>. SLAVE NARRATIVES SLAVE NARRATIVES A Folk History of Slavery in the United States From Interviews with Former Slaves TYPEWRITTEN RECORDS PREPARED BY THE FEDERAL WRITERS' PROJECT " 1936-1938 ASSEMBLED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS PROJECT WORK PROJECTS ADxMINISTRATION FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SPONSORED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS Illustrated with Photographs WASHINGTON 1941 V VOLUME II ARKANSAS NARRATIVES PAST 5 Prepared by the Federal Writers' Project of the Works Progress Administration for the State of Arkansas McClendon, Charlie McCloud, Lizzie McConico, Avalena McCoy, Ike McDaniel, Richard E. Mclntosh, Waters Mack, Cresa McKinney, Warren McMullen, Victoria Madden, Nannie P. Madden, Perry Mann, Lewis Martin, Angelina Martin, Josie Mathis, Bess Matthews, Caroline Maxwell, Malindy Maxwell, Nellie May, Ann Mayes, Joe Meeks, Rev. Jesse Metcalf, Jeff Miller, Hardy Miller, Henry Kirk Miller, Matilda Miller, Nathan Miller, Sam Miller, W. D. Minser, Mose Minton, Gip Mitchell, A. J. Mitchell, Gracie Mitchell, Hettie Mitchell, Mary Mitchell, Moses Moon, Ben Moore, Emma Moore, Patsy Moorehead, Ada Mooreman, Mary Jane Morgan, Evelina Morgan, James Morgan, Olivia Morgan, Tom Morris, Charity Morris, Emma Moss, Claiborne Moss, Frozie Moss, Mose INFORMANTS 1 Mullins, S. 0. 170 4,7 Murdock, Alex 173 9 Myers, Bessie 175 13 Myhand, Mary 177 15 Myrax, Griffin 179 17 25 Neal, Tom Wylie 181 27,30 Nealy (Neely), Sally 184,186 32 Nealy, Wylie 188 39 Neland, Emaline 194 40 Nelson, Henry 197,201 47 Nelson, Iran 203 49 Nelson, James Henry 205 51 Nelson, John 208 53 Nelson, Lettie 209 55 Nelson, Mattie 210 57 Newborn, Dan 211 64 Newsom, Sallie 213 66 Newton, Pate 216 68 Norris, Charlie 219 70,71 • 72 Oats, Emma 221 74 Odom, Helen 226 78,86 Oliver, Jane 228 90 Osborne, Ivory 230 93 Osbrook, Jane 232 95 97 98 Page, Annie 234,235 ,237,238 100 239 103 Parker, Fannie 240 107 Parker, J. M. 242 111 Parker, Judy 249 113 Parker, R. F. 255 114 Parks, Annie 257 118 Parnell, Austin Pen 262 120 Parr, Ben 273 123 Patterson, Frank A. 276 125 Patterson, John 284 (Mattie)127 Patterson, Sarah Jane 286 136 Pattillo, Solomon P.. 292 141 Patton, Carry Allen 297 145 Payne, Harriett McFarlin 300 148 Payne, John 304 149 Payne, Larkin 306 152 Perkins, Cella 308 155 Perkins, Marguerite 167 (Maggie) 311,314 169 Perkins, Rachel 315 Perry, Dinah 318,320 Pittman, Ella 347,349 Peters, Alfred 322 Pittman, Sarah 351 Peters, Mary Estes 323 Poe, Mary 355 Peterson, John 332 Pollacks, W. L. 357 Pettis, Louise 334 Pope, John (Doc) 359 Pettus, Henry C. 338 Porter, William 362 Phillips, Dolly 344 Potter, Bob 364 Piggy, Tony 345 Prayer, Louise 367 <0 ' * ¦'r"' /"^M*/ Interviewer Mrs, Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Charlie MeClendon 708 S» Fourth Avenue, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 77 "I donft know exactly how old I am. I was six or seven when the war ended* I member dis — my mothar said I was born on Christmas day* Old master was goinf to war and he told her to take good care of that boy — he was goinf to make a fine little man* "Bid I live up to it? I reckon I was bout as smart a man as you could jump up* The work didnft get too hard for we. I farmed and I sawmilled a lot* Most of ray time was farming "I been in Jefferson County all my life* I went to school three or four sessions* "About the war, I member dis ~~ I member they carried us to Camden and I saw the guards* Ifd say, 'Give me a pistol*f They'd say, 'Ccaae back tomorrow and we'll give you one*1 They had me runnin1 back there every day and I never did get one* They was Yankee soldiers* "Our folks1 master was William E* Johnson* Oh Lord, they was just as good to us as could be to be under slavery* "After they got free my people stayed there a year or two and then our master broke up and went back to South Carolina and the folks went in different directions* Oh Lord, my parents sho was well treated* Yes mafm* If he had a overseer, he wouldn't low him to whip the folks* He'd say, fJust leave em till I come home.1 Then hefd give em a light breshin1* 2< "My father run off and stay in the woods one or two months* Old master say, fNow, Jordan, ishy you run off? Now Ifm goin1 to give you a light breshin1 and donft you run off agaitu1 But hefd run off again after awhile# "Be had one man named Miles Johnson just stayed in the woods so he put him on the block and sold him* "I seed the Ku Klux* We colored folks had to make it here to Pine Bluff to the county band* If the Rebels kotch you, you was dead* *0h Lord yes, I voted* I voted the Publican ticket, they called it* You know they had this Australia ballot* You was sposed to go in the caboose and vote* They like to scared me to death one time* I had a description of the man I wanted to vote for in my pocket and I was lookin* at it so I1 d be sure to vote for the right man and they caught me* They said, fWhat you doinf there? We1 re goinf to turn you over to the sheriff after election!f They had me scared to death* I hid out for a long time till I seed they wasn't goin1 to do nothinf* "My wifefs brother was one of the judges of the election* Some of the other colored folks was constables and magistrates — some of em are now ~~ down in the country* "I knew a lot about things but I knew I was in the United States and had to bow to the law* !Ehere was the compromise they give the colored folks — half of the offices and then they got em out after- wards* John ]£• Clayton was runnin1 for the senate and say he goin1 to see the colored people had equal rights, but they killed him as he was gwine through the country speakin** 3« "The White people have treated ma very well but they donft pay us enough for our work «*» just enough to live on and hardly that* I can say with a clear conscience that if it hadn't been for this relief$ I donft know what Ifd do «*- Ifm not able to work* Ifm proud that God Almighty put the spirit in the man (Roosevelt) to help us*19 Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Lizzie McCloud 1203 Short 13th Street 9 Pine Bluff, Arkansas Agfi 120? 7/ "I was one of fem bless your heart* Yes ma'rn, yes mafm, I wouldnft tell you a lie fbout that* If I canft tell you the truth Ifm not goin1 tell you nothin1! ••Oh yesf I cis a young lady in slavery times •*• bred and born in Tennessee* Miss Lizzie and Marse John Williams — I belonged to them -*• sho did! I was scared to death of the white folks* Hiss Lizzie ~~ she mean as the devil* She wouldn't step her foot on the ground, she so rich* No ma9m wouldnft put her foot on the ground* Have her carriage drive up to the door and have that silk carpet put down for her to walk on* Yes Lord* Wouldn't half feed us and they went and named me after her* "I know all about the stars fallln9* I was out in the field and just came in to get our dinner* Got so dark and the stars begin to play aroun1* Mistress say, fLizzie, itfs the judgment*f She was just a hollerin'* Yes mafm I was a young woman* I been here a long time, yes ma'm, I been here a long time* Worked and whipped, too* I run off many a time* Run off to see my mammy three or four miles from where 1 was* "I never was sold but they took we young women and brought us do*m in the country to another plantation where they raised corn, wheat, and hay* 2, Overseer whipped us too* Marse John had a brother named Marse Andrew and he was a good man* He9d say to the overseer, 'Now don't whip these girls so much, they can't work.' Oh, he was a good man* Oh, white folks was the devil in slavery times. I was seared to death of 'am* They'd have these long eow hide whips* Honey* I was treated bad* I seen a time in this world* *0h Lord, yes, that was long 'fore the war* I was right down on my master's place when it started* They said it was to free the niggers* Oh Lord, we was right under it in Davidson County where I come from* tfh Lord, yes, I knowed all about when the war started* I'se a young woman, a young woman* We was treated just like dogs and hogs* le seed a hard tlias — I know *iat I'm talkin* about* *0h God, I seed the Yankees* I saw it all* fe was so soared we run under the house and the Yankees oalled 'Cone out Dinah9 (didn't eall none of us anything but Dinah)* They said 'Dinah* we* re fight in1 to free you and get you out from under bondage*' I sure understood that but I didn't lave no better sense than to go back to mistress* *0h Lord, yes, I seed the Ku Klux* They didn't bother me cause I aidnft stay where they could; I was way under the house* "Yankees burned up everything Marse John had* I looked up the pike and seed the Yankees a comin'. They say 'fe's a fight in* for you, Dinah!f Yankees walked in, chile, just walked right in on us* I tell you I've seed a time* You talkin' *hout war —- you better wish no more war come* 1 know when the war started* The Secessors on this side and the Yankees ^n that side* Yes, Miss, I seen enough* My brother went and jined the Secessors and they killed him time he got in the war* 3< "No, Missy, I never went to no school* White folks never learned me nothin'* I believes In tellin1 white folks the truth* "White folks didn't flow us to marry so I never married till I ocne to Arkansas and that was one year after surrender• "First place I landed on was John Claytonfs place. Mr* John Clayton was a Yankee and he was good to us* We worked in the field and stayed there two years* I been all up and down the river and oh Lord, I had a good time after I was free* I been treated right since I was free* My color is good to me and the white folks, too* I ain't go in1 to tell only the truth* Uncle Sam go in* send me f cross the water if I don't tell the truth* Better not fool with dat man." 6 f?0 f o ? Interviewer * Mrs* Bemioe Bowden Person interviewed ________ I^sie IfoCloud Age 105 1203 E# Short 13th Street, Pine Bluff# Arlcansas /^\ "Well, where you been? I been wonderin* 'bout you* Yes Laud* You sure is lookin* fine* "Yes, honey, I was bred and bawn in Davidson County, Tennessee* Corns here one year after surrender* WBCT daughter there was a baty jus1 sittinf alone, now, sittin' alone when I come here to this Arkansas* 1 know what I'm talkin* about* "Liszie Williams, say old missis, was rich as cream* Yes Lswdl I know all about it f cause 1 worked for fem* "I was a young missis when the War started* I was workin* for ay owners then* I knowed when they was free—when they said they was free* "The Yankees wouldn't call azy of the colored women anything but Dinah* I didn't know who they was till they told us* Said, 'Dinah, wef s eemin' to free you*' "The white folks didnft try to scare us 'bout the Yankees f cause they iras too soared their selves* Them Yankees wasn't flay in'} they was fit in** Yes, Jesus I "Bad to work hard—and whipped too* wasn't played with* Mars Andrew came in the field a heap a times and say* 'Don't whip them women so hard^ they can't work*' I though* a heap of Mars Andrew* "1 used to see the Yankees ridin' bosses and them breastplates a shinin'* Yes lawd* ltd run and they'd say* 'Dinah, we ain't gwine hurt you*' Iawd, them Yankees didn't care for nothin'* Oh* they was fine* dollflTE crasy mbS*, bofter* *** ifcwrW* Prwrtmn fertags it vl#* *» ex ZbB hassmm Wbmj tamfes aa» «i»o» •What 1 eons Inso* I $aaia& on. jNtai C3aytoo»« $Ini» Bi ms ft T*e&&o sad lie '¦bus a good abl&io m %oo» *Um ite oaHiast oa» loft anr 1m Wf Smm$3&J* mm. 3S» «3£ &me»* want *sr "d ii«ar it . ¦kite She sel^ cans *e that tiiis ao aevar r m and %o&Y - lasrro four 1 StXWge the the .^r; ^-^Itaa m?mm* let iBsssfey' «JKte -in Hill «a& fe* to sio&&* fe Hi vtiuci ww -mid and to ^Ufit». & I**serm -ttfcn was &e$3*» He 'iaM ¦%o ^t%A *b» ma& -$mp ¦Mm was m&n&g -«rt ..MIX done «iu3 «€> «#&£ lifaey again to JBfc* She $&i& .and. joi 5, 11 She said on the way they passed some children* They was playing* A little white boy was up in a persiaraon tree sett inf on a limb eating persimmons* Ke was so pretty and clean* Grandma says, fTou think you is setae pumpkin, don't you, honey child** He says, fSo*ae pumpkin and soiae 'siiamon too** Grandma was a house girl* She got to keep her baby and brought him* He was my father* Uncle was born later* Then they was freed* Grandma lived to be ninety-five years old* Mrs* Dolphy looly and Mrs* Shelton was her young mistresses* They kept her till she died* They kept her well* "Grandma told us about freedom* She was hired out to the Browns to make sausage and dry out lard* Five girls was in the field burning brush* They was white girls—4Srs# Brown* s girls* They come to the house and said some Blue Coats come by and said, fYou free*' They told them back, fThatfs no news, we was born free** Grandma said that night she melted pewter and made dots on her best dress* It was shiny* She wore it home next day 'cause she was free, and she never left from about her own w&ite folks till she died and left them* *Times seem very good on black folks till hard cold winter and spring come, then times is migtity, mighty bad* It is so hard to keep warm fixes and enough to eat* Times have been good* Black folks in the young genera** tion need more heart training and less took learning* Times is so fast the young set is too greedy* They is wasteful too* Sob© is hard workers and tries to live right* "I wash and irons and keep a woman's little chile so she can work* I owns my home** v< rer. v*6.rs* fabe- -diN^dl -^WFiaNsw^l",^«n«?« i«? ''''^m^ ^¦'Vt^f^ i*?**«r"-Jiwir fcorr ir thar and te^-4d3;4iK -1awBk'-:mB* ma& 3#f^';^ '&6%WteiHfcn • ~ or ftlx* ^rad tm&jbte* «o* mast i^fe^'m^^ %sttl&&g-M&'«* %*£« %, r«oic- ,.*C~ of **«•«> tbe --tftaoe • ft**'*ms foimg *££• 'flMjf ^oi** -Iflto out* Fe M^rc, ron* Bwpt «m wmy «od '*om;-iRfta£ to Jteiii* Sh&*6 *oe Mat ms® .ming >*.cj*. *iaoo* T&g^* &sen 4M»ld-4RDfi'iiaald]3*-t stsy# Scdks get -co junnins ;off to "--•:,:¦ The^ tlimtght it look.IiicB a troix&m lkmx&<.8mm of tkmi m^ tfaqr -n^- they -iia&i'x cone o££ %®w&r frora « ma ®mm® ..j&ggoro i&xd&^t .iBWR' vh^r.: ^^ rM> t^a^^^ . Interviewer " , , Mlaa Ir»o» Robertaen - ¦¦ ¦ Person interviewed Richard H> MoDaaJLel. Brlnkley. Arkansas Age ?5 *I was born in Hewton County* Mississippi the first year of the surrender* I don't think my mother was sold and I know my father was never sold* Jim McDaniel raised ay father and one sister after his mother died* One sister was married when she died* I heard him say when he got mad he would quit work* He said old moster wouldn't let the mistress whoop him and she wouldnft let him whoop my father* My father was a blaek man but my mother was light* Her father was a white man and her mother part Indian and white mixed, so what am I? My mother was owned by people named Wash, Dick Wash was her young moster* My parents1 names was Willis and Elsie McDaniel* When it was freedom I heard them say Moster McDaniel told them they was free* He was broke# If they could do better go on, he didn't blame them, he couldn't promise them much now* They moved off on another man1 a place to share crop* They had to work as hard and dida*t have no more than they had in slavery* That is what they told me* They could move around and visit around without asking* They said it didn't lighten the work none but it lightened the rations right smart* Moster McDaniel nor my father neither one went to war* "From the way I always heard it, the Ku £Lux was the law like night watchman, then I was a boy there was a lot of stealing and bushwhacking* Folks meet you out and kill you* rob you. whoop you* A few of the black mem wouldn't work and wanted to steal* That Ku dux was the law watching around, Folks was seared of em* I did see them* I would run hide* ** ig "I famed up till 1029. Ikes J been doing j«b«. j worked on relief till they turned me off, said I was .*qj» old to .worktut they won't give as the pension. I been trying to figure out what I am to do. lady, could you tell me? Work at jobs when I can get them* "I allus been voting till late years. If they let seme folks vote in the first lection, they would be putting in somebody got no business in the gover'/ment. Ill the fault I see in white folks running the govern/men* is we colored folks ain't got work we can do all the time to live on. I thought all the white folks had jobs what wanted jobs. The conditions is hard for old men like me. I pay $3 for a house every Month. It is a cold house. "This present generation is living a fast life, that all don't they do?" 30959 Interviewer Sanaa! S, Taylor Person interviewed Watera Mclntoah 1900 Howard Street, Little Bock, Arkansaa Age 76 17 *I was born July 4, 1862 at 2:08 in the morning at Lynchburg, Sumter County. South Carolina* Parents «My mother was named Lucy Sanders* My father was named Sumter Durant* Our owner was Br# J* 14. Sanders9 the son of Mr* Bartlett Sanders* Sumter Durant was a white man* Vty mother «as fourteen years old when I was born* I was her second child* IXirant was in the Confederate army and was killed during the War in the same year I was born, and before my birth* Sold "When I was a year old. my mother was sold for #1500 in gold, and I was sold for #500 in gold to William Carter who lived about five miles south of Cartersville* The payment was made in fine gold* I was sold because my folk realized that freedom was coming and they wanted to obtain the cash value of their slaves* Name "My name is spelled fWaters1 but it is pronounced fWaiters*1 When I was born, I was thought to be a very likely child and it was proposed that I should be a waiter* Therefore Z was called Waters (but it was pronounced Waiters)* They did not spell it w~a-i-t~e-r~s, but they pronounced it that way* __ *? 18 Bow Freedom Game "My mother said that they had been waiting a long time to hear what had become of the War, perhaps one or two weeks* One day when they were in the field moulding corn, going round the corn hoeing it and putting a little hill around it, the conk sounded at about eleven o'clock, and they knew that the long expected time had come* They dropped their hoes and went to the big house* They went around to the back where the master always met the servants and he said to them, 'You are all free, free as I am* You can go or come as you please* I want you to stay* If you will stay, I will give you half the crop*9 That was the beginning of the share cropping system* "My mother came at once to the quarters, and when she found me she pulled the end out of a corn sack, stuck holes on the sides, put a cord through the top, pulled out the end, put it on me, put on the only dress she had, and made it back to the old home (her first master's folk)* lhat the Slaves Expected "When the slaves were freed, they got nhat they expected* They were glad to get it and get away with it, and that was what mother and them did* Slave Time Preaching "One time when an old white man came along who wanted to preach, the white people gave him a chance to preach to the niggers* The substance of his sermon was this: * 'Now when you servants are working for your masters, you must be honest* When you go to the mill, don't carry along an extra sack and put 3ome of the meal or the flour in for yourself * And when you women are cooking ** 19 in the big house, don't make a big pocket under your dress and put a sack of coffee and a sack of sugar and other things you want in it*9 "They took him out and hanged him for corrupting the morals of the slaves* Conditions After the War "Immediately after the War, there was a great scarcity of food* Neither Negroes nor white folk had anything to eat* The few white people who did have something wouldn't let it be known* My grandmother who was sixty-five years old and one of the old and respected inhabitants of that time went out to find something for us to eat* A white woman named Mrs. Burton gave her a sack of meal and told her not to tell anybody where she got it* "My grandmother brought the meal home and cooked it in a large skillet in a big cake. When it got done, she cut it into slices in the way you would cut up a pie and divided it among us* That all we had to eat* House "The white people in those days built their houses back from the front* In South Carolina, there were lots of farms that had four to twelve thousand acres* From what mother told me, Master Bill's place set back from the road* Then there was a great square place they called the yard* A fence divided the house and the yard adjoining it from that part of the grounds which held the barn* The yard in front and back of the house held a grove* 4. 20 Ai 1 square around the house the Negro quarters were 1 enclosed so that the lit- ves could not get out CL e> \jL J*^§*e iarents were at work* n-> £> \A Tlie Nekroes assembled on #>3I 0 Jete porch when the V! l^ gong called them in the morning* The boss gave ^orders from the porch* Vi oT^ere was an open space 3? ab$tween the quarters and C?llf ***e court (where *&• lit- # v St**"!8 slaves played)* There J^ra3 a gate between the *~ court and the big house • w0n the rear of the house, there was a porch from i*hich the boss gave orders usually about four ofclock in the morning and at which they would disband in the evening between nine and ten—no certain time but more or less not earlier than nine and not often later than ten* Back of the house and beyond it was a fence extending clear across the yard* In one comer of this fence was a gate leading into the court* Leading out of the court was an opening surrounded by a semi-circular fence which en- closed the Negro quarters* "The cabins were usually built on the ground—no floors* The roofs were covered with clapboards* "When I was a boy we used to sing, 'Rather be a nigger than a poor white man** Even in slavery they used to sing that* It was the poor white nan who was freed by the War, not the Negroes* Furniture "There wasnft any furniture? Beds were built with one post out and the other three sides fastened to the sides of the house© IT v 21 Uaivying Time "I remember one night the people were gone to marry* That was when all the people in the community married immediately after slavery• C&oats "We had an open fireplace* That was at Bartlett Sanders9 place* He had close on to three thousand acres* Stery grown person had gone to the marrying, and I was at home in the bed I just described* •*£g»n«.«»r.. ^otharjha* . chair an« that «. h.r, «ly. Sh. «. named Senia and was about eighty years old* We burned nothing but pine knots in the hearth* You would put one or two of those on the fire and they would burn for hours* We were all in bed and had been for an hour or two* There were some others sleeping in the same room* There came a peculiar knocking onjgrandmotherfs|chair# Itfs hard to describe it* It [^^T ^ was something like the distant beating of a drum* Grandmother was deadf of course* The boys got up and ran out and brought in some of the hands* When they came in, a little thing about three and a half feet high with legs about six or eight inches long ran out of the room* Ku yiny in^i? "Whenever there was a man of influence* they terrorised him* They were at their height about the time of Grant fs election* Many a time my mother and I have watched them pass our door* They wore gowns and sons kind of helmet* They would be going to catch some leading Begro and whip him* There was scarcely a night they couldn't take a leading Negro out and whip him if they would catch him alone* On that account* the Negro men did not stay at home in Sumter County, South Carolina at night* &* ^w<5 They left home and stayed together* The Ku Klux very seldom interfered with a woman or a child* "They often scared colored people by drinking large quantities of water* They had something that held a lot of water, and when they would raise the bucket to their mouths to drink, they would slip the water into it. White Caps "The white caps operated further to the northwest of where I lived* Z never came in contact with them* They were not the same thing as the Ku , Klux* Voting "In South Carolina under the Reconstruction, we voted right along* In 1868 there were soldiers at all of the election places to see that you did vote* Career Since the War .* » I -KIM. ». y« **. «*.£ -asT/l -.rch^i^ . little* Then I got converted* I got it in my head that it was wrong to take big profits from business, so I sold out* Then I was asked to assist the keeper of the jail* nIn 1888 I went to school for the first time* I was then twenty-six years old* By the end of the first term. I knew all that the teacher could teach, so he sent me to Claflin University* I left there in the third year normal* "When I returned home, I taught school, at first in a private school and later in a public school for #15 a month* 7. "A man named Boyle told me that he had some ground to sell* I saved up #45, the price he asked for It* When I offered it to him, he said that he had decided not to sell it# I went to town and spent my $45* A few days later, he met me and offered me the place again* I told him I had spent my money* He then offered it to me on time* There was plenty of timber on the place, so I got some contracts with a man named Roland and delivered wood to him* When I went to collect the money, he said he would not pay me in money* "A man named Pennington offered me 20# a day for labor* I asked if he would pay in money* "He replied, fIf youfre looking for money, donft come*1 "I went home and said to my wife, fI am going to leave here*1 "I came to Forrest City, Arkansas January 28, 1888* I farmed in Forrest City, making one crop, and then I entered the ministry, and then I preached at Spring Park for two years* "Then I entered Philander Saith College where I stayed from 1891*- 1897* I preached from the time I left Philander until 1913* "Then I studied law and completed the -American Correspondence course in Law when I was fifty years old* I am still practicing* Wife and Family " In 1897, when I graduated from Philander, my wife and six children were sitting on the front seat* nI have eleven sons and daughters, of whom six are living* I had seven brothers and sisters* "My wife and I have been married fifty-six years* I had to steal her away from her parents, and she has never regretted coming to me nor I taking her« * 23 e. 24 Interviewer1 s Comment "Brother Mack* as he is familiarly and affectionately known to his friends is a man keen and vigorous 9 mentally and physically* He attends Sunday school, church both in the morning and evening, and all departments of the Epworth League* He takes the Epworth Herald, the Southwestern Christian Advocate, the Literary Digest, some poultry and farm magazines, the Arkansas Gazette, and the St* Louis Democrat, and several other journals* He is an omnivorous reader and a clear thinker* He raises chickens and goats and plants a garden as avocations* He has an invincible reputation for honesty as well as for thrift and thought* Nothing is pleasanter than to view the relationship between him and his wife* They have been married fifty-six years and seem to have achieved a perfect understanding* She is an excellent cook and is devoted to her home* She attends church regularly* Seems to be four or five years younger than her husband* Like him, however, she seems to enjoy excellent health* 0?\ Interviewer Mrs* Bernlce Bowden______________ Person interviewed _____________Cresa Mack 1417 Short Indiana St*, Pine Bluff, Ark* Age 85 *I can tell you something about slavery days* I was born at South Bend, Arkansas on the old Joe Clay place* I * member they used to work fem scandalous* They used me at the house and I used to wait on old mistress9 brother* He was a old man named Cal Fletcher* "I fmember when they said the Yankees was cominf the boss man put us in wagons and runned us to Texas* They put the women and chillun in the wagons but the men had to walk* I know I was something over twelve years old* "Old mistress, Miss Sarah Clay, took her chillun and went to Mem-* phis* "My white folks treated us very well. I never seed 'em whip my mother but once, but I seen scans whipped till they1a speechless* Yes ma'm I have* "I can 'member a lot 'bout the war* The Lord have mercy, I'se old* I 'member they used to sing 'Run nigger run, The paddyrollersfll ketch you, Hun nigger ruuuf "Corse if they ketch you out without a pass they'd beat you nearly to death and tell you to go homa to your master* *One time I was tot inv water for the woman what did the washing I was goin* along the road and seed some thin1 up in a tree that look like a dog* I said 'Look at that dog.1 The overseer was comin* from the house and said •That ain't no dog, that's a panther. You better not stop' and he shot it out. Then I've seen bears out in the cane brakes* I thought they was big black bulls, I was young then ~ yes mamf I was young. "When the Yankees come through they sot the house afire and the gin and burned up 'bout a hundred bales a cotton* They never bothered the niggers' quarters* That was the time the overseer carried us to Texas to get rid of the Yankees* "After the surrender the Yankees told the overseer to bring us all up in the front yard so he could read us the ceremony and he said we was as free as any white man that walked the ground. I didn't know what 'twas about much cause I was too busy playIn'? *I didn't know what school was 'fore freedom, but I went about a month after peace was declared. Then papa died and mama took me out and put me in the field. "I was grown, 'bout twenty-four or five, when I married* Now my chillun and grand chillun takes care of me** i'U it\t>c\ 27 oliD^i, Interviewer_________ Miss Irene Bobertaon__________ Person interviewed Warren McKinney» Hazen» Arkansas Age 85 I was horn in Edgefield County, South Carolina. I am eighty- five years old. I was horn a slave of George Strauter. I remembers hearing them say ''Thank God Ize free as a jay bird." My ma was a slave in the field. I was eleven years old when freedom was declared. When I was little.Mr* Strauter whipped my ma. It hurt me bad as it did her. I hated him. She was crying. I chunked him wijfch rocks* He run after me, but he didn't catch me. There was twenty-five or thirty hands that worked in the field. They raised wheat, corn, oats, barley and cotton. All the children that couldnft work stayed J at one house. Aunt Mat kept the babies and small children that couldn't go to the field. He had a gin and a shop. The shop was at the fork of the roads. When de war come on my papa went to build forts. He quit ma and took another woman. When de war closed ma took her for! children, bundled em up and went to Augusta. The govern- ment give out rations there. i$y ma washed and ironed. People died in piles. I don't know till yet what was de matter. They said it was the change of living. I seen five or six wooden, painted coffins piled up on wagons pass by our house. Loads passed every day lack you see cotton pass here. Some said it was cholorea and some took consumption* *• 38 Lots of de colored people nearly starved* Not much to get to do and not much house room* Several families had to live in one house* Lots of the colored folks went up north and froze to death* They couldnft stand the cold. They wrote back about them dieing* Ho they never sent them back* I heard some sent for money to come back. I heard plenty bout the Ku ELux* They scared the folks to death* People left Augusta in droves* About a thousand would all meet and walk go- ing to hunt work and new homes* Some of them died* I had a sister and brother lost that way. I had another sister come to Louisiana that way* She wrote back* I donft think the colored folks looked for a share of land* They never got nothing cause the white folks didnft have nothing but barren hills left* About all the mules was wore out hauling provisions in the army. Some folks say they ought to done more for de colored folks when dey left, but dey say dey was broke* Freeing all de slaves left em broke* That reconstruction was a mighty hard pull* Me and ma couldn't live. A man paid our ways to Carlisle, Arkansas and we come* We started working for Mr. Emenson. He had a big store, teams*and land. We liked it fine, and I been here fifty-six years now. There was so much wild game living was not so hard. If a fellow could get a little bread and a place to stay he was all right. After I come to dis state I voted some* I have farmed and worked at odd jobs* I farmed mostly* Ma went back to her old master* He persuaded her to come back home* Me and her went back and run a farm four or five years before she died. Then I come back here* 3* I first had 300 acres at Carlisle* I sold it and bought 80 acres at Green Grove. I married in South Carolina* We had a fine weddin* home weddin. Each of our families furnished the weddin supper* We had 24 waiters* That is all the wife I ever had. fe lived together 57 years. It is hard for me to keep up with my mind since she died* She been dead five years nearly now, I used to sing but I forgot all the songs. We had song books. I joined the church when I was twelve years old* I think the times are worse than they use to be* The people is living mighty fast I tell you. I don't get no help from the government. They wonft give me the pension* I canft work and I canft pay taxes on my place. They just don't give me nothing but a little out of the store* I canYt get no pension* Little Book Distriot 80566 FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Name of Interviewer Irene Robertson Subject_______ Ex«^Sljate - History Story - Information (if not enough space on this page add page) Warren McKinney was born in Edgefield County, South Carolina* He was born a slave* His master was George Strauter* He had a big plantation and worked twenty-five or thirty work hands* There were twenty-f ive or thirty children too small to work in the field* %*y raised cotton, corn, oats, and wheat* His mother washed and ironed and cooked* He was small but well remembers once when his mother had been sick and had just gotten out* George Strauter i&ipped her with a switch on her legs* War- ren did not approve of it* Rooks were plentiful and he began throwing at him* He said Mr* George took put after him but:'didn't catch or whip him* George Strauter tried to teach them all how to be good farcers and be saving* Warren knew war was going on but he didn't see any of it* His father came home several times* He was off building forts* He said he remembered a big ^hurly-burly* and he heard 'em saying, nThank God I'ze free as a jay bird** He didn't know why they were fighting so he didn't know then why they were saying that* George Strauter had a shop at the fork of the roads* He had his own gin* Hiey sold cotton and bought provisions at Augusta, Georgia* They made some of their meal and flour and raised all their meat and made enough lard to do the year around* He heard them talking about the ^Yankees* burning up Augusta, but he saw where they had burned Haniburg, South Carolina or North Augusta they call it* After they were free he remembers his mother bundling up her things and her family 6nd them all going in m ox cart to Augusta to live* Warren1 s mother washed, cooked and ironed for a living* Her husband went off and lived with another woman after freedom* Warren was about eleven years old then* The Government furnished food for them too* One thing that distressed Warren was the way people died for mo^ 3his Information given by Warren MoKinney _____________ *** Place of Residence Hazen, Green Grove Settlement, Arkansas _____ Occupation_____________Farming______________________________AGE 84 31 He saw five or six coffins piled up on a wagon being taken out to be buried* He thought it was changing houses and changing ways of living* They didn't have shoes and warm clothes and werenft fed from white folks smoke house* Lots of the slaves had Consymption-^^ Stout vbzl aaad^omen didn't live two years after they were freed* Lots of them said they didn't like that freedom and wanted to go back but the masters were broke and couldn't keep many of them if they went back* When warren was about fifteen years old, there was a -wtoite.man or two but colored leaders mostly got about a thousand colored people to start for the West walking* Warren had sisters and brothers who started on this trip* Warren had some fu5§y_^bj!oJ«h^ ers, his mother was afraid would get in jail* Ihey kept her un- easy* Itoey shipped^ their Hstuff* by boat and train* He never saw them any more but he heard from them in Louisiana* Louisiana had a bad name in those days* When Warren was about fourteen and fifteen, his mother had them on a farm, farming near Hamburg* When he was sixteen or seventeen, his mother and^lhe other children came on the train to about where Carlisle now is but it wasn't called by that name* There were rery few houses of any kind* Mr* Emerson had a big store and lots of land* He worked black and -white* Mfc* Emerson let them have seven or eight mules and wagons and they farmed near there* He remembers pretty soon there was a depot where the depot now stands^ a bank* a post office, and two or three more stores, all small buildings* He liked coming to Arkansas because he got to ride on the train a long ways* It was easy to live here* There were lots of game and fish* Warren never shot anything in his life* He was no hunter* } t Nats^ were awful* Warren made smoke to run the(Sats) from the | ^&?T£ cows* Four or five deer would ccme to the smoke* Cows were afraid of them and would leave the smo£e* When he would go the deer would leap four or five feet in the air at the sight of him* When Warren lived in Augusta, Georgia, they had schools a month at a time but Warren never did get to go to any, so he can't read or write* But he learned to save his money. He joined a church when he was twelve years old in South Carolina and belongs to the Baptist church at Green Grove now* The old master in South Carolina persuaded his mother to come back* They all went back four or five years before his mother died* While Warren was there he married a woman on a joining farm* 30623 Interviewer Samuel a* Taylor Person interviewed Victoria Mcttiillen______ 1416 5* Valmar, Little Rock, Arkansas Aae 54 Occupation Seamstress "l$y mother was born March 16, 1865, and knew nothing of slavery* | "Both my grandmothers and both grandfathers were slaves* Uy father was born in the same year as my mother and like my mother knew nothing of slavery although both of them might have been born slaves* "I knew my mother* s mother and father and my father1 s mother, but I didn't know my father's father* "He was from Texas and he always stayed there* Be never did come out to Louisiana where I was born* Ily mother was born in Louisiana, but my father was born in Tiexas* I don't know what county or city my father was born in* I just heard my grandmother on his side say he was born in Texas* "During the War (he was born in 965 when the War ceased). Grandmother Katy—that was her name, Katy, Katy Blmore -*» she was in Louisiana at first*-** she was run out in Texas, I suppose, to be hidden from the Yankees* Uy father was born there and my grandfather stayed there* Be died in Texas and then Grandma Katy come back to Louisiana with my father and settled in Ouachita Parish* "Grandma Katy was sold from South Carolina into Louisiana to Bob Hc~ Clendon, and she kept the name of Klmore who was her first owner in South Carolina* It was Bob HcGlendon who run her out in Texas to hide her from the Yankees* My grandfather in Texas kept the name of Jamison* That was the name of his master in Sexas* But grandma kept the name of Elmore from South Carolina because he was goo; to her* He was better than Bob McClendon* a* The eastern states sold their slaves to the southern states and got all the money> then they freed the slaves and that left the South without anything* "Grandma Katy had Greek Indian blood in her. She was of medium size and height, copper colored, high, cheek bones, small squinchy eyes9 black curly hair* Her hair was really pretty but she didnH curl it* It was just naturally curly* She was a practical nurse as they call it, but she did more of what some people call a midwife* They call it something else now* They got a proper word for it* "They got it in these government agencies* That is what she was even in slavery times* She worked for colored people and white people both* That was after she was freed until she went blind* She went blind three years before she died* She died at the age of exactly one hundred years* She treated women and babies* They said she was a real good doctor in her day* That is been fifty-four years ago* I will be fifty~four years old tomorrow—September 18, 1938* In slavery times my grandma was almost as free as she was in freedom because of her work* , \ " "She said that Bob HcClendon was cruel to her* Sometimes he1 d get angry and take the shovel and throw hot ashes on the slaves* And then hefd see them with blisters on them and he would take a handsaw or a flat plank and bust the blisters* Louisiana was a warm country and they wouldnft have much clothes on* When the slaves were freed, he went completely broke* He had scarcely a place to live* "I seen him once* He look like an old Opossum* He had a long beard down to his waist and he had long side burns too* Just a little of his face showed* He was tall and stooping and he wore his hair long and uncut down on his neck* Tou know about what he looked like* He had on blue jeans pants and brogan shoes and a common shirt—a work shirt* He wore very common clothes* s. 34 When they freed the Negroes, it broke him up completely* Be had been called a f big-to-do1 in his life but he wasnH nothing then* Be owned Grandma Katy*> nGrandma Katy had a sister named Maria and a brother named Peter* He owned all three of them* I have seen all of them* Grandma Katy was the oldest* She and Uncle Peter stayed close together* He didn't have no wife and she didn't have no husband* But Aunt Maria had a husband* She lived off from them after freedom* It was about twelve miles away* 2ly great- aunt and great-uncle—they were Maria and Peter—that was what they were* Uncle Peter died first before I left Louisiana, but Aunt Maria and Grandma Katy died after I came to Arkansas* Grandma Katy lived four years after I came here* "After they was free and my father had gotten large enough to work and didnft have no horse* my grandma was going f round waiting on women—that Is all she did—all the rest of the people had gotten large and left home* Papa made a crop with a hoe* He made three bales of cotton and about twelve loads of corn with that hoe* He used to tell me, fTou donft know nothinf 'bout work* You oughter see how I had to work*1 After that he bought him a horse* Money was scarce then and it took something to buy the place and the horse both* They were turned loose from slavery without anything* Hardly had a surname-*-just Katy* Maria, and Peter* "I knew more about the slave-time history of my mother1 s folks than I did about my father1 s but I111 tell you that some other time* My grand* mother on my mother1 s side was born in Richmond, Virginia* She was owned by a doctor but I canvt call his name* She gets her name from her husband1 s owners* They came from Virginia* They didnft take the name of their owners in Louisiana* They took the name of the owners in Virginia* She was a twin- 4. 35 her twin was a boy named June and her name was Hetty• Her master kept her brother to be a driver for him* She was sent from Virginia to Louisiana to people that were related to her Virginia people* She called her Louisiana mistress f White Ha;f she never did call her fmissis*1 The white folks and the colored folks too called her Indian because she was mixed with Ghoctaw* •That's the Indian that has brown spots on the jaw* Theyfre brownskin* It was an Indian from the Oklahoma reservation that said my mother belonged to the Choctaws* "She rode from Virginia to Louisiana on a boat at the age of twelve years* She was separated from her mother and brothers and sisters and never did see them again* She was kept in the house for a nurse* She was not a midwife* She nursed the white babies* That was what she was sent to Louisiana for—to nurse the babies* The Louisiana man that owned her was named George Dorkins. But I think this white woman came from Virginia* She married this Louisiana man. then sent back to her fatherfs house and got grand- ma; she got her for a nurse* She worked only a year and a half in the field before peace was declared* After she got grown and married* my grandfather^ she had to stay with him and cook and keep house for him* That was during slavery time but after George Dorkins died* Dorkins went and got hisself a barrel of whiskey--one of these great big old barrels—-and set it up in his house, and put a faucet in it and didnft do nothin* but drink whiskey* He said he was goin* to drink hisself to death* And he did* "He was young enough to go to war and he said he would drink hisself to death before he would go, and he did* My grandma used to steal news- papers out of his house and take them down to the quarters and leave them there where there were one or two slaves that could read and tell how the War was goin1 on* I never did learn how the slaves learned to read* «• 36 Bat she was in the house and she could steal the papers and send them down* Later she could slip off and they would tell her the news, and then she could slip the papers back* "Her master drank so much he couldn't walk without falling and she would have to help him out* Her mistress was really good* She never allowed the overseer to whip her* She was only whipped once in slave time while my father1 s mother was whipped more times than you could count* "Her master often said* '1*11 drink myself to death before Ifll go to war and be shot down like a damn target,* She said in living with them In the bouse, she learned to cuss from him* She said she was a cussin* soul until she became a Christian* She wasn't 'fraid of them because she was kin to them in some way. There was another woman there who was some kin to them and she looked enough like my grandma for them to be kin to each other* We talked it over several times and said we believed we were related; but none of us know for sure* "When the slaves wanted something said they would have my grandma say it because they knew she wouldn't be whipped for it* ?White Ma1 wouldn't let nobody whip her if she knew it* She cussed the overseer out that time for whipping her* / "When grandma was fourteen or fifteen years old they locked her up in / the seed house once or twice for not going to church* You see they let the white folks go to the church in the morning and the colored folks in the evening, and my grandma didnft always want to go* She would be locked up in the seed bin and she would cuss the preacher out so he could hear her* She would say, 'Master, let us out»f And he would say, fTou want to go to church?' And she would sayt 'Ho, I don't want to hear that same old sermon: "Stay out of your missis* and master's hen house* Don't steal your missis' 6. 37 and caster's chickens* Stay out of your missis' and master's smokehouse# Don't steal your missis' and Master's hams*'' I don't steal nothin'* Don't need to tell me not to*' "She was tellin* the truth too* She didn't steal because she didn't have to* She had plenty without stealing She got plenty to eat in the house* But the other slaves didn't git nothin' but fat meat and corn bread and molasses* And they got tired of that same old thing* They wanted some** thing else sometimes* They'd go to the hen house and get chickens* They would go to the smokehouse and get hams and lard* And they would get flour and anything else they wanted and they would eat something they wanted* There wasn't no way to keep them from it* "The reason she got whipped that time, the overseer wanted her to help get a tree off the fence that had been blown down by a storm. She told him that wasn't her work and she wasn't goln' to do it* Old miss waa away at that time* He hit her a few licks and she told old miss when she came back* Old 'White Ma' told the overseer, 'Don't never put your hands on her no more no matter what she does* That's more than I do* I don't hit her and you got no business to do it»' "Her husband, wj grandfather, was a blacksmith, and he never did work in the field* He made wagons, plows, plowstocks, buzzard wings—they call them turning plows now* They used to make and put them on the stocks* He made anything—handles, baskets* He could fill wagon wheels• He could sharpen tools* Anything that come under the line of blacksmith, that is what he did* He used to fix wagons all the time I knowed him* In harvest time in the fall he would drive from Bienville where they were slaves to Monroe in Ouachita Parish* He kept all the plows and was sharpening and fixing anything that got broke* He said he never did get no whipping* *•• 38 "His name was Tom Kldridge* They called aim 'Uncle Too** They was the mother and father of twelve children. Six lived and six died* One boy and five girls lived* And one girl and five boys died—-half and half* He died at the age of seventy-five, June 6, 1906* She died January 1920* f> "I came out here in January 1907* Z lived in Pine Bluff* From Louisiana I came to Pine Bluff in 1906* In 1907 I went to Kerr in Lonoke County and lived there eight years and then I came to Little Bock* I farmed at Kerr and just worked fround town those few months in Pine Bluff. Excusing the time I was in Pine BLuff and Little Bock I farmed* I farmed in Ouachita Parish, Louisiana** 30434 q$ Interviewer _________Miss Irene Robertson___________ " Person interviewed Nannie F. Madden. West Memphis% Arkansas Me 69 *I am Martha Johnson's sister* I was born at Lake Village, Arkansas. I am 69 years old. I was born on Mr. Ike Wethingtons place# Fa was renting. Mother died in 1876 on this farm* We called it Red Leaf plantation* father died at Martha Johnson's here in West Memphis when he was 88 years old* "Mother was not counted a slave* Her master1 s Southern wife (white wife) disliked her very much but kept her till her death* Mother had three white children by her master. After freedom she married a black man and had four children by him* We ape in the last set* "We was born after slavery and all we kjiow is from hearing our people talk* Father talked all time about slavery. He was a sol- dier. I couldn't tell you straight* I cap give you some bpoks on slavery: Booker T. Washington's Own Story of His Life and Work, 64 page supplement, by JIbon L. Holsey Authentic Edition—in office pf Library, of Congress, Washington, P. C.f 1915, copywrighted by J. L. Nichols Co* The Master Mind of a Child of 81avery~~Booker'T* Washington, by Frederick £• pinker* Washington, D. C* I have read them both. Yes, they are my pwn bopks* *I farmed and cooked all my life** 30592 Interviewer Sasael 8. Taylor . Person interviewed Berry Madden Thirteenth Street* south side, one block east Age About 79 of Boyle Bark Road Route 6, Care L« G. Cotton, Little Rock, Arkansas 40 Birth and Age "I have teen hero quite a few years* This life is short* A man ought to prepare for eternity* I had an uncle who used to say that a person who went to torment stayed as long as there was a grain of sand on the sea* "I was a little hoy then slavery broke* I used to go out with my brother* He watched gaps* I did not have to do anything; I just went out with him to keep him company* I was seared of the old master* I used to call him the 'Big Bear** He was a great big old man* NI was about six years old when the far ended, I guess* I don't knew how old I am* The insurance men put me down as seventy-three* I know I was here in slavery time, and I was just about six years old when the tar ended* Schooling "I got my first learning in Alabama. I didn't learn anything at all in slavery times* I went to school* I would go to the house in slavery time, and there wouldn't be nobody home, and I would go to the bed and get under it because I was seared* then I would wake up it would be way in the night and dark, and I would be in bed* "I got my schooling way after the surrender* le would make crops* The third time we moved, dad started me to school* I had colored teachers* I was in Talladega County* I made the fifth grade before I stepped* My father died and then I had to stop and take care of my mother* 2. 41 An "Aunt Caroline* Story "I know that sane people can tell things that are goin1 to happen* Old man Julks lived at Pumpkin Bend* He had a colt that disappeared* He went to 'Aunt Caroline*—that's Caroline Dye* She told him just where the colt was and who had it and how he had to get it hack* She described the colt and told him that was what he come to find out about before he had a chance to ask her anything. She told him that white people had it and told him where they lived and told him he would have to have a white man go and git it for him* He was working for a good man and he told him about it* He advertised for the colt and the next day, the man that stole it came and told him that a colt had been found over on his place and for him to come over and arrange to git it* But he said, 'No, I've placed that matter in the hands of my boss*' He told his boss about it, but the fellow brought the horse and give it to the boss without any argument* Family and Masters «My old master's slaves were called free niggers* He and his wife never mistreated their slaves* fhen any of Madden's slaves were out and the pateroles got after them, if they could make it home, that ended it* Hobody beat Madden »s niggers* "My father's name was Allen Madden and my mother's name was Amy Madden* I knew my grandfather and grandmother on my mother's side* My grandfather and grandmother never were 'round me though that I can remember* "When the old man died, the Hegrees were divided out* This boy got so fl&fiy and that one got so many* The old man, Mabe Madden, had two sons. John and Little Mabe* My mother and father went to John* They were in Talladega because John stayed there* s* 42 "My fatherfs mother and father fell to Little Ifiabe Madden* They never did come to Alabama but I have heard my fatner ralk about them so much* My father1 s father was named Harry* His last name must have been Madden* "My grandfather on my mother1 s side was named Charlie Hail* He married into the Madden family* He belonged to the Halls before he married* Old iaan Charlie, his master, had a plantation that wasn't far from the Madden1 s plantation* In those days, if you met a girl and fell in love with her, you could git a pass and go to see her if you wanted to* You didnft have to be on the same plantation at all* And you could marry her and go to see her, and have children by her even though you belonged to different masters* The Maddens never did buy Hall. Grandma never would change her name to Hall* He stayed at my house after we married, stayed with me sometimes, and stayed with his other son sometimes* "My mother was born a Madden* She was born right at Madden*s place* When grandma isarried Hall, like it is now, she would have been called Hall* But she was born a Madden and stayed Madden and never did change to her husbandfs name* So my mother was born a Madden although her father*a name was Hall* WI donft know what sort of man Mabe was, and I only know what nqr parents said about John* They said he was a good man and I have to say what they said. He didn*t let nobody impose on his niggers. Pateroles did git after them and bring them in with the hounds, but when they got in, that settled it. Madden never would allow white people to beat on his niggers* "They tried to git my daddy out so that they could whip him. but they couldn't catch him* They shot him—the pateroles did—but he whipped them* % daddy was a coon* I mean he was a good man* 43 Early Life «My brother was big enough to mind gaps* That was in slavery tines* They had good fences around the field* They didnYt have gates like they do now* They had gaps* The fence would zigzag, and the rails could be lifted down at one section, and that would leave a gap* If you left a gap, the stock would go into the field* Ihen there was a gap, my brother would stay in it and keep the stock from passing* Ihen the folks would come to dinner, he would go in and eat dinner with them just as big as anybody• When they would leave, the gap would stay down till night* It stayed down from morning till noon and from one ovclock till the men came in at night* fhe gap was a place in the rails like I told you where they could take down the rails to pass* It took time to lay the rails down and more time to place them back up again* They woaldnft do it* They would leave them down till they come back during the work hours and a boy that was too small to do anything else was put to mind them* My brother used to do that and I would keep him company* When I heard old master coming there, I'd be gone, yes slree* I would see him when he left the house and when he got to the gap, I would be home or at my grandfather's* Occupational Experiences *I have followed faiming all my life* That is the sweetest life a man can lead* I have been farming all my life principally* My occupation is farming* That is it was until I lost my health* I ain't done no thin' for about four years now* I would follow public work in the fall of the year and make a crop every year* Never failed till I got disabled. I used to make all I used and all I needed to feed my stock* 11 even raised my own ? wheat before I left home in Alabama* That is a wheat country. They donft raise it out here*! 5., 44 "I came here—lenine see, about how many years ago did I come here* I guess I have been in Arkansas about twenty-eight years since the first time I come here* I have gone in and out as I got a chance to work somewheres* I have been living in this house about three years* nI preached for about twenty or more years* I donf t know that I call myself a preacher* I am a pretty good talker sometimes* I have never pastored a church; somehow or fnother the word come to me to go and I go and talk* I ainft no pulpit chinch* I could have taken two or three menfs churches out from under them, but I didnft* Freedom and Soldiers "I canft remember just how my father got freed* Old folks then didnft let you stanf and listen when they talked* If you did it once, you didn't do it again* They would talk while they were together, but the children would have business outdoors* Yes siree, I never heard them say much about how they got freedom* "I was there when the Yankees come through* That was in slave time* They marched right through old man Madden1 a grove* They were playing the fifes and beating the drums* And they were playing the fiddle* Yes sir, they were playing the fiddle too* It must have been a fiddle; it sounded just like one* The soldiers were all just a singinf* They didnft bother nobody at our house* If they bothered anything, nothing was told me about itt I heard my uncle say they took a horse from my old manager* I didn't see ito They took the best horse in the lot my uncle said* Pardon me, they didnft take him* A peckerwood took him and let the Yankees get him* I have heard that they bothered plenty of other places* Took the best mules, and left old broken down ones and things like that* Broke things up« I have heard that about other places, but I didnft see any of it* 6. Right after the War "Right after the War, my father went to farming—renting land* I mean he sharecropped and done around* Thing is come way up from then when the Negroes first started* They didnft have no stock nor nothinf then* They made a crop just for the third of it* When they quit the third, they started givin* them two-fifths* That18 more than a third, ain't it? Then they moved up from that, and give them half, and they are there yet* If you furnish, they give you two-thirds and take one-third* Or they give you so much per acre or give him produce in rent* Marriage WI was married in i883* My wife's name was Mary Elston* Her mother died when she was an infant* Her grandmother was an Elston at first* Then she changed her name to Cunningham* But she always went in the name of Alston, and was an Elston when she married me* My wife I mean* I married on a Thursday in the Christmas week* This December I will be married fifty- five years* This is the only wife I have ever had* We had three children and all of them are dead* All our birthed children are dead* One of them was just three months old when he died* My baby girl had three children and she lived to see all of them married* Opinions "Our own folks is about the worst enemies we have* They will come and sweet talk you and then work against you* I had a fellow in here not long ago who came here for a dollar, and I never did hear from him again after he got it* He couldn't get another favor from me* No man can fool me more than one time* I have been beat out of lots of money and I have got hurt trying to help people* K> 7. "The young folks now is just gone astray• I tell you the truth, I wouldn't give you forty cents a dozen for these young folks* They are sassy and disrespectful* Don't respect themselves and nobody elsec When they get off from home, they'll respect somebody else better fn they will their own mothers* "If they would do away with this stock law, they would do better every- where e If you would say fence up your place and raise nhat you want, I could get along. But you have to keep somebody to watch your stocks If you don't, you'll have to pay something out* Itfs a bad old thing this stock law. It's detrimental to the welfare of man." 46 interviewer Mrs* Bernlce Bowdea Person interviewed - lewis Mann 1601 Bell Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Asa 81 "As nigh as I can come at it, I was bout five or six time of the war* I remember when the war ceasted* I was a good-sized chap* "Durin1 the war my mother's master sent us to Texas; western Texas is whftr they stopped me* We stayed there two years and then they brought us back after surrender* "I remember when the war ceasted and remember the soldiers refugeein* through the country* Ifm sosnewhar round eighty«*one* I'm tellin1 you the truf* I ain't just now come here* "I was born right here in Arkansas* My mother's master was old B« D* Williams of Tennessee and we worked for his son Mac E* Williams here in Arkansas, They was good to my mother* Always had nurses for the colored childrun while the old folks was in the field* "After the war I used to work in the house for my white folks ~~ for Dr# Bob Williams way up there in the country on the river* I stayed with his brother Mac Williams mi^it near twenty-five or thirty years* Worked around the house servin1 and doinf errands different places* "I went to school a little bit a good piece after the war and learned to read and write* wIfve heard too much of the Ku KLux* I remember when they was Ku Kluxin1 all round through here* 2. "LordJ I donft know how many times I ever voted# I used to vote every time they had an election* I voted before I could read* The white man showed me how to vote and asked me who I wanted to vote for. Oh Lord, I was might near grown when I learned to read* "I been married just one time in my life and my wifefs been dead thirteen years. WI tell you, Miss, I don't know hardly what to think of things now. Everything so changeable I can't bring nothin1 to remembrance to hold it* "I didn't do nothin1 when I was young but just knock around with the white folks* Oh Lord, when I was young I delighted in parties* Don't nothin1 like that worry me now* Donft go to no parades or nothing Don't have that on my brain like I did when I was young. I goes to church all the place I does go. "I ain't never had no accident. Don't get in the way to have no accident cause I know the age I is if I injure these bones there ain't anything more to me* "My mother had eight childrun and just my sister and me left* I can't do a whole day's work to save my life. I own this place and my sister-in- law gives me a little somethin' to eat. I used to be on the bureau but they took me off that.* 49 Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person interviewed ingpline Martin. Kansas City, Missouri Visiting at 1105 Louisiana St., Pine Blufff Arkansas Age 80 "Well, I was livinf then* I was born in Georgia. Honey, I donft know what year. I was born before the war* I was about ten when freedom coma. I donft remember when it started but I remember when it ended* I think I'm in the 80*a — that's the way I count it. "My master was dead and my mistress was a widow — Miss Sarah Childs* She had a guardeen* "When the war came, old mistress and her daughter refugeed to Miss- issippi. The guardeen wouldn't let me go, said I was too young* "My parents stayed on the plantation. My white folks1 house was vacant and the Yankees come and used it for headquarters* They never had put shoes on me and when the Yankees shot the chickens I'd run and get em* They didn't burn up nothin', just kill the hogs and chickens and give us plenty. "I didn't know what the war was about* You know chillun in them days didn't have as much sense as they got now* "After freedom, my folks stayed on the place and worked on the shares. I went to school rigjit after the war. I went every year till we left there. We come to this country in seventy something* We come here and stopped at the Cumains place* I worked in the field till I come to town bout fifty years ago* Since then I cooked some and done laundry work. *? "I married when I was seventeen. Bad six children* I been livin* in Kansas City twenty-three years. Hollowed ay boy up there, I like it up there a lot better than I do here. Oh lord, yes, there are a lot of colored people in Kansas City** 50 30799 51 Interviewer Parson interviewed^ Age 86 Miss Irene Bobert bob. R.7.D* f JoBie Mextla t, Arkansas "I was born up near Cotton Plant but took down near Helena to live* My parents named Sallie and Bob Martin. They had seven children, I heard mother say she was sold on a block in Mississippi when ana was twelve rears old* My father was a Creek Indian; he was dark* Mother was a Ghoctaw Indian; she was bright. Mother died when I was but a girl and left a fam- ily on my hands* I sent my baby brother and sister to school and I cooked on a boarding train* The railroad hands working on the tracks roomed and et on the train* They are all dead now and I'm 'lone in the world* "My greatest pleasure waa independence—make my money, go and spend it as I see fit* I wasn't popular with men. I never danced* I did sell herbs for diarrhea and piles and 'what ails you.* I don't sell no store* Folks too close to drug stores now* I had long straight hair nearly to my knees. It come out after a spell of typhoid fever* It never come in to do no good." (Baldheaded like a man end she shaves* She is a hermaphrodite; reason for never marrying*} "I made and saved up at one time twenty-three thousand dollars cooking and field work* I let it slip out from me in dribs. "I used to run from the Yankees* I've seen them go in droves along the road. They found old colored couple, went out, took their hog and made them barbecue it* They drove up a stob, nailed a piece to a tree and stacked their guns* They rested around till everything was ready* *• 52 They et at oae o'clocfc at night and after th* faaat drove ©a. laey wasn't so good to Negroes. Tfaey -as good to their own feelings, fhey et up all that old couple had to eat in their houae and the pig they raised. I reckon their owners give them more to eat. 2aey lived off aloae and the soldiers stopped there and woiked the old man and woman nearly to death, -Our master told us about freedom. His name was Master Martin. He come here from Mississippi. I don't recolleet his family. "I get help from the Welfare. I had paralyaia. I nevar got over my stroke * I ainft no f count to work** :r-t 53 Interviewer Miss Irene Robert son________ Person Interviewed Bess Mathls, Hazen» Arkansas Age 82 "I was born in De Sota County, Mississippi. My parents1 owners was Liars Hancock* Mama was a cook and field hand* Papa milked and worked in the field* Mama had jes' one child, that me* I had six childera* I got five livin1 • They knowed they free* It went round from mouth to mouth* Mama said Mars Hancock was good er slave holder as ever lived she recken* I heard her corns over that er good many times* But they wanted to be free* I jes1 heard em talk bout the Ku Klux* They said the Ku KLux made lot of em roamin' round go get a place to live and start workinf* They tell how they would ride at night and how scarry lookin* they was* I heard em say if Mars Hancock didnf t want to give em meat they got tree a coon or possum* Cut the tree down or climb it and then come home and cook it* They had no guns* They had dogs or could get one* Game helps out lots* nThe women chewed for their children after they weaned em* They don't none of em do that way now* Women wouldn't cut the baby's finger nails* They bite em off* They said if you cut its nails off he would steal* They bite its toe nails off, too* And if they wanted the children to have long pretty hair, they would trim the ends off on the new of the moon* That would cause the hair to grow long* White folks and darkies both done them things* "I been doin' whatever come to hand — faimin', cookin', washing ironin*. "I never expects to vote neither* I sure ain't voted* 3. . & "Conditions pretty bad sometimes. I don't know what cause it. Tea got beyond me now. I don't know what going become of the young folks, and they ain't studyin' it* They ain't kind. Sot no raisin* I call it. I tried to raise em to work and behave. They work some. Ify son is takin' care of me now.* Interviewer Mrs* JBerniee Bowden 1 ________ Person interviewed Caroline Matthews 818 Spruce Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 79 "Yes'm, I was born in slavery times in Mississippi* How, the only thing I remember was some soldiers come along on seme mules. I remember my mother and father was sittin* on the gallery and they say. 'Look a there. them's soldiers*f "And I remember when my parents run off* I was with Tem and I cried for fem to tote me* "My mother9 s first owner was named Armstrong* She said she was about eleven years old when he bought her* I heard her say they just changed around a lot* "Freedom was comin1 and her last owners had carried her to a state where it hadn*t come yet* That's right--it was Texas* "Her first owners was good* S3ae said they wouldnft flow the overseer to fbuke the women at all* "But her last owners was cruel* She said one day old missis was out in the yard and backed up and fell into a pan of hot water and when her husband come she told him and he tried to fbuke my mother* You know if somebody tryin1 to get the best of you and you can help yourself, you gwine do it# So mama throwed up her arm and old master hit it with a stick and cut it tad* So my parents run off. That was in Texas* * "She said we was a year comin1 back and I know they stopped at the Dillard place and made a crop* And they lost one child on the way--that was Kittie* 2* "I heard mama say they got hack here to Arkansas and got to the bureau and they freed *anu I know the War wasnft over yet f cause I know I heard mama say, f Just listen to them guns at Yicksburg*1 "When I was little, I was so sickly. I took down with the whoopin1 cough and I was sick so long* But mama say to the old woman what stayed with me, 'This gal gwine be here to see many a winter fcause she so stout in the jaws I canft give her no Biedieiae*1 "When I commenced to remember anything, I heered 'em talkin1 fbout Grant and Colfax. Used to wear buttons with Grant and Colfax* "But I was livin1 in Abraham Lincoln's time* Chillua them days didnft know no thin1. Why, woman, I was twelve years old ffore I knowed babies didn't come out a holler log* I used to go fround lookin1 in logs for a baby* "I had seven sisters and three brothers and they all dead but me* Had three younger than me. !Ehey was what they called freeborn chillun* "After freedom my parents worked for Major Ross* I, know when mama fixed us up to go to Sunday-school wefd go by Major Ross for him to see \xa. I know we'd go so early, sometimes he'd still be in his drawers* "I know one thing—when I was about sixteen years old things was good here* Ever1 body had a good living** 33SS&. £30909 57 Interviewer Iterson interviewed^ Age Up in BO9 a Miss Irene Bobertson Malindy Maxwell» Madison. Arkansas ttI was born close to Como and Sardisf Mississippi* My Blaster and mistress was Sam Shans and Hiss Cornelia Shans* I was born a slave# They owned mama and Master Rube Sanders owned pa* Neither owner wouldn't sell but they agreed to let ma and pa marry* They had a white preacher and they married out in the yard and had a big table full of weddinf supper, and the white folks at in the house* They had a big supper too* Ma said they had a big crowd* The preacher read the ceremony* Miss Cornelia give her a white dress and white shoes and Miss doe Wilburn give her a veil* Miss Cloe was some connection of Bube Sanders* "They had seven children* Ifm the oldest*^three of us living* ? C "After mancipation (ftn—mlinili hmfr pa went to see about marrying ma over agen and they told him that marriage would stand long as ever he lived* "Mama was sold at twelve years old in Atlanta, Georgia* Ma and pa was always field hands* Grandma got to be one of John Sanders leading hands to work mong the women folks* They said John Sanders was leanest man ever lived or died* According to pa's saying, Mars Ruben was a good sorter man* Pa said John Sanders was too mean a man to have a wife* He was mean to Miss Sarah* They said he beat her, Ms wife, like he beat a niggar woman* 58 5 "Miss Sarah say, fCome get your rations early Saturday morning, clean up your house, wash and iron, and we111 go to preaching tomorrow*** Sunday* I want you to all come out clean Monday morning.1 They go ask Mars John Sanders if they could go to preaching* I reeken from what they said they walked. Mars John, when they git their best clothes on, make them turn round and go to the field and work all day long. He was just that mean. Work all day long Sunday* *Miss Sarah was a Primitive Baptist and that is what I am till this day. Some folks call us Hardshell Baptist* The colored folks set in the back of the church. The women all set on one side and the men on the other. If they had a middle row, there was a railing dividing rnens* seats from the womens1 seats on the very same benches. "Miss Cloe, Miss Cornelia, and Miss Sarah cook up a whole lot of good things to eat and go to camp meeting. Sometimes they would stay a week and longer. They would take time bout letting the colored folks go long* We had big times. My grandpa took a gingercake cutter with him and sold gingercakes when they come out of the church. He could keep that money his own. I donft know how he sold them. My sister has the cutter now I expect. My girl has seen it. It was a foot long, this wide (5 inches), and fluted all around the edges, and had a handle like a biscuit cutter. They was about an inch thick. He made good ones and he sold all he could ever make* Grandpa took carpet sacks to carry his gingercakes in to sell them* I remember that mighty well* (The shape of the cutter was like this: (~~^f«) He purt nigji always got to go to all the camp meetings^ Folks got happy and shouted in them days. It would be when somebody got religion. At some big meetings they didnft shout* 59 "When I was bom they had a white mid-wife, Miss Martin* My mistress was in the cabin when X was born* I was born foot foremost and had a veil on my face and down on my body a piece* They call it a 'caul** Sometimes ^ I see forms and they vanish. I can see some out of one eye now* But I've always seen things when my sight was good* It is like when you are dreaming at night but I see them at times that plain in day* > e "I donft know how old I am but I was a good size girl when mancipation ^aaaatAjjatieinh come on* Hiss Cornelia had my age in her Bible* They done took me from the cabin and I was staying at the house. I slept on a trundle bed under Miss Cornelia1 s bed* Her bed was a teaster~~way high up, had a big stool to step on to go up in there and she had it curtained off* I had a good cotton bed and I slept good up under there* Her bed was corded with sea grass rope* It didn't have no slats like beds do now* "Colored folks slept on cotton beds and white folks—some of em at least—picked geese and made feather beds and down pillows* They carded and washed sheepfs wool and put in their quilts* Some of them, they'd be light and warm. Colored folks1 bed had one leg* Then it was holes hewed in the wall on the other three sides and wooden slats across it* Now that wasn't no bad bed* Some of them was big enough for three to sleep on good* When the children was small four could sleep easy cross ways, and they slept that way* "They had shelves and tables and chairs* They made chests and put things in there and set on top of it too* Ihite folks had fine chests to keep their bed clothes in* Some of them was made of oak* and pine, and cypress* They would cook walnut hulls and bark and paint them dark with the tea* 4*. "I recollect a rigjit smart of the Civil War* We was close nough to hear the roar and ramble and the big cannons shake the things in the house* I donft know where they was fighting—•& long ways off I guess* "I saw the soldiers scouting* They come most any time* They go in and take every drop of milk out of the churn* They took anything they could find and went away with it* I seen the cavalry come through* I thought they looked so pretty. Their. canteens was shining in the sun* Miss Cornelia told me to hide, the soldiers might take me on with them* I didn*t want to go* I was very well pleased there at Ktss Cornelia* s* *I seen the cavalry come* through that raised the fwhite sheet.1 I know now it must have been a white flag but they called it a white sheet to quit fighting* It was raised a short time after they passed and they said they was the ones raised it* I don9t know where it was. I recken it was a big white flag they rared up* It was so they would stop fighting* "Mars Sam Shan didnft go to no war; he hid out* He said it was a useless war, he wasn't going to get shot up for no use a tall, and he never went a step. He hid out. I donft know where* I know Charles would take the baskets off* Charles tended to the stock and the carriage. He drove the wagon and carriage. He fetched water and wood* He was a black boy* Mars Sam Shan said he wasn»t goiner loose his life for nothing* "Miss Cornelia would cook corn light bread and muffins and anything else they had to cook* Rations got down mi^ity scarce before it was done wid. They put the big round basket nearly big as a split cotton basket out on the back portico* Charles come and disappear with it* ttGhess and Charles was colored overseers* He didn't have white overseers. Miss Cornelia and Miss Cloe would walk the floor and cry 60 V 61 and I would walk between* I would cry feeling sorry for them, bat I didn't know why they cried so much* I know now it was squally times* War is horrible* "Mars Sam Shan come home, went down to the cabins—they was scattered over the fields—and told them the War was over* they was free but that they could stay* Then come some runners, white men* fhey was Yankee men* I know that now. They say you oust get pay or go off* We stayed that year* Another man went to pa and said he would give him half of what he made. He got us all up and we went to Pleasant Hill* We done tolerable well* "Then he tried to buy a house and fire acres and got beat out of it* The minor heirs come and took it* I never lernt in books till I went to school* Seem like things was in a confusion after X got big nough for that* I'd sweep and rake and cook and wash the dishes, card, spin, hoe, scour the floors and tables. I would knit at night heap of times* We'd sing some at night* "Colored folks couldn't read so they couldn't sing at church lessen they learnt the songs by hearing them at home* Colored folks would meet and sing and pray and preach at the cabins* "My first teacher was a white man, Mr. Babe Willroy. I went to him several short sessions and on rainy days and cold days I couldn't work in the field. I worked in the field all my life* Cook out in the winter-back to the field in the spring till fall again, "Well, I jes' had this one girl. I carried her along with me* She would play round and then she was a heap of help* She is mighty good to me now* «• 62 "I never seen a Ku KLux in my life* How, I eouldnft tell you about them. "My parents9 names was Lou Sanders and Anthony Sanders* Mavs mother was a Rockmore and her husband was a Cherokee Indian. I recollect them well* He was a free man and was fixing to buy her freedom* Her young mistress married Mr* Joe Bues and she heired her* Mr. Joe Bues drunk her up and they come and got her and took her off* They run her to Memphis before his wife could write to her pa* He was Mars Hockmore* "Grandma was put on a block and sold fore grandpa could cumerlate nough cash to buy her for his wife* Grandma never seen her ma no more* Grandpa followed her and Mr* Sam Shans bought her and took her to Miss- issippi with a lot more he bought* "My pa's ma b'long to John Sanders and grandpa b'long to Rube Sanders* They was brothers* Rube Sanders bought grandpa from Enoch Bobo down in Mississippi. The Bobofs had a heap of slaves and land* Now, he was the one that sold gingercakes* He was a blacksmith too* Both my grandpas was blacksmiths but my Indian grandpa could make wagons, trays, bowls, shoes, and things out of wood too* Him being a free man made his living that way* But he never could cumolate enough to buy grandma* "My other grandma was blacker than I am and grandpa too* When grandpa died he was carried back to the Bobo graveyard and buried on Enoch Bobo's place. It was his request all his slaves be brought back and buried on his land* I went to the burying. I recollect that but ma and pa had to ask could we go* We all got to go~~all who wanted to go* It was a big crowd* It was John Sanders let us gp mean as he was* 63 "Miss Cornelia had the cistern cleaned out ana they packed up their pretty china dishes and silver in a big flat sorter box* Charles took them down a ladder to the bottom of the dark cistern and pat dirt over it all and then scattered some old rubbish round, took the ladder out* The Yankees never much as peared to see that old open cistern* I donft know if they buried money or not* They packed up a lot of. nice things* It wasn't touched till after the War was over* *I been farming and cooking all ay life* I worked for Major Black, Mr. Ben Tolbert, Mr* Williams at Pleasant Hillt Mississippi* X married and long time after come to Arkansas* They said you could raise stock here*** no fence law* *I get #8 and commodities because X am blind* X live with my daughter here** 30576 #651 64 Interviewer Person, interviewed^, A&& 63 Miss Irene Robertson Hellie Maxwell. Bisooe. Arkansas "Mama was Harriett Baldwin* Sao was born in Virginia* Bar owners was Mistress Mollie Fisher and Master Coon Fisher* It was so cold one winter that they burned up their furniture keeping a fire* Said seemed like they would freeze in spite of what all they could do* "Grandpa was sold away from grandma and three children* He didn't want to be sold nary bit* When they would be talking about selling him he go hide under the house* They go on off* He'd came oat* when he was sold he went under there* He come out and went on off when they found him and told him he was sold to this man* Grandma said he was obedient* They never hit him* He was her best husband* They never sold grandma and she couldn't 'count for him being let go* Grandma had another husband after freedom and two more children* They left there in a crowd and all come to Arkansas* Grandma was a cook for the field hands* She had charge of ringing a big dinner-bell hung up in a tree* She was black as charcoal* Mama and grandma said faster Goon and old Mistress Mollie was good to them* That the reason grandpa would go under the house* He didn't want to be sold* He never was seen no more by them* •?Grandma said sometimes the meals was carried to the fields and they fed the children out of troughs* They took all the children to the spring and set them in a row* They had a tubful of water and they washed them and dried them and put on their clean clothes* They used homemade lye soap V 65 and greased them with tallow and mutton suet. That laade them shine* fhey kept them greased so their knees and knuckles would raff up and bleed* "Grandma and mama stopped at Jourche Sam* fhey was so glad to be free and go about* Then it scared them to hear talk of being sold* It diTided them and some owners was mean* «In my time if I done wrong most any grown person whoop me* Then mama find it out, she give me another one* I got a double whooping* "Times is powerful bad to raise up a family* Drinking and gambling, and it takes too much to feed a family now* Times is so much harder that way then when I was growing** 30376 66 Ttitarvlewsr Mlaa Sallle C> Miner Person interviewed Ann-mp< marksTllle. Jutommm Age 08 "I was born at Cabin Creek (Lamar now. but I still call it Cabin Creek. I can't call it anything else)* I was sold with my mother when I was a little girl and lived with our white folks until after the war and was freed* We lived on a femu My father belong to another fam- ily, a neighbor of ours* We all lived with the white folks. My aotlter took care of all of then* They was always as good as they could be to us and after the war we stayed on with the white folks who cwaed my father and worked on the farm for him* His master gave us half of everything we made until we could get started our selves, then our white folks told my father to homestead a place near him, and he did* We lived there until after father died* We paid taxes and lived just like the white folks* We did what the white folks told us to do end never lost a thing by doing it* After I married my husband worked at the mill for your father and made a living for me and I worked for the white folks. How I am too old to cook but I have a few washin's for the white folks and am getting my old age pension that helps me a lot. "I don't know what I think about the young generation* I em at my stopping place* "The songs we sang were 'Come ye that love the Lord end let your joys be known1 ?When You and I Were Young, Maggie' 'Juaaita• *• 67 •Just Before the Battle, Mother' 'Darling Bellie Gray' •Carry Mb Baek to Old Virginia* •Old Black Joe* Of course we saag »Bixie». We had to sing that, it was the leading aoag.* 30901 68 7 Interviewer Miss Irene Bobertson Person interviewed Joe Mayes, Madison* Arkansas Age ? rtI was born a slave two years* I never will forget man come and told mother she was free* She cooked* She never worked in the field till after freedom* In a few days another man come and made them leave* They couldnft hold them in Kentucky* The owners give her provisions, meat, lasses, etc* They give her her clothes* She had four children and I was her youngest* The two oldest was girls* Father was dead* I don't remember him* Mother finally made arrangements to go to Will Bennett's place* "Another thing I remember: Frank Hayes sold mother to Isaac Tremble after she was free* She didn't know she was free* Neither did Isaac Tremble* I don't know whether Frank Hayes was honest or not* The part I remember was that us boys stood on the block and never was parted from her* We had to leave our sisters* One was sold to Miss Margaret Moxley, the other to Miss Almyra Winder. (He said "Miss" but they may have been widows* He didn't seem to know — ed*} Father belong to a Master Mills* All our family got together after we found out we had been freed* "The Ku KLuz: I went to the well little after dark* It was a good piece from our house* I looked up and saw a man with a robe and cap on* It scared me nearly to death. I nearly fell out. I had heard about the 'booger man' and learned better then* But there he was. I had heard a lot about Ku KLux. 69 "There was a big gourd hanging up by the well* We kept it there * There was a bucket full up* He said, fOive me water.* I handed over the gourd full* He done something with it* He kept me handing him water* Be said, fHold my crown and draw me up another bucket full*1 I was so seared I lit out hard as I could run* It was dark enough to hide me when I got a piece out of his way* "The owners was pretty good to mother to be slavery* She had clothes and enough to eat all the time* I used to go back to see all our white folks in Kentucky* They are about all dead now I expect* Mother was glad to be free but for a long time her life was harder* nA£ter we got up larger she got along better* I worked on a steamboat twelve or thirteen years* X was a roustabout and freight picker* I was on passenger boats mostly but they carried freight* I went to school some* I always had colored teachers* I farmed at Hughes and Madison ever since excepting one year in Mississippi* "I live alone* I get $8 and commodities from the Sociable Welfare* wThe young folks would do better, work better, if they could get work all time* It is hard at times to get work right now* The times is all right* Better everything but work* I know colored folks is bad manager** That has been bad on us always* nI worked on boats from Bvansville, St* Louis, Memphis to Hew Orleans mostly. It was hard work but a fine living. I was stout then** ;0680 ^< 70 Interviewer Mr** Beraice Bo«den Person interviewed. Am n wsr. Occupation JRnieter *I am seventy-six. * Course I aaa young in slavery times, but I caa remember soeie things. Z remember how they used to feed ua. Put milk aad bread or poke salad and corn-meal dumplin's in a trough and give yea a wooden spoon and all the children aat together. "We stayed with oar old master fourteen years. They were good folks and treated us right* My old master's name aaa Sam Meeks—in Longriew, Drew County, Arkansas, down here below Hontieello* *I got a letter here about a month ago from the daughter of my young mistress. X wrote to my young mistress and aha waa dead, so her daughter got the letter. She answered it and seat ma a dollar and asked ma waa Z oa the Old Age Pension list. "As far as Z know, Z am the onliest one of the old darkies living that belonged to Sam Heeks. "I remember when the Ku KLux ran in oa my old master. That waa after the War. He was at the breakfast table with hie wife* Ton know in them days they didn't hare looks aad keys. Bad a hole bored through a board and put a peg in it, end Z know the Ku KLux come up and stuck a gaa through the auger hole and shot at old master bat missed him* He ran to the dear aad shot at the Ku ELux. Z knew aa children foaad ana of 'am down at the spring bathin' his leg where old master had shot him* "Oh: they ware good folks and treated aa right.* W677 . 71 POUKLORB SUBJECTS Name of interviewer Mrs* Berniee Bowden__________ Subject Superstitions______._--_______,_„ Story - Information (If not enough space on this page, add page} "I remember there was an old man called Billy Mann lived down here at Noble Lake a He said he could 'give you a hand*1 If you and your wife wasn't gettin' along very well and you wanted to get soraebody else, he said he could 'give you a hand* and that would enable you to get anybody you wanted* That's what he said* "And I've heard 'em say they could make a ring around you and you couldn't get out* *I don't believe in that though 'cause I'm in the ministerial work and it don't pay me to believe in things like that* That is the work of the devil*" This information given by Jesse Ifeeks ( ) Place of residence 707 Sim Street« Pine Bluff, Arkansas Occupation________________Minister Age 76 •v 9 3i b Interviewer Person interviewed. Age 73 Miaa Irene Bobertson Jaff Itotoalf R.F.D., Brinkley, Arkansas 72 wBdy mother's name was Julia Metcalf and ay father*s name was Jim Metcalf. They belong to an old bachelor named Bill Metcalf* I think I was born in Lee County, Mississippi* They did not leave when the war was over> They stayed on the Bill Metcalf place till they died* I recken I do remember him* "I can't tell you ?bout the war nor slavery* I donft know a thing ?bout it* I heard but I couldn't tell you it been so long ago* They didn't expect nothing but freedom* They got along in the Heoonstruetioa days about like they had been getting along* Seemed like they didn't know much about the war* They heard they was free* I don't remember the Ku ELux Klan* I heard old folks talk 'bout it* WI don't know if my father ever voted but I guess he did* I have voted but I don't vote now* In part I 'proves of the women votin'* I think the men outer vote and support" his family fur as he can. "I come here in 1914 from Mississippi. I got busted fairainf. I knowed a heap o' people said they was doing so well I come too* I come on the train. nI ain't got no home, no land* I got a hog* No garden* Two times in the year now is hard *¦*• winter and summer* In some ways times is better* In some ways they is worser* fhen a trade used to be made 2. to let you have provisions, you know you would not starve* Hew if you can't get work you 'bout starve and can** ge%a© credit* Crops been good last few years and prices fair fur it* But money won't buy a©thin» now* Everything is so high. Meat is so high. Working man have to eat meat. If he don't he get weak. "The young folks do work. They can't save much farmia'. If they could do public work between times it be better. I had a hard time in July and iugust, I got six children, they grown and gone. My wife is 72 years old. She ain't no 'count for work no more. The Government give me an' her $10 a month between us two. Her name is Hannah Hetcalf. "I wish I did know somethin' to tell you, lady, 'bout the Civil War and the slavery times. I done forgot 'bout all I heard »ea talkin'. When you see Hannah she might know somethin'." r'4 Interviewer Mrs* Bernloe Bowden Person interviewed Herdy Miller 702£ W, Second Avenue f Pine Bluff f Arkansas Age 85 Occupation Yardman "Mistress, I911 tell you what my mother said* She said she birthed n* on Christmas morning in 1852 in Sumpter County, Georgia* It was on her old master's place. Bright Herring was his name* Old mistress9 name was Miss Lizzie. My father belonged to a different owner* f9Mac McClendon and John Mourning was two nigger traders and they brought my mother and sister Nancy and sister Liza and my sister Anna and Hardy Miller — thatfs me — out here on the train from imericus, Georgia to Memphis and put us on a steamboat and brought us here to Pine Bluff and sold me to Dr. Pope* He was a poor white man and he wanted a pair of nig- gers. He bought me and Laura Beckwith* In them days a doctor examined you and if your heart was sound and your lungs was sound and you didnft have no broken bones — have to pay one hundred dollars for every year you was old. That was in 1862 and I was ten years old so they sold me for one thousand dollars and one thousand dollars for Laura cause she was sound too* Carried us down to Monti cello and when I got free my mammy came after me* "Fore I left Georgia, my daddy belonged to a man named Bill Ramsey* You see niggers used the name of their masters* WI can remember when I was a boy Bill Ramsey set my father free and give him a free pass and anybody hire him have to pay just like they pay a digger now. My daddy hired my maraay from her master# My mammy was her master *s daughter by a colored woman* 2# /O *My daddy had a hoes named Selem and had a cart and he would take me and my mammy and my sister Liza and go to Amerieus and buy rations for the next week* «X member when the war started in 1861 my mammy hired me out to Mrs# Brewer and she used to git after me and say, fYou better do that good or I* 11 whip you* My husband gone to war now on account of you niggers and itfs a pity you niggers ever been cause he may get killed and Ifll never see him again.f *I member see in9 General Bragg* s men and General Steele and General Marmaduke* Had a fight down at Mark1 a Mill* We just lived six miles from there• Seen the Yankees cominf by along the big public road# The Yankees whipped and fought em so strong they didnft have time to bury the dead. We could see the buzzards and carrion crows* I used to hear old mistress say, fThere goes the buzzards, done et all the meat off*1 I used to go to mill and we could see the bones* Used to get out and look at their teeth* No ma'm, I wasn't scared, the white boys was with me* "Dr. Pope was good to ma, better to me than he was to Master Walter and Master Billy and my young Miss, Aurelia, cause me and Laura was scared of em and we tried to do everything they wanted* "When the war ended in 1865 we was out in the field get tin1 pump- kins* Old master come out and said, 'Hardy, you and Laura is free now* You can stay or you can go and live with somebody else*' We stayed till 18S8 and then our mammies come after us* I was seventeen* nAfter freedom my mammy sent me to school. Teacher's name was W* H* Young* Name was William Young but he went under the head of W. H* Young* 76 *I aent to school four years and than X got toe old* Z learned a whole lot* Learned to read and spell and figger. I dona pretty good* I learned how to add and multiply and how to cancel and how to work square root* ••What I've been doin* all my life is farmln* down at Falrfield on the Murphy place* "Tote? Good Lord! I done sore votin*. Voted for all the Presidents, Yankees wouldn't let us vote Democrat, had to rota Republican. They'd aa there agitatin** Stand right there and tall aa the onaa to vote for* I done quit votin** I voted for Ooolidge — wa called him College -# that*a the last votin' I did* One of my friends, Levi Hunter, he was a eolorad magistrate down at Jairf ield* "Ku KLux? What you talkin* about? Ku KLux come to our houaa* My sister Sllen'a husband went to war on the Yankee side durin* the war •* on the Republican side and fought the Democrats* "After the war the Ku Etux cone and got the colored folks what fought and killed am* I aaw em kill, a nigger right off his mule, fell off on his sack of corn and the old male kep* on gain*, "En ELux used to wear big old long robe with bunches of cotton sawed all over it* I member one time wa warn havin* church and a Ku Kluz was hid up in the scaffold* The preacher waa readin* the Bible and tellla* the folks there was a man sent from Ood and say an angel he here directly* Just then the Ku Kluz fall down and the niggers all thought 'twas the angel and they got up and flew* •Ku ELux used to coma to the church wall and ask for a drink and say, 'I ain't had a bit of water since I fought the battle of Shiloh.* * ( f might as well tell the truth -~ had just as good a time when I was a slave as when I was free. Had all the hog meat and milk and everything else to eat* "I member one time when old master wasn't at home the Yankees come and say to old mistress, fMadamf we is foragin,#f Old mistress say, 'My husband ain't home; I canft let you,1 Yankees say, 'Well, we're goin' to anyway.f They sn*y, 'Where you keep your milk and butter?f Old mistress standin1 up there, her face as red as blood and say, 'I haven't any milk or butter to spare.1 But the Yankees would hunt till they found it* "After a battle when the dead soldiers was layin' around and didnft have on no uniform cause some of the other soldiers took em, I've heard the old folk what knowed say you could tell the Yankees from the Rebels cause the Yankees had blue veins on their bellies and the Rebels didn't* "Now you want me to tell you bout this young nigger generation? I never thought I'd live to see this young generation come out and do as well as they is doin'* Ifm goinf tell you the truth* When I was young, boys and girls used to wear long white shirt come down to their ankles, cause it would shrink, with a hole cut out for their head* I think they is doin' a whole lot better* Got better clothes* Hmost look as well as the white folks* I just say the niggers dressin' better than the white folks used to* *Then I see some niggers got automobiles* Just been free bout seventy-two years and some of em act in * just like white folks now* "Well, good-bye — if I don't see you again 1*11 meet you in Heaven*w 30312 m*i^ Interviewer Person interviewed Beulah Sherwood Hagg H. K. Miller 1513 State Street, Little Bock, Arkansas Age 86 78 ''¦'No ma'am, it will not bother me one bit if you want to have a long visit with me. . . . Yes, I was a little busy, but it can wait* I was getting my dishes ready for a party tomorrow night* ''Yes ma'am, I was born during slavery* I was born at a little place called Port Valley in Georgia, July 25, 1851, Fort Valley is about 30 miles from Macon. I came to Little Rock in 1873. My old mistress was a widow. As well as I can remember she did not have any slaves but my father and mother and the six children* Mb ma'am, her name was not Miller, it was lade. • . • there did I get my name, then? It came from my grandfather on my father's side. . . . fell, now, Miss, I can't tell you where he got that name* from some white master, I reckon. "We got free in Georgia June 15, 1865. I»ll never forget that date* What I mean is, that was the day the big freedom came* But we didn't know it and just worked on* My father was a shoe- maker for old mistress. Only one in town, far as I recollect. Be made a lot of money for mistress. Mother was houseworker for her. As fast as us children got big enough to hire out, she leased us to anybody who would pay for our hire* I was put out with another widow woman who lived about 20 miles. She worked me on her cotton plantation. Old mistress sold one of my sisters; took cotton for pay* 2. 79 I remember hearing them tell about the big price she brought because cotton was so high* Old mistress got 15 bales of cotton for sister, and it was only a few days till freedom came and the man who had traded all them bales of cotton lost my sister, but old mistress kept the cotton* She was smart, wasn't she? She knew freedom was right there* Sister came right back to my parents* ;/Just give me time, miss, and I'll tell you the whole story. This woman what had me hired tried to run away and take all her slaves along* I don't remember just how many, but a dozen or more* Lots of white folks tried to run away and hide their slaves until after the Yankee soldiers had been through the town searching for them what had not been set free* She was trying to get to the woods country* But she got nervous and scared and done the worst thing she could* She run right into a Yankee camp* Course they asked where we all belonged and sent us where we belonged* They had always taught us to be scared of the Yankees* I remember Just as well when I got back to where my mother was she asked me: "Boy, why you come hers? Donft you know old mistress got you rented out? Youf re go in1 be whipped for sure.* I told her, no, now we got freedom. That was the first they had heard* So then she had to tell my father and mother. She tole them how they have no place to go, no money, - nothing to start life on; they bet- ter stay on with her. So my father and mother kept on with her; she let them have a part of what they made; she took some for board, as was right. The white ladies what had me between them fixed it up that I would serve out the time I was rented out for* It was about six months more* My parents saved money and we all went to a farm* 5. 80 I stayed with them till I was 19 years old* Of course they got all the money I made* I married when I was 20, still living in Georgia* fe tried to farm on shares* A man from Arkansas came there, get- ting up a colony of colored to go to Arkansas to farm* Told big tales of fine land with nobody to work it* Not half as many Negroes in Arkansas as in Georgia* He and my wife joined up to go* "Well, ma'am, I didnft get enough education to be what you call a educated man* l$y father paid for a six months night course for me after peace* I learned to read and write and figure a little* I have used my tablespoon full of brains ever since, always adding to that start* I learned everything I could from the many white friends I have had* Any way, miss, I have known enough to make a good living all these years* /;Now I111 get on with the story* First work I got in Arkansas was working on a farm; me and her both; we always tried to stay together* We could not make anything on the Garner farm, and it was mighty unhealthy down in Fourche bottoms* I carried her back to Little Hock and I got work as house man in the Bunch home* From there I went to the home of Dudley S* Jones and stayed there 28 years* That was the beginning of my catering* I just naturally took to cooking and serving* White folks was still used to having colored wait on them and they liked my style* Mr* Jones was so kind* He told his friends about how I could plan big dinners and banquets; then cook and serve them. Bight soon I was handling most of the big swell weddings for the society folks* Child, if I could call off the aames of the folks I have served, it would be mighty near everybody 81 of any consequence in Little Bock for more than 55 years; Yes ma1 am, I'm now being called on to serve the grandchildren of my first cus- tomers • » 'During the 28 years I lived in Mr* Jones9 family I was serving banquets, big public dinners, all kinds of big affairs* I have had the spring and fall banquets for the Scottish Bite Masons for moire than 41 years* I have served nearly all the Governor's banquets, college graduation and reunion parties; I took care of President Roosevelt - not this one, but Teddy ~* Served about 600 that day* toy big parties for colored people? • • • Yes ma'am! Donft you remember when Booker T. Washington was here? . ? • No ma1 am* White folks didn't have a thing to do with it, excepting the city let us have the new fire station* It was just finished but the fire engines ain't moved in yet* I served about 600 that time* Yes ma'am, there was a lot of white folks there* Then, I have been called to other places to do the catering* Lonoke, Bent on, Malvern, Conway - a heap of places like that* 7/No miss, I didn't always have all the catering business; oh, no* There was Mr. Rossner* He was a fine man* White gentleman* I used to help him a lot* But when he sold out to Bott, I got a lot of what business Mr. Rossner had had* Mr. Bott was a Jew. All that time my wife was my best helper. I took a young colored fellow named Ireeling Alexander and taught him the business* He never been able to make it go on his own, but does fine working on salary. He has a cafeteria now. Well thank you miss, speaking about my home like that. Yes tta'am, I sure do own it. Fifty-two years I been living right here* s. 82 First I bought the lot; it took me two years to pay for it. Herb I build a little house . The big pin oak trees out front was only saplings when I set them out* (Tome out in the back yard and see my pecan tree. • • . It is a giant, ainft it? Yes ma'am, it was a tiny thing when I set it out fifty-two years ago* Our only child was born in this house9 - a dear daughter - and her three babies were bom here too* After my wife and daughter died, me and the children kept on trying to keep the home together* I have taught them the catering business* Both granddaughters are high school graduates* The boy is in Mexico* Before he went he signed his name to a check and said: "Here, grand pa. You ainft going to want for a thing while I'm gone* If something happens to your catering business, or you get so you canft work, fill this in for whatever you need*n Bat. thank the good Lord, I9m still going strong* Nobody has ever had to take care of H. K. Miller* Now let me tell you something else about this place* For more than ten years I have been paying #64*64 every year for my part of that asphalt paving you see out in front. Yes ma'am, the lot is 50 foot front, and I am paying for only half of it; from my curb line to the middle of the street* Maybe if I live long v enough Ifll get it paid for sometime* *I haven't tried to lay by much money* I don't suppose there is any other colored man - uneducated like me - what has done more for his community* I have given as high as $80 and $100 at one time to help out on the church debt or when they wanted to build. I always help in times of floods and things like that. I've helped many white persons in ay lifetime. 83 Well, now, IfU tell you what I think about the voting system* I think this* Of course we are still in subjection to the white people; they are in the majority and have most of the government on their side* But I think that, erf - ert - well Ifll tell you, while it all right for them to be at the head of things, they ought to do what is right* Being educated, they ought to know right from wrong* I believe in the Bible, miss* Look here* This little book - Gospel of St* John - has been carried in my pocket every day for years and years. And I never miss a day reading it* I donft see how some people can be so unjust* I guess they never read their Bible* The reason I been able to make my three-score years and ten is because I obeys what the Good Book says* /xNow, let me see* I can remember that I been voting mighty near ever since I been here* I never had any trouble voting* I have never been objected from voting that I remember of* /;Now you ask about what I think of the young people* Well, I tell you. I think really that the young people of today had better begin to check up, a little. They are going too fast. They don't seem to have enough consideration. When I see so many killed in automobile accidents, and know that drinking is the cause of so many car accidents, - well, yes ma'am, drinking sure does have a lot to do with it. I think they should more consider the way they going to make a living. Hake a rule to look before they act* Another thing - the education being given them ~ they are not taking advantage of it* If they would profit by what they learn they could benefit theirselves. A lot of them now spend heap of time trying to get to be doctors and lawyers and like that. That is a mistake* There is not enough work among colored people to support them* 7. 84 I know* Negroes do not have confidence in their race for this kind of business. No ma'am* Colored will go for a white doctor and white lawyer f cause they think they know more about that kind of business# I would recommend as the best means of making a living for colored young people is to select some kind of work that is absolutely nec- essary to be done and then do it honestly. The trades, carpentering, paper hanging, painting, garage work. Some work that white people need to have done, and they just as soon colored do it as white. White folks ain't never going to have Negro doctors and lawyers, I reckon. That's the reason I took up catering - even that long ago# Fifty-five years ago I knew to look around and find some work that white folks would need done. There's where your living comes from. 7Yes, miss, my business is slack - falling off, as you say* Catering is not what it used to be. You see, SO or 40 years ago, people's homes were grand and big; big dining rooms, built for parties and banquets. But for the big affairs with 500 or 600 guests, they went to the hotels. Sven the hotels had to rent my dishes, silver and linens. • • . Oh, lord, yes, miss. I always had my own* It took me ten years to save enough money to start out with my first 500 of every- thing, • . . You want to see them? .... Sure, I keep them here at home. . . . Look. Here's my silver chests, all packed to go. I have them divided into different sizes. This one has fifty of every kind of silver, so if fifty guests are to be provided for# I keep my linens, plates of different sizes, glasses and everything the same way* A 200- guest outfit is packed in those chests over there* Ho, mafam, I don't kave naich trouble of losing silver, because it all has my initials on; e. 85 looks H.K.M. on every piece• Heap of dishes are broken every time I A A have a big catering* I found one plate yesterday - the last of a full pattern I had fifteen years ago. About every ten years is a complete turnover of china* Glassware goes faster, and of course, the linen is the greatest overhead* Yes ma'am, as I was telling you, catering is slack because of clubs. So many women take their parties to clubs now* Another thing, the style of food has changed. In those old days, the table was loaded with three four meats, fish, half dozen vegetable dishes, entrees, different kinds of wine, and an array of desserts. Now what do they have? Liquid punch, frozen punch and cakes. In June I had a wedding party for 400, and that's all they served. I had to have 30 punch bowls, but borrowed about half from my white friends. 'You have got that wrong about me living with my grandchildren. No ma'am! They are living with me. They make their home with me. I donft expect ever to marry again* I'm 86. In my will I am leaving everything I have to my three grandchildren. Well, miss, you're looking young and blooming. Guess your husband is right proud of you? Say you're a widow? Well, now, my goodness. Some of these days a fine man going to find you and then, er---er, lady, let me cater for the wedding? u 30782 3d ~v ^w** Samuel S# Taylor Henry Kirk Miller 1513 State Streetf Little Rock, Arkansas *I am eighty-six years old—-eighty-six years and six months* I was born July 25, 1851* I was a slave* Didnft get free till June 1865* I was a boy fifteen years old when I got free* "I have been living in this house fifty years* I have been living in Arkansas ever since 1873# fhat makes about sixty-five years* "The engineer who got killed in that wreck the other day (a wreck which occurred February 7, 1938f Monday morning at three and in which the engineer and five other people were killed} came right from my town, Fort Valley, Georgia* I came here from there in 1873* I donft know anybody living in Fort Valley now unless itfs my own folks* And I donft fspect Ifd know them now* When I got married and left there, I was only twenty-one years old* Parents and Relatives "My mother and father were born in South Carolina* After their master and missis married they came to Georgia* Back there I don't know* Vhen I remember anything they were in Georgia* They said they came from South Carolina to Georgia* I donft know how they came* Both of my parents were Negroes. They came to Axkansas ahead of me* I have their pictures*11 (He carried me into the parlor and showed me life-sized bust portraits of his mother and father*) 2. 87 "There were eighteen of us: six hoys and twelve girls* They are all dead now but myself and one sister* She lives in Atlanta, Georgia* I am older than she is* Occupation "I am a caterer* I have been serving the Scottish fit phi o Masons in their annual reunion every six months for forty-one years* We are going to the Seventh Street Entrance this Friday. One of the orders will have a dinner and I am going down to serve It* I served the dinner for Teddy Roosevelt there, thirty years ago* This Roosevelt is a cousin of his* Masters "My parents1 master was named Wade* When he died, I was bo little that they had to lift me up to let me see into the coffin so I could look at him* I went to his daughter* My name is after my father's father* My grandfather was named Miller* I took his name* Be was a white man* "Wade's daughter was named Biley, but I keep my grandfather1 s name* My mother and father were then transferred to the Bileya too, and they took the name of Biley* It was after freedom that I took the name Miller from my original people* Haven Riley's father was my brother•* (Haven Hiley lives in Little Bock and was formerly an instructor at Philander Soith College. Now he is a public stenographer and a private teacher*) "Wade owned all of my brothers and sisters and parents and some of my kin—father*a sister and brother* There might have been some more I eantt remember. Wade was a faxmer* "I remember once when my mother and father were going to the field to work9 I went with them as usual* That was before Vade died and his daughter drew us. s. 88 "My wife died six years ago* If she had lired till tomorrow, she would have been married to me sixty years* She died on the tenth of February and we were married on the sixth* We just lacked five years of being married sixty years when she died* Food "For food, I donft know anything more than bread and meat* Meal, meat, molasses were the only rations I saw* In those times the white people had what was known as the white people's house and then what was known as nigger quarters* The children that weren't big enough to work were fed at the white people's house* We got milk and mush for breakfast* When they boiled cabbage we got bread and pot-liquor*, For supper we got milk and bread* They had cows and the children were fed mostly on milk and mush or milk and bread* We used to bake a corn cake in the ashes, ash cake, and put it in the milk* "The chickens used to lay out in the barn* If we children would find the nests and bring the eggs in our missis would give us a biscuit, and we always got biscuits for Christmas* Houses in the Negro Quarters "In the nigger quarters there were nothing but log houses* I don't remember any house other than a log house* They'd just go out in the woods and get logs and put up a log house* Put dirt and mud or clay in the cracks to seal it* Notch the logs in the end to hitch them at corners* Nailed planks at the end of the logs to make a door frame* "My people all ate and cooked and lived in the same room* Some of the slaves had dirt floors and seme of them had plank floors* 89 "Food was kept in the house in a sort of box or chest, built in the wall sometimes* Mostly it was kept on the table* "In cooking they had a round oven made like a pot only the bottom would be flat* It had an iron top* The oven was a bought oven* It was shaped like a barrel* The top lifted up* Coal was placed under the oven and a little on top* Tables and Chairs "Tables were just boards nailed together* Nothing but planks nailed together* I don't remember nothing but homemade benches for chairs# They sometimes made platted or split-bottom chairs out of white oak* Strips of oak were seven feet long* They put them in water so they would bend easily and wove them while they were flexible and fresh* The whole chair bottom was made out of one strip just like in easing* Those chairs were stouter than the chairs they make now** (To be continued) 30334 90 Interviewer______Mrs. Annie L. LaCotta Person interviewed_____Matilda Miller Humphrey, Ark. Age 79 The day of the interview Matilda, a nice clean-looking Negro woman, was in bed, suffering from some kind of a pain in her head. She lives in a little two-room unpainted boxed house beside the highway in Humphrey. Her house is almost in the shadow of the big tank which was put up recently when the town acquired its water system. When told that the visitor wanted to talk with her about her early life, Matilda said, "Well, honey, I'll tell you all I can, but you see, I was just a little girl when the war was, but I've heard my mother tell lots of things about then. *I was born a slave; my mother and daddy both were owned by Judge Richard Gamble at Crockett's Bluff. I was born at BooneHill - about twelve miles north of DeWitt - and how come it named Boone Hill, that farm was my young mistress's. Her papa give it to her, just like he give me to her when I was lit- tle, and after she married Mr. Oliver Boone and lived there the farm always went by the name of 'Boone Hill.* The house is right on top of a hill, you know, it shure was a pretty place when Miss Georgia lived there, with great big Magnolia trees all in the front yard. I belonged to Miss Georgia, my young mis- tress, and when the niggers were freed my mamma staid on with her. She was right there when both of his ehillun were born, 91 I Mr. John Boone and Miss Mary, too. I nursed both of them chil- lun. You know who Miss Mary is now, don't you? Yes'um, she's Mr. Lester Black's wife and he's good, too. "I was de oney child my mother had till twelve years af- ter the surrender* You see, my papa went off with Yankees and didn't come back till twelve years after we was free, and then I had some brothers and sisters. Exactly nine months from the day my daddy eome home, I had a baby brother born. My mother said she knew my daddy had been married or took up with some other woman, but she hadn't got a divorce and still counted him her husband. They lived for a long time with our white folks, for they were good to us, but you know after the boys and girls got grown and began to marry and live in different places, my parents wanted to be with them and left the white folks. nNo mam, I didn't see any fighting, but we could hear the big guns booming away off in the distance. I was married when I was 21 to Henry Miller and lived with him 51 years and ten months; he died from old age and hard work. We had two chillun, both girls. One of them lives here with me in that other room. Mamma said the Yankees told the Negroes when they got em freed they'd give em a mule and a farm or maybe a part of the planta- tion they'd been working on for their white folks. She thought they just told em that to make them dissatisfied and to get more of them 'to join up with em' and they were dressed in pretty blue clothes and had nice horses and that made lots of the Negro men go with them. None of em ever got anything but what their white folks give em, and just lots and lots of em never come back after 3. 92 the war cause the Yankees put them in front where the shooting was and they was killed. My husband Henry Miller died four years ago. He followed public work and made plenty of money but he V had lots of friends and his money went easy too. I don't spect I'll live long for this hurtin' in my head is awful bad sometime.w 30m* 30908 93 Interviewer Person interviewed Age Born in 1868 Miss Irene Robertson Nathan Miller> Madison* Arkansas "lady, Ifll tell you *feat I know but it wonft nigh fill your book* "I was born in 1862 south of Ioekeaburg, Arkansas* My parents was Marther and Burl Miller* "They told me their owners come here from North Carolina in 1820* They owned lots of slaves and lots of land# Mother was medium light-— about my color* See, I'm mixed* My hair is white * X heard mother say she never worked in the field* Father was a blacksmith on the place* Ed wasn't a slave* His grandfather willed him free at ten years of age* It was tried in the Supreme Court* They set him free* Said they couldnft break the dead manfs will* "My father was a real bright colored man. It caused some dis- turbance. Father went back and forth to Kansas* They tried to make him leave if he was a free mpn* They said I would have to be a slave several years or leave the State* freedom settled that for me* "My great grandmother on my mother1 s side belong to Thomas Jefferson* He was good to her* She used to tell me stories on her lap* She come from Virginia to Tennessee* They all cried to go back to Virginia and their master got mad and sold them* He was a meaner man* Her name was Sarah Jefferson* Mariah was her daughter and Marther was my mother* They was real dark folks but mother was my color, or a shade darker* 2. 94 "Grandmother said she picked cotton from the seed all day till her fingers nearly bled* That was fore gin day* They said the more hills of tobacco you could cultivate was how much you was worth* "I don't remember the Ku KLux. They was in my little boy days but they never bothered me* "All my life I been working hard—steamboat, railroad, farming* Wore clean out now* nTimes is awful hard* I am worn clean out* I am not sick. Ifm ashamed to say I can't do a good day's work but I couldn't* I am proud to own I get commodities and #8 from the Relief** 80338 95 interviewer Thomas B2more Iracy Person interviewed Sam Millert Morrilton, Arkansas Age 98 "I is ninety-eight years old, suh* My naiad's Sam Miller, and I was born in Texas in 1840~donft know de month nor de day* Wy parents died when I was jes' a little chap, and we come to Conway County, Arkansas fifty years ago; been livin9 here ever sine** My wife's name was Annie William- son* We ain't got no chillun and never had none* I don't belong to no ehu'ch, but my wife is a Baptist "Can't see to git around much now* Ho, suh, I can't read or write, neither* My memory ain't so good about things when I was little, away back yonder, but I sure members dem Ku KLux Elans and de militia* They used to ketch people and take em out and whup em* "Don't rickolleck any of de old songs but one or two—oh, yes, dey used to sing 'Old time religion's good enough for me9 and songs like dat* "De young people! lawzy, X jest dunno how to take em* Can't under- stand em at all* Dey too much for me!" NOTE: The old fellow chuckled and shook his head hut said very little fcore* He could have told much but for his faulty memory, no doubt* He was almost non-commitpl as to facts of slavery days, the War between the States* and He const ruction period* Has the sense of humor that seems to be a char- acteristic of most of the old-time Negroes, but aside from a whimsical chuekLe *. 96 shows little of the interest that is usually associated with the old generation of Negroes* «> 0733 97 interviewer Miss Irene Robertson____________ Person interviewed W* D* Miller, lest Memphis* Arkansas Age 65? "Grandpa was sold twice in Baleigfr, North Carolina* He was sold twice to the same people, from the Millers to the Ho bar t sons (Robersons, Robinsons, etc*?)* He said the Robertsons were not so very good to him bat the Millers were* Grandma was washing when a Yank come and told them they had been sot free* They quit washing and went from house to house rejoicing* Hy parent af names was Jesse and Mary Miller, and Grandma Agnes and Grandpa Peter Miller? The Robertsons was hill wheat farmers* The Millers had a cloth factory* Dan Miller owned it and he raised wheat* Mama was a pony woman and they worked her in the factory* She made cloth and yarn* *I was born In Raleigh, North Carolina or close by there* My fatherfs uncle John House brought about one hundred families from North Carolina to Qjxittenden County, Mississippi* I was seven years old* He said they rode mules to pick cotton, it growed up like trees* We come in car boxes* I cane to Heath and Helena eleven years ago* Papa stayed with his master Dan Miller till my uncle tolled him away* He died with smallpox soon after we come to Mississippi* "It is a very good country but they donft pick cotton riding on mules, at least I ainft seed none that way*11 El Dorado District Qg FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Name of Interviewer__________Pernella Anderson Subject_________________( SUVERYyCUSTOMS Story - Information (if not enough space on this page add page) Ah use ter could tawk an tell a thing plum well but ah been broke up by a cah. Cah run ovah mah haid an ah couldn* tawk fuh 30 days* So now ah aint no good fuh nothin* Ah rrcollect one night ah dream a dream* De dream at ah dreamt, next morning dat dream come true* Jes like ah dreamt hit* Yes hit did* Ah wuz heah in slavery time* Ah merabuh T/tfien dey freed us niggers* Se here, ah wuz a purty good size kid when dey free us* All kin membuh our house* Sot dis way. An ole Marster called all his niggers up* Dey all come along roun in a squad on de porch» Ah did not heah whut he said tuh em* But mah step-pa wuz dere an tole us we wuz free* An atter dey freed mah step-pa ah recollect he went on home and fried some aigs(eggs) in de ubben* Know we didn have no stove we cooked on de fiuhplace* As ah said cook dem aigsf giirme some uv hit, an he leff den* ?»rent east and ah aint nevah seed dat man since* Ah membuhs once ah got a whoopin bout go in tuh de chinquepin tree* Some uv um tole me ole master wuz gwianter let us quit at dinnuh an so in place uv me goin ter dinnuh ah went on by de chinquepin tree tuh git some chanks* Ah had a brothuh wid me* so ah come tuh fine out dat dey gin tuh callin us* Dey hollered tuh come on dat we wuz go inter pick cotton* So in place uv us goin on tuh de house we went on back tuh de fielf# Our fiel wuz bout a mile fum de house* Ole Moster waited down dere at de gate* He call me when ah got dere an wanted tuh know why ah didn come and git mah dinnah sos ah could pick cotton* So he taken mah britches down dat day* Mah chinks all run out on de groun1 an he tole mah brothah tuh pick um up* Ah knocked mah brothuh ovah fuh pickin um up an aftuh ah done dat ole moster taken his red pocket hanfcher out and tied hit ovah mah ebile# fhey said I wasn't weaned yet* 18? grand- mother told me that* She is dead now* Don't know nothin1 bout nary one o' my white folks. I don't recollect nothin' bout a one of 'em 'cept my old boss* He took us to Texas and stayed till the niggers was all free and then he went back. Good to me? No ma'm—no good there* And if you didn't work he'd see~ what was the matter* Lived near Coffeyville in Upshaw county* (Chat's whar my huahand found me* I was living with my aufct and uncle. They said the rea- flon I i^d 3Uc^ a g00(i gif^ ©akin* quilts was cause my mother was a seamstress* i -2- »I cooked 9fore I married and I could make my own dresses, piece quilts I d quilt. That's mostly what I done# Ho laundry work. I never did farm till I was married. After we went to Chicago in 1922, I took care of other folks chillun* colored folks, while they was working in laundries and factories. I sure has worked. I ain't nobody to what I was when I was first married. I knowed how to turn, hut I donft know whar to turn now--1 ainTt able. HI use to could plow just as good as any man, 1 could put that dirt up against that cotton and corn. Ifd mold it up. Lay it by? Yes mafm I'd lay it by, too. "They didn't send me to school but they learned me how to work. HI had a quilt book with a lot of different patterns but I loaned it to a woman and she carried it to Oklahoma. Mighty few people you can put confi- dence in nowdays. *I donft go out much fcept to church—folks is so critical. "You have to mind how you walk on the cross; If you don't, your foot will slip, And your soul will be lost.11 "I was a motherless chile but the Lord made up for it by givin' me a good husband and I don't want for anything." 108 109 Interviewer1s Comment OF aOBKEB—Bernice Bowden IjiHE AHD ADDBESS OP im?ORMAMT~&racie Hitchell, 117 Worthen Street, Pine Bluff According to her husband, Gracie spends every spare moment piecing quilts. He said they use to go fishing and that Gracie always took her quilt pieces along and if the fish were not "biting she would sew* She showed me twenty-two finished quilt tops, each of a different design and several of the same design, or ahout thirty quilts in all# Tm were entirely of silk, two of applique design which called "laid work** 5?hey were folded up in a trunk and as she took them out and spread them on the oed for me to see she told me the name of the design* The following are the names of the disigns: 1. Breakfast Dish 2* Sawtooth (silk) 3. fulip design (Laid work) 4* "Prickle? Pear 5* Little Boy's Breeches 6* Birds All Over the Elements 7. Drunkard's Path 8» Railroad Crossing 9. Cocoanut Ldaf (*$hatfs Laid lark") 10. Cotton Leaf 11« Half an ©range 12# Tree of Paradise 13* Sunflower 14« Ocean Wave (silk) 15. Double Star 16. Swan's Nest 17. Log Cabin in the Lane 18. Beel 19• Lily in de Valley (Silk) 20. Feathered Star 21• Pish Tail ZZ. Whirligig Gracie showed me her winter coat bought in Chicago of fur fabric called moleskin, and with fur collar and cuffs. She sells the quilt tops whenever she can. Many are made of new material *ich they buy* POEM B #764 110 Personal History of Informant STATE-—Ark an s as MME OF WOBKEB—Bemice Bowden ADUEBSS—1006 Oak Street D4IE—- November 2, 1938 SUBJECT—EK-slaves NAME AND ilDDBESS OF HfPOKKAKOV-Gracie Mitchell, 117 Worthen Street, Pine Bluff 1. Ancestry~Father, Andrew Wheeler; Sallie #heeler, mother* 2. Place and date of birth—Alabama. No date known, about 80 years old. 3. Family—Husband and one grown son. 4. Places lived in, with dates—Alabama, Texas till 1897, Arkansas 1897-1922, Chicago, 1922 to 1930* Arkansas 1930 to date. 5. Education, with dates—No education. 6# Occupations and accomplishments, with dates—Cooked before marriage at 16; farmed after marriage; home sewing* 7. Special skills and interests--Quilt making and knitting, 8# Community and religious activities—Assisted husband in ministry* 9. Description of informant—Hair divided into many pigtails and wrapped with rags. Skin, dark. Medium height, slender, clothing soiled, 10* Other points gained in interview—Spends all her time piecing quilts, aside from housework. II Interviewer________________Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Hettie Mitchell (mulatto) Brinkley, Arkansas Age 69 "1 am sixty-nine years old* I was raised in Dyersburg, Tennessee* I can tell you a few things mother told us* My own grandma on mother's side was in South Carolina* She was stole when a child and brought to Tennessee in a covered wagon* Her mother died from the grief of it* She was hired out to nurse for these people* The people that stole her was named Spenee* She was a house woman for them till freedom* She was nsver sold* Spenoes was not cruel people* Mother was never sold* She was the mother of twelve and raised nine to a good age — more than growno The Spenoes seemed to always care for her children* TOien I go to Pyersburg they always want us to corns to see them and they treat us mighty well* "Mother was light* She said she had Indian strain (blood) but father was very light and it was white blood but he never discussed it before his children* So I can't tell you excepting he said he was owned by the Brittians in South Carolina* He said his mother died soon after he was sold* He was sold to a nigger trader and come in the gang to Memphis* Tennessee and was put on the block and auctioned off to the highest bidder*. He was a farm hand*> ftMother married father ifaen she was nineteen years old* She was a bouse girl* She lived close to her old mistress* She was very, very old and before she died she nearly stayed at my mother's house* Her mind wasn't right and mother understood how to take care of her and was kind to heft 2* 112 jhe Spences heard about grandma* They wrote and visited years after when mother was a girl# "The way that father found out about his kin folks was this: One day a creek was named and he told the white man, 'I was born close to that creek and played there in the white sand and water when I was a little boy.' The white man asked his name, said he knew the creek well too* Father told him he never was named till he was sold and they named him Sam «~* Sam Bar- nett* He was sold to Barnett in Memphis* But his dear own mother called him f Candy.T The white man found out about his people for him and they found out his own dear mother died that same year he was taken from South Carolina from grief© He heard from some of his people from that tiiae on till he died* "I worked on the farm in Tennessee till I married* I ironed, washed, and have kept ray own house and done the work that goes along with raising a small family* We own our home* We have saved all we could along* I have never had a real hard time like some I know* I guess my time is at hand now* I donft know which way to turn since my husband got down sick# "X donYt vote* Seem like it used to not be a nice place for wosnen to go where voting was taking place* Now they go mix up and vote* That is cae big change* Time is changing and changing the people * Maybe it is the People is changing up the world as time goes by* We colored folks look to the white folks to know the way to do* We have always done it** 113 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Mary Mitchell^ Bagen, Arkansas Aae 60 nI was born in Trenton, Tennessee* My parents had five children. They were named William and Charlotte Wells* Ify father ran away and left my mother with all the children to raise* By birth mother was a Mississippian* She had been a nurse and my father was a timber man and farmer* My mother said she had her hardest time raising her little children* She was taken from her parents when a small girl and pat on a block and sold* She never said if her owners was bad to her, but she said they was rougbt on Uncle Peter* He would fight* She said they would tie Uncle Peter and whoop him with a strap* From what she said there was a gang of slaves on Mr* Wadefs place* He owned her* I never heard her mention freedom but she said they had a big farm bell on a tall post in the back yard and they had a horn to blow* It was a whistle made of a cow1 a horn* *She said they was all afraid of the Ku KLux* They would ride across the field and they could see that they was around, but they never come up close to them*11 FORM A #763 Circumstances of Interview STATE""" Arkansas NAME OF VCKKER-- Bemice Bowden ADDRESS— 1006 Oak Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas DATE1-- Hovemher 3, 1938 SUBJECT-- Exslaves 1# Name and address of informant~5foses Mitchell, 117 Worthen Street 2. Date and time of interview-November 1, 1938, 1:00 p.m. 3, Place of interview—117 Sforthen Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas 4# flame and address of person, if any, who put you in touch with informant— Bernice *'ilhurnf 101 Miller Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas 5. Name and address of person, if any, accompanying you--None 6# Description of room, house, surroundings, etc.— A frame house (rented), tare floors, no window shades; a hed and some "boxes and three straight chairs. In afc adjoining room were another "bed, heating stove, two trunks, one straight chair, one rocking chair. A third room, the kitchen, con- tained cookstove and table and chairs. Text of Interview "I was "born down here on White fiiver near Arkansas post, August, 1849. I belonged to Thomas Mitchel and when they (Yankees) took Arkansas Post, our 4 owners gathered us up and my young master took us to Texas and he sold me to an Irishman named John Melnish in Marshall for #1500« #500 in gold and the rest in Confederate money. Biey called it the new issue. "I was twelve years old then and I stayed in Texas till I was forty- •ight. I was at 1tyler, Texas when they freed us. When they took us to Texas toey left my mother and fca"by sister here in Arkansas, down here on Oak Log Bayou, i never saw her again and when I came hack here to Arkansas, they said 8& had teen dead twenty-eight years. Never did hear of my father again. 114 "I'm supposed to he part Creek Indian* Donft know how much* We have one son, a farmer, lives across the river. Married this wife in 1873. rtKy wife and I left Texas forty-one years ago and came hack here to Ar- kansas and stayed till 1922* fhen we went to Chicago and stayed till 1930, and then came "back here* Ifd like to ge hack up th«re. hut I guess Ifm gettin1 too old* ^hile I was there I preached and I worked all the time* I worked on the streets and the driveways in Lincoln Park. I was in the hriek and hlock depart- ment. 3hen I went from there to the asphalt department. fherefs where I coined the money* Made #6*60 in the "brick and hlock and #7.20 a day in the asphalt* Sown here they donft know no more about asphalt than a pig does about a holiday* A man thatfs from the South and nerer been nowhere* don't know nothin'. a woman either* "Yes ma'm, IYm a preacher* Just a local preacher, wasn't ordained* The reason for that was, in Texas a man over forty-five couldn't join the traveling connection. I was licensed, hut of course 1 couldn't perform marriage cere- monies. I was just within one step of that* "I went to school two days in my life* I was privileged to go to the first free school in Texas. Had a teacher named Goldman. Don't know what year that was but they found out me and another fellow was too old so they wouldn't Ut us go no more* But I caught my alphabet in them two days. So I just caught what education I've got, here and there. I can read well—best on my Bible and Itestament and I read the newspapers. I can sorta scribble my name. "I've been a farmer most of my life and a preacher for fifty-five years. I can repair shoes and use to do common carpenter work. I can help build a house. I only preach occasionally now. here and there* I belong to the Allen T^ple in Hoboken (last Pine Bltt£f). HI think the young generation is gone to naught* 2heyfre a different cut to what they was in my cominf up** Interviewer's Comment Ihis man and his wife live in the Outskirts ©f West pine Bluff. 3ney receive a small sum of money and commodities from the County Welfare Depart- ment. He has a very pleasant personality, a good memory and intelligence above the ordinary. Beads the Daily Graphic and Arkansas Gazette. Age 89. He said, "Here's the idea, freedom is worth it all," FOBlf B 117 Personal History of Informant STAGES—Arkansas ItfS OF UDBKSR— Bernice Bowden APDEESS—1006 Oak Street BiTB—Novemher 3, 1938 SUBJECT— Ex-slaves NAME AND ADBBESS OP INFOBMABT-- Ifcses Mitchell, 117 lorthen Street, Pine Bluff 1# Ancestry—Father, Lewis Mitchell; Mother, Bhoda Mitchell 2# Place and date of "birth—Oak Log Bayou, *hite Biver, near Arkansas Post, Ark. 5» Family—Wife and one grown son* 4. Places lived in, with dates—Taken to Texas hy his young master and sold in Marshall during the war* Lived in fyler, fexas until forty-eight years of age; came back to Arkansas in 1897 and stayed until 1922; went to Chicago and lived until 1930; hack to Jefferson County, Arkansas* St Education, with dates—-fwo days after twenty-one years of age* Ho date* 6# Occupations and accomplishments, with dates—Farmer, preacher, common car- penter, cobbler, public work on streets in Chicago* farmed and preached until he went to Chicago in 1922* The he narked in the maintenance depart- ment of city streets of Chicago and of Lincoln Park, Chicago* 7. Special skills and interests—Asphalt worker 8. Community and religious activities—Licensed Met tod is t Preacher* No as- signment now* 9. Description of informant—Five feet eight indies tall; weight, 165 pounds, nearly bald* Very prominent cheek hones* Keen intelligence* Neatly dressed* 10* Other points gained in interview—Beads daily papers; knowledge of world affairs* jKtfie FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Name of Interviewer Martin -Barker Subj ec t________Negro Customs Story I was born on the Walker place, in 1869* My father was a slave to Kr« Bob* I used to drive Miss Lelia (Eulalie) to the Catholic church here in Pine Bluff. She used to let me go barefooted, and bare headed* Hiss Lelia was the daughter of Col* Creed Taylor* All during slavery time I drove her gins* We had eight mules* Eight at a time hitched to each lever, they would weave in an out but they v/as so hitched that they never got in any bodyfs way* Kiey just walked around and round like they did in those, days* V7e had herds of sheep, we sheared them and wove yarn for socks• ,re raised wheat, when it was ripe we laid a canvas cloth on the ground-and put wheat on it, then men and women on horse back rode over it, and thrashed it that way. toiey called it treading it* Then we took it to the mill and ground it and made it into flour* For breakfast,(we ate awful soon in tier morning), about 4 iM, then we packed lunch in tin buckets and eat again at'daylight* Fat meat, cornbread and molasses* Some would have turnip greens for breakfast* Suniaertime* Miss Lelia would plant plenty of fruit, and we would have fried apples, stewed peaches and things* 119 Sunday mornings we would have biscuit, butter, molasses, chicken, etc. For our work they paid us seventy^five cents el day and when come cotton pickings time old rulef seventy five cents for pickin cotton< Christmas time, plenty of fireworks, plenty to eat, drink and everything. We would dance all Christmas. All kind of game was plentiful, plenty of coon, possum, used up everything that grew in the woods * Plenty of corn, we took it to the grist mill every Saturday• Ark. riv. boats passed the Walker place, and dey was a landing right at dere place, and one at the Wright place,' that is where the airport is now. All de white folks had plenty of cattle den and in de winter time dey was all turned in on the fields and with what us niggers had, that made a good many, and you know yorself dat was good for de ground* Lother was a slave on the Merriweather place, her marster was Tick Llerriweather. My granma was Gfusta Merriweather, my mother Lavina and lived on the Merriweather place in what was then Dorsey county, near Edinburg, now Cleveland £0. Ly grandfather was Louis Barnett, owned by Nick Barnett of Cleveland co., then Dorsey co. Fathers people was owned by Marse Bob ^alker. Miss Lelia (Eulalie) was mistis. Miss Maggie Benton vms young mistis. 1 clont believe in ghosts or spirits. Information by________________Ben Moon____________ Place of residence :$0320 w^^w^w^^ 120 Interviewer Mrs* Bernlce Bowden Person interviewed ^ Bama Moore 3715 Short West Second, Pine Bluff t Arkansas Age 80 Occupation Laundry work "I'se born in slavery times* Whan my daddy come back from the War, he said I was gwine on seven or eight*, "He stayed in the War three years and six months* I know that1 s what he always told us* Se went with his master, Joe Hbrton* looks like I can see old Marse Joe now* Had long sandy whiskers* She las9 time I seed him he come to my uncle's house* We was all livinv in a row of houses* Galled em the quarters* I never will fergit it* "I was born on Horton's Island here in Arkansas* That's what they told "I know when my daddy went to war and i&en he corns hack* he pat on his crudiments (accoutrements) to let us see how he looked* "I seed the soldiers gwine to war and comin* back* Look like to me I was glad to see em till I seed too many of em* "Yankees used to come down and take provisions* Yes, 'twas the Yankees! granddaddy was the whippin1 boss* Had a white boss too named Massa Fred* "Massa Joe used to come down and play with us chillun* His name was Joe Horton* Ever'body can tell you that was his name* Old missis nened Miss &ary. She didnft play with us much* *• lai "Yes ma'am, they sure did take us to Texas durin1 of the War—in a ox wagon* Stayed down there a long time* "We didnft have plenty to eat but we had to eat what we did have* I member they wouldnft give us chillun no meat* Jus1 grease ay mouf and make my mother think we had meat* "Now my mother told me, at night seme of the folks used to steal one of old raassafs shoats and cook it at night* X know when that pot was on the rack hut you better not say nothin* bout it* "All us chillun stayed in a big long log house* Bar is where us chillun stayed in the daytime, right close to Miss Mary* "I used to sit on the lever at the gin* You know that was glory to me to ride* I whipped the old mile* Ever1 now and then I'd give him a tap. *8hen they pressed the cotton, they wet the press and I member one time they wet it too much* I don't say they sent it back but I think they made em pay for it* And they used to put chunks in the bale to make it weigh heavy* Bight there on that lake where I was born* "Used to work in the field* These white folks can tell you I loved to work* I used to get as much as the men* My mammy was a worker and as the sayin1 is, I was a chip off the old block* "The first teacher I went to school to was named Mr. Cushman* Didnft go only on rainy days* Ihat was the first school and you* might say the las' one cause I had to xruss them chillun* "You know old massa used to keep all our ages and my daddy said I was nineteen when I married, but I donf t know what year 'twas—honest I don't« s- 132 "I been married three times* »I member one time I was goin' to a buryin1* I was hurryin* to get dressed* I wanted to be ready when they come by for me cause they say itfs bad luck to stop a corpse* If you don't know that I do-*»you know if they had done started from the house# "My mama and daddy said they was born in Tennessee and was bought and brought here* "I been goin1 to one of these govfment schools and got my eyes so weak I canft hardly see to thread a needle* Ifse crazy bout it Ifm tellin1 you* I sit up here till God knows how long* Biey give me a copy to practice and they'd brag on me and that turned me foolish* I jus1 thought I was the teacher herself almosf* That's the truf now* *! can't read much* I donft fool with no newspaper* I wish I could, woman—I sure do* "I keep tellin1 these young folks they better learn something I tell em they better take this chance* This young generation—*! don11 know much bout the whites*-~Ifm tellin1 you these colored is a sight* "Well, Ifm gwine away from here d'rectly—ainft gwine be here much longer* If I donft see you again I111 meet you in heaven*11 80848 123 Interviewer Person interviewed^ Miss Irene Robertson Patsy Moore. Madison. Arkansas *My mother was sold in Jamestown, Virginia to Daphney Hull* Her white folks got in debt* Vfy papa was born in Georgia* Folks named Williams owned him. Ma never seen her ma no more but William Hull went to Virginia and bought h8r two sisters* "I was named Patsy after grandma in Virginia* She had twenty-one children to mafs knowing* Ma was a light color# Pa was a Molly GLaspy man* That means he was Indian and African* Molly SLaspy folks was nearly always free folks* Ma was named Mattle* If they would have no children they got trafficked about* "Daphney Hull was good but William Hull and his wife was both mean* They lived on the main road to Holly Springs* Daphney Bull was a Methodist man, kind-hearted and good* He was a bachelor I think* He kept a woman to cook and keep his house* Auntie said the Yankees was mean to Mr* William Hull's wife* They took all their money and meat* They had their money hid and scxae of the black folks let the Yankees find out where it was* They got it, "Papa was a soldier* He sent for us* We come to Memphis, Tennessee in a wagon. We lived there five or six years* Pa got a pension till he died* Both my parents was field hands in slavery* Ma took in washing and ironing to Memphis* *I was born in De Sota County, Mississippi* I remember Forrestfs battle to Memphis* I didnft have sense to be scared* I seen black and white dead s. 124 in the streets and alleys* Ve went to the magazine house for protection, and we played and stayed there • They tried to open the magazine house but couldn't* "When freedom come, folks left homef out in the streets, crying, praying, singing, shouting, yelling, and knocking down everything* Some shot off big gunsd Den come the calm* It was sad then* So many folks done dead, things tore up and nowheres to go and nothing to eat, nothing to do* It got squally. Folks got sick, so hungry* Sane folks starved nearly to death* Times got hard* We went to the washtub onliest way we all could live* Ma was a cripple woman* Pa couldn't find work for so long when he mustered out* "I do recollect the Civil War well* "I live with my daughter* I have a cough since I had flu and now I have chills and fever* My daughter helps me all I get* She lives with me* "Some of the young folks is mighty good* I reckon some is too loose acting* Times is hard* Harder in the winter than in summer time* We has our garden and chickens to help us out in summer*11 4* ' ¦¦ $ jf*'0 Interviewer lira» Bernice Bowden j$ ----m-------^ r * Iterson Interviewed Ada Moorehead 8300 B. Barraque, Pine Staff, Arkansas Age 82? "I was here In slavery times, honey, bat I don't know exactly how old I am. I was born In Huntsville, Alabama but you know in them days old folks didn't tell the young folks no thin1 and I was so small when they brought me here. I don't know what year I was born but I believe I'm about eighty- two* You know when a person ain't able to work and dabble out his own clothes, you know he's gone a long ways. «lty white folks was Ad fhite what owned me* Called him iiarse Ad* Don't call folks marse much now-daya. "My father was sold away from us in Alabama and wa heard he was here in Pine Bluff so Aunt Fanny brought us here. Site just had a road full of us and brought us here to Arkansas, la walked* fa was a weak on the road. I know we started here on Monday morning and we got here to the courthouse on the next Monday round about noon* That was that old court- house. I reckon that ground is in the river now* "When we got here I saw my father. Be took me to his sister — that was my Aunt Savannah — and dropped me down* "Hrsc Reynolds raised me. She come to Aunt Savannah's house and hired me the very same day I got here. I nussed Miss Katie. She was bout a month old. You know — a little long dress baby. Don't wear them long dresses now — gettim* wiser* 2. 120 "Mrs. Reynolds sho was good to me* And since she9s gone looks like Ifm too -~ gone to the dogs0 Cause when Mrs* Reynolds got a dress for Hiss Katie ~ got one for me too* "Sly father was a soldier in the war* Last time I heard from him I toow he was hauling salt to the breastworks* Yes, I was here in the war* That was all right to me but I wished a many a time I wasn't here* "I went to school two or three days in a week for about a term* But I didn't learn to read much* Had to hire out and help raise my brother and sister* Ifm goin1 to this here government school now* I goes every after** noon* '?Since I got old I can think bout the old times* It comes to me* I didn't pay attention to nothinf much when I was young* "Oh Lord, I donft know whatfs goin9 to become of us old folks* Wasn*t for the Welfare9 I donft know what I'd do* "I was sixteen when I married* I sure did marry young* I married young so I could see my chillun grown* I never married but once and I stayed a married woman forty-nine years to the very day my old man died* Lived with one man forty-nine years* I had my hand and heart full* I had a home of my own* How many chillun? Me? I had nine of my own and I raised other folks1 chillun* Oh, I been over this world right smart ~~ first one thing and then another* I know a lot of white folks* Ihey all been pretty good to me** 30316 12? Interviewer Mary D* Badglna*______________ Person Interviewed Mrs* Mary Jane (Mattis) Mooreman Hoas with sea:____________ Age____ 11 Yes, ma*am. I've bass in Hot Springs» bean in Hot Springs 5? years, That's a long tins* Lots of changes nave come—I've seen lots of changes hare- changed from wooden sidewalks and little wood buildings* Your name's Hudgins 1 I knew the Eudginses— Knew Miss Hbra well* What*s that ? £i& I know Adeline ? Did I know Adeline! Do you mean to tell me she's still alive ? Adeline! Ihy Miss Maude,• ( addressing Mrs* Eisele, for whom she works—and who sat nearby to help in the interview) Miss Maude, I tell you Adeline's UUBf she's white clean throug&t" ( see lute view with Adeline Blakeley, who incidentally Is as black as »tho ace of spades*-—in pigmentation* J Kiss Maude, yon never knew anybody like Adeline* She bossed those children and made them mind—Just like they was hers* She took Mattie Mooreman Hudgine 1.28 good care of them*» (Turning to the interviewer) "You know iicv,1 the Hudgine always was about their children* Adeline thought every one of fem was made out of gold——made out of pure GGHU She made 'em mind* I remember once, she was down on Central Avenue with Ross and he did somthing or other that, wasn't nice* She walked over to the umbrella stand, you remember how they used to have umbrellas for sale out in front of the stores* She grabbed an umbrella and she whipped Boss with it-—she didn't hurt him* Then she put it back in the stand and said to the man who run the store, • If that umbrella's hurt, just charge it to Serve Hudgins.* That's the way Adeline was* So she's still alive* Law how I'd like to see her* Bring me a picture of her* Oh Miss Mary, I'd love to have it* Me ? I was born on Green river near Hartford, Kentucky* Guess I was about a year and a half, from what they told me when my mistress married* Don't know how she ever met my master, she was raised in a convent and his folks lived a long way from hers* But anyhow she did* She was just 13 when she married* The man she married was named Charles Mooreman M-0-O-B-E-M-A-N* Tkey had a son called Oharlee WFcliff Mooreman* He was named for his mother's people* I got a son I called Charles Wycliff too* He works at the 3 Mattie Mooreman Hudgins 1^9 Arlington* Hefs a waiter* They say he looks just like me* jjr* Charles Wycliff Mooreman-—hack in Kentucky* I still gets letters from him* Miss Mary I guess I had a pretty easy time in slavery days. They was good to us* Besides I was a house nlggah*" ( Those who have been "house niggahs* never quibble at the word slave or negro. A subtle social distinction brewed in the black race to separate house servants from field hands as far as wealthy planters from "poor white trash*.)'1 Once I heard a man say of my mother, #Tou could put on a white boiled shirt and lie flat down on the floor in her kitchen and not get dirty*^ Cook ? No, mafamt"( with dignity and indignation) I never cooked until after I was married, and I never washed, never washed so much as a rag* All I washed was the babiwa and maybe my mistressts feet* I was a lady*s maid* Ird wait on my mistress and I'd knit sox for all the folks* ?ihen they would sleep it was our duty—us maids—to fan. *em with feathers made out of turkey featfcers-—feather fans* Pert of it was to keep ,em cool* Then they didn't have screens like we have today* So part of it was to keep the flies off* I remember how we couldn*t stomp our feet to keep the flies from biting for fear of waking 'em up. 4 Hattie Mooremen Hudgins 130 Ho, Miss Mary, we didn't get such good food* Nobody had all the kinds of things we have today* We had mostly buttermilk and eornbread and fat meat* Cake ? *Beed we didn't* I remember once they baked a cake and Kr» {marie* V/cliff-—he was just a little toy—--he got in and took a whole fistful out of the cake, when Hiss found out about it, she give us all doses of salts——enough to make us all throw up. She gave it to all the niggahe and the children— the white children* And what did she find out f It was her own child who had done it* Yes ma*am we learned to read and write* Oh, Hiss Maude now-----1 don't want to recite* I don't want to*"( But she did "Twinkle, Twinkle Little star" ant "Hie Playful Kitten"—the latter all of 40 lines*) *| think, t think they both come out of IfcGuffey's second Bender* Yes ma'am I remember*8 McGuffey'e and the Blueback speller too* No, Kiss Mary, there wasn't so much of the war that was fought around us* I remember that old Master used to go out in the front yard and stand by a locust tree and put his ear against it* He said that way he could hear the cannon down to Bowling Green* No, I didn't neyer hear any shooting from the war myself* 5 Ifettie Mooreman Hudgins |:jf_ Yes ma'am, the Confederates used to come through lots* I remember how we used to go to the spring for water for »em* Then we'd stand with the buckets on our heads while they arank------drank out ef a big gourd© Ttfhen the buckets was empty we«d go back to the spring for more water. Once the Yankees come by the place* It was at night* They went out to the quarters and they tried to get «em to rise up* Told 'em to come on in the big house and take what they wanted. Told 'em to take anything they wanted to take, take Master's silver spoons and Miss' silk dress* o •If they don't like it, we'll shot their brains out** they said* Next morning they told Master* He got scared and moved* At that time we was living at Cloverport* It was near the end of the war and we was already free, only we didn't know it* He moved on up to stephensport^ That's on the Ohio too* He took me and a brother of mine and another black boy* While we was there I remember he took me to a circus* I remember how the lady----she was dressed in pink come walking down a wire------straight on down to the ground* she was carrying a long pole. I won't never forget that* Not long afterwards I was married* We was all free then* My husband asked my master if he could marry me* He Mat tie Mooreman Hudgins i ->:^ told him 'You're a good man. You can come and live on my farm and work for me, but you can't have Mattie*4 so we moved off to his Master's farm* A little while after that his Master bought a big farm in Arkansas* He wanted to hire as many people as he could* So we went with him* He started out well, but the first simmer he died. So everything had to be sold. A man what come down to bid on some of the farm tools and stock—-come to the auction, he told us to come on up to woodruff county and work for him* We was there 7 years and he worked the farm and I took care of myself and my babies. Then he went off and left me* I went in to Cotton Plant and started working there* Finally he wrote me and tried to get me to say we hadn't never been married* said he wanted to marry another woman* The white folks I worked for wouldn't let me. I'd been married right and they wouldn't let me disgrace myself by writing such a letter* Finally I came on to Hot springs. For a while I cooked and washed* Then I started working for folks* regular* For 9 years, tho, I mostly washed and ironed* I came to Hot springs on the 7th of February-—I think it was 57 years ago* You remember Miss Maude-----it was just before that big hail storm* You was here, don't you remember----that g Mattie Mooreman Hudgins | ;j<* hail storm that took all the windows out of all the houses, tore off roofs and swept dishes and table-cloths right off the tables. Can't nobody forget that who's seen it. Miss Mary, do you know Miss Julia Euggins ? I worked for her a long time* Worked for her before she went away arid after she came back. Between times I cooked for Mrs. Button ( Burton—but called Button by everyone) Housley. V&en Miss Julia come back she marches right down to Mrs* Housley*s and tells me she wants me to work for her again* •Can't get her now,* says Mrs. Housley, *8Cattie*s done found out she's black.* But anyhow I went to see her, and I went back to work for her, pretty foxy Miss Julia was* I bee* working for Mrs. Eisele pretty near twenty five years. Saw her children grow up and the grand children* Lancing, he's my heart* Once when Mr. and Mrs* Eisele went to see Mrs* Brown, Lancing's mother, they took me with them* All the way to Watertown, Wisconsin* There wasn 't any more niggas in the town and all the children thought I was somthing to look at. They'd come to see me and they'd bring their friends with 'em* Once while we was there, a circus come to town* The children wanted me to see it. Told me there was a negro boy in it. Guess they thought it would be a treat to me to see another niggah* I told «em, 'Law, don t you think I see lots, lots more than I wants, everyday when I is at home*** Matt l e Moo reman Hud gins v>l It used to scare me. The folks would go off to a party or a show and leave me alone with the baby. No, Miss U,:*ary, I wasn't scared for myself. I thought somebody might come in and kidnap that baby. No matter how late they was I'd sit on the top step of the stairs leading upstairs-- just outside the door where Lansing was asleep. No matter what time they come home they'd find me there. 'Why don't you go on in your bedroom and lie down ?« they'd ask me. 1 No,* I'd tell »em, * somebody might come in, and they would have to get that baby over my dead body.* Jonnie, that's my daughter ( Mrs. D.G. Murphy, 338 Walnut Street-----a large stucco house with well cared for lawn) she wants me to quit work. I told her, 'You put that over on Mrs. Murphy—you made her quit work and took care of her. What happened to her ? She diedt You're not going to make me old.* Twice she's got me to quit work. Once, she told me it was against the law. Told me there was a law old folks couldn't work. I believed her and I quit. Then I come on down and I asked Mr. Eisele tt( an important business executive and prominent in civic affairs,)** He rared back and he said, 'I'd like to see anybody stop me from working, • so ft come on back© 9 Battle Moorsman Badgins 135 Another time, it was when the old age pensions come in* They tried to atop me again* Told me I had to take it* I asked Mr. Eisele if I could work just the seme* mo,* he says* if you take it, you'll have to quit work*9 So I stamped ay foot and I says* *2 won't take nobody*s pension.* $he other day Jonnie called up here and she started to crying* Lots of folks write her notes and say she's bad to let me work.Somebody told her that they had soon me going by to work at 4 of clock in the morning* it wasn't no such* I ' asked a man when 1 was on the way and it was 85 minutes until 5. Besides, ay clock had stopped and 1 couldn*t tell what time it was* Tes, Kiss Mary, I does get hero sort of early* but then I like it* I just sit in the kitchen until the folks get op* You aao that pioture over there, lt*s Mr, Eisele when he was 17 • I*d know that smiling face anywhere* He*s always good to Be* When they go away to Florida 2 earn go to the store and get money whenever I need it* But it*s always good to see thorn come back* Miss ifauda says I*m sure to go to Heaven, I'm such a good worker. Ko, Kiss Mary, I'm not going to quit work* Not until 1 get old* • m&z r- 30713 13§ Interviewer Samuel S# Taylor Person interviewed___________ Evelina Morgan 1317 I* Sixteenth Street, Little Rock, Arkansas Age App* 81 "I was six years old during of the War. Jfy ma told me my age, but I forgot it; I never did have it put down. The only way I gits a pension, X just tells fem I was six years old during of the War, and they figures out the age. Sorts like that. But I know I was six years old when the Rebels and the Yankees was fighting. *I seed the Yankees oome through. I seed that. They come in the time old master was gone* He run off—he run away. He didn't let 'em git him* I was a little child. They stayed there all day breaking into things- breaking into the molasses and all like that* Old mistress stayed upstairs hiding. The soldiers went down in the basement and throwed things around. Old Blaster was a senator; they wanted to git him* They sure did cuss him: fThe ~, —f ~-, old senator,* they would say# He took his finest horses and all the gold and silver with him scmewheres* They couldn't git fim* They was after senators and high-ups like that* "The soldiers tickled me* They sung* The white people's yard was jus9 full of them playing 'Yankee Doodlef and 'Hang Jeff Davis on a Sour Apple Tree.' "All the »ttite people gone I Funny how they run away like that* They had to save their selves* I 'member they took one old boss man and hung him UP in a tree across a drain of water, jus9 let his foot touch—and somebody cut him down after 'while* fhose white folks had to run away* 2. 137 ha! a- v i ¦----------- -~ - r..... "I was born in Wedgeboro, North Carolina, on the plantation of—let me see what that manfs name was* He was an old lawyer* I done forgot that old white man's name* Old Tom Ash! Senator Ash—that's his name* He was good to his slaves* He had so many niggers he didn't know them all* "My father's name was Alphonso Dor gens and my mother's name was Lizzie Dor gens. Both of them dead* I don't know what her name was before she married. My pa belonged to the Dorgens' and he married my ma* That is how she come to he a Dorgen* Old Man Ash never did bay him* He just visited my mother. They all was in the same neighborhood* Big plantations* Both of them had masters that owned lots of land* I don't know how often he visited my mother after he married her* He was over there all the time* They were right adjoining plantations* "I was born in a frame house* I don't know no thin' about it no more than that* It was j'ined to the kitchen* My mother had two rooms j'ined to the kitchen* She was the old mistress' cook* She could come right out of the kitchen and go on in her room* "My father worked on the farm* They fed the slaves meat and bread* That is all I remember—-meat and bread and potatoes* They made lots of potatoes* They gave 'em what they raised* You could raise stuff for your- self if you wanted to* "My mother took care of her children* We children was on the place there with her* She didn't have nobody's children to take care of tait us* Patrollers "I used to hear them all talk about the patrollers* I used to hear ay mother talking about them* My ma said my master wouldn't let the Patrollers come on his place* They could go on anybody else's place s. 138 but tie never did let them come on his place* Some of the slaves were treated very bad© But my ma said he didn't allow a patroller on the place and he didn't allow no other white man to touch his niggers. He was a big white man-~a senator. He didn't know all his Negroes but he didn't allow nobody to impose on them# He didn't let no patroller and nobody else beat up his niggers. How Freedom Came k' i "I don't know how freedom came. I know the Yankees came through and they'd pat we little niggers on the head and say, 'Nigger, you are just as free as I am.' And I would say, 'Yes'm.' Right After Freedom "Right after the War my mother and father moved off the place and went on another plantation somewheres—I don't know where. They share cropped* I don't know how long. Old mistress didn't want them to move at all. I never will forget that. Present Occupation and Opinions "I used to cook out all the time when I got grown. I couldn't tell you when I married. You got enough junk down there now. So I ain't giving you no more. My husband's been dead about seven years. I goes to the Methodist church on Ninth and Broadway. I ain't able to do no work now. I gets a little pension, and the Lord takes care of me. I have a hard time some- time. "I ain't bothered about these young folks. They is somethinJL-awful. It would be wonderful to write a book from that* They ought to git a history of these young people. You could git a wonderful book out of that. «• 139 "The colored folks hare come a long way since freedom* And if the white folks didnft pin fem down theyfd go further* Old Jeff BaTis said when the niggers was turned loose, 'Dive up your knives and forks with them** But they didnft do it* f Some niggers was sharp and got something* And they lost it just like they got it* Look at Bash* I know two or three big niggers got a lot and ainft got nothin* left now* leH, I ainft got no / Cy time for no more junk* You got enough down there* You take that and go on." Interviewer1s Comment Daring the interview, a little •pickaninny11 came in with his mother* His grandmother and a forlorn little dog were also along* *Tell grandma what you want,* his mother prompted* *Is that your grandson?11 I interrupted* *No," she said, "He ain't no kin to me, but he calls me fmaf and acts as if I was his grandma* * The little fellow hung back* He was just about twenty** two months old, but large and mature for that age* "Tell fmaf what you want," his grandmother put in. Finally, he made up his mind and stood in front of her and said, *Buh—er#* His mother explained, "I've done made him some corn bread, but he ainft got no butter to put on It and he wants you to give him some** Sister Morgan sat silent awhile. Then she rose deliberately and went slowly to the ancient ice-box* opened it and took out a tin of butter which she had evidently churned herself in some manner and carefully cut out a sfcall piece and wrapped it neatly and handed it to the little one* After a few amenities, they passed out* s. 140 Even with her pitiful and meagre lot, the old lady evidently means to share her bare necessities with others* The manner of her calculation of her age is interesting* She was six years old when the War was going on* She definitely remembers seeing Sherman1 s army and Wheeler's cavalry after she was six* Since they were in her neighborhood in 1864, she is undoubtedly more than eighty* Eighty-one is a fair estimate» #759 1 Interviewer Samuel 8* Taylor person interviewed James Morgan r; 819 Rice Street, Little Rock, Arkansas "During the slave time, the pat a role a used to go from one plantation to the other hunting Negroes* They would catch than at the door and throw hot ashes in their faces* Tou could go to another plantation and steal or do anything you wanted if you could manage to get back to your old master's place* But if you got caught away from your plantation, they would get you* Sometimes a nigger didnft want to get caught and beat, so he would throw a shovel of hot ashes in the pateroles1 faces and beat it away* "My daddy used to tell lots of stories about slavery tines* Hefs been dead forty-three years and my mother has been dead forty-one years—'forty- one years this May* I was quite young and lots of the things they told me, I remember9 and some of them, I donft* *I was born in 1873* That was eight years after the War ended* \lfy - father1 s name was Aaron and my mother1 s name was Rosa* Htotfe-of thsm~W8N&~l&~ nslavary* I got a brother that was a baby in her lap when the Yankee soldiers got after a chicken* The chicken flew up in her lap and they never got that one, The white folks lost it9 but the Yankees didnft get it* I have heard my mother tell all sorts of things* But they just come to me at times* The soldiers would take chickens or anything they could get their hands on--those soldiers would* "My mother married the first time in slavery* Her first husband was sold in slavery* That is the onliest brother Ifm got living now out of ten—that one that was settin1 in her lap when the soldiers coos through* 142 He's in Boydell, Arkansas bow* It used to be called Morrell* It is about one hundred twenty-one Biles from here, because Daxnott is one hundred nine end Boydell is about twelve miles farther on. It's in Nashville County* My brother was a great big old baby in slavery tines* Be was ay mother's child by her first husband* 111 the rest of them is dead and he is the onliest one that is living* "I was a section foreman for the Missouri Pacific for twenty-two years* I worked there altogether for thirty-five years, but I was section foreman for twenty-two years* There's my card [(see comment-—ed«J* Lots of men stayed on the job till it wore them out* Lewis Holmes did that* It would take him two hours to walk from here to his home—if he ever managed it at all, •It's warm today and it mill bring a lot of flies* itias don't die in the winter* Lots of folks think they do* They go up in cracks and little places like that under the weatherboard there—any place where it is warm—* and there they huddle up and stay till it gets warm* Chen they come out and gat something to eat and go back again when it cools off* They live right on through the winter in their hiding places* "Both of my parents said they always did their work whatever the task night be* ind my daddy said he never got mo whipping at all* You know they would put a task on you and if you didn't do it, you would get a whipping* My daddy wouldn't stand to be whipped by a pate role, and he didn't have to to whipped by nobody else, because he always did his work* "He was one of the ones that the pateroles couldn't catch* Ihen the pateroles would be trying to break in some place where he was, and the other niggers would be standing 'round frightened to death and vonderin' what to do, he would be gettin* up a shovelful of ashes* ». 143 (hen the door would he opened and they would be rushin1 in, he would scatter the ashes in their faces and rush oat* If he couldn't find no ashes, he would always have a handful of pepper with him, and he would throw that in their faces and beat it* "He would fool dogs that way too* My daddy never did run away* He said he didnft have no need to run away* They treated him all right• He did his work* He would get through with everything and sometimes he would be home before six o'clock* My mother said that lots of times she would pick cotton and give it to the others that couldn't keep up so that they wouldn't be punished* She had a brother they used to whip all the time be- cause he didn9t keep up* "My father told me that his old master told him he was free* Hi stayed with his master till he retired and sold the place* He worked on shares with him* His old master sold the place and went to Monticelle and died* He stayed with him about fifteen or sixteen years after he was freed* stayed on that place till the Government donated him one hundred sixty acres and charged him only a dollar and sixty cents for it* He built a house en it and cleared it up* That1 s what my daddy did* Some folks donft believe me when I tell fea the Government gave him a hundred and sixty acres of land and charged him only a dollar and sixty cents for it—a penny a acre* "I am retired now* Been retired since 1938* The Government took over the railroad pension and it pays me now* That is under the Security Act* Each and every man on the railroad pays in to the Government* *I have been married right around thirty-nine Tears* "I was born In Chleet Countyf flrVnnsaar My father was born In Georgia and brought here by his master* He come here in a old covered ox wagon* I don't know how they happened to decide to come here* My mother was bora 144 in south Carolina. She met ay fattier her* in Arkansas* They sold her ljuaband and she was brought hem* After peace was declared she met my daddy. Her first husband was sold la South Carolina and ana never did knew ghat became of bin* They put his up on the block and sold him and she never did know which way ha want* He left her with two boys right then. She had a sister that stayed in South Carolina. Somebody bought her there and kept her and somebody bought ay mother and brought her here* My father's master was named McDermott* My Bother's last master was named Belcher or something like that* "I don't belong to any church* I have always lived decent and kept out of trouble** Interviewer* a Comment When Morgan said "there is my record*, he shewed me a pass for the year 1938-39 for himself and his wife between all stations on the Missouri Pacific lines signed by L» W. Baldwin, Chief Executive Officer* He is a good man even if he is not a Christian as to church membership* 30424. Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Olivia Morgan Age 62 ______Hazen, Ark. "I am 62 years old. I was born in Lafayette County close to New Lewisvilie. I heard mama say many a time she was named after her state - North Carolina. Her name was Carolina Alexan- dria. They brought her a slave girl to this new country. She and papa must of met up toreckly after freedom. She had some children and I'm one of my papa's oldest children. "Papa come here long fore the war started. The old master. in Atlanta, Georgia - Abe Smith - give his son three boys and one girl. He emigrated to Arkansas. "Mama said her first husband and the young master went off and he never come back as she knowed of. Young master played with mama's second girl a whole heap. One day they was playing hiding round. Just as she come running to the base from round the house, young master hit her on the forehead with a rock. It killed her. Old master tried to school him but he worried so they sent him off - thought it would do his health good to travel. I don't think they ever come back. "After freedom mama married and went over to papa's master's. Papa stayed round there a long time. They got news some way they "as to get forty acres land and a mule to start out with but they said they never got nothing. "My papa said he knowed it to be a fact, the Ku Klux cut a *•¦'.' ±m colored woman's breast off, I don't recollect why he said they got after her. The Jayhawkers was had too. They all went wildj some of em left men hanging up in trees. They needed a good mas- ter to protect em worse after the war than they needed em before. They said they had a Yankee government then was reason of the Ku. Klux. They run the Jayhawkers out and made the Yankees go on home. Everybody had a hard time. Bread was mighty scarce when I was a child. Times was hard. Men that had land had to let it lay out. They had no thin1 to feed the hands on, no money to pay, no seed, no stock to work. The fences all went to rack and all the houses nearly down. When I was a child they was havin1 hard times, "I'm a country woman, I farmed all my life. I been married two times; I married Holmes, then Morgan, They dead. I washed, ironed, cooked, all at Mr, Jim Buohannan's sawmill close to Lewis- ville two years and eight months; then I went back to farmin' up at Pine Bluff, My oldest sister washed and ironed for Mrs, Buchan- nan till she moved from the sawmill to Texarkana, He lived right at the sawmill ground, "My papa voted a Republican ticket, I don't vote. My hus- bands have voted along. If the women would let the men have the business I think times would be better, I don't believe in women voting. The men ought to make the livings for the families, but the women doing too much. They crowding the men out of work, "Some folks is sorry in all colors. Seems like the young folks ain't got no use for quiet country life. They buying too » nuch. They say they have to buy everything, I ain't had no de- 3. 14? pression yet, I been at work and we had crop failures but I made it through. Some folks good and some ain't. Times is bout to run away with some of the folks. They all say times is better than they been since 1928. I hope times is on the mend," #06 ;"" I4g Interviewer Mias Irene Robertson Person interviewed TomMorgan.Madison. Arkansas Act n «My mother was the mother of fourteen of us children* Their was Sarah sad Richard Morgan* "Hy great-grandfather b'long te Bill Woods# Tkey had b'long to the Morgans and Aen freedom cone they changed their names back* Some of them still owned by Morgans* "Blather*s owners was Juris and Lacella Harris* Shay had a bey named Barley Harris and a girl* He had a snail fanu "Mother said her master waaa*1 bad, but ay father said his owner was tough on hi»»~toagh on all of than* They was all field hands* They had to git up and be doing* He said they fed by torch aorniag and night and rested in the heat of the day two or three hours* Deed the oxen and moles* In thesn days stock and folks all at three times a day* I does real well now to gat two meals a day, sosBtlass but one* They done some kind of work all the year f round* fie said they had tasks* They better git the task done or they would get a beating* *I haTen9t Toted in ao long a time* I voted Republican* I thought I did* "I worked at the railroad till they put me off* They put ae off on disability* Trying to git ay papers fixed up to work or get something one* Back on the railroad job* I farmed when I was young** o-rwxK ELDORADO DISEtlC? 1 A& 'jUiA;u FOLKLORE SUBJECTS of Intenriewer Pernolla Anderson S„Heot________Slavery Days - - Cruel Master Murdered By Slaves* Story - Information (If »£* enough space on this page add page) Ah wus born in Carolina uh slave an ah wus de eldest daughtuh of Christiana Webb whose owner mis Master Louis Amos* Mah mamoy had lots uv ohillun an she also mammied de white ohillun, whut wus leff mamnyless* When ah mis wry small day rented me out tuh some very pe9 white fokes# Dey wusn use tuh slares so mah marstsr inade him promise tuh beat me or knoek me bout* Dey promise dey wouldn* Day oahried me home an ah olare dey wus so mean tuh me till ah run off an tried tuh fin1 de way back tuh mah marster* Night caught me in de woods* Ah die9 wus skeered* Ah wuz skeered uv bears an panthers so ah crawled up in a ole bandoned orib an crouched down gainst de loft* Ah went off tuh sleep but wus woke by somethin so rat chin on de wall below* Ah stayed close as ah could tuh de wall an fgin er prayin* Dat thing cratched all night an ah prayed all night# De nex1 mawnin dese white fokes sent word tuh Marster dat ah had lef* so Marster foun1 me an took me home and let me stay dar toe* Ah didn1 work in de fielf ah worked in de house* We lived in uh log cabin* Bvafa Sunda mawnin Marster Louis would have all us slares tufa de house while he would sing an pray an read de Bible tuh us all* De people dat owned de plantation near us had lots of slaves* Dey owned lots uv mah kin fokes* Dpy marster would beat dem at night when dey come fum de fiel1 an lock em up* Hefd whoop urn an sen9 um tuh de fiel1* Dey couldn1 visit ne slaves an no slaves wus f lowed tuh visit em* Se mah cousin Sallie watched him hide de key so she moved dem a li9l further back so dat he had tuh lean ovah tuh reach dem. Dat mawnin soon when he come tuh let em out she cracked him in de haid wid de poker an made little Joe help put his haid in de fiuh place* Dat day in de fiel1 Little Joe made er songs "If yo don9 bleave Aunt Sallie kilt &arse Jim de blood is on huh under dress11* He jes hollered hit* ^is Information given by_______Charity Morris ¦Llaoe of R«aidenoe Caaden. Arkansas* AfiB m& -2- 150 ttAunt Sallie kilt Marse Jim** Day zamined Aunt Sallie's under dress so dey put huh in jail till de baby come den dey tried huh an sentenced huh tuh be hung an she wuz* Our Marster use tuh tell us if we left de house de patarollers would oatoh us# One night de patarollers run aah two brothers home, Joe an Henry * When de ole ha id died out dey ohillun got de property* Yo see we slaves wuz de property* Den we got separated* Some sent one way an some nother* Hit jes happent dat Marse Jim drawed me* When de Wah broke out we could heah lifl things bein said* We couldn1 make out# So we begin tuh more erbout* Later we learnt we wuz runnia fum de wah* In ruanin we run intuh a bunch uv soldiers dat had got kilt* Oh dat wuz terrible* Aftuh nmh brudders foun out dat dey wuz fightin tuh free us dey stole hosses an run erway tuh keep fum bein set free* Aftuth we got tuh Morris Creek hit wuz bloody an dar wuz one uv de hosses turnin roun an roun in de watuh wid his eyes shot out* We nevah saw nuthin else uv Joe nor Henry nor de othuh horse from dat day tuh dis one* But we went on an on till we come tuh a red house and dat red house represented free* De white fokes wouldn go dat way cause dey hated tuh giTe us up* Dey turnt an went de othuh way but hit wuz too late* De news come dat Mr* Lincoln had signed de papuhs dat made us all free an dere wuz soxae Voic- ing ah tells yo* Ah wuz a grown woman at dat time* Ole Hester Amos brought us on as fur as Fo'dyce an turnt us a loose* Datf s wha1 dey settled* Some uv de slaTes stayed wid em an some went tuh othuh places* Me an mah sistuh cone tuh Camdea an settled* Ah mahried George Morris* We havn1 seen our pa an ma since we mz f vided and since we wuz ohillua* When we got tuh Camden and settled down we went tuh work an sont back tuh de ole country aftuh ma an pa* Enroute tuh dis country we come through Tennessee an ah membuh comin through Memphis m Pine Bluff to Fordyce* As we wuz comin we stopped at de Mississippi Rivuh* Ah wuz standin on de bank lookin at de great roll uv watuh high in de air* Somebody snatched me back *&d de watuh took in de bank wha ah wuz standin* Ye coundfn stand too close tuh They didnft have no piano* They didnft serre nothing* Kothing to eat and nothing to drink except them that brought whiskey* The white folks made the whiskey, but the colored folks would get it* "We had church twice a month * The Union Church was three miles away from us* My father and I would go when they had a meeting* Bethlehem Church was five miles away* Everybody on the plantation belonged to that church* Both the colored and the white belonged and went there* They had the same pastor for Bethlehem, Union, and Dairy Inn* His name was Tom Adams* He was a white man. Colored folks would go to Dairy Ann sometimes* They would go to Union too* "Sometimes they would have meetings from house to house, the colored folks* The colored folks .had those house to house meetings any time they felt like it* The masters didn't care* They didn't care how much they prayed* "Sometimes they had corn shuckings* That was where they did the serving, and that was where they had the big eatings* They'd lay out a big pile of corn* Everybody would get down and throw the corn out as they shucked it* They would have a fellow there they would call the general* He would walk from one person to another and from one end of the pile to the other and holler and the boys would answer* His idea was to keep them working* If they didn't do something to keep them working, they wouldn't get that corn shucked that night* Them people would be shucking corn! There would be a prize to the one who got the most done or who would be the first to get done* They would sing while they were shucking* «• 162 They had one song they would sing when they were getting close to the finish* Part of it went like this: fEed shirt, red shirt Nigger got a red shirt,* After the shucking was over, they would have pies, beef, biscuits, corn bread, whiskey if you wanted it* I believe that was the most they had* Tiiey didn't have any ice-cream* They didnft use ice-cream much in those days. Didn't have no ice down there in the country* Hot a bit of ice there. If they had anything they wanted to save, they would let it down in the well with a rope and keep it cool down there* They used to do that here until they stopped them from having the wells* "Ring plays too* Sometimes when they wanted to amuse themselves* they would play ring plays* They all take hands and form a ring and there would be one in the center of the ring* Now he is got to get out* He would come up and say, f I am in this ladyfs garden, and Ifll bet you five dollars I can get out of here.f And dfreckly he would break somebodyfs hands apart and get out* How Freedom Came "The old boss called fem up to the house and told 'em, 'You are free as I am.* That was one day in June. I went on in the house and got some** thing to eat* My mother and father, he hired them to stay and look after the crop. Hext year, my mother and father went to Ben Hookfs place and famed on shares* Bat my father died there about May. Then it wasnft nobody working but me and my sister and mother* What the Slaves Got "The slaves never got nothing* Alexander Stephens, the Vice-President of the Confederacy, divided his plantation up and gave it to his darkies * 163 when he died* I knew him and his brother too* Alexander never did walk* He was deformed* Big headed rascal, but he had sense I "His brother was named Leonard* He was a lawyer* He really killed himself* He was one of these die-hard Southerners* He did something and they arrested him* It made him so mad* He'd bought him a horse» He got on that horse and fell off and broke his neck* That was right after the War* They kept garrisons in all the counties right after the War* "I was in Hancock County when I knew Vice-President Stephens* I donft know where he was born but he had a plantation in Toliver County* Most of the Stephenses was lawyers* He was a lawyer too, and he would come to Sparta# That is where I was living then* There was more politics and political doings in Sparta than there was in Crawfordville where he lived* He lived between Montgomery and Richmond during the War, for the capital of the Confederacy was at Montgomery one time and Richmond another* "After the War, the Republicans nominated Alexander Stephens for governor• The Democrats knew they couldn't beat him, so they turned fround and nominated him too* He had a lot of sense* He said, flShat we lost on the battle-field, we will get it back at the ballot box*1 Seeb Reese, United States Senator from Hancock County, said, fIf you let the nigger have four or five dollars in his pocket he never will steal*1 Life Since Freedom "After my father died, my mother stayed where she was till Christmas* Then she moved back to the place she came from* We went to farming* % brother and my uncle went and farmed up in Hancock County; so the next year we moved up there* ie stayed there and farmed for a long *kile. My mother married three years afterwards* We still farmed* After while, I got to be sixteen years old and I wouldnft work with my stepfather« is* 164 j told my mother to hire me out; if she didn't I would be gone* She hired jae out all right* But the old man used all my money* The next year I made it plain to her that I wanted her to hire me out again but that nobody wee to use a dollar of my money* lly mother could get as much of it as she wanted but he couldnft* The first year I bought a buggy for them* The old man didnft want me to use it at all* I said, 'Well then, he can't use my money no more,' But I didn't stop helping him and giving him things* I would buy beef and give it to my mother* I knew they would all eat it* He asked me for some wheat* I wouldn't steal it like he wanted me to but I asked the man I was working for for it. Be said, 'Take just as much as you want.1 So I let him come up and get it* He would carry it to the mill* Ku Klux Klan , "The Ku Klux got after Uncle Sill once* He was a brave man* He had a little mare that was a race horse* Will rode right through the bunch before they ever realized that it was him* He got on the other side of them* She was gone! They kept on after him* They went down to his house one night* He would run for nothing* He shot two of them and they went away* Then he was out of ammunition* People urged him to leave, for they knew he didn't have no more bullets; but he wouldn't and they came back and killed him* "They came down to Hancock County one night and the boys hid on both sides of the bridge* When they got in the middle of the bridge, the boys commenced to fire on them from both sides, and they jumped into the river# The darkies went on home when they got through shooting at them; text there wasn't no more Ku Klux in Hancock County* The better thinking white folks got together and stopped it* ii. 165 "The Ku Klux kept the niggers scared* They cowed them down so that tkey wouldnft go to the polls* I stood there one night when they were counting ballots* I belonged to the County Central Committee# I went in and stood and looked* Our ballot was long; theirs was short* I stood and seen Clait Turner calling their names from our ballots* I went out and got 3u.be Turner and then we both went back. They couldn't call the votes that they had put down they had* Rube saw it* "Then they said, fAre you going to test this?f "flube said, 'Yes*' But he didn't because it would have cost too much money* Rube was chairman of the committee* "The Ku Klux did a whole lot to keep the niggers away from the polls in VJasliington and Baldwin counties* They killed a many a nigger down there* "They hanged a Ku Klux for killing his wife and he said he didn't mind being hung but he didn't want a damn nigger to see him die* "But they couldn't keep the niggers in Hancock County away from the polls. There was too many of them* Work in Little Rock ,fI came to Little Rock, November lf 1903* I came here with surveyors* They wanted to send me to Miami but I wouldn't go* Then I went to the mortar box and made mortar* Then I went to the school board* After that I ain't had no job* I was too old* I get a little help from the government* Opinions of the Present "I think that the young folks ought to make great men and women* But I don't see that they are making that stride* Most of them is dropping beloT? the mark* I think we ought to have some powerful men and women but fron what I see they don't stand up like they should* 124 186 Own Family nI have three daughters, no sons* These three daughters have twelve grandchildren* * 30446 Tnterrtewer Mlaa Irona Robertaon 167 Person interviewed Jrogie Moss (dark mulatto), Brlnkley, Arkansas Age 69 "When my grandma whut raised me got free she and grandpa come to Hem- phis and didn9t stay there long till they went to Crittenden County on a man's farm* My grandma was born in Alabama and my grandpa in Virginia*- I know he wasn't in the Nat Turner rebellion, for my mother had nine children and all bat me at Holly Grove, Mississippi* I was born up in Crittenden County* She died* I remember very little about my father* I jesf remember father a little* He died too* My grand parents lived at Holly Grove all during the war* They used to talk about how they did* She said hardest time she ever lived through was at Memphis* Nothing to do, nothing to eat and no places to stay* I donft know why they left and come on to Memphis* She said her master's name was Pig'ge* He wasn't married* He and his sisters lived together* My grandmother was a slave thirty years* She was a field hand* She said she would be right back in the field when her baby was two weeks old* They didn9t want the slaves to die, they cost too much money, but they give them mighty hard work to do sometimes* Grandma and grandpa was heap stronger I am at my age* They dldn9t know how old they was. Her master told her how long he had her when they left him and his father owned her before he died* I think they had a heap easier time after they come to Arkansas from what she said* I can9t answer yo questions because I'm just tell in1 you what I remembers and I was little when they used to talk so much* 2. 168 "If the young generation would save anything for the time when they canft work I think they would he all right* I donft hear about them saving* They buys too much* That their only trouble* They don't know how to see ahead* "I owns this house is all* I been siek a whole heap, spent a lot on my medicines and doetor bill* I worked on the farm till after I come to Briakley. We bought this place here and I cooks* I cooked for Miss Holly Brinkkell, Mr* Adams and Mrs. Fowler* I washes jand irons some when I can get it. Washing and ironing fbout gone out of fashion now* I donft get no money. I get commodities from the Sociable Welfare* My son works and they donft give me no money.* A 30354 Interviewer Thomas glmore lacy Person interviewed Moss Moss. Raasellville. Arkansas Age 65 169 »Mose Moss is ay name, soh* and I was born in 1875 in Tell County* Hy father was born in old Virglnny in 1831 and died in Tell County, Arkansas, eight miles from Dardanelle, in 1916• Tea soh, Ifve lived in Pope County a good many years* I recollects some things pretty well and some not so good* "Yes suht my father used to talk a heap about the Kb KLux Elan, and a lot of the Negroes were afraid of em and would run when they heard they was comin* around* "My fatherf s name was Henry Moss* He run away from the plantation In Virginia before the War had been goin' on very long, and he j'ined the army in Tennessee—yea sun, the Gonfedrijparmy* Ho suh, his name was never found on the records, so didn't never draw no pension* "After he was freed he always voted the Bepublican ticket till he died. "After the War he served as Justice of the Peace in his township in Tell County* Yes suh, that was the time they called the Be-coa-atiuc-tion« "I vote the Bepublican ticket, but sometimes I don't vote at the reg'lar elections* No, I»ve never had any trouble with ay voting ttI works at first one thing and another but ain't doin' much now* Work is hard to get* Used to work mostly at the mines* Hot able to do much of late years* "Oh, yes, I remember some of the old songs they used to sing when my Parents was living: 'Old-Time Religion' was one of em, and 'Swing Low, Sweet Chariot' was another one we liked to sing** 30488 Interviewer Miaa fi*ma Bebartaon. 1?0 Person interviewed S»Q* Mullins, Clarendon. Arkansas Janitor for Masonic Hall 80 He wears a Itesonic ring my master was B. F* Wallace *** Benjamin Franklin Wallace and Katie Wallace• They had no children to ay recollection* "I was born at Brittville, Alabama* My parentsf names was George W* Mullins and Millie# They had* to my recollection, one girl and three boys* Mr* Wallace moved to Arkansas before the Civil War* They moved to Phillips County* My mother and father both farm hands and when ay grandmother was no longer able to do the cookin* my mother took her place* I was rally too little to recollect but they always praised Wallace* They » said he never whipped one of his slaves In his life* His slaves was about free before freedom was declared* They said he was a good man* Well when freedom was declared all the white folks knowed it first* Be come down to the cabins and told us* He said you can stay and finish the crops* I will feed and clothe you and give you xmn #10 and you women #5 apiece Christmas* That was more money then than it is now* We all stayed on and worked on shares the next year* We stayed around Poplar Grove till he died* When I was nineteen I got a job* porter on the railroad* I brought my mother to Clarendon to live with me* I was in the railroad ser~ vice at least fifteen years* I was on the passenger train* Then I went to a sawmill here and then I failed* I been doing every little thing I could find to do since X been old* All I owns is a little house and six lots in the new addition* I live with my wife* She is my second wife* 171 Cause I am old they wouldn't let me work on the levy# If I been young I could have got work* My age knocks me out of fbout all the jobs* Some of it I could do* I sure don't get no old age pension* I gets $4 every two months janitor of the Masonic Hall* *I have a garden* Ho place for hog nor cow* "My boys in Chicago* They need 'bout all they can get* They don*t help. "The present conditions seem good* They can get cotton to pick and two sawmills run in the winter (100 men each) where folks can get work if they hire them* The stay (stave) mill is shut down and so is the button factory, That cuts out a lot of work here* The present generation is beyond me. Seems like they are gone hog wild*91 S Interviewer^T!^^—~~~~~,___ The next afternoon he met me and told me the following story:- ) "One night the servants quarters was overflowin' wid Yankee soldiers. I was scared nearly to death* My mother left me and my little brother cause she didn't wanter sleep in the house where the soldiers was* We slept on the floor and they used our beds* They left next mornin'. They camped in our yard under the trees* Next morning they was rldln1 out when old mistress saw fem* She said they'd get it pretty soon* When they crossed the creek *** Big Creek ~~ half mile from our cabins I heard the guns turn in on fem* The neighbors all fell out wid my master* They say he orter go fight too* He was sick all time* Course he wasn't sick* They come and took off 25 mules and all the chickens and he never got up* They took two fine carriage horses weighed 2,000 pounds apiece I speck* One named lee *• 172 and one Stone Wall* He never went out there* He claimed he was sick all time* One of the carriage horses was a fine big white horse and had a bay match* Folks didn't like him -* said he was a coward* When I went over cross the creek after the fightin1 was over, men just lay like dis* piled on top each other." {He used his fingers to show me how the soldiers were crossed.) 30725 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson____________ Person interviewed_______Alex Murdock. Edmondson, Arkansas Age 65 173 "My owner or least my folks was owned by Dr. (kirdock ("Q&-i&«NB^. He had a big farm* He was a widower* He had no children as ever I knowed of* ^Dr. Murder1 raised ay father's mother. He bought her at Tupelo, Miss- issippi. He raised mother too. She was bright color, I'm sure they stayed on after freedom * cause I stayed there till we come to Arkansas* Father wa3 a teamster. He followed that till he died* He owned a dray and died at Brinkley* He was well-known and honorable* ttI worked in the oil mill at Brinkley—American Oil Company* "Mother was learned durin' slavery but I couldn't say who done it* She taught school 'round Buena Vista and Okolona, Mississippi. She learned me* I wa3 born 1874—November 25, 1874. I heard her say she worked in the field one year. They give her some land and ploughed it so she could have a patch. It was all she could work. I don't know how much. It was her patch. Our depot was Prairie Station, Mississippi. My parents was Monroe Murdook^ Jtederj and Lucy Ann Murdook. It is spelled Mni-r-d-o-c-k. nI farmed all my whole life. Oil milling was the surest, quickest living but I likes farmin' all right* "I never contacted the Ku Kluxes. They was 'bout gone when I come on« "I voted off an' on* This is the white folks' country and they going to run their gov'mint. The thing balls us up is, some tells us one way and some more tells us a different way to do. And we don't know the best way* i i 2. 174 That balls us up* Tines is better than, ever I seen them, for the man that irants to work* *I get $8 a month* I work all I can** ¦a\^ 173 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Bessie Myers, Bras afield. Arkansas Age 50 ?. didnft know "My mother was named Jennie Bell* She was born in North Ca'lina (Carolina)* She worked about the house« She said there was others at the house working all the time with her* "She said they daresnft to cross the fence on other folks1 land or go off up the road * lessen you had a writing to show* One woman could write* She got a pass and this woman made some more* She said couldn't find nothing to make passes cru It happened they never got caught up. That woman didn't lire very close by* She talked like she was free but was one time a slave her own self* "Mother said she would run hide every time the Yankee men come* She said she felt safer in the dark* They took so many young women to wait on them and mother was afraid every time they would take her* "She said she had been at the end of a corn row at daylight ready to start chopping it over, or pull fodder, or pull ears either* She said they thought to lie in bed late made you weak* Said the early fresh air what 2&4e children strong* "Gn wash days they all met at a lake and washed* They had good times theru They put the clothes about on the bushes and briers and rail fences* Some one or two had to stay about to keep the clothes from a stray hog or 6°&t till they dried* And they would forage about in the woods* It was c°ol and pleasant* They had to gather up the clothes in hamper baskets *• 176 and bring them up to iron* Mother said thay didn't mind work much. They got used to it# "Mother told about man carried money in sacks* lien thay bought a slave, thay open up a sack and pall out gold and silver* •The way sha talked aha didn't mind slavery much* Papa lived till a few years ago but ha never would talk about slavery at all* His name was fillia Bell#» f 30378 J Intarvtiiiir- -r '" - T - ' W&&:&a&M>&-r-7-rr^r Person interviewed Mary Kyfaand/QlarlcsYllle. Arkanwus i) Age 83 "ity mmi* diad when Z was a little girl* Ska had three children and our shite folks took us in,their house and raised us* Two of us had fever and would hare diad if they hadnft got us a good doctor* The doctor they had first was a quack and wa ware getting worse until they called tha other doctor, than wa commence to gat well* I donTt know how old I am* ©ur birthdays was down in tha mistress1 filbla and whan tha old war cods upf the house was burned and lost everything hut I know I am at laaat 83 or 84 years old* Oar white folks was so good to us* They never whipped us, and wa aat what they aat and whan thay aat* Z was born in White County* Tennessee and moved to Missouri but tha folks did not like it there so wa ecus to Benton County, Arkansas* Qna side of tibia road was Benton County and tha other side was Washington County but wa always had to go to Bentonville, tha county seat, to tend to business* Z was a little tod of a girl whan tha war ocas up. One day word come that tha 'Ifeds* ware coming through and kill all of the old men and take all tha boys with thsm* so master took my brother and a grandson of his and started South* Z was so scared* Z followad them about a half mile before they found ma and Z bagged so hard thay took ma with them* la want to Texas and was there about one year when tha Ifeds gave the women on our placa orders to leave their home* Said thay owned it y now. They had just got to Texas where wa was when tha South surrendered and we all coma back home* *? 178 "We stayed with our white folks for about twenty years after the war0 They shore was good to me* I worked for them in the house but never worked in the field* I came across the mountain to Clarksville with a Methodist preacher and his family and married here* My husband worked in a livery stable until he died, then I worked for the white folks until I fell and hurt my knee and got too old* I draws my old age pension* "X do not know about the young generation* I am old and crippled and don't go out none** mvvij 179 Interviewer__________ Mrg« Bernioe Bowden_______________ Person interviewed Cteiff in Myrax 915 Missouri Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas 3 0 Afi9 77? *I donft know my age exactly* You know in them days people didn't take care of their ages like they do now* I couldn't give you any trace of the war, but I do remember when the Ku KLux was runnin1 around* "Oh Lord, so much of the time I heard my mother talk about the slavery* I was born in Oklahoma and my grandfather was a fuH** blooded Crete Indian* He was very much of a man and lived to be one hundred thirty years old* All Crete Indians named after some herb — that's what the name Myrax means* "I heard my mother say that in slavery times the man worked all day with weights on their feet so when night come they take them off and their feet feel so light they could outrun the Ku KLux* Now I heard her tell that* "14y parents moved from Oklahoiaa to Tfexas and I went to school in Marshall, Texas* All my schoolin* was in Texas —. my people was tied up there. My last schoolin* was in Buchanan, T&xas* The professor told my mother she would have to take me out of school for awhile, I studied too hard* I treasured my books* Ihen other children was out playin1 I was studyin1. 2« "There was some folks in that country that didn't get along so well* I remember there was a blind woiaan that the folks sent something to eat by another colored woman* Bat she eat it up and cooked a toadfrog for the old blind woman* That didnft occur on our place but in the neighborhood, then the people found it out they whipped her sufficient* "When my grandfather died he didnft have a decayed tooth in his head* They was worn off like a horse fs teeth but he had all of them* "I always followed sawmill work and after I left that I followed railroading* I liked railroading* I more or less kept that in my view* ••About this slavery — I couldn't hardly pass my sentiments on ito The world is so far gone, it would be the hardest thing to put the bridle on some of the people thatfs runnln1 wild now*11 180 yane of Interviewer Irene Robertson :' .WV; , .lh^,t Ex-slaves - Breams ~ HerbsfcCures and Remedies _____¦'- + ^orv - Information (if not enough space on this,page add page) His father and mother belonged to Tom Heal at Calhoun, Georgia* "e rs-r-ciriers the big battle at Atlanta Ga. ;He was eight years old.; He saw +'-* Mr^ts, (saw the bullets in the air at niglvfcland heard the boom, boom of ^ run~ ^•¦-:. cannons. They passed along with loaded wagons and in uniforms* The horses -ere beautiful, and he saw lots of fine saddles and bridles. His mis~ tress "--Tfl was Mrs* Tom Weal. . She had the property/and married Top Weal#. Sh& g "'¦-'M^f'Li'^'- ^d lr>^ married before and her first husband died but her first humbandfs name lis^i ca;.!i: ¦v- recalled. She had two children - girls - by her first husband. Her >.,/, :3-j~aI husband just married her to protect them all he could., ,- He didn't, do . r:v4:,:Vtg unless the old mistress told him to do it and how to do it# lylie !,real ;^ raised up with the old mistress children. He was born a slave and Vtz-1 o thirteen years.! "The family had some better to eat and lots more to v;<^r :.ut they gave me plenty and never did mistreat me." They had a peafowl ^ ^"•r4; ; s good luck, to keep some of them about on the place. They had guineas, ::-io\:-"3 a^d turkeys. They never had a farm bell. He never saw one till he a::.- ^: Arkansas. They blew a big ?,Conc^ shell11 instead* Mistress had oews" 3>> v.ould pour milk or pot-liquor out in a big pjgje^er bowl on a stump and od'llren would come up there from the cabins and eat It ill the field hands J 1 t:'rpe to cook a mealTj Wylie* s mother was a field hand. They drank out of oaos and gourds. The master mated his hands. Soise times he would ask his ,; ',v or woman if they knew anybody they would like to marry that he was , •*•¦:. lay nore help and*if they knew anybody he would buy them if lie could* ^ Urination given by_______Tom Try lie Meal______________________________ .f Residence Hazenf Arkansas ~ Hear Green Grove ion m Fanaer m Feeds cattle in the winter for a man in AGE 8f rA " X The v;ay they met folks thay would get asked to c orn sMuokiiigs and log rollings f.rjd Vrs* Neal always took some of her colored people to church to attend to the sto'jkftie the horses and hitch up* maylbe feed and to n^rse her little r'-lo at church* The colored folks sat on the back seats over in a corner *T.rot'-\er. If they didnft behave or talked out they got a whipping or didn't to vo no re* "They kept the colored people scared to be bad*n The colored folks believed in "Hoodoo and Pitches. Heard them talking lots about Pitches. They said if they ibund anybody was a witch they would kill j---f»rr# Pitches took on other forms and went out to do meanejas* They said some- *ir?s some of them got through latch holes* They, used buttons and door knobs -vnitlled out of wood, and door latches with strings. People married early in "^hem days11 - when Mistress oldest girl married .he --'.ore her Sumanthy, Wylies oldest sister when they come home {they would let 4 ;> her cc:reT\ They sent their children to school some but the Colored folks didn't Lc :.«cs.use it was "p&y school.11 Every year they had ttpertracted meeting*11 Lcr.lrcd like a thousand people come and stayed two or three weeks along in August, \ in 4;erts# "We had a big time then and some times wefd see a colored girl wefd a:h lh.e master to buy.-4 X?heyfd preach to the colored folks some days* Tell the:;: -:ho law* How to. behave and serve the Lord/** When W^lie was twelve years oL h::? ("Yanks y came and tore up the farm* 'It was just like these cyclones VrX 'h: around here in Arkansas, exactly like that* "' •/ His mistress left and he never saw her again* General Hood wss the A -h4"-'^ he thinks but he was given to Captain Condennens to wait on him* They 7^t ho Marietta, Ga^ and Kingston, Ga« frRumors came about that we.were free *"~ r^ry,,ody was drifting around. The U. S. Government gave us food then like •^;: ho now and we hunted work* Everybody nearly froze and starved.Wjfe wore "^ uniforms and slept anyjwhere we could find, an old house or piece of a house* T* 15? 5 - 1869 - the Ku Klux was mis^r^bl4 on the coloredh.-f61^* X*ots of folks -^d out of consumption in the spring and pneumoni*V%li::-^^b^* fV There wasn't any doctors seeing after o<||i§^^ i^^^^f" ¦*ev r.iiti 310-'- a they used herbs - only medicine they could get." Only herjbs he remembers -he, us^£gj| oaew black snake roots to settle • tomaoh...; Flux weed tea for disordered stomach. People eat so much *[messed up food" lot of them got sick. r ¦ Yiylie Neal wandered about and finally came to Chattanooga. They got oi; ur.irorms and victuals from the "Yanks" about a year. Colonel Stocker come and got up a lot of hands and paid"theirrwjy to :v.v!-i3 on the train. From there they were put on the "Molly Hamilton boat and Linden, Arkansasfon the St./Francis''liver* ' " He fared fine** there.In 3ame to Hazen and since then he has owned small farms at Biscoe and ior^y acres near Hazen. It was joining3 the old Joe Perry^laceV ^Dri*^-- got t mortgage on it and took it. Wylie Neal lives with his niece and she is old icj ;,o they get relief and a pension. ¦ . - •• .;•.'. "He don't believe in dreams but some dreams 'like when you dream of ....11 Lie ue*a v,hereAs show goner be falling weather." He "don't dream much* he says. 2e has a birthmark on his leg." it looks;iike a bunch of berries. He ..«v;r heard what caused it. It has always been there. so iiJo .:o 184 Interviewer Mrs* Berniee Bowden Person interviewed Sally Mealy________mmmmtm__ 105 Mulberry Street9 Pine Bluff, Arkansas Aae 91 "Yes mam, I was a slave 1 I was sixteen years old when the war begun. I was born in Texas* *lty old master was John Hall and my young master was Harse Dick* Marse John went to war the 5th day of May in 1861 and he was killed In June* They wasn't no thin9 left to bring home but his right leg and his left arm* They knowed it was him cause his name was tattooed on his leg* "He was a mean rascal* He brought us up from the plantation and pat us on the head and give us a little whisky and say 9Your name is Sally or Mary or Hose9 just like we was dogs* ™lfy old mistress, Miss Caroline, was a mean one too* She was the mother of eight children —> five girls and three boys* When she combed her hair down low on her neck she was all right but when she come down with it done up on the top of her head —• look out* "It was my job to scrub the big cedar churns with brick dust and Irish potato and polish the knives and forks the same way* Then every other day I had to mold twelve dozen candles and sweep the yard with a dogwood bresh broom* •Sao didn't giro us bo biscuits or sugar ?seat on Christmas. Jest abort* and molasses for oar ooffee. When the Yankee soldiors cone through old mistress ran and hide ia the collar bat the Tankeoo aont don la the collar toe ana took all the bams and honey and brandied peaches sho had* •They didn't nave no doetors for tho niggers then. Old aistrosa just giro us oomo blue mass aad castor oil and they didn't give you nothin' to take the taste oat year mouth either, •Oh Lord, I know 'boat then Xu KLux. They wore false faces and went around whippin' people, •After tho surrender I went to stay with Miss Fulton, Sho was good to bo aad Z stayed with her eleven years. Sao wanted to know how old I was so ay father went to Bias Caroline aad she say I 'boat twenty now, •Some white folks was good to their alares. I know one man, Hoc Yatea, whoa he killed bogs ho give the niggers firm of 'em. Course bo took tho host bat that waa all right, •?After freedom the Tankoes sons aad took the colored folks away to the marshal'a yard aad kept then till they get jobs for *ea* They wont to tho white folks houses aad took things to food tho niggers* •I ain't been married but oaoo, X thought I waa la love bat X wasn't. Lota la a iteala* 'round tho heart yea oan»t gat at to acreteh* "I 'member oaa song they gang durin' the war 'The Yankees am comin' through 5y fall aaa I ¦o'll all drink atone blind Johnny fill ap tho bowl,» » o 186 FOIELOBE SOBJECTS Name of interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowdon Subject Songs of Civil War Bays Story ~ Information (If not enough space on this page, add page) (1) *In eighteen hundred and sixty-one Football (?) sez I; In eighteen hundred and sixty-one That's the year the ear begun We'll all drink stone blind, Johnny, come fill up the bowl* (2) "In eighteen hundred and sixty-two Football (?) sez I; In eighteen hundred and sixty-two That's the year we put 'em through We'll all drink stone blind, Johnny, come fill up the bowl* (3) "In eighteen hundred and sixty-three Football (?) sez I; In eighteen hundred and sixty-three That'8 the year we didn't agree We'll all drink stone blind, Johnny, come fill up the bowl* (4) "In eighteen hundred and sixty-four Football (?) sez I; m eighteen hundred and sixty-four We'll all go home end fight no more We'll all drink stone blind, Johnny, come fill up the bowl* (5) "In eighteen hundred and sixty-five Football (?) sez I; In eighteen hundred and sixty-five We'll have the Bebsls dead or alive We'll all drink stone blind, Johnny, come fill up the bowl* Mils information given by Sally Moeley ( ) Place of residence 108 H, Mulberry, Pine Bluff. Arkansas Occupation Hone las 90 «• 187 (6) *Ih eighteen hundred and sixty-six Football (?) sez I; In eighteen hundred and sixty-six We'll have the Bebels in a helave fix We'll all drink stone blind, Johnny, cone fill up the bowl* (7) *In eighteen hundred and sixty-seven Football (?) sez I; In eighteen hundred and sixty-seven We'll hare the Bebels dead and at the devil We'll all drink stone blindt Johnny, come fill up the bo«l#" Interviewer's Gosnent The vord •football* doesn't sound right in this song, but I was unable to find it in print, and Sally seemed to think it was the right word* Sally is a very wicked old woman and swears like a sailor, but she has a remarkable memory? She was •bred and born* in Busk County, Texas and says she came to Pine HLuff when it was «juftt a little pig#« Says ahe was sixteen when the Civil War began* I have previously reported an Interview with her* Interviewer Mies Irene Robertson Person interviewed_____________Wylte Mealy Bi'sdoe, kyk*™** 7 « Age 85 188 I was born in 1852. I am 85 years old. I was born in Gordon County. The closest town was Calhoun, South Carolina. My sister died in f59. Thatfs the first dead .person I ever saw. One of my sisters was give away and another one was sold before the Civil War started. Sister Mariah was give to the young mistress, Miss Ella Conley. I didn't see her sold. I never seed nobody sold but I heard fem talking about it» I had five sisters and one brother« My father was a free man always. He was a Choctaw Indian. Mother was part Cherokee Indian. My mother1 s mistress was Mrs. Martha Christian. He died and she married Tom Nealy, the one they call me fur, lylie Nealy. Liberty and Freedom was all I ever heard any colored folks say dey expected to get out of de war, and mighty proud of dot. Kobody knowed they was goin to have a war till it was done broke out and they was fight in about it. Didn't nobody want land, they jess wanted free-* dom. I remembers when Lincoln was made the President both times and when he was killed. I recollects all that like yesterday* The army had been through and swept out everything. There wasnft a chicken or hog nowhere to be had, took the stock and cattle and all the provisions. So de slaves jess had to scatter out and leave right now* 8. 189 jnd after de army come through I was goin back down to the old place and some soldiers passed riding along and one said •Boy where you goin? Said nothing up there•• I says, *I knows it** Then he say *Come on here, walk along back there* and I followed him* I was twelve years old* He was Captain McClendenny. Then when I got to the camp wid him he say *You help around here** I got sick and they let me go back home then to Resacca, Georgia and my mother died* When I went back they sent me to Chattanooga with Captain Story* I was in a colored regi- ment nine months* I saw my father several times while I was at Chattanooga* We was in Shermans army till it went past Atlanta* They burned up the city. Two of my masters come out of the war alive and two dead. I was mustered out in August 1865* I stayed in camp till my sisters found a cabin to move in* Everybody got rations issued out* It was a hard time* I got hungry lots times* No plantations was divided and the masters didnft have no more than the slaves had when the war was done* After the Yankees come in and ripped them up old missus left and Mr. Tom Healy was a Home Guard* He had a class of old men. Never went back or seen any more of them* Everybody left and a heap of the colored folks went where rations could be issued to them and some followed on in the armies* After I was mustered out I stayed around the camps and went to my sister's cabin till we left there. Made anything we could pick up* Men come in there getting people to go work for them* Some folks went to Chicago* A heap of the slaves went to the northern cities* Colonel Stocker, a officer in the Yankee army, got us to come to* a farm in Arkansas* We wanted to stay together is why we all went on the farm* May 1866, when we come &• 190 to Arkansas is the first farmin I had seen done since I left Tom Nealy's place* Colonel Stocker is mighty well known in St.. Itancis County. He brought lots of fsmilies, brought me 6nd my brother, my two brothers and a nephew. We come on the train. It took four or five days. When we got to Memphis we come to Linden on a boat ••Molly Hamilton* they called it. I heard it was sunk at Madison long time after that* Colonel Stocker promised to pay |6 a month and feed us. When Christmas come he said all I was due was #12,45* We made a good crop* That wasnft it. Been there since May. Had to stay till got all the train and boat fare paid* There wasnft no difference in that and slavery fcept they couldnft sell us* I heard a heap about the Kn KLux but I nebber seed them* Every- body was scared of them* The first votin I ever heard of was in Grantfs election* Both black and white voted* I voted Bepublican for Grant. lot of the southern soldiers was franchised and couldnft vote. Just the private soldiers could vote at tall. I donft know why it was. I was a slave for thirteen years from birth. Every slave could vote after freedom. Some colored folks held office. I knew several magistrates and sheriffs. There was one at Helena (Arkansas) and one at Marianne. He was a High Sheriff. I voted some after that* but I never voted in the last Presidento election* I heard *em say it wasn't no use, this man would be elected anyhow* I sorter quit off long time ago* In 1874 and 1875 I worked for halves and made nough to buy a farm in St. Francis County. It cost #925. I bought it in 1887. 4. 191 Eighty acres to be cleared down in the bottoms* My family helped and when my help got shallow, the children leaving me, I sold it for $3,000, in 1904* I was married jess once and had eight children; five livin and three dead* Me and the old woman went to Oklahoma* We went in January and come back to Biscoe (Arkansas) in September* It wasnft no place for farming* I bought 40 acres from Mr. Aydelott and paid him $500. I sold it and come to Mr. Joe Perryfs place, paid $500 for 40 acres of timber land* We cleared it and I got way in debt and lost it. Clear lost it! Ize been working anywhere I could make a little since then. Bfy wife died and I been doing little jobs and stays about with my children. The Welfare gives ms a little check and some supplies now and then. No maam, I can't read much* I was not learnt. I could figure a little before my eyes got bad. The white folks did send their children to pay schools but we colored children had to stay around the house and about in the field to work* I never got no schoolin* I went with old missus to camp meeting down in Georgia one time and got to go to white church sometimes* At the camp meeting there was a big tent and all around it there was brush harbors and tents where people stayed to attend the meetins* They had four meetins a day* Lots of folk got converted and shouted* They had a lot of singing* They had a lots to eat and a big time* I don't think much about these young folks now* It seems lack everybody is having a hard time to live among us colored folks* Some white folks has got a heap and fine cars to get about in. I donft know what go in to become of fem* 5. 192 People did sing more than I hear them now hut I never could sing# They sing a lot of foolish songs and mostly religious songs* I don't recollect of any slave uprising* I never heard of any* We didnft know they was going to have a war till they was fighting* Yes maam, they heard Lincoln was going to set fem free, but they didn't know how he was going to do it. Everybody wanted freedom* Mr. Hammond (white) ask me not long ago if I didnft think it best to bring us from Africa and be slaves than like wild animals in Africa. He said we was taught about God and the Gospel over here if we was. slaves* I told him I thought dot freedom was de best any- where. We had a pretty hard time before freedom. My mother was a field woman. When they didn't need her to work they hired her out and they got the pay. The master mated the colored people* I got fed from the white folks table whenever I curried the horses* I was sorter raised up with Mr. Nealy's children* They didn't mistreat me. On Saturday the mistress would blow a cone shell and they knowed to go and get the rations. We got plenty to eat* They had chickens and ducks and geese and plenty milk* They did have hogs* They had seven or eight guineas and a lot of peafowls. I never heard a farm bell till I come to Arkansas* The children et from pewter bowls or earthen ware. Sometimes they et greens or milk from the same bowl, all jess dip in. The Yankees took me to General Hoodfs army and I was Cap- ^A tain McCondennen's helper at the camps. le went down through Marietta and Atlanta and through Kingston* Shells come over where we lived* 6. 193 I saw 'em fight all the time* Saw the light and heard the roaring of de guns miles away* It looked like a storm where the army went along* They tramped the wheat and oats and cotton down and turned the horses in on the corn* The slaves show did hate to see the Yankees waste everything* They promised a lot and wasnft as good as the old masters* ill dey wanted was to be waited on too* The colored folks was freed when the Yankees took all the stock and cattle and rat ions • Everybody had to leave and let the government issue them rat ions* Everybody was proud to be free. They shouted and sung* They all did pretty well till the war was about to end then they was told to scatter and no whars to go. Cabins all tore down or burned* No work to do* There was no money to pay* I wore old uniforms pretty well till I come to Arkansas* I been here in Hazen since 1906* I come on a boat from Bfemphis to Linden* Colonel Stocker brought a lot of us on the train. The name of the boat was Molly Hamilton. It was a big boat and we about filled it* I show was glad to get back on a farm* I donft know what is gain to become of the young folks* Every- thing is so different now and when I was growin up I don't know what will become of the younger generation* 30731 194 gji Interviewer , Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Bmaline Neland» Marianne, Arkansas Age Bora 1859 *I was born two years before the War* I was born in Murray County, Tennessee* It was middle Tennessee* When I come to remembrance I was in Grant County, Arkansas* When I remember they raised wheat and corn and tobacco* Mother1 s master was Br* Harrison* His son was married and me and my brother Anderson was give to him* He come to Arkansas 'fore ever I could remember* He was a farmer bat I never seen him hit a liek of work in my life* He was good to me and my brother* She was good too* I was the nurse* They had two children* Brother was a house boy* Me and her girl was about the same size but I was the oldest* Being with the other children I called her mother too* I didnft know no other mother till freedom* "Freedom! Well, here is the very way it all was; Old master told her (mother) she was free* He say, tGo get your children* you free as I is now.' Ain't I heard her say it many a time? Well, mother come in a oz wagon what belong to him and got us* They run me down, caught me and got me in the wagon* They drove twenty-five miles* Old Dr* Harrison had moved to Arkansas* Being with the other children I soon learnt to call her mac She had In all ten or eleven children* She was real dark* nPa was a slave too* He was a low man* He was a real bright man* He was brighter than I is* He belong to a widow woman named Tedford* He re- named his self after freedom* He took the name Brown Y stead of Tedford* I never heard him say why he wasn't satisfied with his own name* He was a soldier* He worked for the Yankees* z. 195 "After the War pa and ma got back together and lived together till she died* There was fire days9 difference in their deaths* They died of uneumonia* He was 64 years old and she was 54 years old* I was at home when pa come from the War* All my sisters was light, one sister had sandy hair like pa* She was real light* Ma was a good all fround woman* She cooked more than anything else* She nursed* Dr. Harrison told her to stay till her husband come back or all the time if he didn't ever come back* Ma never worked in the field* When pa come he moved us on a place to share crop* Ma never worked in the field* He was buying a home in Grant County* He started to Mississippi and stopped close to Helena and ten or twelve miles from Marianna* He had a soldier friend wouldnYt let him go* He told him this was a better country. He decided to stay down in here* "I heard a whole heap about the Ku KLux* One time when a crowd was going to churchy we heard horse's feet coming; sound like they would run over us* le all got clear out of reach so they wouldnft run over us* They had on funny caps was all I could see, they went so fast* We give them the clear road and they went on* That is all I ever seen of the Bu Klux* *I seen Dr. Harrison's wife* She was a little old lady but we left after I went there* "I used to sew for the public* Yes, white and colored folks* I learnt ay own self to sew* I never had but one boy in my life* He died at seven weeks old* I raised a stepson* I married twice* I married at home both tines. Just a quiet marriage and a colored preacher married me both times* "The present conditions is hard* I want things and can't get fem* If I had the strength to hold out to work I could get along* 5- 196 "The present generations-young white and blaek~blinds me* They turns corners too fast* They going so fast they don't have time to take advice•> Tbey promise to do better but they donft* They do like they want to do and don't tell nobody till they done it* I say they just running way with their selves* *I get $8 and a little help along* Ifm thankful for it* It is a blessing I tell you.* #769 Interviewer Samuel S» Taylor Person Interviewed Henry Melaon 904 E. Fifth Street, Little Rock, Arkansas Age About 70 197 "My name is Henry Nelson* I was born in £rkansas~~Crittenden County near Memphis, Tennessee a I was born not far from Memphis but on this side* "My mother1 s name was Adeline Taylor* That was her old slavery folks1 name* She was a Taylor before she married my fathers-Nelson* My father1 s first name was Green* X donft remember none of my grandparents* My father1 a mother died before I come to remember and I know my motherfs mother died before X could remember* "My father was born in Mississippi—Sardis, Mississippi—*and my mother was a Tennesseean—•Cartersville, Tennessee, twenty-five miles above Memphis* "After peace was declared, they met in Tennessee* That was where my mother was bornf you know* They fell in love with one another in Shelby County9 and married there* My mother had been married once before during slavery time* She had been made to marry by her master« Her first husband was named Eli* He was my oldest sisterfs father* Him and my mother had the same master and missis* She was made to marry him* She was only thirteen years old when she married him* She was fine and stout and her husband was fine and stout* and they wanted more from that stock* I donft know how old he was but he was a lot older than she was*. He was a kind of *& elderly man* She had just one child by him-nmy oldest sister, Georgia* She was only married a short time before freedom came* !? s. 198 "My father farmed* He was always a farmer—raised cotton and corn* My mother was a fanner too* Both of thei&~-that is both of her husbands**** were farmers* "My mother and father used to go off to places to dance and the pateroles would get after them* You had to have a pass to go off your place and if you didn't have a pass, they would make you warm* Some of them would get caught sometimes and the pateroles would whip them* They would sure get whipped if they didn't have a pass* "The old master come out and told them they were free when peace was declared. He said, 9You are free this morning—-free as I am*1 "Right after the War, my mother come further down In Tennessee, and that is how she met my father where she was when she was married* They went farming* They farmed on shares—sharecropped* They were on a big place called Snsley place* The man that owned the place was called Nuck Bnsley* "My mother and father didnft have no schooling* I never heard that they were bothered by the Eu ELux* "She didnft live with her first husband after slavery* She left htm when she was freed* She never did intend to marry him* She was forced to that** V^ter, W Carter Cov^Mwi 3£>t.^r\io{ Mewtphk, ^^ Interviewer1s Comment Nelson evidently rents rooms* A yellow aallow**facedf cadaverousf and dissatisfied looking "gentleman11 went into the house eyeing me suspiciously aa he passed* In a moment he was out again Interrupting the old man* 3. 199 with pointless remarks* In~-out again—standing over me-~peering on my paper in the offensive way that ill-bred people have* He straightened up with a disgusted look on his face* He couldn't read shorthand* "What's that you're writ in1?* "Shorthand*" "What's that about?" "History,* "History uv whut?* "Slave ry** "He donft know nothin* about slavery," "Thank you. However, if he says he does, I'll just continue to listen to him if you don't mind,* "Humph," and the "yellow gentleman* passed in* Out again—eyeing both the old man and me with disgust that was unconcealed* To him, *You don't know whutchu,re doin'*" Deep silence by all* Exit the yellow brother« To the old man, I said, *Is that your son?" "Lawd, no, that's jus1 a roomer,* Out came the yellow brother again* •See here, Uncle, if you want me to fix that fence youfd bettuh come awn out heah now, Itfs gettin' dark** I closed my notebook and aroset* *Donft let me interfere with your program, Brother Melson** The old man settled back in his chair* His eyes inspected the sky, his jaw "sorta* set* The yellow brother looked at him a minute and passed on* Five minutes later* Enter, the Madam, She also was of the yellow variety with the suspicious and spiteful look of an undersized black Belgian police dog*/A moment of silence—a word to him* 4. 200 "You donft know whutchu're doinf• " Silence all around* To me, "You're upsettin* ray work** I arose* "Madam* Ifm sorry«" The old man spoke, "You ain't keepin* me from nothin'*" "Well, I said, you've given me a nice start; I111 come again and get the resto* $> 30731 301 Interviewer Kiss Irene Robertson Person interviewed______Henry Kelson, Bdmondson, Arkansas Age 70 "My mother belong to the Tfetylors close to Carterville, Tennessee* My father never was sold. He belong to the Nelsons* My parents married toreckly after the surrender and come on to this state* I was born ten miles from Edmondson. Their names was Adeline and Green Nelson* They didn't get nothing after freedom like land or a horse* Ifm seventy years old and I would have known* "I was at Alton, Illinois in the lead works thirteen years ago and I had a stroke* I been cripple ever since* "My folks never spoke of being nothing but field hands* Polks used to be proud of their crops, go look over them on Sunday when company come* Now if they got a garden they hide it and don't mention it*Ni Times is changed that way* "Clothes ain'-t as las&y as they used to be* People has a heap more money to spend and donft raise and have much at home aa they did when I was a child* Times is all turned around and folks too* I always had plenty till I couldn't do hard work* I farmed my early life* We didnft have much &oney but we had rations and warm clothes* I cleared new ground, hauled *ood9 big logs* I steamboated on the Sun, Kate Adams, and One Arm John* I helped with the freight* I railroaded with pick and shovel and in the lead &iaes* I worked from Memphis to Helena on boats a good while* I come back here to farm* Time is changed and Ifm changed* 2* £()o «It has been so long since I heard my parents tell about slavery I couldn't tell you straight* She told till she died, talked about how the Yankees done when they come through* They took axes and busted up good furniture* They et up and wasted the rations, then humor up the black folks like they was in their favor when they was settin* out wasting their living* They done made it to live on* Some followed them and some stayed on* They wanted freedom but it wasn't like they thought it would be* THaey didnft know how it would be* They didn9t know it meant set out* Seem like they left. In some ways times was better and some ways it was worse* They had to work or starve is what they told me* Thatfs the way I found freedom* 'Course their owners made them work and he looked out for the ration end in slavery* ttI keeps up my own self all I can* I don't get help** XL**~«Z^ Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Iran Kelson______________ 603 E. Fourteenth Ave., Pine BLuff , Ark* Age 77 "Yes ma'm, they fotch me from Mississippi to Arkansas on the steamboat —* you know they didn't have railroads then* They fotch my mother and they went back after grandfather and grandmother too* wDr# Noell was our master and he had us under mortgage to his brother~in-*law# They fotched us here till he could get straight from that debt, but fore that could be, we got free* "I knowed slavery times* I member seein* em lash some of the rest but you know I wasn't big enough to put in the field* Old mistress say ?rtien I got big enough, she goinf take me for a house girl* When they fotched mama and grandmother here they had eigjhty some odd head of niggers* They was gwine carry em back home after they got that mortgage paid but the war come* "I member when the Yankees come, my white folks would run and hide and hide us-colored folks too* Boss man had the colored folks get all the raeat out of the smokehouse and hide it in the peach orchard in the grass* "I used to play with old mistress daughter Addie* We would play in the parlor and after we moved to town some of the little girls would pick up and go home* You know these town folks didnft believe in ?lay in f with the colored folks* 203 2* wAfter mama was free she stayed right there on the place and made a crop* Baised eight hundred bales and the average was nine* Mama plowed and hoed too* I had to work right with her too* *I never went to school but once* I learned my ABG's bat couldn't read* My next ABCVs was a hoe In my hand* Mama had a switch right under hex* belt* I worked but I couldnH keep up* Just see in1 that switch was enough* I had a pretty good time when I was young, but I bad to go all the time** 304 805 & Interviewer Mrs* Bernics Bowden Person interviewed Age 88 Teats Henry Helaon 1105 Orangi, Pile Bluff, Arkansas Occupation Gardener *I member all about tie war ~» way of cose. I saddled many a cavalry boss. I tell you how I know now old X am. Old mastery Henry Stanley of Athens, Alabama, moved to Pole ski, Tennessee and left me with young mis- tress to take care of things. One day we was drivin* up some stock and I said, 'Hiss Nannie, how old is you?* And she said, *I'm seventeen*' I was old enough to have the knowledge she would know how old I was and I said. 'How old am I?' And she said, 'You is seven years old.* That was durin* the war* "I remember the soldiers eomin' and stoppin* at our building -*» Yankees and Southern soldiers, too* They fit all around our plantation* "The Yankees taken me when I was a little fellow* About two years after the war started, young Marse Henry went to war and took a colored man with him but he ran away — he wouldn't stay with the Rebel army* So young Marse Henry took me* Z reekon I was bout ten* I know I was big enough to saddle a cavalry Hoss* Ye carried three horses — his hoss, my hoss and a peek hoss* You know chillun them days, they made em do a man's work. I studied bout my mother durin* the war, so they let me go home* "One day I went to mill* They didn't low the chillun to lay around, and while I was at the mill a Yankee soldier rldin* a white hoss captured me and took me to Fulaskl, Tennessee and then I was in the Yankee army* I wasn't no size and I don't think he would a took me if it hadn't been for the hoss* s. £06 "ie come baek to Athens and the Rebels captured the whole army. Colonel Camp was In charge and General Forrest captured us and I was carried south* le was marehin* along the line and a Rebel soldier said, •Don't you want to go horns and stay with my wife?* And so I went there, to MillvillQ, Alabama. Then he bound me to a friend of his and I stayed there till the war bout ended* I was getting along very well but a older boy ?euaded me to run away to Beeatur, Alabama* *0h I seen lots of the war* Bof sides was good to me* I*ve seen many a scout* The captain would say *By 0 dose the ranks** Captains is right crabbed* I stayed back with the bosses. "After the war I worked about for this one and that one* Some paid me and some didn't* *I can remember baek to Breckenridgej and I can remember hear in* em say 'Hurrah for Buchanan! * I*m just tellin* you to show how fur baek I can remember* I used to have a book with a picture of Abraham Lincoln with an axe on his shoulder and a picture of that log cabin, but somebody stole my book* *I worked for whoever would take me «~ I had no mother then* If Z had had parents to make me go to school, but I got along very well* The white folks taught me not to hare no bad talk* They'a all dead now and if they wasn't I'd be with them* "I'm a natural born farmer —* that's all I know* The big overflow dromded me out and my wife died with pellagra in '27. She was a good woman and nice to white folks* I'm just a bach in' here now* I did stay with my daughter but she is mean to me, so I juat picked up my rags and moved into this room where I can live in peace* I'm a Christian man* s. 207 and I canft live right with her, When colored folks is mean, they? a meaner than white foiks* "I'm gettin* along very nell now* I been with white folks all my day -«» and it's hard for me to get along with my folks* "In one way the world is crueler than they used to be* They donf t appreciate things like they used to. They have no feelinfa and donft care no thin1 bout the olden people* "fell, good-bye, Ifm proud of you.* £47 ¦\^~ J^L^ 208 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson o Person interviewed John Nelson, Holly Grove» Arkansas Age 76 ••My parents was Jazz Nelson and Mahaney Nelson* He come from Louisiana durin* slavery* She come from Richmond, Virginia* I think from what they said he come to Louisiana from there too* They was plain field hands* "My folks belong to Hiss Mary Ann Richardson and Massa Harve Richardson* They had five children and every one dead now* They lived at Duncan Station* ••The white folks told em they was free. They had no place to go and they been workin1 the crop, White folks glad for em to stay and work on* Aad the truth is they was glad to git to stay on cause they had no place to go* They kept stay inf on a long time* *I was so small I donft know if the Ku KLux ever did come bout our place at tall*91 # 30766 * A Interviewer Person. interviewed^ Age 55 or 56? Hiss Irene Robertson Lettlo Balsam St* Marys Street, Helena, Arkansas S09 "Grandma was Pat ay Smith. She said la slavery they had a certain amount of cotton to pick* If they didn't have that amount they would put their heads between the rails of the fences and whoop them* They whooped than in the ebenln' when they weighed up the cotton. Grandma was raised in Virginia. She was light* Mama was light* They was carried from Virginia to Louisiana in wagons* They found elothes along the road people had lost* She said several bundles of good elothes* They thought they had dropped off of wagons ahead of then* They washed and wore the elothes* Some of 'em fit so they wore them* Mama left her husband and brother in Virginia* Xd Smith was her second husband* He was a light man* My grandpa was a field man* I never heard if grandpa was sold* Jimaie Stansberry was the man that bought or brought mama and grandma to Louisiana* Mama cooked and worked in the field both* Grandma did toe* She cooked in Louisiana more than mama* They belong to Lou and Jlmmle Stansberry and they had two boys* They lived close to Mindens Louisiana* I don't know so much about my parents and grandma talked but we didn't pay enough attention to remember it all* She was eld and got things confused* "They was glad when freedom come but they lived on with Ximmie Stane- terry* X remember them* Grandma raised me after my parents died* Then she lived with me till she died* She was awful eld when she died* They would talk about how different Virginia and Louisiana was* It took them a long time to make that trip** 210 Interviewer Mrs. Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Mattie Kelson 710 E. Fourth Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 72 *I was born in Ghicot County, Arkansas in f65. They said I was born on the roadside while we was on our way here from Texas. They had to camp they said. Some people called it emigrate. Now thatfs the straightest way I can tell it. "Our mistress and master was named Chapman. I member when I was a child mistress used to be so good to us© After surrender my parents stayed right on there with the Chapmans, stayed right on the place till they died* ?•My mudder and pappy neither one of em could read or write, but I went to school. I always was apt* I am now* I always was one to work — yes mafm — rolled logs, hope clean up new ground — yes mafm. When we was tot in1 logs, Ifd say, *Put the big end on me* but they'd say, "No, you1 re a woman.11 Yes mafm I been here a long time. I do believe in stirrinf work for your livin*, yes mafm, that's what I believe in* "I been workin1 ever since I was six years old* My daughter was just like me •*- she had a gift, but she died* I seen all my folks die and that lets me know I got to die too* ••White folks used to come along in buggies, and hoss back too, and stop and watch me plow. Seem like the hotter the sun was the better I liked it* t *Yes mafm, I done all kinds a work and I feels it now, too** 30750 £v Interviewer_________________Mrs* Beraice Bowden Person interviewed__________________Dan Newborn 211 Age 78 1000 Louisiana, Pine Bluff, Arkansas "I was born in I860* Born in Knoxville, Tennessee* I suppose it was in the country* "Solomon Walton was my motherfs owner and my father belonged to the iiewborns. My grandmother belonged to the Buggs in Richmond, Virginia and she was sold to the Waltons* When my mother died in f65 my grandmother raised me* After she was freed she went to the Powell Clayton place* Her daughter lived there and she sent up the river and got her. I went too* Lie and two more boys. "I never went to school but about thirty days* Hardly learned my alphabet* rfIn f&69 ray grandmother bound two of us to Powell Clayton for our 'vittils1 and clothes and schoolin1, but I didn't get no schoolin1. I waited in the house* Stayed there three years, then we come back to the rfalton place. "My grandmother said the Waltons treated her mean* Beat her on the head find that was part of her death* Every spring her head would run* She said they didn't get much of somethin' to eat* "I was married ffore my grandmother died—to this wife that died two months ago* We stayed together fifty-seven years* nTo my idea, this younger generation is too wild—not near as settled down as when I was comin1 up. They used to .obey* Why, I slept in the bed 2- 212 with, my grandmother till I was married* She whipped me the day before I was married* It was fcause I had disobeyed her* Children will resist their mothers now* nI think the colored people is better off now f cause they got more privilege, but the way some of fem use their privilege, I think they ought to be slaves* "My grandmother taught me not to steal* My white folks here have trusted me with two and three hundred dollars* I donft want nothin* in the world but mine* WI been workin* here for Fox Brothers thirty-eight years and they'll tell you therefs not a black mark against me* "I used to be a mortar maker and used to sample cotton. Then I worked at the Cotton Belt Shops eight years* nITve bought me a home that cost $780* "I donft mind tellin* about myself f cause Ifve been honest and you can go up the river and get my record* "Out of all due respect to everybody, the Yankees is the ones I like* "Vote? Oh yes, Republican ticket* I like Rooseveltfs administration* If I could vote now, I'd vote for him* He has done a whole lot of good*1* 80417 8*3 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Sallie Newsom Age 75? Brinkley, Ark. "Miss, I donTt know my age, but I know I is old. I'm sick now* "My grandma's mistress and mama's mistress and my mistress was Kiss Jennie Brawner at Thomasville, Georgia* Me and my old- est sister was born in Atlanta* Then freedom come on# My own papa wanted mama to follow him to Mississippi. He had a wife there* She wouldn't go* She stayed on a while with Mr* Acy and Kiss Jennie* They come from Virginia* Her name was Catherine* "Grandma toted her big hoop dresses about and carried her trains up off the floor. Combed her long glossy hair. Mama was a house girl too, but then grandma took to the kitchen* She was the cook then. "Old Miss Jennie wanted mama to give her my oldest sister Lulu, so mama gave her to her* Then when we started to come to Holly Grove, Mississippi, Miss Jennie still wanted her* Mama didn't want to part from her* She was married again and brought me but my aunts told mama to leave her there, she would have a good home and be educated, so she 'greed to leave her two years* She sent back for her at the end of two years; she wrote and didn't want to come* She was still at Miss Jennie's* I haben seen her from the day we left Atlanta till this very day. A woman, colored woman, was here in Brinkley once seen her* Said s. S14 she was so fin© and nice • Had nice soft skin and was well to do. I have wrote hut my letters come back. I know Miss Jennie is dead, and my sister may be by now* "My papa was Abe Brooks. His master was Mars Jonas Brooks. Old master give him to the young master. He was rich, rich, and traveled all time* His pa give him a servant. He cooked for him, drove his carriage - they called it a brake in them days - followed him to the hotels and bar-rooms. He drink and give him a dram. When he was freed he oome to Mississippi with the Brooks to farm for them, I went to see my papa at Waterford, Miss^ "When we was at Holly Springs, Mississippi my cousin was a railroad man so he helped me run away. He paid my way, I come to Clarendon, I cooked, washed and ironed. In two or three years I went back to see mama. They was glad to see me. They had eight children. "I couldn't guarantee you about the eight younger children, but there ain't a speck of no kind of blood about me and Lulu Violet but African, We are slick black Negroes. (She is very black, large and bony.) "Miss Jennie Brawner had one son - Gus Brawner - and he may be living now in Atlanta. "My uncle said he seen the Yankees come through Thomas- ville, Georgia. I never seen an army of them. I seen soldiers, plenty of em. None of the Brooks or Brawners went to war that I heard of. I was kept close and too young to know much of what happened. I heard about the Eu Klux but I never seen them, "I know Miss Jennie Brawner come from Virginia but I don't 3* 215 jaiow if she brought grandma with her or bought her* She never did say. "I don't vote. My husband voted. I don't know how he voted. "Since I been sick, I get a check and commodities." ;A1i 30375 216 ,&> S? Interviewer______________Miss Sallle C* Miller ;v Person interviewed Bate Hewton. Clarksville. Arkansas Age 85 Oopupation Baraar and day laborer "My white folks was as good to as as they could be* I ain't got no kick to make about my white people* The boys was all brave* I was raised on the farm* I staid with my boss till I was nearly grown* when the war got so hot ay boss was afraid the 'Pads' would get us* He sent my moony to Texas and sent me in the army with fdolj Bashom. to take care of his horses* I was about eleven or twelve years old* (Col.-; Bashea was always good to me* He always found a place for me to sleep and eat* Sometimes after the colonel left the folks would run me off and not let ae stay but I never told the colonel* I went to Boston, Texas with the colonel and his man and when he went on the big raid into Missouri he left ae la Sevier County, Arkansas with his horses 'Little Baldy' and 'Orphan Boy'. They was raee horses* The colonel always had race horses* He was killed at Pilot Knoib, Missouri* After the colonel was killed his son George (I shore did think a lot of George) come after me and the horses and brough* us home* "while I was in Arkadelphia with Col. Bashom' s horses, I went down to the spring to water the horses* The artillery was there cleaning a big cannon they called 'Old Tom'* Of course I went up to watch them* One of the men saw me and hollered, 'Stick his head in the cannon** It liked to scared me to death* I jumped on that race horse and run* 2* X reconed I would have been killed hut my uncle was there and saw me and stopped the horse* "Another time we went to a place and me and another colored hoy was talcing cars of the horses while our rasters eat dinner* I saw same water- melons in the garden with a paling fenee around it* I said if the other hoy would pull a paling off I would erawl through and get us a watermelon* He did tut the man who owned the place saw me just as I got the melon and whipped us and told us if we hollered he would kill us* We didn't holler and we never told Col* Bashom either* "After the war my maannie come back from Texas and took me over to Dover to live but my old boss told her if she would let him have me he would raise and educate me like his own children* When I got back the old boss already had a boy so I went to live with one of his sons* Be told me it was time for me to learn how to work* l&y boss was rough but he was good to me and taught me how to work* The old boss had five sons in the army and all was wounded except one* One of them was shot through. and through in the battle of Oak Hill* He get a furlough and come bads: and died* I left my white folks in 1869 and went to farming for myself up in Hartman bottom* I married when I was about seventeen years old* "They though1 a house near us was hainted* Nobody wanted to live in it so they went to see what the noise was* They found a pet coon with a piece of chain around his neck* The coon would run across the floor and drag the chain* "The children now are bad* Ho telling that will be in the next twenty or thirty years everything is so changed now* 217 218 "I learnt to slag the hysma bat aever sang in the choir* le sang •Dixie', 'John Broun'a Body Liee, eto#», •JftVita', 'Just Before the Battle, Mother', 'Old Black Joe*." 219 3m&.' 3Q913 Interviewer ___________ Mra# Beralce Bowden______________ Person interviewed Charlie Korris 122 Miller Street* Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 81 "Bora in slavery times? Thatfs me, I reckon* I was born October lf 1857 In Arkansas in Union County* Tom Murphy was old master's name* *Yes ma'am, I remember the first regiment left Arkansas^HMUt to Virginia# I member our white folks had ua packin* grab out in the woods cause they was spectin9 the Yankees* nI member when the first regiment started out* The music boat come to the landin* and played fYankee Doodle*f They carried all us ckillun out there • "After they fit they just come by from daylight till dark to eat* They was death on bread* My Mother end Susan Iftirphy, that was the old lady herself, cooked bread for em* "I stayed with the Murphys~-round on the plantation amongst em for five or six years after freedoms Andrew Horris, my fatherfs old master* was the first sheriff of Ouachita County* *My mother belonged to the Itnrphys and my father belonged to the Norrises and after freedom they never did go back together* "My mother told me that Susan Murphy would suckle me when my mother was out workin1 and then my mother would suckle her daughter* "I was raised up in the house you might say till I was a big nigger* Had plenty to eat* That's one thing they did do* I lived rigtit amongst a settlement of what they called free niggers cause they was treated so well* 2. "Sometimes Susan Murphy got after me and whipped me and old Harse Toot would tell me to run and not let her whip me* Ton see, I was worth #1,500 to hift and he thought a lot of us black kids* *01d man Tom tlirphy raised me up to a big nigger and never did whip ma but twice and that was cause I got drunk on tobacco and turned out his horse* "Yes ma9am* I voted till bout two or three years ago* Oh Lawd, the colored used to hold office down in the country • Ifve voted for white and black* "Some of the colored folks better off free and some not* Thatfs what I think but they don't** 220 30490 2if Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Etoma Oats (Mulatto) Age 90 or older Holly Grove, Ark. nI was born in St. Louis. My mother died when I was little. I never knowed no father. (He was probably a white man. ) Jack Oats raised me. Jim Oats at Helena was his son. He is still liv- ing. He come through here (Holly Grove) not long ago. I was raised on the Esque place. "I was fraid of my grandma. I wouldn't live with her. I know'd her. She was a big woman, big white eyes, big thick lips, and had 'Molly Glaspy hair,1 long straight soft hair. She was a African woman. She made my clothes. I was fraid of her. I never lived with her. My folks was all free folks. When my mother died my uncle took us - me and brother. He hired us out and we got stole. Gene Oglesby stole us and,brought us to Memphis to Joe Nivers. I recken he sold us then. Then they stood me up in the parlor and sold me to Jack Oats. They said I was 'good pluck.' Joe Nivers sold me to Jack Oats for #1,150.00 when I was four years old. My brother was name Milton Smith. I ain't seen him from that day till this. Joe Nivers kept him, I recken. I come here on a 'legal tender' - name of the boat I recken. I know that. I recken it was name of a boat. I got off and Thornton Walls, old colored man, toted me cross every mud hole we come to. He belong to Bud Walls' (white man at Holly Grove) daddy. When *e got home Jack Oats and all of em was there. 2* i£& WI slept on a pallet and lounge and took care of their children. I played round. Done bout as I pleased. They had a cook they called Aunt Joe - Joe Oats. We had plenty to eat and wear. They dressed me like one their children. We had good flannel clothes. When she washed her children she washed me too. When she combed their hair she combed mine too. She kept working with it till I had pretty hair. Some of her children died. It hurt me bad as it did them. All I done was play with em and see after em. Their names was Sam, John, Dixie, Sallie, Jim. I went in the hack to church; if she took the children, she took me. I was a good size girl when she died. The last word she spoke was to me; she said, 'Emma, take care of my children,' Dr. John Chester was her doctor. "Oats come here from North Alabama. Will Oats, Wyatt Oats> and Jack Oats - all brothers. "When mistress living we took a bath every Friday in a sawed-into barrel (wooden tub). The cook done our washing. We had clean fresh clothes. We had to dress up every few days. If we get dirty she say she would give us lashes. She never give me none, I never was sassy (saucy). That what most of em got 10 lashes, 25, 50 lashes for. "When I was bout grown I went to school a little bit to James A, Eerr here at Holly Grove. I was good and grown too. "I was settin* on the gate post - they had a picket fence. I seen some folks coming to our house. I run in the house and says, 'Miss Mai Liza, the Yankees coming here!' She told her hus- band to get in the bed. He says, »0h God, what she know bout 3. 223 Yankees?' Miss Mai Liza say, 'I don't know; she's one of em, I speck she knows em.f One of the officers come in and asked him what was the matter. He said he was sick. He had boils bout on him. He had a Masonic pin on his shirt. He showed it to the officer. He asked Lou and Becky and all the servants if he hadn't been bushwhacking. They all said, 'No. • He said he wanted some- thing to eat. They went to the well house and got him some milk. "They camped below the house. They went to their store house and brought more rations up there in a wagon. Lou cooked and she had help. She set a big table and they had the biggest dinner. They had more hams. They had 'Lincoln Coffee' there that day. It was a jolly day. They never et up there no more or bothered round our house no more. The officer had something on his bare arm he showed. He said, when he went to leave, 'Aunt Lou, you shall not be hurt. f "Mr. Oats had taken long before that day all his slaves to Texas, He took all but Wash Martin. They went in wagons and none of them ever come back, "Miss Callie Edwards was older than Miss Henrietta Jackson. They kept Wash Martin going through the bottoms nearly all time from their houses at Golden Hill to Indian Bay. They kept him from one place to the other to keep him out of the war. They hired him out to school Miss Henrietta, Miss Callie Edwards died then they give him to Miss Henrietta. "During the war Mrs. Keeps come up to our house. They heard a gun. She was jes visiting Mrs. Oats. Mrs. Keeps went home and the bushwhackers had killed him. He was dead. *•' 2m MI never seen no Ea Klux in my whole life. nI remember the stage eoach that run every two or three days from Helena to Clarendon. "I don't remember bout freedom. Dr. Green, Hall Green's daddy, told his colored folks they was free. They told our folks. I heard em talking bout it. I was kept quiet. It was done freedom, fore I knowed it. I stayed on and done like I been doin'. I stayed on and on. wlhen I was grown I come here to school and soon married. I washed and ironed and cooked all over Holly Grove. I was wait- ing on the table at the boarding house here at Holly Grove. Mr. Oats was talking bout naming the town. They had put the railroad through. I ask em why didn't they name the town Holly Grove. It was thick with holly trees. They named it that, and put it up on the side of the depot. That way I named the town. "My folks give me five acres of land and Julia Woolfolk give a blind woman on the place five acres. I didn't know what to do wid it. I didn't have no husband. I was young and foolish. I let it be. "My husband farmed. I raised my family, chopped and picked cotton and done other things along with that. I have worked all my life till way after my husband died. "My husband could jump up, knock heels together three times before he come down. He died May 12, 1909. He was 83 years old February 16, 1909. "I never voted. I never heard my husband say much bout voting. I know some colored folks sold their voting rights. Tbat was wrong. 5< me. "I lived at Baptist Bottoms two years. It lack to killed n Wyatt Oats and Miss Callie Edwards owned the husband of Emma Oats. She was married once and had two girls and two boys - one boy dead now. Emma lives at one of her daughters' homes. 525 30410 %m Interviews* Miss Irene Bobertson . i ¦ m m m n»m w ipap m,n ii mm m ¦"¦¦n pii gt * w.iip n m .'¦;. w.Cni" ¦'fnii mi y jwi m jwipiWi n Person interviewed^ Age 30 ? **° H« .Ml 'II IP 1 ¦»IP«W «i!i|ui.plf...... ii' 'Ji'-.t;1.'! ;Omi »"^f M-ji;1, >'.in, in.,ii..*'¦!.• »tfw £** Lscoe, Arkansas "Great-grandmother was part African, Indian, and Caucasian* She had two girls before slavery ended by her own master—Master Temple* He was also Caucasian (white)? She was cook and housemaid at his hose* He was a bachelor* Grandmotherfs name was Bachael and her sisterfs name was Silly* Before freedom Master Temple had another wife* By her he had one boy and two girls* He never had a Caucasian wife* In fact he was always a bachelor* Grandmother was a field hand and so was her sister, Gilly. "But after freedom grandmother married a Union soldier* His took-on name was George Washington Tomb* He was generally called Parson Tomb (preacher}* He met Grandmother Rachael in Arkansas* "When Master Temple died his nearest relative was Jim McNeilly* He made a will leaving everything he possessed to Master McNeilly* The estate had to be settled, so he brought the two sisters to Little Bock we think to ta sold* They rode horseback and walked and brought wagons with bedding and provisions to camp along the road* The blankets were frozen and stood alone* It was so cold* Grandmother was put up on the block to be auctioned off and freedom was declared! Aunt Gilly never got to the block* Grandmother married and was separated from her sister* "Whether the other three children were brought to Arkansas then I don't know but this I know that they went by the name McNeilly* 8. 227 They changed their names or it was done for them* They are all dead now and my own mother is the only one now living* Their names were John, Tom, and Netline. Mother says they were sold to Johnson, and went by that name too as much as McNeilly* They remained with Johnson till freedom, in Tennessee . "My mother1 s name is Sarah• "They seem to think they were treated good till Master Temple died. They nearly froze coming to Arkansas to be soldo *I heard this told over and over so many, many times before grandmother died. Seemed it was the greatest event of her life. She told other smaller things I canft remember to tell with sense at all. Nothing so important as her master and own father1 s death and being sold. "Times are good, very good with me. Our African race is advancing with the times +n Interviewer1 s Comment Teacher in Biscoe school. Father was a graduate doctor of medicine and in about 1907, f08, f09 school director at Biscoe. o Interviewer______________Mrs* Bexnlee Bowden Person interviewed Jane Qllrer Route 4, near airport, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 81 "I'm certainly one of em, cause I was in the big house* When Miss Liza married they give sister to her and I stayed with Miss Netta* Her nane was Drunetta Rawls* That was in Mississippi* We come to Arkansas when I was amall* *I remember when they run us to Texas, and we stayed there till freedom come* I remember hear in1 em read the free papers* Mama died in Texas and they buried her the day they read the free papers* I know* I was out playln* and Miss Lucy, that was my young mistress, come cut and say, 'Jane, you go in and see your mother, she wants you*9 I was busy playin* and didnft want to go in and I member Miss Lucy say, 'Poor little fool digger don't know her mother's dyln'*' I went in then and said, vMama, is you dyinf?f She say, fNo, I ainft* I died when you was a baby«f You know, she meant she had died in sin* She was a Christian* *Me and Lucy played together all the time — round about the house and In the kitchen* Little Marse Henry, that was big old Marse Henry's son, he was a captain in the aray* We all called him Little Marse Henry* Old mistress was good to us* Us chlllun called her Miss Netta* Best woman I e?er seed* Me and Lucy gyowed up together* Looks like I can see just the way the house looked and how we used to go down to the big gate and play* I aits here and studies and wonders if I9d know that place today* That9© what I study bout* 111 uaed to hear em say we only stayed in Texas nine months and the white folks brought us back* "My uncle Simon Bawls * he took me after the war* Then I worked for Mrs* idkins* "1 went to school a little and learned to read print* The teacher triad to get me to write hat I wouldn't do it* And since then I have wished so ranch I had learned to write* Oh mercy! Old folks would tell me, 'Well, when you get up the road, you'll wish you had*1 I didn't know what they meant but I know now they meant when I got old* *X was married when I was young — I don't think I was fifteen* "Yes ma'em* I've worked hard* I've always lived in the country* "I can remember when the white folks refugeed us to Texas* Oh we did hate the Yankees* If I ever seed a Yankee I didn't know it but I heard the white folks talkin' bout em* *X used to hear em talk bout old Jeff Davis and Abe Lincoln* "Bradley County was where we lived fore we went to Texas and after- ward* Colonel Sd Hampton's plantation jined the Bawls plantation on the Arkansas Biver where it overflowed the land* I loved that better than any place I ever seed in my life* WI couldn't say what I think of the young folks now* They is different from what we was* Yes, Lord, they is different* Sometimes X think they is better and sometimes wuss* X just thanks the Lord that I'm here ~~ have come this far* "When X "bought this place from Mr. R* U. Knox he said* rRhen I'm in my grave you'll thank me that you took my advice and put your savings in a hosse.1 X do thank him* X been here thirty years and X get along* God bless you*w y Interviewer Mrs# Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Ivmzp Oaborne Houte 5, Box 158t Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 05 ••Know about slavery? Sho I do *— I was born in f52* Born in Arkansas? No mafm, born in Texas# *0h yes, indeed, I had a good master* Good to me, indeed* I was that high when the war started^ I member everything* Take me fro© now till dark to tell you everything I know bout slavery* *I put in three years and five months, choppin1 cotton and corn* I member the very day, on the 10th of Mayt old mistress blowed the conk and told us we was free* "Oh Lord, I had a good time* "I never was shipped* *Eu ELux used to run me* Run me clear from the plum orchard bout a mile from the house* Bun to my mistress at the big house* "Miss Aim had eight darkies and told her stepmother, fBonft you put your hand on em*1 She didnft either* "I went to school since 'mancipation in Hacitosh* Learned to read and tfrite* Was in the eighth grade when I left* Stood at the head of every class* They couldnft get me down* I done got old and forgot now* *I didnft know the difference between slavery and free, I never was whipped* *• 231 nDid I ever vote? You know I voted, old as I am. AinH voted in over forty years. I ainft nobody. Ify wifefs eighty. Ifve had her forty years* Cose I voted the Republican ticket. Yoa never seed a colored person a Democrat in your life* "In slavery days we killed seventy-five or eighty hogs every year« And I donft mean shoats, I mean hogs. I ainft lost my membranes." 30156 fiCk-ikn •-.,.•: .'£?*£ IV, ¦'li.' A Interviewer________ . Mrs. Bernlce , Person Interviewed ¦¦ ¦ ^ __ .;_'; J^-'&^me^L.- . ¦ ' 308 2. Slat Avenue, Pine HLutf, Arkansas Age 90 "Yes ma»m, I was livin1 in slavery days, I was homed in Arkansas Z reckon. X was horned within three miles of Camden hut X wasn't raised there. We moved to Saline County directly after peace was declared* *I don't know what year I was horn because you see I'm not educated but I was ninety the 27th of this last past May. Yes aa'm, I'm a old bond- age woman. Z can say what a heap of em can't say — I can tell the truth bout it. I believe in the truth* X was brought up to tell the truth. I*m no young girl. "My old master was Adkison Billingsly. My old mistress treated us just like her own children. She said we had feelin's and tastes* X visited her long after the war* Went there and stayed all night* "I member when they had the fight at Jenkins ferry. Old Steels had 30,000 and he come down to take Little Rock, Fine Bluff and others* Captain Webb with 1,500 Rebels was followin* him and when they got to Saline liver they had a battle* "The next Sunday my father carried all us children and some of the white folks to see the battle field* X member the dead was lyin' in graves, just one row after another and hadn't even been covered up* w0h yes, X can tell all bout that. Bother time there was four hundred fifty colored and five white Yankee soldiers come and ask my father 2* o% ? *» if old mistress treated us right* We told em we had good owners* I never was so scared in my life* Them colored soldiers was so tall and so black and had red eyes* Oh yes mafm, they had on the blue uniforms* Oh, we sure was fraid of em — you know them eyes* "They said, fNow uncle, we want you to tell the truth, does she feed you well?* My ma did all the cookin1 and we had good living I tole my daughter we fared ten thousand times better than now* "I come up in the way of obedience* Any time I wanted to go, had to go to old mistress and she say, 'DonH let the sun go down on you*1 And when we come home the sun was in the trees* If you seed the sun was go in9 down on you, you run* "I ainft goin* tell nothin' but the truth* Truth better to live with and better to die with* "Some of the folks said they never seed a biscuit from Christmas to Christmas but we had em every day* Never seed no sodie till peace was 1 clared — used saleratus* "In my comin* up it was Whigs and Democrats* Never heard of no Republicans till after the war* Ifve seed a man get upon that platform and wipe the sweat from his brow. Ifve seed em get to fightin1 too* That was done at our white folks house — arguinf politics* ttI never did go to school* I married right after the war you know* $hat you talkin1 bout — beinf married and goinf to school? I was house- keeping Standin* right in my own light and didn't know it*11 Interviewer Mrs. Bernlce Bowden Person Interviewed Annie Page ______ 412& Fallen Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 86 "I was born 1852, they tell me, on the fifteenth of March• I was workinf a good while ffore surrender• "Bill Jimmerson was my old master* He was a captain In Manna- duke fs army* Come home on thirty days furlough once and he and Daniel Cajsaack got Into some kind of a argument fbout seme whisky and Daniel Cammack stabbed him with a penknife• Stabbed him three times* Be was black as tar when they brought him home* The blood had done settled* Oh Lawd, that was a time* "My eyes been go in1 blind •bout six years till I got so I canft excern (discern) anythlngo "Old miss used to box me over the head mightily and the colored folks used to hit me over the head till seem like I could hear a bell for two or three days. Niggers ainft got no sense. Put fem in authority and they gits so uppity* "My brother brought me here and left me here with a colored woman named Rachael Ross. And oh Lawd, she was hard on me* Never had to do in slavery times what I had to do then* "But the devil got her and all her chlllun now I reckon. They tell me when death struck her, they asked if the Lawd called her, and they say she just turned over and over in the bed like a worn in hot ashes.* ?i",'isx:*sf ""V '"v^^r "%-i9?*j 30111 Interviewer ". ¦ ' - Mrs* Barnlca Beraon i3^e*viewfr3 •'• - ¦'.,/'V:v'\^iS^fp^', ..-.• , v;'' - .. -' 400 Block West Pullen, Pine Bluff^ Arkansas Age 85 "Yes'm I 'member the war, I never knowed wky they called it the Civil War thougju *I was horn in Union County, Arkansas, •bout a mile from Bear Creek, in 1852* That's what my old mistress tole me the morning we was sot free* nMy mistress was a Democrat, Old master waa a captain in Marmaduke's army* *I used to hope (help) spin the thread to make the soldiers' clothes* Old mistress card for me* lacy Jimmerson — the the onliest mistress I ever had* She wanted to send us away to Texas but old master say it want no use* Cause if the Yankees won, they have to bring us back, so we didn't go, "Bid they whip us? Why Z bet I can show you scars now* Old Miss whip me when she feel like fightinf ? Her granddaughter, Mary Jane, tried to learn me my ABC's out of the old Blue Back Spellera We'd be out on the seesaw, but old Hiss didn't know what we do in1* Law, she pull our hair* Directly she see us and say 'What you doin'? Bring that book here!1 •One day old master come home on a thirty-day furlough* He was awful hot-headed and he got into a argument with Daniel Carmack *• 2m and old Daniel stobbed him right in the heart* Fore he die he say to bury him by the side of the road so he earn see the niggers goin' to work* *I never seen no Ku SXux hat I heard of fem frectly after the war* *Vae blind* I jest can see enough to get around* The Self are gives me eight dollars a month* "Hy mother died soon after the war ended and after that I was jest knocked over the head* I went to Camblin and worked for Mrs* Peters* Then I runned away and married my first husband Mike Samson* I been married twice and had two children but they all dead now* "Law, I jest scared of these young ones as I can be* I donft have no dealias with *em** ion ?OI£LOHE SJBJ^CTS Name of interviewer _______ Mrs» Bernice Bowden_________ , .....» mil I. 11 ¦ i mmfmmmm* *ijp wijiwi mmiwi:ijl|J £ Mr-W}l, $ \1-IAV ¦^¦*v*!t4mTT*t il n} ¦ } " " " ' ' ' '" Sub j ect________________ Apparitions Story - Information (If not enough space on this page, add page) *I told fbout old master1 a death* Mama had done sent me out to feed the chickens soon of a morning* "Here was the smokehouse and there was a turkey in a coop* And when I throwed it the feed I heard something sounded just like you was dragginf a brush over leaves* It come around the corner of the smoke- house and look like a tall woman. It kept oa goin* toward the house till it got to the hickory nut tree and still sound like draggin1 a brush* When it got to the hickory nut tree it changed and look like a man. I looked and I said, fItfs old master*f And the next day he got killed* I run to the house and told mama, fLook at that man.* She said, fShut your mouth, you donft see no man*1 Old miss heard and said, flho do you a9pose it could bet1 But mama wouldnft let me talk. *But I know it was a sign that old master was goin1 to die** This information given by Annie Page ( ) Place of residence 41S& Pullen Street* Piny Bluff. Arkansas Occupation None Age 86 *>*] o*i FOLKLORE 3QBJECTS Kama of interviewer .:,M&m^~^--. iM im i ip mm*mmmmm Subject .,,..,.-,--. t..... ......,. :jBdi^$a§SMMm Story - Information (If not enough apace on this page, add page) •I was horn with a caul over my face# Old miss said it hung from the top of my head half way to ay waist* "She kept it and when I got big enough she said* fNow thatfs your veil, you play with it«* "But I lost it out in the orehard one day* "They said it would keep you from seeinf hafnts#" This information given by___________Annie Page _____ ( ) Place of residenee 412Jr Sullen Street. Pine Bluffy Arkansas Occupation_______________ Hone Age 86 FOLKLORE SQP3J1OTS Name of interviewer _______Mrs, Beralce Bowdea Subject _______ , Birthmarks Story"- Information {If not enough space on this page, add page) •William Jimmeraon* s wife had a daughter was born blind, and she said it was her husband9 s fault# She was delicate, you know, and one afternoon she was layinf down and I was sittin* there fan-* nin! her with a peafowl fan* Her husband was layin* there too and I guess I must a nodded and let the fan drop down in his face* He jumped up and pressed his thumbs on my eyes till they was all bloodshot and when he let loose I fell down on the floor* Hiss Phenie said, f0h, William, donft do that.* I can reiaember it just as well* "My eyes like to went out and do you know, when her baby was born it was blind* It1 a eyes just looked like two balls of blood* It died though, just lived *bout two weeks.*, Hhis information given by Annie Page ( ) Place of residence______418| W* Rillea* Fine Bluff* Arkansas______ Occupation Hone* blind __________. Age 86 239 240 Interviewer Mrs* Be mice Bowden Person interviewed Fannie Barker 1908 W* Sixth Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 90? *Yes, honey, this is old Fannie* Ifse just a poor old nigger waitin1 for Jesus to come and take me to Heaven* *I was just a young strip of a girl when the war come* Dr* M# C* Comer was my owner* His wife was Elizabeth Comer* I said Mars© and Mistis in them days and when old mistress called me I went runnin9 like a turkey* They called her Miss Betsy* Yes Lord, I was in slavery days. Master and mistress was bossinf me then* We all come under the rules* We lived in Konticello — right in the city of Monticello. * All I can tell you is just what I remember* I seed the Yankees* I remember a whole host of fem come to our house and wanted something to eat* They got it tool They cooked it them selves and then they burned every- thing they could get their hands on* They said plenty to me* They said so much I donft know what they said* I know one thing they said I belonged to the Yankees* Yes Lord, they wanted me to tell fem if I was free* I told 'era I was free indeed and that I belonged to Miss Betsy* I didnH know what else to say* We had plenty to eat, plenty of hog meat and buttermilk and oombread* Yes mafm — don't talk about that now* * Don't tell me fbout old Jeff Davis — he oughta been killed* Abraham Lincoln thought what was right was right and what was wrong was wrong* Abraham was a great man cause he was the President* When the rebels ceded from the Union he made ,em fight the North* Abraham Lincoln studied that 2# O 1 | and he had it all in his mind* He wasn't no fighter but he carried his own and the North give fem the devil* Grant was a good man too* They tried to kill him but he was just wrapped up in silver and gold* "I remember when the stars fell* Yes, honeyt I know I was ironinf and it got so dark I had to light the lamp* Yes, I didS "ItYs been a long time and my mind9s not so good now but I remember old Comer put us through^ Good-bye and God bless yout* l\\ ^30712 242 Interviewer^______Samuel S. Taylor Sub3 eot - g*yslave*y Story* Birth* Parentst Master. *I was horn in South Carolina, ^terloe* injltewrence^Gounty, | &OMJ\tMA* ^# in l86l> April 5th. laterloo is a little town in South Carolina* I believe that fellow shot the first gun of the war when I was born* I knew then I was going to be free* Of course that is just a lie* I made that up* Anyway I was born in l86l. *Colonel Rice was our master* He was in the war too* The name parker came in by intermarriage* you see. My mother belonged to Rice. She could have been a Simms before she married* U$ father*s name was Edmund Parker. He belonged to the Rices also* That was his master; Colonel Rice and him were boys together. He went down there to Charleston* South Carolina to build breast works* Wiile down there * he slipped off and broughtj hundred men away from Charles- ton back to Lawrence County where the mn was that owned them. He was a business man* f&ther was* Brought fem all through the swamps. They were slaves and he brought fem all back home* They all followed his advice. *My motherfs name was Rowena Parker after she married. Person Interviewed_______J.M. Parker>______________(dark brown) Address 1002 Ringo Street. Little Rock* Arkansas______________ Occupation Formerly a carpenter _____________Age 76. 2. 243 "Colonel &ice was a pretty fair man— a pretty good fellow* He was a colonel in the war and stood pretty high. Bound to be that way by him being a colonel. Seemed like him and my father had about the same number of kids* He thought there was nobody like my mother < He never whipped the slaves himself but his pver\eer would some- times jump on them* The Rice family was very good to our people* The men being gone they were left in the hands of the 4ELstress. She never touched anybody. She never had no reason to* Pateroles Matter oilers didnft bother us but we were in that country* firing the war* most of the men that amounted to anything were in the war and the patrolers didnH bother you much. The overseer didn't have so much power over me than. That pretty well left the colored people to come up without being abused during the war* The white folks was forced to go to tfye war. They drafted them just like they do now* TheyM shoot a po* white man if he didnft come. Breeding *My master didnft force men and women to marry* He didn*t put fem together just to get more slave. Some times other people would have women and men just for that purpose. But there wasn't much of it in my country* House, Stock, Parents1 Occupations *Gur house was a frame building, boxed in with one*by-twelve like we have here in the country. That was a good house with re- gular flooring, tongue and groove. We was raised up in a good 244 house* Old Colonel Rice had to protect his standing. He had good stock* My father was a carriage man* Jto had to keep those horses clean and they always looked good* fhat carriage had to shine too*. Colonel Rice was a high stepper* Hefd take his handkerchief and rub it over the horses haifc to see if they were really clean* He would always find fem clean though when the old man got through with theau He would drive fine stock* Had some fine horses* Gould- nft trust fear with just anybody<>_ *Vfy mother was cook* She helped lirs. Rice take care of the kids* and cooked around the house. She took care of her kids* too* *The house we was born and bred in was built for a carriage house, but somehow or fnother they give it to us to live in* Ky mother being a cook, she got what she wanted. That was a good house too* It was sealed* It had good floors* It had two rooms. It had about three windows and good doors to each room* *We had just common furniture. Niggers didnH have much then. My father was a good mechanic though and he would make anything he wanted* We didnft have much, just common things. But all my people were mechanics, harness ^ke^rB^_^^.fimals^ra.f— they eould make any- thing* Young Sam Parker could make any kind of shoe* He made shoes for the white folks; Young Jacob was a blacksmith; he made horse- shoes and anything else out of iron* He may still be living* In fact, he made anything he could get his hands on* My young uncles on my motherfs side, I donft know much about them, because they were all mechanics. % grandfather on my motherfs side could make baskets — any kind—could make baskets that would hold water. 4, 245 *My father had thirteen children. Three of them are living now* My brother lives here in the city. He was born during the war and his mother was supposed to be free when he was born. Right After the War *Thatfs what my mother told me, I can remember a long ways back myself. After the war* it wasn*t long before they began to open up schools* They used to run school three or four months a year. Both white and colored in the country had about three or four months. That is all they had. There weren't so very many white folks that took an interest in educatioa during slave time. Colored people got just about as much as they did right after the war. fhat time we went to school we went the whole day. We would come home and work in the evening like. We had pretty fair teachers. All white then at first. They didnft have no colored till afterwards. If they did* they had so few, 1 never heard of them. *The first teacher I had was Katie Whitefold (white). That was in Waterloo. Kiss Richardson was our next teacher. She was white too. We went to school two terms under white women. After that we began to gpt teachers from Columbia* South Carolina, where the normal school was. **The white teachers who taught us were people who had been raised right around Waterloo. We ne^er had no Horthen teachers as I knows of. Out first colored teacher was Murry Evans. He was a preacher. He was one of our leading preachers too» 246 After him our colored women began to come in and stand examination wasn't so hard at that time, but they made a good showing. There were good scholars. *I went to school too much* I went to school at Philander Smith College some, toe* I went a good piece in school* Come pretty near finishing the English course(high school)• I finished Good Brown fs *Grrammer of Grammars*. Profeser Backensto (the spelling is A -------------- the interviewer*&) sent away and got it and sold it to us* W& was his students. He was a white man from the North and a good scholar* We got in those grammars and got the same lessons they give him when he was in school — nine pages a lesson and we had to repeat that lesson three times* Ihen my mother died, I was off in the normal school* "Right after the war, my parents farmed* He followed his trade. That always gave us something to eat you know* When we fanned, we sharecropped — a third and a fourth—that is, we got a third of the cotton and a fourth of the corn. Potatoes and things like that went free* All women got an acre free. My mother always got an acre and S she worked it good too* Ihe always had her bale of cotton* And if she didn't have a bale, she laid it next to the white folksf and made it out. They knew it and they didnH care* She stood well with the white people* Helped all of fem raise their children, and they all liked that* *I went along with my father whenever he had a big job and needed help* I got to be as good a carpenter as he was. (?) «• 24? *I married out here* About eighty-five. People were emigrating to this countryo There was a boom to emigrating then. Emigrating was a little dangerous when a man was trying to get hands. Whit© folks would lay traps and kill men that were taking away their hands— they would kill white just as quick as they would black. I started out under a white man — I canH remember his name. He turned me over to Madden» a colored mn who was raised in Waterloo, lie came from there to Greenwood South Carolina where everything was straight. After that we had nothing to do but get on the train and keep coming* We was with our agent then and we had no more trouble after that. *I got off at Brinkley over at Minor Gregoryfs farm. He needed hands then and was glad to gpt us. He is dead now. I stayed in Brinkley the space of about a year. Then he gave us transportation to Little Rock. The train came from Memphis, and we struck out for Little Rock. I married after I come to little Rock. I forget what year. But any- way my wife is dead and gone and all the children. So Ifm single now. Opinions of the Present *I think times are about dead now* Things ought to get better. I believe things are going to get better for all of us. People have got to think more. People have got to get together more. War doesnH always make thing better. It didnft after the Givil War. And it didn't after the World War. The young people are all right in their way. It would just take another war to learn fem a lesson. Support Q *I canft do any work now. I get a little help from the wel- fare . It doesn't come regular. I need a check right now. 1 think itfs due now. But they haven't sent it out yet. That ia* I haven't got it* *Ifm a Christian. All ^y family were Kethodists. I belong to Wesley. 48 30330 249 interviewer Mary p» Budging_____________ Person Interviewed Jacty Parker___________Aged 77 Home 618 Wade Street, Hot Springs, irk»______ For location of Wade Street, see interview with Emma Sanderson* As the interviewer walked down Silver Street a saddle colored girl cents out on a porch for a loaft of wood* "I beg your pardon," she began, pausing^ "can you tell me where I will find Emma Sanderson ?» nI sure can." The girl left the porch and eame out to the street* "1*11 walk down with you and show you* That way it*11 he easier* Kind of cold, ain't it ?» "It surely is," this from the interviewer* "Isn't it too cold for you, can't you just tell me? I think I can find it*" The girl had expected to he on&y on the porch and didn't have a coat* "Fo, ma*am. It's all right. Now we1re far enough for you to see* You see those two houses jam up against one and 'tother ? Well Miz Parker lives in the one this way. I goes down to look after her most every day. That's where you'll find her*-----Mo ma'am—»twaren»t no bother." 3tt&y Parker Hudgins 250 The gate sagged slightly at the house "this way* of the "two jam up against one and 'tother.* A large slab from an oak log in the front yard near a woodpile bore mute evidence of many an ax blow* (stove wood is generally split in the rural South ---one end of thewstickw resting against the ground, the other atop a small log*) I3p a couple of rickety steps the interviewer climbed. She knocked three times. When she was badeto enter she opened the do©r to find an old women sitting near a wood stove combing her long , white hair. Mrs* Parker was expecting the visit* A few days before the interviewer had had a visit from a couple of colored woiTien who had n neard tell how you is investigating the old people*---been trying to get on old age pension for a long time---glad you come to get us on*------NO ? Oh* I see you is the Townsend woman.n ( An explanation of her true capacity was almost impossible for the interviewer) Mrs. Parker, however, seemed to comprehend the idea perfectly. She expected nothing sa*e the ehance to tell her story* Her joy at the gift of a quarter ( the amount the interviewer set aside from her salery for each interviewee) was pitiful. Svidently it had been a long time since she had possessed a similar sum to spend exactly as she pleased* Judy Parker Mary D* Hudgins 251 *I don't rightly know how old I is* Ily mother used to tell me that I was a little baby, six months old when our master, Joe Potts was his name got ready to clear out of Florida* You see he had heard tell of the war scare* So he started drifting out of the way* Bet it didn't take him long after he made itp his mind. He was a right decided man, Mister Joe was* How did we like him ? Well* he was always good to us* He was well thought of* Seemed to be a pretty clever igan, Mr. Joe did." ( *Clever" in plantation language like *smartn refers more to muscular than mental activity. They might almost be used as synonpas for "hard working" on the labor level*) So He* Joe got re dy to go to Texas* Law* Miss, I don't rightly know whether he had a family or not* Never heard my Mother say* inyhow he come through Arkansas intending to drift on out into Texas* But when he got near the border 'fcwix't and between Arkansas and Texas he stopped. The talk about war had about settled down* So he stopped. He stopped near where the big bridge is. You know where Little River County is don't you? He stopped and he sta ted to work, started to make a crop* 'dourse I can't remember none about that* Just what my Mother told me. But I remembers him from later* Jud$ Parker Hedging" He went at it the good way. Settled down and tried t@ I open up a home* They put in a crop and got along pretty good* Mtae passed and the war talk started floating again* That time Ibe didn't pay mueh attention and it got him* It was on a Sanday [morning when he went' away. I never knew -whether they made him go lor not. But I kind of think they must of. ©ause he -wouldn't have wed off from Florida if he had wanted to go t© war* He took my daddy with him^ Ma'am-----did he take him to Ifight or to wait on him------Bon't know ma'am, but I sort of think he took him to wait on him* B|ct he didn't bring him back. My daddy got killed in the war* Ko ma'am* I don't rightly know how he got killed. Never heard nobody say. I was just a little girl----nobody [bothered to tell me much* Yes, that we did* We stayed on on the farm and we made crop------the old folks did* Mr* Joe, when he went off, said "Now lyou stay on here, you make a crop and you use all you need* Then you I Pit up the rest and save for me* He was a right at, Wichita* It went out of season and they built a boat called the Arkansas* I cooked on it* Captain Griffin was the master of it* When it went out of service,. Captain Hewcome from the War Department transferred me over to the Mississippi River on the Arthur Hider {?)* My headquarters were in Greenville, Mississippi* It was far from home, so after nine months I quit and came home (Little Rock)* Captain Van Frank give me a position on a^edge^oat and the people were so bad on there I wouldn't stay* I came away* I wouldn't stay 'mongst 'em« Religion *I want you to know that I am a Christian and I want you to know I ainft got no compromise with nobody on God's word* I ain't got but one way and that is the way Jesus said: 8. Come unto me all ye that axe heavy laden, and I will give yoa rest* He that believeth on me ahall be saved. Yoa all fix anything anyway yoa want* I ainft bothered fbout you* *Sfy people were good Christian people?* I 30791 284 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed John Patterson* Helena» Arkansas Age 74 "I was born near Padusah, Kentucky* Mother was never sold* She belong to Master Arthur Patterson* Mother was what folks called black folks* I never seen a father to know* I never heard mother say a thing about my father if I had one* He never was no use to me nor her neither• Mother brought me here in time of the Civil War* I was four years old* We come here to be kept from the Yankee soldiers* We was sent with some of the Pattersons* At the end of the war mother cooked for Nick Righbor (?) and hi a wife here in Horth Helena* He was a farmer but his son is a ear, eye* nose specialist o nI farmed, cleaned house and yards for these Helena people* I was janitor at the Episcopal church in Helena sixteen years and four months* They paid me forty-five dollars a month* "Yes ma'am* I have heard about the Ku KLux* Heard talk but never seen one* "X never been in jail* I never been drunk* Folks in Helena will tell you John Patterson can be trusted* "I saved up one thousand dollars* just let it slip* The present times are hard* Times are hard* I get ten dollars and comtaissary helps* I got one in family* *I think mother said she was treated very good in slavery* She didnft tell me much about it* 2. 285 "I own a home* It come through a will from my aunt* My uncle was a drayman here in Helena and a close liver* I want to hold to it if I can* "If youfd ask me what all ainft took place since I been here I could come nigh telling you* We had colored officers here* Austin Barrer was sheriff* Half of the officers was colored at one time* John Jones was police* No, they wasn't friends of mine* I seen these levies built* One was here in 1897* It was rebuilt then* "It seems to me the country is going down* When they put in the Stock Law people had to sell so much stock* Milch cows sold for six dollars a head* People that want and need stock have no place to raise it* People are not as industrious as they was and they accumolate more it seems to me« lie used to make our living at home. I think that is the best way* "I voted a Republican ticket years ago* I don't believe in women voting* The Lord don't believe in that* I belong to the Baptist church* "Young folks don't act on education principles* Folks used to fight with fist* Now one shoots the other down* Times are not improving morally* ?olks don't even think it is wrong to take things; that is stealing* They drink up all the money they can get* I donft see no colored folks ever save a dollar* They did long time ago* Times worse in some ways* "I forgot our plough songs: 'I wonder where my darling is*f 'Nigger makes de cotton and de White man gets the money*' Everybody used to sing* We worked from sun to sun; we courted and was happy. People not happy now* They are craving now* About four o'clock we all start up singing* Sing till dark*" 3084G o Interviewer Samuel S« Taylor Person interviewed Sarah Jane Patterson 2611 Orange Street, North Little Book, Arkansas Age 90 *I was born in Bartow County, Georgia, January 17, 1848* You can go there and look in that Bible over there and you will find it all written down* My mama kept a record of all our ages* Her old mistress kept the record and gave it to my mother after freedom* Parents "My parents were Joe Patterson and Mary Adeline Patterson* My mother's name before she married was Mary Adeline Huff* My grandfather on my mother's side was named Huff* My mother's sisters were Mahala, and Sallie* Aad them's the onliest two I remember* She had two brothers but I don't remember their names* How Freedom Game *X was living in Bartow County in north Georgia when freedom came* I don't remember how the slaves found it out* I remember them saying, *Well, they's all free*' And that is all I remember* And I remember some one saying—asking a question, fYou got to say master?' And somebody answered aad said, 'Naw*f But they said it all the same* They said it for a long time* But they learned better though* Family WI have brother Willis, Lizzie, Mary, Maud, and myself* There was four sisters and one brother* I had just one child--a boy* 2. 28? He lived to be a grown man and raised a family* His wife had three children and all of them is gone* The father, the mother, and the children* I was a woman* I wasn't no man* I just had one child, but the Lord blessed me* I have three sisters and a brother dead* Master "My old master's name was John Patterson and my old mistress was named Lucy Patterson* She had a son named Bill and a son named Tommy and a son named Charles, and a boy named Bob, and a girl named Marion* We are so far apart they can't help me none* I know Bob's boys are dead because they got killed in a fight in Texas* Crippled in Slave Time nI been crippled all my life* We was on the lawn playing and the white boy had been to the pond to water the horses* He came back and said he was going to run over us* We all ran and climbed up on the top of a ten rail fence* The fence gave 'way and broke and fell down with us* I caught the load* They all fell on me* It knocked the knee out of place* They carried me to Stilesboro to Br# Jeffrey, a white doctor in slavery time* I don't know what he did, but he left me with my knee out of joint after he treated it* I can't work my toes and I have to walk with that stick* Soldiers "I was a tot when I seen the soldiers coming dressed in blue, and I run* They was very nice to the colored people, never beat 'em or nothin1* I was in Bartow County when they come through* They took a lot of things* but I can't remember exactly what it was* I 'tended to the children then—both the white and colored children, but mostly the white* 3. Good Masters "hfy old master, John Patterson, never beat up the women and men he bossed* Patrollers "I have heard people talk about the pateroles raising sand with the niggers* Some of the niggers would say they got whipped* I was small* I would hear fem say, fThe pateroles is out tonight*f Ku Klux KLan *I have seed the old Ku Klux* That was after freedom* They came f round to my old master where my mama stayed* They were just after whipping folks* Some of them they couldn't whip* Support "I used to get a little money from Mr* Dent long as he was living* I would go over there and he would give me a dollar or two* Since hefs been dead, his wife don't have much to give me* She gives me something to eat sometimes but she doesn't have any money now that her husband is dead* *I can't get up to the ?telfare* Crippled as I am, I can't walk up and down those stairs, and I can't git there nohow* I been try in* to git some one to take me up there* "Mr* Pratt helps me from time to time, but he ain't sent me nothin' now in a good while* He's right smart busy, but if I go to him, I spect he'll stir up somethin' for me* Travels "I wouldn't never a left Bartow County, but the white people made out that this was a rich country and you could make so much out here* *• 289 and we moved out here* We was young then* We came out on the train* It was a long time back but it was too far to come on a wagon* I donft remember just how long ago it was*. Occupation "I used to quilt until my fingers got too stiff* I got some patterns in there now if you want to see them** Interviewer*s Comment The old lady took me in the house and showed me about a dozen quilts, beautifully patterned and made* She had also same unfinished tops* She says that she does not have much of a sale for them now because the ttquality of folks* who liked such things well enough to buy them wis just about gone*" She is crippled and unable to walk with facility* She has a great deal of difficulty in getting off and on her porch* Still she does not impress one as feeble so much as just disabled in one or two particulars* She has a crippled knee, and both of her hands are peculiarly stiff in the finger joints, one more so than the other* If it were not for the dis- abilities, as old as she is, I believe that she could give a good account of herself* I didnft have the heart to tell the old lady that her Bible record is not what she thinks it is* It is not the old original record which her mistress possessed* Neither is it the copy of the record of her mistress which her mother kept* From questioning, I gather that the old mistress dictated the original record to some one connected with her mother, 5, might have written it out herself on a sheet of paper* From time to tiaef as new deaths and births occurred, scraps of paper containing them were added to the first paper, and as the papers got worn, blurred, and dog- eared, they were copied—probably not without errors* Time came when the grandchildren up in the grades and with semi-modern ideas copied the scrape into the family Bible * By that time aging and blurring of the original lead pencil notes,together with recopying,had invalidated the record till it is no longer altogether reliable* The births recorded in the Bible are as follows and in the exact order given below: Mary Patterson 10-11-1866 Harris Donesson 3-13- 78 Lilley Donesson 7-21- 85 Pearly Donesson 3-29- 92 Silvay Williams 8-29- 84 Beney Williams 11-24- 85 Millia A. Williams 12-30- 88 Joe Patterson 10- 3- 77 H# Patterson 7-29- 79 Maria B. Patterson 11-19- 81 Jennie Patterson 12-24- 84 Alex Patterson 7- 5- 86 James Patterson 6-20- 90 Janie Patterson 1-27- 60 Amanda Patterson 1-28- 63 James Rafield Walker 8-11- 99 Cornelius Walker 7-21-1902 Willie Walker 11-20- 03 Slias Walker 7-21- 11 Emmet Brown 1-23- 2Z Leon Harris 12-13- 21 The following marriages were given: May lee Brown 2-26-1926 James Walker Brown 2-21- 35 Jennie Walker 6-20- 15 Lillie Jean Walker 12- 6- 36 The name of Sarah Jane Patterson is not in the list* The list itself is not chronological» It is written in ink but in the stiff cramped hand Oil'} 7 6+ to be expected of a school child not yat thoroughly familiar with the pen* The eye fixes on the name of Janle Patterson* 1~27-1860, It does not seem probable that this is correct If It Is meant to be Sarah Jane4 Sarah Jane could giTe no help except to answer questions about the manner in which the record was made* These considerations led mo to set the record aside in my own mind so far as Sarah Jane Patterson's age is concerned and to take her word* She has a very olear conception of the change from slavery to freedom* Her memories are blurred and indistinct, but she recollects that this matter was during slavery times and that during freedom* It seems that she had the care of the smaller children during slavery tim»~*at the time she saw the soldiers marching through* This was net during the time of freedom, because As distinguished clearly the Ku ELux time* She would have to be at least eighty to have eared for children* Her tenacious memory of ninety may have some foundation, therefore* Moreover where writing is done in load pencil and hurriedly, six is often made to look like four and a part of eight may became blurred till it looks like a zero* That would account for 1848 being transcribed as I860* There would be nothing unusual, however, in a Sarah Jane and a Jane* I neglected to cover that point in a question* 291 Interviewer_________^_______Samuel S* Taylor________________ Person interviewed Solomon P« Pattlllo tearifr4»owir)~^^ 1502 Hart in Street t Little Rock* Arkansas Age 76 Occupation Formerly farmer, teacher, and email dealer—-now blind "I was born November 1862• I was three years old at the time of the surrender* I was born right here in Arkansas — right down here in Tulip* Dallas County| Arkansas* I have never been out of the state but twice # Refugee ing "My daddy carried me out once when they took him to Texas during the war to keep the Tanks from setting him free* "Then I went out once long after slavery to get a load of sand* On the way backf my boat nearly sank* Those are the only two times I ever left the state* Parents "My fatherfs name was Thomas Staith, but the Pattillos bought him and he took the name of Pattillo* I don't know how much he sold for* That was the only time he was ever sold* I believe that my father was born in North Carolina* It seems like to me I recollect that is where he said he was born* "My mother was born in Virginia* I donft know how she got here unless she was sold like my father was* I don't know her name before she got married* Yes, I do; her name was Fannie Stall th, I believe* 8» /w^** Houses •We lived in old log cabins. We had bedsteads nailed to the wall* Then we had them old fashioned cordboard springs. They had ropes made into springs. That was a high class bed. People who had those cord springs felt themselves. They made good sleeping. My father had one. Ropes were woven back and forth across the bed fraxae. *We had those old spinning wheels. Three cuts was a dayfs wo;ik. A cut was so many threads. It was quite a day to make them* They had hanka toe. The threads were all linked together. *Bfy mother was a spinner. My father was a farmer. Both of them worked for their master, *~ old Massa, they called him, or M&ssa, Mass Tom, Mass John or Massta. War Recollections *I remember during the war when I was in Texas with a family of Moody*s how old Mistiss had me packing rocks out of the yard in a basket and cleaning the yard. I didnft know it then, but my daddy told me later that that was when I was in Texasf -~ during the war. I remember that I used to work in my shirt tail. "The soldiers used to come in the house somewhere and take anything they could get or wanted to take. Pateroles *When I was a boy they had a song, *Run, Nigger, run| The Pateroles will get you.* They would run you in and I have been told they would whip you. If you overstayed your time when your master had let you go out, he would notify the pateroles and they would hunt you up and turn you over to him* 3. Church Meetings "Way long then, my father and mother used to say that man doesn't serve the Lord —• the true and living God and let it be known* A bunch of them got together and resolved to serve Him any way* First they sang in a whisper, fCoxne ye that love the Lord.1 Finally they got bold and began to sing in tones that could be heard everywhere, *0h for a thousand tongues to sing my Great Redeemer* s praise*f After the War *After the war my father farmed *~ made share crops* I remember once how aam one took his horse and left an old tired horse in the stable* She looked like a nag* When she got rested up she was better than the one that was took* "His first farm was down here in Dallas County* He made a share crop with his former master, Pattillo* He never had no trouble with hisu Ku Klux "I heard a good deal of talk about the Ku Klux iO.an, but I don't know anything much about it* They never bothered my father and mother* ifly father was given the name of being an obedient servant —* among the best help they had* '•My father farmed all his life* He died at the age of seventy-two in Tulip, near the year 1885, just before Cleveland's inauguration* He died of typhoid ^eiaaonia* My mother was ninety-six years old when she died in 19090 Little Rock *I came to Little Hock in 1894* I came up here to teach in Fourche Bam* Then I moved here* I taught my first school in this comity at Cat©* 2VI ** 295 I quit teaching because my salary aaa ao poor aad thaa I went into ths butcher's business, aad in the wood business. I famed all the while, •I taught school for twenty-one years. I always was a successful teaeher* I did ay beat* If yea contract to do a job for ton dollars* do as much as though yea wars gat ting a hundred* That will always halp you to gat a better job* •I have farmed all ay life in connection with my teaching. X went into other businesses like X said a moment ago* X waa a caretaker at the Haven of Beat Cemetery for sometime* ¦I waa postmaster from 1904 to 1911 at Sweat Home* At oaa tins X was employed oa the Halted States Census* "I gat a little blind peaaioa aow. X have ao other means of support* lass of lyes ¦The doctor says X lost my eyesight oa account ef cataracts* I had an operation aad whan X earns home, X get te stirring around aad It caused me to have a hemorrhage of the eye* You see X couldn't stay at the hospital because it was costing me #3 a day and X didn't have it* They had to talcs one eye eleaa oat* Nothing oaa be done for them, bat somehow X feel that the lord's going to let me see again. That*a the way X feel about it* "X have lived here in this world this long and never had a fight in ny life* X have never been mistreated by a white man in my life* X always knew my place. Some fellows gst mistreated because they get out of their place. "I was told I couldn't stay in Bent on because that was a white e oaa* a teem* X went there aad they treated aw white* X tried te stay «• 290 with a colored family way out* They were seared to take mo* Z had gone there to attend to some business* Then I vent to the sheriff and he told me that if they were seared to have me etay at their home, I could stay at the hotel and put my horse in the livery stable • Z stayed oat in the wagon yard* Sat X was invited into the hotel* They took care of ay horse and fed it and they brought me my meals* She next morning, they eleaned and curried and hitched my horse for me* "I have voted all my life* Z never had any trouble about it* "The Ku TJLux never bothered me* Mobody else ever did* If we live so that everybody will respect us, the better class will always try to help us*" W* .30907 29? Interviewer Miss Irene Bobertson Per sou interviewed Carry Alien Patton# Forrest City, Arkansas Age 71 *I was born in Shelby County, Tennessee* My parents was Tillie Watts and Pierce Allen* He come from Louisiana reckly (directly) after the surrender* ify mother come from Virginia. She was sold in Virginia and brought to middle Tennessee close to Murfreesboro and then brought to Mem- phis and sold* She was dark and my father was too* They was living close to Wilmarf Arkansas when the yellow fever was so bad. I don't remember it* Heard them talk about it* "I heard my mother say how Mr* Jake Watts saved his money from the Yankees. They had a great big rock flat on both sides* They put on the joints of big meat to weight it down when they salted it down in a barrel* They didn't unjoint the meat and in the joint is where it started to spoil* Well, he put his silver and gold in a pot. It was a big round pot and was smaller around the top* He dug a hole after midnight* He and his two boys James and Dock put the money in this hole in the back yard* They covered the pot with the big flat rock and put dirt on that and next morning they planted a good big cedar tree over the rock, money and all* *01d Master Jake died during the War and their house was burned but James lived in one of the cabins in the yard* Dock went to the War* My mother said when they left, that tree was standing* "My mother run off* She thought she would go cook for the men in the camps but before she got to the camps a wagon overtook her and they stole her* z. They brought her to Memphis and sold her on a block• fhey guarded her* She xi&v&t did know who they was nor what become of them* fhey kept her in the wagon on the outskirts of the city nearly a month* One man always stayed to watch her* She was scared to death of both of them* One of the men kept a jug of whiskey in the wagon and drunk it but he never would get dead drunk so she could slip off* "Hr* Johnson bought her and when the surrender come on, Master Johnson took his family and went to Texas* She begged him to take her to nurse but he said if it wasn't freedom he would send her back to Master James Watts and he would let her go back then* He give her some money but she nmrmr went back* She was afraid to start walking and before her money give clear out she met up with my father and he talked her out of going back* •She had a baby pretty soon* It was by them men that stole her* He was light* He died when he got nearly grown* I recollect him good* I was born close to Memphis* The boy died of dysentery. *1Ihen ay mother was sold in Virginia she was carried in a wagon to the block and thought aha was going to market* She n&reT seen her folks no more* fhey let them go along to market sometimes and set in the wagon* She had a little pair of gloves she wore when she was sold her grandma had knit for her* fhey was white, had half thumb and no fingers* When she died I put them in her coffin* She had twins born dead besides me* They was born close to Wilmar, Arkansas. "We faimed all my life in Arkansas and Mississippi* I married in Mississippi and we come back here before Joe died* I live out here and in Memphis* My son is a janitor at the Sellers Brothers Store in Memphis* My daughter cooks about here in town and I keep her children* I rather farm if I was able* 3* *I think young folks, both colors, shuns work* Times is running away with itself* Folks is living too fast* They ride too fast and drinks and do all kinds of meanness* "My father was a mighty poor hand at talking* He said he was sold in a gang shipped to Memphis from New Orleans* Master Allen bought him* He was a boy* X don't know how big* He cleaned fish—sealed them. He butchered and in a few months Mr. Allen set him free* It was surrender when he was sold but Mr* Allen didnft know it or else he meant to keep him on a few years. When he got loose he started farming and farmed till he died* He farmed in Tennessee, Mississippi, and Arkansas* He owned a plaee but a drouth come along* He got in debt and white folks took it* "I married in Mississippi* My husband immigrated from South Carolina* He was Joe Patton* I washed and Ironed and farmed* 2 rather farm now if I was able* *I nBYBT got no gov'ment help* I ain't posing it* It is a fine thing* I was in Tennessee when it earn on* They said I*d have to stay here six months* I never do stay** 299 1/ 30335 mm-- Interviewer Mrs* Annie L. LaCotts ... V* " v> Person interviewed Harriett McFarlin Payne DeWitt, Arkansas Age 85 "Aunt Harriett, were you born in Slavery time?" "Yes, mam* I was big enough to remember well, us com- ing back from Texas after we refugeed there when the fighting of the war was so bad at St* Charles* We stayed in Texas till the surrender, then we all come back in lots of wagons* I was sick but they put me on a little bed and me and all the little cMllun rode in a * Jersey* that one of the old Negro mammies drove, along behind the wagons, and our young master, Colonel Bob Chaney rode a great big black horse* Oh. he nice-looking on dat horse 1 Every once and awhile he'd ride back to the last wagon to see if everything was allright* I remember how scared us chillun was when we crossed the Red river* Aunt Mandy said, 'We erossin' you old Red river today, but we not going to cross you any more, cause we are going home now, back to Arkansas* * That day when we stopped to cook our dinner I picked up a lot little blackjack acorns and when my mammy saw them she said, 'Throw them things down, chile* They'll make you wormy*' £1 cried because I thought they were chinquapins* ^ I begged my daddy to less go back to Texas, but he said, '»©! No I We going with our white folks*' My mama and daddy belonged to Col* Jesse Chaney, much of a gentleman, and his wife Miss Sallie was the best mistress anybody ever had. She was a Christian* I can hear her praying yetl She wouldn't let one of her slaves hit a tap on Sunday* They must rest and go to church* They had preaching at the cabin of some one ©f the slaves, and in the Summertime sometimes they had it out in the shade under the trees* Yes, and the slaves on each plantation had their own church. They didn't go galavanting over the neigh- borhood or country like niggers do now* Col* Ghaney had lots and lots of slaves and all their houses were in a row, all one- room cabins* Everything happened in that one room,—birth, sickness, death and everything, but in them days niggers kept their houses clean and their door yards too. These houses where they lived was called 'the ^quarters'* I used to love to walk down by that row of houses* It looked like a town and late of an evening as you'd go by the doors you could smell meat a fry- ing, coffee making and good things cooking* We were fed good and had plenty clothes to keep us dry and warm* "Along about time for de surrender, Col* Jesse, our mas- ter, took siek and died with some kind of head trouble* Then Col, Bob, our young master, took care of his mama and the slaves* All the grown folks went to the field to work and the little chillun would be left at a big room called the nursing home* All us little ones would be nursed and fed by an old mammy, Aunt Mandy* She was too old to go to the field, you know. We wouldn't see our mammy and daddy from early in the morning till night when their work was done, then they'd go by Aunt Mandy's and get their chillun and go home till work time in the morning. -— "Some of the slaves were house negroes* They didn't go *• 302 to work in the fields, they each one had their own job around the house, barn, orchard, milk house, and things like that* "When washday come, Lord, the pretty white clothes I It would take three or four women a washing all day. "When two of de slaves wanted to get married, they'd dress up nice as they could and go up to the big house and the master would marry them, They'd stand up before him and he'd read out of a book called the 'discipline1 and say, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, all thy strength, with all thy might and thy neighbor as thyself,f Then he'd say they were man and wife and tell them to live right and be hon- est and kind to each other. All the slaves would be there too, seeing the 'wedden,' "Our Miss Sallie was the sweetest best thing in the world! She was so good and kind to everybody and she loved her slaves, too, I can remember when Uncle Tony died how she cried i Uncle Tony Wadd wa3 Miss Sallie's favorite servant. He stayed in a little house in the yard and made fires for her, brought in wood and water and just waited on the house. He was a little black man and white-headed as cotton, when he died. Miss Sallie told the niggers when they come to take him to the grave yard, to let her know when they got him in his coffin, and when they sent and told her she come out with all the little white chillun, her little grandchillun, to see Uncle Tony. She just cried and stood for a long time looking at him, then she said, 'Tony, you have been a good and faithful servant,' Then the Negro men walk- ed and carried him to the graveyard out in a big grove in de 4. 303 field. Every plantation had its own graveyard and buried its own folks,and slaves right on the place* "If all slaves had belonged to white folks like ours, there wouldn't been any freedom wanted." :iMM!8 304 •%> Interviewer Miss Irene Roberts on Person interviewed_____John Payne Brinkley, Ark, e 74 *I was born in Georgia, close to Bowles Spring, in Franklin County, My mama's master was Reverend David Payne. He was a Baptist preacher* My mama said my father was Mon- roe Glassby, Ee was a youngster on a neighboring plantation. He was white. His father was a landowner. I think she said it was 70 miles east of Atlanta where they went to trade. They went to town two or three times a year. It took about a week to go and come. "Prom what Mama said they didn't know it was freedom,for a long time. They worked on I know till that crop was made and gathered. Somebody sent word to the master, Rev. David, he better turn them slaves loose. Some of the»Jiands heard the message. That was the first they knowed it was freedom. My mama said she seen soldiers and heard fighting. She had heard that if the Yankees won the war all the slaves be free. She set to studyin' what she would do. She didn't know what to do. So when she heard it she asked if she had to be free. She told Rev. David she wanted to stay like she had been staying. After I was up a good size boy we went to Banks County. She done house work and field work too and I done farm work. All kinds and from sun-up till dark every day. Sometimes I get in so late I have to make a torch light to see how to put the feed in 2. 305 :r;':'i the troughs. We had plenty litard ¦- pine knots - they was rich to burn. "I used to vote but I quit since I come to Arkansas. I come in 1902. I paid my own way and wrote hack for my family. I paid their way too. I got one little grandaughter, 20 years old. She is off trying to make her way through col- lege. My wife had a stroke and she eanft do much no more. I got a piece of a house. It need repairs. I can't hardly pay my taxes. I can't work much. I got two cows and six little pigs. I got eighty acres land* I worked fourteen years for John Gazolla and that is when I made enough to buy my place. I am in debt but I am still working. Seems like one old man can*t make much.* 30458 30d Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed_____Larkin Payne Age 85 Brinkley, Ark. "I was born in North Carolina, I don't recall my moster's name. My parents was Sarah Hadyn and John Payne. They had seven children. None of them was sold. My pa was sold* He had three sons in the Civil War. None of em was killed. One was in the war four years, the others a good portion of two years. They was helpers. ^Grandma bought grandpa's, freedom. My great grandma was an Indian woman. My mother was dark brown. My father was toler- able light. When I was small child they come in and tell bout people being sold. I heard a whole lot about it that way. It was great grandma Hadyn that was the Indian. My folks worked in the field or anywhere as well as I recollect. "When freedom come on my folks moved to East Tennessee. I don't know whether they got good treatment or not. They was free- dom loving folks. The Ku Klux never bothered us at home, I heard a lot of em. They was pretty hot further south, I had two brothers scared pretty bad* They went wid some white men to South Carolina and drove hogs. The white men come back in bug- gies or on the train - left them to walk back. The Ku Klux got after them. They had a hard time getting home. I heard the Ku Klux was bad down in Alabama. They had settled down fore I went to Alabama, I owned a home in Alabama. I took stock for it. '*• 307 Sold the stock and come to Arkansas, I had seven children. We raised three, "When my folks was set free they never got nothing. The mountain folks raised corn and made whiskey. They made red corn cob molasses; it was good. They put lye in the whiskey; it would kill you. They raised hogs plenty. My folks raised hogs and corn. They didn't make no whiskey, I seen em make it and sell it too, "I heard folks say they re the r be under the home men over- seers than Northern overseers. They was kinder to em it seem like, I was jes beginnin' to go to the field when freedom come on, I helped pile brush to be burned before freedom, I farmed when 1 was a boy; pulled fodder and bundled it, I shucked corn, slopped pigs, milked, plowed a mule over them rocks, thinned out corn, I worked twenty days in East Tennessee on the section, I cut and haul wood all winter, "My parents both died in Arkansas. We come here to get to a fine farmin' country. We did like it fine, I'm still here, "I have voted, I vote if I'm needed. The white folks coun- try and they been runnin' it. I don't want no enemies. They been good to me, I got no egercation much, I sorter follows bout vo- ting We look to the white folks to look after our welfare. "I get #8,00 and commodities. I work all I can git to do." 30696 308 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Asa 67 Marvell and Paleatiae, ArkaniaT "I waa born close to Macon, Georgia* Mama* a old mistress, Miss Mari (Maree) Bath Woods, brung her there from fifteen miles outer Atlanta* "After emancipation Hiss Mari Beth's husband got killed* A horse kicked him to death* It shyed at something and it run in front of the horse* He held the horse so it couldn't run* It kicked the foot board clean off, kicked him in the stomach* His boy crawled out of the buggy* That's the way we knowed how it happened* She didn't hurt the boy* His name waa Benjamin Woods* "Pa went to war with his master and he never come back to mama* She never heard from him after freedom* He got captured and get to be a soldier and went 'way off* She didn't never know if he got killed or lest his way back home* "Mama cooked and kept up the house* Hiss Mari Beth kept a boarding house in Macon till way after I was a big girl* I stood on a box and washed dishes and dried them for mama* "Mr* Ben waa grown when we cone to Arkansas* He got his ma to go to Kentucky with him and I heard about Arkansas* Me and mama come to Palestine* We come in a crowd* A man give us tickets and we come by our lone selves till we got to Tennessee* A big crowd come from Byersburg, Tennessee* Ma got to talking and found out we was headed fo* the same place in Arkan- sas* * 309 •Ma talked a whole heap at tines more 'an others (tlaes) about slavery times* Her matter didn't take on over her much when he found oat she was a barren woman* The old man Crumpton give her to his youngest daughter, Hiss Marl Beth* She always had to do all kinds of work and house turns* "After mama's slavery husband didn't come back and she was living in Macon, she fell in love with another man and I was a picked-up baby* Mama said Miss Marl Beth lost faith in her when I was born but she needed her and kept her on* Said seem like she thought she was too old to start up when she never had children when her papa owned her* They didn't like me* She said she could trust mama but she didn't know my stock* He was a black man* Mama was black as I is* ••Miss Marl Beth had a round double table* The top table turned with the victuals on it* I knocked flies three times a day over that table* *I never had a store-bought dress in my life till mama bought me one at Madison* Arkansas* I wanted a pure white dress* She said if we made a good crop she was going to give me a dress* ill the dresses I ever had was made out of Hiss Mari Bethfs dresses bat X mrBT had a pure white one* I never had one bought for me till I was nearly grown* I was so proud of it* When I would go and ccxae back* I would pull it off and put it away* I wore it one simmer white and the next summer I blued It and had a new dress* I had a white dress nearly every year till I got too old to dress up gay now* I got a white bonnet and apron Z wears right now* m mama said Master Crumpton bought up babies to raise* She was taken away from her folks so soon she never heard of them* Aunt Hat raised her up in Atlanta and out on his place* He had a place in town but kept thai on a place in the country* He had a drove of them* Be hired them out* s. 310 He hired mama once to a doctor 9 Dr* Willbanks* Mama said old master thought she would learn how to have children from him the reason he sent her there so much* When they had big to-dos old master sent mama over there* She never seen no money till about freedom* She loved to get hired out to be off from him* They all had young babies about but her# He was cross and her husband was cross* She had pleasure hired out# She said he didn't whoop much* He stamped his foot* They left right now* *I hafe three girls living; one here (Palestine), one at Marvell, and one in St* Louis* My youngest girl teaches music at a big colored school* She sends me my money and I lives with these girls* I been up there and I sure donYt aim to live in no city old as I is* It's too dangerous slow as I got to be and so much racket I never slept a night I was there* I was there a month* She brung me home and I didn't go back* *I cooked and washed and ironed and worked in the field* I do sone work yet* I helps out where I em* "The times is better I think from accounts I hear* This generation all living too fast er lives* They donft never be still a minute** 30355 pine Bluff District FOLKLORE SUBJECTS Name of Interviewer Martin. & Barker ^w, 811 Subject Ex-Slaves - Slavery Times Story • Information (if n 31? '•We had flower gardens» We had mint, rasemary, tansy, sage, mullen, catnip, horseradish, artichokes, hoarhound~~»all good home remedies* ttI never knowed when we moved to that faim* I was so small* I heard Miss Agnes Brown say I was a baby when they moved to Boldan depot, not fur from Clinton, Mississippi* *When I left Miss Agnes I want to seme folks m^ own color on another farm joining to their farm* Of course I took my baby* I took Anna and I been living with Anna ever since* What Ifd do now without her* (Anna is an Indian and very proud of being half Indian*) My husband done dead* *I get eight dollars welfare help* And I do get some eosmoditiea* Anna does all right but she got hit on the shoulder and about lost use ef her arm* One of the railroad hands up here got mad and hit her* I had doctors* They done it a little good* Itfs been hurt three years or more now* *I wisht I knowd where to find a bed of mullen* Boil it down to a syrup and add some molasses, boil that down* It makes a good syrup for ' coughs and colds• *I never went to white folks* church none hardly* Kiss Agjaes sent me along with her cook to my own color fs church* ^y husband sure was good to me* We neve? had but one fight * Jfeithar one whooped* "fhis young generation is going backward* They tired of training* Ehey don't want no advice* Ihey donft want to work out no more* They donft know what they want* I think folks is trifling than they was when I come on* !Ehe times is all right and some of the people* Ifm talking about mine and yof color both** / 30057 $ Interviewer_______________Mrs* Jeraiee Bowdon_____________ Person interviewed Dinah Barry 1800 Ohio Street, Has Bluff, .Arkansas A» 78 •Yes ma'am, Z lived in slavery tines* They Brought me from Alabama* a baby, right here to this plaee where Z em at, Mr* Sterling Coekril* *Z don*t know zaekly when 1 was born but Z member bout ths slave times* Tea ma'am, Z do* After Z growed up some, Z member the overseer*** Z do* Z ean remember Mr. Burns, Z member when he took the hands to Texas* left the chillun and the old folka here* •Oh Lord, this was a big plantation* Had bout four or five hundred head of niggers. ¦My mother dons the milkin* and the weaviaV After free times, Z wove me a dress* My mother fixed it for me and Z wove it* They'd knit stock- in's too* But new they wear silk* Don't keep my legs warm* *I member when they fit here in Fine Bluff* Z member when 'merma* juke* sent word he was goin' to take breakfast with Clayton that mornin' and they just fit* Z ean remember that was 'Mannajuke.' Zt certainly was 'Marmajuke.' She Babels tried to carry me away but the wagon was so full I didn't get in and Z was glad they didn't* My mother was runnia* from the Babels and she hid under the eotehouse* After the battle was over she come back here to the plantation* "Z had three brothers and three sisters went to Texas and Z know Z didn't know em when they come back* 2. •I «emt»r when they fit here a bum atoll fell rigjit in the yard* It was feig around as this stovepipe and was all fall of chains and things* "After free time my folks stayed right here and worked on the shares* I was the baby chile and never done no work till I married when Z was fif- teen* •After the War I sent to school to white teachers from the North* I never went to nethin9 hat them* I went till I was in the fifth grade* "Hy daddy learned me to spell 'lady* and 'baker' and 'shady' fore I went to school* I learned all my ABC's too* I got out of the first reader the second day* I could just read it right on through* I could spell and just stand at the head of the class till the teacher sent me to the foot all the time* < "My daddy was his old mistress9 pet* He used to carry her to school f all the time and I guess that's where he got his learnim'* "After I was married I worked in the field* Rolled logs, cut brush, chopped and picked cotton* "I member when they had that 'Bachelor' (Brooks-Baxter) War up here at Little Book* "After my chillun died, I never went to the field no more* I just stayed round mongst the white folks nussin'* All the chillun I nussed is married and grown now* "All this younger generation—white and eelored~*I don't know what's gwine come of em* The poet says: 319 ?Kach gwine a different way And all the downward road.f " 320 Interviewer Mrs* Bernice Bowden Person interviewed Dinah Perry 1002 Indiana, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 78 flI*se bawn in Alabama and brought here to Arkansas a baby* I couldnft tell what year I was bawn * cause I was a balay* A chile can*t tell what year he -was basra 'less they tells him and they sure didn't tell me* tfWhen Ifd wake up in the mawnin* ay mother would be gone to the field* ^Sorae things I can remember good but you know old folks didn*t *low chillim to stand around when they was talkin* in dem days* They had to go play* They had to be mighty particular or theyfd get a whipping nChillun was better in them days f cause the old folks was strict on teaai Chillun is raisin* theirselves today* * I taaamber one song they used to sing *Wefll land over shore We* 11 land over shore* And we111 live forever more** They called it a ]$rmn* They*d sing it in church, then they*d all get to shoutin* # "Superstitions? Well* I seen a engineer go in* to work the other day and a black cat run in front of him, and he went back * cause he said he would have a wreck with his train if he didn*t* So you see, the white folks believes in things like that too* "I never was any hand to play any games *cept *Chick# Chick** Tou*d ketch *hold a hands and x^g Up* Bfcd one outside was the hawk and some inside was the hen and chickens* The old mother hen would say 2« 321 *Chick-a-:ma# chick-a-aaf cranky* orow# Went to the well to wash ay toe| When I cozae back sqt chicken was gone* What t&ne is it# old witch?* One chicken was s'pesed to get out and then the hawk would try to ketch him* "We was more 'ligious than the chilltm nowadays* We used to play preaehia* and baptisin1 # We*d put fem down in the water and souse fem and weYd shout just like the old folk* Tee maTaa*n 30818 Interviewer _________Mrs, Beratce Bowden Person interviewed Hfred ffelwrs 1518 Bell Street, Fine Bluff, Arkansas Age 78 *I was born seven miles from Camden. *I was fleven months old when they carried us to Texas* first thing I remember I was in Texas* "Lucius Grima was old master* He's been dead a long time* His wife died fbout two years after the Civil War and he died twenty~five years after* "I fiaember durin* of the war he buried his stuff—silverware and stuff—and he never took it up* Ind after he died Ms brother* s son lived in California, and he coiae back and dug it up* nThs Yankees burned up four hundred bales of cotton and taken the meat and two cribs of corn* *I heerd feiii talk fbout the Ku JQux but I never did see 1ssu *Hy mother said old Mars Lucius was good to his folks* She said he first bought her and then she worried so fbout nay father, he paid twenty-five hundred dollars for him* "Biggest part of my life I fanaad, and then I done carpenter work* "I "been blind four years* !Ehe doctor says itfs cataracts* "I think the younger generation goinf to cause another war* They ainft studyin1 nothin* but pleasure*1* 30617 323 _059r> Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Louise Pettis, Brinkley, Arkansas Age 59 "Vy mama was born at Aiken, South Carolina* She ms Frances Roten* I was born at Elba, South Carolina, forty miles belong Augusta, Georgia© Ity papa was born at Maoon, Georgia* Both xqy parents -was slaves* He fanned and was a Baptist preacher* Mejna was a cook* "Mama was owned by some of the Willis* There Y/as three| Mike, Bill, and Logie Willis, all brothers, and she lived with theza all but -who earned her I donft know* She never was sold* Papa wasn*t either* Mama lived at Aiken till papa Harried her* She belong to some of the Willis* They married after freedom* She had three husbands and fifteen children* "lafexia had a soldier husband* He took her to James Island* She runned off from him* Got back across the sea to Charleston to Aunt Anette*s* She was mame^s sister* Maine, sent back to Aiken and they got her back to her folks* Aunt Anette had been sold to folks at Charleston* n Grandma was Rachel Willis* She suckled some of the Willis children* Mama suckled me and Hike Willis together* His maiiia got sick and r$r mama took him and raised him* She got well but their names have left me* When we got sick the Willis women would send a hamper basket full of provisions, some cooked and some to be cooked* I used to sweep their yards* They was white sand and not a sprig of grass nor a weed in there* ftMama and papa was both slaveiy niggers and they spoke mighty well of their ormers* *? 335 "papa said in slavery times about two nights in a week they would have a dance* He would slip off and go* Sometimes he would get a pass* He was a figger caller till he 'fessed religion* One time the pattyrollers oome in* They said, tAU got passes tonight#* When they had about danced down ay daddy got a shovelful of live coals and run about scattering it on the floor* All the niggers run out and he was gone too* It was a dark night* A crowd went up the road and here come the pattyrollers* One run into grapevines across the road and tumbled off his horse* The niggers took to the woods then* pa tole us about how he studied up a way to get himself and several others outer showing their passes that night* Master never found that out on him* "During the War they sent a lot of the meat to feed the soldiers on and kept the skins and sides* They tole them, if the Yankees ask them if they had enough to eat say, tgee how greasy and slick I is** They greased their legs and arms to make them shine and look fat* The dust made the chaps look rusty* v nPapa saved his young mistress * life* His master was gone to war* He had promised with others to take care of her* The Yankees come and didn*t find meat* It was buried* They couldn't find much* They got mad and burned the house* Fa was a boy* He run up there and begged folks not to burn the housej they promised to take care of eveiything* Papa begged to let him get his mistress and three-day-old baty* They cursed him but he run in and got her and the baby* The house fell in before they got out of the yard* He took her to the quarters* Papa was overstrained carrying a log and limped as long as he lived* "Pa was hired out and they was goner whoop him and he run off and get back to the master* Ma nor pa was never sold!* 5. 836 "We had a reason to cctme out here to Arkansas* A woman had a -white husband and a black one too* The black husband told the white husband not come about there no ware* He ecae on* The blaek man killed the white man at his door* They lynched six or seven niggers* They sure did kill him* That dissatisfied all the niggers* That took place in Barnwell Ctfuaty, South Carolina* Three train loads of us left* There was fifteen in our family* We was doing well* ISy pa had cattle and money* They stopped the train befo' and behind us—the train we was on* Put the Arkansas white man in Augusta Jail* They stopped us all there* We got to cone cm* We was headed for Pine Bluff* We got down there f bout Altheimer and they was living in tents* Pa said he wasn't goiner tent* he didn't run away from South Carolina and he'd go straight back* Mr* Aydelott got eight families on track at Rob Roy to come to Biscoe* We got a house here* Pa was old and they would listen at what he said* He made a speech at Rob Roy and told them let's come to Biscoe* Eleven families come* He had two hundred or three hundred dollars then in his pocket to rattle* He could get more* He grieved for South Carolina* so he went back and took us but ma wanted to come back* They stayed back there a year or tiro* We made a crap* Pa was the oldest boss in his crowd* We all come back* There was more room out here and so many of us* nThe schools was better out there* I went to Miss Soofield's College* All the teachers but three was colored* There was eight or ten colored teachers* It was at Aiken* South Carolina* Miss Criley was our sewing mistress* Miss Criley was white and Miss Scofield was too* I didn't have to pay* Rich folks in the North run the school* Ho white children went there* I think the teachers was sent there* 4# *-? "I taught school out here at Blaokbon and More and in Prairie County about* I got tired of it* I married and settled down* "We owns w i*ame here* Ifr husband was a railroad man* We lives by the hardest* nI donft know what becoming of the young generation* They shuns the field work* Times is faster than I ever seen them* I liked the way times was before that last war (World War)* Reckon when will they get back like that?11 887 30807 338 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed______Henry C« Pettus. Marianna, Arkansas Age 80 "I was born in Wilkes County, near Washington! Georgia. My motherfs owners was Dr* Palmer and Sarah Palmer* They had three boys; Stevef George, and Johnie* They lived in Washington and the farm I lived on was five miles southeast of town* It was fifty miles from Augusta, Georgia* He had another farm on the Augusta Road* He had a white man overseer* His name was Tom Newsom and his nephew, Jiramie Newsom, helped* He was pretty smooth most of the time* He got rough sometimes* Tomfs wife was named Susie Newsom* "Dick Gilbert had a place over back of ours* They sent things to the still at Dick Gilbert1 s* Sent peaches and apples and surplus corn. The still was across the hill from Dr* Palmer1 s farm* He didnft seem to drink much but the boys did* All three did* Dr* Palmer died in 1861* People kept brandy and whiskey in a closet and some had fancy bottles they kept, one brandy, one whiskey, on their mantel* Some owners passed drinks around like on Sunday morning* Dr. Palmer didn't do that but it was done on some places before the Civil War* It wasn't against the law to make spirits for their own use* That is the way it was made* Meal and flour was made the same way then* "Mother lived in Dr* Palmer's office in Warren County. It was a very nice log house and had a fence to make the front on the road and the back enclosed like* Inside the fence was a tanyard and house at some distance *• 339 and a very nice log house where Mr* Hudson lived* Br* Palmer and Mr* Hudson had that place together* The shoemaker lived in Washington in Dr. Palmer1 s back yard# He had his office and home all in the same* Mr* Anthony made all the shoes for Dr* Palmer1 s slaves and for white folks in town* He made fine nice shoes* He was considered a high class shoemaker* "Mother was a field hand* She wasn't real black* My father never did do much* He was a sort of a foreman* He rode around* He was lighter than I am* He was old man Pettusf son* Old man Pettus had a great big farm- land! landl landl Wiley and Milton Roberts had farms between Br* Palmer and old man Pettus1 farm* Mother originally belong to old man Pettus* He give Miss Sarah Palmer her place on the Augusta Road and his son the place on which his own home was* They was his white children* He had two* Mother /\ was h4ired by her young mistress, Dr, Palmer1 s wife, Miss Sarah* Father si/ rode around, upheld by the old man Pettus* He never worked hard* I donft know if old man Pettus raised grandma or not; he never grandpa* He was a Terral*> He died when I was small* Grandma was a field hand* He was the only colored man on the place allowed to have a dog* He was Dr. Palmerfs stock man* They raised their own stock; sheep, goats, cows, hogs, mulest and horses* "None of us was ever sold that I know of* Mother had three boys and three girls* One sister died in infancy* One sister was married and remained in Georgia* Two of my brothers and one sister come to Arkansas* Mother brought us boys to a new country* Father got shot and died from the womb* He was a captain in the war# He was shot accidentally* Some of them was drinking and pranking with the guns* We lived on at Dr* Palmer1 s place till 1866* That was our first year in Arkansas* That was nearly two years* We never was abused. My early life was very favorable* 3* mo *ThB quarters was houses built on each side of the road* Some set off in the field* They must have had stock law* We had pastures* The houses was joining the pasture* Mr* Pope had a sawmill on his place* The saw run perpendicularly up and down* He had a grist mill there too* I like to go to mill* It was dangerous for young boys* Mr. Popefs farm joined us on one side* Oxen was used as team for heavy loads* Such a contrast in less than a century as trucks are in use now* I learned about oxen* They didnft go fast fceptinf when they ran away* They would run at the sight of wat§r in hot weather* They was dangerous if they saw the river and had to go down a steep bank, load or no load the way they went* If it was shallow they would wade but if it was deep they would swim unless the load was heavy enough to pull them down* Oxen was interesting to me always* nChildren didn't stay in town like they do now* They was left to think more for themselves* They hardly ever got to go to town* *We raised a pet pig* Nearly every year we raised a pet pig* When mother would be out that pig would get my supper in spite of all I could do* The pig was nearly as large as I was* I couldn't do anything* We had a watermelon patch and sometimes sold Dr* Palmer melons* He let us have a melon patch and a cotton patch our own to work* Mother worked in moonlight and at odd times* They give that to her extra* We helped her work it* They give old people potato patches and let the children have goober rows* Land was plentiful* Dr. Palmer wasnft stingy with his slaves—very liberal* He was a man willing to live and let live so far as I can know of him* •During the Civil War things was quiet like where I was* The soldiers didnft come through till after the war was over* T3ien the Union soldiers took Washington* They come there after the surrender* *• 341 Freedom *The Union soldiers came in a gang out from Washington all over the surrounding country, scouting about, and notified all the black folks of freedom* My folks made arrangements to stay on* Two colored men went through the country getting folks to move to southwest Georgia but before mother decided to move anywhere along came two men and they had a helper* Mr, Allen* It was Mr* William H« Wood and Mr* Peters over here on Cat Island. They worked from Washington, Georgia* We consented to leave and come to Arkansas* We started and went to Bametts station to Augusta, t# Atlanta* There was so many tracks out of order, bridges been burnt* We crossed the river at Chattanooga, then to Nashville, then to Johnsonville* We took a boat to Cairo, then to Memphis, then on to some landing out here* Well, I never heard* We went to the Woods1 place and made a crop here in Arkansas in 1866* I worked with John I# Foreman till 1870 and went back to the Woodsf farm till 1880. Then I went to the Bush place {now McCullough farm)* I farmed all along through life till the last twelve years*, I started preaching in 1875* I preach yet occasionally* I preached here thirty-six years in the Marianna Baptist church* I quit last year* My health broke down* •Chills was my worst worry in these swamps* We made fine crops* In 1875 yellow fever come on# Black folks didnft have yellow fever at first bat they later come to have it* Some died of it* White folks had died in piles* It was hard times for same reason then* It was hard to get some- thing to eat* We couldnft get nothing from Memphis* Arrangements was made to get supplies from St* Louis to Little Rock and we could go get them and send boats out here* 5- 342 *In 1875 was the tightest, hardest time in all my life* A chew of tobacco cost ten cents* In 1894-f95 hard times struck me again* Cotton was four and five cents a pound* flour three dollars a barrel, and meat four and five cents a pound* We raised so much of our meat that didnft make much difference* Money was so scarce* *Ku KLux—I never was in the midst of them* They was pretty bad in Georgia and in northeast part of this county* They was bad so I heard* They sent for troops at Helena to settle things up at about Marion, Arkansas now* I heard more of the Eu Klux in Georgia than I heard after to come here* And as time went on and law was organized the Kii Klux disbanded everywhere* "Traveling conditions was bad when we came to Arkansas* We rode in box cars, shabby passenger coaches* The boats was the best riding* As I told you we went way around on account of burnt out and torn up bridges* The South looked shabby* "I haven*t voted since 19E7 except I voted in favor of the Cotton Control Saturday before last* "Times has come up to a most deplorable condition* Craving exists* Ungratefulness* People want more than they can make* Some donft work hard and some won't work at all* I donft know how to improve conditions except by work except economical living* Some would work if they could* Some can work but wonft* Some do work hard* I believe in bread by the sweat of the brow, and all work* *The slaves didnft expect anything* They didnft expect war* It was going on a while before my parents heard of it* I was a little boy* They didn't know what it was for except their freedom* 6. They didnft know what freedom was* They couldnft read* They never seen a newspaper like I take the Commercial Appeal now* I went to school a little in Arkansas* My father being old man P&ttus1 son as he was may have been given something by Miss Sarah or Dr# Palmer or by his white son, but the old man was dead and I doubt that* Father was killed and mother left* Mother knew she had a home on Dr* Palmers land as long as she needed one but she left to do better* In some ways we have done better but it was hard to live in these bottoms* It is a fine country now* WI own eigjity acres of land and this house* (Good house and furnished well,) We made six bales of cotton last year*. My son lives hers and his wife—a Chicago reared imlatto, a cook* He runs my farm* I live very well** 34y 30487 344 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Dolly Phillips» Clarendon, Arkansas Age 67 "I ainft no ex-slave. I am 67 years old. I was born out here on the Hullins place* My mother's master was Mr* Hicks and Miss Bmma Hicks* "Hy mother named Diana and my father Henry Mull ins* I never saw my grand fathers and I seen one grandma I remembers* My mother had ten children* My father said he never owned nuthinf in his life but six horses* Ihen they was freed they got off to their selves and started farming* See they belong to different folks* My father1 s* master was a captain of a mixed regiment* They was in the war four years* I heard fem say they went to Galvestonf Texas* The Yankees was after fem* But I don't know how it was* *I heard fem say they put their heads under big black pot to pray* They say sing easy, pray easy* I forgot whut all she say. •I lives wid my daughter* I gets commodities from the Welfare some. The young folks drinks a heap now* It look lack a waste of money to me*1 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person Interviewed Tony Piggy Age 75 Brinkley, Ark, "I was horn near Selma, Alabama, but I was raised in Miss- issippi , My grandpa was sold from South Carolina to Moster Alex- ander Piggy? He didnft talk plain but my papa didn!t nother* Moster Piggy bought a gang of black folks in South Carolina and brought em into the state of Alabama, My papa was mighty near full-blood African, I!ll tell you. Now ma was mixed. uI!m most too young to recollect the war. Right after the war we had small pox* My uncle died and there was seven children had em at one time. The bushwhackers come in and kicked us around - kicked my uncle around* We lived at Union Town, Alabama then, "Aunt Connie used to whip us. Mama had no time; she was a chambermaid (housewoman). The only thing I recollect bout slav- ery time to tell is Old Mistress pour out a bushell of penders (peanuts) on the grass to see us pick em up and set out eating em, When they went to town they would bring back things like cheese good to eat. We got some of what they had most generally. She wasnft so good; she whoop me with a cow whip, She!d make pull candy for us too, I got a right smart of raisin1 in a way but I growed up to be a wild young man, I been converted since then, "Well, one day pa come to our house and told mama, fWe free, don*t have to go to the house no more, git ready, we all goin* to 340 Mississippi. Moster Piggy goiner go. He gone* rent us twenty . acres and we goner take two cows and a mule.1 We was all happy to be free and goin1 off somewhere. Moster Piggy bought land in Mississippi and put families renters on it. Moster Piggy was rough on the grown folks but good to the children. The work didn't let up. We railly had more clearin' and fences to make. His place in Alabama was pore and that was new ground. "There was all toll nine children in my family. Ma was named Matty Piggy. Papa was "named Ezra Piggy. Moster Alexander Piggy's wife named Harriett. I knowed Ed, Charley, Bowls, Ells, and Liza. That's all I ever knowd. "I have done so many things. I run on a steamboat from Cairo to New Orleans - Kate Adams and May F. Carter. They called me a Rouster - that means a working man. I run on a boat from Newport to Memphis. Then I farmed, done track work on the rail- road, and farmed some more, "The young generation ain't got respect for old people and they tryin' to live without work. I ain't got no fault to find with the times if I was bout forty years younger than I is now I could work right ahead.0 #784 Inte rviewer________________Bernice Bowden________________________ Person interviewed _____Ella Pittman__________________________ ^ 2409 West Eleventh Street* Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age Q^ wTes mafm, I was horn in slavery days* I tell you I never had no ri&ne. :jy old master named me — Just called me 'Puss? and said I could name myself when I got hag enough* *ISy old master was named Mac Williams. But where I got free at was at Stricklands* Mac Williams1 daughter married a Strickland and she drawed me* She was tollahle good to me but her husband wafnt. "In slavery times I cleaned up the house and worked in the house* I worked in the field a little hut she kept me busy in the house* I was busy night and day* "No mafm* I never did go to school — never did go to school* "After I got grown I worked in the farm* When I wasn't farminf I was doinf other kinds of work* I used to cut and sew and knit and crochet* I stayed around the white folks so much they learned me to do all kinds of work. I never did buy my children any stockins — I knit 'em myself* "After old Master died old Miss hired us out to Ben Deans* but he was so cruel maiaa run away and went hack to old Miss* I know we stayed at Ben Deans till they was layin the crop by and I think he whipped mama that morning so she run away* "Yes mafm, I sho do member bout the Klu Klux — sho do* They looked dread- ful — nearly scare you to death* The Klu Klux was bad, and the paddyrollers too* 2 ftI can't think of nothin' much to tell you now but I know all about slavery. They used to build 'little hell1, made something like a barbecue pit and vifoen the niggers didn't do like they wanted they'd lay him over that 'little hell'. "I've done ever kind of work — raaulin rails, clearin up new ground. They was just one kind of wrk I didn't do and that was workin' with a grub- bin' hoe. I tell you I just worked myself to death till now I ain't able to do no thin'.n Interviewer's Comment Ella Pittman's son, Alrnira Pittman was present when I interviewed his mother. He was born in 1B84. He added this information to what Ella told me: "She is the mother of nine children — three living, i use to hear mama tell about how they did in slavery times. If she could hear good now she could map it out to you." I asked him why he didn't teach his mother to read and write and he said, "Well, I tell you, ma*na is high strung. She didn't have no real name till she went to Louisiana." These people live in a well-furnished home* 'The living room had a rug, overstuffed furniture and an organ. Ella was clean* 349 Interviewer Mrs* Bemice Bowden Person interviewed Ella Pittaan 2417 W. Eleventh Street. Pine Bluff , Arkansas Age 84 "Herefs one that lived then* I can remember fore the Civil War started* That was in the State of North Carolina where I was bred and born in March 1855* Mac Williams, he was my first owner and John Strickland was my last owner* That was durin9 of the war* My white folks told me I was thirteen when peace was declared* They told me in April if I make no mistake. That was in North Carolina* I grewed up there and found say ehildun there* That is -*» seven of them* And then I found two since I been down in here* I been in Arkansas about forty years* "When the war come I heard em say they was after free inf the people* "My mother worked in the field and old mistress kepf me in the house* She married a widow-man and he had four ehildun and then she had one so there was plenty for me to do* Yes ma'm! *I ainft never been to school a day in xay life* They didn't try to send me after freedom* I had a very, very bad, cruel stepfather and he sent all his ehildun to school but wouldn't send me* I stayed there till I was grown* I sho did* Then I married* Been married just once* Never had but that one man in my life* He was a very good man, too* Cose he was a poor man but he was good to me* "Yes mafmf I sho did see the Eu KLux and the paddyrollers, too* They done em bad I tell you* •• 350 "I know they was a white man they called Old Han Ford* He dug a pit just like a barbecue pit, and he would burn coals just like you was go in1 to barbecue* Then he put sticks across the top and when any of his niggers dldn9t do right, he laid em across that pit* I member they called it Old Ford's Hell# "I had a bad time fore freedom and a bad time after freedom till after I married* I9m doinY toUably well now, I lives with my son and his wife and she treats me very well* I can't live alone cause Ifse subject to inagestin9 and I takes sick right sadden* "I'm just as thankful as I can be that I9m get tin1 along as well as I is. "I stayed in the North in Detroit one year* I liked it very wellt I liked the white people very well* They was so sociable* Hy son lives there and works for Henry Ford* My oldest son stays in Indiana* "It was so cold I come back down here* I9se gettin* old and I needs to be warm* Good-bye** 30624 V **** 351 Interviewer Samuel S* Taylor Person interviewed Sarah Pittman 1320 W. Twentieth Street, Little Rook, Arkansas Age About 82 "I never saw nothing between white folks and colored folks* My white folks were good to us. My daddy's white folks were named Jordan-—Jim Jordan—and my mama* s folks were Jim Underwood* And they were good* My mama's and father1 s folks both were good to the colored folks* As the song goes, fI can tell it everywhere I go*f And thank the Lord, Ifm here to tell it too* I raised children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren you see there* That is my great-grandson playing there* He is having the time of his life* I raised him right too* You see how good he minds me* He better not do nothin* different* Hefs about two years old* "I was born in Union Parish, Louisiana way up yonder in them hills, me and my folks, and they come down here* * Jim Jordan married one of the Taylor girls*—Jim Taylor fs daughter* The old folks gave mama to them to do their housework* My father and mama didnft belong to the same masters* He died the first year of the surrender* He was a wonderful man* He was a Jackson* On Saturday night he would stay with us till Sunday* On Sunday night he would go home* He would play with us* Now he and mama both are dead* They are gone home and I am waiting to go* Theyfre waiting for me in the kingdom there* As the song says, 'I am waiting on the promises of God*1 "My mama did housework in slave time* I donft know what my father did* In them days you done some working from plantation to plantation* Them folks is all gone in now near about* Guess mine will be the next time* 2. 352 Barly Childhood "First thing I remember is staying at the house* We et at the white folksf house* We would go there in the evening before sundown and git our supper* One time Jim Underwood made me mad* Mama said something he didn't like* And he tied her thumbs together and tied them to a limb* Her feet could touch the ground—they weren't off the ground* He said she could stay there till she thought better of it* "Before the surrender I didn't do nothing in the line of work *cept 'tend to my mother1 s children* I didn't do no work at all 'cept that* By white folks were good to me* All my folks 'cept me axe gone* My grandmas and uncles and things all sett in' up yonder* All my children what is dead* they1 re up yonder* I ainft got but three living, and they're on their way* Minnie and Mamie and Annie, that is all I got. Mamie's the youngest and she's got grandchildren* How Freedom Came "The way we learned that freedom had come, my uncle cosfe to the fence and told my mama we were free and I went with her* Sure hefd been to the War* He come back with his budget* Don't you know what a budget is? You ain't never been to war, have you? Veil, you oughter know what a budget is* That's a knapsack* It had a pocket on each side and a water can on each shoulder* He come home with his budget on his back, and he come to the fence and told mama we was free and I heered him* Right After Freedom "Right after freedom my mama and them stayed with the same people they had been with* The rest of the people scattered wherever they wanted to go* Rut my uncle come there and got mama* They moved back to the Taylors then 3- 353 where say grandma was* WouldnH care if I had some of that good old spring water now where my grandma lived} "None of my people were ever bothered by the pateroles or the Eu KLux* "We come to Arkansas because we had kin folks down here* Just picked up and come on* I been here a long time* I don*t know how long, I donft keep up with nothing like that* When my husband was living I just followed him* He said that this was a good place and we could make a good living* So I just come on* When he died, those gravediggers dug his grave deep enough to put another man on top of him* But that donft hurt him none* He's settin* in the kingdom* He was a deacon in the church and his word went* The whole plantation would listen to him and do what he said* Every- body respected him because he was right* I was just married once and no man can take his place* He was the first one and the best one and the last one* He was heaven bound and he went on there* I don't know just how long I was married* It is in the Bible* It is in there in big letters* I canft get that right now* Itfs so big and heavy* But itfs in there* I think we left it in Detroit when I was there, and it ainft come back here yet* But I know we lived together a long time* "I remember the old slave~time songs but I canft think of them just now* 'Come to Jesus1 is one of them* 9Where shall I be when the first trumpet sounds?1 * that's another one* Another one is: 9If I could* I surely would; Set on the rock where Moses stood-—first verse or stanza* All of my sins been taken away, taken away—chorus* Mary wept and Martha moaned, Mary's gone to a world unknown—second verse or stanza* All of my sins are taken away, taken away—chorus*1 4. •I donft think nothing fbout these young folks* When they was turned loose a lot of them went wild and the young folks followed their leaders* Bat mine followed me and my daddy* ••My grandmother had a big old bay horse and she was midwife for the white and the colored f oiks* She would pat her side saddle on the old horse and get up and go, bless her heart; and me and my cousin had to stay there and take care of things* 5hefs gone now* The Lord left me here for some reason* And Ifm enjoyin1 it too* I have got my first cussin1 to do* I donft like to hear nobody cuss* I belong to the church* I belong to the Baptist church and I go to the Arch Street Church*" 354 30853 355 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed_______Mary Poe, Forrest City, Arkansas Age 60 *My papa used to tell about two men he. knowd stealing a hog* He was Wyatt Alexander* He was feeding one evening and the master was out there too that evening* They overheard two colored men inside the crib lot house. They was looking at the hogs* They planned to come back after dark and get a hog* The way it turned out master dressed up ragged and got inside that night* The first man come* They got a shoat and killed it, knocked it in the head* The master took it on his back to the log cabin* When he knocked, his wife opened the door* She seen who it was* She nearly fell out and when he seen who it was he run off* The master throwed the hog down. They all got the hot water and went to work* He left a third there and took part to the other man* He done gone to bed and he took a third on home* He said he wanted to see if they needed meat or wanted to keep in stealing practice* He didnft want them to waste his big hog meat neither* Said that man never come home for two weeks> ffraid he'd get a whooping* No, they said he never got a whooping but the meat was near by gone* "Seem lack hog stealing was common in North Carolina in them days from the way he talked* "Papa said he went down in the pasture one night to get a shoat* He said they had a fine big drove* He got one knocked over anf was carrying it out across the fence to the field* He seen another man* He couldn't see* *• 356 It was dark* He throwed the hog over on him* The man took the shoat on to his house and papa was afraid to say much about it* He said way flong towards day this man come bringing about half of that hog cleaned and ready to salt away* They got up and packed it away out of sight* "My mother was named Lucy Alexander, too*w 30500 357 .**£¦ ^ Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson vv Person interviewed Age 68 W, L. Pollacks Brinkley, Arkansas "I was born in Shelby County Tennessee, My folks all come from Richmond, Virginia. They come to Kentucky and then on to Tennessee, I am 68 years old. My father's master was Joe Rollacks and Mrs, Chicky they called his wife. My mother's master was Joe Ricks and they all called his wife Miss Fee. I guess it was Pheobe or Josephine but they never called her by them names. Seemed like they was all kin folks, I heard my mother say she dress up in some of the white folks dresses and hitch up the buggy, take dinner and carry two girls nearly grown out to church and to big picnics. She liked that. The servants would set the table and help the white folks plates at the table. Said they had a heap good eating. She had a plenty work to do but she got to take the girls places where the parents didn't want to go. She said they didn't know what to do wid freedom. She said it was like weening a child what never learned to eat yet, I forgot what they did do. She said work was hard to find and money scarce. They find some white folks feed em to do a little work. She said a nickle looked big as a dollar now. They couldn't buy a little bit. They like never get nough money to buy a barrel of flour. It was so high. Seem like she say I was walking when they got a barrel of flour. So many colored folks died right after freedom. They 2. 358 caught consumption. My mother said they was exposed mo than they been used to and mixing up in living quarters too much what caused it. My father voted a Republican ticket* I ain't voted much since I come to Arkansas. I been here 32 years. My farm failed over in Tennessee. I was out lookin' round for farmin' land, lookin' round for good work. I farmed then I worked seven or eight years on the section, then I helped do brick work till now I can't do but a mighty little. I had three children but they all dead. I got sugar dibeates. "The present times are tough on sick people. It is hard for me to get a living. I find the young folks all for their own selves. If I was well I could get by easy. If a man is strong he can get a little work along. "The times and young generation both bout to run away wid themselves, and the rest of the folks can't stop em 'pears to me like.** 30!;4I 359 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed_____"Doc" John Pope, Biscoe» Arkansas Age 87 I am 87 years old for a fact* I was born in De Soto County$ Mississippi, eight miles south of Memphis, Tennessee* No I didnft serve in de War but ay father Gus Pope did. He served in de War three years and never came home. He served in 63rd Regiiaent Infantry of de Yankee army. He died right at the surrender. I stayed on de farm till the surrender. We scattered around den. My father was promised #300*00 bounty and 160 acres of land. Dey was promised dat by the Constitution of the United States. Every soldier was promised dat* No he never got nary penny nor nary acre of land. We ainft got nuthin. De masters down in Mississippi did help fem «here they stayed on. I never stayed on* I left soon as de fightin was gone. I was roamin round in Memphis and man asked me if I wanted to go to college. He sent a train load to Fitz (Fisk) University. I stayed there till I graduated. I studied medicine generally* Sandy Odom, the preacher at Brinkley, was there same time as I was. He show is old. He*s up in ninety now. He had a brother here till he died. He was a fine doctor* He got more practice around here than any white doctor in this portion of de county. Fitz University was a fine college* It was run by rich folks up north. I donft know how long I stayed there* It was a good while* I went to Isaac Pope, my uncle* He was farming* u 2. 360 Briscoe owned the Pope niggers at my first recollection* He brought my uncle and a lot more over here where he owned a heap of dis land* It was all woods* Dats how I come here* After de Civil War? Dey had to "Root hog or die"* From 1860- 1870 the times was mighty hard. People rode through the county and killed both white and black* De carpet bagger was bout as bad as de Ku Kluck. I came here I said wid John Briscoe* They all called him Jack Briscoe, in 1881. I been here ever since cept W. T. Bdmonds and P. H. Conn sent me back home to get hands. I wrote fem how many I had. They wired tickets to Memphis. I fetched 52 families back. I been farmin and practicin all my life put near. I show do vote. I voted the last time for President Hoover* The first time I voted was at the General Grant election. I am a Republican, because it is* handed down to me. That's the party of my race* I ain't going to change. That's my party till I dies. We has our leader what instructs us how to vote. Dey say dey goiner pay 60 cents a hundred but I ain't able to pick no cotton. No I don't get no help from de relief. I think the pore class of folks in a mighty bad fix. Is what I think. The nigger is hard hit and the pore trash dey call 'em is too. I don't know what de cause is. It's been jess this way ever since I can recollect. Ho times show ain't one bit better. I owns dis house and dats all. I got one daughter. I went to Fitz (Fisk) University in 1872. The folks I told you about was there then too. Their names was Dr. S. B. Odom of Biscoe 3. 361 and his brother Sandy Odom. He preaches at Brinkley now* Doc Odom is dead. He served on the Biscoe School Board a long time wid two white men. I donft know much about the young generation. They done got too smart for me to advise. The young ones is gettin fine educations but it ainft doin fem no good. Some go north and cook. It don't do the balance of fem no good. If they got education they don't lack de farm. De sun too hot. No times ain't no better an de nigger ainft no better off en he used to be. A little salary dun run fem wild* £< Interviewer Mrs* Bernlce Bowden 362 Person interviewed______________William Porter______________ 1018 Louisiana Street, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 81 Occupation__________Janitor of church__________ "Yes1!! I lived in slavery times* I was born in 1856* I was horned in Tennessee hut the most of my life has been in Arkansas* "I remember n&ien Hood1 s raid was* That was the last fight of the war* I recollect seein* the soldiers marchin1 night and day for two days* I saw the cavalry men and the infant men walking* I heard em say the North was fight in1 the South* They called the North Yankees and the South Rebels* "Some of the Tennessee niggers was called free niggers* There was a colored man in Pulaski, Tennessee who owned slaves* "BSy father was workin* to buy his freedom and had just one more year to work when peace come* His master gave him a chance to buy his freedom* He worked for old master in the daytime and at night he worked for himself• He split rails and raised watermelons* "My fatherfs master was named Tom Gray at that time* Considering the times he was a very fair man* "When the war broke up I was workin1 around a barber shop in Nash- ville, Tennessee * nThe queen of England offered to buy the slaves and raise them till they were grown, then give them a horse, a plow and so many acres of ground but the South wouldn't accept this offer * 2. 363 *It was the rule of the South to keep the people as ignorant as possible, but my mother had a little advantage over some* The white children learned her to read and write * and when freedom came she could write her name and even scribble out a letter* She gave me my first lesson, and I started to school in f67# The North sent teachers down here after the war* They were government schools* nI was pretty apt in figgers -** studied Hayfs Arithmetic through the third book* I was getting along in school, but I slipped away from my people and was go in1 to get a pocket full of money and then go back* First man I worked for was a colored mian and I kept his books for him and was to get one-fourth of the crop* The first year he settled with me I had #165 clear after I paid all my debts* I done very well* I farmed one more year, then I come to Pine Bluff and did government work along the Arkansas River* *Ifve done carpenter work and concrete work* I learned it by doing it* I followed concrete wrk for a long time* Ifve hoped to build several houses here in Pine Bluff and a lot of these streets* "I have a brother and sister who graduated from Fisk University* *I think one thing about the younger generation is they need to be more educated in the way of manners and to have race pride and to be subject to the laws*" 30340 864 Interviewer Thomas Elmore Lacy Person interviewed Bob Potter, Russellville, Arkansas Age 65 "Sure, you oughter remember me~-Bob Potter. Used to know you when you was a boy passin* de house every day go in1 down to 4e old Democrat printin1 office* Knowed yof brother and all yof folks. Knowed yof pappy mighty well* Is yof ma and pa livin1 now? No suh, I reckin not*. "I was born de seventeenth of September, 1873 right here in Russell- ville* Daddy *s name was Dick, and mudderfs was Ann Potter * Daddy died before I was born, and I never seed him* Mudder's been dead about eighteen yeahs. Dey master was named Hale, and he lived up around Dover somewheres on his faim, but I dunno how dey come by de name Potter* Well* now, lenme see-~oh, yes, dey was freed at Dover aft^r dey come dere from North Cafliny* I think my |aa was born in West Virginia, and den dey went to North Cafliny and den to South Ca'liny, and den come to Arkansas* *I raised seven boys and lost five chillen* Dere was three girls and nine boys* 111 datfs livin* is here except one in Fresno, California* old woman here, she tells fortunes for de white folks and belongs to de Holiness church but I donft belong to none; I let her look after de religion for de fambly*" (Interjection from Mrs* Potterj *Yes suh, you bet I belongs to de Holiness chu'ch* You got to walk in de light to be saved, and if you do walk in de light you canft sin* I been saved for a good many yeahs and am go in* on in de faith* Praise de Lawd!*) ». 365 "My unidder was sold once for a hundud dollahs and once ag'in for thirty-eight hundud dollahs* Perhaps dis was jist before day left West Virginia and was shipped to North Ca'liny* De master put her upon a box, she said, made her jump up and pop her heels together three times and den turn around and pop her heels again to show how strong she was* She sure was strong and a hard worker* She could cut wood, tote logs, plow, hoe cotton, and do ever'thing on de place, and lived to be about ninety-five yeahs old» Yas suh, she was as old or older dan Aunt Joan is when she died* "No suh, I used to vote but I quit votin', for votinf never did git me nothinf; I quit two yeahs ago* You see, my politics didn't suit em* Maybe I shouldn't be tellin' you but I was a Socialist, and I was runnin1 a mine and wofkin* fifteen men, and dey was all Socialists, and de Republicans and Democrats sure put me out of business~dey put me to de bad* "Dat was about twelve yeahs ago when I run de mine* I been tryin' to git me a pension but maybe dat's one reason I can't git it* Oh yes, I owns my home—dat is, I did own it, but— "Oh Lawd, yes, I knows a lot of dem old songs like 'Let Our Ligjit Shine,1 and 'De Good Old Gospel Way,' and fHark From de Tomb.' Listen, you oughter hear Elder Beem sing dat one* He's de pastor of de Baptis' Chu'ch at Fort Staith* He can sure make it ringl wDe young folks of today compa'ed to dem when we was boys? Huh* You jist can't compaih em—can't be done* Ifflbty, a fo'-yeah-old young'un knows mo' today dan our grandmammies knowed* And in dem days de boys and gals could go out and play and swing togedder and behave deyselves* We went 3- 366 in our shufttails and hit was all right; we had two shufts to weah—one for every day and one for Sunday—and went in our shu'ttails both every day and Sunday and was respected* And if you didnft behave you sure got whupped* Dey didn't put dey arms around you and hug you and den put you off to sleep* Dey whupped you, and it was real whuppin*. "Used to hear my mudder talk about de Ku KLux Klan putt in1 cotton between her toes and whuppin* her, and dat's de way dey done us youngfuns when we didn't behave* And we used to have manners den, both whites and blacks. I wish times was like dem days, but deyfs gone* "Yes, we used to have our tasks to do befo1 goin? to bed* We'd have a little basket of cotton and had to pick de seeds all out of dat cotton befo? we went to bed* And we could all cafd and spin—yes suh—-make dat old spinnin* wheel go Z-z-z-z as you walked back and fo*f a-drawinf out de spool of yafn* And you could weave cloth and make all yof own britches, too* (Here his wife interpolated a homely illustration of the movement of rrde shettle* in the loom weaving—ed*) (^"Yes, I mind my mudder tellin1 many a time about dem KLan-men, and how dey whupped white women to make em give up de money dey had hid, and how dey used to burn dey feet* Yes suh, ainft no times like dem old days, and I wish we had times like em now.! Yes suh^ I111 sure come to see you in town one of dese days* Good mornin*." NOTE: Bob Potter is a most interesting Negpo character—one of the most genial personalities of the Old South that the interviewer has met anywhere. His humor is infectious, his voice boisterous, but delightful, and his uproarious laugh just such as one delights to listen to* And his narrations seem to ring with veracity? .3091; Interviewer Mra» Barnice Bowden Person Interviewed_______________Loaiae Prayer 3401 Short West Third, Pine Bluff, Arkansas Age 80 387 *I can member seeinf the Yankees* My mother died when I was a baby and my grandmother raised me* Ifse goin* on eighty* "TBhen the Yankees come we piled boxes and trunks in front of the doors and windows* Shefd say, fYou chillun get in the house; the Yankees are camin1.1 I didnft know what 'twas about--! sure didn*t* *Ifm honest in mind* You know the Yankees used to come in and whip the folks* I know they come in and whipped my grandma and when they come in we chillun went under the bed* Didnft know no better* Why did they whip her? Oh my God, I donft know bout dat* You know when we chillun saw em ridin* in a hurry we went in the house and under the bed* I specks theyfd a killed me if they come up to me cause theyfd a scared me to death* "We lived on the Williams1 place* All belonged to the same people* They give us plenty to eat such as 'twas* But in them days they fed the chillun mostly on bread and syrup* Sometimes we had greens and dumplin's* Jus1 scald some meal and roll up in a ball and drop in with the greens* Just a very few chickens we had. I donft love chicken though* If I can jus1 get the liver Ifm through with the chicken* "When I got big enough my grandmother had me in the field* I went to school a little bit but I didnft learn nothin1* Didn't go long enough* That I didn't cause the old man had us in the field* •• 368 "If we chillun in them days had had the sense these got now, I could remember more bout things* "I was a young missy when I married* *I told you the best I could—>thatf s all I know* I been treated pretty good**