my manmiy en us ehillun, Old marater, he rieber mine dem erleavin en tole em dat dey~ree, en kin go if Us Want ter go, en when us left old marster gib ~iianmiy ten bushels er corn en some hog heads en spareribs en tole her ter bring de chillun bak er gin fore lon~ kase he gwine ter ~ib all de chillun some shoe s at de tanyard, but Us neber did go bak ter git dem shoes kase we wu.z in~nigrated soon atter den, No sir, Boss Man, we don t know nuthin bout who our pappy ~z, ~r iuzn t no niggera much in slabery t imes whut knowed nuthin ~ bout dey pappys. I~y je8 knowed who dey m~nunya is. 1~ts all dey. knowed bout date Us neber hab no pappy, Jea er ra~iny winit iu~z name &ni .y Green4 RBOS8 Mau, yo see how black I is en kinky dat my hair la en yo can see dat me en sister Mattle is sho p.ire niggers Nid flO brown in us. Well, yo know one thing, BOBS Man, en dis is aho whut my mauiny done tole us er heap er times, en dat i8 dat when I wuz born dat de granny woman runned ter old mie en taU her ter curn en look at dat baby wbut ~nily done gibed birth ter, and dat I ~z nigh bout white en hed straight hair en blue eyes, en when old mis seed me dat she so mad dat she gib inanmiy er good stroppin kase I born lak dat but hit warn t long atter I born tore I gits black, en old mie see den dat I er pure nigger, en den she t.ll manviy dat she sorry dat she stropped her bout n~ being white en er habin blue eyes en straight hair. No air, Boss Man, I jes don t know how curn I change but dat sho Is whut merr~y did tell us. Sister Mattie, she know dat.

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4. 93 ~Yea sir, Boas Man, I kin tell you all er bout de old alabery ti~e~ en cordin ter whut I es thinkin en fer as me myself la, wid de t1n~8 80 tight lak dey is now days wid me and all de t1x~ be er stud in bout how ter git er long, hit ~id be er heap better fer hit to be lak hit wuz den, Icase lie E8beI hod mithin ter worry bout den cept ter do dat whut we iuz tole ter do, en aU. de eatin en de C .OeS iuz gib ter Ua. Our inarater trained u.a up right, fer ter do our wuk good en ter obey whut de white folks eey en ter aho be polite to de white fOlks, en atter ue let old aiarater den our znanmiy she trained US de s~ way, en ~ la always polite, kase ~n&inera la cheap. All de nigger ohillun in elabery t1~ wore alips, bote de gala en de boys0 1~re vuzn t no breechea fer de littl ones eben atter dey git old enuf tei wuk en go ter de fiel s, dey still wear dem alipa, en dey used ter teed us outen dem big wooden bowls ibut dey mix de bread up In, wid son~tlxnes de pot.likker, en sometimes mostly wid de milk, en da chillun, dey go atter dat grub en git hit all ober dey faces en dey hands en dey slips en er bout de time dey git through eatin de old mis she ct~ out Sn when dey through old mie, she hab em ter wash dey hands en faces nice en clean. On dem &indaya dat de marater went ail de niggera ter go ter church ter de preachin he send dem all de order ter wash up good en clean en put on dey clean does en git ready fer de preachin en fuat ter cum up dar whar he waltin ter see dat dey look good en nice en clean, en when us git up dar ter de house lookin fresh en good, de marater s folks, dey talk lak dis ter one er nudder; dey sey: Look er hers at my nig~r, Benry~ d.at boy is lookin fin.. Be is gwlne ter be er big healthy aan en er good wukke en atter dey all done looked all de nig~r. ober dey tell ein

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5. 94 ter be ~w1ne on ter de church en dey go on en ait in de bak belilne all de white :tolka en hear de white man preach. I~r i~izn t no nigger preachera in dem days dat I ever eeed~ ~ Now I know dat yo has heazd of dem paddyroliera. Well, I tell yo~ Boas Man, dom paddyrollers, dey wu~z bilioua. E~y iuz de mens whut rid out on de roads at night ter see dat all dem niggera whut wuz out en off dey marater s places hed er pasa frem dey marstera. ~m paddyrollere, dey iixd etop er nigger whut dey find out at night en sey, Boy, whar yo gwine? En le yo got yo paas? En de Lewd help dem niggers whut dey cotch wid~it dat pass. Iffen er nigger be cotch out et night widout de paea writ down on de paper trum he rnarater, en dem paddyrollera cotch him, dat nigger aho hat ter do sum good prayln en pretty talkin er elae dey tek him ter whar dey got four stobs drove down In de groun en dey tie he hans en feet ter dein stobs en den ware him out wid er big heaby strop. J~ xno test reason dat sometimes de niggers out at night is on account dey courtin sc~ gal whut libes on some udder place. When yo see de paddyrollers er comin en yo ain t got no pass writ down on de paper en ye don t want ter git er stroppin, den de on.lieat thing ter yo ter do Is ter run en try ter git on yer marster s place fore dey git yo, er try ter dodgs em er aomepin lak dat. Iffen de paddyrollera got dem nigger hounds wid ein when de nigger break en run, den de onliest thing dat de nigger kin do den is ter iuk de conjure. He kin wu.k dat conjure on dein hounds in seberal different ways. 1~at, he kin put er liddle tuppentine on he feet er in he shoe en. er lot er times dat will frow de hounds oft de track, er else, iffen he kin git er hold er soins fresh dirt whar er grabe ain t been long dug, en rub dat on he feet, den dat Is er good conjure, en ~ dan dat iffen he kin git ter catch er yearlin calf by der tail en step in de drappine whar dat calf

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6. 95 done nuuied er long wid him er holdin on ter de tail, den dat la a sho conjure ter mek dem hounds lose de track, en dat nigger kin dodge de paddy~ rollers. ~ ~lak I sey, Boas Man, bout de onliest thing dat de nigger. In slabery tIne wd lebe de place at ni~it fer, ~~id b dey courtin , en mostly den on er Wednesday er Saturday night, so I gwine ter tell yo how dey eon~tInee dodge de paddyrollers whilat dey courtin dem wI~na at nI~it. To see, moe all de wiiii~ens, dey be er iukkin at night on dey tasks dat der. old mie gib em ter do, er weavin er de cloth. 1~ee wiuiuens viid be er settin roun de fire weavin de cloth en de nigger be dar too er court in de gal en all ter once here curn dem paddyrollera, ac~ at de front door en soie at de back door, en when de winunena er hear em er comm1 dey raise er loose plank in de tb whut dey done zr~de loose ter dis bery pup~ia, en de nigger he den drap right quick down z~eath de tb twix de jista, en de wi~ ~eza den slap de plank right bek in place on top er de man ter hide his, so Iffen de paddyroflera does c~ in dat dey see dat dere ain t no man in dar. I~t wu~z de way dat de niggera used ter fool em heap er tiza. 1 rimmbers dem days well when de War gym. on ylt I neber did se no Yankee mens er tall, en de closest dat us eber cumbed ter see de Yankees uz dat tine when old marater hod de horn blowed ter ai~nal de niggers ter git de kerrige hosaea en de milk cows off ter de woods kase he had done heard dat de Yankees witz er c~wiiu, ~it dey missed us en dein Yankees, dey neber find old marster a place. I seed aome of our sojer ~ns once, atter us let old marster en go ter Montgc~ry wid our grandpappy. Base sojer xina, dey cc~ In ter town on de train bek trum de War whar dey been fitin fer so long, en day happy en singin , dey so glad

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7. 96 dat peace done dared. Hi t wu.z er whole train full er dem Fedrit sojers,, en dey wixnmen~ en chilluns all dere er huggin en er kiasin t~p~ gmat dey git ott de train en gibin em cakes en sich good things ter eat. Yes sir, BOSS Man, de niggers wuz treated good in siabery times en wuz trained up right, ter wuk, en obey, en ter hab good manners, Oar old marster, he neber wud sell er nigger en he feed em good, ~n dey lub en t spected him. Yo sho hed better ~ spect him, en iffen yo didn t dat strop wud be er flyin . A . er old inarster s niggers iuz good imiltiplyin peoples, I~y sho wu.z, en dey raise big fainblies. t~ta one thing whut er woman lied ter be in dem days er she sho be sold quick. Iffen she ain t er goodnailtiplier dey gaine ter git shut er her rail soon. ~y tuk extra pains wid dem good xnultiplyin winimins too en neber gib dem no heaby wv.tk ter do no mo dan weavin de cloth er sich roun de place, Thilst our old marster, he neber sell no niggers, de speculators, dey hab em fer sale er plenty, en I has seed em er pasain in de road en er long string er gwine ter de place whar de sale gwine ter be, Fore dey git ter de sale place dey roach dem niggers up good jes lak dey roach er mule, en when dey put era on de block fer de white mens ter bid de price on em den dey hc~b em ter c~t de shines en de pidgeon wing ter ter 8h0w off how supple dey is, so dey bring de bes price1 Dey nebel hed no farm bells in slabery times fer ter ring en call de hans in en outen de fiel s. ~y hed horns whut dey blowed early en late. De wuk wud go on till hit so dark dat dey can t see1 I~n de horn wud blow en de nig~rs ai . curn in en git dey supper, en cook dey ash cakes in de fire whut dey b~ild in dey own cabins, Boss klan, is yo eber et er ash cake? I don t spects dat yo know how ter rzek one er dem ash cakes. I gwine ter tell yo how dat is done, 1~st yo git yo some good home groun meal

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8. en mlx hit well wid milk er water en a liddle salt an bakin powder whut yo mek outen red corn cobs, den yo pat dem cake s up right good en let em settle, den nit em In de hot ashe in de fireplace en kiver em up good wid 8Ofl~ 1110 hot ashes en wait till dey done, en Boss Man, yo sho 18 got er ash cake dat is fitten ter eat, I~ts de way dat US made em in slabery times eu de way dat us ylt meks em. Us didn t know whut white bread wuz in de old days, hardly, ceptin sometirries roun de inarster s kitchen er nigger wud git er hold of er biscuit. ~&l1 de bread dat de slabe nigger8 git wud be made outen cornmeal er dein brown shorts whut de rnarster8 gib tern in de rashion8, Us wuz all well fed d~ in slabery times en kept In good fat condition; Ebery once in er while de rnarster wad hab er cow kilt en de meat stributed out monget de folks en dey cud always draw all de rashions dat dey need0 Dey used ter hab dem big corn shuckin s too in de old days. ~ corn wud be piled up in er pile es big es er house en all de han s wud be scattered out roun dat pile er corn shuckin fas as dey cud, en atter dey done shucked dat pile er corn, oie marster wud hab two big hogs kilt en cooked up In de big pots en kitties, en den dem niggers wud eat en frolic fer de longes , mekin music wid er hand saw en er tin pan, en er dancin , erL laffin, en cuttin up, till dey tired out. ~m wuz good days, Boss Mana I sho wish dat I cud call dem times bak erginD l~ marsters whut hed de big places en de slabe niggers, dey hardly do no wuk er tall, kase dey rich wid niggers en Ian , en dem en dey famblies don t hab no wuk ter do, so de old raarsters en de young inarsters, dey jes knock erbout ober de country on dey hosses, en de young misses en de old misses, dey ride er bout in de fine kerrige wid de coachman er dein de drivin . ~y hab

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9. 98 de ober8eera ter look. atter de n~kin er d cropa, 80 de bOsses, dey je. sort er manage, en see dat de bizness go on de right way. 9~ marsters en de miasea, dey look atter dare niggere good d en see dat dey keep deinselvea clean en spectible en try ter keep de disease outen em. :~bery Monday morning dey gib em ai . er little square, broin bottle er bitters fer dein ter take dat week. ~t w~iz dere n~dicine, ~zt lifen er nigger do git sick, den dey~ sont fer de doctor right er way en hab de doctor ter zamine de sick one en soy, ~ctor, kin you do dat nigger euh good? er Do whut yo kin ter dat nigger, Doctor, kase he is er valuable han en wuth .i,~.y.t ~I neber IOEZ sick none do in my lire, but I jes nathally bea kilt, near b~t, one tI.~ in de gin when ay head git cotched twixt de lever en de band wheel en Uncle Dick hed ter prize de wheel u,p otfen ~y head ter git IM loose, en dat je. nigh bout peeled aU de skin offen ~ hsad, Old marster, he gib nie er good stroppin ter dat tooe Dat wuz fer not obeyin , kase he had done tole ai . us young niggera fer ter stay way tnim de gin houas. I vuzn t gyms ter be trained up ter wuk in de fiel s, I ~uz trained ter be er puasonal servant ter de z~rster, en si atsr Matti. ehe ~z gyms ter be trained up ter be er house w~en, en so ~iz my old wo~n, Louisa~ kase her ma~ny wuz er house w~n herself fer her white folks in 8~th Carolina, so I rekkin data de reason us always thought ~ so ~oh en better an de ginral run er niggers. Rye. air, ~a. Man, de niggera is easy fooled~ ~y always is bsn dat way, en we wuz fooled er way trum Llab~a ter Arkansas by dem two Yankee IMfla, Mr. Van Vleet en Mr. Bill Bowman, whut I tole yo er bout, dat brung dat hundred head er folks de tin us cia~ Dey tola us dat in Arkansas

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10. 99 dat d~e hogs ~ layin er roun already baked wid de knives en de torks atiokin in em ready fer ter be et, en dat der. ~z fritter ponde ebery~ whara wid de fritters er fryin in dem ponds er grease, en dat dar iu.z money trees whar all yo hed ter do wuz ter p1k de money offen ein lak pickin cotton offen de stalk, en us iu~z alto put out when us git here en fine dat de onilest meat ter be hed. wuz dat whut wuz in de ato, en dem frittera had ter be fried in de pana, en dat dar warn t no money trees er tall. Hit warn t long fore my grandpappy en my grandinaumiy, dey l t en went bak ter Alabama, 1~*~t my mammy en U8 ehillun, we jea atayed on right here In Phillips County whar us been eber since, en right en dat roc~ right dar wt~z whar us old mauiny died long yaar er go, Nell, Bose Man, yo done ax n~ en I alto gwlne ter tell yo de truf, Yea sir, I aho la voted, en I ~mbsrs de time well dat de nigger. in de cotehouse en de Red Shirts hab ter git eta out. 1~t w~tz de bee thing dat dey eber do when dey git de niggers outen de cotehouse en ajilt em frum holdin de offices, kas. er nigger not fit ter be no leader. I neber cud wu.k under no nigger. I jea nathally neber wud wuk under no nigger. I jiat voted sich er length er time, en when de Bed ~iirta, dey say dat er nig~r not good enuf ter vote, en dey stopped me trum votin en I don t mess wid hit no mo. Yea air, Bose Man, I blebe dat de Laud let me hers so long fer acss good puppose en I sho hopes dat I kin stay here rer er heap er mo years. I jea nathally lubes de ihite folks en know8 dat dey la aho gwlne ter tek care of old Happy Day en am t gwlne ter let ~ git hurt. ~De young niggere in dis day aho ain t lak de old une. Des. here young nig~rs le jas nathally de cause of all de trubble. Dey jee ain t been raised right en ter be polite lait de old onsa, ak ~

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I don t hold it er ~1n yo, kase z~bbe yo pappy en yo ~ maimny oined my pappy en my mww In elabery t 111188 en whupped em, kaae I specta dat dey needed all de ;pmiahuient whut dey got, All de education whut I ~ot Boas Man, is jes ter wuk, en obey, en ter lib ri~ht~ I knows dat I alit t here fer many mo years, Boss Man, en I eho hopes dat I kin git ter see some o~ my maraters, de G~ eena, ergin, fore I goes. I ain t neber been back since I let, en I ain t neber heard trum none of em since I been in Arkensaa, en I know en cose dat all de old uns is gone by now, but I apects dat ~om.e ot de young uns is let yit, I wud aho lak ter go back dar ter de old place whar de tanyard wuz, b~t I neber ~ud hab dat n .i~h money ter pay my way on de train, en den, I don t rekkin dat I cud fine de way nohow. I wud git 8OI~ ot de white folks ter write er letter back dar fer me iffen I know whar ter send hit er de name of so~ of my young niarsters whut mebbe is dar still. Yea sir, Boas Man, I sho hopes dat I kin see acme of dem white folks ergin, en dat sc~e of dess days dey will fine me. Yo know I is de janitor at de church at Walnut Corner whar de two hard road8 cross7 en iliar all de cars own by. De cars, dey cum by dar trum eberywliars, en so ebery Sunday morning atter I gits through er cleanin up de church, I set8 down on de bench dar close ter Mr. Gibson s sto, whar dey 8e11 de gasolene en de cold drinks en whar de cars own by trum eberywhar) en I sets dar er lookin at all dein white folks er passin in dey cars, en SOIflOtiXfles dey stop ter ter git em some ~aaolene er aumpin, en I seys ter myself dat mebbe one er my young marsters sonietine a gwine ter be in one of dora cars, en gwine ter drive up dar er lookin fer ~ Er heap er tii~8 when de cars stop dar will be er white entman in de cars whut git out en see i~ a aettin dar on de bench, en he soy, Uncle, yo is rail old, am t t ~n dan he ax ins my naine en whar I borned at en er heap er t1~a 11. iO()

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12. :101 dey buy me er c1gar~ Well, Boss Man, dats how cuta I aets on dat bench dar at de road crosain at Walnut Corner ebery Sunday, IflO8~ aU day, atter I 1t8 through er cleanin up de church, jes settint dar watchin dein care cum by er~ speetin one of dese days fer one of my young niarstera ter drive up en ter fine rae er settin dar waitin fer hirn, en when he cum, iffen he do, I know dat he sho gwine ter tek me back home wid him,

[Interview with Greene, Frank] 103 102

30811 102 Interviewer L~rs. Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Frank Greene - 2313 Saracen Stm~3t, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age78 Yes rn, I can remember the Civil War and the Yankees, too. I can real ly rerneinbe r the Yankee s and my old boss I can t remember everything but I can rexueniber certain things just as good. Dr. Ben Lawton was my old boss. That v~as in south CarolinaQ That was what they called Buford County at that time. Had a place they called the Honey Hill 1 ight. I used to go up there and Pick U~ balls. I can remember the Yankees had little old mules and blue caps and the folks was runnin from em. . I remember old boss run off and hid front em~first one place and then another. I remember the Yankees would grab up us little folks and put us on the mules-~.just for fun you know0 I can remember that ju8t as well as if twas ~resterday~~~seems like. They burned old boss s place down. He had five or six plantations and I know he corne back and rebuilt after peace declared, but he didn t live He wasn t a mean man. He was good to his folks. ~1e stayed there two years after surrender and when I carne to this country, I left some of my ~nc1es on that same place.

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I rememb r a white ~ent1ernen iii South Carolina would just jump his horse over the fence and run over the folks, white and black, cotton and all. He was a rich man and he d ju8t pay ein off and go on. He wouldn t put up the fence neither. 11e was a hunter--a sporting xn~n. Me? Yes rna axn, I used to vote--4he Republican ticket. We ain t nothin now, we can t vote. I never had any trouble bout votin here but in the old country we had sortie trouble. The Deniocrats tried to keep us from i Had to have the United States soldiers to open the way. That was when Hays and ~7hee 1er was ruiinin . ~ Here in the South the colored folks is free and they re not free. The white folks gets it all anyway Win some places. But they ain t nobody bothered r~e in all ray life ~here or there. ni went to school some after the war dn t have very rauch but I learned to read and write and tend to my own affairs. I have done farm work all my lire and some public work. I got the aarne ambition to work as I used to have but I can t hold Pit. I start out but I just can t hold it. Just to paas ray opinion. of the youiiger generation, some of era level..~ headed, but seems to me like they is a little rougher than they was in my day~ I think every one should live as an example for those coming behind. 2. :103

[Interview with Greene, George] 105 104

30714 104 .%~ ~ Interviewer Saau.1S.TaIlor Person interviewed_ Georg~ Grsn . ~ui~ora.~ ?~ Pulaski St. little RCk~ rk~ Age~ ~ k~ ~-. Permanentii.~Wrightivi1 ., Ark. m ~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~ ~ BirthaiidA~ I don t know when I was born. I don t know exactly, but I was born In slavery time before the War began. I was big enough to wait on the table when they wa8 fighting. I remember when they was setting the ~egroes tree. I was born in Aberdeen, 1(issi asippi in Monroe County. Seven miles from the toizi of Aberdeen, out on the prairies, that is where I was born. ei figure out my age by the white woman that raised me. She sent me my age. When they was working the roads, my road boss, I told him I was tortytive years old and he didn t believe It. So I sent to the white woman that raised me from a month-old child.. When I left her I d done got grown. Her name was Narcisaus Stephenson; she had all our ages and she sent mine to ~. eShe may be dead. now. I could ve stayed right there it she isn t dead, because she never did want me to co~ away. Right out in Arkansae, I co~e,~ to my sorrow. Well, I done right wefl till I got crippled. Got hit by an automobile. That s what I m dota here now. Parents and Relatives My father s name was Nathan Greene. I reckon he went by that ne~, I can t swear to it. I wasn t with him when he died. I was up in Mise. Isaippi on the Missia ippi River and didn t get the news in time to gt there till after he was dead. He was an old soldier. When the Yankees got down in Mississippi, they grabbed up every nigger that was able to tight.

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If Pd get his furlough papers, I d a been drawin pension before I did. But his brother was with him when he died and he let the dismias papers get lost, and nobody got nothin . Don t draw nothin from it at all. Couldn t find the papers when I was down ther. *1 don t know whether my father used his master s nau~ or his father s nai~. Ria father s name was ~ erry Greene, and ha master s name was Henry Bibb. I don t know which name he went by, but I call myself Greene because his father s name was ~Terry Greene. No Bibb owned him at tiret. ~ erry Greene was born in North, Alabama in Morgan County. That s where he was born. Bibb bought him and brought him down to Mississippi whers I ~as born. Lord! Old Man Blbb owned a lot of em, too. My tather and grandfather were both colored but my grandfather was an old yellow man. You know, he had to take his color after his papa. I don t know my great grandfather s n~. They can t tell nothin bout that in them . His papa, my grandfather e papa, I can t tell for aire whether he was white or black. My mother s name was Ldeline Greene Grandpa e wife s name was Louisa. She was one ot these kinder mixed with Indian. She lived to see a many a year before she died. She lived to be a hundred and fifteen years of age betore she died. I knowed Grandma Louisa. Up until I was a man grown. She was about my color with long straight hair and black (hair). Old Lady Bibb was her mistress. She died way after freedom. *1 don t know mama s age. I was here in Arkansas when she died. Didn t know she was dead until a month after she was ~iried. She died In Mississippi. Grandma, mesa, and all of them died in Mississippi. My grandma on my mother s side was named--I can t remember her nase, bit I knowed her. I can t remember what the old man s name was neither. It s been so long it just went from my memory. They never told as much neither. 2. 105

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Folks didn t talk im~~h tO children in thoae deys. I wouldn t hardly have thought of it now anyway. aouse and Purniturs ~ RA old log house was ~at I was bo~ in,~ when I come out trou Mia~ Isaippi that old house was still standing. Lw, they put up housea them daye. It had one room. Didn t have but one rocm, ..one window, one door, didn t have but one door to ~ go in and out I renumber that ~.ll. Didn t have no whole parcel of doors to go in and out. Plank floors. I wasn t born on the dirt! I was born on planke. Our house was up off the ground. we had a board root. We used tour foot boards. Timber was plentiful then where they could make boards easy. Boards was oheap There wasn t no such things as shingles. Didn t have no shingle factories. ~We didn t hais nothing but an old wooden bed. It waan t bought. It was made Made it at home Carpenter made it Making wooden beds was perfect then They d break down every two or three years. They lasted. There was boards holding then Wasn t no slats nor nothing, Nail them boards to the post and to the sides of the house, and that was the end of it with some people. We had a corded bed. Thi~ them ropes through the sides and corded them up there as t ight as Dick s hatband -and they stayed. They made their own boards, and made their own ropes, and corded them together, and they stayed. Chairs! Shucks~ They just took boxes. They made chairs too took shucks and put bottoms in them. Them chairs last d Them shucks go way, they d put more there. Wish I had one of them chairs now. We made a box and put our rations in it. Them days they made what they called cupboards. They made anything they wanted to. When they got free, they d buy dishes. When they got free, boxas and cupboards went out of style. 3. 106

108 107

4. 107 They bought safes. Thor. waan t no other t~irniture We used tin pans for dishes In alavery time. When we ~ot free, we bought plate.. ~Ihen them pan. fell they dldn t break. They even as mach as made their own trays to make bread In. They would take a cypress tree and dig it out and them scoundrels lasted too. Don t see nothin like that now. Tin pan is big enough to make up bread In now. In them days they made anything. Water buckete,..they did buy them. Old master would give em a pass to go get em, Anything they wanted, he would give em if he thought it necessary. Old master would get em all the buckets. 11e was good and he would buy what you would ask him for. They made milk buckets. They made em just like they make em now. . Work ot Family in Slave Tine My people were all field hands. My master had a great big farm.. thre or four hundred acres. I waited table when I was a little chap and I learned to plow before the War was over. Good Master Old. M n Bibb was as good and clever a man as ever you knowed. That overseer down there., if he whipped a man Old Man Bibba would say, Here s your money. Don t want you beating up my niggers so they can t work. I don t need you. He d tell im quick he don t need him and he can git. That a the kind of man he was. dn t let you be mobbed up. He was a good. christian man. I ll give that to him. In the time of the War ihen they was freeing slaves and I was a little old eight year-old kid, there was a little old X~tcbman, a Tennessee man, he ca~ out in the country to get feed. Out there in Alabama.

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s. :108 L I was in Alabama then. The white woman that raised me had taken ~ there. She had done married again and left me with mama awhil . While I waa little, that was. When I was about aeven, she caine end got me again and carried me down In Alabama and ralaed me with her children. That white woman never called me nothin but baby aa long as she lived, You know she cared for n~ just like I was one of her s. When a per~n raise a child trou a month old she can t help frcm loving it. This t~itchrnan came and asked me where my parents was and I told him they was in Mississippi. He slipped. n~ away from my folks and carried me to Decatur and they got cut off there. He was a Yankee soldier, and old Forrest a army caught em and captured n~ and then carried nie first nearly to Nashville. They got in three miles of the town and couldn t get no closer. They ran us so we never got no res till we got to Booneville, Mississippi. Then I sent word to Bibb and my uncle camp up and got me. Hirn and Billie Bibb, my young master. Billie Bibb was a soldier too. He was home on a furlough. I was glad to see him because I tell ~you in the ai~ny there was suffering. &it I ll tell you I ll give them credit, those Ten- nessee men took care of me just as though I was their own. I was in a two mule wagon. I drove it I was big enough to drive The ambulance m stopped in Nashville to see his folks and ~t a furlough and went on ho~. Work NI learned how to work--work in the field. Wasn t nothing but field work. I learned how to hoe tiret. ~it in Alabama I learned how to plow. I didn t want to be no hoe x~n; I wanted to plow. When I went back to Miss issippi, they put me on the plow. I was just eight years old when I learned to plow.

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6. 109 8hare cropping . Bi&it after freedcm, I juat kept on plowing. We share cropped. My mama and I woui..d take a crop. She d work. d all work like the devil until I got a job and went to tom. She was willing to let me go. That was when I married too. How Preedom Came All I know about freedom was Old Man Henry Bibb come out and told us we was free. That is how I cane to know it. He came out there on the farm arid said, Well you all free as I am. You can stay here 1f you want to or you can ~o samewhere else We stayed. M~ia stayed there on the farm plumb till she co~ to town. I don t know how many years. I was there in town and so she came onto town later. Moved in with the people she was with. They gave up their place. I was nineteen years old when I lett the country. My mother gave me her consent,.-~to marry then, too. She came to town a few years later. The slave8 weren t given nothin after they was freed. Nothing but what they worked for. They got to be share croppers. Ku Klux Klan The Ku Klux never bothered me but they sure bothered others. lay yonder in Mississippi directly after the surrender, they d hated it so bad they killed up many of them. They caught white men there and whipped them and killed them. They killed many a nigger. They caught a white aan there and whipped him and he went on up to Washington, D. C. and cerne back with a train load of soldiers. They cerne right down there in the south end of our town and they carried them Ku Kluxers away by train loads full. They cleaned out the ea8t side of the river. The Ku klux had been stringing up nigger.

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every which way. Pwasn t nothin to find a nigger sw1n~ing up In the woode. :att those soldiers come from Washington City. If they didn t clean em up, I ll hush. RI t t know what become o~ em. They never did come back to Aberdeen. Occupations Followed and Life Since Freedom I ain t worked a lick in four or five years. If I lived to see Au~ist tenth, I will be eighty six years old, I used to follow railroading or saw milling or farming, That is what I followed when I was able to work, The last work I did was farming, working by the day-..a dollar and a half a day. And they cut it dom and cut me down. Now they ain t giving nothing. If a man gets six bita a day he doing good. Harder times in Arkansas now than I have ever seen before. If a man is able to take care of his family now, he is doing . They don t give niggers noth ing now. The only way I live is I get a little pension. They give me eight doUars a month and comnodities. That i8 all I live on now. That keeps n~ up, thank God. I have been getting the pension about ever since they started. I reckon it is about two years. I have been receiving it every month. It ain t failed yet. They been taking care of me pretty well ever since they started. First start it wasn t nothin but rations. They give me groceries enough to las me every month. I had a wife then, ~1 have been a widow now tour years. Four years I ye been a widow, ;att there ain t nothin like a i~u staying in his own house. I have nude out now for four ysare. Right there cooking and washing for George! I didn t have nothing else to do. Fellow can t tell what day the I~rd will say, Stop , but as long as I am this way, I ll keep at it. 7. 110

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RThis soreness in my leg keeps ne in bad shape. I came here to get my leg tixed. It gets so I can t walk without a stick. .1 don t like to stay with other fbolks. They re sinners and they use me aorta aintul--spsak any sort or language ~it they sure nough treats nie nice. ~I got my leg hurt last ~ceaber. Car ran into me at Wrighteville, end knocked me down and threw me far as from here to that thing (about fifteen feet). After they flung me down, I was flat on my back a long ihile, I couldn t move. When a fellow gets old and then gets crippled up, it s hard. ~t I m gettin long pretty well now, cept that this leg ain t strong.~ J 8. 11:1

[Interview with Gregory, Andrew] 113 112

1 &1i~ ~ti -i~~k) . 11.2 ~ . ~ ~ Interviewai Misa Irene Robertson : ~ ~ Person interviewed Andrew Gre~ory. Rrlnklej.4rkanaaa _ :~ Age 14 ~ ----~-~-~-~- I was born in Carroll County, Tenneaaee My mother was owned by Houston. She said when war was declared he was at a neighbor s house. IJ~ jumped up and said, I gonner be the first to kill a Yankee. They said in a few minutes he ~el1 back on the bed dead. My father owner was Tiliman Gregory. After freedcin he stayed on ~harecroppin Frcm what he said that wa8n t rauch better than bein owned. They had to work or starve He said they di dn t make nobody work but they du t keep nobody from starvin if they didn t go at it. They was prou,d to be free ~it that didn t ease up the working, My people stayed on in Tennessee a long tim. When I was nineteen years old they was making up a crowd to coi~ here to work, Said the land was new. I come wid. them. It was a big time. We come on the Harde cash C steamboat ) I tamiied and cleared land all my lite, I sold wood, hauled wood. I ve done all kinds of farm work. I get ~12 from the Wel fare Association. The young generation is a puzzle to ~. That why I stand and watch what they do. The folks make the tilIle8. It s a puzzle to nie too,

[Interview with Griegg, Annie] 114 113

: :30903 . 113 Interviewer - ~1~BS Irene Robert~~ Person Interviewed Annie c~ 1~gg. ~dison~3x kansaa ~ ~ I was born a slave, born In Nashville, Tennessee. I was sold twice. I doii t recollect my mother; I was so ~na11 when I wa~ parted from her. I had two sisters and I recollect them. One of my sisters was sold. the same day I was sold and I recollect my other sister was named Rebecca. I never seen her no more after I was sold. I was the youngest. Mcther belong to Captain Walker. That was before the Civil War so I know he wasntt an officer in it. His daughter married a man named Mr. Foster. Captain Walker had give me to his daughter when she married, They lived in Nashville, Tennessee too. Mr. 7oater sold me and Captain Walker sold my sister Ann and Mr. Bill Steel ~Ienderson at ~olwnbia, Tennessee bought u.s both and give my sister to his widowed sister f or a house g14 and nurse and he kept me. They lived close to us and my sister stayed at our house nearly all the t ime My si ster and me was sold for the same price $100 a piece. ~e could count and knew a dollar. She had some learning then. I never went to school a day in my life. The first block was a big tree and stumps sawed off for steps by the side of it. The big tree had been sawed off up high. The man cried me off standing on the next stump step. My sister told me our mother was a cook at Captain Walker s. She told rue my father was a Foster. It was my under~ standing that he was a white nan. My sister was darker than I wa.,

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Mr. Poster sold me for a nurae~ Mr. Henderson s steter was ne~ Mra~ MoGaha (?) My alater nursed arid cooked. I nursed three chuldrn at Mr. Henderson s. He was good to me. I loved the children and they was crazy about me. He 8old me to Mr. Field Mathi8. I nursed Thur children for them. I never did know why I was sold. Mr. Henderson was heap the beat. Mr. Henderson never hit me a lick in his lit., ~Mathia was cruel. He drui~k all the time. Be got mad and stamped my hand. I nearly lost the use of my hand. It was swollen way up ax~d hurt and stayed riz up till his cousin noticed it. He was a doctor. He lived in the other end of the house~the saxe house. He found ac~ bones was broke loose in my haM C right hand) Dr. Mathis (Dr. Mathis or Dr. Mathews who died at Forrest City, Arkansas) set his brother cut about treating little nurse thater way. Told him he oughter be aahamed of his... self. Dr. M.athis splintered my hand and doctored it till it got weLl. Mr. Pield Mathis was a merchant They moved to Colt Arkansas at the beginxiin~ of the War, 1k. and Mr. Field Mathis both. We come on ths train and steamboats. It was so new to me I had a fine time but that is a~U I can tell about it. Mr. held was cross with his wife. She was fairly good ~ to urn I had all the cooking, washing and Ironing to do before I left there. .~.fter we come to Arkansas I never got to see my sister. My husband was a good scholar. He could write. lie wrote and wrote back to find my siBter and mother but they never answered my letters. I asked everybody that come from there about my sisters and mother but never have heard a word. I slept on a pallet on the floor nearly all my life, t had. a little bed at Mr. Henderson s. 2. 1:14

116 115

I didn t know it was freedom till ox~e day when I was about t~xrteen or fifteen years old -judging from my size and what I done. I wont off to a spring to wash. I had one pot ot clothes to boil and another just out of the pot to rub and rinse. A girl come to tel . me Mrs. Field had company and wanted me to come cook dinner. I didn t go but I told her I would be on and cook dinner soon as I could turn loose the washing. There was two colored girls and a white girl could done the cooking but I was a good cook. The girl put on the water ror me to scald the chickens soon as she went to the house. When I got there lira. Field Mathis had a handful of switcbe~ corded together to beat me. I picked up the pan of boiling water to scald the chickens in. She got scared of me, told. me to put the pan down. I didn t do it. I didn t aim to hurt her. I wouldn t throwed that boiling water on nothing. She sent to the store for her husband. He come and I told him how it was about the clothes and three girls ~there could cook withou~t me. He got mad at her and said: Mary Agnes, she is as free a~ you are or I am. i rzi not going to ever hurt her again and you. better not. That is the first I ever heard about fteed~. It had been freedom a long time. I don t know how long then. nI stayed on, washed out the clothes and strung thera up that evening. I Ironed all the clothes and cooked the rez~t of the week. Mr. Field got me a good horns with some colored folks. He told me if I would go there he never would let nobody bother rue and he never would mistreat me no more. I worked sc~ue for them t&it they paid me. She ought to thought a heap of ~ the way I cooked and. worked for her. That was my freedom. I was sold on a platfonn to Mr. Mathie. 5. 115

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After treelcm I done field work. I never seen a Ku Klux in my lites I cooked out acme and I married. I still cooked out, I was married once and married in a church. I have seven children 11v1n~ and seven dead. ni live with my daughter and her family and I ~et 6 and commodltiee. l in mighty thankful for that. It helpa xi~ a whole Iota. I recken young folks do the best they know to do. Seems like folka are kinder hearted than they used to be. Timea haire changsd a heap every way. Times la harder for poor folks than the othera. It i~8 a true saying that poor folks have hard ways and rich folks have mean waya. They are more selfish. I always had to work hard. Both times I was sold for ~lOO. 4. 116

[Interview with Guess, William and Charlotte] 118 117

30430 11? Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Per8ona Interviewed William and Charlotte ~eae West Memphis Arkansas ~ ~ 66 ~1i11iam G~esa I was born In Monroe County, Arkansas. Father come frein I~t11as, Texas when a young man before he married. Him and two other men was shipped In a box to Indian Bay. I ve heard him and Ike ~T1nr~ierson 1au~gh how they got bumped and bruised, hungry and thirsty in the box. I forgot the name of the other man in the box. They was sent on a boat and changed boats where they got tumbled up 80 bad. It was in slavery or war times one. White fOlks nailed them up and opened them up too I think. Father was born in ~.llaa, Texas Mother was a small woman and come frcm Tenne se. Billy Boyce in Monroe County owned her. That is the most I ever heard my folks tell about the Civil War.w charlotte ~k~esa Mother was born in ~llaa, Texas. She was born into slavery. ~ie was a field woman. She was sold there and brought to Mississippi at about the close of the Civil War. She was sold froet her husband and two children~ She never seen them. She farmed cotton and corn in Texas. Her husband whooped her, so she was glad to be sold, She married after the surrender to another man in Mississippi. No, he didn t beat her. They had disputes. ~he was the mother of ten children. She lived to be 82 years old. She ~nt from Arkansas back to Mississippi to die.R

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2. 118 TERVI~JE S NOTE It would be interesting if I co~i1d find out niore about why the Negroes were sent in the box. He seemed not to know all about it. This Negro man when young W~8 a light mulatto. He I s I ight for hi 8 age lie looks and acta white. Has a spot on one eye,

[Interview with Guidon, Lee] 120 119

1;+o ~ Misa Irsns Robertson Lee ~dOn. Giareii&on. Arkaneas Intervieier_______ :I~raon interviewe~ A~~~8g1~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Yea meaza I aho was in the Cibil War.4-1Pi,L.~L... I plowed aU. day end me aiid my alster helped take care of the baby at night. It would cry and me lmmpin it. ~n a straight chair~ rcckin~7 rim. I git lt to the bed where Its men a was it wake up and start oryin all over a~in. I be 80 aleepy. It Wft8 ft pUfl)~ 5O1 t O baby. Its papa was off at war. Hie name was urn Cowan an hie wife Misa ~ Margaret &own tore aba married him. Misa ~iir) Licy ~nith give n~ and my sister to them. Then ehe n~rried Mr. Lb. Moore J im &nith waa )&iaa 4L~~ 1aicy a boy. He lay outen ~ the woods all tine. lie aay no needen ~asiLat) him gittin shot up and killed. He say let the alavea be fr. We liv.d, eee~d lack ..~::tut, on bout the line of York an Union Countiee. He lay out in the wooda over in York County. Mr. J~im say all they fightin bout wae jealousy. They caught him several times but ebry time he got away frum t em. After they co~ home Mr. J im say they never win no var. They stole and starved out the South. ~They didn t want the slaves talkin bout things. On.s tim I got niffed up and I say I was goin to freedc~i ~ the wood ihar Mr. ~Tim be -~ and I recollect we was croasin over a railin fence. My ma put her hand over my month like di.,j~s .I.1 IT~ and say you~ don t know anything t bout what you sain boy. 1:19

121 120

2. 1 ) ~1 nebel will torgit Mr. Noel. He was ai . our overseer. 11e 887 lee Good Boy plowa ao good. Re never apoke en unklth word in his life to ~. When I hat to go to hia ho~ise he call me In en give me hot biscuita or maybe a potato. I aure love potato ~weet potatoe~. He was a good old ~hrietian man. The church we all went to was made outer hand hewd loge -~ great big things. My pa lived in Union County on the other a ide ~ the church. ~He lived to be 103 years old. Ma lost her mind. The~both died right here with n~ ~ a piece outer tom (~are~4e-ian~eu) . He was named Pompey and ma Fannie Her name toe treed~a was Fannie &nith then she took the name ~iidon. ~A.fter treedcii~ a heap of people say they was going to na~ their selves over, They nw~ed their selves big nau~e then went roaming round lack wild, huntin cities. They changed up so it was hard to tell who or whar anybody wee. Heap or em ~ died an you didn t know when you hear t bout it it he was your folks hardly. Some of the names was Abraham an some called their selves Lincuin. Any big na~ ceptin their Eia8ter S nana. It was the fashion. I herd em talking bout it one ebenin an my pa sa) fine folks rai se us an we goiner hold to our own na~s. That settled it wid all of us. Ma was a si ckly wcinan ai . her life They kept her round the house to help cook and sweep the yards. Not a speck of grass, not a weed growd on her yard. ~he swap it bout two times a wek. It was prutty and whit.. The sand jea shined in the ein. Had tall trees in the yard. WI can t recollect bout my papa s master cause I was raised at my TI~a!na e master 8 place He said many and many a t line 3oe Gildon never had

122 121

5. :121 to whoop him. After he growd ~ip he never got no whoopine a tall. J oe Guidon learned him to plow an he was boss ot the plow hande. His wife was named Mariah Guidon. He say she was a mighty good easy w~n too. Saturday W~8 ration day and Sunday visitin day. ~it you nnist have your pass if you leave the farm an go over to somebody elsee farm. When I was a boy one thing I love to do was go to stingy Tom a still house. His name was Torn Whiteside. He eire was stingy and the meanest white ~n I ever seed. I went to the still house to beat peaches to make brandy. It was four miles over there and I rode. le always made least one barrel of peach brandy and one of cider. That would be vinegar nough by spring. Si~n beer was good in the cole freezin wether too. We nieke much as we have barrels if we could get the persinnons. He had a son naxae Bill Whitesidea. Once an old ~la ~ warnen lost her mind. Stin~j Tom sent her to get /m ~ a ~U.l tongue ~ and she chased after ox~ of the bulls down at th lot tryin to catch it. She set his barn fire and burned thirteen head of horses and zmiles together. Stingy Tom had the sheriff try to get her tell what white folks put her up to do it. He knowed they all hated him cause he jas so ~an. The old wcman aver did tell but they hung her anyhow. There was a big crowd to see it. Misa Lucy jes cried and cried. She say Satan got no use for St ingy Tom he so ~an. That the first psraon I ever seed hung. They used to hang folks a heap. The biggest crowds turned out to see it. The old woman a son. he went to the woods I~e so hurt cause they going to hang his ma.

123 122

4. The Missouri soldiers were worse than the Yankees. They waste an steal your corn and take your horses. They brought a little girl they stole and let Stingy Torn have her. He kept her and treated her so mean. They thrash out wheat and ~i~t it on big heavy sheets to dry~ The little girl had to sit outen the sun an keep the chickens offen it. I seed him find her sleep and hit hard as he could in the face wid big old br~ish. It was old dogwood brush wid no leaves on it. He wouldn t let that little girl have no biskit 4b ~e~4~ on ~inday mornin . Everybody had all the hot biskit they could eat on Sunday niornin . Well after freedom, long time her aunt heard she was down there and come an ~ got her. She grow up to be a nice woman. Them same Missouri soldiers took Henry Guidon (younger brother of Lee Guidon) ott. Stole him from the master ~ stole his mule. They was so mean. They found out when they shoot, the mule so scared it would throw Henry. They kept it ~ and laughed. Course it hurt Henry. Liable to kill him. They say they making a Yankee soldier outen him that way. One ni ght befo re they got too fur gone he rode ott hone. They burn whole cribs corn. Could smell it a long ways off. They was mean to eberybody. I recken I do know bout the Ku Kiuck. I knowed a man named Alfred Owens. He 8eemed all right tut he was a Republican. He said he was not afraid. He run a tan yard and kept a heap of ~ns in a big ro n. They all loaded. He married a southern women. Her husband either died or was killed. She had a son living wid them. The Ku Kiuck was called Upper League. They get this boy to unload all the sins (16 shootera). Then the white men went there. The white man give up and said, I ain t got no gun to defend myself wid. The ~tne all unloaded an I ain t got no powder

124 123

R p. and shot . ~it the Ku Kiuck shot In the houses and ahot him up like lace work. He eold tine harness, addlee, bridles -~ all aOrta of leather things. The Ku Kluck sliure run them outen their country. They say they not going to have them round and they shure run them t, back where they calM from. Qiarlee Good had a blackemith. They ~ie Missouri soldierj opened a fence gap when they caine through. They took him, tied him to a tree and shot him in the face with little shot. He suffered there till Wednes day ~ ay!~when he was still living. They tied him to the tree wid his own gallowses i~r!p~4..1 They was doubled and strong. Then some of them went down there and finished up the job beating him over the head with the gu.ns till he was dead. The Ku KIuck broke up every g~in they could fix~. They sure better not ketch a gun at the quarters of colored folks. They whoop him and break up the gun. Ask him where he got that g%Aii and start more bad trouble. They packed a two story jail so full of men they had orders to turn em out. Then they built a high fence bout eight foot tall and pit em in it. They had lights and g.tards all round it. They kept em right out in the hot sun in that pen. That s where the Yankees put the Li Kiucke. Then they had trials and some was sent to Albany for three years and eight years and the like. They made glass at Albany. Them Yankees wouldn t let em have no bonde. Then the ~iite folks told them they needn t settle among them. They owned all the land and wouldn t sell them a foot for nuthing. A heap of lawyers and doctors got in it. That fence was iron and bob wire +bU~W~ irtre-). The Ku Kiuck killed good men, but Repub licane.

125 124

6. :124 ~We stayed on like we were cause we done put in the crop and the Ku Kiuck never did bother us. We made a priitty good crop. Then we took our freedom. Started workin fer money and part of the crop. UI married in 1871. Me and Et~rnia went to bed. Somebody lam on the door. &ina say You mn they t hurt me I say They kill me sure We stayed and opened the door. They pull the cover offen her looking. They lifted up a cloth frcm over a barrel behind the bed in the corner. I say that are a hog. He ~ay we right from hell we ain t seen no meat. Then they soon gone. The moon shining 80 bright that night. They were lookin for my wife s brother I heard em say. They say he done something or another. Qiarleaton was the nearest a ai~ny ever come to me but I seed a heap of soldiers on the roads. One road was the Rock Hill road. One man I heard em talk oheap about had the g~xns and powder. They shot holes in the waLls. He climbed up in the fireplace chimney and stood up there close to. the brick. It was dark and they couldn t see him. They ~looked up the chimney but didn t see him. It was a two story chimney. Lady if you ain t never seen one I can t tell you just how it was. ~it they shot the house full ot holes and never harmed him. For them what stayed on like they were Beoonatruotion times bout like times before dat ceptin the Yankees stole out an tore up a scanlus heap. They tell the black folks to do something and then come white folks you live wid and say Ku Kiuck whoop you. They say leave and white folks say better not listen to them old Yankees. They ll git you too fur off to come back and you freeze They done give you all the use they got fer you.

126 125

7. 125 How they do? Ail sorts of waye. Some atayed at their cabine glad to have one to live in an farmed on. Some mnnin round beg~in 8CIID hunting work for money en nobody had no money ceptin th Yankeea and they had no homes or land and mighty little work fer you, to do. No work to live on. some goin every day to the e ity. That winter I heard bout them starving and freezing by the wagon loadg. UI never heard nuthing bout votin till treedom. I don t think I ever voted till I come to Mississippi. I votea RepuUican. That s the party of niy color and I stick to them long as they do right. I don t dabble in white folk a buzneas an that white folks votin is their buz nees. If I vote I go do it and go on, hc~. I been plowin 4P1~~ZL~ all my lite and in the hot days I cute and saws wood. Then. when I gets outer cotton pickin I put each boy on a load of wood an we sell wood. Then we clear land till next epring. I don t find no time to be loafing. I never mis ed a year farming till I got the Brights diaease an it hurt me to do hard work. The last yeara we got $3 a cord.. Farmin I s the beat lire there 18 when you are able. I come to Holly Springe in 1850, stopped to viait. I had six children end $90 in money. We cox~ on the train. My parents done co~ on from South Carolina to Arkansas. Men say this ain t no richer land than you come from. I tried it seven years. I drove from there, ferried the rivers. It took a long tixi~. We made the best crop I ever seed in 1888. I had eight childre~i, my wife. I cut ~nd hauled wood all winter. I soon had three teams haulin wood to Clarendon. Some old ment ~hite me~ mean thinga2 Learned one of my boys to play craps. They done it to git his money.

127 126

8. 126 When I o~ed moat I had ix head males and. five head horeec. I rented 140 acrea of lend. I bought this house and ao~ other land about The anthrax killed nearly all my horses and imilea. I got on big fine mule yt. Its mate died. I lost my houe.. My eon give ~ one room and he paying the debt off now. It a hard for colored folka to keep anything. Somebody gets lt trum em if they don t mind. sme preaent tims is hard. Timber is scarce. Game la about ill gone. Price. higher. Old folks cann t ~rk. Timea is hard for younger tolke too. They ~ to town too imich and go to shows. They going to a tent ahow now. Circus coming they say. They spending too naich mony for foolishneas. It e a fast tim. Polka too reetlees. Sons of the colored folks *rk hard t~e folks ever did. Th.y ependa too ~ch. 8c~ folks is lazy. Alwaya been that way. ~1 ai~iied up to ths Governmlnt b~tt they ain t give me rnttbin ceptin pOwdered milk and rice what wasn t fit to eat. It cracked up and had black acmethin in it. A lady said ehe would give ~ Shilte that waa her huabends. I went to get them ~it ehe wasn t h~. These heavy ahirte give me heat. They won t give me the pen~ion an I don t know why. It *uld help me buy my eilte and pill. and the other medicines liks Swamp Boot. They won t give lt to ne.~

[Interview with Hadley, Linley] 128 127

30847 127 Intervieier Misslrn.Robertaon Person interviewed Lin1.jE~.~.Madieon~ 4*ansa~w ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ RI was born the very day the Civil 1er started,Lpril 12, 1861. I was born in Monroe County close to Aberdeen, Mississippi. My papa was named I~ve CoUine. He was born tar back as 1832. He was a carria~ driver. ~1aaa was born same year as papa. ~e was a field hand and a cook. ~1 could plough good as any man. She was a guinea w~sn. She weighed ninety-flY. pounds, ~s had fourteen ohildrsn. She did that. Had six or seven aftOr tresdc~. She had one slave husband. Her owners was old ~eter Wylie Collins and Mistrses Zens. le ccme way frci~ their place in 1866. I osa recoilsot old Meeter Colline Calling up all the niggeri to his house. He told them they was trse. Thers was a crowd of thm, all sizs.. w:iiy all this took place now I don t ~ow. Most of the niggers took what all they have on their hsads and walked off. He told mena to move up in the locm house, if ehe go off he would kill bar. Is aoved to the loom houes tin in 1866. ROue night some or the nigg.ra what had been CoUin8 slaves oc~ end atoleell mama s childrn, toted us off on their backs at night. Where we come to cross the river, Uncle George Tunnel was the terrymaz~. He had raised man~t at his cabin at slav.ry. He took us to his white fo1ks~ Is lived with them a year and tban ~ moved on Bill Cropton e place and we lived there rorty years. All the Croptons dead now.

129 128

2. 12~ We come to Arkansaa in 1891 close to Cotton Plant. 1898, I cane to Madison. Been here ever aince. Grandma belong to Master Boger8 where we knowed George Tunnel ~ Mama, named Harriett and Aunt MiLler was sold. A man in Texas bought Aunt Miller. We never could hear a word from her. After freedom we tried and tried Maater Colline waa mean. You couldn t lay your hand on mama a back without laying it on marks where she had teen beat. All hia nigge~ a wae glad to leave him. They stripped mama s clothes down to her waist and ihooped her, beat the blood out with cowhidea. Master Collins lowed hie niggers to steal, then his girls came take some of it to their house to eat. Master Collins didn t have no boys. Papa was a little chunky man. He d 8teal flour and hogs. He could tote a hog on his back. My papa went on off when freedom c~. They was so happy they had no sense. Mania never seen him no more. I didn t neither. Mama didu t care so imteh about hi~i. He was her mate give to ber. I dIdiI t worry bout him nor nobody then. Master Oollina did give us plenty to wear and eat too. When I left there we ail worked. Mama married ag in. We kept on farming. I farmed all my life. I got a boy what works. We own our house and all this place (one.. hall acre ) I don t get no help frcui nowhere Seem like them what works and tries ought to be the ones to get help and not them what don t never pay no taxes. Fast generation it is now, Rtt they don t bother ma. I got a good boy. Times is hard. Everything you have to buy is high.

[Interview with Hall, Anna] 130 129

~) r~1 IQ . t~)U :t :LO ~ .~ . IntsrTiev.r1 ~ ~ ~ M1B~ ~psi~ .3c~.r~ppi. ~ . ~ Person int.rview.d jxi~na Hall ~ ~ Ag. ~ ~.6e_ ~ *1 don t know mithin cept what I heard folks talk bout ihsn I was a child. I was born good ihil after that war. My folks lived in Scott County near Jackson, Mississippi when I was Llttl and in slavery time too. My mother a mistress was Misa Dofly Cruder. She was a widow and run her own farm. Z don t re~mbr her. ~e giv her own chiidran a cotton patch api.oe and give the wc~sn hands a patch about and thay hid to work lt at night. If the ~on didn t give light sc~body had to hOld a literd (lant.rn) not fur from em so th y could se. to hoe and work it out. I think ahi had aor land than hands. What they aads was to be about a bals around for extra money. It took all ths day ti~ working in th. big ti3ld tor lias Dolly. I heard s~ say how tired they would bs and then go work out their own pstohss tors thy go to bed. Z don t rsiimbsr how th.y said the whiti girls got their odtton patc~.a wor~sd. And that ii about all I rsaernbere good nough to till you. RTh.y didn t expect nothing but frsed~ out ths war. The first my mother heard ahi was working doing somthing and aombody say, What you working fur don t you ~ow you done free? That the first shs ~ow.d ahi was ti si. Thsy just passed ths word round; that s how th.y heard it and the soldiirs started cc~ing in to their families. 8c~ of them cc back by them.elvss and 5 li cc~ riding several ~ of them togsthsro

131 130

2. 130 *1 know they didn t give my mother nothing after the war. ~i. washd end ironed bout all her lite. *Th. young generation is doing better than we old folks is. If thsre il Sfl7 work to get they gets it in preference to us. Iducation is helping e~. of em here in Brinkley. o~ of the young ons ~ts good ~nsy. They teaches end cooks. ?iis is hard for sc~. *1 lie. wid my son. lia he own his hou... I gets $8 frca the rs~ lief. Ii has bout nough to live on and dat ii all.R

[Interview with Hamilton, Ellie] 132 131

30484 ~ 131 ~ . ~ .. ~ ~ber~apj~ ~ - Person interviewed ~lli.Namilto~jmale h Clarendp~ 4~kanaaa Age___ *1 was born aboutHolly Springs, Mississippi. My parents master~)~) nau~ William and Mary Ellen J efferiea. I don t know rzmch bout them. My are nanie Neely and Amos Hamilton. I judge that was pa s master ~ nana. They had eight children. Three o~ us living yet. I been farmin and workin round Clarendon evsr since I was a chap. I work round hotels and stores and tarin too. RI votes when we have a leader for our party. It don t do no good. I never seed no good come outen the colored race votin yet. Some ways times ja im~ch better, much betterZ Some ways they is worser. The people is educated better n I had a chance at. Work wages la a heap better. I has worked for $7 a aonth. Now 8~ can get $1.8 to $20 a week. ~tt the young generation throwin lt away. They ain t going to save a bit of it. The present condition la worse morally. They used to could depend on a man. You can t hardly depend on the younger generation. They la so tricky. Polka going too naich. I recollect when I was a child I went to town one or two tli~a a year. I didn t want all I seen there then neither. Sesma lack folks spends so much money foolishly. ni own a home, no cow, no hog, no land. Get .O a month fr~ the PWA. ~

133 132

2. 132 I cc~ to Arkansas to farm. It is a fine fbarmin~ country, Misa. My father died and left my mother wid seven children to raise. She come on out here to make a livin . I remeniber when Tilden and Hendrick lost and Hays and Wheeler wae . . 1 elected. They sung aonga bout em and said Carve that posaum nigger to the heart . It done been so long eine. we sung them rally songs I forgot every line of all of them. People used to eilig more religious songe aeem~ like than they ito now. They done gone wild over dancin stead of singin . RI farmed tor J. P. Cherry at Holly Springs tr~ ti~ I was eight year old till I waa twenty-one year old. That s a long time to stay by one IM~U ain~t it?

[Interview with Hamilton, Josephine] 134 133

.~ f~) 133 ~ ) Interviewer Miss Irex~e Robertson Person Interviewed Yoae~phine Haxallton1 Hazen~ Arkansas Age ?7~ I was born near Houston Mississi~ppi In 1860. We lived about three miles north when I can first recollect. My mistress was named Frankie Hill and my master was Littleton Hill. I had some sisters and brothers dead but I had four brothers and one sister that ~ot up grown. The first house I remembers living in was a plank house. Then we lived in a log house wid a stick- and-dirt chimney. I was wid my old master when he died of heart trouble. She lack to died too. We setting by de fire one night and he held ~he lamp on one knee and reading out loud. It was a little brass lamp with a handle to hook your finger in. He was a Baptist. He had two fine horses, a big gray one and a bay horse. .Toe drove him to preaching. Miss Prankie didn t go. He said his haid hurt when dey went to eat dinner and he slept all the evening. He et supper and was reading. I was looking at him. He laid his haid back and started snoring. He had long white hair. I say Miss Frankie, he is dieing. Cause he turned so pale. He was setting in a high back straight chair. ~Ie got him on the bed. He could walk when we held hirn up. His brother was a curious old man. He et morphine a whole heap. He lived by himself. I run fast as my legs would take me. Soon as I told hirn he blowed a long horn. They said it was a trumpet.

135 134

2. :134 You never seen ~ucb a crowd as come t~eck1y. The hands come and the neighbors too. It being dot time er night they knowed some~ thing was wrong. He slept awhile but he died that night. I stayed up there wid Miss Frankie nearly all de time. It was a mile from our cabin across the field. Toe stayed there some. He fed and curried the horses. N&n I don t remember no slave uprisings. They had overseers on every farm and a~~yro11. I learned to sew look.ing at the white folks and my ma showed me about cutting. There wasn t much fit about them. They were all to1~erab1y loose. We played hiding behind the trees a heap and played in the moonlight. We played tag. We picked up scaley barks, chestnuts,and walnuts. Miss Frankie parched big pans of goobers when it was cold or raining. Some of the white folks was mean. Once young mistress was sick. She had malaria fever. I was sitting down in the other room. Young master was lying on de bed In the same room. A woman what was waiting on her broug~it the baby in to put a cloth on him. He was bout two months old, little red-.headed baby. He was kicking and I got tickled at hirn. Young master slapped me. The blood from my nose spouted out and I was jess def for a lone time. He beat me around till Miss Polly corne in there and said You quit beating that little colored girl. You oughter be ashamed. Your wife in there nearly dead. Yes maam, she did die. I never will forgit Miss Polly. I saved one of the young mistress little girl bout seven or eight years old. Miss Frankie raised a little deer up grown. It would run at anybody. Didn t belong at the house. It got so it would run me.

136 135

3. :135 It started at the little girl and I pulled her in on. the porch back wards and in a long hail. Her marna show was proud. Said the deer would paw her to death, I remembers everybody shouting and so glad they was free. It was a joyful time. If they paid my folks for work I didn t know it. We stayed on with Miss Frankie till I was grown and her son Billy Hill took her to Houston, Texas to live. Miss Saille and Miss Fannie had been married a long time. We always had a house to live in and something to eat. I show never did vote. I would not know nothing about it. I think the folks is getting wiser and weaker. Some of us don t have nnich as we need and them that do have wastes it. I always lived on the farn till eight years ago when my husband died. I wasn t able to farm by myself. I didn t have no children. icone to Hazen to live wid dese here girls I raised. (Two girls.) They show is good to me. No maaxn I ain t never got no old age pension. They won t give it to IT1S. Vie come to Arkansas in 1918. ~ e lived down around Holly Grove. We had kin folks wrote abou.t out here and we wanted to change. Long as I was able I had a good living but since I been so feeble I have to make out wid what the children bring me. I don t know if de times is getting any better, don t seem lack the people training their children a tell. They say they kamt do nothing wid ein. I allus could do something wid dein I raised. I used to look at them and they minded me. The trouble is they ain t learning to work and won t do nothing less they going to get big pay. Then they run spend it fast as they can go for fool-.bait.

Herbs - cures & remedies, etc. 137 136

~ ~3T ~ ~ I /7 ~}&~ ~ ~ ~ w 63 Little Rock District 136 FOLKLORE SUBJECTS ~ Name of Interviewer Irene Robertson ____________ Subject ~ ~!~~RBs~- CURES&RE1~EDIES, ETC. ~ Story .. Inforn~tion (If not enough spaoe on this page add page) If you borrow salt it is bad luck to pay it back. Parch okra se ed gr md up o r b eat it up and make coffee . Parch meal or corn and make coffee. In slavery times they took red corn cobs burned them and made ~white ashes, sifted it and used it instead of soda. Beat up charcoal and take for gas on the stomach. Sift neal add salt and make up with w~ter,put on collard leaf, cover with another collard leaf put on hot ashe~ . Cover wi th hot a shea. The bread will be brawn, the collard leaves parched up, It is really good Roast potatoes and eggs in the ashes. In slavery ti~nes they made persimmon betr. Uad regular beer barrels ruade a faucet. Put old field hay in the bottom, persimmons, baked corn bread and water. Let stand about a week, a fine drink with tea cakes. It won t make you drunk. Comb hair after dark makes you forgetful. Asafoetida and garlic on the bait makes the fish bite well. Rub fishing worms on the ground makes them toug her so you can put them on the hook. This informat ion given by Josephine Hamilton Place of Residence -~-~----- ~ ~ft~L ~ ~ * Occupation -~ ~-.--.-- -- F eldwordandwaslmoman. AGE

Negro customs. 138 137

pine Bluff Diitriet ~?# c~ ~ ~ ~- . ~ ~ S FOLKLORZ SUB3~OI~S ~ \ ~ Name of Interviewer Martin Pettigrew Sub~eet .--- - ~~_gr~ ~ ~ ~ ~ -- .- Story Intormation (Ir not enough space on this page add page) My mother made three crops after ehe iuz freed, end I wuz born when ehe made her third crop, so I thinke I vuz born round 1868. 1 wuz born In Bolivar County, Mi8eiseippi. My niother and father were elaves and belonged to the Harris family. Only one I members le my sister, alie died. My brothers went oft end worked on ships, and I never saw thee no mo . fter freedom, my mother kept working for her marster end misetis, and they paid them for their work. They steyed on the s~e plantation until I wuz almost grown. At Christmas time, we had heaps to eat, cakes, homemade molasses candy that you pulled, popcorn, horse apples whioh wuz good, ma bettex~ n any apples we get these days. The white tolke give gifts in the big houee and meimny went to the house and the ~hite tolks give her the things to put in ~ nigger chulluns stockings. This information given ~ Pie ce o~ Besidenee w --~ ~~airpc~rt ~PineB1u~Ar~ Ocoupat ion ~ ~ _~ - ~- -.-----S-S---.- ~ ~ - . ~ ----- -. Age ~6Q~

139 138

I~8 Je hung tip our etockings in our house end up at the whit. house too. Fore Chriatitas, the ~ite folke would t.11 115 1f we stole chickens, eggs, duoka and thinga, or go in the apple orchard and wuz bad Santa Claus would not come to U8. But it we ~re good, he would bring gift. to tie. Fore Chrietmas the uhite folks muId make a Santa Claus out of clothes a~ stuff It, put a psek on his back, and stand him up in the road. Colored ohillun feared to go near him. I have never been arrestsd ns vsr been in the jail houas ox esisboose. sent to school when I could. ?rsvelsd all over, worked on canal in South,Meries. Naivie of boat I wuz on was the * leash.ll, No. 4N~ with c~aptain Nelson, fu~i New York.

[Interview with Hampton, Lawrence] 140 139

3O8O(~ 139 Interviewer Misa Iren, Robertson Person interviewed Lawrence Eampton - - R.FD., Forrest CIty, Arkaneas Age 78 ~ ~ ~I was born in Orangeburg, South Carolina. My parent8 flamba was Drucilla a d Peter Hampton. ~he was the mother ot twelve children, They both long to ~ ohn D. Kidd and Texas Kidd. To my knowing they had no children, They was old to me being a child but I don t reckon they be old fOlks0 They had a plantation, soete hilly and sine bottom land, He had two or three hundred slaves. He was a good, good man. He was a good master, He had some white overseers and, . scne black overseers. Grandpa I~ter was one 0fb his overseers~ He was proud or his slaves. He was a proud mens We all had preaching clothes to wear. He had his slaves be somebody ~hen they got out of the field. They went in washing at the fish pond, duck pond too. It was clear and sandy bottcm. Iouldn t be muddy when a lot of them got through washing (bathing). They was black but they didn t stink sweaty. They wore starched clean Ironed clothes. They cooked wheat flour and made clothes. When the War come on their clothes was ironed and clean but the wheat was scarce and the clothes got flimsy. 3~ohn D. Kidd was loved by black and white. He was a good man. Grandpa George had a son sold over close to Memphis. They had twelve children last letter mama had from them. I ve never seen any one of them, Grandpa Peter was a overseer. After he was made overseer he was paid. That was a honor for being good all his life. When treedcm come on he had ten thousand doUars, He was pure Mricen, black as ace of spades.

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He give papa and the other fcitr boya tive hun&red dollara a piece to start them farms. Papa died. when he was sixty-five and grandma was about a hundred. Meine was seventy4lve when she died. Grandpa was eighty-five when he died. They didx~ t know exactly but that was about their . ages. It was a pretty big honor to be a carriage man. They had young men hoatler8 and blacksmiths. Preedom- The boys all stayed around and girls too. They bought places about, They never would charge John D. Kidd i or work. They let the girls cook, milk, and set the fowls, long as the old couple lived. They nevr took no pay. They go in gangs and chop out his crap and big picnic dinners all they ever took from him. We all loved that old man. . ~ They done some whooping on the place but it was a shame. They got over it and went on dressed up soon as the task was done. Never heard naich said about it. I never seen nobody whooped. ~ My own folka whooped me. We was free then. I heard how easy to fwi out in Arkansas. I come to Forrest City in 1884. I was bout twenty 4ive years old then. It was a imid hole is right. I farmed all my life. We made money. My color folks don t know how to take care of their money. They can make money but don t handle it long. I owns a home and twenty acres of land. I want to keep it. Me and my wife live out there~ I had ten children and four of them still living. They a.ll good children and I m proud to own they mine. J~ohn D. Kidd had a lot of his wife s brothers that c~ visiting. Pd tiM out they be up theree Here I d go. We d swim, fish, ride, and I, d love to be around them and hear them talk. That was the kind of good times we had when I was a boy. I missed all that when I come here. 2. 140

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3. :14:1 It was sich fine f~arming land. I couldn t go back to atay. I been back numbers of timea viaittng. I heard of the Ku KLux but I never aeen r~one of them. They was hot over there in South Carolina in some spots. ~I m able by the grace of God to make my own humble living. Sc~netii~ I may like a little help but I ain t asked toe none yet~ I heard this here about the Ku Klux in Forrest City. I heard different ones say. They was having a revival out here at Lane Chapel and the captain ot the Ku Klux cctne in and they followed in their white clothes and he give the colored minister a letter. He opened it and it had sc~ money for him. They went on off on their horses. I don t know when that was. I didn t see it, I heard about it.

[Interview with Hancock, Hannah] 143 142

;jt~J~ :;~ Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Hannahflaneoek,~3,~,~ 4~ ~ ~. .~ AgePast 80 I was born in Chesterfield County, South Carolina. My mother s name was Ohloa0 We lived on Hardy Sellers plantation, ~~ias the white folks cook. I et in the white folks kitchen sometthes and sometimes wid the other children at maw s house, Show my daddy was livin. But he lived on another man s farms. His master s name was Billy Hancock and his name was Dave. Der was a big family of us btit dey all dead. now but three of us. lie got two sisters and a brother still livin, I reckon. I ain t seed them in a lone time. Mrs. Sellers had several children but they were all married when T come along and she was a widow. 3~oe Pete was her son and he lived close, about a mile across the field, but it was farther around the road. Billy Hancock married Mrs. Sellers dau~1iter0 My mistress didn t do much. Miss Becky Hancock wove cloth for people. You could get the warp ready and then run in the woof. ~he made checked dresses and mingledy looking cloth. They colored the cloth brown and purple mostly. Mrs. Sellers ~et a bolt of cloth and have it all made up into dresses for the children. Sometimes all our f~ily would have a dress alike. Yesin, we did like dot. Granny rt~ade de dresses on her fingers. She was too old to go to de field an she tote water from the big spring and sometimes she water de hands vhen dey be hoeing.

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She would cut and. dry apples and peaches. Nobody knowed how to can. They dried de beef. It show was good. It was jess fine. No maam, Granny didn t have no patterns. She jess made our dresses lack come in her haid. We didn t get many dresses and we was proud or em and washed and ironed and took care of em. I recollects hearing de men ~alkin~ about coing off to war and em going. No jess de white men left from Mrs. Sellers place. De children didn t set arotind and hear all that was said. They sen~t us off to play in the play houses. We swept a clean place and marked it off and had ou.r dolls down there. We put in anything we could set, mostly broken dishes. Yes ma~m, I had ra~ dolls and several of~ them. No wars real close 1~t I could hear the ~un~ some~ t lines. Mrs. Sellers had two large carriage horses. The colored boys took them down in the bottoms and took off a lot of the meat and groceries and hid them f0 the Yankees come along. They didn t nebber fin them things. Mrs. Sellers was awftl good and t~ men jess looked after her and took care of her. Me or maw stayed at the house with her all the time, day and night. When anybody got sick she sent somebody to wait on them and went to see what they needed and sometime s she had em brought up t o the hou5e a.nd give em the medicine herself. She didn t have no roman. Uncle Sam and. uncle J~o1m was the oldest and uncle Henry. They was the men on the farm and they went right on with the work. Folks had bigger families than they do now, They show did work, but de field work don t last all de time. They cleared land and fixed up the rail fences in the winter, 143

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3. 144 A rail fence was on each aide of a long lane that led down to the pasture The creek r~m th~o~igh the pasture It was show a pretty grove. Had corn shuckines when lt was cold. We played base down there. Ne always had meat and plenty milk, couards and potatoes. Old missus would drip a barrel of ashes and make corn hoininy in the wash pot nearly every week and we made all the soap we ever did see. ri ~ banked the sweet potatoes they wouldn t rot and that s where the seed come from in the spring. In the garden there was an end left to go to seed. That is the way people had any seed. Piiiies show have changed. I can t tell what to think. They ain t no more like than lt they was another kind of folks. So much different. I jess look and live. I think they ought to listen to what you say. Say anything to them they say Kamt ru.n my busine8s. I don t know if they spected anything from freedom. Seemed like they thought they wouldn t have to work if dey was free and dey wouldn t have no boss. Lssus let a lot of her land grow up in pine trees. Said she had no money to pay people to work for her. Some of de families staid on. My maw and paw went on a tarin on share not far from Mrs. Sellers. when she was going to have company or she got sick she sent for my maw. My niaw washed and ironed for her till they moved plum off. They said somebody told them it was freedom. When dey picked up and moved off de rnissus show didn t give em nothing. They didn t vote. They didn t know how. I heard a lot about the Ku I ux l an but I wasn t scared. I never did see none, De younger generation jess lives today and don t know what he ll do tomorrow or where he ll be. I ain t never voted and I don t know lfrnyboysdoornot.

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I never heard or uprisings. De paddyroll was to see after dot and Mrs. Sellers didn t have none. Uncle Sain and uncle sohn made ein mind. Sing ~ I say dey did sing. Sine about the cooking and about the milking and sing in de field. I never did see nobody sold.. R~t I heard them talk about selling em. They took em off to sell em. That was the worst part about slavery. The families was broke up I never lived nowhere cept in South Carolina and Prairie County (Arkansas). My folks come here and they kept writ1n~ for me to come, and I come on the. train. Mrs. Sellers son, ~oe Sellers, killed himself, shot himself, one Sunday evening. Didn t know how coxi~ he done it. I was too little to know what they expected from the war. The colored folks didn t have noth.. Ing to do with it cept they expected to get fteed~. A heap or people went to the cities, some of them died. After freedom things got pretty scarce to eat and there was no money. I worked as a house girl, tended to the children, brushed the flies off the table and the baby when it slept and swept the house and. the yard too. After I come here (to Arkansas) I married and I worked on the farms, le share cropped. I rai sed my children had chi ekens geese a cow and hogs. Lien the cotton was sold we ~ot some of it. Yes rnaexn, I show had rether be out there if I could jess work. We lived on Mr. Dick Small s place till he sold out We come to town a year and went back and triade enough In one year to buy dis place, It cost 4~3OO. Yeas my two eons and n~ The others were married. My husband died on the farni. I come in town and done one or two washings a week. Yes maent 4. 1~15

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I walked here and back. That kept me in a little money. It waa about two miles. I washed tor Mr. L. Hall a~d part of the time tor Mrs. Kate Hazen. I g~,aess they treated us right about the crop settlement. We thought they d1~. We knowed how much was made end how much we got. The cheatin come at the stores where the trading was done. . I lives with my Son and his wife. Sometimes I do my cooking and somet Irne s I eat in there I get ~8 . 00 from the RFC and prune s, rice and a little dried milk. I buys my meal and sugar and lard and little groceries with the money. It don t buy what I used to have on the farm. I don t remember rnu~ch about the war. I was sO little. I heard them talk a lot about lt and the way they killed folks. I thought it . was awful. My hardest time is since I got old and can t work. 5. 146

Spells - voodoo. 148 147

Little Rock District FOLKLORE SUBJECTS ~ 7 ~ ~ Name of Interviewer Irene Robertson Subject S~e11e-Voodoo~ Story Thforniation (If notenough space on this page add page) I ask d her if she believed anyone could harm her arid she said not not unless they could get her to eat or drink something. Then they might . $he said a G~pey was feeling her and slipped a dollar and a quarter tied up in her handkerchief from her and she never did knob when or how she got it. Said she never believed their tales or had her fortune told. She didn t believe anyone could put anything under the door and because you walked over it you would get a spell . She said soue people did. ~he didn t know what they put under the doors. She never was conjured that she knew of and she doesn t believe in it. Said she had towrk too hard to tell tales to her children but she used to sing. She can t remember the songs she sang. 5he can t read or write. The old won~rn is blind and gray, wears a cap. Her Mistress was Mrs. gary and her Master was Mr. Hardy Sellers in Chesterfield County, South Carolina. Her husband died and left her with six children. Her brother came with a lot of other fellows to Arkansas. Everybody was coming either here on to Texae~. Mr. David Gates at DeValls Bluff sent her a ticket to come to his farm. Her brother was working for Mr. Gates Wattensaw plantation and that is where she has beentill a few years ago she moved to Hazen and lives with her son and his wife. She remembered when the Civil War soldiers took all their food, mulee and hitched Mrs. Sellers driving horses to the surry and drove off. w29b~

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Page 2. Her Mistress cried and cried. She said she had a hard time after she left Mr. and Mrs. Sellers, they was sure good to them and alwaya had more than she had ever had since. She wanted to go back to South Carolina to see the ones she left but never did have the money. Said they lived on Mr. Dick Small s place and he was so good to her and her children but he is dead too now. This infor~riation given by HannahRancock Place of Residence,_~ Hazen1 Arkansas ________ Cccupationworkinthecottonfield Cookandwash. ~e9O She is blind. She gets $8.00 pension, she is proud to tell. 148

[Interview with Haney, Julia E.] 150 149

30866 . 149 Interviewer SaaueiS.Taylor ~ ~ Person interviewed Julia I. Han~ - 320 Pulaski S~e~ Little B~OCk~ ~4rk~ii Age_~_?8 _~ ~ I was born in Gallatin, Tennessee twsnty-aix ailes north of Nashville September 18 1859. Willard Blue and Mary Blue were my master and my mistress. ~ .~~___> __*I wanted to put in for a pension and didn t want to tell a story about my aga. In reading the Oazett, I found out that Willi~ Blue got shot by an insurance nmn in Dallas, Texas over a stenographer. I found out where my young master was and after allowing lili time to gt over his grief, I wrote to him about my age. He irote nie that Andrew was the oldest and he didn t know, so he sent ~y letter to Tacoma, Tennssss,to Henry Blue. Henry wrote to him and told hin to look In the bottcm of the ward robe in the old family Bible. He looked there and found the Bible and sent my age to me. They wrote to me and sent me s~e money end were awful nice to z~ They ~ said that I was the only one of the slaves living. Good Masters Our masters were awful good to us. They didn t treat us like we wers slaves. My mother carried the keys to everything on the place. They lived in the city. They didn t live in the country. I came here in 1869. lsmily My niothsr mnsrrid a Thompson. Her married n~. mas Margaret Thciupion and her name before sh married was Margaret Berth.

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Her master before she married wa~ Berth Her la8t master was Blue ~ Her mother 8 name was Cordel la Lowe Her meiden name was Berth Then the old man Berth died, he made hi s will and billard Berth didn t want any slaves because he wanted to train his children to work. Willard, my mother s master should have been a Berth be cause he was old man Berth s son, but he called himself Blue. It might have been that old man Berth was hie steprather. Anyway he went by the name of Willard Blue. He was an under.. taker. My a name was Oliver Thompson. I don t remember any ot my father s people. His people were in Nashville, Tennessee, and my mother s people were in Ge.llat in, Tennessee We were separated in ~Bla~very. Separation of Parente I don t know how my mother and father happened to get together. They didn t belong to the aan~ master. My tather belonged to Thompson and lived in Nashville and my mother belonged to Blue In Gallatin. They were not together when freedom came and never did get together after freedom. They only had one child to my knowledge. I don t know how they happened to be separated. It was when I was too an~.ll. Nashville is twenty-six miles from Gallatin. Perhaps one family or the other moved away. Patroliere I have heard my mother speak about the paterolee. I don t know whether they were pateroles or not. They had guards out to see if the slaves had passes and they w~.tld atop them when they would be going out tor anything. They would stop my mother when she would b. going out to get the cows to see it she had a pass. 2. 15()

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z 1! :-. * . . . Jayhawkera *1 never heard my mother speak of jayhawkera, but I have heard her say that they used to catch the slaves when they were out I don t know whether it was jayhawkera or . I don t know what they done with them after they caught them. I have heard other people speak of jayhawkers. My people were very good to us. They never bothered my mother. She could go and come when she pleased and they would give her a pass any time she told them she wanted one. Really Scared to Death I know one thing my ma told me. When the soldiers cat~ through, there was SIL old rebel eating breakfast at our place. He was a man that used to handcuff slaves and carry them off and sell them. He nust have stolen them. When he heard that the Yankees were marching into town with all them bayonets shining, it scared him to death. He sat right ther at the breakfast table and died. I don t know his naine but he lived in Tennessee. Mother s Work My mother was a cook and she knitted. She molded candles and milked the cows, and washed and ironed. 8he and her children were the only slaves they owned. They never whipped my mother at all. I stayed in the houas. They kept me there. I never had to do anything but keep the flies oft the table ihen they were eating. Schooling My grandtather ~ve me my schooling after I came here. I had come here in 1869. I went to school in Capitol Hill and Union Schools.

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4. 152 Mn. Hoover (whit.) waa one of the teachei e at Union 8choo . when I was there. She was a good teacher. Ilias lottie Andr ws eh is a $tephens now waa another one of my teachers. ~ ~--------~- How Freedcm CalM : ~ ~ ~ My master caine right on the back porch and called my mother out and told her she was frse, that he ~sn t going in no war. That wa~ at th beginning when they were mustering in the soldiers to fight the tar. And he didn t go neither. She stayed with hua till after ~mancipation. ~. was as free as she could be and he treated her as nice as anybody could bs treated. She had th keys to ~ver thin~. Kouse Furniture and Food My mother had a little house ~ck in ths yard joined to the back porch and connected with the kitchen. It had one ro~m. ~ie did all cooking in hie kitchen. Her room was just a bedroom. The tu~rniture was a bed with high posters. It didn t have slats, it had 1O~S8. It waa a corded bed. They had boxea tor everything slse-..tor bureaus, chairs, and things. Further 1~taila about Schooling I went to school aa far as the eighth grad.. Professor Ha .e, Proteasor Mason, and Professor umbau were some of the teachers that taught ne. They all said I was one of the brightest scholars they had. Later Life P.1 ~ - ~ marrisd Cado Haney in 1882. He is dead now. Hi s been dad nearly forty year.. le didn t livs together but fifteen years bsfoxs he disd.

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5. 153 w. n.v.~ had no children, After h died I lawid.ri.d for a living until I got too old to work. Now I get old age aaaiate~ce. Interviewer a Coiiuent A mighty aweet old lady to talk to.

[Interview with Hankins, Rachel] 155 154

per~1a M. ~ ~-m Itach.1 ffenkinp~ ~1 Dorado Arkan~sas~ Intervi~w.r_______ Person intervlewd hge~ ~ $1 ~aa born in Alabsaa. My old miatreaa and I1%ftstex told me that I au t member the day and~ nionth. I was a girl abo it tISIT. or tourte.n years old when the old darkies was set free. My old mistress and master did~ not call us nig~ers; they called us darkies. I can t recollect imtch abou~t alavery and I can recollect lots too at t1~s, 3t~ mind goes e~d cc~as. I tell you children you all la living a ~1t lite nowdayso Ihen I. Was coming up I was sold to a family In Alabama by the na~ of Columb~s. They was poor people and they did not own but a te~ ala~es end it was a large family of them and that made us have to work hard. ~s lived down in the field in a long house. Is ladies and girls lived in a log cabin together. Our cabin had a stove room made on the back end it was made ot clay and gaas with a hearth made in it and we cooked on the hearth. We got our food trcin old mistrses e and maatsr s houes. We raised plenty of grub mich as peas, greens, potatoes. Btit our potatoes wasn t like the potatoes le now. They was white and when you eat them they would choke you, especially it they was cold. And aorghum molasses was the only kind there was, I don t know where ail these different kinds of molasses co from. They iasued our gr~ib out to us to cook. They had cows end w got milk sometimes but no butter. They had chickens and eggs tmt we did not. was born in 1850. Get that good 18501 That makes ~ about 88 but I 154

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2. :155 we ra1se~ cotton, aoJ4 part and kept enough to aak our clothes out of. Raised corn. And there ~aen t no gnat mil1~ thsn ao wo had a pounding rock to pound the corn n and wo pound and pound until we got the corn fine enough to make meal, then we separated the huak from the ~a1 and parched the husk ral brown and we ueed it for coffee. We used brown sagar from aorghu.u~ molasses. We apin all our thread and wove it into cloth with a hand loom. The reason we called. that cloth hcme~spin la because it ~i.8 spun at hcsns. Splitting rails and making rail fencea was all the go. Wasn t no wire fences. Nothing but rail fences. ~ishing and clearing was our winter jobs. You. see how rough my hands is? I~rd have mercy! child, I have worked in my life. Master Columbus would call us niggsra up on 8~nd.ay evening end read the Bible to us and tell us how to do and he taught u.s one song to sing and lt was this Keep Your Lamp Thi~ed and ~xrning and he d have us to sing it every Sunday evening and he told us that that song meant to do good and l~t each other see our good. then it rained we did not have xneeting but when lt was dry we always had meeting. ~I never went to school a day in my life. I learned to count money after I was grown and married. My feet never saw a shoe until I was fourteen. I went barefooted in Ice and snow. They was to~igh. I did not feel the cold. I never had a cold when I was young. If we had ep-.p zu-~dit we used different things to make tea out of, auch as shucks, cow chips, hog hoofs, cow hoofs. p-p-zu-dit then is ~hat people call flu now. When war broke out I was a girl just so big. All I can recollect i~ seeing the soldiers march and I recollect them having on blue and gray jackets.

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3. :156 Scme would ride ~nd some would walk and when they all got lined up that was a pretty a1~ht. They would keep step with the music. Ths Southern soldiers song waa Look Away Dom In Dix end the Northern so song was Yankes Doodle Dandy. So on.. day after coming In fromi the tie1d~ old master called his slaves and told us we was tree and told u.s we could go or stay. If we stayed he would pay us to work. We did not have nothing to go on so we stayed and he paid us. very 19th of Jun. he would let us clean off a place and fix a platThrm and have dancing end eating out there i~ the field. The 19th of June 1865 is the day w thought w. was freed but they tell me now that we was freed in ~enuary 1865 ~it is did not know it until Yune 19, 1865. Never got a beating the whole tise I was a slave. I came to north Arkansas forty years ago and I been in Union County a short while. My name is Rachel Hankina.

[Interview with Hardridge, Mary Jane] 158 157

ThterYieWer~~~ - ~ - ---~-- ~ !~~wd~ep ~ ~ ---w-r--- ~ Person interviewed Mary Jan Hardrid~ ~ W-- ~ U S~~~U * ~L ~ 1.501 West Barraqu. St. Pine Bluff Ark. *Oh don t ask me that, honey. Yea, I waa here in 8lavery days. I reckon I was here bfore the Civil War; I was born in 52. I m right now in D1~ birth county about four miles from this city. I can rentember my young maatera that went to war. One wae named Ben and one Chria. Old maeter 8 name wae Yeinee Scull. He was kinda mixed ~tp he waan t the crueleat one in the world. I va heard ot acme that waa worse than he waa. I never suffered for nothin to eat. I can tell you about myaolt aa far back ae I can remember. I know I was about thirteen or tourteau when the war ended. My father s birth home was in Virginia. Ria name was 11am Price and hie father was a doctor and a white man. ~ther e name waa Mary Price and she was hail Indian. You can tell that by looking at her picture She waa born in Arkansas. *1 can remember easing the ~ t had to knit socks for them. Used to have to knit a pair a week. Yes ma m I used to serve them. I had it to do or get a whippin . I nursed and I sewed a little. My mother was a great seamstress. We did it by hand too. They didn t have no sewing machines in them times. ~When my white folks went on awimier vacations ~ they was rich and traveled a great deal -~ mama always went along and she just left us children on the plantation just like a cow would leave a calf.

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2. ~L 8lie d hate to do it though. I remember she went off o~e t irne and stayed three inonthe and left me sick in the white folks house on a pallet. I know I just hollered arid cried end mama cried too. There wal another old colored lady there and. she took me to her house. We lived right on the river where the boat landed and I remember the boat left at high noon and I cried all the rest ot the afternoon. I remember the tiret Yankee I ever eaw. They called him Captain Hogan. I had a white chile in my arma. He set there and asked the boas how many Negroes did he have and the boas said what was the news. He come out to let the Negroes know they was aa free as he was and told Marss ~~im to bring all of them back from Texas. I know I run and told ma and she said You better hush, you ll get a whippin . They aho didu t ~rn up nothin just took the iailea and. horses. Now I remember that ~ they didn t hirn up nothin where I lived. I heard of the Ku Klux ~it I never seen any. We was expeotin em thoug~i at all times. Iiy grandmother belonged to Creed Taylor and after freedom tnn~ got her and 8he lived there with the Sculls two years. My mother and father was paid a salary and they paid me too ~ four dollars a month. And I remember mama never would let me have it just give me what she wanted me to have. They treated U8 better than they did before the war. Cose they was a little rough, but they couldn t whip you like they did. They could threatsn it though. I went to school just a little after freedom. Mama and papa wasn t able to send me. Wasn t no colored teachers ccmpetent to teach then and we had to pay the white teacher a dollar a month.

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3. 1:59 I had very etriot parents and was made to mind. When I went out I knew when I was canin in. I had one daughter who died when she warn eig~it years old and it I could bring her back now, I wouldn t do it cause I know she would worry me to death. I used to sew a lot for people in Pine Bluff but I em too old now. I own my home and I have some rooms rented to three young i~n student a and I get a little help from the Weirar. so I manage to get along. Weli good~bye ~ I in glad you come.

[Interview with Hardridge, Mary Jane] 161 160

~r~ ~ ~ ~ Intsrvie~ Mrs. J.rni.i Bowdsn -~ ..~_ ~~N4 - ~ _ ~ ~*J_ ~ u- ~ ~ ~ - U Person int.~riis~d ~y J w r~I75o1s1; ~ . ~ . ! ~. ; ~ ~ * ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ leu. I don t bslisvs in aigus ~oh. My alster va. u.k about a y.sr on... ~~ay itid .h had thi T. B. (tizb.roulosi.). ~ie day I was there and ehe said, Sis, do you hear that psekerwood? Wi dritin a nail in ay ooffin. And enrs enough abs died not long aftr. Rat l t ~ tsll you I had a psautier dre ysaterday aorning just before day. ~isre s a little child hers. Ei. other died end left his, the baby child. I droa~t his mother brought hin to . ~ie said, I brought ny boy here and I vent you to ksep hin. I thought h. oc to ~ just as naked as he sould b,. Hs kspt sayin , Ooue on, Ira. Bardrigs, and let s go h~, 1a sold. Is did* t hate a gsrnt on. Hi. ~ther was with hin and she s dead you know. I ~ntion.d it to one of ny n.igkbors end she said it ~i a sigi ot .~ wosan s death. I was very ioh devoted to th. ohild. I lows hin, end that dreen stsy.d with ill day. I don t know b~t I~Ys always heard it you dresa of ths dead it . goin to rain. .1 ain t tour ailsi trou whre I ~. born. I ~s born asrosa the rivsr. Is b.longsd to Jin bull. I ve lived all ny lite in Jefferson County. ~74S 160

[Interview with Hardy, O. C.] 162 161

161 Q i~( ~. O ~ ~ - Interviewer Pernella Anderson Person Interv1ewedQ~,~Hardy~_ Age 69~ ~ .~ . E: ~ io~io ~ - ~ ~ ~ ~ ~.ht de. ? A1 W ~~ o. C. Hardy i8 1fl~ naine and I is 69 years old. I like a lot of being a real old time slave, but I tell you I am a slave now and am t no 1800 s lave I was born way down In Louis lana. We lived on a plantation with some white people by the name of Chick Johnson. That is the first place I remember we ever stayin on. My ma and pa slave for them folks. All of the children worked like slaves. What I mean by working like slaves we didn t stop to get our breath until night. I was slavin for just the white folks then and since I got grown and married I ve been slavint for my wife and children and the white folks. My mama and papa went in the naine of their mistress and s name and s o did I so we was all Hardys . V, Sixty-nine years ago the time t like it is now. Everything was different. There was no cars, no airplanes, a few buggies, no trains. The go was ox teams and stage coaches. People used ox teams In place of mule and horse teams. Sometimes you would see ox teams with twelve and fourteen oxen. The ox wore yoke e that somet line we 1gb a hundred or more un. The reason of that, they were so mean they had to wear them yokes to hold em down, One yoke would go across two oxen s heads. They could pull - oh myl - as much as some big trucks. We made much better crops back in the 1800s than we do now. The winters was much harder and you know the harder the winter the better the crop year

163 162

2. ) 162 you h~ve. We always plowed and turned our g round over in the hard of winter - that was in order for the cold to kil . a .1 insect and, germs in the ground. You see, worms eats up your seed and plant, and germs do your seed and plant just like they would do your body. So we got rid of them little hinderings. In January we was ready to get our corn ground ready for planting, and mani we raised some: crops. I recollect one year way back yonder we had what they cafl ed a centennial snow - that was the biggest snow that s ever been and the best crop year I ever knowed. I started plowing when I was about eight. Before then all I can remember dom was bushing. After gathering crops we split rails and built fences. We played on Sunday evening Our s port was hunt In fi shin and bird thrash~in and trap settin . To catch fish easy we baited snuff and to bacco on the hook. We used to be bad about stealin watermelons, eggs, chickens and sweet potatoes and slippin way down in the woods and cookin . . f flWasntt no such things as screen windows and doors. That is some of this 1900 stuff to my knowing. Flies and mosquitos was plentiful. Our cooking was plain boiled or fried cause we cooked on fireplaces. Wasn t no stoves. We used all brown sugar from syrup that turned to sugar. White sugar is about forty years old to my knowings. My ma used to cook the best old syrup cake and syru.p potatoes pudding. She knitted all our socks and sweaters for you couldntt buy things like that because stores was few and she spun and wove for the white folks and knitted too.

[Interview with Hardy, Rosa] 164 163

~C4O2 #658 163 Interviewer Mies Irene Robertson ~ Person interviewed Rosa Rard; Biscoe Arkansas -l _-1 ~UL~_U~~J. Age ? _L-____ ~ ~ - - - - - - ~ - - - - - - - - - .~ - - - ~ ~I was born in Brownsville T~nnessee. My ~othsr died when I iaa real young, and I had no father. Pike Sutton was mother s master. Re was my old grandfath.r. Es ouned a big Larm. Toys ~itton was his son and ~y father. Mother was li~t but not as li~.it as I sa. I had a sister older than I a~ I lived with. I never lived among white tolka except in a tom with thsa. I don t know a thing abotit ~ people to tell. I don t know my age. I give myself a birthday. I don t know ~ ~ ~ the day nor month I was born. ~it I m old. I can count back: enough to tell that. 1 work in the sewing room. I ~ the oldest wo~n in there at De Talla Blurt. I get twenty-one dollars and this month I am to get twenty-seven. Rit you, don t have work time a~ not good. I know that. I do t hardly know the young generation. or course I see thsa bit that is all. They hurrying their way and I m going my way.~

[Interview with Harper, Eda] 165 164

3OJ~O7 . ~ 164 .. ~4 Interviewer L ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ U-J~~ - ~ s, Person intervisv.d . . U Ra~r : ~s ~9 ~ p~j~ ttz~.h; ~ ~ ~ A~ 95. ~ __a___-__ u- u-u ~ ~ ~ ~~~ s. ~ ~ Now what you waiit with i~? I w&a born inMiaaj~i~. I ccme hsrs toilable young. I se ninety-three now. . My old master mean to us. le uaed to watch tor him to eo~ In ta. bi~ gate, then is l un and hide. ~e used to cc~e to ths quartera and maki US Chiliflit Sifl . lii PIQkS ua aing Dixie. Sometimea he make ue sing half a day. Sesaie 11k. DIxie his main song. I teLl. you I don t like lt nov. Thit have marcy! Hi make ua sing lt. Seams like all thi ihite folks like Dixie. I a glad when he went away to var. I *BLtt they u..d t fe.d you. Heap bsttsr meat than you get nov. I tell you they had things to eat In them days. . eI mamber ihm the eoldiere was ccmin through and runtin the ihite folka both waya. Law chile ~ you don t know nothin ! le used to hide in the cistern. Olki time when the Yankees oc~ in a rush my brother and bid. in th. feather bed. .. Ihen the war ended, ~ite man cc~ to the field and till m~ mother.. inailaw she fr e as he is. She dro~psd her ho. and danced up to the turn road and danced right up into old maetsr e parlor. &e went so tait a bird could a sot on hsr drue tail. That was in Yune. That night ihs amt and got all the neighbor. and they danced all night long. *1 nsver went to school a day in my life. I wish I could read but they ain t no ua. viehin for spilt milk. .

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2. 165 Row lon I been in Arkansas? let me see how many chillun I had since I been to Arkaiisaa. Let ~ see ~ I fotch four chillun with m and I se the mother of ten.. YS8 m I she has worked hard.. I worked in the field and cooked and washed and ironed. But oh Lord I likes my freedom. 3: couldn t tell you what I think of this present generation. They is just like a hose on the battle field -~ white and black. They say Grandma, you just an old fogy. WI think they is another slave-time gal down In the next block. You want ii~ to show you?

Signs and superstitions. 167 166

16G FOIXLCR~ ~ Name or inter~ie~r lira. Bernice Bowdn ~ _- _~J V~~~I*-, ~ ~ .~ Subject -~u-~ ~ ~ ~ .--~-~ - Story - Iziromatlon C It not enough apace on thie page add page) In elavery tia. you uaed to carry a rabbit foot in your pockot to kssp old masaa trou ihippin you.~ Thie intoraation girsn by ldaHarp.r C ) Place of r.aidsncs 819W. Th~Usii 8tret, Pins &utr~Arkenaaa Occupatioi~ ~ ~ -~- ~ . _____

Games of pro-war days. 168 167

~y FOLKLORE WBJECTS Name ot interviewer Mr..Bsrnic.Bowden ~ibject -~rn ~ ~ ~ Story ~ Information (It i~ot enough apace on this par, add pap) *1. ueed to play a gs~ called Once Over. Throw a bail oier the house and if they caught it on the other aide, they d run around and try to catch you. RThen we ueed to play Ride the Switch, And if you found it, the othere all run to keep fr~ bein hit. Oh Lawd, that a been a long ti~ie.~ mi information given by ZdaHarper ( ) Place of reeideno 819 1. Pii11~ Pin. B1LffJ Arkaneaa Occupation NODh~. ~ ~ 9O~

[Interview with Harris, Abram] 169 168

~~:~T7i ~ ~~ThL ~ ~ #776 168 Interviewer Watt MeKirmey Person Interviewed - Abram Harris ~ ~ Mar~efl ~T~k anias (6 mTI~s wei tl Age 93 Abram Harris, ~U ex slave, just past ninety-three years of age lives with his dat~ghter, Hannah, 70 years old, on the farm of Mr~ Alice Davison a few miles west of Marvell, Arkansas. The two of them have just completed., within the last few days, the harvesting of a small crop of cotton and corn, and. Abram was foiiM in a small thicket not far from their cabin where he was bus~ ily engaged in cutting some firewood. for their winter use. A email tree had. been felled and the old. man was swinging his axe with the strex~gth and. enthusiasin of one far younger than he as the wood. was being cut to the proper length for hi s heater. Interrupted at my approach? Abram laid. aside the axe and greeted. me with that courtesy so characteristic of an ex-slave. After statix~g the purpose of my visit, the old. negro apparently pleased at this opportunity afforded. hirn to rest and. talk, sat on the body of the newly cut tree and. told me the following story: . Yes sir, Cap n, my name is Abram Harris and. I Is jist past ninety-three year old.. :&~ cose I knows dat I don t look dat old. en all de folks sey dat I acts er heap younger dan my age iffen I really is old as I claims, en I kin still wuk bettern heap deae young une, kase I ia always knowed how ter wuk. My old. Boss Man teach nie de tricks. I~e war er wu.kker he-self, en ebery body lied ter roll roun Old Mirster. He neber low no lazy puasen ter stay wid him. Yes sir Cap n, I sho has kept up wid my age eber since dat time when Old Marster tole me how oie I is. Yo kin see dat I is er old nigger, kase

170 169

~ ~ -z . 169 dees here whiskers so white en de hair on my hald. so white too. Wh~ ye see dat on er nigger yo kin know dat he er old. pussen right off. I gwine ter tel . yo how cum dat I sho knows how old I I s . Er heap er nigge re d.ey tell yo dat dey is so en so year old when dey amt no sich er thing en dey don t know dey age, but I does, en hit wus jes dis er way. I WLI5 borned. en raised in Sou.th Carolina not fur fram Greenville en my Old Marster whu.t I belonged ter, wus Marse Hodges Brown, en my young Marster he wus Marse Hampton, en me en Marse Hampton wus abo born in de s~e mont en de same year, en de ment, hit wiia October, en date zack whut Old. Marster tole me, en Marse Hampton sed dat same thing. iJ8 vue boys togedder, me en Marse Hampton, en wu.s jist er bou~t de same size, en Marse Hampton, he claimed me, en I gwine ter be his property when bofe us grown. Dat is iffen de war not cum on en Marse Hampton had nt er got kilt in de battle. When de war fust brake out, Marse Hampton be too young den ter jine de troops, bow sum eber he wnt ter j me up den when he o ider bru~dder Marse Thad, j me up but Old. Mi s she wud nt hear ter Marse Hampton gwine off den, kase he not old enuf, en den, he Old Mis baby chile. Marse Thad, he bout two er three year older dan Marse Hampton en he jine de troops at de f ust muster en went off ter de war en fit de Yankees night bout two years when de ball shot him in de shoulder, en he wounded den en hab ter cum bak home fer ter git well ergin. Atter Marse Thad cum ~iome en stay fer er mont er sich time fer he wou.nd ter heal up, den he ready ter go bak ter de company, en liarse Hampton gwine ter be eighteen year old pretty soon den, so dey swade Old Mis ter let Marse Hampton go wid Marss Thad bak ter de war, so Old Mis en Old Marster, dey gib in en Marse Hampton lef wid Marse Thad ter jine up wid. him in de same company whut he In when de ball hit him. NOW dat wuz in de spring when Marse Hampton jine up wid de troops, en hirn en me gwine ter be eighteen dat fall in October, but hit twarnt

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3- as awful long fore Marse Hampton got kilt in de big battle, en Marse Thad too. Dey wuz bofe kilt in de charge right dar on de bres wuks, wid dey guns in dey hans, dem two young Marsters er mine, right dar in dat Gettysburg battle, dats whut Old Marster en. Old Mie bofe tole me er meny er time, en I wus eighteen in dat October atter dat big fight whut Mars Thad en Marse Hampton git kilt in, en Marse Hodges writ hit down fer me on er paper, en ebery October since den I gite simbody whu~t kin figger ter tell me how old I is so s I kin know en tell folks when dey ax me, en jes last mont, my gal Hannah fi~er~i hit out er gin en she sey dat I is now ninety three past, so dat is de way dat I gits at hit Cap n. Now is dat right? My white folks wue sho good ter all dey niggers. Dere wu.s nigh bout no whippin er tall, least Old. Marster neber did whip his slaves ter do no good, en he moe ginerally tole u.s mwnmies er pappies ter do de whippin er de cliiiluii en. de older boys en gals. He hab whip me do en he whip Marse Hampton too when us wus boys. Old Marster start in wid dat hickry en inek out lak he gwine ter frail u.s out, but atter he done landed er few licks on us, en den us commence hollerin lak he hirtin bad, den he quit whippin, dat de way Old Mar ster wus. He neber want ter hurt nobody. 0My pa wus name, Jake, en my Mammy wus named, i~anny, Old Marster bought dem frum suzn whar, bu~t 1 wus borned. right dar, me en Delia en aLl de res er de chillun. Cap n, wud. ye lak fer nie ter tell ye bout dat time d.9t me en Della wuz stole? Well, we sho wux stole. De Speckle ladies (speculators or traders) stole u.s er way frwn Old Marster when us wus chillun, bout twelve er thirteen year old. Hit happened in de night, w~n dar warnt nobody dar in de auarters but de wimmin. Old Marster en all de men wus down on de ribber dat night, er floatin logs er cuttin timber er sum sIch wuk es dat, when dese hear folks

172 171

.4-I 171 curn er stealin chillu.n. Della en me was de Lust ones dat dey grab en de onliest onee dat dey git frurn Old Marster, but dey sho got us. I members dat stea ,in good. Dem folks tuk u~s off ter de woods whar dey tied us up ter er t ree fer e r who le night en day en t e 11 u s dat i ffen we cry er ho I 1 er dat dey gwine ter kills u.~ sho. Den dey own en tuk us er way en ganged u.s up wid er lot mo nigger boys en gals whut dey done stole sum whare else. Dey yoked lAS togedder en walked us clean ter Georgia whar dey sole us. Dey sho pushed. dem chillu.n hard ober de rocks: en de hard place8 till our feets wud bleed. frum de sores whar de rocks en de thorns scratch. Dey sole nie en Delia ter er young white man en he wife vhut ain t been married long en ain t got no start er niggers yit. Us stayed dar fer mc dan er year I rekkin, en dem wus good white folks en wu.s good ter us. De Mis teach Delia ter be er house gal en de Marster teach me ter handle stock en plow wid him eber1,: day. Us wus skeered. ter tell dem white folks whu.t bought u~s whar us home wu.s en wbo us Marsters u.sed ter be, kase we skeered. dat de 8peckle~ladie8 mout cum bak en steal us sum mo, en tek us er way sum mo. I don t knOw h~w hit wus dat Old ~arster Hodges Brown cu.m ter fine out whar we wtIS, but he sho learnt er bout hit sum sich er way, en one rnornin early here cum Old Marster Hodges Brown wid two mo white mens cu~min att6r r~ en Delia. Atter dey thru. dentifyin us, Old. Marster tuk us on bak home wid hirn, en we sho wus glad ter go. Now Cap n, dat is de tru.f I am tellin you bout dat stealin, when me en Delia wus stole. My pappy wue nMled, Jake, en he wu~s de wagoner fer Marster till he d.aid, den Marster tuk me er~ trained me fer de wagoner atter den. My Marster warnt no big, rich man lak er heap er de white folks In dem slabery times, ylt en still, he sho hed. er plenty er ebery thing, en de bes of all he fed he niggers good en wu.s always good ter tern. Mareter used ter peddle er heap in Columbia

173 172

172 en c~reenvi11e bofe atter I git ter be de wagoner fer hirn. Us wud tek big loads er taters en trw~k ter dem towns whar Marster wu.d. sell em ter de folks dar. Sumtimes he wttd. tek er bout twenty beeves ter one er dein towns en rent him er y&rd~ whar he wud. bu~to1~r er bout one beef bery day en peddle ou~t de meat. Marster neber hed. many niggers lak lots de white folks. He je~ hed er bout er dozen in all. He sey dat all he want, er got eny use fer. Marster hed. er big fruit orchard.. Jes all kines er fruit wad be in dat orchard, &i when dey ripe, Marster send loads dem apples en peaches down ter de still whar he had. dem niade up in ter Brandy en put in de kegs en barrels en brought bak home when hit done. Heap er times dat I members he call de . folks up ter de bak gallery en sey, Own on u.p here folks en git yo all er w. Dat s whut he say. ~tihilst our Marster wus ~ ood ter all he niggers, dar wus heap er de rnarsters in dem slabery times whut wus mean., en ~~t whut mek de niggers run off en hide in de woods, en dats when dey git de ni:~er hounds on em en track ein down jes lak ye do er coon. My pappy, Jake, he owned by er mean white man, fore old Marster botight him in. I members bout him tellin us chiliun when he used ter run off en hide in de caze thickets fer days en days kase he rnarster so mean en beat him u.p so bad., en dat he git so hungry dat he slip bak in close ter de house in de night, en dat sum de wimmins slip him sum meat en bread. He sey dat he used. ter sleep wid. de dogs under de crib on cold nights so de togs cud keep him warm. l .r warnt none er de white folks in dem slabery times whut wud let dey niggers hab any learnin. To sho better not be cotch er tryin ter learn no readin er writin. Our Marster neber eben lowed dat, en iffen er nigger wus ter be foun whut cud. write, den right straight dey wud chop his fore finger offen dat han wkiit he write wid.. Dar warnt no sich er thing es no schools fer d~e niggers till atter de surrender.

174 173

173 *Endurln er d~e war, dar warnt no fightixi tu.k place rouit whar us ibed, en de onilest Yankees dat I eber sced, wus In Greenville atter de surrender. I sho w;is sprized when I seed. d~em Yankees, kase I Lieber knowed whut sort er loo.kln thing dat er Yankee wu.s. No Sir, Cap n, I neber knowed dat er Yankee wus er man jee lak my white folks till I seed. d~ in Greenville, but yo know Cap n er Yankee looks jes lak yo is, oniy he do talk funny en fast, ~ so dan de kine er white folks dat I is alwa~ys been er roun. Dar warnt nary one er old Marsters niggers whu~t lef him eben when dey set free, dat is dey d.id n lebe him fer two er three years eny way, but atter den sum of em started ter d.riftin er roun en hirin er roun er bout. When de sur render cum, Old Marster tole em all dat dey free en kin go iffen dey want ter go, en effen dey want ter go dat he gib em sum grub ter go on. Marster wu.s er good flan ~L iffen he war libin ter day, I wud sho qttit dia place en go on wid him, whar suin-eber he want me ter go. :No Sir, Cap n, de niggers dey did n know what de war wus gwine on fer, en dey did n know dat dey free till dere marsters tole em, whilst dey wus wantin ter be free all right. Atter us wus free, de white folks hab ter teach us jea lak yo teach er chile. ~Dern Klu Klux whu.t dey wus white mens. Dats whut mente wid. er red cross on whwt dey claim is mean en Then dem Xlu Klux lust curn brought on atter de surrender wus sho pizen. L~y dey wus ~i ai . ires sed up in dem long white gar- em en ridin er big hose. Dey wus atter dem niggers zerted dey marsters en went en tuk up wid de Yankees. in operation de niggers think dat dey Is hante er spirits, till dey fine out dat dey warnt nuthin but white mens wid dem garn~nts on em, Dem Klux wud cotch er nigger dat dey want en pin he haid down ter de grouti wid er forked stick en one wu.d. hold him whilst de others whip im wid er strop er a lash. Yes sir, Cap n, dem Klu Klux sho did dis-encourage de niggers er heap.

175 174

74. Plenty er de white mens whut wu.e mustered In ter de war wud tek er pigger wid~ ~n te r wait on em en ter tend te r de ho se es en de s ich ebe r whu.t d.ey want done, en I sho did want ter go wid. Marse Hampton, ~i niebbe dat I cud. tek care of 1m. Marse Hampton want me ter go wid him too en try ter swad.e Old. Marster ter 1 et me go but Old. litlarster aey dat he hab ter hab me dar at home ter help rnek de crops so s dat he kin send. corn en meat ter d.e sojers. De day dat Marse Hampton lebe, he c~n down ter de quarters fer ter tell all de niggers good~bye, ~ he sey ter me Abe, he called. me Abe, I gwlne off ter dat war en kill ou~t dat whole crowd er Yankees, en den I se cumin bak en gwine ter Georgia en bu.y me er farm whar I kin git rich znekin cotton en terbakker. Yo know yo is my nigger en yo gwine ter Georgia wid me, when I goes . Hit she did hurt me when Marse Hampton got kilt kase i lubed. dat white nan. He w~is good ter me. In my dreams at night I kin yit see Marse Hampton, en er heap er times in de day when I is by myself er hoein de cotton he talks ter nie plain s I kin uz4erstand, en he ax me iffin I is yit en still er good nigger, en tell me ter not be dis~encouraged. Cap n de Bible ~8 right when hit sey dat, De young mens dream dreams en de old uns see de visions . I kin jee natchally feel spirits, Cap n, I sho don t spute dat. I is skeered ter spute hit. When yo is gwine long de road en feel sum warm air, den dat is whar de spirits hes jes been. De wings er de daid. has done fanned. dat air till hits hot, en when I is gwine er long en hits dat hot air, den I knows dat sum spirit er hant hes been er long dat sane route, kase hit sho is hante in dis won, yit en still dey don t walk en act lak natchal people. Yes Sir, Oap n, I kin tell yo sum er dem old. songs whu.t de niggers used ter sing in de slabery times. Dis is aurn of em: Black Judy wus er go od. gal, En Black Judy wus er bad. gal too.

176 175

J~ old Mistis pronilsed me .dat when she died, she gwine set me free, But she lived so long en got so po dat she let me diggin wid er garden ho. 8 175 Mus Je8ue bear de cross alone and all d.e won go free? Oh Brother don t stay away Oh Blackslider, don t stay away Wheel e r bou.t en do er bout en jump Jim Crow. Ebery time I do er bout I do jes so. Yo an t do wrong en gi t by no matter how hard yo try. To kin do lak you. please en feel at yo ease But you can t do wrong i g lt by.

[Interview with Harris, Betty] 177 176

30764 176 4~~4 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson ~ ~ ~ Person interviewed Bet~J~ Harr~,Brinkley~, ~4rkansas ~.ce ~ About ~ c~r~ 50? My parents wus both in the Civil var. He was Levi Berthy and she was Misson Berthy. kid Hill was mother s owner. She said he was better to them than most owners. He never v;hooped eni0 Mother v~as real light and father was dark0 I was born in Pin.ola County, Mississippi. I had a stroke five years ago. I can t walk a step for tuo years flow0 My parents didn t let us hear them talk, they sent us out to play, then they died before they ~ot old. I never heard much of their own lives. I live with my dau~iiter and her husband, I don t ~et Welfare aid.

[Interview with Harris, Mary] 178 177

S ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ID Interviewerp ~- - ----~ ~1C~~n t ~-- ~ Person interviewed Mai~y~E~e~?ri. 713 1. Plum Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age~~~fi2 ~ *1 was born right here in Arkansas and I remember they was havin somethin I remember when they taken this town (Pine Bluff) The people what owned was the parson of the Methodist church ~ Parson Walsh. Tes aa in I knowed the Union soldiers was dressed in blue and the Secessora was called Gieybacks. My father was with the Yankee soldiers. I don t know how he got with em b~t I know he was gone away from this tom thres years. He co~ back here after he was miatered out in Vicksburg. ~I re~ienibar the Ya~kes soldiers cce and took the colored tolka away if they wanted to go. That was after s~trrendsr. They carried us to the ~ county band and fed us. I know the day the Yankees taken Pine Bluff; it was on Suzulsy and Marss Jesse went to services. The Secessor soldiers left Pine Bluff. Of course I didn t understand what it was all about cause in them times people didn t enlighten children like they does now. They know everything now, ain t no secrets. Most work I ve done is washin and ironin since I been a full~s groin, married wonian. I was twenty acme odd when I was married. I know I was out of my teens. WI went to school a good while after the war. ~y tiret teacher was Mr. Todd trcm the North.

179 178

2. 178 i: used to do right anart sewing. I did swing before machines cc~ to this tom. The frocks they used to makis ha~ frca five to ten yards. *1. is livin now in a ttn~ of sorry. Ihat they is dom ii told about in the acripturs.~

[Interview with Harris, Rachel] 180 179

d~ ~ ~ ~ ~. ~ \__ -i -- t_.~ ~: Intsrviev r Mn. Bsrnic Bowden ~/\ ------- - ----- u ~ ~ ----~~ --- - L~y~ Pei son iutex vl.isd Raclisi Earn. ~ ~ ~ ~4 I 71~h~~ ~ Ai~M I ~ ~ A~e 90 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I r..kol.ct wh.~ the war atartsd, I iaa big snuf to bs totin watsr, ew .pin feedin chi~ens. I waa a big chap whsn it startet. I wsnt with th. Whit chillun and watehsd the soldisre maichin. The di~e waa pleyia end the next thing I hesred, the ~r was gwine on. You could hear the guns just as plain. The soldi ers went by just in droves trc~ soon of a inornin till sundoin. They said they was goin to head off the Ysnksss. Dis fors the war ended I heered sa say they was gvine to fr.. the colored folks0 That ias in Mississippi. w old master was 7im~aith ~d old mistrels n~e va LQU1sS~~ith. WI had many a whip pat on . Ihen they iasn t whippin ~ the chillun was. They *ipped ~y mother and everybody. JIy brother Lswis went piwa through the war till surrender. He waited on a Rebel soldier cook.d end washed foe him. I never did ass no ~hiti Yankee soldiers but I seed. the colored ecldiera with the blue wits. I stood out many a night and day and heered them guns. *J im ~nith had near bc.tt a hundred boad of colored folks on his place. He didn t go to war he just sesd that all the ~it wc~n had plenty to eat while their ~n folks ~s away. ~ mother was sold away frcm my father long fors I vas born. Es used to come to visit, but a little mile fors I was born they stopped him and wouldn t let him come no more.

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. . ~ 2. 4!ter eurrozider one of my brothers oc~ ho~ end say the war ici over. ~We stayed there three years after surrender. They paid my mother and stepfather but they *uldn t psy Ui chiflun not~in o my mother . asnt me to town to live with my aliter. ~1 hired out as a nuns girl end them white tolka just as good to as as could be. She paid me $3 a month and give me all my clothes. I was young and didn t have no eanas, but all 1 didn t apend on candy I sent to my mother. ~In slavery times th. ihite folks had a aervant to c~b the hair and~ lift up the dress, Yea mc m, th.y had servants. I sho ice glad they had that war and treed ~. . EYes, ~Jeaua, I seen them Ku flux. I meiber once w. had a big baU. We ici cuttin a dash tb*t night. The Ku Klux oo~ end made out they was dead. 8o~ of the folki nm they was ao scared, but one wc~n co~ ~t end said she knowsd .vsry ozia of the ~n. She knowad em by their houes. Next mornin ~ went by old Parvis Nesisn i houas and it looked like th.y was a hundred saddles layin out in th yard. I ice a young ~m then end ~ sparkin fit to ki .1. Yea ma m I member aU. about it. I reekoleot it just a. loll as I can walk out that door. Ily son wrote i~ bout sight years ago and say, Mama, you is mi&it near a hundsrd. My daughter, my baby chile, 1. bout sixty-three. About this younger generation, I don t know *at to think. 8c~ say the dsvil loose for a season. I say if he ain t loose, he tied al4tty slack.* ~

Tales, superstitions and charms. 182 181

w 244 Little. Rook District FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Name ~ of Interviewer I rene Robert s on Subject ~ -- -~ ~ ~9~,ydC/~ft~5 Story - Information (If not enough space on this page add page) ~hen she was Lt child she remembered white children and colored nlayIng No E ooge rnian Ton ight . One would oat oh the other s a s they ran from behind big trees. Then whoever he caught would be the boogerman, till h.e caught somebody else. They made ash cakes and put black walnuts in ~t. It was just ~as good as crackling bread which w s made from rendering lard. They made molasses candy and pulled it at the L~ster s house during Christmas.. ******* ~:~4~*********** Mothers combed their children s hair Sunda3r and wrapped it, soine~ tii~~es had dyed string. The Master had a mule named ~ Only one on the farm could tend old ~ He would buck and kick. Sometimes he would run and he would lope if you hitched him to a buggy. ~~hen freedom came the master studied who would tend old Beck so he gave him to Jack. Jack felt so free as he rode from the farm out into the big world all his own and no place to go. In about a year Jack sent a letter back by somebody to the ~aster. I want you to send me ~2.OO of your awn money. L~ wife has gone raving destracted. My mule is dead. I am pestered and bothered. I bound ycu.~ * ** * ***** * ** ** This information given byRachelilarris Place of Residence GreenGrove, Hazen~~ Arkansas Occupation Field.-Lives with her dauj~ter. AGE 80

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~2.. 182 wi_il said thero used to be witches when soxr~body got mad with soi~e~ body they would bewitch the cows. You couldn t get the butter to con~ no matter how long you churned and sometimes a bew~to1ed cow would come up and gi.ve bloody milk. If you keep plenty salt around in the troughs the witches wouldn tcori~ about somuch. ********** **** ***;~~ * If you carry a rab~ t foot in your pocket it will bring you good luck. If you find an3rthing pointed with point toward you, that is a sign of good luck. If you put your shirt or dress on wrong side out, don t charwe it. Thats good luck for the day. ****** ********* ***** Don t start to sew a piece of goods on Friday unless you are sure you can get it done before night for that is ba4 luok. ** *4*** * ***** * * ~c * ** **

[Interview with Harris, William] 184 183

3O46~) Interviewer Mis s Irene Robertson i ~ _u-~~-_-- _~ ~ ~ -*_~__ _-s__-- - ~m-~ ~ _- ~ ~.L (~t . Person Interviewed William Harris Age75orBO DeValls Bluff, Ark. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ HI was born in Chetam County close to Nashville, Tennessee. Our 4ster was named. Joe Harris, ills wife was Miss Saille Harris. They had eight children. I knowed Newt Torn and Kittie My mother had nine children. Her naine was Julia My t ~ naine was Isorn Harris. I think they belong to the same family of white folks. Granny was old woman looked after white children. See if any of em got sick. She seen after little nigger children too. Mama was a field hand like papa. After war P .utmner Harris went on off. He Was cruel to his wife and grown folks but good to the children. W0 had good houses and plenty wood but the feed was light. I seen the Yankees riding tlwough the country. They looked pretty, specially them on white horses. My papa and mama left, Mama died with pneumonia. Papa died, too. We had a mighty hard time after freedom and before too. Papa worked about on shares hired out on jobs. When freedom come on we went on and they didn t think to give us nothing. When the hands all left they had the land and nobody to work. ~ They was land pore~ It was tore up. Fences down, houses down, and nothing to be raised to eat in the winter. ~YVhen I got bigger I helped build the North Western Railroad into Nashville. I made right smart of money. I was building up

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2. the track bed. I farmed, worked on the section. 1 delivered here till my feet got in bad. fix. if1 got thirteen children in all. Some in Tennessee by my first wife and some here and some grandchildren. Folks won t work like I used to work. It ain t no use to be !Larmed bout the times ~ they been changing since the world started - still changing. If you able it is be8t to go hunt work and be at a job working. i heard about the Ku Klux, they never troubled us. I seen ein. I was scared of em. HI get connnodities and a check for us three old folk8. My wife washes and irons. I got a bunion on one foot and raw sores on top of my toes. It won t cure up. Both feet in bad shape. . My wife had both her legs broke We doing very well. 184

[Interview with Harrison, William H.] 186 185

30785 . I 5 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson : Person interviewed William H. Rarrison, Forrest Citj~ ~ Age~ ~ ~ ~9 ~ NI was born March 4, 1832 in Richmond, Virginia. M~Bter ~Luderaon Harrison was a cousin to Bsnjamin Harrison, the twenty third President of the United States. Master Anderson Harrison was my owner. I was a persoxia . attendant of his young son and when. I reached manhood I was the carriage boy. ~ I did all the driving on all the trips the young people of the family took. My memories of slave days was my easiest days. Slavery was pleasant for me. My owner s wife was n amed Ami. The son was ~ununel L. Harrison. I went with him to war. I was his servant in the battle-~field till we fougbt at Gettysburg and Manassas Gap. Then I was captured at Bulla Gap and brought to Knoxville, Tennessee and made a soldier. I was in the War three and one half years. They had us going to school. They had Yankee teachera in the army. All the schooling I ever got. I was mustered out at Chattanooga, Tennessee. My parents was J ulia Ann Hodge and Cairo Hodge. I don t know my mother s last o~nera. When I was about eighi years old I was sold to Ben Cowan. When I was thirteen years old I was 8old to Master Anderson Harrison. My brothers Sam and Washington never were sold. Me and S~n Hodge my brother, was in the War together. We struck up and Icnowed one another. A man bought mama that lived at Selma, Alabama. I never seen her ag in to know her. After I was mustered out I went to Birmingham where she was drove and sold in search of her. I heard. she was taken to Selma.

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. . 2.186 I went there. I give out hunting tor her. Et was about dusk. I saw a woman standing in the door. I asked her to tell me where I could. stay. She said, You can stay here tonight. I went in, hung my overcoat up. I started to the saloon. I met her husband with a basket on his arm coming home. I told him who I was. We went to get a drink, I offered him sherry but he took whiskey. I got a pint of brandy, two apples, two orangse, for his wife and two little boys. I spent two nights there and two and a half days there, with my own mother but neither of us knew it then. Fourteen years later Wash wrote to me giving me the address. I told him about this and he said it was mama. He told her about lt. She jumped up and shouted and fell dead. I never aeon her but that one time after I was sold the first time. I was about eight years old then. ~e had eighteen of us boy8 and one girl, Diana, and then the halt..brothers I seen at Selma. I had eleven brothers took oft In a draye at one time and sold. They was older than I was. I don t know what become of them. I never seen Dly papa after I was sold. Diana died in Knoxville Tennessee after freedom. I seen better times in slavery than I ve ever seen since but I don t belie~ in slave traffic- that being sold, I was with my young master t ill my capture That was my part in freedom. I was forced to fi~,ht by the Yankees then in the Union army. I was with General Grant when Lee surrendered at Appomattox. That was freedom. After the War I come to Arkansas and settled at Madison. My hard. ships started. I got married the first thing. ~Thia le how good my owners was to me. He sent me to Hendersonvills, North CaroliM (Henderson ?) to learn to fiddle. I was so afraid of the old colored teacher I learned in a month about all he could play.

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5. 187 I played for parties in eight states in slavery. lU. up in the North. They trained children to .d~anee thn. I took Martb~ lane, Easter Ann, ~ ans Daniel, my young miatreases and their mother s sisters, tmna and Laura, to parties and dances ai . tire. Je went to Ashvllle, North Carolina to a big party. While they was having fine victuals after ths dance they sent me out a plate of turnip greens and turnips, fat meat and corn bread. I took it and set it down. When Miss Martha Jene got in sight I took her to our carriage. She said, Empty it to the dogs, and give me one dollar fifty cents and told me to go to to~ and buy ~y supper. I was treated se~ as kin fOlks. I et ex~d drunk same as they had to use. liter frsed~ I fixed up twice to move back to my young master. Once he sent me three hundred fifty dollars to move on. Betty fell off the porch and broke her thigh. That ended my hopes of going back. Betty was my first wife. I had seven children by her end one by my second wife and this wife ain t had none. Sh8 been married twice though. I got one boy in Virginia seventy-three years old and one boy sixty. eight years old. My boys are scattered. One lives here. I don t hear from them now. After the War I come to Madison. It was a thriving little river town surrounded on all sides by wilderness. There were thousands of Indians camped in the neighboring woods. There was nothing but wooded hills where Forrest City now stands. Ihen Genera). Nathan Bedford Iorr.st built the cut between Forrest City and Madison for the road, E was his cook and the first fireman to make the run through the cut. I used to drive a stagecoach over the Old Military Road through Pine Tree on the stage r~n from Memphis to Little Rook.

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Gerne was the nicest thing the country afforded. I killed bear and other wild game on sites where Marianna, Wynn, and Yone8boro now stand, where this house now is was a lake then. (West part of town on north side of the railroad track.) They caught fish in it then. When I heard Benjamin Harrison had been elected President of the United States, I asked Mr. George Lewis to write to him for me. I was work-. Ing for him then. I handled freight at the depot for him. He was dubious of nie knowing such a person but wrote it to please me. A few weeks a reply come to our letter and a ticket. nI got my fiddle and went and visited two weeks. I et at the same table with the PresIdent. I slept in the White House. We et out of skillets together when I was a little boy ajad drunk out of the aeme cups. ~ and him and. Gummel raised up together. I played for the President and hi$ Cabinet, Twice more I went and it cost me nothing. I played for big balla, My young master sent nie my gold name plate. (It is heart shaped with his name, birth and birthplace ed.) I been wearing it on my watch chain a long tii~. It is my charm. Mr. Lewis was so glad when I ~ot my letter and ticket. He was good to me. I have voted. I voted a Republican ticket because it hope the party out that freed my race. Some white men told me they burnt up. a lot of our votes. I never seen it done. I can t see to fool with voting. The colored folks are saein~ a worse time now than in slavery times. There is two sides to it. The Bible say they get weaker and wiser. I did read before I ~ot blind. I get a Federal pension of one hundred dollars a mox~th. I m thankful for it.~ 4. 188

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5. 189 Interviewer 8 Comment He has trouble talking. One lung Is affected, He is deaf. He is blind. He said he waa wounded eaused his lung trouble. Seema to me old age. He isn t very reoble in the house. Their house was clean and he and his wife, also boni in slavery, looked clean.

[Interview with Hart, Laura] 191 190

:~ ;;~& ~ 19() Interviewer Bernice Bowden Person Interviewed Laura Hart ~!1eventh & Orange St. Age ~ ~ ~~j~nQ ~ Arkansas ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I ju3t can t tell you when I was born cause I don t know. ~y mother said I was born on Christmas Eve morning. l in a old woman. I was big enough to work in slave times. Yes ma ain, I member whet~ the war started. I was born in Arkansas. I m a Arkansas Hoosier. You know I had to have some age on me to work in slave times. I pulled corn, picked cotton and drive the mule at the gin. Just walked behind him all day. I ve pulled fodder, pulled cot-. ton stalks, chopped down corn stalks. I never worked in the house when I was a child while I was under the jurisdiction of the white folks, My old master was Sam Carson and his wife was named Phoebe Carson, boy named Andrew and a daughter named Mary and one named Rosie0 We had plenty to eat and went to church on Sunday. After the white folks had their services we went in. The church was on his place right across the river. That s where I was when freedom taken place. When the war started - I remember that all right -. cause when they was gettin started old master sent a colored man to take his son s place in the war. I was born up here at Fort Smith and brought here to Jetferson County and sold - my mother and three chillun.

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wait ~ I m goin to give you the full history. My father s mother was a white woman from the North and my father was a colored mane Her folks run her here to Arkansas and she stayed with her brother till i~iy father was nine months old and then she went back North and my papa stayed with his uncle. When his uncle died he willed my papa his place. He had it recorded at the cotehouse in Little Rock that my papa was a free man. But he couldn t stay in Arkansas free, so he just ramm bled till he found old man Carson andmy ~iother. He offered to buy my mother but old master wouldn t sell her so he stayed with old man Carson till they was all free. IvI.~. white folks was tollable fair ~ they didntt beat up the people. - My mother was as bright as you are. She could sit on her hair. Her mother was a Creole and her father was a Frenchman. J~fter freedom they wOuld a killed my father if it hadn t been for old Sam Carson, cause they thought my mother was a white woman, she was so bright, ??KU Klux ? The Lord have mercy Z I remember them. They came and surrounded the house, hundreds of em, We had a loose plank in the floor and we d hide under the floor with the dogs and stay there, too, till they d gone. Liy father was a gambler. He gambled and farmed. My mother was a Christian woman. When I got big enough to know anything, she was a Christian woman. nI married when I was fourteen. We lived at a place called ~Vildcat. Didn t have no school. Nothin up there but saloons and gambling. 2. :19:1

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Then we moved to what they called the Earl ~Vright place. I had four chillun - three boys and one girl. Most of my work wa~ in the field. I been here in Pine Bluff gwine on seventy-one ~rears. You know - I knowed this town when they wasn t but one store and two houses. I m a old woman - I ain t no baby. Honey, I even remember when the Indians was run out o this townZ Well, I done telled you all I know. In my comm1 up, the colored people didn t have time to study bout the chillun s age8. 3. 192

[Interview with Haskell, Hetty] 194 193

4~. . ~ ~ Interviewer Mrs i~rnice Bowden Person interviewed Hetty Haskell 1416 1. Ptillen, Pine Bluff, Arkansai A~e ~ Yes xn, I reckon I was about twelve when the Civil War eriaed. Oh) I could nurse a llttleq No rna ani, I wasn t born in Arkansas, I was born in Tennessee, but I was brought here when I was a baby. Come here before the war. The old master had sold ?em, ~e was bought by Will Nichols.. You ever hear of this here Dick Lake? Well, that s the p1aoe~ ~ They taken ray rather ~.nd my sister to Texas and stayed till after freedom0 My mother was sick and they didn t carry her and I was too little, so they left me~ They was pretty good to us as Th.r as I know, I reraomber when. the Yankees corne through. Oh, yes in, I was scared, I u~sed to hide under the bed. I uld.n. t give eni a chance to talk t o me. Otir folks stayed on the Nichols place about two years. Then they i~armed 0x1 the shares till he got able to buy hua a nuls, then he rented, After the war the cholera disease come along. My mother and sister died with it0 Somebody said if you would hang up some beer outdoors between the road and the house, it would stop the disease, I know old master hung up about a hait a quarter and it seemed to work, The neat would turn green, The Yankees took things to eat but the Rebels would take the women s clothes-. and the men s too. I guess they just took em cause they could, #?15 193

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Biggest work I ye done i s farm work. My daddy said I was sixteen when I married~ I had thirteen children but they ain t all livin . I remember when they said they was free, Some o~ the folks left the place and. never coire back and some of em stayed0 Sometimes I had a pretty good time and sorneti~es pretty tough. I m gettin along all right now. I stay here with my son part of the time and then I ~o to the country and stay with my daughter~ 2~ :194

[Interview with Hatchett, Matilda] 196 195

Interviewer Sazaue1~.Taj1or Person interviewed Matilda Hatcbett 424 W~ Twenty$ifth Street, North Little Bock, Arkan8as A~e~~ Between 98 and 100 - ~ ~ ~ ~ I was born right here in Arkansas about nin& niile8 fran J~rdane11es (Dardanolle) In Sevier County. I think it s ~evier. No, it was Yell County. Yell County, that s it. You. put the 1~rdanelles there and it they t~et that they ll get the Yell part. Can t miss Yell if you get L~rdanelles0 I wish I could get holt of some ot my old white folks, Maybe you can find em for n~ s one big policeman here looks like them but I don t know whether he is or not, The first white owners that I knowed was Yackie George in South Carolina, That is where I heard thera talkin about him corain from0 I wasn t born there; I was born here~ I wasn t born when he eorae from South Carolina. His wife was named Nealle. He was just like a ole shoe, Never whipped rae but one time in my life~ I ll tell you about it. This is what they whipped me for0 Me and my brother, Saia, had to water the horses. I didn t have to go with Sam, but I was big enough to do that. We had one oie horse named .Tohn~big oie horse. I would have to git up on a ten..rail fence to ~it on him. Oiie day I was leading oie John back and I ~ot tired of walking. So when I come to a ten~rail fexice, I got up on oie ~TOhfl0 I got up on im backwards and I didn t have hold of no bridle nor nothin because I was lookin at his tail. The others got back there before they did0 01e riiaster said to them, \ ihere s Tulle? They said to him, She s comm 3 leadin oie Yohn. # 786

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*Atter a while they saw me commt an one of em said, There a Tillie now. wAnt nother one, Man, she s on the horse bakwrd And oie Yohn wa~ aniblin along nippin the grass now an then with h18 bridle draggin and rite aittin up on his back facin his tail and slippin and slidin with every step0 01e John was gentle. That they were scairt he would throw n~ off, 01e misais come out the gate and met him hersait, cause she was fraid the others wou.ld~3ite hin and make him throw nie down. She gentled him and led hirn up to oie master. They was careful and gentle till they got me off that horse, and then oie master turned and lit into rae and give me a brushin . s the only whippin he ever give me Bit that didn t do n~ no good. Leastwlae, it didn t stop t~ from ridin horses. I rode oie John ever chance I could git, ~t I didn t ride him backwards no more0 Dresses We uaed to wear home spun dre ase s I have spun a many a yard and wove it, Did you ever see a loom? I used to have a wheel, and my children tore it up some way or tnother. I still have the cards. We done our own knittin and spun our own thread and knitted our socks and stockings, Houses The white Thlks lived in pretty good houses and we did too They lived in big log houses. The white folks houses had piazzas be tween the rooms That Haney dn t build them houses Hi 8 daddy, Tim Haney, built em. The lianeys corne in by Tim bein s father. 2. :196

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Thad ma3?rled J~ackie George 8 daughter-~Loui8a Georges George wa~ her daddy and Haney was her husband. There were four rooms beslde8 the piazza. On one side, there was a big room built out of lumber. On the other side, there was a bi~ room that a doctor lived 1ii~ There was a great big kitchen west of the piazza. The kitchen was about fifteen by fifteen. I know it was that large because we d all eat at the saine time. The old raan, Tim, owned about thirty niggere, After he died they were all divided out among the boys0 Every boy took his part of the land and his part of the niggers, ~.it I wasn t at hia house then0 I was livin with oie Jackie George, T1~e white folk8 hadn t moved together then. But I went to oie Tim Haney s funeral. The old white woman fainted and they rubbed her with camphor and stuff and had her layin out there. I wasn t old enough to cry over him and wouldn t anyhow because I didn t care nothin much about him0 ~t I would have cried for my oie master though, because I really loved him. ~3oldiere RI saw the soidlera when they come through our place. The firet start of us noticin them was this. I was always up to the white folk8 house. Thad was in back to the Bebel army. 01e master toie my dad to ~o git im a hat He d ~ot im one and was ridin back with a hat on on top of his n, Before he could git back, here come a man jus a ridin . Thad was eat in . He look out and then he throwed his head back and 8aid, Them s the Federals. Thad finished his breakfast and then he ran on out and got with the Federals, He didn t join em.. He jus fooled em. y ~411~ Oa i:~i

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4. 198 The br1d~e was half a rafle from our house and the Yankee army hadn t near finished crossing it when the head of it reached ua~ Thile they were at the house pa came ridin up with the two hats on his head, They took the hats and throwed pa s on the ground and tried Thad 8 Ofl. They took the mare but they give it back, Them Thlks stood round there all day, Killed hogs and cooked them. Killed cows and cooked them, Took all kinds or sti~ar and preserves and things lik that. Tore all the feathers out of the mattress looking for money0 Then they put oie miss (Nealie Haney) and her daughter (Loul8a Haney) in the kitchen to cookin . Ma ~ot scairt and went to bed. Dreckly the ~1ieutenant come on down there and said Auntie get up from re0 Tie am t a goin to do you no hurt0 We re after helpin you.. We are freein you. Aunt Dinah, you can do as you please now. You re free0 She was frees They stayed t rouiid there all nicht cooking and eatin and carryin on. They sent son~e of the meat in there to u.s colored folks. Next ~ornin they ail dropped off soin down to take Dardanelles. You could hear the cannons roarin next day. They was all night gettin away. They went on and took Dardanelies, Had all them white folks ru.nnin and hidin 0 The Secesh wouldn t ~o far. They would just hide. One ni~it there d be a gans of Sece~h, and the next one, there d come along a ~ of Yankeos. Pa was fraid or both of em. Secesh said they d kill im if he left his white folks. Yankees said they d kill lin it he didn t leave em. He would hide out in the cotton patch and keep we children out there with him. Oie mis made him carry us.

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We was freed and went to a place that was full of people. We had to 8tay in a church with about twenty other people arid two of the babies died there on account of the exposure, Two ofb ~y aunts died, too, on account of exposure then. The soldiers didn t take anything that night but food. They left all the horses. What they took was what they could eat. But they couldn t catch the turkeys. The lieutenant stayed around all the tixr~e to make the soldiers behave themselves~ The meals he made my oie mis and her daughter cook was for the officers. Ye8 Lawd& I have been here so long I ain t forgot nothin I can rerr~rnber things way back. I can remember things happening when I was four years old. Things that happen now I can t remember so welle ~it I 08fl remember thing8 that happened way back yonder. &chooling NI learnt to read a little after peace was declared. A oie lady, Aunt Sarah Nunly, learnt us how to spell and then after that we went to school, I went to school three weeks. I never went to school niuch. Didn t git no chance to learn nothin in slavery, Sometin~s the, children would teach the darkies round the house their A C s. I ve heard of folks teachin their slaves to read the Bible, They didn t teach us to read nothin . I ve heard of it, but I ve never seen it, that sor~ folks would cut off the first finger of a nigger that could write, Father s Children Freed Before Emancipation My father had son~ children that were set free. They lived down on the river bottom. Their oie master was named oie Crow. He died and sot his niggars free. He had four slaves, He had five. If any of you know 5. 199

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6. Philo Pointer, his father was one of ems They sot him free, ills daughterCrow s dattghter wanted the niggers and they would break the oie man 8 wIll. They ft~rniahed them a wagon and sot them free, They came by my father s place and he killed his hog and fed them and they put the rest of it in the wagon and went on to the free state. I ve got au old piece of a dish them boys give my mama. It s done broke up to a piece now, but I saves that~ RPatay Crow was the nana of the girl that was freed, end one of the boys was named Joe Crow, and the others I don t know what It was, I ~esa it was Thn. Their old master had left a will givln them the wagon and team because he knew it wouldn t be possible for them to stay there after he died. He said he didn t want his niggers to be under anybody after he died, Wills was wills in them days. His daughter wanted them niggers1bttt they didn t give them to her. They sot them free and sont them off, Wants to ~3se Her i~op1e I nursed three children for Thad Haney and Louisa, his wite. Them girls nai~s was: the oldest was Yulia; the next one was ns~ed Xnna and the youngest one was nan~d Virginia. If I can find them and see them again, t il be so happy. I want to meet them one more t irz~.-.some of them~ all of them if they re livin ; but I know they can t ail be living. Matilda Haney was my name then, and I nursed Thad a children in slavery tii , Age I think I m between ninety-~aeven and ninety. eight years old. They had au old~age contest in Reverend ~nith a ti~. They had Reverend Coffee and another man here since Reverend &ilth. The pastor we have now is Yates. Oui church is Lee Chapel A. M. K. Church. The contest was in 1935 I think

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7. 201 and the people ai . agreed that I was the oldest colored wci~an in North Little Rook. They said. I was ninety~.~ a1x years old then. That would make ne about ninetyelght years old now. ~t I saw my children afterwards and they 8aid I was a year older0 I used to have my age in the ~m1ly Bible and my husband e too, but it got burnt up. Accordin to them I oughli a be about nlnety nine or a hundred, ~ Occupation My folks didn t rai se no e otton. They raised about two bale e a year. Didn t have nobody to rai8e it. Thirty 8laves were not enough for that, And they didn t care nothin about it nohow, They had forty.six acres of land in wheat and iota in corn and potatoes. They raised cows, hogs, horses, turkeys, chickens, and everything else. Even had peafowle. Th ~oe se used to run me round many a day0 They ran a cotton gin and my father managed it. That was h18 job aU. the time before the War, After the War, my father famed. He worked on shares0 They never cheated him that he knew about If they did he didn t know it He owned hie horses and cows,~

[Interview with Hawkins, John G.] 203 202

#65 ? Iliterviewer Misa IreneRobertaon Person interviewed ~obn G. Hawk na~ Blacoe, Arkansas Age ~ ? 1~~_ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ .~ -- ~ ~ .~ ~ I was born in Monroe County, Mississippi December 9, 1866. My parents was :frano.s Haikena. She was a liait white woman. I was told my daddy was a white i~an, Mr. Young. Mother was a cook and house wo~n. Grandmother was a field won~n. She was dark ~xt had so~ Indian blood In her. I be1ie~e they said it was part lhoetaw Indian. I don t remember a grandfather. T4wnar County, Llabaina was across the line from Monroe County, Mtae. issippi. One of the Hawkens girls (white girl) married a man in Mississippi. The master had three boys and one or two girls. Grandmother was sold. to the Hawkena and mother was born there in Alabama. There was another wo~nan they oined called Mandy. They was all the slaves they owned that I l owd of. ~When the War come on, the old man Hawkens was dead. His widow had three Sons but one was married and off from her hone someihere All three boys went to war. Her married son died in the War. . One son went to war bit he didn t want to go. He ask his mother if she rather free the Negroes or go to war. She said, Go tight till you. die, it won t be nothing ~xi~t a breakfast spell . He went buSt come back on a furlough. ~ He spent the rest of the tiu~ in a cave be dug down back of the field. He d slip out and come to the house a little while at night. It was in the back woods and not very near anybody else. Aunt Mandy, another old ian, grandmother and ioy mother lived in a house in the yard. ~I wo of us was born in slavery. My sister Mandy was fifteen years old when slavery ended.

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2. 203 The way we first heard about freedom, one of the boys cci~ honie to stay b~it no one knew that when he oa~. Ha told. alater Mandy cook hint a good supper and he would tefl her a ~thing good. She cooked him a good supper and eet the table. lie ~et to eat and she ask him what it was. Be told her, All the slaves are free From that on it was talked. We left there. My mother and sister Mandy told ~ I wasn t born. We went to Mississippi then. I was born over there. Some sharecropped and so~ worked as renters. ~Sister Mendy told so many times about carrying fire in a coffeepot . had a lid and hendle-.to the son in the cave Sh d go across there a meadow like and a field, calling the sheep for a blind so if the cavalry spied her they would think she had a little teed for the sheep. The cavalry was close about It was cold and the young master would nearly freeze in his cave. ~ SMother said they was good to them. They never touched them to beat them but they all went from early till late. They all worked and the old mistress too. 9 wo of mother s children was slave born. Sister Mandy is dead ~.tt my brother George Hawkena is on 1114 Appenway, Little Rock. He can tell y~ xaore than I know. Two of us was born after slavery. We all had the se~ father--Mr. Young. He lived about two miles from Rawkens and had a white wife and family. I carried water to the field where he worked and talked a little with him. I saw him when he was sick. He had consumption. I heard when he died and was burled. He never did one thing tor U8 children. Mr. Young and the Baikens was partners sc~ way in the ~armin~. Mr. Young died young.

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3. 204 ~Ihen her SOfl told my sister MaMy at supper table, All the slaves are free now old mistress jumped up and said, It a not recorded! It a not t Mr. bit was a man, old, old men on a big plantation. He had one hundred 81aves. He didn t know his slaves when he ~t one of them. He had overseers. He talked with his slaves ehen he met one about and they would tell him, re my ma They said during the War the old man had cotton seed boiled down for his slaves to eat. The War was about to starve them all out. Oil mills were unheard of at that time, ~The War brou~it freedom and starvation both to the slaves. I heard old people say they died in piles from exposure and hunger. There was no let ~up to their work after freedom. All my family came from Missi8sippi to Forrest City, Arkansas together. I married the first time there. My wife died. Then I married at Brinkley, Arkansas. le have one boy living in lee County. He a my only child. Interviewer s C~oninent J,. G. Hawkena is the whitest Negro I have ever seen. He has blue eyes and straight hair. He was fishing two days I went to see him.

[Interview with Hawkins, Lizzie] 206 205

#656 205 Interviewer____-u-- Person interviewed Age 65 -u. i~~ ~ ~:Er~e3~ ~b~r~tao~iL Lizzie Eawk~na. Biacoe. Arkansas . ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ s. ~s RI was born clOse to Magnolia, Arkansas. My mother was Harriett Marshal. Her old mistress was a Marshal. was a widow woman and had 1~t all her slaves go out to her children ~it ____ Mama was her husband s chile what she tole i~ina. They co~ here from Atlanta, Georgia visiting her married daughter. They was the J oinera at Magnolia, Arkansas. She brought meine and on her ~ way back home to Atlanta she died. Her daughter brought her back and buried her in Arkansas end kept mama. Maj ~a said they was nice to her. They wouldn t let her keep company with no black folks. She was about as white as white folks. She was white a my husband0 Her mother was li~it or half white My own papa was a black man. The Joiners and Scotta visited down at Magnolia among themselves ~it they didn t want m~a to marry in the Scott family (of Negroes). ~xt the white folks was mighty good friends. Mama took care of the children. They was iii the orchard one dey. Papa spied mama. He picked up a plum and threw at her, ~ie say, There that co~ cm Re stooped down and seen her under the limbe. They was uiider another plum tree. Papa got to talk to her that day. The old mistress wouldn t l.t her out of sight. Papa never could have got her if Mistress Marshal had lived. Mama had three or four sisters and brothers in. Atlanta, and her mother was in Atlanta. Her parents were Bob and I~icindy Marshal. She men%R.

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2. 206 Bob W~8 Zacindy s master. hams told old miatrea8 to bring Harriett beck and she promised she would. That waa one thing u~de her watch after her 80 close. She never had been made a slave. She was to look after old mieti eae. Atter she died mama s young mistress let papa have her. He nustered up courage to ax for her and she said, Yea L (tor LLbert) you can hav t That was ai . the marrying they ever done. Thy never jumped over no broom she said. They waa living together when she died. ~it in slavery tiiflea inaia~ lived on at J udge ~ oiner s and papa at Scott s place. One taa~ ily lived six miles east or Magi~olia and the other six miles north of Magnolia. Papa went to see mena twelve miles. They out through 80flIetiD~8. It was dense woods. M~ma had one boy before freedom. In all she had three boys and four girls. ~The Scott and Joiner White folks told the slaves about freedosi. Papa homesteaded a place one mile ot the courthouse square. The old home is standing there now0 ~Papa said during the Civil War he hauled corn in an. ox wagon. The cavalry inst him more than once and took every ear and grain he had. He d have to turn end go back. e~0 said when freedom co~ some of the people toi. the slavew, You have to root pig or die poor. ~My great-grandpa was sold in South Carolina. He said he rather die than be sold. He went up in the mountains and tound a den of rattlesnakes to bite him. They was under a stone. $aid when he seen them he said, Uhherl You can t bite ins. They coninenced to rattle like dry ~*itter~. beans. He went on and dressed to be sold. Master Scott bought him and brought him on to Arkansas. He had to leave his wife. He never got back to see her.

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3. 207 Grandpa had to om laro his wits. He married ag in and had five Sons and a girl. They was Glaaco, Alex, KiUjard, ~1b.rt~ Bill, and Katherin . They bs1on~ to $pencera ijU the Scott. bought thee ~it all theae c~iildren was his Scott children. My uncle s wife belong to ~IitS folka not Sootta. Seotta woulWt .~ J sell and her folka wouldn t part from her. They moved down in Louisiana a~d took her and. one chile. Uncle run away to see he~ The Scott. pit the hound8 after hi1a and run Ma two daya and two nighte. He was so tired he stopped to rest. The doge cc~~ ~ip around him. Es took a pine knot and killed the lead dog, hit him in the had and put hi~ in a rotten knot hole of a hollow tree been t*arned out and just flew. The dogs acattered and h. heard the horiw. lie heard the doga how . and the hoofs of the men e horees. The old master was dead. He didia t allow the boys to ala~ in ~ng hi. niggera. After he died they was boaay. Uncle said he de hie visit and come back. He dIdII t ever tell them he killed the lead dog nor how aloes they coi~ up on him. Re said they ~a glad to see him *sn he aces back. Eis wit. waa na~d Gsor~ana. Atter freedom grandpa n~ed M~es1t Spencer Scott. He baried his money. He made a truck ~ard.n and had patch.e in alav.ry both in South Carolina and at Magaolia. He told i~ he had r~iaty douera nover been turned over since ~ they niade hia cois hers. He left a~ ~nsy buried back there. We found hie money on hie place at 3k~nolia ihen he died. R~ toi. us where it Wa.. One ni~xt he wae going acroas a bridge sad taking s. sack of ~lona to Magnolia to esil in slavery time. A bear i~t hia. H. juaped at th bear and said b The bear growled and run on it. way. Es said he was eo scared he was etitf. ?ney let them work aces patch.. at ni~tt

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4. 208 end sell so things to make a litti. i~y. The ole aester give th~ e~ money if thsy wsnt to the city, That was about twice a yar papa said. He never seen a city till years after frsedc . His pa and ~andpa got to ~ go every now and then. Magnolia was no ity in thsei days. lt Is hard to raise childr.n in this day and ti~. iIh.a I isn t on the Betzuer place (near Biaooe, Jz kansas) my son was eight ysara old. He groved up along side Brooks (Betzn.r) I ~irt nigh talked ~y tongue out ot my head and Brooks (white boy) mother did the saie thing. ~ avery year ihen v would lay by, ~ end ~y husband (whit. Negro) would. go. on a camp. kooks would ask me if he could go. lis took the two of th.~w. (The Haikena boy is said to be a dark mulatto--ed.) Es s a ~me~ t boar, a sood fa~r. doun in lee County now. He tarried when he was nineteen years old. . It is herd to raies a boy now. There is boxing aM pris. fighting and pool hell. and ~t~at~ ~.tt ~ Times are not improving as. I can as in that ~y. . tores than I ~ have ever seen thea.~

[Interview with Hawkins, Becky] 210 209

~)~ 1( f~s~ 7 Interviewer Per80IL interviewed Age_~_ ~L ~!~U - Yes m, I was born in slave times but my mammy was a~ick1in n~. Don t know much bout 8lavery but just come up tree. My manm~y a old master was Calvin Goodloe in Alabama, PulaBki County, near Tiiscumbia. I heered my uncle say old maBter favored ha nig~rs. Mazrzny told me bout em gettin whippin ., but ehe never let th overseer whip her ~ she d go to old master. My grendraama e hair was straight but she was black. She waa mixed Indian. My maiwriy s father was Indian end she say he fought in the Revolution. She had his pistol and rooks. When he died he was the oldest man around there, I tell you what I remember. I member my mwmiiy had a son named ~noch and he missed me in slave days when mammy was workin in the field. They didn t low em to ~o to the house but thr e times a day ~- that was the women what had babies. ~it I was so sickly mammy had ~noch bring me to the fence so she could suckle me. I went to school down here in Arkansas in Lincoln County. I got 50 1 could read in McOuffy s Fourth Reader. I member that story bout the white man chunkin the boy down out of the apple tree. That was a government school on the railroad ~ notch house. ~Tust had one door and one window. They took the nigger cabins and made a schoolhouse. - Mrs. Bernice Bowden ~ -. - - ~ Kaikins ~ ~ ~ - - ~ L ~ _ 71? Louisiana Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas

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After freet1c~n my inattiny stayed on old master s place he didn t drive em away. My m&imy spinned the r&w cotton and took it to Thacuinbia and got it wove. Some of it she dyed. I know when I waa a gal I wore a checked dress with a white apron. And my first ~mday dress was atriped cotton. After she woi ked enough she bought me a red worated dress and trix~ned it and a sailor hat. We went to church and they led tue by the hand. After chu.rch I had to take off my dress and hang it up till next Sunday. Had a apron made of cross barred muslin. Don t see any cl that now. It wa8 made with a bodice and had. nifties round the neck. Wore brass toed shoea and balmoral stockin s in my gal time. Then my huaband was courtin me, my dress was down to my shoe top. lie ne~er saw my leg! My fuet work was nuasin . I went to Hot Springs with the white folks. I nuseed babies till I got against nuasin bablea. I stayed right in the house and alep on a sofa with a baby in my arma. In my time they lowed you oft halt a day on Sunday. Chile I washed and ironed and washed and ironed and washed and ironed till I married. I married when I was seventeen0 My mother was dead and I d rather been married than ru.nnin loose I might a stepped on a snake. My daddy was a ex~..~aoldier, I don t know what side h~ tought on but my mammy got bounty when he died. That s what she bought that land with down here In Lincoln County from her old master Goodies. I tell you ~ I tii a old christian and I think this younger genera~ tion la growin up like Christ said they Is gettin weaker and wiser. WILY mother a sister, Patience Goodloe, lived in Pulaski County, Alabama and I went back there after I was married and 8tayed two months. 2. 2fl)

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.:~ 211 I ~ Up and dola th. flildi wh rs i~ d~iddy S$ ~s~y iork d4 X w,nt out to the ~$TSYSrd *ere m~ Ijitie brotli r ~ bui,isj but they~ hd cottofl and corn planted on ths Old .1.Y.ti~ grav.ysrd, *1 11k. that oountry lote bitter than this hsrs Arksnass. Don t hate no springs or nothin h.r..~

[Interview with Hawkins, G. W.] 213 212

. 3()625 ~-#?55 212 Int.ryi.Isrr ~ O ~. ~ ~ S. T~lor ~ ~ . -______~ .~ ~ __~__ . ~- ~- ~p-.1__,.__p-! .___I-. ~ ~ P.rsonintervieied ~ . ~. .G.I .Ja*i~ ~. ~ ~ A s~~J~~3 ~ . ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ex was born in Lamar County, Vernon, *labses, January 1, 1865. I was a slave only tour months. My father was Art.r Rawkins and ~ mother was nsd franc.s. My grandmother on my aothsx a std. was MalTins. X fo~t tha na~ of ~ gr.at. grandinoth.x , but I bslisvs it was Ilizabsth. ~ ~a was One hundred nin yesr~ old and I was tirlv years old th.n. Her sind was just like a litt .. 8~SX1 OW floating iii ths air. That was my grsats.grandmoth.r on my aoth.r a aida. My grandfathsr on ~y father s aids was named Also Young. My mother s father was named Iliza Iright. ~ My mother s peopis wsrs ths Kaikins, and my father s vera the Tanc.ys. ~My fathsr and mother war. tsrr., and ran ~isksy still.. wasn t any rsYsmis on whiaksy tham. The first revenus ersr paid on wni.,ksy ~ ~ ?~ ~ was ten c.ntii ~ ~ I rss~.bsr that so U was that a tsflow namod sohn Haiaaxi ran a still after the revsnuo was ~ on the stuff0 Iinally th.y caught him. They fined him. $3fy folks fax~.d right sft.r trs.dcm and tbay f.rd in alawsry ti. They didn t raiss no cotton. Th.y raised corn end ibsat end wish a. that in Llabsua. Alabawa is good for cotton, corn, wheat tobacco, or anything y~ want to pow. It la ths gx.at.at fruit country in ths world. Right sftsi frdo~, my folks continued to faut till thy all played

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2. 213 I came out here after I got groin. I just took a notion to go somewhere else, I have beexi in Arkansas torty~ .eight years. I firat lived ixi Yorreat City. Stayed there six years and did carpenter work. I have been a carpenter aU. my life ever since I was about sixteen years old~ I went to Barton, Arkansas and atayed there two years and then eame here~ I have supported myself by carpenter work ever since I came here. I helped build the Prieco Road from Potts Camp to the Alabama River. That ia the other side of J efferson County in Alabama. I haven t asked for the old tolka penaion. ..can t get no one to believe that I am old enough for one thing. Can t get it nohow. It ie for deati ttite people. I can t ~t under the security because they aay I am too old tor that, I m too much of a worker to get old age asalatance and too old to be allowed to put up tax to beeo~ eligible tor old age pension, I never went to Bchool. I just got an old blue back speller and taught iiiyselt how to read and write with what I picked up here and ther from people I watched. That a one way a man never fails to learn watohing p1. That e the only way our forefathers bad to learn. I learned arithmetic the aan~ way. I never considered I was naich at figuring but I took a contract from a man who had all kinds of education and that man said I could do arithmetic better than he could. RI belong to the A. M. E. Qiurch, I have been a member or it for fortyeM~one years, I have three boys living and one stepdaughter. ~t ahi feels like ah. is my own. I don t make any difference I never have whipped ~ children. I had one child-.~a girl~that died when she was eight months old. I taught aU. my boys the carpenter trade and they aU. work and stay right here at home with.i.

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Living Conditions during and b~diat.1y aftr Slav.ry 0Th.re are two quartere that I u~d to visit with my grendmoth~r ~ when I was a little boy. The boss s ho~s was ballt so tMt hs c*ild stand on the porch of his house arid see anything on the place even in the slave quartera. The houaea were all built out or 1o~. The roof was put on with what they called rib poles. They built the cable and cut each bean shorter then the other. Th.y laid the board. across them and ~it a big log on top or thea to weight them dom, ao that the wind couldn t blow the plank. off. Th.y~ ~rs ho~ftade planke, They didn t hav no nails. They had nothing but dirt floors. wWh.r. th. i~n folk. vers thrifty ehen they wanted to~ they would go out at night and eplit the logs into slabs and then level them aa ich a they could and use thos tor floors. AU th, colored folks ~rs split log floora it there were any floors at oil. Thor. waa n.o lumber then. Th planks were made With ihipaawa and. watsr~iiilla. I waa a grown man before I ever aa~ a atesia ~t1fl. The quarters that I saw wars those that ware ~MLUt in slate If creaks iers too big, they ~uld ~it a $1. In the crack and till up the rest or it ~1th d~that le ~at they called chink end dob. The doors were hung on wooden hinges. They would bore a hole through th. hing. and through the door and put a wooden pin In lt In place of acrus. There wasn t a nail or a screw In the whole house when lt was rlnlsh.d. . Th.y did mortise and tenon jointe ail frame houses. Ihere w uss nails nove it they had to, they wou 4 bore a hoL. and drive in a pin ~ wooden pin. . 1~rniturs 0m. colored Thlks would ~it a post out from the corner and bore a hole and pit the other end in it. They wouldn t have any slats ~t would just lay s. 214

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4.~ . 215 board. across the aide end put Iheat or oat stral on the boa~ da. The w~n made all the quilt.. IbM I man, they carded the rolls, s~*in the thread ~ spun it on en old hand~4urned uheel~~snd then they would esel it off of the broach onto the reel and wake henka out of it. Then they would ~in it off on what they called quills. Then it would go round a big pin and cc~ out with the threads ooparat.d. Then they would run through aow.ething lik a comb and that would aake the loth. It was the rule in slave ti~ to card one hundrsd rolls. So~tiaea they would be up till after twelve o clock at Right. They carded that in o . night and spin it the next night. Start with old cott n just like it co~ from the L gin. Card it one night and spin it the next. Thne woo~ and cotton the .~ way. One hundred rolls carded gave enough threads to make a yard of cloth. R n them daya they tasked everybody to the limit0 Stovss / Por stoves they used an iron pot on a big fir.. In the kitchen, they had a fireplace built ten foot wide. They had thing. they call.d pot raske hung down from the chianey, and they would hang pot. on the. They ~it the pots on those hooks and not on the logs. Ih.n they baked bread they would use iron skillets North CarOlina psopi. called them spider.. They gould put an iron lid on them end put fire ovsr the top and underneath the skillet and bake good bread. I ~an that ol&4iae bread was good bread. Thy baked the light brad ths same ~ay. They bakod biscuits one a ie.k. Sunday aorninga wa~ about the only tin. you ever got thew. Iood in General (Slays.) In alav.ry t1~sa they had all kinde or t--~ors than they havi now~~ vegetable. and truite too. They raised thsc~ tha~slvs~. Thr wasn t no food

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5. 216 ia3~LSd. Didii t na.d to b. Ons cook oooksd it al in one kitch.n end they all sat around the earns big old long table Long as a houas. AU th. hendi. ate at the same table end j~ the se~ rocs and at the 8a~ t1. 9~e way they fed the children, they took pot u1ia~uor or bean soup or turnip liiuor or the juice from anything thsy boiled and poured it out in a great big wooden bow . and let all the children get round it like ao i~ny ~ ) ~ cats and they vould juet ip their hands in it and eat ithat they wanted,, Of course they had a . the milk they wanted because evrybody raised cove. I didn t have to undergo this ayasif, but this was what they ha~ to underg at the places where my grandmother took me to visit. Cloth s *1 colored boy had to be mors then tie .Ys year. old before be wore a pair of pants. U. wore nothing I~~t a long shirt that so~ down to his knees. The hands in slave time vors homad shirts. All clothes wsrs hon~made~~panta and coats and dresses and stockings and everything. The shoes were made out of harnaaa leather. Tenned and made right by hand at hone. I have seen tanning vat8 and yards two blocks square. Patroll.rs ~You had to ~t a pass from owners to go out at night. If you had a ~a58 and the pateroles found you, it was all right it you, hadxi t overstayed the t1 that was iritten on it. If you. didn t have a pass or if you had overstayed your tim, it was stil , all right if you. could outrun the pat.a~ roles. That held before freedom and it held a long tii~ after freedom. The pat.roles were still op.rating when I ias old enough to rember those old quartra. They didn t break them up for a long t1. I rsaes~b.r them ayeelf. I don t i~an the lu flux. Th lu Klux was a ditf .rent thing altogsthir.

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~. 6. The Ku KLUX didn t exist before tue tar. I don t know ihere they got the name fro~ I don t know whether they give it to themselves or the people give it to thee. But the Ku Klux cane after the War and weren t b.fore lt. Kti Klux Influence on Negroe a .me Kit Klux Klan waren t jnst after )Isgroee. They got after White folks and Negroee both. I dldn t think they were so auch after keeping the Negro tram voting as ac~ other thlng~. wThel.e Va. one colored fellov In Alabeaa I think hie ne waa Zgbert Bondrnan.~that waan t influenced. Es waa a politIcian end they got after hia one tii~. Ha lived about SIX miles south of Vernon in L~v,r County, Alaben~. He went down to the hole where they watered their horses and atretc~ied an old cable wire across the road just high enough to trip up their horaea. He hid in the woods and cut down on them with his shotgun when they c~ up. I hear there was one more scramble when those horSes commenced stumbling, and those men started rwming through the forest to get away from~ that shot. nI :L sI~tbsr one night my mothei woki ~ up, and I lookd out and thers a lot of the Ku flux riding dom the road. They had on long white robsa looked like a flock ot geese in th dark The main thing the Ku Klux seemed to try to do, it seemed to ~ was to try to keep the colored folks obedient to their tori~r maatera and to keep the white folks trom giving them too .toh Influenos. And they wanted to atop the white men that ran after colored wo~n. BLIt they didn t last long. They whipped a fellow usaid Huggina in the early seventies, and hs was a government man. After that governi~ent n camped on their trail, and they didn t ~unt to ich.

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7. 218 ~ Slav* Rr~sd1ng ~Th. . thing they era fighting begin in atavery. There wsrs slave n kept that foi ced slave women to do ihat they ianted to do. And if thi alave wox~n didn t do lt ~ ths mastere or the overseers whIpped thm till tbay did. The women were beat and made to go to them. They wrs big tine sen, and the masters wanted the women to have children by them. And thers were ac~ white men, too, who forced the slave woiaen to do what th.y wanted to. 8c of thm didn t want to atop when slavery atopped. SlaTs T~Bk8 and Hcure of Work *Ive told you the elavsa were tasked to th liait. The hour. of the slave hende~i~aa.if it ~ awsier ti~h. muet bs In the field ihen the ~n roa. And he muet co~ ho and eat hie dinner and get beak in the tisld arid stay till the sun went dom. In the winter tii~ he iet be out theze by the tli~ it was light enough to see the work an~ stay out till it waa just too dark to se the work with just enough ti~ out to. stop end sat his dlnnsr. This was just after slavery that I remember. ~t ths hours rs the ss~ then, The avsra~ on cotton picking ~as two hundrd pounds a day. Pulling fodder was a hundred bundles. Gathering corn and auch as that all they could do. lags. just after ?reedc~ Tbe avers~ wags that a rn got for t~nty~six days work-.4~nty..siz days were counted a working z~nth was eight dollars and board for the month. That was the average wags tor work like that. That Is the way they vorked than.

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8. 219 Th18 M~tt X of Slave O1othsi Again . *Cloth,.!II Th.y didn t know nothing bout underciothei. They didn t wear them juat after the War, and I know th.~ didn t before the War~not in my part of Alabama. That e the reaaon why they say the Negro is cold ~tU1 Od. He didn t have anything on. I have seen many a boy picking and hopping cotton on a cold autumn day with nothing on but hia shirt. In hi. bare feet too. He got one pairot shoes a year and h. didn t get no more. When he wore them out, he didn t have any till the next year. When I was a boy I have aeon many a young lady walk to church with her shoes flung over her ahouldere and wait till ehe got nearly there before aba would put them on. She didu t want to wear them out too soon. I dldn t have to undargo this myself. Co c) / ~ ~Wh.n I wee ten year. old, my job wai to drive aAteem tw.nty..six ailes, and it took ~ two days to go and two days to corn. and one day to load end unload-~five days. The team was loaded with cotton going and anything coming back. We used to get salt from some piace near New Orl.sn.. le would drive ox teams dom there, put in an order, wait till they dipped. the water out of the lake boiled the salt out of it and packed it up. There was no auch thing as mining salt like they do now. it would take from August tiret till about the middle of Sept.mbsr to get it. Ox teem won t make more than abo it twelve miles a day. The people would make up a wagon train and go and cc~ together. People in those days didn t believe a horse would pull anything but a ~.tW, 10 they used steers mostly for heavy pulling. They ran all gin. and thrasher. by horse power and the running gear was all made out of wood. A lot of people say you couldn t make a wooden cotton press that would pack a bale of cotton. You can make a wooden press that will break a bale in two. or cou.rae the gin was made out of metal. Rit they made the press out of wood.

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9. 220 Slave Schooling The elavea were not allowed to learn anything. Sometimea one would be shi~wd enough to get In with the white children and they would teach him ~- his a-b-o e, and after he learnet to spell he would steal books and get out i ~ and learn the rest for hlmaelt. . How Freedom Came Im, way I heard it the owners called their slaves up axid told them they was tree. They give them their choice of leaving or staying. Most ot them stayed. Pirat Crop after Freedom ~In 1865, when the slaves were treed, they acknowledged they were free in May in Alabama. All that wae free and would stay and help them make their oropa, they give them onei.tenth. That is, one~.tenth went to all ths hands put together. Ot couree it they had a lot of hands that wouldn t be mach. Then again, it might be a good deal. I know about that by hearing the old people talk about it. . Opinions . I ll tell you my opinions some other time. I think the young psopis are beyond control. I don t have any trouble with mine I never have had any trouble with them.~

[Interview with Hays, Eliza] 222 221

:30840 ~ 221 Interview.r~ SamuelS. ~a~$q~ Person interviewed ~ ~ ~izaftajg 22l5~ L~ Pw tiith Stre t ~ Little Rock,~ IikanIaa Age ~ ~ _ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~On the fourth of August, my birthday, and directly after the colored people were eet free all the white people gave a great big dinner to ths slaTea. All the white people at my home cama together and gave a big dinner to ua. It was that way ai . over the United 8tatee. My mother told me I was four year. old at that big dinner. They wnt to a great big book and throwed it open and found my birthday in it. I nver will forget that. You can figure from that exactly how old I a~. (8.vezity-aeven or aeventy.. eight -ed.) My mother e name was Xlizabeth Tiiggie end my father a n~ was Albert Thggle. My mother was the mother of aixteen children. They were ecim of them born in freedom and e~ born in alavery. They ei . all dead but three. My mother was married twice. SOld TOEt Owene was my mother a maater. I juat do re~mber hlii. My father e master waa nened Tan Tuggle My mother and my father got together by going different places and meeting. They went together till freedcm and weren t marri d except in the way they ~arried in ala~ery. J~Iring alavery times, old aaster gave you to acme one and that was aU of it. My fatber aeked my mother s old iiaster if h could go with my mothsr and old ~a Owens said yea. Then father went to her cabin to eec her. Ihen frei.. dcm o~, he taken her to hie place and married her accordin to the law.

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a. 222 Aunt 3lariny ~gg1e wa~ my fathsr a mother. I don t know anything about his father. She has besn dead! She died when I waa young. I can remember her well, though. ~I eau rinember my mother a mother. Her nans waa Kliza Whitelow. Rar huaband *aa named 3ack Ihiteloir. They was my grandfather and my grand. mother on my mother a side. They old people. I can remembr a,eing theai. WI never aaw my grandfather on my tather a aide. That was way back in 8lavery time. I uaed to hear then say he was a guinea man. Re waa short. My own father was mnall too. But my father s father was short as I ~. I ala about four and a half feet tall. ( I stopped here and ~easured her, and ~he was exactly four feet six inches tall--ed. ) I never heard nobody say where he came from. My father s sisters were part Indian. Their hair was longer than that ruler you got in your hand there. It o&~e down on their shoulders. They was a shade brighter than I am. My father s mother las email too. His sisters were not whols sisters; their daddy was Indien. Occupation My father and hie father and mother were all farmers. My mother and her mother were farmers too. All my people were long-lived. Grandpa, grandma, and all of theis. I reckon thers about a hundred children scattered back there in Tennessee. Brother s children and sister a chLLdren. I believe my folks would take cars of me if they knew about my condition. These folks hers ars mean. Them folks would take cars of me if I were hc~, &ave Housse ~The alavse lired in old log houses; just one rocs, one door, ons window, one everything. They had any kind of furniture they could git,

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C) 5. Sc~ of tha had old homeaad beda and s~e or tb on. thing and another. You know the white folka waan t goin to give them no turnitu~s. ~Th.y had plsnty of asat and br.ad and milk to eat. Coai a fOod,.the ccaaonsat kind or food they could git hold otZ lihon I know,d anything, I waa in the big houae eating ths bee with the ihite tolk. cs of this could live lush then. My ~jns g~y ~ to the Owenass--hsr old miatma. I waa raie.donapaflet inth.houa..Iwaein th.ho~ie.frcsth.tia. I waa large enough to be tak n frcm my mothsr. I didn t never do any work tin I was ~iarrisd, Old atatr. iouldn t let a iork. J~zat kssp by her and hand her a drink or ~at x, and on like that. ~i a dsad now .4M, dead, d.ad Thsy didn t lavs ~it two children. They was round in the country aa~.wh.r.a ihsn I left th rs. RAtter. I married I wnt to her huaband . first sir. . ohitd. ~. had about nine or ten boye and one girl. I raiasd part of this. ~t ~o.t of theni wac great big children--big enough for to throi a glass of milk at theirS hads. I would fight. Scnatiaa thsy ua.d to hsar theu holl.ring and cc~e out and I would he throwing a glas. at one and jumping aeroas the table at the other. ~it uh~ thee boy. gisv up, they lov.d just t1~. same as Sfl7b0d7. nobody in to~ could touch ~ right or irong, Msan )Iaatsra My n~other a maters uasd to tie her dom bsfors tk dairy door and hays two n~n beat b.r. She ha. told as that thsy u.id to bat her till the blood ran down on the brick.. Sou. *ite psopli in 81aYr7 tima was good to the ni~r.. ~it thos ~rs ~n. That e the rssaon Iain tgotnouatorvhitstolka. I agladlwaenotoldinthat time. I sirs would hais kII1Id anybody that treatad that ~7.

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4. 224 I don t know that my fathsr a psopi. b.at hia up. I think his people isrs kindsr and aoxtsr humored Ida becaus hs was 80 iiill. N ~rria~ ~Th.y t.11 me acme ot thea would have a big supper and. then thsy would hug and ku. each other and juap over the bro~st1ck and they were euppoesd to be married. Msae.~snt and Recreation ~They u.ed to go out and dance and carry on for amusement, and tbey would go to church too. It waa just about 11k. it i. now~ ~ncing end going to church is about all they do now, Isn t it? They got a gambling game dom there on the corner. They used to do a~s of that too, I ~ss.. Rrssdera RI have heard my mothsr say many time th~ a i~sn wo~ald be p~t up on the block end sold and bring good money beoaua she was known to bs a good and tact breeder. Ku Klux, Patroilsre, Robbsra ~I ve hsard of the pat.rol.. aM Kti Klux. I thOught they mid the I~ Klux was robb.ra. I think the L~ E.u came after the Wer. ~at there was acme t urine the War that would c~ round and ask questions. Ihers a yo old master? Where a hia money hid? Ihsre a his silver~rs? And on like that. Then they would take all the monay and silvsr end anything else loose that could b. carried away. And ecs of thon need to steal th. niggers th ira.lvse specially if they were littis chiidrene. They was acarsd to leave the littl children run round because of tbat.

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5. 225 ~ . Opinions *1 don t know. ~ I bs,tt.r ksep iiy pinions to. myself. You just ha~ to go on and be thankful and Look to the Lord~ . SLtpport and Later Life . RI haven t done a day s work for seven years. I haven t been abis. I have a son, but he has a family of his own to support and can t do nothin for . I hays another son but h is now out ot work hia8elf. Re can t get anything to do. I just have to git along on ~hat littI. I can .tii~~ up ays.lf, and what little I get from my friends. My husband died about a ven years ago. I have lost two boys inside of seven years. Aft.r they di~d, I nt right on dowa. I ain t bu no good since. The yon~st one, Moss, got kill.d on a ~znday night. I f.lt it on 8aturday night and screamed s that peopLe h~d to c~ round ~ and hold me and ccm:tort ~. Then on 3~nday night Moss got shot and I want crazy. R. was my baby boy and hs and hi. brother wer. my only support. My other boy got sick and died at the hospital. Ihen thsn st.pped on the porch to tell me he was dead, I ~ew it when I heard hin step up before he could say a word. I can t git to see his wife now. ~ was the ewsetut w~en ever was. ~.e was sLirs good to my son. ~e trsated hi~ like he was a baby. ~e was devoted to him end his last request to her was to ae to me. I don t ~ow just whers she is now, but ehe s in the city a~.Whirss. She would help me I know if I could get to her. My husband was a preach.r. He pastor.d the St. Jobn Baptist Church for fifteen years. i~ liwaI hexe over thirty ysars bstors he died. I l ft a good hone in Broinsvill Tenz.sss.. That s where w. wer. marri.d. I hays be xi aarri.d twice. I lived with my first husband, George ~iav.r, a ysu.

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6. 226 I aarrisd kil about 1876. 1 was single tor t~o y.ara. Mtsr that I married Ret. ~Eays. I livsd with Bay. Hays about tWenty-One y.ars in Brcwna~ ville, Tinnesass. le bought a house and lot th.rsa I. w.z,. gsttin along tine when we decided to oom hers. ifs was a ahosmaksz~ thin. He made shoss after h. caa hers too. I ran a restaurant in Brownsville, I g~ie.s lived together mors than fifty years in all. He dI.d asvn years ago. ~ I rent these two roo&.s in this littl shack. Thsy won t giv ~. no help at the. Ielfars.~

[Interview with Haynes, Tom] 228 227

; ~ : 227 Int.rYi.!er - .~- ~ ~rni.es ~Bo~ n Person interviewed . ~ ~cpJ~Y.~p ~ ~ ~ 1110 1. Second ~~: t ~ Pine Bluff,. Arkansas A~ ~ _ - ~~- ~- i. ~ I was six years old when the war ended -~ the day we was set free. My old mistress, Miss Becky Franke, o~ in and say to my mother ~ you ja free this morning and commenced cryin 8he gtve my mother some jerked beet for u.. ~ I know I run out In the yard where there was eighty Yankee soldiers and I pulled out my shirt tail and ran down the road kickin up the dust and sayin ~I m free, I~m fre4~ My motbar said, ~ou~~ better coes back hera! I never knew my mother to get tut ~ one whippin She put out bar mouth against old mistress and she took her ~ out and give her a brsehin . I can remember away back. I can rsi~mbsr when I was three years old, One day I was out in the yard satin dirt and had dirt all over my tac. ~ Young master Henry cc~ out and say Stick out your ton~a, I m goixi to eut it off. I was scared to death. ~e said SNow y~ think you can quit eatin that dirt? I said Yea so he let me go. One time the Yankee soldiers took young Master Henry end hung him u~p by the thumbs and tried to make him t.ll where the money was. Master Kenry s little brother Yim and me run and hid. We thought they was goin to hang us too. le crawled under the house just like two frogs lookin out.

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2. 228 *olfl ina tei had about thirty five beMa but soii~ of em run away to weX~ My father run away too, but the war endd beto~ e he ooul4 ~et into it. ~ I went to school a little while but my father died and my mother bound zi~ out to a white man. Then we was first freed I brow thoae eighty aoldiera took ua colored tolka to the oounty band in MontieeUo. There was forty eo 4iera in the back and. forty in tront and we was in the awing. WI learned to read after I waa grown. I worked for the railroad in the freight office fifteen yeara and learned to check bag~a. *1 was a house mover when I was but I m not able to work now. I own this houae here and I m livin on the reliet~ . My tather Wa. a blackamith and shoemaker ~ aad all our shoes. I ve lived in town all x~y lite. The people are better off tree if they had any sense. They need a leader. When they had a chance if they had bought property, but no -~ they wanted to get in office and ihen they got in they didn t know how to act. And the young people don t use their education to help thea selves.

[Interview with Haywood, Joe] 230 229

(~4/ ~ 229 3~, i~ Interviewer Bernice Bowden Person Inter~1~ed. ~ Joe ~ywood 2207 West E~Li~renth Striet, P{I i Bluff, ~kanaai~ Age 76 I was born t~ firat day of January 1826. Born in 11281881pp1 Yazoo County. ~r mother said I wa~ a Nfw Year s present. A. M. Paine was our owner. I just do member seem the soldiers arid that 8 all. m~nber the brim of slavery and that s ai . I member Henry Dixon. He was a EC1u Klux. He was Kin Kiukin round break in up the benevolent societies. He was a real bad. mari. He just went round with his crowd arid broke em up. My owner was a good man ~ good man. They all give hirn a good name. Our folks stayeti there till I was plumb grown. nI ye farmed, carpentered, and all kinds of work on the plantation, I ve been a engineer in a gin and gettin out crops every year. After I left Miesissippi I just roved around. Went through Louislazia to Texas. I lived in Texas. I reckon, from 1893 to 96. Then I started to rove a~ga1n. I roved from Texas back home to Mississippi in 19Q2. Stayed there till 1932, then I roved Over here to Arkansas. I done got too old to rove now. School? Oh Lord, I went to school all my days till I was grown. They kep me in 8ch o 1 My ~ mo the r kep me in t il 1 she dl ed and. then my stepmother kep me in. I got very near through the fifth grade. In my day the fifth grade was pretty good. Wilson s ~ifth Reader was a pretty good book. T~iey took me out of ~Vilson e Fifth Reader and put me iii McGuffy s and. there s where I quit. Studied the Blue Back Speller. #782

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2~. 230 tltve had. some narrow e8oapes In my life. I had. a shol right through here in the brea8t bone ~- right over my heart. That was in ninety six. Me and. another fellow was projectin with a gun. Then I had a bad accident on the ninth of March, 1914. A 800 foot log caine down on me. It near bout killed me. I was under a doctor bout six or eight months. ~hat s how come I m crippled now. It broke my l~ arid. it s t~~io inches shorter than the other one. I walked on crutches bou.t five years. Got my jawbone broke too. Couldn t eat? I ain t never stopped eatin . Ain t no way to stop me from catin cept to not give it to me. I conipressed after I got my leg broke. And I was a noble good. bricklayer. I never have voted. Nobody ever pushed me up to it and I ain t never been bothered bou.t anything like that. Everythin was a satisfaction to me. Just what eve r way they went was a sat isfact ion to me. I have never heard my folks give my white folks no down the hill . ~y daddy was brought from Charleston, South Carolina. He was a ship carpenter. He did. all o f Payne s carpenter work from my baby days up~ The last of the Paynee died since I caine here to Arkansas. He was a A. M. Payue, too. I can member the soldiers znarchin by. They wore yellow shirts and. navy blue coats. I know the coats had. two little knobs right behind, just the color of the coat. ~ I don t know what to think of the younger generation. I don t know why and what to think of ein. Just don t know 1~ow to take em. Ain t comin like I did.. Lay it to the parents. They have plenty of leaders outside the family. I m lookin for a better time. God s got !is time set for em on that. ni belong to St. James Methodist Episcopal Church.

[Interview with Hervey, Marie E.] 232 231

#73? 231 t )U ~~ Interviewer arnue1 .Ta~1or Person interviewed Marie Z. Herv?j~, 1520 Pulaski 8treet, Little Rock, Arkansas ~ ~ ~ ._ . ._ ~ ~ _ ni have heard my father and mother talk over the War so many times, They would talk about how the white people would do the colored and how the Yankees would come in and tear up everything and take anything they could get their hands on. They would tell how the colored people would soon be tree. My mama s white folks went out and hid when the Yankees were coming through, My father a white people were named Taylor a-.-old ~ob Taylor e folks. They lived in Tennessee, My mother said they had a block to put the colored people and their children on and they would tell them to tell people what they could do when the people asked them. I~ would just be a lot of lies. And some of them wouldn t do it. One or two of the colored folks they would sell and they would carry the others back. When they got them back they would lock them up and they would have the overseers beat them, and bruise them, and knock them round and say, yes you can t talk, huh? Tou can t tell people what you can do? D.~t they got a beating for lying, and they would uh got one it they dn t lied, most likely, They used to take pregnant women and dig a hole in the ground and put their stomachs in it and whip them. They tried to do my grandma that way, but my grandpa got an ax and told them that it they did he would kill them. They never could do anything with him.

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a. 232 My mother s people wore the Hesa a, They were pretty good to hei . It was them that tried to ~whip my grandma though. You had to cal . everybody Mi and Mars in those days. AU the old people did lt right after slavery. They did it in my tine. But ~ children wouldn t. They sent xr~ and my sister up to the house once to get some meal ~ We said we weren t goin to call them no Mars and tMist . ? Two or three t lines we would ge t up to the bouse and then we would turn round and go back. le couldn t make up our nilnIs how to get what we was sent after without sayin Mars and Mia~, finally old man Nick noticed ua and said, What do you eh lichen want? And we said Grandma says she wants soirs mea . . When we got back, grandma wanted to know why we took so long to go and come. We told her all about it. People back home still have those old ways. If they meet them on the street, you got to get oft and. let them by. An old lady just here a few years ago wouldn t get oft the sidewalk and they went to her house and beat C H~w od) her up that night0 That is in Brownsville, Tennessee in HayeardA ounty. That s an old rebel place. White pople were pretty good to the old colored folks right after the War. me white folks were good to my grandfather. The Taylora were. They would give him a hog or soinething every Christmas. All the old slaves used to go to the big house every Christmas and they would give them a present. My husband ran off from his white people They was in Helena. That a where he taken the boat. He and a man and two women crossed the river on a plank. He pulled off his coat and got a plank and carried them across to the other side. He was goin to meet the soldiers. He had been told that they were to corne through there on the boat at four o clock that afternoon.

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3. 233 The ?9b18 had him and the othere taking them acme place to keep them frcm fallin into the iiaiids of the Yankees, and they all ran oft and hid. They laid in water in the swamp all that night. Their bo8see were looking for them everywhere and the dog bayed through the forest, but they didn t find theme Afld they met 8Ofl~8 ithit~ folks that told them the boat would co~ through there at four o clock and the white folks said, When it comes through, you run and get on it and when you do Il be free 11 know when it 8 commt by its blowin the whistle. You ll be safe then, f cause they are ank And he caug~at it. He had to cross the river to get over into Helena to the place where the boat would make its landin After that he got with the Yankees and went to a whole lot of places. When he was xiaistered out, they brought him back to Little Rock. The people were ~irl labman and two women who had their children with them, I forget the names of the women. They followed my husband up when he ran off. My husband s first name was Aaron, My husband had a place on his back I ll remember long as I live, It was as long as your forearm, They had beat him and triade it. He said. they used to beat niggers and then put salt and pepper into their wounds. I used to tell daddy that You ll have to forget that if you want to go to heaven. I would be in the house working and daddy would be telling some white person how they bused the slaves, and sometimes he would be tellin some colored person bout slavery. They sold him from his mother, They sold his mother and two children and kept hirn. He went into the house crying and old rais gave him some biscuits and butter, You see, they didn t give them biscuits then. That was the satre as givin him candy. She said, Old t goin to give you

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4. 234 8C~9 good biscUita 811d ao~ buttei , H~ never did hear from his motker until after fredcm. Some thougiti about him anI wrote him a letter for hei . There was a man here who wae from North Carolina and my husband got to talking with him and he was going back end h knew ~ hu8baud a mother and his brother and he said he would write to my husband it my husband would write him a letter aiid give it to him to give to hie mother. He did it an~d his mother sent him an answer. Be would have gone to see her lxtt he didn t have money enough then. The bank broke and he lost ithat little he had saved. He corresponded with her till he died. Rtt he never did get to see her any more. *Nothint slips up on ~. I have a guide. I ~ warned of everything. Nothin Mp~OnS to x~ ~ that I don t know it before Follow your first mind. Conscience it is. It s a great thing to have a conscience0 ~l was born in ~nneaaee. I have been in Az kansaa about forty-aix years. :i used to cook but I didu t do it long. I never have worked out much only just my work in the house. My husband has been dead four years this last April. He was a good man. le were married forty years the eleventh of December and he died on the eighth of April.

[Interview with Hicks, Phillis] 236 235

30724 235 ~ ~ ~b *4~ Interviewer ~- -u~ - - L - JI18$I1 S1~S Bo~~b!!$o* ~ Peraon interviewed ~il1L8 ~eks.. ~d~nd.on.~ ~xkan~a. Age71 ~ My mother a oiner wae Master Prisat Gatea. He had a son in Mernphii. I seen him not long ago. He . la an insurance agont. They was roey rich looking folka. Mama was a yellow w~v. ~ie hat fourteen 1i~ing children. Her name was Harriett Gatse. Papa naa.d Shad. Huggina. They b.long to differsnt folka. They waa announced married before the War and they didn t have to remarry. She aaid the ovsraeera was cruel to them. They had whit men over Beers. She vas a field hand. I heard h.r ~ay ehe was 80 tired ihen eh. come to the houee she would teks her baby in h.r arme to nur~ end go to sleep on the steps ox under a tree and never wake till. they w ild be going to the field. ~e would get up and go on b~ek. They et breakfast in the field many and many a ti~ Old people cooked anti took cars of th children. She never waa sold. I don t know if ~y fath.r was. They cc~e fron Alab~a to Miasiasippi and my mother had been brought fr~ Georgia to Alabe. ~Shs picked geese till her fingers would bleed to make feather beds for old meeter I reckon. They picked geese jus so oft n. The Gate. had ~ eeveral big quarter. and lote of leni. Thsy co~ie to be poor people after the 1er . land poor. Mother l.ft Gates after ths 1er. They didn t get nothing bat good freedc~ ae I ever heard of. My tather was a eh..aaker at old age. Es said he learned his trade in alavery time.. H. 8hare cropped and rentd after freedom.

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2. 236 I heard em say ths Li Klux kept ein run lii home at night. So much stealing going on cud it would be laid at th hands of the colored . folke if they didn t stay in p .ac . lu Klux made them wOrk, said th.y would etarvs and atarre white folkB too it they didn t work. They wac share cropping then, yea ma am, ai . of them. I know that they aaid~ they had no etock, no land, no rations, no houses to live in, their clothes was thin. They said it was squally times in slavery and worse after freedc~. They wore the now clothe in winter. By sui~er they was ~re thin sud by next winter they had made s me mor cloth to make more new clothes. They wove one winter for the next winter. When they got ~ to share croppin they had ~ t o keep a fire in the fireplace aU night to warm by. The clothes and beda was rags. Corn bread and meat was all they had to eat. Maybe they had pumpkins corn, end potatoes. They said. it was equally tii~s. . ~ - ~I got a place. I rent d it ut to save it. My brother rente it. I can t hardly pay taxes. I d like to get some help. Icould ~sw it they would l t me on. I can ses good. I m going to chop cotton but it so long till then. - ~ ~I washed and ironed in Memphis tifl waahing went out of .tyle. Prices are sohigh now and cotton cheap. I m counting on better ti~s. Tiines is close. Young folk8 is like young folks always been. Sm.. ars sI art and s~c lazy. None don t look ahead. They don t think about saving. 1e58 they don t know how to save. Eight smart spends it foolish. I m a widow and done forked dom.

Ex-slaves. 238 237

interv1e~er Perflel .a ~tereon ~ 237 30010 . - ~ ~:~V5, ~ ~-SLAVES I was born in Farnierville, La., I don t know what year. I was about three or four years at s~trrender. I lived with my mother and father. The fir8t work I ever did was plot. I did~ not work very hard. at no time bu.t wbat ever there was to do I went on and got through with it. All of our work was mu~ac1e ark. There were no cuit ivators. I stayed at home with ray father and. mother until I was 32 sears ot age. I was thirty years old. when papa died. and mother lived two years longer. About a month after mother died I married. We lived in a real good. hQuse. ~ father bought it after slavery time. We had good furniture that was bought from the hardware. The first stove that we used we bought it and father bo~ight it just after surrender. ~ ~ ~ Never used a homemade broom in my life. 1~oLMa just naturally liked ~ cakes so she always cook~ them in the fireplace. We ~re all homespun clothes, and we wore the big bill baily hats. We chaps went barefooted until I was 16 years old then I bought my first pair of shoes. They were brase toe progana. I never been in the school house a day In my life. Can t read. neither write nor figure. I went to church. Our first preacher was name Prince JOr~s. The biggest games I played was ball and card.. I was one of the best dancers. We danced the old julaml dance, swing your partner, prOmonate. Danced by fiddling. The fiddlers could beat the fiddlers of today. Get your partners, swing thsn to the left and to the right, hand~s up four, swing corners, right hands up four promonate all aro%~ all the way, git your partners boys. I shoot dice, drink, I got d~riink aria broke up church one Sunday night. MB aM sister broke up a dinner once because we got drunk. Whiskey been in cirIU~ltiOfl a long time. There have been bad people ever sirk~e I been in the world. Will Hicks.

[Interview with Higgins, Bert] 239 238

litterviswer Mr.. Berii.toe Bowdon - _$ _ _l ----~ ~--~ -~~- ~L ~ - _____.__ ___ .- - _J- .-~- -L___ Penon interviewed BSrtKi~g1nB 6 . . Jliaaouri Street, Pine Bluff, Arkanaaa Age~_~!8 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ *1 was born In slavery tiaea. I was thirteen when paoe declared, I wa8 workin In the field. No ma am, I wasn t born in Arkansas. I waa born in Macon, Miaeiaaippl. Marcus Higgina waa my old maater. He waa good to ~. He treated ~ all right. eue had a good big plantation-~-.had two plantations. One in North Carolina and one in Mississippi. *Sold? Yes m, I was put up on the block, but they couldn t quite make it. Had six ot us--boys and girla.and he sold one or two I ma~b.r. ~it that s been a long tima. ~Tea m, I can member ehen I was a boy in slavery. Run off too. Old master ketch me and switch ma. I~ok like the switch would sting so. Member the last switehin I got. ~. Henderson-~I think he was old master s son in-law. Me? Well, he ~hipped ma cause I d steal his eggs. I don t reckon I would a been so bad b~~t I was raised up a motherless child. My mother died and my ate~uother died. *1 can member pretty well way back there. He d send ma off on a eile to carry the mail to his people around. And I used to tote water. He had a heap a darkies. I could do very well now if I could see and 1f I wasn t so crippled up. I was a hard worker.

240 239

2. 239 ~We had a plenty to eat end plnty to wear i~ slavery ti~a. *o:Ld iiaeter would ihip m if I wnt any further than the orchard. It I did happen to go outaid the field, I c~e in fore night. ~it I hardly ever went outside. S Iteti~O8 I run off and when I ccm back to the house, he d give me a breehin . *1 seen the Yankees dunn of the War. I run tr~ e~ and hid. I thought they was tryiu to carry ~ off. White folks never did t ll nothin They d cc~ne in and throw things outdoora and destroy ein.~old master a provieiona. And they d take thinge to eat too. lLy father belonged to Marcus Kiggine wben I first could r~neiabsr. After freedom we stayd there till I was grown. I don t never ~embsr him payin me, tut I got acethin to eat and a place to stay. NI never went to school; I had to work. I farmed all my life till I come to the city of Pine ELuff. I worked here bout thirty years. I ve always been well treated by my white folks. I never saseed a white person in my life as I remember of never did. I think that s the reason I was so well. took care of cause I never sasesd em. I ve always tried to do what was right. eI think these here government people have treated us mighty well. They have give us money and other things, ~When we got tree old master read it to us out of the paper, le was out In the field and I was totin water. Sc~ of em struck work and weat to the house and set around a while but they soon went back to the field. And a few days after that he hired em. *Old master was good. He d let you stop and rest. He hired a overseer lxtt he didn t do no work. The time run out fore he got started,

241 240

3. 24() 1 think this younger gsnsratioa is havin a hsap hardsr t1 thea th old folk. did. Their diebehavior and th y ibsy carry thsiraslvea now day.. 80 ao~y of ~ will pick ~p thi*g. doa t bOIOn to sah 1 don t bslievs in thas hers auporetitions I trisd carryin a rabbit foot and I know it n T.P brought ~ no good luck. it yo~ aer~e th Lord aM try to lies right, pray aM erve th. Lord, and ~atevsr y~a n.d yo~ 1l get it..

[Interview with Hill, Annie] 242 241

3064G ~. . . ~ 241 Circumetanceso flnterv lew STATE Ark ans as I ~U.~E OF ~VRK.F~t Samu.el s. Paylor ADDRESS- Li ttl e Rock Arkans as DATE December, 1938 ST.LBJECT- ~ slave 1. Nari~ aui. a~iress Of inforinant Axmie Hill, 3010 Izard. Street, Little Rock 2. Dateand time of interview ~ . 3. Place of interview 3010 Izard. Street, Little Rock. 4. Narrie and address of person, if any, whO ptit you. in touch With informant--e b. i~ame aixi address of person, if any, accompanying you - b. i)escrlption of room, house, surroundings, etc. -

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j~79O FORMB ~rsona1 History. of I.nforrnant ~T~TE Arkansas ~ ~ ~ OF WOhKi~R Sarnu.el S . Taylo r ~1jjBESS LItt1e Rock, Arkansas 5.~T- December, 1938 SUBJEC~- & s lave 2 ~~:~ ~ DDRE~SS OF INFOhi~i~N~ Arinie Hill, 3010 Izarci Street, Little Rock. 1. Ancestry father, Richard Hill; mother Huid.a Bruce. 2 i?lace and date of birth - bashville, Arkansas in 1877. 3. Family 4. Places lived in, with dates ~ashvi11e, Benton and Little Rock. ~o dates. 5. Education, with dates- ~. occupations and accomplishments, with dates Laundry work. 7. SpecIal skills and interests, ~. Community and religious activities :. iescription of informant 10. Other points gained in interview

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. . #790 FOBMc !!~t~~!f,r!~.!w (Unet~I1edj STATE- Arkaflsa8 NAME OF WORKE~~-Samue1 s. PaylOr ADDBESS Little ~ek, Arkansas DATE- December 1938 StJ.WEC!L~- Ex-s1a Te . NAME AND ADDR~S OF INFORMLNff -~-Annie Hill ~1O Izard Street, Little Rock s * * ** ** ** * * * ** * * * * * * *** 4 ** * * * ** * ** * ** * My mother lived to be one hundred years old.. She died In 1920. }Ier nana Is HtLlcla Bruc e. She be1oz~g d to a man named Le s 11e durIng s lavery. I forget his n~ne h1a first name. She come from Mississippi. She was sold. there when she was eleven years old.. ~that Is where all her people were. There might be some o f 1~iem here arid I d.on t know I t. She said. she ha4 three sister~ but I don t know any of them. ~the folks raised her- the Leslie whit e folks. It was the Lesli es tbat brought her and. bought her in the old. cOuntr,y. I don t know the names of the people that sold. her. She wasn t nothing bat a kid. I gaeas she im~1d hardly know. The Leslies brought her to Arkansas when she was eleven. That is what she always told. us kids. She was eleven years old. when they sold her. Just like selling mules. M1 don t know what is the first place they come to here. Benton, Arkansas was the first place I knowed. anything about. That is where her folks were arid that is where the young generation of them is now. The old ones is d.ea~i and. gox~. I was born in Nashville. And. she had. come from Bantou to Nashville. She was living in Beriton, Arkansas when she died.. She was never able to

245 244

244 send~ me to school when I was young. Wh~ the white folks first turned them loose they weren t able to do for them as they are now. Children have a chance now and don t app re cl ate it. i3ut when I was oonii~z3g up my folks weren t able. Mother knew ahe was one hundred eight years old because her white folks told her wkiat it was. when her old white folks died, the young ones hunted it up for her ~t. of the old family Bible and sent it to me. The Bible was so old that the leaves were yellow and. you. could hardly turn them. They were living in Benton, Arkansas and I guess they are still living there because that is the old home place. That is the kids Is still there, cause the old. folks 1~ dead. and. gone. One girl is named Cora and one of the boys is called Bud, Buddy. Leslie is the last name of them both. I got one of her pictures with her young master s kids~-three of em- in tI~mre with her. Anybody that bothered that picture would git in it with me, cause I values it. ~ . ~other farmed right after the surrender She married after freedom but went back to her old name when her buaband left. He was named Richard Hill. He was supposed to be a bishop down there in Arkadelphla. But he wasn tno bishop with mama. All them Hills in Arkadeiphia are kin to me. She had. four children one boy and. three girls. The boy died. before I was born. She was just married the one time that I know about. Her white folks ~re good to her. You know tbare was so many of them that weren t. And you knOw they bound to be because they were always good. to her. They ~u.ld be looking for her and sendlxg her something to eat and. send1z~ her shoes and clotI~s and things like that, and. she d. go to them and stay with them months at a time so they bound to ye been good to her. All the young kids always called her their Black Mavmny. They thought a heap

246 245

245 of her. That Is ~ Ince freedom. Since I been born. That Is soinethin I BS ~ wit h tny own eyes . ~ - ~i speet my mother s white folks is mad. at me. They corne to see her just before she died au~ they knew she couldn t live long. They told. me to let them know tien there was a chaiice. That was abou~t three days before she died. There come a storm. It broke d~own the wi re so we couldn t let them know. ~ boy was too small ; I couldn t send~ hirn. He was only xiine years ~ old.. And you know how it is out iii the country, you can t keep them long. You have to pu.t them awa~. You. can t keep no dead. person in the country. ~O I had. to bury her withOut letting en know it. . I do laund~x7 work for a living when I can get any to do. I am living with my boy but I do lauxdry work to help myself. It is so good. and nice to kinda help yourself. I ll do for self as lox~ as I am able and when I can t, the children can help ni more. I have heard and seen so many mothers whose children would do things for them ani it would.n t suit so well up the road. You see ne hopping alox~g; I m trying to work for Annie. My mother told me abou.t seem the pateroles before the War and. the Ku Klux Klan afterwards. ~ie knOwed~ them all right. She never talked much about the patero le s. It was mo etly the Ku Klux. Ne Ither o f t bern never got after her. She said the Ku. Klux used to come in by droves. She said the Ku Klu.x were dressed all in white white caps and white hoods over their faces, and long white uresses. The~r cone out mostly at night. ~iey never did, bothe r he r, but the y botbe red othe rs round her that she knowed about. Sometimes they would take people out and. beat them and do round with them. 3tit she never did know just what It was they did and. just what they did. it for. You see, her white folks was particular and didn t talk much before

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her. SO many colored folks learnt thir~s because they eavesd.ropped their ~iite folke, but r~ther didn t do that. She didn t leaxrx nothin bu~t what they talked before her, au~ they wer. careful. Btit they protected her. Th~r never did allow nobody to bother her no way. She was a Baptiet. She belonged to the white folks church before she was ~reec1. Then she joined the Methodist church at Bentoz~ because there wasn t no other church there. But she was a fui1~b1ood Baptist. 246

[Interview with Hill, Clark] 248 247

~ee~ :91 /74 ~4 g, Interviewer Mn. Bernice Bowdsn Peraon intervlswed Olark Hill ~-i:5~ K. Nih 8treet, Pine Bluff, Lrkanaas ~ 82 Good morning. My na~ ia Clark Hill. My name goes by my white rolke. I was born in Georgia ~ in inericua, Georgia. My old n&aeter was Will G. Hill and they called ~y young master Bud. I never did know what hie name was -~ they juet called him aid. It was my job to sweep the yard, keep ~oke on the meat and tire under the kiln. Yea ml Old master had a big orchard and he dried all the fruit in ths kiln peach.., applei, and pears. Then he had lots a watermelons too. When they got rip. they d get all the childun big enough to tote a z~lon and we d carry em to the houai. I would like to be with my white folks now. SOld master raised pigeone too and it used to be my job to go down to the pigeon house and ketch the equalle (squabe). I used to go to church with my white tolke too. I was the gate opener. They put me on the litti. seat at the back of the carriage. When we got there they d 1.t us ohildun sit in the back. The preacher would tell us to obey our master and not take anything that belonged to him. ROh, my white folks was good to ~. He never hit me ~t once and that was one time when my brother went into the kitchen, w ~it into sc~ pesa the cook had and she told on him. Old master co~ down

249 248

2. 248 .. and told ~y brothsr to eat the whole dieh full. Re never hit hi~ or nothin b~xt juet etood th,re and iiiade him eat em. I thought I d help him out a little and. eaid to my brother, Give ~ ec~. Old master just took his walking stick and hit me over the head, and that s ths onliest time he ever hit m. When you got bi .nou~h to marry and waa courtin a woman on another plantation, you cc~a~1thi t bring her hoius with you. Old maater would marry you. lie d say I give thia man to you and say clark, I give thie woman to you and now you is ~n and wife They nevr had no book of matrimony ~- if they did I never eeen it. Then you could go over to ee her every aturday and stay all night. I uad to work in the field. They didn t farm then like they do now. They planted one row a cotton and one row a corn. That was to kiep the land from gettin poor. RI reaeiabr when the Yankeea waa cooiin through I got soared beeauee soin. of the tolke said they had horns. I know old master took all hi. aat and carried it to another plantation. ~When freedom com old maatsr give ua all our agea. I think when they aay we wae free that i~ant every ~an was to be hi. own boas end not b. boased by a taalanaater. Cose old master wae good to ue but we wanted to have our own way bout a heap a things. 1 corns to Arkansas the second year of surrender. Yea m, I voted when Clayton was sheriff and I voted for Governor Baxter. I voted . vera . tickets. I was here when they had th Brooks-Baxter Wer. They fit not far frcm wher I was livin . SWell, that s bout all I can remember. My mind ain t so good now and I got the rheumati~ in ay leg ~

[Interview with Hill, Clark] 250 249

&.4~: ~ ~ ~ 249 Interviemar ~ . :!~as~.n~~ ~- Person inter~iswed ~ ~ ~ . . . . ~ Glark lUll . . ~ ~ . ~ & ~ ~ 818 1. Fifteenth 8treet, Pine Bitiff, Arkansas Age ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ $1 was workin round the house ~hon freedcsi coma. I vas elevn. RBorn in Georgia.-Aaericus, Georgia. Used to go With my young master to Corinth after the mail. We d ride horseback with me right behind him. He used to carry me to church too on the back seat to opea the ~tes. They worked m in the loom room too. Rad to hold the broche at the reel. I was glad nhen my young master called me oat to go after the mail, Then they work d ma In the smokeh*ts.. ~I never had no schoolin a tall. Ihat little I ~ov I larned sines I ma:rrisd. My wife was a good acholar~ / I thank the Lord he spared . Eighty.4our Is pretty old. I coma here to Pine Bluff in 66. Wasn t no town here then. . J~uat ac1~ little shacks on Barraqjae. And Third Street was called Catfish Street. *They was fifty ca4oads coma hers to Arkansas nhsn I cc~ eltve farmed mostly. Then I ve cooked four or five years in railroad camps, when they was pittin in this Cotton ~it track. Than I ve cooked on a steamboat. Yea ma em, I va voted. I voted teeth and to nail for one man, end he got lt and then they shot him down. Ko was ab~it to get o~ to the fraud. He was testin the .lection~ That was John L Clayton. ~ ~ do most anything in these bars .lectioas. I know cause I done been In so many oampai~a.R ~ .

Humorous story. 251 250

This information girn by ~ IarkRiII C O) Plac of rssideace ~ e~%~S~re~ P~. ~tur~ 4~krn ~ Ocoupatio*~~~_ ~ ~ -~- I ~ ~ p665 250 ~~ IOL~E WB~ ~T8 Name ot 1ntervie~r . ~a. ~rzice. Bowden T ~ _~-_I-~J ~ _ TJ1 . ~ - *L-~--J- ~ ~ I &tbject Huiioroui 8to~y J~______-______ L_~ U-~- - ~.- _ ~ *~*UUIU~ ~U ~ ~ ~ Story ~ Information (If not enough apace on this page, add page) WI heard a atory bout a old colored man named Tony. It isa in alave times end he was prayin to the Lord to tab him out ot bcnda~ He isa prayin 0k lord, come and tak po~r old Tony away. J~uat then acbody started knookin and Tony esys, Who d dat? It s the Lord, I come to take you away. Then Tony aatd, No! Nol ~n t take away. I ain t ready to gos ~

Superstitions. 252 251

. -~ p665 251 FOLKLORE SUB~ECTS Naine of interviewer Mra. Bernice Bowden $ubject -~ u-~ _~ ~ ~--- - -~-~--I Story Information (Lf not enou~gh space on this page add page) house and lt you will hush. Now to get to the ~I ve heard it a tu~rk1e dove, when the season firat etarti, ccmes to your house and starts moanin it e a sign you is goin to move out and. somebody else goin movs in. wir a squinch owl starts howlin round your turn your .hoe upside down at the door, they sure I know that s ~o. I used to run myselt nearly to death tryin end. ot the rainbow to get the pot ot gold. And I ve heard the old folks say if you. start any place and have to go back, you make a circle on the ground and spit in it or you U have bad lixck.* This intomnation given by Clark Hill C C) Place of re8idence 818 E. Fift,enth 8tree~ Pine Bluff, Arkenaaa Occupation -~-~ -~ ~ Age 84

[Interview with Hill, Elmira] 253 252

k)O/ 252 ~/ 3013j Interviewer Bernice B~wden Person interviewed Elmira Hill ~ Tdr~1i ~ Age9 7 Pine Bluff, Ark. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I m one of em, Accordint to what they tell nie, I think 1111 be ninety-eight the ninth day of February. 1 was born in Virginia in Kinsale County and sold from my mother and father to Arkansas. The Lord would have it, old man Ed Lindsey come to Virginia and brought nie here to Arkansas, I was here four years before the Old War ceasted and I was twelve when I come here. 1 was right there standin behind my mistis chair when Abe Lincoln said, ~ I t dare there shall ~be war ~ ~ I was right here in Arkansas - eighteen miles from Pine Bluff when war ceasted. The Lord would have it. I had a good master and mistis. Old master said, Fore old Lincoln 8hall free my niggers, I .). free em myself. They might as well a been free, they had a garden and if they raised cotton in that garden they could sell it. The Lord ble s s Hi s Ho ly Name Z We di dii t know the dIfference when we got free. I stayed with my raistis till she went back to Virginia. Yes honey, I was here in all the war I was s ~ right by my miit chair I never heard old master make a oaf in hi s life but when they brought the paper free t the slaves, he said, Dad burn it. 1 member a man called Jeff Davis. I know they sung and. said, t 11 hand old Jeff ~vis to the sour apple tree.

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2. 253 t : been here a long time. Ye8, honey, I been In Arkansas s o long I s ay I am ~ t goin out - they got to bury me here Arkansas dirt good enough for me. I say I been here so long I got Arkansas stemper (distemper), My old master in Virginia was Joe Hudson. My father used to ketch oysters and fish. We could look up the Patomac river and see the ships commt in. In Virginia I lived next to a free state and the runaways was tryin to get away. At Har~s~-Ferry - that s where old Jobn rown was carryin em aeross. My old mistis used to take the runaway folks when the dogs had bi t the ir legs and keep em for a week and cure em up This time o year you could hear the bull whip. But I was lucky, they was good to me in Virginia and good to me in Arkansas. Yes clii le I was in Alexandria Virginia in Kinsale County when they come after me by night. I was hired out to Captain Jim Allen. I had been nursin for Captain Allen. He sailed on the sea. He was a good man. He was a Christian man. He never whipped me but once and that was for teUin a story, and I thank him for it, He landed his boat right at the landin on Saturday. Next day he asked me bout somethin arid I told him a story. He s aid, I m gwine whip you Monday morning t He dn t whip me on Sunday. He whipped me and I thank him for it. And to this day the Lindseyts could trtist me with anything they had. I was in Virginia a play-chile w1~en the ships come down to get the gopher wood to build the war ships. Old mistis had a son and a daughter and we a . . played together and slep together. My white folks learned me my A B C s.

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3 . 254 They come and got me ~ and carried me to Richmond - . ha ~ where they sold em. Sold five o1~ us in one bunch. Sold my two brothers iii New Orleans - Robert and Jes e e Never a e ed them no more. Never seed my mother again after I was sold. Yes clii le I was here In Arkat~sas when the war started, s o you know I been here a long t line. UI was here when they fit the last battle In Pine Bluff. They called lt Marrnaduke s Battle and they f t lt on Sunday morning. They took the old cotehouse for a battery and throwed up cotton bales for a breastworks. They fit that Sunday and when the Yarilcees started firm the Rebels went back to Texas or wherever they come from. When we heard the Yankees was contint we went out at night and hid the silver spoons and si jrer in the toilet and burted the meat. After the war was over and the Yankees had gone home and the jayhawkers had went In ~ then we got the silver and the meat. Yes, honey, we seed a time - we seed a time. I ain t grumnblln - I tell em I m havin a wusser time now than I ever had. Yankees used to call me a know nothin cause I wouldn t tell where things was hid. Ye s obi le ni thi s way ~ I like e verbody in thi a world. I never was a mother, but I raised everbody else s chiflun. I ain t flOth1X1~ but a old manuny. White and black calls me manmia. I 11 answer at the naine. ni was married twice. Mylast husband and me lived together fifty years. He was a preacher. My first husband, the old

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4. 255 rascal - he was .so mean to nie I had toget rid of him. Yes, I been here ~o long. I think the younger genera~ tion is go in the downward way. They am ? ~ s tu but wickedness. Yes, honey , they tell me the future generation is goin a do this and goin a do that~ and they am t done notbin . And God don t like it. My white folks comes to see me and say as long as they got bread, I got it. . t,1 went to school the second year after surrender. I can read but I ain t got no glasses now. I want you to see this letter my mother sent me in 1867. My baby sister writ lt. Yes, honey, I keeps lt for remembrance. Don t know nothin funny that happened ceptin stealin my old master s company s hoss and runnln a race. White chillun too, Them as couldn t ride sideways ridin straddle. Better not ride Rob Roy - that was old master s ridin hoss and my mistis saddle hoss. That was the boss he was talkin bout ridin to the war when the last battle was fit in Helena. But he was too old to go to war. Well, goodbye, honey - 1f I don t see you no more, come across the Jordan,

[Interview with Hill, Gillie] 257 256

p78? A~U() Interviewer 8ei . 3. Taylor P~raon interviewed QUits Hill ~ ~ 7 813 Arch ~3tz eet, Litti. Rock, Arkanaaa My grandmother told rz~ that they had to chink up the cracks ao that the light wouldn t get out and do their washing and ironing at night. When they would hear the ovsraoera or the paterolers coming round ( I doxi t know which it was) they would put the light out and keep still till they had I~a88ed on. Then they would go right on with the waahing and ironing. They would hav to wash and iron at night because they were working all day. ~e told n~ how they used to turn pots down at night ao that they could pray. They had big pots then--big enough for you to get into yoursslt. I ve seen a~e of thEe big old pots and got under e~ myself. You could get under one and pray if you wanted to. You wouldn t have to prop them up to send your voice in em tr a the outside. The thins that the handle hooka into makes them tilt up on one side so that you could get down on your handa and knees and pray with your mouth close to the opening if you waiited to. Anyway, my grandma said they would turn the pots upside down and ;tick their heads !m~er th~zn tn prey. My father could make you cry talking about the way they treated folka it~ slavery ti~a. He said his old master waa so mean that he made him eat off the ground with the dogs. ~ never felt satiafierl unleai n he s~w a ~i~~ger ~ufferin .

258 257

0 XRtemewer a Qo~ut ~lli. lilU is the daughter of ve yn Zoi~a already interviewed a~d reported. ~ r., statets ~kich h haMs in aeks en interesting ~ippI. _t to her ~ther . story. 7h. ~thar, Xvelya Jon.s, roue~bsred very few tkia s in her iatsrvisw and had to be constantly pr~ptad and helped b~y her daughter and son who were ~rsasnt at sack sitting. There was considerable diffsrsnae of opini~i a~ng them over a nimber of thin~i, especially the a of the aothsr, the dm~g*it.r ahowiiig letters to prove the a of seventy, t~s mother saying she had bsn told ah. ~a sixty.sight, ~id the isa artiag that the scattering of the aa of bar ni~.t.sn children showed that ~is st be well over eighty. Gillis Hill claims to be aowhat clairvoyaat. ~. ~vs a brief iielysis of my character, stating accurately ay rsalar calling aM a few of my personal traits even indicating roughly wy bringing.up end ~hers. ~1. il not a professional fortune-teiler, and rsly ventured a few statsz~nts. $7 iaprsasion was that she ~s sa ua~sually close and alert ob~erir. Like her ~thsr eh. is s~*at taoitirn. I akmld haTe said that h z~ wother ~.a r.aerYed as well aa forg.tfUl. ~ ~ther never ventured a word except iz ansWer to a q%&ation, and used ~oayllabic enswrs ~ewver possible.

[Interview with Hill, Harriet] 259 258

30426 . . 258 Interviewer Mls Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Harriett HI . . Age 84 Forrest O1t~ Ark. ~ ~Tvis1ting ~ . fil was born in Lithonia, Georgia, at the foot of Little Rock Mountain, close to Stone Mountain, Georgia. I been sold in my life twice to my knowing. I was sold away from my dear old marrinay at three years old but I can remember lt. I remembers it~ It lack selling a calf from the cow. Exactly, but we are human beings and ought to be better than do sich. I was too little to remember my price. I was sold to be a nurse maid. They bought me and took me on away that time. The next time they put me up in a wagon and auctioned me off. That time I didn t $ell. John George (white man ) was in the war ; he wanted some money to hire a substitute to take his place fightint. So he have Jim George do the sellin . They was brothers. They talked fore me some bit fore they took me off. They wouldn t take rue to Atlanta cause they said some of the people there said they wouldn t give much price - the Negroes soon be set free. Some folks in Atlanta was Yankees and wouldn t buy slaves. They eluded the best market to sell me off would be ten or twelve miles from home. I reckon it was to Augusta, Georgia. They couldn t sell me and start on back home. A man come up to our wagon and say he d split the difference. They made the trade. I sold on that spot for ~l4OO. I was nine or ten years old. I remembers it. Course I dol I never could forget i. Now mind you that ~ was dunn the war.

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. 2. 259 Mas ter Jake Chup owned maimn~ and me too Ho s o Id me to John George. Jim George sold me to Sam Broadnax, When freedom come on that was my ~ home Freedom come In the 1. He got some of the slaves to stay to fini$h up the crops for i/iO at Christmas. When they got through dividinT up they said they goin to keep me for a bounty. I been talkin to Kitty ~ all I remembers her name Kitty. She been down there at the stream t Some children come told me Kitty say come on. She hung out the clothes. I lit out over the fence and through the field with Kitty and went to Conniars. She left me at the railroad track and went on down the road by myself to Lithonia. I walked all night. I met my brother not long after Kitty left nie. He was on a wagon. He knowed me and took me up with him to Mr. J ake Chup s Jr He was the young man. Therz Chups fed me ci 11 he come back and took me to mammy. Master Ohups sold her to Dr. Reygans. I hadn t seen her since I was three years old. She knowed me. My brother knowed me s oon as ever he saw me I might a not knowed them in a gatherin but I had&t forgot them. They hear back and forth where I be but they never could get to see me. I lived with my folks till I married. The first man I lived with ten years. The next one I lived with fifty years and some days over. He died. They both died. The man I married was a preacher. We farmed long with his preachin . We paid ~5OO.OO for forty acres of this bottom land. Cleared it out, I broke myself plum down and it got mortgaged. The Planters Bank at Forrest City took it over. I ain t had nothin since. I ain t got no home. I ain t had nothin since then. My husband died two years ago and I bas a hard time.

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3. 260 My folks was livin in Decatur, Georgia when the Ku Klux was ragin .. We sure was scared of ein. Mighty nigh to death. When freedom come on the niggers had to start up their churches. They had nigger preachers. Sometimes a white preacher would come talk to us. When the niggers be havin preachin here come the Ku Klux and run em clear out. If they hear least thing nigger preacher say they whoop him. They whooped several. They sure had to be mighty particular what they said in the preachin . They n~ade some of the nigger preachers dance. There wasn t no use of that and they knowed it. They must of had plenty fun. They rode the country every night for I don t know how long and that all niggers talked bout. My maimn~ had eleven children. . I had one boy. He died a baby. I My pa come and brought his family in 1873. He come with a gang They d.u t allow white men to take em off so a white man come and s tay round shy and ge t ni gger man t o wo rk up a gang. We all come on a train to Memphis, then we got on a big boat. No, ma am, we didn t come on no freight train. We got off at White Hall Landing. They got off all long the river. We worked on wages out here. Pa wanted to go to Mi8sissippi. We went and made eighteen bales cotton and got cheated out of all we made. We never got a cent. The man cheated us was Mr. Harris close to Trotter s Landing. Mr. Anderson, the poor white man we worked for, jumped In the river and drowned his self, The turns (returns ) didn t come In for the first batch we sold at all, then when the turns come they said we done took it up - owed it all. We knowed we hadn t

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4. 26t. took it UP but couldn t get nothin . We come back to Arkansas. HI been to Detroit, short time, and been way, but I comes back. I forgot to say this: My maimny was born In South Carolina. Marbuts owned her and. sold her. My pa lived to be 114 or 115 years old. He died in Arkansas. She did too, Of course I don t votes Women ain t got no business runfin the government I t, I nurs ed worke d in the f le Id When I was a ~ s lave they raised a little cotton in Georgia but mostly corn. I chopped cotton and thinned out corn. The present times is too fast. Sornethin goin to happen. The present generation too Folks racin . 1 in cars too fast. They ain t kind no more. ttl rent a house where I can and I get ~1O.OO from the goy- ernment, That all the support I got. I farmed in the field mighty hard and lost all we had.

[Interview with Hill, Hattie] 263 262

0 3O~ 39 . 262 ~%% Interviewer Mrs. Beriiics Bowd.en - ~ - .1 1 a-U -a-*-~,_a L ~ ~ ~~___ _-s~$~ ~ ~ _ -- -.- .~ __p a Person interviewed Hattie Hill ~ 2~ ~ i~ ~ ~i r~ ~ ~ Me 85 e- m ~ ~ ~ Yea ma aiii, I was raised a house gal. Me and another cousin and I was borned in Georgia. My old master s name was Idward Maddox. Yes ma ~. WI had a good master but I didn t have such a good misais. Her na~ was Fannie Maddox. le belonged to the old man end he was good to his niggers. He didn t low em t o be cut end slashed. about ~xt when he was gone that a when old mi would beat on ua~ I ve seen a many a one of the soldiers. They used to march by our place. I can remember one of my old misais neighbors. Her na~ was Miss Phippa. Old mi would send me there to borry meal. Yes ma em, I d go and ccn~. She d always send me. I met the soldiers a many a time. I d hide behind a tree and as they d go b~ I d go round the tree~I was so scared. But thank the Lawd, we is free now. *1. heered old master pray a many a prayer that he would~ live to see his slaves sot free. And he died the same year they was sot free. He sent for all hi s hands to come and see him fore he died Even the little chullun. I can renumber it jus as well as if twas yesterday. Old mie died fore he did. Our folks stayed on the place two years. Old master told em he wanted tern to take care of themselves and said, I want you to get you a place of yo~tr I He said I raised you honest and I want you to stay on the placi as long as you live or as long as the boys treat you right.

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2. 263 ~I seed the patroliera a . . right. I asinber that old song ~zn Nigger Run end a heap of em run too. wThe~ Kit Klux was hatefi4 too, but they never bothered my father a house. They beat one mano~Steve McLaughlin~.till he couldn t get back to the house, They beat him. fr~ the soles of his feet to the top of his head. le had a plenty to eat in slave ilinea. They fed us good. I never did work in the field.~mI was raised up a house gal, After freedom my father had me In the field. I used to cut and split a many a hundred rails in a day and didn t mind lt neither. ~I used to like to work..-.would ~rk now if I was able. Lud I d rather work in the field any day as work in the house. The people where I. lived can tell you how I worked. I didn t make my living by rascality. I woxked like my father raised ~ . Oh, I haven t forgot how my old father raised . Never went to school but one day in my life I can t read. I didn t c~ to Arkansas tU . after I was free. I been livin here 80 long I can t tell you how many yeara, I married young and I m the mother of six chiflun. *1 think a heap of the colored folks la better off free, but a heap of eta don t appreciate their freedom. Heap of the younger gsnerati on is all right and then they a a heap of ein all wrong. I can t remember nothin else cause I was too young then and I m too old now.*

[Interview with Hill, Oliver] 265 264

:~~:1c;~ 264 Interviewer IIra~ Bombs Bowden Person interviewed Oliver Hill 1101 JCentuokg Street, Pine B1Uff~ Arkansas Age 94~ ~ Oliver Hill. is ninety-4our years old, erect, walks briskly with the aid of a cane, only slightly hard of hearing and toothless. He was boru and lived In the state of Mississippi on the p1enta~m tion of Alan Brook9 where he said his father was an overseer and not a slave. Said his mother wasa fu .1.blooded Indian. (I have never talked to a Negro who did. not claim to b part Indian.) He cannot read or write and made rather conflicting statements about the reason why. White folks wouldn t let us learn. Later on in the conversation he said he went to school about one month wh n hi8 Reyes ~ot sore and they said he didn t have to ~o no more. I was nineteen years old when de Wa begun. I~ white folks never tole us nothin bout what it was to till after de surrender. Dey tole us then we was tree. They didn t give us nothin . After the surrender most of the slaves left the plantations and were supported by the &treau. In the case of Oliver Hill, this lasted five months and then he went back to his former master who gave him Ofl5.i~t1tth of what he made working in the field. Alan Brooks grieved for the loss of his slaves but at no time were they under any compulsion to remain slaves. After a long time about half of them came back to work for pay.

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2. 265 The ICu Klux Klan wea ~de devil , but about all they wanted, according to Oliver, was to make a 1~mocrat of the ex-.slavee. They were allowed to vote without any trouble, ~it de Democrats robbed de vote. Yee m I kxiowed they did. Concerning the presexrt restricted suttra~e, he thinks the colored people should be allowed to vote. In general, his attitude toward the white people is one of resentment Frequent cox~ients were: Dey won t let de colored people bury In de seine cemetery with de white people. Dey don t like it if a colored man speak to a white woman. Dey kill a colored maxi and de law don t do nothin bout lt. Old Man Brooks when referring to his former master. He lived with the Brooks temily ~or five years after freedom, and seems to have been rather a favored one with not much to do but ride around and going to dances and parties at night. When Alan Brooke died he left Oliver ~5OO In cash, a cow and calf, horse, saddle and bridle and two hogs. He went to live with his rather taking his wife whom he had married at the age of twenty-.one. A soon as the inheritance was gone the scene changed. In his words, I thought it gwine last forever. But it didn t and then he began to hold a succession of jobs field hand, sorghum maker, basket weaver, gardener and railway laborer ~ until he was toc old to work. Now he is supported by the Welfare Department and the help a daughter and granddaughter can give.

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30 266 About the younger generation ai~m, i don t k~ow what gym, c~s. of em~ The ~hitee is as bad as the bla ks.* ~jj~ thinks that pressnt conditions are caused by the sinfulness of the people. ~There were no slave uprisings but sometimes when they did not work fast enough or do the task right they were whuppsd by the overseer and given no food until it was done right. Oliver earns to ~rkensae in 1910. He has had two wives and de Lawd took both of srn~ His second wife was ligious and they got along fine. All in all he had a good time during his active days end ~ ~ ~cL~QyL Pt~ didu t have no trouble with de white folke ,, ~t~b lieve~ God devez intended some of the people to be slaves.

[Interview with Hill, Rebecca Brown] 268 267

3O767 267 Interviewer ~ Peraon interviewed Re$ccaBi?own Hill~ Brinkl~,ey, ~k~.p~as . ~ge___ ~ I was born October 18, 1859 in northeast Missiasippi in Chickaaaw County. It was cloae to the F~lton Road to Houston, Mississippi. My folke belong to C. B. Baldwin. After mancipation papa stop calling himself ~acob Baldwin and called himself Jacob Brown in his own pa a name )Lei~a waa named Catherine Brown. The same man owned them both. They had twelve children. They lost a child born in 1866. 1 had two brothera sent to Louisiana aa refugees. The place they wa~ 8eUt to waa taken by the Yankees and they Iaa taken and the Yankees made soldiers out of them. Charlie cUed in 1922 in Mobile, Alabama and Lewis after the War joined the United States army. I ~-~- never saw any gra~idparenta. Mama was born in Baltimore and her mother waa born there too aa I understood them to say. Mama s father was a ithite c~2Th~i~. He was a cooper by trade. Hi8 naine waaJ ohn Abbot. He sold Harriett, my grandma, and kept mama and her brother. Then he married a white woman and had a white family. Her brother died. That left her alone to wait on that white family. They cut her hair off. She hated that. She loved her long straight black hair. Then her papa, J~o1m Abbot (Abbott?), died. Her brother run ofr and waa leaving on a ship on the Potomac River. A woman lost her truxzk. They was fiahing for it and found mama s brother drowned. He had feil overboard too. ~&ama took a bucket on her a~ to keep the atealera froen gagging her. She knowed if she had a bucket or baaket they would not bother,

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2. 268 they would know she went ~otit on turn (errand) and would be protected. They didn t bother her th.n~ 8h. imnt down to the nigger trader s ~rard~ to telk awhile but ahe waa making her way o~t then. Sometimaa she went down to th.e yard to laugh and talk with ao~ ahe knowed down there. She asid them stoalera would kill em and ineect (dIssect) em. ~tt they didntt get her. :~~t might as well, ~T1m Ii1 .iaina owued that nigger yard. Re put her on a sailboat namd Big Rwni~bxiee. She was on there hard sailing, she said, twenty4our daya and nights. ~im Williams stole ber On that sailboat is where she seen my papa. ~ When they ot to New Orleana a white man from Baltimore was passing. He seen my rnezna. He ask her about her papers. ~e told him she had been stole. He said without papers urn Williams couldn t sell her. He told Jint Williams he better not sell that woman. Jim Iflhlama knowed ehe was crazy about my papa. He hi~ him out and ask her it she wanted to go with him. He got pay for both of them .~ ~?ed out. It was better for him than it he owned her. When they had two children, Yim Williams coins back out to Chambra County, Alabama where he had them hired out. He ask her if he would agree to let him seil her. He was going to sell papa and the two children. She said she had seen them whooped to death in the yards because they didn t want to be sold. ~ie waa scared to contrary him. She had nobody to take her part. So she l t him sell lier with papa and the two children. Jim Williams sold ber and papa and the two children to Billy Gates of Mississippi. J~im Vilhiams said, Don t never separate Henry and Hannah cause I don t have the papers for Hannah. Then they lived in the prairies eigbt.en miles from Houston, where Billy Gatse lived. Mama done wail. ~e worked and they treated her nice. Eight of us was born on that place Includin .

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3. 269 1 waa raisd up ~ i~ good living conditlona and k.pt myaeit so tiU twelve years ago this *ext Auguet th~a creeping neuritis (paralasis) o~e on. I raised my niece. I cooked, washed and Ironed, and went to the field in field tix~. ~ Master Billy Gates daughter married Cyrus Briaco Baldwin. 11e waa a lawyer. He cive mama, papa and one child to thee. Maater Billy Gates daughter died and left Miss Beesis. Mr. C. B. ~ldw1n married again~ H. went to war in the ? Six t~y Crowd. Miss Beesie Baldwin married Bill Buchannan at Okolona, Lssisaippi. Mwaa ient and cooked for 1~er. They belong to her, She was good as she could be to her and papa both. On. ti~ the overseer was going to whip them both. lias Bessie said, Tell Mr. Carry.i dine to corns and let us talk it over. They did and she said, Give Mr. Carrydine his breakfast and let him 8 ~ never got no ~ippin~. 1w was whits as any white wc~an and papa was ~y color (light mulatto) After freedcmi they lived as long as they lived at Houatofl and Okolona, Mississippi. She said ehe l ft Maryland in 1839. Some blue dressed Yankees cone to our shack and told mei~ to bake him soins bread. I held to ber dress. She baked them aci~a They put it in thur nap sacks. That was my first experience seeing the Yankees, They come back and coins back on and on. One time they come back hunting the silverware. They didn t find it. It was in the old. seep well. The slaves wasn t going to tell them where it was. le washed out of the seep well and used the cistern water to drink. It was good silver. They put it in sacks, several ot them, to make it strong. Uncle Gilea drapp.d it doiirt in there. He was old colored man we eli called Uncle Guss, Es was no kin to ~. He was good as could be. I loved him. M. end his girl played to~.ther aU. the time. H.r n&i was Roxana. Je built frog houses

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4. 270 in the sand end put cool sand on our stomachs. We would 1., under 14g: trees and watch and listen to the birds. Iuien Mr. Billy Gates died they give Henry, my youngest brother, to his son, John Gate.. Henry1 a big strong fellow, could raise a bal., of cotton over his head. One time the Yankees co~ took the meat and twenty ~five cows and the best nnilea. They left some old plugs. They had two mares in fold. Uncle Giles told them one mare had buck~~eye poison and the other distemper. They left them in their stalls. We had to tote all that stuff they give out back when. they was cone. All they didn t take off they handed out to the slaves. There was some singi? ~ didn t carry their provisions back to the ~noke... house. everybody else di~ They kept on till they s~pt us eli o t of victuals. The slaves had shacks ~ip on the hill. There was six or eight pretty houses all niet. Mr. Gates house was one of them. Freedom capt. Gehu come and. sent for all the slaves to come to Mr. John Gates. We all met there. He said it was free times now. We lived on and raised peas, corn, pumpkins, potatoes. The Yankees come and took off sonie of it. That was the year of the surrender. Mama moved off the hill in a man s home what moved to town to look after the house for them. It was across the road fr i Master Tohn Gates? house. We worked for the Gates a long, long time after that. We worked for the Baidwins and around till the old. heads aU dead. I come to Clarendon, Arkansas, eleven o clock, eleventh of May 1890. I have no children, I raised my sister s baby. She died. I live wid her now. Sh s got grandchildren. I get ten dollars from the welfare a month. I buy what I needs to eat with lt. I helps out a sight. I had a baby girl. It died an infant.

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5. 271 The place they ref~ugeed Charlie and Lewis was to ~ ~t~i~ia. It was about the first part ofb the country the Yankees took, Ku K1ux..~JThey never bothered. us but tu 18 ?6 I seen them pass. My nephew was a little boy, Ke said ihan they passed there was J aok S1au~,hter on his horse, He knew the big horse. They went on. The colored insu had left their wives and children at hcme and. went up to Red B~.td Church (colored). ~ e 808fl five pass but others. joined on. They had bad times. A colored man killed a Li Klux named Tcm Middlebrook, One man got his foot cut oft wid a ax, Some called them white caps. I was scared of whatever they called the irselves. The younger set of folks seems more restless than they used to be. .1 noticed that since the last war (World War), They ain t never got settled. The women is bad as the men now it seems. Times is better than I ever had them in my 11Th.

[Interview with Hill, Tanny] 273 272

30699 . . 272 Interviewer~~ I ~ . ~_~aa Irene ~1~et tso~ ~ ~ . ~ 1~rson Interviewati ~ . ~ -~ Tannj ~tl1~ Brink1ey~ Arkansas .~ . ~ ~ 4Age~ ~ No record of age ~ ~ ~ ~ 1* Uncle Solomon we ai . called him but he iasn t no kin to us, ho was the funniest old man I ever heard tell of. Re was a slave. Ke belong to sorrel Crockell I heard him say. Re didn t go to no wer. ~When the Jar ended he was a fisherman in Arkansas. lie used to tie his own seit to a tree keep the fiait. from pilling him in the river. fle caught big fish in the early times. He d come to our house ~he~ I was nothing bit a child and bring nough fish for all our aipper. Ma would cook em. Pa would help hi~ scale em. We d love to see hi~ co~. He lived thater way from house to houes. NOne tias he made i~ mad. I never had no more ues for him. We d give him tc~natoes and onions. He told us to go bring him thate? water~lou out of the garden. He cut and eat it before us. Never give us a bite. He was saying, You goiner get your back aiid belly beat black and L I didn t know what he was saying. Grandma tound the watermelon was gone I owned up to itS. Ma got switches and whooped us. I was singing what he was saying. Grandma tole ne what he meant. Prcm~ that on we had no more ot his good flsh. Interviewer s Co~ent Large, medium black.

[Interview with Hines, Elizabeth] 274 273

273 Intervisier Peraon interviewed Ags~ --~L~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I W~8 born J~anuary 10, 1868, in Baton Rouie, Louisiana. I cane here. I can t read or write My brother.4n law told ~ that I ~8 born three years eiter the War on J anuary tenth. My niother a name was Sera Cloady. My father s name was Square Cloady. I don t remember the namea of any or my grand people. Tea I do; my tather a mother was nenied Bertha because I called my daughter after her. She muet have been in the Square tI~i1y because that was hie na~. WI had four brothere and sisters. Three of them I don t know any thing about. I have never seen them. My sister, Rachael Fortune, suckb~d me on her breast. That is her married name. Betore she was married her name was Baohael Bennett. lier rather and mine was not the seas. We was just half sisters. W~ have the same mother though. My rather was halt Indian and hers was pure-blooded Indian. They are all mean folks. Poop .. say I ein mean too, but I am not moan--unless they li. on me or scmethin~. My mother died when I was three years old. ~h11dren three yara old didn t have as much sense then as they do now. I didn t know my mother was laid out until I got to be a woman. I didn t have sense enough to know ehe was dead. My sister was crying and we asked her what she was crying about. I don t know ths n~e ot my mother s old master. Tea I do, my mother s old master was named Laycock. 11e had a great big farm. a--. ~ ~ ~ -~ Ilizabeth limes . 1117 W.rt.eiitli1 Stre ~ ~ R ~ rka~a

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2, 274 He wa8 building a gas house so that he could have a light ail night and work nigger5 day and night, but peace came berore he could get it finished and use lt. God took a hand in. that thing~ I have seen the ~s houas myself. I used to tote water home tram there in a bucket. It was cool as ice-water. The ~s house was as big round as that market there (about a haLt block). My father served in the army three years and died at the age of one hundred ten years about twenty years ago as near as I can remember. That is the reason I left hc~ because he died. fie asrved in the War three years. He was with the Yankees. Plenty of these old white folks ilil know him by the name ot Square Cloady. The name of his company was Cc~npany K I don t know the name of his regiment. He got his pension as long as he lived, His last pension came Just before he died. I turned it back to the courthouss because it is bad to fool with Uncle Sam. They wrote for my name ~tt when I told them I was married they wouldn t send me anything. I didn t know to tell them that my husband was dead. I was married when I was about twenty-seven and my husband died more than three years before my father did. My father lived to see me the mother of my last child ; my husband didn t When my husband was dying, I couldn t see my toes. I was pregnant. My husband died in the year of the great tornado. The time all the churches were blown down. I think it was about 1915. (Storm time in louisiana.) ni don t know what my mother did in slavery. I don t think she did anything but cook. She was tine in children and they buys women like that you know. My sister was a water toter. My tather raised cotton and corn and hogs and turkeys. His trade was farming before the War. i don t ~iow how he happen.d to get in the army but he was in it three years.i C~L ~ ~ 3.

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3. 2~5 Hou~ FUriiitur. eM bed ~Laycock s tara was out in the country about tour miles from Baton Rouge, Louieiana1~ Soies of the slaves lived in log houees and ec~ in big old boxed housse. Moit of them had two rocsa~ They had nothing ~t four poet beds and chairs like this I am settin down In (a little cane chair). :t reckon it is cansulooks like it ii. They had hcaemade chairs before the War, boxes, and benchel. The boards were often bought. Bat nothing sise. They et greens and pickled pork. iiy father got tired of that and he would raise ~ Picklsd pork and corn bread! My father never told in what his maater was to him, whether he was good or man. Re got ti s. early because hs was in the army. K. didn t run away. me soldiers cams and got him end carried hiw off and trained II1*, ~ ~ ~ I just know what ~y father told me because I vasa t born. He served his fail time and thsn he was dischargsd. Es got an honorabis diackar~. Es had a wound in the leg ~ers he was shot. I got along all right supporting ays.lf by planting cotton until last year whsn the doctor stopped ~. I took care of my father end th I~rd Is taking Care of i~. I a~ week and .till haie that giddy head ~t not as bad as I used to haie it. Opliiiona Sc~s of the young people do very well ~it some of them ain t got no m~nnera and don t cars what they do. I eu scarsd for ths~. The Men abois ain t scared and he is going to cut them down0

Ex-slave. 277 276

30359 FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Naine of interviewer Martin ~ Barker Subjeot~c~SIave -~~~-- Story son of J~artha and Peterffirrton. Caine from N,C. about 12 years ago, at close of Civil ~ ar. Mother had nine children, she belonged to 1~. Sam ~Iinton. At close of war mistis called US to her, said we were free and could go. So we went away for about a year, but came back. Sorry we were free. ~Te saw about 2000 soldiers, Never went to school. :~ent to white church on plantation. White preachers said, servants, obey your ~arster. I was valued at ~8OO.OO. ~Then I was a small boy I lay at marsters feet and he would let us play with his feet. He always had shiny shoes and:we i~ig~ers would keep rubbiiig thorn so they wxild shine more. A~L5 I grew older, I cleaned the yard, later helped pick cotton. I am a Baptist. Have behaved.myself. Have prayer meeting at my home. During the war we had prayer meetings at the different houses. Pine Bluff District 276 Chas. Hinton

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277 2, Miss Mary would 0x1 the plantations. ~~fe prayed to be se-t free. Turned wash pots down in the house to keep the sound down so white folks wouldn t hear us singing and praying to be set free. Overseer would whip rieggers when out of humor. always tell them not to mistreat her help. Times were so hard during slave times, white marster took them into the bottoms and hid them, so they wouldn t run off with the Yankee soldiers. Talk of war got so hot, brought us out of the woods and put us in wagons and to ok us and de older people off to Texas. ~Ve got up at ~M, work all day until 9 or 10 at night. On Sunday we worked if it was necessary. I was tough and strong. I cot~ld otiCrun a wild footed and bare headed. 1e would have a country dance once in awhile.Someone would play the banjo. L~iss ~ry, white mistis called us all in one day and opened a large trunk. ~he showed us money, gold and silver, saying that we had all helped to r~ke it for them. Thats the first money I evor saw. animal, bare- Chas. ilinton

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2~8 3. Before Christmas we killed hogs. Our white folkz d dnt like any one wearing blue olothes . Thought they were Yarilcees, and that meant freedom for us niggers. Men in blue clothes came and put a rope around m~ rnarsters neck, took him all around the nigger cabins and asked where he hid them. He told them, Texas. They said, get them and free them or they would hang him. He sent after them and everything was airight. I though my white marster was God. lie took s lok and died. I heard the other slaves saying he oonmiitted suicide because he had lost all his money. In those times my father saw ray mother, decided he wanted her for his woman. 11e toi his white folks and they fixed up a cabin for them to live in together. ~~1as no ceremony. Had nigger r:iidwives for babies. I knows every lucky silver pieces of money. I believe in lucky pieces of silver. I is a dreamer, always been dat way. I have seen my bright days ahead of me, in dreams and visions. If I hears a woman s voice calling me, a calling me in my sleep I is bound to move outa dat house. I dont keer wher I goes, I is got tu go some whars. Charles Hinton RFD 5 Old nv. Rd. Information by____ Place of residence Occupation Age 83.

[Interview with Hinton, Charlie] 280 279

~ ~ ~ . ~ 2~9 Interviewer ~Berni ce Bowden. ~ ~ S Person interviewed Charlie Hinton (o) Age 89 Haine O1dR1vorRoad~ Pine luff,Ark. Oh Lordy,lady,I ~w~s pickin cotton dunn the war. I wae here before the first gun waa fired. When the war canie they sent my mother and father and all the other big folks to Texas and left us undergrowth here to make a crop. ~My mother s name was Martha and my father was named Peter Hiriton. Now I m just goin to tell you everything- I m not ashemed. I ve got the marks of slavery on me . My old inarster and miss Mary, they was good to me but the ol Toook wo~tan throwed me off the porch and injured zay back. I ain t never been able to walk just right since. t, Now, here s w~iat I reir~ember Our marster, we thought he was God. They pretty near raised us with the pigs. I remember they would cook a great big oven of bread and then pour a pan full of butternilik or olabber and we d break off a pieoe of bread and get around the pan of milk jest like pige. Yes ma~,they did that. Let s see now,what else oo~ku red. Old iriarster would have my father and Uncle Jacob and us boys to run foot races. You knowthey was testin us and I know I was valued to be worth five hundred dollars. But my folks was good to me. They wouldn t have no overseer what would be cruel. If he was cruel he would have to be gone from there.

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2. 280 One time old marster say Charlie how come this yard eo dirty?~ You know there would be a little track around. I said,will you give me that old gray horse after I clean it and he said Yes . So I cal . up the boys and we d clean It up,and then the old gray horse was mine. It was just the old worn out stock you understand. I ~want to tell you when the old folks got sick they would bleed them,and iivhen the young folks got sick they give you some blue mass and turin you loose. It.~. remember when old marster s son Sam went to war and got shot in the leg. Old xnarster was cryin Oh, my Sam is shot . Be got in a sruminage you know. He got well but he never could straighten out his leg. When freedom ooine,I heard em prayin for the men to come back home, Miss Mary called us all up and told us our age and said, You all are free and can go where you want to go,or you can stay here Oh yes, the Ku Klux use to run my daddy if they caught him out without a pass,but I remember he could outrun them- he was atout as a mule. I been here so long and what little I ve picked up is just a little fireside learnin I can read and write my name. I can remember when we thought a newspaper opened out was a bed-cover. But a long time after the war when the public school come about,I had the privi.. lege of going to school three weeks. Yes maa,I was swift and I think I ~rent nearly through the first reader. . I am a great lover of the Bible Calvary Baptist Church. I m glad to give you some kind of idea bout my age and life. I really sin glad. Goodbye. and I ia a member of Mount

[Interview with Hite, Ben] 282 281

281 Bo~den~. P~L - ~ ~ ~tS W--1 _ ~ ~ ~ ~ _- _ ~ ~ l_~*J__~_J__ ~ 1515 Ohio Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Interviewer Preon interviewed~ ~ ~wo11, I didn t Z&Ctly live in slavery tImes. I was born in 1864, the 4th of ~Tu1y. They aaid it was on the Wi11i~ Moor. place tour miles trom~ Chattanooga but I was in Georgia when I cc~enced to remember ~ in Fort Valley -~ just a little town. ~1 been in Arkansas sixty-five years the first clay o January. to the old Post of Arkansaa in 18?3. I been right here on this apot three years. Made a many a bale of cotton on the ~rrow places Went to school thre weeks right down here in Linku& County. I could read a little but couldn t write any mUch. eI been married to this ~if forty years. My tust wife dead. RI livei in Linkum County sight years and been in Jefferson County ever since. !Thr.e years ago I waa struck by a car and I been blind two years. I just zern the light. When I was able to be about I used to vision it would be like to be blind and now I know. Tee m, I just come here on the eve ot the breekin up. I seed th Yankess in O.or ta after freedc.~. They called e~ Bluejacket.. All my life I have farmed -~ famed. Cc~ forty~m can what

[Interview with Hodge, Betty] 283 282

. 282 ~ . Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Bet~,yHodge Age ~ ~ . jia~fl., ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ . Uncle BI ily HI 1 1 us ed to vi s lt us. He was ~ une le. He was a slave and one thing I remembers hearing him tell was this: He was the hostler for his old master. The colored folks was having a jubilee. He wanted to go. He stol one of the carriage horses out rode it. It started snowing. He said he went out to see bout the horse and it seemed be dom all right. After a while here come somebody and told him that horse he rode was dead. He Id t believe it, but went out there and it was sho dead. He said he took that horse . by the tail and started runnin up the road. They drug that horse home and put him in the stable where he belong at. It was snowing so bard and fast they dn t see their hands f0 em he said. It snowed so much it covered up where they drug the horse and their tracks. He s aid the snow saved his life . They found the hors e dead and nev~ er thought bout him having him out at the jubi lee He s aid none of em ever told a word bout it but for long time he was scar d to death fear the old master find out bout it. Grandma Frances was born in West Virginia. She was papa s am, She purt nigh raised . Mama and papa went to the field to work. She cooked and done the housework. She had a good deal of Indian blood in her. I heard em say. She had high cheeks and the softest, prettiest hair. She told about the stars falling.

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.. 2.283 She said they never hit the ground, that they was like shooting stars cepting they all come down like. Everybody was seared to death. She talked a good deal about Haywood County ~ I believe that was In Tennessee - that was whore they lived dunn of the war. Papa made her a livint long as she lived. When she got old noises bothered her, so then we growed up and she lived by hers e 1f in front o f our hous e in a house. Grandma Frances and our family come to Arkansas reckly after the Civil War. They come with Mr. John and Miss Olivia Cooper. Miss Olivia was his wife, but Miss Presh was a old maid. Folks used to think it was sort of bad if a woman dldn t marry. Thought she have no chances. It sort of be something like a disgrace if a woman was a old maid. Don t seem that-a-way no more. I never heard much about Miss Presh but I heard mama tell this: Grandma Mary Lea come on a visit to see mama and she brought her some sweet potatoes in a bag. Had nothing else and wanted to bring her something. Miss Olivia picked out the biggest ones and took ein. Said she was mean. Said she had a plenty of everything. Just left maaiia the smallest ones. She said Miss Olivia was stingy. Mama was the house girl and nurse and they had a cook. Mama was a girl then she be long to the Cooper s but mania belong to somebody else. She hadn t married then. One day Miss Olivia called her and she didn t get there soon as Miss Olivia wanted her to. Miss Olivia say, You getting mean . You like your ma She said I jus t like you if I m mean. But Miss Olivia didn t understand it. She ask the cook and the cook told her she was talking to her. She told Mr. John Cooper to whoop em but he didn t. He kind of laughed and ask the cook what Lucy said to Miss Olivia. Miss Olivia told him

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3. 2~34 if he didn t whoop em both she was going back home. He told her he would take her and she wouldri t corne back ne ithex when she left. He didn t whoop neither one of em and she never left hirn till she died, cause I been over to Des Arc and seen all of ein since I corne in this world. Mama was Lucy Lea till she married Will Holloway, my papa. Then she married Isarel Thomas the preacher here at Hazen. He come from Tenne s s e e with old Dr Haz en (whit e man ) . Marna s mama was 1~1ary Lea; she lived out here at Green Grove, I don t know where she was born, but she was owned by the Lea s round De s Ar o She come and s tay a month or two wi th us on a vis it Old folks wasgreat hands to talk bout olden times. I forgot bout all they told. . r In old times folks had more principal, now they steal and fight and loud as they can be. Folks used to be quiet, now they be as loud as they can all the time. They dance and carouse all night long - fuss and fighti Some of our young folks got to change The time s have char~ged s o much and sti 1 . changing so fast I don t know what goin to be the end. I study bout it a b t.

[Interview with Holloman, Minnie] 286 285

)O~. ~ ~ e- #64? ~ Interviewer Misa Irene Robertson . Person interviewed Minx~ie Ho11omon~, R~i3.D.~ ~scoe Arkansas Ago~ ~ ~ ~ .~ ~. ~- ~ ~ ~ My parenta was ~1sie and Manuel Yones. They had five children. The Jones was farmers at Hickory Plaina. ~&untie waa a cook ai~d her girl, i~uiza, was a weaver and a spinner and worked abou.t in the house. I heard auntie talk about the aoldiers come axi~d make them cook up everything the had and et it up faster en it took er to fix it ready for em to giittie down. ~ms her very words. They took the last barrel er flour and the last scrap er meat they had outen the sxaokehouse~ Uncle Sebe J~ones was Masaa 3~ones boss and wagoner (wagon man and overseer). Auntie said Uncle Sebe drunk too much. He drunk long as he lived cause old Massa J one a trained to that. Uncle Whit 1 onea was more pious and his young massa learned him to read and write. He was onliest one of the Jones niggers knowed how er had any learning er tall, The women folks spun. and wove ail winter while the nights be Pa said Massa .Tones was pretty fair to his black folks. He fed em pretty good and seen they was kept i~arm in rainy bad weather. He watch see jf~ the men split plenty wood to keep up the fires, J~ones didn t allow the neighbors to slash up his black folks. He whooped them if he thought they needed it and he knowed when and where to stop. Mama didn t b long to the 881U8 people.

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2. 286 Grai~dma was a native of South Ca Itha. Uer ne~ was Jialindy Portner. She died over at Alex Kazen s place. ~ie cc~ to a~ of hex people . after the War. I think ma coene with her. Ker own old miatre.s oc~ sit on a cuahion oxe day. The parrot aey, Cake under ouhion, burn her boom Grai~thna mMe the parrot fly ou off ~it the cake wa~ warm and it wai mashed flat under the cushion when she got up. &ie took it to her little children. She said piece of cake wa~ a rarity. They had plenty corn bread, peas and meat. ~Grandiga said after they had a baby it would be seben weeks b f ore they would l.t them put their hands in a washtub. They all had tasks in winter tim. They sit by the fire and talk ax~d sing. Ma said in slavery a girl had a baby and ber hugging around a. tree. Said her mistress oo~ to the cabin to see about her and brought corn. bread and pea pota.liajior. Said that would kill folks but it dn t hurt here Pa b long to the loues and Ihitlocks both ~it he never told us about ever being sold. Re told us about it took nearly two weka one ti~ in the bad weather to ~et the boat end get provisions. His wagon was loaded and when the rain and fresza set in it caught him. Ko like never got back. His white folks was proud when he got back.w

Ex-slave stories: birth, parentage story. 288 287

1 !~ 30611 28v. POLU~ORZ SUB3S IS ~. of Iab SITiSWSI -~ S. S Taylor Subject -~ Ixii$leve Stories : ~. B. Rolloway (DSd~ ~- Birth, Parentage Story ** * *** * ** **** ** ** *** ** * *** * *** ** ~~1 n.Yer lived in the country. I livid in town. But ezetimea ~ father wouldgointo the ~ountry to hunt and I would go with him p ~ ~ born in Austin County, !ort Valley, Georgia, .105 miles below At1ant~ne way, and by Macon it ~u1d be 140 I was thirteen y eara old ~ when the war began and ~veuteen when it ended. I waa born the fifteenth day ot February, 1848. ~ f, My mother was a nurse and midwife My fat her wee a fini abed ineohanici~ i: never had to do any * rk until after the civil wer, but I ~a Juat oresy about railroading and wint to railroading early. I railrOaded ill ~ lite. I did some draying too and e lot of concreting too. I, ~ was . born free. Ther weri~n t ao many free liMera in Georgia. None that I knew owned an7 elavee. I never heered of a~ owning a~ eisysa. My mothr isa a full bloo&sd~ Iherokee wo~nen, ~ and n~ tether was a dark ~ Span. isrd. ~ ( Rdsd~ or ~Psppy~ Holloway is a fin. looking old white ~ ~ ~{~ _j . . F~ow. evidence of Ihite and Indiin bloo~d; however, Negro blood showa.4 I ~n the only one out of twelve children that can t talk n~ molh lar~uage and don t knowi~y father e. I r ~nber the Indian war whoop,, and the ~ar dance ~ ueed to do that n~yaelf. When t hey run the mdi ana out of Georgia into Florida, my mother nevr did go. She ~a one hun~ dred seven years old when ehe died. Thu inf~iraution given by H. B. Holloway C Dad or Peppy ) Pis.. of residence 1524 Valentine Street, Little Rook, Lrksnaae Oecupation ~ Old 1g. Pension 1g. 89 IP*ilroeding* dz aying, et..

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288 . POIfl~ ~Z SUBZE~S Neine or Interviewer ~- S. S. Taylor Subject ~ Ix Slave : Marriage, Breedizg, Weddings, Ssparationa Slave Sales Story 11,A~ You know, there were n t no marriages like now with Niggere ~- just like if you end~ your wife owned a men and I owned a wo~n, if your men gant ed to marry, he got oonsent from you and my women wou~.J get consent from me, And t hen they would marry ~ a~d I either got t o buy your slave or you got to buy mine. Sometimes the white folks wouiCn t went you to msrrp. They diCii t torce nobody to merry. They might force you to merry if both of you had the ssme meeter, but not i~ they belonged to ~1tferent masters. They were crazy about slave that had a lot of children. Niggers did n t separate In slave times because they never was mer--.. ned except by word of mouth There was a I ot 01 old souls t hat cerne out of slavery tintes that lived together ei~ raised children that never was marri ed ~ except by iord of mouth) just got toget her But they made out better end were setter husbands and wives and raised better families than theydonow. ~ Sometimes folks would get seperated when the slave treders would sell thwi, aixi sanetimee families would get separated when their white folks died or would run i~to debt. Slave Salsa They had a slave block in eorgia. You see tt~ey would go to Virginia and get the people that they would bring across the wet er -- regular Africans. Samet lines they would refugee~h~m tour or five hundrid miles ** * * ** * ** *** ** **** ***** This iriforattion given by H. B. (Dad or Peppy) Holloway Place of residence lt524 Valentine Street, Little Rook, Arkansas Occupation ~ Railroe*, Draying -- Pension now Age 89 2

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3 289 1OLKLO~ SIJB3JOTS ~ne of In~tsryiswsr S. S. Teylcr Sub$ct ~ b~$1s~s: ~ Silsa Story j~ ~ORE T~IEY woui~ a~r m~ ca~c~ ~ro ~ ~i n~./ sometime. a wan~n ~auiii have s child in hez~ arma. A man would buy th a~thsi~ and wouiCit t want the child. And then somit imea a ~asn would holler out : Don t ash that pieksninziy. ~ (You know they dlfn t osu. coiorsci ciiiiir.n not~ in but Pi4sninni.a than. ) ~I want that litt Le piokeninny. IA Md the mot hsi woui~ go one way and ths ahi 4 ~u1d go the other.The ~ther w~i 4 be aore~ing end hollering, and of o~se, the child woniCn t i. .eyin~ nothin b.~. cause it diCntt know iiat was goin on.~ They had s sale block in ~ home ( Tort Valley, e ~ia), end I used to go end see the Nigger. sold often. 8 ~ few wai n t worth nothin at ai ~- just abOut a hundrd dohlrn. But they generally ran about fies ocr six kundred dollars. . Scmie of th~ would ~rtng thousands of dollars. It ~tsp.nds on their looks. The trader ~uld 8ey ~ ~ those ahouldar; look at those muaohsa.n lit Someons would holler out A thOUSSAd dollars. Then anothsr woull hoUer out. Jifteen hundred. ~ They went hik kcrsea. A fine built w~n would briag a lot of money. A wo~n that birthed children cost e heap. Virginia was ~iars ths slaves would bi brought tint. Ths sjave traders wou:Ld go thre and get thee aal tek. th across the country in droves Just like you take a drove of ostt s. They would s l . theM as they would corns to gals blocks. The slaves would be undreaasd fran the aloulders to the ist. This t~tormition girsa by K. B. (Did orPippy ) uoUo~ !~Ies:ot ~ ~ ~ ~ r~L~flU*i ~ ~ *_~t Ai~

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4 290 FOI2 ~C ~E SUB;rEcTs Neiiie of inlerviewer 8/ S. Taylor 3ubject ~- Ex-.Slave: Houees, Food, Clothes Story ******* *********************** The slaves lived in log huts on the pirrtetions. Some men. would weetherbo~rd them. They did n t put eny ceiling i~. You could lay back in your bed and see the moon end stars shining through. Some got good food and 801fleQf the owners would make the Jiggers steal their food frc i other folks. Old Myers Green would meke his Niggers steal s, and he wou L~ say, I~ you get caught, I ll kill you. One or two of th i~ jet themselves get caught ~.d he would whip the~i. That was to save him fvxin paying f ~ it. They coulCn t do anything to you but whip you no- how. But th~j could make him pay for . They used homemade clothes made out of homemade cotton cloth. They would spin the cotton to a thread. When they would get so many bro~&ches of it, they would ~ake it into cloth. J~. broach w~s just ~ lot 0fb thread wound around a stick. They would teke it to the wheel ~nd n~ke the cloth. ~hem women used to have tasks: ~ 8pinnin~, weavin~g, dressmaking, end ~O 0X1. Sonetiines the~f would have five and six spinning wheels run ning before they would get to the weaving. I don t kno~i who m~de the clothes. But you know th~ Eggers made them. They used to learn some sieves hc~ to do some things, - the right way. sus like they learned th~nselves. There was plenty of nice seam- stresses. The white folks used to make th~i make clothes for their cliiidren. The white folks woul~n t do nothin . They would~h t even turn down the bed to get in it. This information given by E. B. Holloway ( Dad or Pappy) Occupat ion Railroading and drayiz~g Age 89 lot workiiig now. Place. of residence 1524 Veientine Str.et, Little Rock, ~kaiieas

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.5 291 J aLlumE au&i~s :~me of Interwismer 8. 5. Taylor Subject -a. ~8lsTs: Age., Amue~ents Btoey ** ** ** ** ** ** Oolored folks in alavsiy times didfl t know how cM they ma. When you would buy s drove of derkisa, you would go by what they would teU you but they diA t ~now~ow old they ~s. Some ot thoe liggers they bought frcm Thiss wou fn t take nothin n ither. They would y: Ms goinho wiaat you as~o, but me aint goin to get no whipping1t. ~ when they whipped them, there ~a trouble. The i~atera kept recarda of ages of thoae born in their oars. Scme of them did. Some of th~ did a~t kijp nothin . Zuat like pso~ \~ t;~ pis no~d.eye Raised thm 11k. pigs eu~ hogs. Yna did~n t oars. :t-~:~~ ~ ; ~ >~w ~ Amusements There used to bi plsnty of colOred tolk ttdd .are. I~ncing, candy pulling, quilting, ~- that was about the only tun they ~ul& hays. Corn shucking, too. They used t o snjcy that They would get on ~p of that pile ai4 start singing ~ the ihite folks teed to like t~t sometimes tbey imuld ahuok corn all night long. And they would aing nd~oat too. . The ,hsd ihat th.qcall.d the old4sahioned cotillion dan S~ )p J~ partners - head, toot eM two aidsa ~ to~ir man and tour i~n - each ~n dancd with hia psrtms . Music by the ttddlre. I u.sd to dines that. Lt the quilting, they d get loin and quilt. Thi boy. ath young men isuld be the~ e too aM they w ild thread the n.d~a. and laugh aM talk iith the girl., and the ~~en wsild goisip. This intci ~tjo* ~i~en by E. B. EoUoy ( Dad o~ hpp~) Pisse it r.d~d.nss 15*4 TS1t**S 8trs.~ LItfl. lock, 4rksm*s Oss*pstioa ~sirurly rsilroMar, sya -~ Penato* now 1g. 89

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~OLKL~E StiBJT~C~S Ne~ns of Interyiewer S. 8. Taylor Subj oct -~ krtt.tsemant a Christmas, Runaway Sieve Ex.Slaye Story **** ********** *****~*** The masters would go there too and look at them and. see what they d d4nd how they d do ax~1 make them do~ They ~uld do that et the candy pullin too, 8nd anythix~g else. The candy pulling ~- there they d cook the cendy and a man and a girl ~uld pull candy together. Look to me like they enjoyed the corn shucking as rauch es they did anything else. cmri etmas They d give t ime to ssl~brst s Christmas t irne . ey d dance end so on like that. But they ~rked~ th~ from ~ New Years dey to Christn~e Eve nigbt the next year. The good white people would give them a pig and have them make merry. They d make n~rry over it like we do nov. That s where it all come train. ~ ( Run.~Lway Slaves F,~. X:> (j- tTh - ~ ~ ~ ~ - - I seen e z~ny.ia runf.away slave I ye seen the hounds oat oh them too. You could hear the hounds all hours of the night. Some Nigger wa s gone. Some oi1 then iculd run away froen the field And ~e of t hen would slip out at nighb. I used to mock them hounds. The first hound would say o-oo..oo, He-~e-e~~ he e-e ee ~ I The others would say, . ~Put im up P~~t i~ up Ptit im up Put im up Put im up. My mot her would laugh at n~. The lesd~.houn.d howled, and the catch dog would ~n t say nothin but you could hear t he sound of his feet The lead hound ** ** ** * ** * ** * This intormation given by H. B. Holloway ) Dad or Peppy ) Plade ot Residence 1524 Balsntine Street, Little Rock, Arkansas Occupet ion Formerly railroader, drayman ~- Pension now. Age 89 00 ) ~

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F 293 : POIE11~I SUBJI !S Ma~ ot I4.rvi ~er 3. 5. Taylor Subj sot ~. 3x*al$Te: Runaway Sls~es ; Pateroles; ~ooqj Masteni; Mean Ma&. tare Story ** ** *** *** *** *** *** ** * * * * didn t catch the Nigger, but be would just follow hin. Wh~ he caught up with him, he woul4 step aaide ar let the catch dog get hi~ if he is1~n t tred. ~ . ?aterolea The paterol.. were for Niggers just like police end sksr*ffs ~s~s foi white folks. They wane just poor white folks. When a Nigger ~ out frOEn t1~e plantation at night, he had to hav s 4 L~a If the pate.~ erolse ...n hiw, thsy ~uld stop ~kia sad ask toe hie pesa. If n hs did . a t bave it, he d ~s likely get a basting. I ~. fris and di( n t hs~e no psis. Soaetiaaa they ~uld stop a, but 1 never had no trouble ~ ~ ~) s with sea. I ~s a boy then, end everybody knsw~ ~. ~ ~ - -~. Good Masters Nan like Colonel Troutmen, Major Holmes, end Preschen Russell .Th~. Russell -- they~ dlfn t whip their liggeri eM diCn t allow no one else to whip th~. Theiy hsd~little guardhouse on the pleetat ion end they ould look th~ up in it. You~d better not hit one of tbair Nigg.re. The~ d tek. a pole or something end r~m you ragged. Mean Master. White folks ~as cruel in slavery tims. You see I ~e free and oould ~ where I vented too, ai~ I es d a lot. Old Myar Green would tek: a Nigger and tie hie feet to one side of s railroad track end tie his haMs tothe oth.r aids, end~ip him till th~ blood ran. T~isE~ti~ . ************************** TAis infomstion given by K. B. llcUoy ( I~d or Peppy) Place of Tesidansi 15M TILISItiaS Street, Little Rock Oee*pstion LiE~ly retZ~Sder lad drsjmsn Pseslo* *v 4g. 89

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8 294 ?0LKL. z SUBJICTS Mens of Intei,~ ~ ~. ~ . Subject ~ Ix*Slsy.: Mesn Maitirs; Paterols.; Mied Bloods Stoz~ ~ Then he would take him down to the aioke house anS rub him down with lard end red pepper. Rub plenty in, ~ he ~uld say, ~Don t let him spoi1.~ Then I hsve seen th~ take.~ i4i~s t en rail fenef and set it dom on a Nigger s n.ok end ~iip hiii. If he~would rers end tust and try to ;Juinp up, he would breek his neck. ~1 :PatM ~t$~ ~ ~e siso on psis 9) .1r~ ~ night ~LSfl ms and ~y mothsr wee. caning from toun, my aotb~sr had a d~~ijohn of whiakq. They~ ( peteroles ) tried to take it. And she ~abbk d s paling off the fence. end nearly beat them poor white traa~ to dsetth. My mother wee s good ~n, strong as any au.. I es sitting on the d~ijohn. I ~a a little fellow then. They did n t do nothin , to hsz nsithsr, cause they 4~ itiat old Colonel Prout~n vould do. ~ ( Kollovey s mother was midwife to Colonel ~rout~ 1. man avifsandnurss e~ ~saiy to his boy, albhOugh a tree Indien.) Mixsd Bloods ~ I can carry you to Columbus)Georgie. There sas ten #~Letto Nig~ers ~ born there and you would think they were all white; but they were ally. ~ colored. They were slaves, but their nastsr was their ~ddy. / I ll tell you sc~thiV. L H. Riley and Kenry Miller, ~ You ~ kiiow then don t you -~ they ere blood brothers, ~ had the me kother end ths e tsthsr.Rilsy a grandfather was a white man named Miller. ~ Miller got; mad at his sons Riley s fathir, end sold him to a *ite san n ~ ~. ~ This intort ion given by K. B. ffoUoy C Dad or Pappy) Pleas of Reaidsnos 1524 Vel*tin. Street, Little Rook, Arkansas ~ oo~ . ~ .;oiiir ~ ~.!4~lrOsd~r and ~~I!!~ . ~ ~ no, Age 89

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p295 1 ~R1 8~28 ~e ot Intarytiiver 8. 8. Taylor Subject Zi $leve: Mixedj Blood.; Curioua Belista and 81a~e Ex~. pestat tone Story * * ** *** ** *** * ** * * ** * *** * ** * * N$ ~ Busy. Riley took the name of hie tather e second master. At-P ~- ~ ter freedom, iienry end Joeephine took the name of Miller, their reel ~ gran&tether. They said Miller had never dons anything* for them. Curioun Beliefs sud Slave ~peotstio*e of Freedom I wee looking right In Linooln e mouth when he esid, The colored man ia turned loose without snythiDg. I em going to give a dollar a . day to eTery Negro born before ~oipstion until hie death, ~ a pen~ zion of a doUar a dey.~ That , the reaeon they killed him. BLit *sy eure diin t get it a goiz~ to be an awful thing up yonder when they hold a jud~nent over the isy that things was done down here. Lincoln s Vialt to Atlante Ihem the war wee declared over, Abrehem Lincoln cerne louth and went to the capitol C of tlanta ) and there was eo many people to meet him he went tp to the tower instead o~ in the Stete Rouas. He asid, I did everything I could to keep out of iar. Many of you agreed to turn the Negroes loose, but J~eff Davie seid that he ~uU wade in blood up to hie neck b~ore he would do it.~ Ke caked for all of the 6onfedsrat. money to be brought up them. And ien it wee brought, he called for the oldest colored n around. E. said, Now, is you the oldeet.* The man eaid 9.e 8fr. Then he threw him one or thoee little box e of tohes end told him to est * * *** * ** *** ** **** * This infortion given by U. L Holloway ( ~d or Peppy ) Place at Residucs 1524 Yalantins Str..t, Little Rock, Arksne Occupation brainy railroader and dra~msn -~ Pension ~w Ags 89

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10 296 1OL$I~BZ ~JB3I~S N~e of I~t.rviewer S. S. Taylor Subject ~-. ~ L~noo1n a Visit to Atlanta . Grant s Attituds Schooling, Antebellum and PoetbeUua 3tory * **** ,~* ** **** * ** * ** ** ** *** f-, ~ ~ ~ ~ lir TO IT A~ND BtIBN IT ~ ~- ~ - Then he iaid, I an going t disfranchise every one of you (the whit e folka) and it Will be ten years bfore you can even vote or get. beck into the Union.~ Grairt . Attitude Gre~ut we. the oui that killed the Republican party. We amt had but three real Ispublioan preaidente aines the r ~- Gs3~fieM, Mclinle y eid Teddy Roosevelt Thsy k*lled Garfield, and thsy killed McKinley, eM they tried to kill Teddy Rooasvelt. W.tL, they eaked Grant if they could - make itate oonatitution.. Grant seid, 9es, il they 11d n t conflict with the national constitution. I But th~ did conflict and Grant di n t do nothin abo it it.$ . . . . Schooling a ~ 1~brthsrn teachers vera sent down here after the ~r end th.i chargd ~ ~ ~ - a dollar a month until the stete est up achoola. Some of the Niggsrs learned enough M the aix aontha achool t o t eeteh,end ao~ white person. tai~ght. - In slave timsa, they did ~n t have any schools tor Nigger.. Nigger. better not be caught with a book. If he were caught with e book they beat his to death nearly. Niggera used to get hold of thia Wibiter a ***************** This intor~tion given by ~ K B. Holloisy C Dad or Peppy) - Place of Residence 1524 Tsle*tias Strest, Littis Bock, Ark~a~a Occupat ion Foraerly rairoader end dreysan .~ Penehon.now. Me 89

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00 II 297 FOLKLORZ $1:JBJEcYrs Name of Interviewer 8. 8. Taylor Subject ~ Schooling; Share Cropping; Did n t Want to be Free Story ******************************** Blue Back Book and t he whit e Thlka would eat oh then. ami take thesn away. They diCbn~t allow no free Niggers to go to sehool either in slave times. Share Cropping I used to see Niggers in Georgia share cropping. Nigger work all the year. Christmas eve night they would be going beck to the plantation aing. ing~- done lost everything -~ eitting on the wagon singing: Jisho pity Lawd forgive That ar pentant rebel live. Then they ~uld have to get clothes end food egainat t~e next yeer a crop Then d see su on the wagon again driving back to t he plant at I on loaded down with provisions, einging: Law~I reyive us agin All our incr ee o~nee fran thee. I used to study how thenI people could live They did n t give but t en dollars a month for oon~.on labor. They did n t give anything t o the sher cropper . The~,; took ei . of it They said he spent it borrowed it and on like that. Did n t Went To Be Free Some that dii n t know any better diCn t want to be tree. Eapeoial~ ly them that had hard taskmaetu~. When the ~iigger was turned loose -~ eho fluff, some of them did n t have a good shirt to their back. The mae~ hat d terAktE to lose them so bad, he ~uld n t give them asytbing. But for twenty4ive years after slave t lines, there aii~t no race of people ever traveled as fast as the Nigger dia.. But when the young ones ** ** ** ** * * * ** ** * This infarnation given by I. B. Holloway ( Dad or Pappy C Place of Reaideno 1524 Va .entins Strsst Little RO k, kkanaae

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12 298 FOL~ ~~K 8UBJB I~S Neine of IrLt erviewer s s. Taylor Subject ~ Share Cropping; Did n t Want to Be Free; Riots and XKK Ex Slave Stories Stca~y: * ** ** * *** ** * ***** *** * *** ****** ** * O~me tt~ th* ~re the ones wkbt killed the thing. An old white man said: We thought if you folks kept it up we or you one would have to leave this country. But when the young ones esme on, end begen begrudging one anoth.... er t his an& t kiat and working aga inst one another th ~ we saw you would never make a n.atio*.~ I have been in big riots. I was in the Atlanta riots in 1891. We lost about forty men, and I don t know how maz~y the white tolks lost, but they said it w~s about e hundred. I used. to live there. I cerne here~in 1892. We had a riot there when the KKX was raising so much 6am, The first K j Iiu LJ.ux wore some ~tncI of hat that went over the s head and shoulders and lied great big red eyes in it. They broke open my house one nicht to whip me. I was ~rking as ~ foremen in the shops. One night es I was going home, some men stoppe ~i~ said Who are you. I answered H. B. Holloway. Then they said, Well w~II be over to your house tonight to whip you. I s~id, We growed up together and you could n t whip me then. How you spect to do it LOW. You might kill ~e, but you can t beat me. And one of th~ said, Well we ll be over to see you at eleven thirty tonight, and we are going to beat you. I went on home and told my wife what had happened. She wee a.. This th~ormation from H. B. Holloway Age 89 1~& V,i1 gant j n ~ ~ ~ TA t. t~ 1 ~ P~nk Ark. Fc~rm~r m i1roac1~r k Dravman.

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15 299 YOLKL ~1 SUBJECTS ~e ot in*eryi.weii 8. 8. Teylor Subject Ku Ilux Story * * ** *** ***** * * *** ** frsid~ sM .w.antec~ ni. to 1s~ve end~ take her and the children with her. But I aeid~, ~No, you uat teke the little hildrsn end go in the bdroom and etsy there. .~ Shs did. I had three eons thet were grown up, between twenty end twenty i~e1ght yesre old, end I had e Winohoeter, a shotgun and e pia~ . toi. I gave the Wincheeter to the o1dsst~, the ~otgun to the next, and the pistol t o the youngest I took my ex for n~yee1t I stat ioned the boys et the far end 01 the rocs t~y frcza the door. The oldeet seid, Papa, 1.t i kill thsi~.~ I eaid, ~No, You just etand thereand do nothing till I tell you ehen they bresk in, I ll knock the tiret one in the hee& ii~k~. the ax. But don t you do nothin till I tell you. After e while, we heard a noise outside, and I took my stand bes. . side the door. Then thq gave a rush, end battered the door down. L: 4~n iith a gray hood on ju~p~ inaid~e. I hit him aide the head with the flat of the ex, and hs tell down aoroaa the door. Then the othara ru~d up, end the boys out loos. with all three of the guns, end aich enother uproar you never hssrd. They high tailed it down the street, and the bo~ys took right after th~, shooting et their leS.. The Winoh.eter ehot sixteen timee, end the pistol shot eix, end the boy with the shotgun was shooting end breaking down and reloading * * * ** ** ** ** ** * ** 4 *4 *4 This infor~tio$ given by H. B. KoU wey Place of reaidence 1524 Valentine Street Little Rock, Ark Occupation Yormer rai .road.r end Draymen Age 89

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I J. FOL1 4 ~E SUBJECTS Name of intervieWer s. s. Taylor $Lthj ect ~Slave St ory: Ku Klux Story ********************** *~ 1J~ ahooting again as fast as he could. I went outside and whistled for the boys to come pack . m4cae . They would e~lways obey me. I told them to carry the man I had hit out. .~ He W~18 still lying there. Through all the fuss end uproer, he had been lying there acroas the doorway. carried him out and thr ew him on the sid walk. My eldest son said the m~n s~iid, Holloway, don t hit me no mors. I didn t, but jfb ~ had known ~ho he wee then, I would have gone out and cut hi s throat . He wa a old Colonel Troutxnan s aOfl. There was just two hours difference in our birth.Me and him both nursed frOEn the A sanie breast We grew up t ogether and were never sepsrat ed unt il we were thirt e en ( beginning of the wer) . Many people thought we were broth~s. I had fou~it for him end he had fought for me. Then he was ~ n t at i~r house, I was at his, ~nd his father pertly raised nie. That s the reason I don i(trust wiiite people. We had a big dog that everyone was scared of. We always kept him chained up. I unchained the dog, ~nd took the boys and we went out in the ~ods. It was cold; sb we made a tire under a tall sapling. Near dayligbt, I said, The dog sees something, but we c~n t see what it I a. ~ The eldest son said Peppy, if you get astride the dog, and looJ~the way he s looking, you can see what he sees. This infometion gLven by H.. B. Holloway Place of residence 1524 Valentine Street, Little Ro k, Arkanaas Ocoup~tion Former rail~osder drayxaen Pension now Age 89 300

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.3.5 Y~LKLCR! SUB1TEaZS leas of Interviewer 3. 8. I~aylor Subject Ix-Slave: Z~a V.ux Story * *** ** ** * *** ** * ** ** ** * ** ** * I got astride him and looked, and finally ~y off tbrough the tre s and tI~ branches and leaves, I saw six m~i riding through the ioods on horseback. I took the guns away trc~ the bcys and p~t the pistol ~d shotgun under the leaves at n~ feet. I made the baye seperste and hide in the brush at a good distance frc~ me end frcri each other. I nude the dog lie down ~eaid~. me. Then I waited. ~ n the men cerne near me end were about to pas. on looking for me, I hailed tiam. I told thee to stop right Ehsre they wer or I d drop thee in their tracks. IFi~ It was Colonel Troutman aM five other of the old men from town out hunting me. Colonel Trout~n said, We just wanted to talk to you Holloway. I said, Stand right wh&~e you~ ars end talk. After s~e talk, I l.t tha c~e up slowly to a mort tiatance froen mi. The upshot of the viola thing was that they wanted ~ to go b~ck to town with th~ to talk over the i~ttsr. They allowed I hsC n t dons nathin ~wrong. But Colonel Thoutman s wen was hurt bad, and some of the young men in the ~b had had their legs broke. 1Lnd they were all young m~ from the t own, boys that knew me aid were friendly to nm in the daytime. Still they wanted me to go to to4n kg 1 ~ thi4&~ charge, aid I knaw I would n t have a chance if I did that. linally I told Colonel Troutaim, that I was going home to see my wife This ii~f tion given by E. B. Holloway Place of residenos 1524 Yelentins Street Little Rock, Arlaness Occupation lomer rsi3xowdc end draymen Now pensioned ~ A~e 89 301

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302 PCLKL~E SUBJECTS I~e ot Interviewer S. S. Taylor Subject Ex SlaT. St y: I~i Kl~m ; Hoo Doo Ist 01 7 that evening, endthat it he wanted to talk to me, he could o~s .over there and talk. ehen they left, I sent the boys along home end told th~ to tell my uts. That night ien I ~t home, Colonel Troutman wee in the house talking to my vite. I want in quistly. He seid that they said I had :torty Niggera hid in the house that night. I told. him that there ~s n t anybody there but me and my femily, ax~1 that all the demege that vas done I done myself. He said that well h. dICIt t ble ma; that even if it was. his eon, they broke in on me a~i I had a right to defeM my f~ily~ and. that none of the old heads was goiz2 to do enything about it. 11e said I was a good men aM had neyer given anybody any troubls aM th t there is(~n t any excuse for eRybody o~in ~j~j~t up trouble iith ma. And that ~8 the end of It. Hoodoo My uts its stck, dorn eou i n t do nethin . 8cueone got to tell ing her about Osin Robertson. Cain Robertson wee a hoodoo doctor in Georgia. They there was n t nothin Gain oould n t do. She esys, Go and see Cain and have himc~ae up hsr..R I seys, Thsre amt no use to send for ~sin~ Cain aii~t co~iiig up hers boause they say he is a~two..hesd N1~ger ( Thq oail.d all * hoodoo m~ two .hsadl Niggers; I don t know ihy they called th~ two.h.ed) ~ This ixLtarmstion given by H. B. Holloisy Place c~ Rseidenos 1524 Yalentine Street Little Rock, Arkansas Occupation lormar railroader and drayzoan Pensioned now Age 89

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17 3o:i J OLKLcmE SDBJ~S Name of Int; erviewer S S. Thylcr Subject Z~-81ave: Uoodoo Stcry ************* ~ And you know he knows the white i olks will put him In jail if he cornea to tom. But she saya You go and get him. 80 I wetit. I left hirn et the house sind whew I c~nB back in, he aaid,4 1ook~ at your wife and she had one oi th~ epelle while I mea there. I m a~ fraid to tackle this thing because ehe has been poisoned and its been goin on a long time. ~d i~ ehe diea, they ll say I kifled her and they already don t like me and lookin for an excuse to do~ s~.ethin to me. My wife overheard him and aaya~ You go on, you got to do aomethin . So he made me go to town and get a pint of corn ~iiakey. When I brought it back, he drunk aihaif ot it at one gulp, and I etarted to knock him down. I d thought he d get drunk with my wite lying there aic*. Then he aeid, I ll have to aee your wife s atomack.~~ Then he scratched it and put three little horns on the place he scratched. Then he took another drink of ~iakey and waited about ten rnimttee. When he ~ 00k th&t ~tf her atomack, the were full ot blood. He put th~ in the basin in eome mat er ax~1 aprinkled some powder on t hem, and in about t en minutes more, he made me get then ex~ they ware full of clear water and there i~a a lot of little things that looked like wiggle tails ewi~mting around in it. This inforii*tion given by ~ K. B. KO11O~7 Place of Realdence 1524 Telentin. 8trset, Little Rocks Arkenaaa ~ Ocenoation lormsr railroader aM drayiusn Pensioned now Age 89

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18 -~ I- titlL: FOLKLORE 8UBJ~~8 Name of lut erviewer S. S. Tayl Subject Ex..Slave : Roodoo; Opinions Sbory He told me when my wife got well to walk in a certain direction a certain distance and the woman that caused all the trouble would come to my house ehd start e l usa With me. I said, Oan t you put this same thing back on her. He seid, Yes, but it would kill my hand. He meant that he had a curing hand and thet if ~ he u~de anybody sick or killed them, ell hie power to cure would go from him. I showed the StUIT he took out ot my wife s ston~ach to old Doc Matthews and he said, You can get anything into a person by putting it in I He asked me how I round out about it arvi how it was taken out and who did it. I told him all about it, and he said, I m going to see that that Nigger practices anywhere in this town he wants to and kobody bothers him. And he did. ~ Opinions of Young Pec~ple The young Niggers amt got as much sense as the old ones had, ~ those that were born before the wer. One thing, they don t reed enough. They don t know history. I can t understand them~ Looks like to me they had a mighty good chance; but it locke like the more they get the worse they are. Looks like to me their parents di( n t teach t~em right ~ or somethin . Young ladies ~ I look at then every day of~ my lite -- coarse, ewearthg, running with bootleggers, md runnthg the hoodlums down, amok- *************************** This infoimation given by H. B. Holloway Pl~oe of Resicence, 1524 Valentin Street, Little Rock, Arkansas Occupation Former railroad er and draynian (penatoned now) age 89

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19 :305 FOL~ORE 8UB~TEcTS Nsme ot hit erviewer 3. 8 Taylor Subject Ex Slave : Opinions; RelatiTes Story ******************* ******** I ~G, going halfn~ked, and so on. They don t care what they do or not htng. Relatives ~,SrA~ ~ ~ ~ ~ My brother was in Collodiusville, Georgia, the last time Iheard fr cm him. That is in Monroe County, or Upt on County, -- I don~t know what ccunty s in. I know he is there if he4living beo~use he owns a hc*ne there. William where he is. used t o keep a long time. The last time I heard from Mehala end Laura, tx~ their husbands were bricklayers and they were living in Atlanta, I think. They went 5~fl~: other place where there was p enty of work. I think it was to cleveland, Ohio. There s Josephine, Mendy, and little Mary -~ rive sisters ard seven brothers. Outside of Willien, CrawThrd, e~nd Milton, I heve ~n t seen none of~ thai since fifty years. I have n t seen Zekiel sine e the year of~ the ~ surrender. I seen sme of the white folks the year they had the re-union ~ here. They seen me on the street, and cerne over and talked to me, and ~ wanted me to go back to Fort Valley, ~nd offered to pay my railroad fare. ~ ~ But I told 0 em I was goin t o stay here in God s country. --- ~ ~ This information given by H. B. Holloway Place or residence 1524 Valentine Street, Little RoOk, Arkansas Occupation Reilroe~er end dreyman tensioned now A e 89 always lived in Macon but he is dead. Bud, ~- I don t know Milton, Irving, and Zekiel, I don t know where they are. I up with them reguler. But we amt written to each other In

[Interview with Holly, Pink] 307 306

~. ~ ~ ~ .. ~ ~ ~ctI::;r-( t)~JLj14.Jh. ~ . 4 ~ ~ Intsz ~i wsr . ~st_ Iren Robertson ~ .~ ~ ~ ~-L!~. -U- ~ ~ I-t ~ - ~ ~ s Person interviewed ~ink~ ~ ~ove Arken~ss ~ -_ ~ TI- ~ . ~ JI1r~JJI ~T J .~U J ~u~JX1UF ~ U _ P Ag. 70 ___mM ms ~1 was born in Anderson County, South Carolina. My papa was Abe Brown and ay nema was Lizzie Ihit. She died when I was a baby and Misa Nancy Ihite took ~ up to her house and raised as. Her husband was Mars Henry Ihite. They was good to . Miss Nancy was the best. They trsat.d like thsir own boy. It was done trs.dcm then 1~it my papa stayed on the p ao.. I learned to do up the night turns, slop the hogs and help bout the ~11kW. They had young calvss to pull oft. I toted in the wood eM picked up chipa. She dOne ererything for ~ and all the mothsr X knowsd. then I was seysn years old my papa ~zlled ne off to Arkansas, Is c~ on a limigration tickst, least E roksn we did. E don t think ay papa paid our isy. le was br~ight here. The land was better they told em. le settled in the woods cloa to Mariana and cc~nced farain . I been t&L min and workin in the tiabar and I carpenters a little. The timber is gone. RI supporta myself aU. I can. I own a little house at clarendon I rcksn is the reason I don t get no GoYernuent help.

[Interview with Holmes, Dora] 308 307

Interview.r_ Sato . S. Tay~1oi Pereon interviewed Dora ~o1mes ~1~I* . ~. . i:6 o Vai i~tine St., Little Roc1~ 4ik. A e 60? - Occupation ~ ~ Housewife My f ather B half brother8 were white. They all foixght in th army. They were Confederate soldier8. Once during the war ehen they came hc~m, they brought my uiothex the goods tor two dresaee, ~ twenty yarda of f1gui~ed voils, ten yarde for each dress. The cost of the whole twenty yards was fifty dollars C $50.00). WI atill have the dresees and s~ petticoats and pantaloone IttiCh are nearly aa old. I have ironed these things many a time until they were so stiff they stand atraight up on the floor.* Interviewer s Cosimients Mary AEn King, mother of Dora Ho1i~e, was the origine . owner of the dresses. She died at the age of ~.egh1 two or three years ago. One of the dresses is still in the possession of the daughter. It ha8 a Skirt with nine gores and a twelve.4nch headed ruffle. The petticoat is of white n*~.s1in with a tifty.two yard lace ruffle in sixteen tiers of lace with beading at the top. It was worn just after the Civil War. There are 8180 a baby dress and a baby petticoat f 1fty~aix years 3o~ old,

[Interview with Hopkins, Elijah Henry] 309 308

3O~778 ~ . ~ 308 ~ Thtervlewer ~ ~ . ~a~pi 3. Taylor O ~ ~ . ~ _-_-s_-_ ~ .-_---~ ~ ~PJ~ ~M ~L ~L~I *~ IF~-_-~_T ~ U~ ~ 1~reon interviewed ~ . ~ ~ E1ij~h. Eanry~ . .Hop~a~ . : ~ ~-* ~~ L~~_*~~ t ;-u--- ~4 :s- ~ ~ ~ .~-~ . ~ JVV~___~_ _~ _ _ ~ V i3~9~ V~j~~VVV St1~ ~, V 74ttVi VVVBO k Arkanaas ~ V My father a maater waa old Torn Iillinghaa, an awtuJ. big ta~r who owned tarins 1i~ Georgia and South CQ~?O11flB, both. Re lived in aoutthwest Georgia In Baker County. Old aen Wil11n~ham a wife was Thoebe Hopkina. Her mother was old lady Iiopkini. I don t know what the rest of her n~ was. We never called her nothin ~ ol( lady Hopkins or Mother Hopkins. She was one of the richest women in the stat.. When she died, her estate was divided among her children and grandchildren. Her slaves were part of her estate. They were divided among her children and ~rendchu1dreri, too. Poet Willinghem s family came in for its part. He had three eons Torn, ar., lohn, and Robert MY father already belonged to Torn Iillinghem, Sr. so 11e stayed with him, ~it my mother belonged to old lady Hopkins and shs went to Robert, so my daddy and mother were separated before I knew my daddy. . Ily father stayed with old man Wiflingham until freedom. Robert Willingham was my mother s master. 11e never married. When he died he willed all hie slaves tree. ~t his relatives got together an.d broke the will and never did 1~t em go. wThen I saw my father to know hin, I saw him out in Georgia. They told n~ that was my father. Then he had another wife and a lot of children. My mother brought me up and my father taken charge of i~ after she died and after freedom -about a year after. It was close to eniancipation because the st.atsB were still under martial law.

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2. 309 nI was born Ma3~ 15, 1856 , lii the ~XIW 11 district, South Carolina. They used to call them districts then. It would be Barnweil County now, They changed and started calling em counties in 1866 or thereaboute. I ~ ~ ~ ~? waa rtmning around when they mustered the men in for the Civil War, and I was about nine yeare old when the War ended. I was abo it ten when my mother died and my father taken charge of i~. i was taken rr~t South Carolina ehen I wee about Thur years old and carried into Georgia and stayed there until emancipation. My mother didn t tarry long in Georgia after ehe waa emancipated. She went back into South Carolina; but she died in a short time, as I just said. Then my father taken charge o~ ~. I got. married in South Carolina in 1885, and then I came out here in 1886--to Arkansaa, Little Rock was the tirat place I caine to I didn t stay here a ~ great while. I went dOwn to the Reeder farm on the Arkansas River juBt about sixteen miles aboy Pine Bluff. I started share cropping but taken down sick. I never could get u.sed to drinking that bott~ water. Then I . went to Pine Bluff and went to work with the railroad and helped to widen the ~ge of the Cotton Belt Road. Then the next year they started the Sever Contract and I worked in that and I worked on the first water plant they started. In working with the King Manufacturing Company I learned piping. . ~I stayed in Pine Bluff sixteen years. My wife d1e~ k~guat 1, 1901. A couple of years after that, I came back to Little Rock, and have been here ever since. I went to work on the flhinoia Central Railroad juat across the river, which is now the Rock Island Railroad. After it becei~ the Rock Island, the bridge was built across the river east ot Main Street. They used to go over the old Baring Cross Bridge and had to pay tor it,

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The Missouri P cifi enjoined the Rock Island and wouldn t let it go strai~it through, so they ~Ut their own bridge and belted the city and went on around. I got stricken do~n sick in 1930 and haven t been able to do heavy work since. You know, a plumber and steem4itter have to do aitul heavy work. -I get a little old age assiatance frcm the state. They are supposed to give me ccmmodities but my card got out and they ain t never give ~ another one. I went down to see about it today, and they said they d mail me another one. How the Little Children Were Fed My mother was always right in. the house with the white people and I as ted just like I was one of their children. They even done put me to bed with them. You see, this discrimination on color wasn t as bad then as it is now. They handled you as a slave but they didn t discriminate againat you on account of color like they do now. Of cour8e, there were brutal masters then just like there are brutal people now. Louisiana and Alabama and Mississippi always were tough states on colored people. South Carolina and G orgia got that way after people frctn those places eau~ in and taught them to mistreat colored people. Yet in Alabama and Louisiana where they colored people were worse treated, it seems that they got hold of more property and money. Same way it was in Mississippi. Patrollere The patrollers was just a set of mean men organized in every section of the country. If they d catch a nigger out and he didn t hav a pass, they d t le him up end whip him and then they d take hi~ back, 3. 31()

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You had to have a pass to be ou t at ni~t Even in the daytl you uln t go no great distance without a paae. Them big femi11ea--~r1ch temi1ie~ that had big plantations would come together and the niggers from two or three places might ~ to a church on one of thern ~it you couldn t go no place where there wasn t a white man looking on. Beading and Writing In. Slave Time Some of the white people thought 80 much of their slave8 that they would teach them how to write and read. ~it they would teach them secretly and t~ey would teach them not to read or write out where anybody would notice them. They didn t mind you reading as much as they minded you writ ing. If they d catch YOU now and lt was then, they d take you out and chop off them tingere you re doing that writing with. slave Occupation and ~Wagea My daddy was a builder. Old man Wllllngham gave him freedc~i and time to work on. his own account. He gave him credit for what work he done for him. He got three hundred dollars a year for my father a time but all the money was collected by him, because my father being a slave couldn t collect aiiy money from anybody. Ihen my father s master died, he may have had money deposited with him. ~it he was strictly honest with my father. No matter how rauch he collected he wouldn t take no morC n three hundred doll ra and he put all the rest to the credit of my father. He said three hundred dollars was enough to take. How Freedom Came The owners went to work and notifIed the slaves that they were free. After the proclamation was issued, the government had agents 4. 311

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~1 who went all through the country to see 1f the slaves had been freed. They would see how tUe proclamation was being carried out. They would ask them, How are you working? You are free What are you getting? Scme of them would say, I ain t gettin nothin now. Well, the agent would take that up and they would have that owner u~p befo re the government Maybe he would be working people for a year and. giving them nothin before they found him out. There are some places where they have them cases yet. Where they have people on the place and ain t paying them nothin . Memorie8 of Soldiers and the War I have seen thousands and. thousands of soldiers. sometimes it would take a whole day for theiii to pass through. When Sherman s army marched through Atlanta, it took more than a day. I was In Atlanta then. He sent word ahead that he was coming through and for all people that weren t soldiers to get out of the town. I saw the Rebels, too; I saw them when they stacked their arms. Looked like there was a hundred or more rifles in each stack. They just come up and pitched them down. They had to stack the jr arms and turn them over. I was taken to Georgia when I was four years old, you know. I recollect when all the people came up to swear allegiance, and when they were hurrying out to get away from ~herrnan s army. They fit in Atlanta and then marched on toward 3avannah. Then they crossed over into South Carolina. They went on through Columbia and just tore lt up. Then they worked their way on back into Georgia. They didn t fight in Au~sta though. Jeft Davis was captured not far erom my f ather s p1ace~ ~etf I~vis had a big army, but the biggest thing he had was about a thousand wagons or more piled up with silver and other things belonging to the Confederacy,

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6. 313 He was ~iipposed to be taking care of that. He had to turn lt over to the North. . Shin Plasters They had a kind of money right after the Civil War-..paper money gotten out by the United States Government and supposed to be good. The Confederate money was no good but this money-j--these shin plasters as they were ca1led~ was good. money Issued by the government. They did away with I it and called it all in. /You could get more ~or it now than it is worth.1/ The old green back took its place but the shin plaster was in all sizes. It wasn t just a dollar bill. It was in pinnies, five cents, ten cents, twenty-~five cents, and. then they skipped on up to fifty cents, and they didn t have nothin more till you got to a dollar. Schooling ni haven t had a great deal of schooling. I have had a little about In places. :Tust after the emancipation, my mother died and my tather married again. My stepmother had ther children and they kept me out ot my education. Since I have been grown, I~ have gotten a little training here and there. .itill I have served as supervisor of elections and done other things that they wanted educated people to do. But it was just merely a pick-up of my own. The first teachers I had were white women from the North. Politics I have never taken a great deal of Interest In politics. Only in the neighborhood where I lived there was a colony of colored people at Bentley, south Carolina. They chose ins to represent them at the polls and I did

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7. 314 the be8t ~ I could. I got great credit for both the colored and the white people 1~or that. Bit I never took much Interest in politics. My father spent a fortune in it but I never could see that it benefited~ him. I never did care tor any kind of office except a mail contract that I had once to haul m.ail. I went throu~h that successfully and never lost a pouch or anything but at the end of the year I throwed it up. I couldn t trust anyone else to handle it for ins and I had. to meet trains at all hours. The longest I could sleep was two or three hours a night 80 I gave it up at the end of the year. Care of Old People Some of the masters treated us worse than dogs and others treated us fine. Colonel Robert Willingham freed his slaves but his sisters and brothers wouldxi t stand for it . They went and stole us off and sold us. My mother being a thrifty colored woman and a practical nurse, everywhere she went, a case gave thirty dollars and her board and mine. My father paid his master three hundred dollars a year. He built these. gin houses and presses. The old man would write him passes and everything and see that he was paid for his s Some years he would make as much as three or four thousand dollars. His master collected it and held it for him and save it to him when he wanted lt. That was during slavery times. Opinion of the Present Slavery days were hard but in the same time the colored people fared better than now because the white folks taken up for the~n and they raised what they needed to eat. You couldn t go nowhere but what people had plenty to eat. Now they can t do it.

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8. 3 15 nI know what caused it too. The Yews didn ~ have much privilege till after the Negro was ... ezx~ancipated Theyusedt kill 3~ WS and bury them in the woods. But after emancipation, he began to rise First he began to lend money on ~rnall interest. Then he started another scheme. People used to not have sense They went to work and ~ot in with the Southern white Thlks and got a law passed about the fences. The Greeks and Italians are next t the Jews, They don t make much off the white maxi; they make it off the Negro. They come round and open up a place and beg the niggers to come in; and when they ~et up a little bit, they shut out the ni~gers and don t want nothin but white folks. It s a good thing they do, too; because if somebody didn t shut the Negro out, he d never have anything. The slaveholders were hard, but those people who come here from~ across the water, they bring our trouble. You can t squeeze as much out of the poor white as you can out of the darkey. The darkey is spending too much now.~ when he can get hold of it. everywhere you see a darkey with a home he s got a government mortgage on it Some day the government will start foreclosing and then the darkeys won t have anything, and the biggest white man won t have much. A hundred years from now, they won t be any such thing as Negroes. There will be just ~ mericana. The white people are mixed up with Greeks, Ge rma~is and Italians and everything else now. There are mighty few j~ire americans now. There used to be plenty of them right after the War. The country can t hold out under this relief system. They re sending the young people to school and all like that but they don t seem to me to have their minds on any industry.

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9. 316 They have got to have backing after they ~et . educated. Now, they U. bring these foreigners in and use them. In the majority of states now the colored riian ain t no good unless he can get some kind of trade education and can go into some little business. In slavery times, a poor white man was worse off than a nigger. General Lee said that he was fight ing for the benefit of the South1 but not for slavery. He didn t believe in slavery. Occupation and Present Support of Hopkins I caine to Arkansas in 1886. I got married in 1885 in South Carolina. I never had but the one wife. I have done a little railroading, worked in machinery. I have planted one crop. Did that in 188? but got sick and had to sell out my crop. For forty-six years, I worked as a plumber and piper. I worked in piping oil, gas, water, and I worked with mechanics who didn t mind a colored man learning. They would let rae learn and they would send me out to do jobs. Nothing hurts rae but my age. If I were younger, I could get along all right. ~it the work is too heavy for me now. ni get old a~e assistance from the state. They pay rae eight dollars. I have to pay four dollars for the use of this shack. So that don t leave much for me to live on. l in supposed to get commodities too, and I ein waiting for my order now. ~. ~e~{~V3 ii~ ~ ~ \C!~S,cu+~ Ic~e ~

[Interview with Hopson, Nettie] 318 317

)~&J I tIt~~ ).~4 ~ ~)1 ~ Interviewer Misa Ireue Robertson Person Interviewed Nettle Hopsoxi Heleiia 1hthi~ ~ Pop1~r Grov~ Y , Arkansas ~ I don t know how old I is, I axa old, I been here so long. I feel my age now right stuart. I want to do things and cive out. I know I m old. I look old. I was born in Alabama. Mother was sold to Bud Walls at Holly Grove. Papa bought her and brought us to this state. My father died seven months before I was born my raother told ins. She married a~in. She was the mother of ten children. We all lived and do better than we do now. Mother was light. She worked in the field ever since I o ie to know bout things. Her name was Martha Foster. I don t know my father s name but Foster. The rest of the family was called Walls. Whether they wanted to be called that, they was called Walls niggers fore and after freedom both. ~My husband is living. My daughter died first day of March. It sorter addled me.

[Interview with Horn, Molly] 319 318

;1 ~ ~ ~ . tJ. Interviewer Misa Irene Robertson Person interviewed Mo11jjIorn~ ~o~1~r~kove. 4rkanpas ~ ~ A~e~ ~ My ma and pa belong to the same white folks. I was born In North Carolina. Ma and pa had six children. I don t know how many owners they ever had in North Garolina. Ma and pa was named Sarah and lad Nelson. When I was a baby Rabin Harriett bou~1it ~ and mama. His wife was Becky Harriett. Ma was too old to sell without me. They didn t want to sen me but they couldn t sell her widout me. I am the baby of our family. Papa didn t get to come to Arkansas. That parted them. After freethin her other children come. I heard ma say how they kept papa dodged round fr~ the Yankees. The white tOIka kept him dodged r~ind. He was a field hand. Ma was a cook and house girl. $he never did work in the field till she cc~ out here. She said white folks didn t whoop him; he wouldn t take it. I don t know why they thought he wouldn t be whooped. I could walk when I first seed the Yankees. I run out to see em good. Then I run back and told ILias Becky. I said, What Is they? She told ma to put all us under the bed to hide us from the soldiers. One big Yankee stepped inside and says to Misa Becky, You own any niggers? She say, No Here I come outen under the bed and ask her ter bread. Then the Yankee lieutenant cursed her. He made the other four come outen under the bed. They all cc~anenced to cryin and I conuenced to cry. We never seed nobody lack him fore. We was soared to deaf of him. He talked so loud and bad.

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2. 3 19 He loaded us in a wagon. Marna too went wid him straight to Helena. He put us in a camp and kept ua. Mama cooked fer the Yankees six or seven nionth8. She heard em - the white soldiers whiaperin round bout freedcm. She told ein, You ain t goiner keep me here no longer. She took us walkin back t o her old ma8ter and ax him tor us a home Then &ie marri od man on the place. He was real old. I had five half brothers and sisters then. I was a good size girl then. They had run him and some more men to Texas. They went in a wagon and walked. They made one crop there He said fifteen or sixteen farn.hies what belong to different owners went out there. They heard so~ people talking overheard it was free tines. They picked up and left there at night. They ~iodged round in the woods and traveled at night. When he got back he made tenas to work as a share cropper. Master, he didn t give us nuthin . I didn t hear they wou~ld give em anything. Tnith of it was they didn t have much to keep less givin the niggers something. We all had little to eat and wear and a plenty wood to burn and a house to shelter us. The ~rk didn t slack up none. The fences down, the outhouses had to have more boards tack on. No stock cept a scrub or so. We had no garden seed cept what be borrowed round and raised. Tiraee was hard. We had biscuits bout once a week, lucky 1f we got that. The Ku Klux got after our papa. They fixin to kill him. He hid in the ~llies. They come to our house once or twice but I never seed em Papa come once or twice and took us all and hid us fore sundown. They quit huntin him. We farmed wid Mr. Hess. Mr. Herrin wouldn t let nobody bother his hands.

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3. 320 we had good times. I danced~. We had candy pullings bout at the houses. We had something ever~y week. I used to dance in the courth u at Clarendon -~ upstairs. P~u1 Wiley was head music man. ALl colored folks ~ colored fiddlera. I. waa married over fifty years, ~.tnt Sutton s mother helped bout my ~eddin supper. (auit Sutton 8 mother waa a white woman.) She and her 1 emily all was there. She had then two boy8 and two gina. Mama bought me a pure white veil. I was dressed all iii white. We had a colored preacher to marry ua. We married at night, borrowed lamps and had era settin about. There was a large crowd. Ann Branch was the regular cake..cooker over the country. She cooked all my cakea. They had roast pork and goose and all sorter pies. Then I went on to my new home on another man s place bout one4ourth mile from mama s house. ~int &ttton s mama was a widow women. My husband voted scum but I don t pay no tention to in. ei own a place but it t do no good My son la cripple end I can t I done passed hard ~rk now. My husband bought this place betore he I don t get help from nowhere. This ta hardest times in my lite. Well, education dom a heap ot good. The papers tell you how to do more things. It makes folks happier it they can read. Now I don t be bothered much wid young folks. You heard em say flies don t bother boum pots ain t you? I does nough to keep me going all the time and the young tolks ath.tns work all they can cept jas what it takes f or em to live on right now. Their new ways ain t no good to ~

[Interview with Horton, Cora L.] 322 321

-_L~~s - - Interviewer Samue1S.Tay1~or Person interviewed Cora L. Horton ~ . ~ ~ .. ~.... 9~. w~ Ninth.. Str~et., .Little Rock, Arkansas A e~ Between5O and 60? My grandfather on ray mother s side was a slave. Meter my mother had been dead for years, I went to Georgia where he was. I never had seen him before and I would always want to see hin, because I had heard my mother speak of hirn being alive and. ne v~ou1d write to her souetimes. I said it I ever ~ot to be grown and my grandfather stayed alive, I was going to Georgia to see him. So the first opportunity I ~ot I went Thi~t was a 1on~ tine ago. If I d waited till now he d a been dead. He s been dead now for years. He lived a 1on~ time after E visited him. His name was John Crocker. He lived in Marshailville, Georgia. I coulthi t tell how he and my mother ~ot separated. I don t know. don t believe I ever heard her say. In (~or~ia when she was quite a ~ir1, I think she said sonie ot her people left Georgia and went to Covington, Teinessee. boue of the whiie people that was connected with them in slavery were named iollinsheds and my auntie went in that narae . That is, her husband did. My mother s clame was Adelaide Crocker She was never a slave, Her mother was. My mother and father had children.~twe1ve of them. I don t know how many children my ~randparexits had. I know three uncles~-~illiara, Harmon, and Matthew. They were all my grandmother s children arid they were flewellens. She married a Flewellen. Those were my father s brothers. My auntie s husband was named Dick Hollinshed. They all come from Georgia. -..-~ - ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 3

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2. t ~ ~ It comes to me now. I remember hearing ray niother say once that her father was sold, I think she said that her father was sold frcm her rriother0 $he dithi?t ~ to know much about it~.on1y what she heard her father say, A man cerne through the country when I was a ~ir1 before my mother died. She died when I was youn . He carne to our hou8e and he said he was a relative of my mother s and he went on to tell what he knew of her folks In slave times. By him te1lin~ so imich about her folks, she thought he really was related to her . But after he left she found out that he was just a fraud. He was ~oin~ round throughout the country making it by claiming he was related to different people. I don t know how he found out so much about the different people he stopped with. I suppose there was a lot of people ~de it that way. PI don t know what my grandparents did in slavery tine. When I did see my grandfather, he was able to do aaiything. He didn t live so long after I seen him. My mother s mother was dead and he had married another woman0 I never did see my grandmother. I do remember seeing one of my granduncle s ~ But I was so small I don t remember how he looke d. I used to hear ray grandma say that they weren t allowed to have a church service and that they used to go out way off and sing and pray and they d have to turn a pot down to keep the noise from going out. I don t know just how they fixed the pot. ~ ~____;~ I had one auntie named Jane Hunter. When she died, she was one hundred and one years old. She married Rev. K. Hunter over here in North Little Rock, ~3he had been married twice. She was married to Dick Hollinshed tue first time. She s been dead ten years.

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3. tJ)~Z. ;~) ~3he was thirty-eight years old when Emancipation carre, She baked the first sacrament bread for the C, M. E. Ehurch when lt was organized in 1870. My grandmother 1 ived a hundred yeare too That was my father 8 mother. I knew both of them. My grandmother lived with US. That is, she lived with us a while when my mother died. She lived here a while before she died, and then she went back to Georgia because she had a son there named William Flewellen. He is a presiding elder In the C. M. E. church, in Georgia. My father was a railroad man and when my riother did anything at all, she worked in the field, My father farmed during the time when ho was workin on the railroad, I have heard my grandmother talk about slaves being put on the block and sold and then meeting way years after and not knowing one another. She told me about a w~nan who was separated from her son. One day, years after slavery, when she had married again and had a family, she and her husband got to talking about old slave times, She told him about how she had been sold away from her baby son when he was a little thins. She told him how he had a certain scar on his arm, Her husband had a similar scar and he got to talking about slave times, and they found out that they were mother and son. He left her and went on his way sad because he didn t want to stay on living as husband with his mother. I don t think those people were held accountable for that, do you?

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4. 324 Interviewer s Camnent Cora Horton is the first president ot the WOman 8 Missionary Society composed ot the societies of the three Arkansas C. M. E. Conferences, She has been president of the Anmial Conrerence division of the Woman s Home Missionary Society of the Little Rock Conrerence f~or about seven years. She visits all meetings ot the General Conference and the General Board of the C. M. E. church as well as all connectional meetings of the Little Rock Conference, and such meetin~s of~ the Arkansas and Southwest Con..~ f~erences a8 relate to the dischar~a of her duties as president or the State Woman s Home Missionary Society organization. She has been president ot the N. C. Cleves Club of &~llock Temple C. M. L Church of Little Rock for seven years and is a most active church worker as will be seen from this coenment, Th her worship she represents the traditional Negro type bit she buys the current issue ot the C M. E. Church Discipline and is well acquainted with its provisions relating to her specific church work as well as to all ordinary phases of church work and administration. There is a lot of draina in her story of the mother who unwittingly married her son, There is an interesting sidelight on slavery separations In this interview. Never had lt occurred to me that imposters among Negroes might seize upon the idea of missing relatives as the basis for a confidence schemes There is also an interesting sidelight on C. M. E. Church history In the naming of Jane Hunter as the woman who baked the first sacrement bread at the organization of that Church in 1870, ~ ~

[Interview with House, Laura] 326 325

~- - -. - - - ~ ~- . -~ ~ J-. --- ~ I~Sus~e~, B~xssei1vi1ip Arkansa. 41$ ~ 4 .~ : Name of interviewer Person interviewed A~~_______ No sir, I don t remember hearing m~ parents ever tell me just when I was born, the year or the month, ~tt it was sometime during the War. My J~8X~nt8 master W~B flWfld Mentor- ~apelled Mi.e~in.t~o~r. le cane to Pope County several years after the 1er, and I have lived here in Russeliville forty yeare end raised our family here. Father paaaed away about f ift3en years ago. . uMother uaed to tell me that the maater iaan t ovrly kind to th~. I remembr she used to talk of a~ money bein promised to them after they were freed, but I don t know how ~ich. Bu.t I do know that none wae I ever paid to them. No sir, E cannot read or write. ~1 have besn a member of the A. M. Z. Church ever since I wa8 a little girl. ~ NO~!: Mrs. Rouse is very neat in her dreas and general deportment, la industrioue, and. keeps busy working here and there at odd joba, but her memory is very uncertain as to many importairt details about her ancestry.

Hoodoo - haunted houses. 327 326

~(i3fl7 ~ ~1 ~ \ ~ ~ ~ .~ ~- ~ ~ Mrs. Mildred Thompson 320 ~~ : ~ Mrs. Carol________ El Dorado District Ex-Slave ~ Hoodoo - Haunted Rouses ~unt ~ an old negress of slavery days, can t comember her a~e but she :~ust be about 85 or 86 years old as she was about fourteen or fifteen when the w~ar closed. In speakin~ of those days Aunt Pinkie said: Oooh, chile, you ought to been there when Mr. Linktuin come down to free ua. ~ o1iecenien amt in it. You ought terseen them bi~ bli~ck bucks. Their 3uits was ~3o fine trimmed with them eagle buttons and they wuz dold too. And their shoes shined E)O they hurt your eyes. I tell yo ah cant comember my a~e b~t it s been a long time ~o. My oie Marsa Holbrook lived at Hilisboro ~nd 1~ ~uz a good morsta. I never weiit hungry or wid out does lfl them d aye . slavery days was good old days . These days is hard days. Po oie neeger caint ~it enough to feed herself. Themdays weuns made ~ir cloth nnd crowed our food and x~ver Daid for it. L~ever did ~nt for nothin and :.~rster had he ~ps of slaves. Use to brine them across Lioro Bay and them neegers always -~ i~~hting and niriniri~ off. They d run off arid ~o across Marc &~y trying to ~ et back home. Marsta neya vent after em. ~aid: Let em ~o. Amt no count no ways. I wooden take ~lOO for livmn.~ in slavery thys and I ra~nber when they all parted ~:ut. Mr. Linktum COIfl :~ down. Yasura, L~r. Abe Linktum ~dhis 2artner Horace Greeley, ~O1T1ed down. Lieutenants azid Sar~es all corned. And some bi~ yaller buck ni~ers all dressed up fine. I served Mr. Linktum myself wid my own hands. Yasum I did. I fotched cold water from the spring on a waiter and I ~stood straight an held it out just like dis in front of me. Yasum and his pa~trier, Mr. Horace Grreeley too. ~i~d them bi~ yaller buck ni~~rs went in the kitchm v~here my mammy was cookin and tole her: Git out er hear nigger. You don have to wait on deac white fokes w ;. i Yasuru dey did. 4nd they done said: You amt ~ot no more inarster and no more . . Yo don have to work 1~re rio more. ~it my mother said: I se putti.n old marster s victuals on to cook. wait till I gets em on. 4~fl they tole her again that she didn t have no more irarster and no more mis~us. I tole 1fl3J mt~rnmy t~ kick him down the step but she said she ~as afeard he viuld shoot her. All I hates about them

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-2- 327 ~txi:~OS slid L1eutexian~ s i$ they n ever~ did. shave Them days all wore ~hiskers. I comenther when I was a little chap standixi on the block with my raa~ny and beiflg.SOlcI. But Ah always had a good marster. Ah members standin on~ ni~ther block to cook. Tables wuz high to keep nothin from dra~ifl things off. Grandma Liken learnt rae to cook an I stood on a block and made out biscuits with a spoon ~h neber put my scratchers in the dough in my life. And I could cook good too. ~uz knowed as the drun~mers cook. Drusrimers would come through furn New Orleens a~~d et at ole marsters. and bra~ed on my cookin and tried to git me ter ~o wit them to New Orleans and cook fuh they wives. Mah tust naine was Pinkie Dixon. I was z~iarried on oie mthtesses front gallery and mah naine wuz Cook then. Next time ah married mah name wuz Howard. Ah can count but not to member hit. ~.h don know the number of my chilluns but ah kin name em. There s Alec, Henry, Minnie, Bllen, Mary, Cola, ~eebucky, Cruwford, Sarah and Ruby. ~3eebucky wuznamed fer Sears and Roebuck. Cause at that ti~ie weuns ordered things turn them and ordered Seebuckys clo es fore she cum fum thar. That why v~e xiaraed er that. Ah deednt ~it no book lamm. Ah larut enough to keep out of devilment and al~ rLowed 1io~ to cook. Now these fools aroun here don know nothin. They never did see Linktum or Horuce Greeley. Ah wishes it wuz work time a~in butah caint hold out 4~~h never ~its hot nor cold lak yo does. Ah takes mali cold bath ever mornin and ah feels good. Thus old aunt Pinkey rambled on and ou talking of this and that and especially tue good days - slavery days. She evidently thought that some of the army officers were Lincoln and Greeley. ~he probably heard her master or mistress ta~k about t~cse nien und got them confused with the anny officers who visited in the home. Old Marion 4Tohnson~as seven years old wnen the war closed. Is 79 now. Chillun let me tell you ah don viant to go over what I done been over. Not agin. In slavery days we had plenty toeat and plenty to wear but since then Oh, Lordy.

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-3,- ~y o1d~Mawster s naine was Alex J~iiderson and he lived in Jackson Parrish, Loui8iana. yuh sa~ youh wants me to tell you some tales about ole times, ghostes and the like. 11e11 ah sure can il ah gits started but somehow I jest don seem wound up this mawnin. . . One time there was a man what had ~t house full of~ daughters and his girl Janie ~~ai~ted to git married. Her lover asked her father s permission to wed. He said: ~e1i Mr . have you ~ot any objecti on to me and your dau~it er 3anie maryin ? The old man didn t want the young one to see how anxious he was to get rid of his daughter so he said: You wantin to marry my daughter, Janie? Janie don t want ter git married. The girl was behind the door listening and when her father said that she stoke up and sa~id: Yes I do pappa, bad. The young man said: See there now we both wants to git married. The oie r~tn spoke then and said: well, damn you, dash youtake her. You know what the clocks says? The bjb old mantle cloek8 we used to have ticked a1oii~ real slow and they said: Take your time. Take your time. Take your time. The little alarm clocks ol today say: Get together. Get together. Get together. Afl(1 that is j es 1 ike the younj~ folks When I was young the ~roung folks them days ~()UU~ folks took their time and went together a long tixt~ and they married they stayed r~arried. The young folks today rush around and get raarried in a week and fust thirL~ you knows tI~ey is done duvoced arid married a~in. They is jest as diffunt as the c~c~cks is diffunt. You knows if you makes up yo mind to do somethin and asks the Lord to help you he will. I was coriin al ong that path in Yune 12 years ago. I chewed Brown Mule tobacco arid wanted a chaw. I had been plowing all day and when I pulled the tobacco outen my ~:ccket it ~us wet where I had sweated on hit and the outer leaves wuz all curled up ~ so I said Lord help me and throwed it out in the weeds and havn t taken a chew since. Youns notice how the younguns cuss this day. The women~ too. In the olden days the WO~~11 didn t cuss out loud but they did wooden cussin. Now I bet you girls is done Wooden cusain lots o times. Loose youre temper and i~ant to say things and don t dare So you slams chairs around on the floor when you is movin them to sweep. That is wooden

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-4.. You says you le interested In buried treasure? Well near StrOng where the ~ ccc Camp is was a place of burled treasure. Madam Hartline and three other white folks and myself went down there in a car With a finding rod (divining rod) we 1~81i: the treasure. ~ when ~ took this here proving rod you sees here and drove hit down in the groun till hit struck somethin hard. A voice from somewhere said: ~hat you ai doin.g here? What you after? Ever body lit a shuck to the car and nobody ever did go back to see about the treasure. You says why did I run? Dese teets wuz made to take care of this body and I used ein is all. When ah was a young man and livin down in Louisiana below 7armerville ah weAlt with a bunch of white fellows to dig fer buried gold. They didn t begin diggin until att~r dark. Six men were on guard. We dug by a lig~it made by a big pine torch. Dug and dug and dug. Finally we struck hit. Got hit all uncovered aiid sure nuff there hit was. Yest then the torch blew out and we heard the quarest noises and ever body flLfl to CaIfl~. Hit jest poured down rain that night and the xt morain, we went back to get the money and hit was gone. And you saya you is interested in spooks and gho8ties. Down in Louiaiana Dr. Fred Hodge (white) had me to hItch up his buggy and go with him on my horse to make a call many miles away from home one night. Hit must have bon bout nineteen miles. I was ter go on some other place with him but the patient was so bad that he had ter stay and sont me on in the buggy an kept my horse to ride back. I was glad to git the buggy 808 I could take my ~al for a ride. The doctor stayed till bout four o clock. ill the mornin. He had to go home by a graveyard. There was a big white oak tree growin b:T the side of the road and When the doctor passed there every limb fell off the tree arid left the naked tree standin there. The doctor rode back to the house where he had been and he rode so fast that the horse was winded when he got there. The man went on back with him and there stood the tree ju8t as hit was uefore ever a limb fell otn t. Nother man. I knew went to town on horaeback and bought a bolt of domestic tor bis

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: ~ . ~ 330 wife an~ tied lt on the back or his saddle. ~1~e had to pass a cemetery. 3~est as he passed he noticed a flapping sound and . looked back tosee sumpin white wavin behind. He whipped hi~ horse and made him run and the faster he ran the mor the ~ flapping sounded and it got 1on~er and longer behind him. At last he got home and ~ found that the doxaestic had got unwrapped and was flappin in the wind. ~Fhe man was plumb weak and the horse died he I~d x~n him so hard. An talk of hainted houses. This here one that ahxn livin in i&~ hainted. Frank Thompson a yafler nigger died here before nie and raah wife moTed here. Before mah wife died, weuns would hear things and meh wife said hit was Frank Thompson come back. We would be in bed and would hear fokea walkin aroun and the door iould iae unlatched and come open. Mah wife would say that hit was Frank Thompson s spent corne b ck and as soon as he got through ramblin aroun she would git up and bolt the door agin. One Satiday night me and her went to town. On our way back as we wuz comm acrost that little ditch out thar she said to me step aside Marion and let Frank Thompson pass. Do& you see him comin? And we stepped aside an she said he passed and we come on home Ah hears hirn now at timm walkin aroun and goin iii and out the doors but ah amt never done seen him like she has. . ~ I Now ah 11 tell you about a curious happenin . One time down in Louisiana a brown skin girl died. When they started to the graveyard with her the sun was shinin as purty as hit is right now they lowered the coffin in the grave and it come-inced to rain hard and ever body ntn in the church and stayed till it quit raining. The rain stood in holes and puddles and ever body expected the grave to be tull but when ;e went out there was not a bit of water in the grave. How coins if it wa$n t hoodooed? Ah jes amt wound up right this mawnin to tell youns what you wants to know but if you all will come back ahm sure ah can member some more ah knows. And Uncle Marion kept working with the chair in which he Wft8 weaving a new bottom of white-oak splits. Before we left he showed u~ baskets that he had woven. Old Dellah Benton can neither read nor Write and doesn t know her age she must be ~ r~ear seventy. Della was my washwoman several years ago and I retn~mbered hearing her ~ tell something about hoodoes so we went to see Della to get aU. we could about it.

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-p6-p Honey ~ d~on you know that 1id~ you make a hole in a tree an~d put a hal r from the head Of the person you want to hoodoo in the tree and seal it up in there the person will go crazy. Yas main and .jfP~ you puts pins and needles in ~ith the hair before you seals the hole they will d4e. Why my ueighbor Angelina Thompson was . ~. hood Od by a woman. and h ll jest take you all ovah and let her tell you for herself. And ifn you allwant8 to drive somebody away fwn home sos they ll nevah come back one of their hairs and put hit in a 8teaxn ~of nmnin water so hit 11 n~n ol f and they leave home and nevah coins back. An somebody can git your track and ~in you slam crazy. Yasum they kin too. ~riere you steps in the clay or mud they gits hit and takes hit up with sumpin and does things to you and you goes crazy. Now you chullun come wi th me ovah to ~i ster Thompson s and she k in t ell you fer herself what was done done to her when she wuz hoodooed. ~ / ~e went to a nearby house and Della called ngelina out. ~he told us that she w~s truly hoodoe and wh~t she said was as followa: Sister Thompson tell these ladies about bein hoodooed. h they is airight. This is some of ray white folks I used to work fuh long time ago. The Angelina told the following: Yasuxn, I sholey wuz hoodooed. How hit come about I loaned ny clothes to a woman. 4~ dress and shoes. She put something on thera that looked like snuff. It was brown lookin and I jes though she had spilled snuff on em. That wuz 18 years ago and S~:e done hit outa jealousy. She wanted my oie raan and she thought she would hoodoo me arid ahd die and she d get him. And she woulda too ifxi hit hadn a been for Mother Dye. You all know she 8 a doodoo doctor who lived at Newport. An I went to her fer bout two years and she cured me. Mother Dye is daid now but J~ess Rogers, a man t~ur does the docterin now. You all ask how hit fected rae when ah was hoodooed. I tole you bout the brown stuff bein in i~ shoes and on rnah dress. Well ah put em on and in a little while ~ sh feet itched lak an could claw the bones out. 4.h nevah has In s~~ch misery. Then

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. ~ ; .~ ~ ..~7- . 3~32, ah t~uk somethin like the dry rot. The meat come oft my fixi~ers and toes. J est look at th~tn sc~a:rs. And look at these sears in raah hair~. $ee how x~ah haid is all scarred up. At times ah had a mind that ah wanted to go ~nd didn kncw where. They h~d to ~)tch me all the time. But ole Mother Dye cured me axid that woman didn git raah ole r.~Yi a~ tah all. . Della and ~ rige1ina talked among themselves for a moment and Della said ah believe ah will. Then she said: Does you all know Phil Green? He lives aLout two miles and a half down the Junction City High~ay and he is a hoodoo man. He can tell you all tLirigs efn you all cares to go ahil ~ with you. He can tell you what is ~wianter h~p en and what has happened arid ke can hoodoo. Of course we were in for going right then while we had a car so Della crawled in the back seat and w~ were away to Phil Gree~i s. sent out th hig~iw~y about two miles and turned off on a country road. T~p hill and down, around this field and that and through a bi~ gate, windi~ag around t~~rough a field and orchard. ~t last we arrived. 1h11 Green looked to be a prosperous rar~~ier. ~e drove up to t.e back of the house and around front. Some negro had just killed a chicken for dinner. Several care were parked in the yard. One bore a Louisiana license. The porch was full of x~e~roes. Della called and asked if Phil was tiere. T~ey replied that he was but that he wasbusy. Della said, We wants to see him and a black negro ~Y~ I~an came out to the car. My. butehe was furious. ~e had never seen a negro so angry before . The first thing she did was to tell us th&~t they did~ t serve white people but t:~~e way she expressed it was *~ scream she said: ~e don use white people. No suM ~e don use em. Hits too dangerous. Ah don t care who tole you Phil used white people ;:~ don He is may husban and ah won t let him. ~ EVe soon pacified her by telling her that we appreciated her point of view and that it ~s perfectly airight with us. Della crawled out of the car right now aiid said : You ail knows the way back to town don you? Ah s going ter stay. The next morning we went back to Della s. ~he told us that the people on. Phil s rront porch were from Marion Louisiana and they had come to get him to tell. them how

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~ . to ~et brie of the men of the family out of the penitentiary. ~3he apologized for ta~cin~ u8 out there and declared that she believed that he once served white people. AuntDilcie Raborn and all her family declared that she would be a hundred this AU~U5t. She is an ex-slaye and Mr. John Wright of Louisiana was her master. Yas m chillun I se a hunnerd years ole. ~ was one of the las youxi~ niggers on riarster s plantation. Mah job was~ raisin the chillun. Ole Marster s father was iivin in thera days and he fought iii the Resolution ~Var. Yasurn he did. He was rail o~d and ray mother chawed fer him joe like she did fer her baby. I se seen more hardness since I got old than ah ever did in mah life. ~1avery wuz the easiest time U all. Mah rauthas name was Charity and she wuz the f~iily cook, yasuru an ah wuz tjL nuss girl . I tuk care of the chil1un~. Oie marster s wife lost her raind and they h&d to watch her all the time. Did you c~.s1z they send her to the sylum? No man Thar warn t no syluins inthemdays and anyway ole ruarster had plenty of niggers to wait on her and take care of her and i~atch her S08 she wouldn t git out and git hurt. She did slip out one time and ah was totin the flour from mill from the gate to the kitchen aud she grabbed hit away fum me and throwed hit all ovah me and rubbed hit in ~riah face good a~d then laughed. at me. Then she run and dot in thecreek and set down in the watah ~r~d the nig~as had to git in th&r and ~it her out. Hit mad~e her sick and old riarster sho did git them nig~ers fer lettin her g t out. I sho wish all times could be slavery times. ~th had everything nice then. I had some chillun. Ah cant count era but ah can name em. foe, Habe, Abram, ~tfl~: Johnny, Charity and Calme. ~h makes mah home here with Charity, she is raah ~ baby chile and ~he if fifty. You asks is ahafeard of haints? ~h v never taken no fri~htmeut off n era. ~h v 1~ved in houses other folks couldnt live in but ah v never lived th~it way that I had to run from haints. Ah lived jes like a millionaire when ah lived in slavery times, seed more hardness shice I got old than I ever did in mali life. Then we left aunt Dude with her snuff and went to find Awit JameCart e r.

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- 9.. 334 j~ft~ei~ ~ramb1ing around in Rock I$land ~uarters we at la at found ~Tazie Carter. She wa~ living with her grand daughter and wu~s sitting out ifl the yard with a bunch of her ~ gr~at~grand~chi1dren~. She was so deaf that we were not able to talk to her, much to our ~ disaPpointment. The granddaughter told us that she was 106 years old arid that Mrs~ Roscoe Ta~inton s ~ranfather was Jane s old rna~3ter. ~ ;~e later saw Mrs. Taunton and she told us that Jane had belonged to her grandfather ~tephen Manning and was her mother s nurse. Jane was crown when Mrs. Taunton s mother v;~S born. ~ie were told aboutoldBill who lives in Barton ~uart.ers and went to find her. She was sitting out on the porch of her cabin and tie sat on the edge of the porch much to, the dismay of Bill who could not walk because of a sore foot Which she told us was caused. by thabi~te of a rattlesnake years a~o in slavery tiiae. Ah don want mah white folks to sit on the floo . Honey go in dah and git dat sheet arid spred hit on the floo . 01e Bill would go herself efn shecould walk. Iloney you all is ~wianter ~it blietered out 1x1 de sun like you is widout no hats on. Don you all know :.TOLL had orter t~ike keer of thet purty whit skin of yourn? My oie Ifli8SUS never would git out in the sun widout somethin on her haid. Oie Mawster thought she was purty and she aimed to stay purty. You all says you waxits ter heah oie Bill tell about slavery days, laws~ chillun Ah p:~3r ter God ah ll be with mah white chillun agin and play mah harp with em. de ll have p,~ L~ty to eat and plenty to wear jes as we did when we had our good mawster in slavery / da~Ts. Marster s grown 8011 used to say: Bill she s ruint to death. Why I used ter git rn:, youn~ niletesses dresses and put em on and git out in the yard and flounce and flip. The young mistess would scole me but youxx~ marster would say Leave Bill erione, ah lack to see her dance. Dance some nioah Bill. Mah white folks use ter teach me. Now when White folks tau~h me ahin a ui~ger done taughted. Honey ah je8 don like ter see mali white folks sit on the floo ah wishes oie Bill Cud foch some cheers fer yo all ter set on. How oie is ah? Ah jes don member but ah s powerful oie. I

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Ya~8 m ah w~iz .nurse girl for marsters chillun. I nevah had ter wuk hard a tall, all ah ~ i~~d ter do was play wid the chillun and take keer of em. oncet a circus show corned thnt arid mawster bought a rattle snake turn em fer a pet. Hit nevah did have hits teeth pulled (fwi~s). Hit wu;: a plum pet too, allus followin us about. ~le would h:ve to knock hit back outn de way sometines. One time ah wuz comm down de $tairs wid a Chile in each . s . ~ anTi and de snake wu~ crawlin erloxi~ sides me. Jest as we got ter the bottom hit crawled rouii front of me and ah didn see hit cause of havin the chillun in mah arms and ah stepped slambang on that snake an hit ~ turnt aroun and bit rash toot Ah nevah drapped them chillun though . My oie .r~an said ifn hit had been him he d a throwd them chillun down and run but not oie Bill. Marster and Mistess trusted Bill tc~ take keer of them chillun and ole Bill ShO did take keer of em. But nah foot nigh bout kilt rae and thet foot is ~hut is the nattah wid nie terday. You ask haint ah got no folk8? No m. Ah nevah had but one youngun and hit died wid the croup. The man next doo owns this heah house and lets oie Bill liveheah. The guvrnent lady send me a cI~eck ever month (pension) and 3~oe Lyons sits hit and fetches hit out ter You ask does ah Iaiow erbout any haiiited houses? No m when ah fin s a house is hainted ah airit ~wian in. No m not oie Bill. But sumpin hapened not long er~o that give rae a big fr~ht. Hit waz long bout du.sk ah seed two women, white as anybody ~W1aII down de road ~d when they ~ot along thar they quit the ro id and corne aroun the path. Ah said: Howdy a:~ they never even speak jus kep a ~oin . ~h say: Whar is youall a soin and they nevah 3a:r a work. Then ah say to em: V~on t you all come by and set with oie Bill a while J~n still they xievah sa;; nothin. Jus kep on a soin roun that house and down the road. T~ieii ah ~ot skeered and went in the house an ah doan set out late no noah. Efn them ~iO3t had uh come in th house ah would a gone uxiciah the hou.e. You all chillun am goin is you? Corne back ter ~ee oie Bill. J~.h sholey hates to ~7e mah white folks sit on the floor but mebby oie Bill s foot will be bettuh next tii~e an she can git her white fokes some cheers. untSallyFields said to be 106 years o