Slave narratives, a folk history of slavery in the United States from interviews with former slaves. Arkansas Narratives, Volume II, Part 6: a machine-readable transcription.

Social customs - reminiscences of an ex-slave. 005 001

~ ?~ ~ fl ~ Texarkana D istriot I ~ ~: ~ ~ - : ~ ~ ~ FOLKlORE SUBJEC TS ~ ~ t Naine of Interviewer ~ ~- ~ ~ . ~ Subject ~ ~ -~- -~ -~ - ~ ~ -ReniinisoencesofanEx-Siave Story Informat ion ( If not enough s paoe on this page add page) Several months a go, I called at 1217 Ash Street, Texarkaxia, Arkansas where I had been informed a voluble old negro lived. An aged, gray-haired, negro woman came to the door and informed nie her father was in the wood shed at the back of the house. Going around to the wood shed I found hin busily engaged in storing his i~rinter supply of wood. V~hen I made known my missioi~ he readily agreed to answer all niy questions as best he could. Seating himself on a block of wood, he told this almost incredible story, along with lengthy discourses on politics, religion andother current events: nI wuz born Mardi 15, 1843, in Monroe County, Mississippi, near Aberdeen, Mah Mahster wuz Colonel Oghurn, one ob de biggea planters in de state of Miss issippi. Manys de time he raised so much cotton dat dorn big steamers just couldnt carry it all down to N Awlins in one year. But den along came de Civil War an we didn t raise nothin fo several years. ~ T~hy? Beoase most uf us jined t FB Confederate Arny in C o .onel Ogburn s regiment a s servant s and bodyguards. An let me tell ye somethin , whitefolks. Dore never v~uz a war like dis war. ~ Vhy I m mbor dat after de battle of Corinth, Miss., a five acre field was so thickly covered wid de dead and wounded dat yot couldn t touch de ground in walkin across it. And de oiiliest way to bury dem wuz to out a deep furrow wid a plow, lay de soldiers head to head, an plow de dirt back on dem. About a year after de war started de Mahster got one ob dose ~ frum de Army so wecould come toUiller County, where he bo ght de place on Red River now kno~wn as de Adams Farm., This Information given by ~ P~OQ113~ ~ ~ _ Place of Residence ~ ~?~8treet,~ Texarka~, Ax~caflsas ~ Occupation None ~ AGE93

006 002

#2 .. 2 When we fust came here dia place, as well as de rest ob de Valley, wuz just a big canebrake nothin lived in dere but bears, wolves, and varmints, 1fl~y de Mahster would habe to round up de livestock each afternoon, put dem in pens, and den put out guards all night to keep de wolves and bears frum gettin em. De folks didn t go gallivatiri round nightslike dey do now or de varmints would get them. But den we didn t stay here but a few months until de Mahster e A.LO.L. wuz up, so wo had to go back and jine de army. We fought in Mississippi Al abama, Ge orgia, and South Carol ma. ~hen de war ended de Maheter moved us to Miller County, but not on de Adams farm. For de man ~,tiut used to own de farm said Uncle Sam hadn t made any such money as wuz paid him for de farm, so he wanted his farm back. Dat Confederate money wuzn t worth de paper it wuz printed on, so de Mahster had to gib him back de farm. Poor Massa Ogburn - he didn~t live long after dat. He end his wife are buried side by side inRondo Cemetery? Not long after de negroes wuz freed, I took 86 ob dem to de votin place at Homan and voted em al 1 stra ight Democratic . on ~ way back home dat evenin five negroes jumped frum de bushes and stopped me. ~ ey splained dat I wuz too fluential wid de negroes and proceeded to string me up by de neck. I hollers as loud as I could, and Roy Nash and Hugh Burton, de election officers, just happen to be oomin down de road and hear ~ yell. Dey ran off de niggers and cut rt~ down, but by dat tine I had passed out. It wuz several weeks befo I got well, and I can still fe l dat rope round my neck. Iffen dey had known how to tie a haligmans knot I wouldn t be here to tell you about it. \ Tt wuzn t long after dis dat I jined Colonel Baker s Gang for teotion. Colonel Baker wuz a great and brave man and did mo fo de white folks of dis Country den any other man. Why iffen it hadn t been Co him de white folks couldn t hab lived in dis country, de negroes wuz so mean. Dey wuz so mean dat dey t ~ed heavy plow shoe s aroun de necks ob two little ~thite boys and thre* dem in de lake. Yes euh. I wuz dere.

007 003

#3 ~ 3 ~nd another time I wuz wid a bunch of niggers when dey wuz plannin ~n kilhin a white r~an who wuz a friend ob mine. As soon as I could I ~1i~ away and tips him off. When I got back one ob dem niggers looks at me suspicious like and asks, where yo been, nigger? I wuz shakin like a leaf in a storm, but I says : I ain t been nowhere just went home to get some cartridges to help kill dis If white man. Not long after I jined Oolonel Baker s Gang, we wuz ooinin frum F~lt~~ to C li~per throu gh de Red River bottoms De r iver wtiz overfiowin ~ t as we wuz orcssin a deep, swift slough, Colonel Baker and his horse got tangled up in soinS grape V1fl65s Colonel Baker yelled, and I turned my mule around and cut all de grape vine loose wid my Bowie knife. Dere ain t nothin like a mule for swiimnin ~ Dey can swim circles aroun ~y horse. Aslongas he lived, Colonel Baker was always grateful to me ~ savin his life . De Colonel hated de sight ob mean niggers. Wewould ride up to a ~gro settlement, and tell de niggers we wuz organizing a coicred militia to catch Cullen Baker snd his gang. Most ob de negroes would join, but some ob dem had to be en couraged by Colonel Bakerts big gun. De recruits would be lined up in an open field fo drilling. And dey sho wuz drilled. Colonel Baker and his men would shoot t1~m by the score. Dey killed 53 at Ho~an,Arkansas, 86 at Rocky Coxnfort,( Foreman~ Arkansas, 6 near Ogden, Arkansas, G on de Temple place, 62 at Jefferson, Texas, 100 in Ncrth Louisiana, 73 at Marshall, Texas, and several others. n All of de big planters wuz friendly to Cullen Baker. I have carried supplies rr~any times trum de big plantations Hervey, Glass, and others to Cullen Baker. Dc Colonel always carried a big double barrel shotgun. It must have been de biggest shotgun in de world, not less den a number eight size. He whipped 16 soldiers at Old B ~t~~ wid dis gun one ti~. nI saw Colonel Baker killed. We had just arrived at his father in law s house and I wuz in the horse lot, about 50 yards from de house, when Joe Davis, Thomas Orr and some more men rode up.

008 004

#4 . 4 De Colonel WUZ rbandln by de chimney an did not see dem come aroun de house. Dey killed Mm befo he knew dey wuz aroun One ob de n~n asked Mr. Foster, Where at dat d-..r~ nigger? I ducked down and crawled in under de rail fence and ran - I didn t stop ttjl I wuz deep in the Sulphur River bottoms. Every minute fly heart seemed like it wuz gem to jump right out uv my mouth. I wuz the worst scared nigger that ever lived. I have lived many year s since dat tine De times and ways of livin have ohariged. I member killing deer where the Texarkana National Bank stands, way befo Texarkana wuz even thought of. This place wuz one of my favorite deer stands. Nix Creek used to be just full ob fish. What used to be the best fishing hole arouu~ here is now covered by t1~ Methodist Churoh (Negro), in East Texarkana. Dr. Weetten had a big fine home out where 8pringlake Park is. He wuz killed when thrown by a buckin horse. All of de young people I knew den have been dead u~ years.

Anecdotes of an aged ex-slave. 009 005

~ OI*LOR~ ~sUE~~CT3 ~3Q~ ~ N~ne O~ litt erviewer ~ i~. ~u Subject~ ~ - ~ MedEx~~1ave. - - ~ -~.u- ~ _a ~ ~ ~ 5t017 ~ Ini orniation: Mali young ma.r3t er wuz ~o e ~burn. Me and him ~roweci up togedd~er an I wuz hi~ body guard dunn de wahr. Many s de day I ze watched de amoke ob battle clear away an wait 0 t de return ob mali inareter. AU de time I felt we wuz born t o win dat wahr out God knowed ~n you knowS de re~u .t. Th~ ee years a~o I went to LittLe Rock wid Iv~. Fisher. La ai . 01k8 whut goes to dis city, we wein our wa.yto de Capitol to see de Governor. Goy. BittreU sittixi uae in his great flne office, saw me and jined me in conversation. 1~ ~s question he axed me~ viiz ~hut perky does yo tiliate I sez, de I~anocrat ~ de parby whut s a frien to d~e nigger. De Governor axed me how does I lac dis lite? I sez very well, tho things has ehan~ed since slavery days. Those wuz good oie deys Lor de black men; didn t he!ter w ry about mithin . Now, I aho d~oes mah share ob wolTyin I worn es ft tmi one mea . to de odder I worn es about ihure I ze gwine get some mo clothes when dese wears out? I tale de Goveirnor niali sperience wif de Republican Party dunn de wahr. I bees hune times in mali lise an one ob de times by de Republicans. Long time ago, Mr. Boy Nash an t&. iiugh Sutton wuz a settin ovah de ballot box on lection day, when I vot ad Oo Democrat s. Tas euh; I jus marches em in en tells eDi how to a~t dey vot e. Dat night on mali way hc~e fr~ de votin goin down de lon&.y road, I wuz stopped an strung up to a tree bY de neck. DeY aPl&tI~Od dat I wuz too fluentia . wid de ~i~gers. ~Vhen I wuz i~8flgifl dere I did ~aae man~il howlin . Dat t siio brought de whi te 1~olks. When dey se e mah d dey leased d e rope an I wuz saved. J~&t is ihen I pealed to Col. Baker for tection. tie wuz mah frien as iox~ as he lib, axxl he wuz a good frien ob de South cause he saved lots ob white rolks frun de wrath ob de mean niggtt (Not e : The Col ~aker referred ~o was Cullen Baker the leader O~ a z~thleaa gang o~ Oushwhaokera that operated in this section shortly after the Civil Wer.) ~9O893 5 I

010 006

Name of I~nterviewer M~a.W.M,~aQ. SubjeCt~ .--.~u- Anecdoteaof ~A~~-S1ave. 3t017 ~nfoi~ation : Lk:c Quinn tells a ghost story oonnecte~ vritA~ the old ehur h at Rox~1o, built hi 1861. De MasoniC flaU wuz built up ovali dis buildin an ever month dey had dey meetin . One ni~iit, when dey was seinbied, two men wuz kilt. Dat sho did. scatter dat lot ob ~(S8Ofl ~DL~ fi~i dat time on d.e spirits ob d~ese men. roaniecl dis ehu ch. Scanetiuie in de dead c ~ XL1~it, dat beLl. wud rir~ loud an clear, wakin ~U d~e folks. Down dey wud come, clos like, to de ehu ch, ~ but scaved to go closer. I~r. ~sil1 Crabtree, a rich man an a mati whut wuz scared too offered anybody ~1OO . 00 to go inai&te dat chu ch an stay one hour. Didn t nobody need. dat ~1OO.OO dat bad! The old negro teils the fQUowix~ grave yard at y: One dart, drizzly nicht de ni~gers wuz out in de woods ahootin craps. I didn t hab lao money to jine ixi de game. One nigger say, boo, offen you go down to de eemetey an bring one o:b dem soot boa da rum one ob dem graves we il gib yo a doUar. I embles off to de cemete y cauae I really needed dat money. I goes inside walks careftU. like not want in to di atu nutithi an finally d.e grave atone 1ea~t up in riront ob ma. I retchea down to pick up ~e foot boa d, an loi de black cata wuz habin a meetin ovali dat grave an dey objected to mali izitrudin , but I d1d~I t pay em no mind; jua Letched dat boa d oac to dein ni~gers, an ~ oless de Laid, _ dey ~ib me two douereZ IJ12oi~nation given by ~ ~ ~ Place o ~ Residence 2th& ~ ~ ~ - -~ - ~ Occupation ~ s - - ~ ~S1~yp ).~ ~. ~ ~ ~ ~e )~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ .~ ~ P8f~e~7

[Interview with Rankins, Diana] 016 012

I o) ) ~ Interviewer Miss IreneRobertson Person interviewed Diana Rankin~, Brln ciey, Arkax~sas A~e ~ I was born at ~.r1ington, Tennessee but ~ien I was a chile the depot was called With. My parents name Sarah arid Solomon Green. There was seven girls and one boy of us. My sister died last year had two children ol d as I . I was the youngest chile Folks mated younger than they do now and seem like they had better times when there was a bi g family0 Adam Turnover in Charleston, South Carolina owned my papa. When he died they sold him. He was one year and 8ix months old ~ien he was sold. I think S. C. Bachelor, around Brownsville, Tennessee, owned rnsma tirst~ She said they put her upon the block and sold her and her mother was crying. The man after he sold her ask her if she didn t want him to sell her. She said she didn t care but said ~he knowed she was afraid to say she cared cause she was crying. She r~ver seen her mama no more. She was carried off on a horse. She was a little girl then. General Hayes bought her and he bought papa too. They played together. General Hayes made the little boys run races so he could see who could run the fastest. Papa said they picked him up and carried him oft. He said they pressed him into the breastworks of the war. He didn t want to go to ware Mi~ Hayes kept him hid out but they stole him and took him to fight. He cor~je home, He belong to J~ack Hayes, Genera . Hayes son. They called hirn Mr. ~Tack or Mr. Hayes when freedom come. Mr. Jack sent him to Corno~ Mississippi to work and. to Duncan, irkansas to work his land.

017 013

2. 13 I was fifteen yeara old ge~ we cc~e to i.rkansas. ~ Mr. Walker Hayes that wae president of the Coninercial Appeal over at Memphis lost his land, We been from place to place over Arkansas since then, Mr. Walker wae General Hayes grandson. We worked. field hands t ill then, we do anyth1n~ ce, I iiursed some for Mr. Charles Williams in Memphis. I have done house work. I got two children. My 80fl got one leg ott. I live with h1~. This little ~ran boy ~ most pleasure to us all, ~ The Ku Klux never did irLtertere with uPs, They never c ~ to a~ir house. I have seen them.. When papa coins fran war I t was all over, We knowed lt was frsedcm, Everybody was in a stir and talking and going scmewhere. He had got his fill of freedom in the war. He said turn us all out to freeze and starve, He stayed with the Hayes till he died and marna died and all of ua scattered out when Mr. Walker Hayes lost his land. Ladies used to be too fine to be voting. I m too ld now. My men folks said they voted. They come home and say how they voted all I know about voting, Walker Avenu.e In Memphis is named tor Mr. Walker Hayes and Macremore was named for him or by him one. We never was give a thing at freedom ~t papa was buying a place tr~ his n~aster and got in debt and sold it. I don t own a home. I have high blood pressure and the Welfare gives me *8 a month. I m. not able to work. When you been used to a good plenty lt is mighty bad to get mighty near helpless.

[Interview with Rassberry, Senia] 018 014

14 :ios:L& Interviewer~ ~jI,~ ~ Bowdon Per8oxl interviewed Sei~ja Basaberry 810 Cat&4a Street ~Pine if, rkansaa ~ Yes m, I know what I hear em say. Well, in slavery times I helped make the soldiers clothes. I was born on the old J~ack Hall place on the Arkansas River in .Ieffer8on County. I know I was leven years old ~ien peace declared. I reckon I can member fore the War started. I know I was bastin then coats and pants. My old master s naine was J~ack Hall and old mistress name was Priscilla. Oh, yes m, they was good to me ~just a8 good to me as they could be. ~it ever once in awhile they d call ins and say, t I d say, What you want? They say, t you out there dein so and so? I d say, No. They say, Now, you re tellin a lie and they d whip ~. I was the house girl, zus and my siater~ My mammy was the cook. Old master had two plantations. $omstimes he had a overseer and sornetinies h~ didn t. Oh, they had plenty to eat, hog meat and cracklin bread. Yes ma em, I loved that, I reckon. I et so rauch ot it then I don t hardly ever want it now. They had so much to eat. Blackberry cobbler? Oh Lawd, How many brothers and sisters? Me? My dear, I don t know how many I had but I heard my mother say that all the chillun she did have, that she had 1eir~~ chulluzi.

019 015

2. :15 SOur white folka took US to Texas du.rin of the War. I think my old master 8aid we stayed there three years. My mother died there with a con~est1ve chill. We come back here to Arkansas after freedom and I think my father worked for J ack Hall three or four years. 11e woul&n t let hin leave. He raised nW father and thought so much of him. He worked on the shares. After freedom I went to school, I learnt to read and write but I just wouldn t do it. I learnt the other chiflun though. I did that. I was into ever thing. I learnt them that what I could do. Blue Back? Them s the very ones I ~ studied. In slavery times I had to rise as early as I could. Old master would cive me any little thing around the house that I wanted. They said he was too old to go to war. Some of the hands rthi oft but I didn t know where they went to. Some of the people was better off slave s than they was free I don t study bout things now but sometimes seems like all them things conies before I used to hear em talkin bout old J~eff Davis. I didn t know what they was talkin bout but I heered. em. I was sixteen when I married and I had eleven chillun. All dead but Yes rn, I been treated good all my lite by white and. black. All of em loved iris seemed like. I been livin in ~&rkansas all my life. I never have worked in the field. I always worked in the house. I always was a seamstress- made pants for the men on the place.

020 016

3e &~ tter I COE1O here to Pine Bluff I worked for the white folks. Uaed to cook and wash and iron, Done a lot of work. I did that, I been blind leven years but I thank the I~rd I been here that long. Glory to 3esus~ Oh, Lord have mercy~ Glory, glory, glory to J!e~ua3~

[Interview with Reaves, Clay] 021 017

I ~ Misa Irene Robertson ~ ~lay~ Re~jl~ht e~rnan)~ Palestine, Arkansas IntervIeWer Person Interviewed Age ~ I will be eighty years old my next birthday. It will be ~uly 6th. Father was bought frcni Kentucky. I u.ldn t tell you about him. He stayed oI~ the Reavea place that year, the year of the surrender, and l~tt, Re didn t live with mother ever again. I never did hear no reason. He went 0E. Joe Night s farm. fie left n~ and a sister older but there was one dead between us. Mother raised us. She stayed on with the Reavea two years after he left. The last year she was there she hired to than. The only thing she ever done bofore freedom was cook and weave. She had her lo~ in the kitchen. It was a great big kitchen built off trcm the house and a portico joined it to the house. I used to lay up under her loom. It waz warm there In winter time. I was the baby. I heard mother say s~ things I remember well. She said ehe was never sold. ~ie said the Reaves said her children need never worry, they would never be sold. We was Heaves from back yonder~ Mother s grandfather was a white man. She was a Reaves and her c;~: ii dren are mostly Reavea. She was light Father was about might be a little darker than I am (mulatto). At times she worked in the field, ~4t ifl rush time. She wove all the clothes on the place. She worked at the loom and I lay up under there all day long. Mother had three girls and f~ivs boys0

022 018

2. 1 ~ Mr. Reav.s, we called him master, had two boys in the army. He was a real old men. He may have had more than two but I know there was two gone off. The white folks lived in sight of the quarters. Their bouse was a big house and painted white. I ve been in there. I never seen no grand parents of mine that I was allowed to claim kin with. When I got up some size I was allowed to go see father. I went over ta see him sometimes. After freedcm~ he went to where his brothers lived. They wanted him to change his name trcmi Reaves to Cox and he did. He ebanged it from J~ames Reaves to Te~a Cox. ~it I couldn t tell you it at ofl~ tinie they belong to Cox in Kentucky or 1f they belong to Cox in Tenn.~ essee or if they took on a name they liked. e, ~ kept my name Reaves. I em a Reaves from start to finish. I was rai sed by mother and she was a Reaves. Her n~ie was Olive Reaves. Her old mistress name was Charlotte Reavee, old master was ~dmond Reaves. Now the boys I coin. to know was 4Tohn, Bob; girls, Mary and Jane. There was older children. Mother was a sensible, obedient woman. Nobody ever treated her very wrong. She was the only one ever chasti aed ~ They 8t.oiled me. We got plenty plain rations. I never seen nobody marri d ti.ll after the surrender. I seen one w~an chastised. I wasn t close. I L~ver learned what it was abOUt. Old Master Reeves was laying it on. Mother moved to New Castle Tennessee from Mr. Heaves ce. Ii re3:~ed ~- three of us. We bad been living southea8t of Boliver, Tennessee, iii Har~e~n County. I think my kin tolks are all dead. Father a oth r C~ii1dren may be over in Tennessee now. Yes, I know them. Mother died over at Palestine with i~. She alway8 lived with ~. I ~o.i i ied twice, had one child by each wite. Both wives are dead and my children are d.o.d.

023 019

5. 19 Mother said I had thrss older brothers went to the Clvi). War and never come back hoii~. Shs never heard from thea after they went off. I don t know but lt was my understanding that they was to be addiere. I don t recollect them, Mother got 30 she waan t able to work in the field several years before ehe died. She worked in the fleld long as she waa able. ~. lired with me all my whole 11f. till ehe died. a~t I mr~d. 8on~ years ~e done well and acme years we jess could live, I farmed all my 11f, but a rew years. I love farm life. It I. independent living. I ~an you ars about your own man out there. I work my garden out at my shop now. I make baskets and bottc~n chairs at Palestine. A f~i years I kept Mre. Wilkerson s yard and garden. Her husband di ed and she moved off to )~mphi.. They did live at Palestine. 1 heard it said that Reaves said he could keep his own farm. Ths Ku :~cux never bothered us. I have heard a lot of things but I am telling you what I know. I don t know nothing about the Civil War nor the Ktt Klux. I Was most too small a boy at that time to know much. I used to vote. can t write icy nen~. ~n t tool with it. I went to school on rainy days. I went a few other days. People used to have to work. I always wanted to work. I piddle around all the ti~ working now. I went to colored teachers all together. I can read a little. ni had a brother-in-slaw In Arkansas. I heard a lot o~ talk. I come on a visit and stayed three months. I went back and moved here. I coi~ to this State -~ over at Palestine ~ March U,, 1883 on ~inday. I have a good recollection, or I think I have for my age. I ve lived a pretty 8efl3ible I i~. worked hard but had good health. It I had another li te to live now I would go to the farm. I love farm life.

024 020

4* o I chop wood, ard.n, go in th woo~t~ get ~y epUnte for basketa, chain. I live by myself. I eat out acius with I call them kin. They ars my aisteD B children. I get e~ help, $10 end cc~nodit lea. When I did vote I voted Republican or I thought I did. ~it now lt I did vote I might change up. Timee have changed. I don t know much about the young g.neratlcn. I do talk with them ~ S !~. Th y ars coming up in a changed tln~m. I wouldn t talk against the colored race of people. Some of them work ~ are good. Some don t0 I think some will not work. Maybe they would. I come to know mighty litt .s about them no more than I know about the white girla and boys. I see them on the streets about as nich as I ever see colored folks anywhsre.

[Interview with Reeves, James] 028 024

30842 24 Interv1ower~ Samu.18.Tajlor ~ Person interviewed Jarn..B..ye~ 241:9 w; Tweiiti~etii Stre t, Litti. Rock, Arkan aa Age~~ ~ 68 _~ Occupation - ~- - ~ ~ ~ - I was born in 1870 down In Ouachlta County about tourteen milee ao~tth of Camden going on toward ~1 Dorado. They didii t have no railroad theh. I was a young man when they put the branch through. You see, X was born five years after slavery, but I remember my mother, my grandmother, and my great~ grandiiother. They taken me and talked to me freely and I know everything they knew. Great-Grandmother on Mother a Side My great-grandmother belonged to the Goodm*ina. Her master was named Bob Goodinen. She lived to get one hundred thirteen yeara old. ?rom the children of the old master, I got the information concerning her age. I looked it up after emancipation. One of old maater a eons was named Frank Goodir~an and another was named Norphleet 000cbnan, and there was another whose nauie I don t recall. My grandmother, great-~grandmother, was named Frankie Goodman. I wasn t here in slavery time, but I knew her after emancipation. Grandmother on Mother s Side My grandmother was named Hannah Gootiman. These were different Goodii~ malls but they were kin to the5~ others. There waa a large family of them. I don t know the correct age of my grandmother but she was up in the ei~htjea when she died.

029 025

2. Mother My mother waa born a Goo~n, but ahe married Beevea, my father. Th record of their marriage I ain t got. Back there, they didn t keep up 11k. you and I do and we t keep up like these younger folks do Near as I could get It, she lived to be about seventy-one yeara old. . Pather My father was named Adam Reeves. fia master waa named Rick Reevee. My father was born in Union County about ten miles from K . Dorado. You m1~ht say north of Xl Dorado becauae he lived south of Camden. He lived there all his 1if~. I have known him to move out ot Ouachita County into Union, and from Union back to Ouachita. Grandfather on Mother a Side My grandfather on my mother a aide wae Henry Goothneu ~ Rie mi atma was a wcman by the name of Lucy Goodman. She was the Same woman who owned my mother There iras a big family of~ them Goodiiena. His age--he lived to be about eighty yeara old. lis. died in Hot Spring County. Grandmother on Father s Side My grandmother on my father a side was named Hetty. Her master wag named Sam Abbott. She lived right close to seventy-tour or seventy five years. She been gone quite a while now. ~ie used to live with papa. Othr Ancestors I don t know so auch about another of my ancestors.

030 026

5. lite My wife didu t have many people. She laiowa her mother, her mother e mistTha and all Her ma i~e 2ian~d Martha Henson. That waa her married name. Her miatreas last na~z~e was Stribling. Martha Ilensozi was a well.. treated slave. The Striblinga lived in Roclcport, Arkansas, but their native home was Georgia. I don t know where the Striblinga are now. The old man died before the Civil War broke out, I gueea they ars all dead and iii torment. My wite a grandmother and grandtather on her mother a aide were gone so far back that neither she nor I know anything about them. Ihippinga My reat~randmother on m~ mother a aide was in Union County when I knew anything of her.-cloee to ~1 Dorado. I was about twenty two yeara old when she died. She was ta.U and spare built, dark ginger cake color. \ Coarse straight black hair that had begun to mingle with gray. She noTar did get real gray, and her hair ~aa never white. Even when she died, at a hundred and thirteen years, her hair was mostly black mingled with gray. \ The overseer knocked her in the head in slavery times, and they had to put a silver half.dollar in her head to hold her brains in. I have seen the place inyselt. When I was a little fellow she used to let me feel the place and she would say, That s where the overseer knocked granny in the he~id son. I got a half- dollar In there . I would put her hair aside.~ my but 8he had beautit~il hairl--and look at the place. ~ My wife could toU you what my mother told her. She has seen the marks on my mother a back and has asked, Mama, what a all these marks on your bak ? And mama would say, Tha a where I was whipped in slavery tintes, daughter. She never did like to tell the details. ~it the scars were awful.

031 027

4. (~uu,( My grandmother was roug)ily treated and she had pretty near lost her eyesight from the ill treat~nt. sue got so ~etore &ie died that ehe could hardlY see to go nowhere I don t know what it waa they done to her that made her eyesight bad, but she insleted that lt wa~ due to bad treatment in slavery time. PatroUera WI have heard that the paterolea used. to run the slaves it they didn t have a pass from their mistress and master. The paterolea would run th~ and catch them and whip them. How Freedom Cerna All my mother knew was that it got out that the Negroes were trees The day before the old woman told them that they were free, my grandfather, Henry Goodman iho was a ~~ater, old mie called him and told him to tell all the darkies to come up to the house the next day. Next morning, she said, Henry, you forgot what I told you. I want you to cal . all the darkies up here this morning. Henry had a voice like a fog-horn. He started hollering. I wish I could holler the way he did, but I got to consider the neighbors. He hollered, Tention, tention, hey; Miss Lucy says she wants you ail up to ths big house this morning. She s got 8oXnepin to tell you. They ai . come up to the yard before the house. When they got there, 8he says to him-.not to them; she wouldn t talk to them that morning; mayhe she was too full~ Henry, you all just as free now as I a~. You can stay here with Misa Lucy or you can go to work with whoensoever YOfl will. YOU don t belong to M1S~ LUCy no more.

032

5. She had been sick for quite a bit, and the was just able to co~ to the door and d liver that message Three weeks after that time they brought her out 0fb the house feet toremost and took her to the oemetery. The news killed her dead. That s been seventy years ago, and they just now picking up on it! . Slave Time Amusements The old people say they used to have breakdowns in slave tint--break down daices with fiddle and banjo imiaic Far after slavery, they had them. The only other amusement worth speaking about was the churches. Far as the churches was coucerned, they had to steal out and go to th~. Old man Balm Whitlow can tell you all about the way they held church. They would slip oft in the woods and carry a ~ng of darkies down, and the next morning old master would whip them for it. Next Sunday they would do the same thing again and get another whipping. And it went on like that every week. When old man Whitlow caine out from slavery, he continued to preach. 3~t the darkies didn t have to steal out then. He s dead now, him and the old lady both. Houses The slaves lived in old log houses. Some 0fb them would be hewed and put up well. I have seen lots of them. Sometimes they would dob the cracks with mud and would have box pla.mks floors, one by eight or one by ten, rough lumber, not dressed. Set em as close together as they could but then there would be cracks in them. I can carry you to sc~ old 1o~ houae~ down in Union County now 1f they haven t been torn down recently.

033 028

6, 28 Oiie old log house there used to be old lady Lucy Goobian a hc~, It has foui rooma. It has a hail running through lt. It waa built in slave times. There la a spring about two hundred yards from it. That ja about ten 01 twelve feet deep. There la a big C7~1O88 tree trunk hollowed out and sunk down in lt to nzke a curbing. That cypress is about two or three feet acrOss. The old man, Henry Goodman, sunk that cypress down in there in slavery time. He drove an ox team all the time. That is ai . the work he done. She would tell all the overseers, Now, don t you too . with Henry because we ain t never whipped him ourselves. I don t know who lt is that is living now. It s been fifty years ago since I was there. Right After Freedcii Right after freedom, when the surrender came my mother was just a girl bout fifteen or sixteen. She married after treedcsa. Her and her husband farmed for a living -you know, sharecropped. KU flux Klan ~The Ku Klux and the pateroles were the same thing, only the Klan was more up to date. s all set up with a hellish principle It s old Pharaoh exactly. The ia~ iaux Klan didn t have no part iculai~ effect on the NegrO except to scare him~ i?hen the emancipation caxr~ about, the people of the South went to work to see what they could do about it. The whole South was under martial law. Soriie of the people forn~d the KiL Klux Klan to keep the Negro down. I never ~OBieniber that they bothered any of our family or the people in our houas. ~it they scared aune and whipped more and killed a~.

034 029

1 7. Po1itioe~ Trouble about 1888 The darkies and the white .tolka in Union County had an inaurrection over the poila about the yar 1888. tn them days, when you wanted to j*tt a Republican man in, you didn t have to do ich campaigning. They just went to the polls and put him in. Xverybody that could vote waa Republican. In the fall of 1888 they had a ~xeat trouble down there, and acme of them got killed. They went around and c~nnar ded the Negroes not to go to the poila the next day. Sane of the Negroes would tell them, Well, I am going to the polls tc~norrow it I have to crawl. And then acme of them would say, t t d like to know how you goin to . The nigger would ask right back, How you goin to vote? The white man would say, I m goin to vote ae I damn pleaee. Then the nigger would say, I m going to do the same thing. That started the trouble. On Sunday before the elect ion on Monday, they went around through that county in gange. They ahot acinefew otthe~Regroea. As the Negroes didzL t have no weapons to pro tact theirselvea they du t have no chance. In that way, quite a few of the Negroes disbanded their homes and went into different eountiea and different portiona of the state and different states. Henry Goodman, my grandfather, came into Hot Spring County in this way. Opinions Roosevelt has got himself in a predicament. They are dru.nk and don t know what to do. The whole world ta stirred up over why one fourth of the world should itile the other tIir.e rourth.. Onstourth of the world is white. The Bible says a house divided can t stand. The people don t know what to do. Look how they tight the Wa~a Hour Bill. Look at the excite.. ment they raieed when it was first suggested that the Union and Confederate Vete~~~ meet together.

035 030

8. 3() We were savages when ie came over here ~ Kvery~thing we got and everything ie know, good and bad, we got frcm the white fOlk8. Don t know how they can get impatient with ua when everything w do they learnt ua~ Roosevelt has done more than any Democrat that has ever been in the Chair. He had to do something to keep down a rebellion. Then we like to had one as it is through the labor queetion. ~ t The P~9~ white man always has been in a tight4 He was almost aa much ~ oppressed ae the Negro. The young people ot today alu t got no sense They don t give no thought to nothing. They don t know how to think at aU. Ai . the 3choola and education they give don t make them think. If I had as much education as they have I would be able to acccmplieh soenething. The teachers don t press down on them and make them know what they go over. There is a whol lot of thinga happening now. Old People in Pulaski County Out in Pulaski County, going west out the Nineteenth Street- Pike till you strike the Saline County line, there are quite a tow old colored people I gueaa you would find no less than twenty-five or thirty out that way. There is one old i~n n~ed ~uniue Peterson out that way who used to run a mill. 1fb you find him, he is very old and has a good memory. He ie a mulatto. You could get out to him by going down till you c~e to a place that is called the Henderson Lane. You turn to the right and go oft the pike less than a mile and you o~e to a big one-~atory house aettin on a hill where Peterson liv a. Right on beyond that about three rourthe of a mile on the right side ot the road, you come to George Gregory a. The mother of my church is about eighty-one years old but she is over in Saline County. Her name is Taiie Toynsr.

036 031

9. 31 There are quite a few old pera~ns around Woodson that can give y~i j~forxnat ion. aLt that is in Saline County, I think. Sweet Home Wrighta. ville Poltee- all of them have a few old colored persona on the f~arm that was here in slavery times. Interviewer s Conmient Reeves story was taken because ot his clear niemorlee of hie parente and grandparente. Re described to me an old log house etill atanding in Union County. I got all agog with excitement I asked him for the exact beat ion. He gave it Then I eugge sted that maybe he would go down with rile sanietime to visit it. ~ie agreed. Then at the last moment caution be~aii to a8sert itself, and I said, When was the last time you saw the cabin? He reflected a moment; then he said, Waal, I giese it was a little more an fifty years ago. I lost my enthu8ia~. Reeves told the Phill..le..me york story which waa told by ktstin I~n :~ar~el1.~ You will find it in his etor~v. The only difference between his story and Parnell s is that Reeves had the conclusion. He claimed that the old. ~aater got in a fight with one of the slaves present and yelled out hie identity when he was getting hadly beaten. The story sounds like it C~ from the Arkansa8 folklore collection or from someone who contributed it to that collection.

037 032

iO, 32 An aftermath of Reeves story is finding out that most people consider henry Banne~ whose story has been previoualy given and whose ag~ was given as eighty-nine, is considered by many persons to b. ninety-tour. 1~~eely, one or the adult sohool. teachers, says that he has gone over Bann s life carefully with him, and that he must have been twenty-one or twenty-two at the close or the War because during slavery, he had experience at logging, or rather at logrolling, a work so difficult that only tuU.~ grown men were used at it. Since Banner is slightly built, there is scarcely a pOs ibility that he did such work before the normal time. .~\ c1~ ~ ~ o 7 f c ~ o r ~ ~ ru ~w t~+~L v ~cZL

[Interview with Rigger, Charlie] 044 039

39 ~_ ~ ~ #675 ~te~iewer~~ . -~.-. ~isaIrene,RobeFtao~~. ~ Person interviewed ~ ~ RJ.D. three miles Palest lue Arkansas ~ p ~u~ doesn t know a~e ~-~ ~ ~ ~ I was born six ralles from ~ountice11ar close to the line of Mcrgan and Jasper County. Mother belong to the &iiths. Her father was part Creek (Indian). They all was sold to floyd. Malone. His wife was Betsy Malone. They had five children. When I was a child I lay under the loom day after day picking up the sickle. Ma was a cook and a weaver too. Malone was a good man but his wife was one of em. She was a terrible of humanity. Father was a tarin hand. They had a gin, a shoe shop, blacksmith shop all on. Floyd Malone s place. I picked a little cotton mancipation. Ytoyd Malone had to 1~y my mother to git her where my rather was~ Some of the boys wore dresses till they was old. One fellar rode a mule or cow one the other sit talking to his gal at the window a steer come dress tail. Boys got to courting before they got shirts~ didn t whoop her. They promised her a ~hOoPin . too but I never knowed em to whoop my father. When they whoop my mother I d ru~n off to place we lived and crawl under the house. twelve or fifteen years to preaching. While he up and et oft his to take off their long They wasn t so good to mother. She run off one and one-half miles to her mother on the several times. Compton place. She went They They whooped her and

045 040

2. 40 Ne chullun had nothing to do wid coffee. We drunk milk out little bowls. We d turn it up or lap it out wi~icii one could do the best ~ They fed ug. TIe d ask for more till we got filed up. I recollect the soldiers cc~ by in Jb. .y 1863 or 1864 and back in December~ I heard talk so long fore they got there I knowed who they waa. They took my oldest brother. He didn t want to go. We never heard from him. He never come back. My white master hid out, He didn t go to ware One son went and co~ back. It was the Yankeea made my olde8t brother go. The firat crowd in 3~uly swapped their wore-out scrub stock for our good stock. That second crowd cleaned them out, took oui hogs. Mies Betty had died fore they come in ~u1y. That second crowd come in December. They cleaned out everything to eat and wear. They eat the house fire several times with paper and coal oil (kerosene). It went out every tii~. One told the captain. He come up behind. It went out every tine He said, Le s move on. They left it clean and bare. We didn t like them. We had meat hid In the cellar. We got hungry that spring sure as you born. The old man married pretty soon after freedom. He married young to what he wasp I didn t find nuich tault to slavery cepting the abuse. We et three times a day and now if I get one piece I do well. Mother cooked, washed, ironed and spun four cats a day. We all et at the master s kitchen three ti.riies a day. We had thirty.4wo families, I ve heard that ag~ j~j time and a~ 1n so as I recollect it till now. We didn t have to work no harder en we do now if you have a living. Master waited till a . . there He had a horn made sorter like a bu,~1e for that business. Called us to our D1$&1.8. We sta~red a 7ear.

046 041

3. 41 Went to his brother s one year, then to Major Lane s big farm. We had to work about the saine as b tore freedom. Not naioh change, The Ku~ Klux cotre round right smart Soma had on skin coverings, cow heads and horns. Son~ wore white sheets and black dresses on white horses. They was scary looking, They would whoop and kil . too. I was too scared to get caught off at night. Mother died. I was traveling about. I spent thirteen months in Mississippi. Three winters right in Memphis. I married in Mississippi. I left two daughters in Georgia. My wits died. I come to Arkansas in 1902, I live all alone. This present generation is traveling too fast. It~is 4o-be. Paaj traveling and education, Times not good as it always have been b fore that last war (World ar. Then the white folks start jowing we black folks suffers. It ain t a bit our fault. education causes the black man to see he Is bit (cheated) but he better not say a word. It very good thing if it is used right. Fast traveling is ai . right in its place. Rit too many is traveling and they all want to be going. We got into pretty fast tiu~ of it flow. It-~is~to be and it s getting shoved on faster,~

[Interview with Rigley, Ida] 047 042

:30806 42 Interviewer -. *-.- - )4~iss Irene Hobertaon Person interviewed Ida Ri~ej~ Forrest City, Arkansas Age~ UI was born in Richmond, Virginia, Colonel RadThrd and Emnia Radford o aned my mother. They had a older girl, &itna and Betty and three boys. I called her Miss Betty. My mother was Sylvia Jones and she had rive children. Bill J~ones was ~y father, He was a born free man and a blacksmith at L~rnchburg, Virginia in slavery times. He asked Colonel Radford could he come to see my mama and carry her, They had a wedding in Colonel Rad~ord s dining room and a preacher on the 2lace married them, They told Ins. My father was a Presbyterian preacher. I heard papa preach at Lynchburg, He had a white principle but no white blood. I never knew him very much till long after freedom. Miss Betty Radford was raising me for a house girl. I was younger than her children. Mother was a weaver for all on the place. Old Aunt Caroline was the regular cook but my mother helped to cook for hands he hIred at busy seasons of the year. My sisters lived In the quarters and r~~r~a slept with then. She helped them. They worked in the field some, Thoy was careful not to overwork young hands, They cooked down at the quarters, They had a real old man and woman to set about and see after the Children and feed them. The older children looked after the babies, Then ~ Betty went off vi siting she would send me down there I did. love it.

048 043

2. 43 Emma and Betty went to school at Riobmond in a buggy. They had a colored boy driver. He was the carriage driver, Emma and Betty would play with irie too . Miss Betty fed me all the t line, She made me a bonnet and. I can t ~et shed of my bonnet yet. I got four bonnets now, When the white folks had a wedding it lasted a week. They had. a second day dresa and a third day dress and had suppers and dinner recep tions about among the kin. folks, They had big chests full of quilts and coverlets and counterpanes they been packing back, Some of them would have big dances. A wedding would last a week, ni~t and day. They had a fana right. We had peacocks, white guinea and bi~ black tur:~eys, cows, sheep, goats, hogs; he had deer. He kept their horns cut off and some of the cow s horns were off4 We had a acre in a garden and had roses and all kinds of flowers, I like flowers now. Tries to have em, Th ~:r bad a gin on the place. He raised corn, rye, cotton, and tobacco, The hands ~ot their sapplies on. Saturday. On rainy days ai . the women would knIt, white and colored both. Miss Betty knitted sane at night in winter. Th~~ had a shop to sharpen and keep all the tools in, A particular old man i~de the brooms and rakes, It seera like there wasn t so many flies. Miss Betty mixed up molasses and flour and poison end killed flies sometimes. She spread it on brown pa )er~ We had fly weed tea to set about too sometimes. We didn t have to use anything regular, We didn t have no screens, We had mighty few r~LO~~Uitoes. We had peafowl fly brushes. They was mighty pretty. One thing we had was a deep walled well and an ice-house. They cut ice in blocks and put it UP for wint~r~ We had one sPring on the place I know,

049 044

44 They kept ~ hounds. Colonel Radford s boys and the e olored boys ail went hunting. We had possum and potatoes all alone in winter; possum greasa ~~on t make you sick. ~at all you want. I d hear their horn and the do~s~ They would come in hungry every time. I never seen no whiskey. He had his eider and vinegar press and made wine. We had cider and wine all aTLong~ Colonel Radford was his own overseer and Charlie his oldest boy. They whooped mighty little. They would stand up and be whooped. Some of th~3 3rOUfl~ ones was hard-.theaded and rude He advised them and they minded him p:etty well. Our yards was large arid beautiful; s~ae had grass and some clean spots about in the shade. Friday was wash day. Saturday was iron day. hiss Betty would go about in the quarters to see if the houses was scrubbed every week after washing, They had to wear clean clothes and have clean beds about her place, She d shame them to death. Colonel Radford had a colored church for us all, It was a log house and he had a office for his boys to read and write and smoke cob pipes in, r~ ~ihite folks church was at the corner of his place, I went there most. :ri~ey shouted and pat their hands, Colonel Radford was a Baptist, ~ Nearly every farm had a fiddler, ~ver so often he had a b1~ dance in t:ieir p~r~or. I d. try to dance by myself. He had his own music by the b~i~d~ Ofl his place. He let them have dances at the quarters every now and 1;j~~fl~ Dancing was a piece of his religion. I don t think our everyday frocks was stiffened but our dress up cLothes was, It was made out of f1our-~boiled flour starch. We had striped ~re~ses and stockings too. We had checked dresses. We had goobers and a (~Lestnut grove. ~e had a huckleberry patch. We had maple sugar to eat0

050 045

4. 45 It was good. We had popcorn and chinqyiapina in the fall of the year. I used to pick up chips to use at the pot. I had a little basket, I picked up corn cobs. They burnt them end made corn. cob soda to use in the bread and cakes, We parched peeled sweet potatoes slice thin and. made coffee, The Civil War was terrible. One morning before we was all out of bed the Yankees czae0 It was about daylight. He and the three boys were there. They didn t btu n any houses and they didn t hesitate but they took everything. They took all Miss Betty s nice silverware, They took fine quilts and feather beds. That was in the fall of the year. They drove off a line of our slaves (a block long) fer as fr i.me to that railroad, Made them go. They walked fast in front of the cavalrymen. They took mama and my sisters. She got away froan them with her girls and found her way back to papa at Lynohburg. Colonel Radford went and took acme of the slave men and his boys. They brought hoene plenty beds and a barrel of salt He brought back ;lent3r. He sent his slave xr~n to town any time. They had no notion leaving, One t line s~ae Yankee s cori~ . I run hid around M188 Betty s long dre sa. She was crying. They was pulling her rings off her fingers. I told them to quit that. One of the mean things said, Little nigger, I shoot your head f They took all her nice clothes. They said they took all niggera. I sassed them, They went tU another t~O fl~ I Shot under Mies Betty s big skirt, They looked about for me but they thought I run oft to my mama. She ~1ias gone but they didu t know it. I seen my best times then. We had a good time there, Miss Betty was good and kind to me. Good as I wanted, I wiah I had that good now,

051 046

5. 41~ Fi~ eedcm J!h6 soldiers e~ae and I knowed it wa~ the Yankees I hated. They took all they could find and wasted a lot of jt~ I was ecare~, i kept hid about. The slaves put their beds and elothe8 up on the wagons and ~nt off behind them and soxr~e dumb up in the wagons. I heard Miss Betty say, They need not follow thorn off, they are already free. The way she 8ald it, like she was heart broken, made rae nearly cry and I remember her very words till this day0 She was a good w~na~ Mama come and got me long time after that and. I cUdri t want to go nor stay neither, It was like taking me off from my own hoene. Papa was freeborn and freedom I couldn t understand till I was long grown. I never ~ot a whooping in xriy life ~ I was taught politeness, During slavery we bought mighty littles Flour in barrels, salt, We had naple sugar and sorghum mola8ses in bounty. We was happy and had plenty to eat and wear, t, I learned to make the fine cakes from a J~ew woman (Tewess ) Mrs. Isaac. I ve been called a cook here in Forrest City, I was taught by Mrs. Isa~ic to make angel food, coffee eake, white bread. and white cakes, Frcm that I made the other kinds ray own self. Interviewer s Gc~riient People in Forrest City send for Ida and keep her a week or two baking Ch~j straas and wedding cake s,

[Interview with Ritchie, Milton] 052 047

I Intel v~.easr Mias I~neRo~ber~eon P~rsc n Interviewed Milto~I&~io~is LLD., Brin)r1.ey,~ Arkansas .~tge? I w~ s t~orn in Marietta Hotel at Marietta, ~orgia. The hotel belong to .~iiton ~tevex:~a. He had two sous. One died fo I was born and Pink was in. ~1e wa~. ~tres8 Thursday was old master s wit,. We all had to refugee. i~i~ sister w~ down In the bottcma with all the slaves and cattle when she Jie~~i~ j:the tcok sick and died suddenly. They he ~rd the soldiers was coming to ~ ~tiaLta aLd knowed they would ccme by Mariett&, Moster Stevens sold. the L~otei j~st ~t the beginning of the war. He moved to the country. Mania cco:~:ea ~t the hotel and in the country both. The hotel was a brick houas on the railroad where they fed a lot of people e!sry day. Moater Milton ~ tQ t~.ke tflB bout where he went, rode me on hfs foot when I was a baby, :~er t:r~Y ~it to the farn every evening Mistreis Thursday come get me, t.E~e me tc tM house. She got bread and ~tter, sugar, give it to me and I s1e2 t ()i~ e paLlet in her room. I never did know ~ why she done that ~ a littLe house she slept in. She cooked, They never whooped me. They iLe~r ~i)~ocp~ marrie. ~ne tj~ the Federal army camped not a ~rsat ways from us. One t ime I ~ ~)J~Vj~ jfl a gully ~ big red ditch. ~ I spied the Federals coming. I i1c~ ~ t 2e t~itoh ttp the hill and across the ~ie~ld, They was calvary men c.::apotl b~: C1~ o t our field. We all left that plac and refttgeed to another ;~ ~ ~ Th~3y d tdn t ~rn the hou~ae but they sent ~bwo bullets through the ~i1~ o:Lb t 1~at houas. t Old Granny was too old to reftgee. &e kept living

053 048

2. 48 by herself in a house on the place. They never bothered. her. She wasn t kin to us but Moater Milton owned her and kept her fed, We raised sugar cane, hogs, corn, and goobers. The sugar-cane had no top. I got a, whoop-i ing every Monday. Mama whoop me. We go drink sugar .~cane juice in the trough at the mill. We got up in. there with our feet. They had to wash out the trougiis, it was a wood house. It was a big mill. He sold that good syrtip in Atlanta. It wasn t sor~hwu. The men at the mill would scare us but we hid around. They come up to the house and tell on us. We had moved from the farm when they birned Atlanta. From the place where Ivioster Milton rei\~geed I could hear a roaring all the time r~early9 sometimes clearer, and the roaring was broke sometimes. ~ Moster Milton run the farm when he run the hotel cept I was born at the hotel and Mistress Thursday lived there then too. He had all Negro overseers, each overseer had a certain lot of hands to do what he told them. He didn t have no trouble He told them if they made something for thorn and him too it would be fine, if they didn t work they would have to do without, They had plenty they said. My mama was sold on the block in Virginia when she was twelve years old. She and her little brother sold the same day. Moster Milton Stevens bought her. The same man couldn t buy them both, didn t have money enough. They had a little blanket and she and her brother cut it into and iut it around their shoulders. They been sleeping together and Moster Milton brought her home on his horse up behind him. Her mama was cr~ing when she left here She never heard nor seen none of her folks no more she told me. (The old Negro cried.) My mama and papa was dark but both was mixed. They never told me j~ it was white or Indien. Papa was a taIl, big bony men.

054 049

. 3. 49 Mama wasn t so big and stouter. ae never tried to get away fr i his owners. He belong to Sam Ritchie five or six mils, away. I never heard much about them. They had Negro overseers. Papa was a fcxremen, He tanned the cow hides and made shoes for all the hands on. Ritchie s place, He made our shoes over there too. They said Stevens and Ritchies didn t keep bad dogs. Mistress ~liza Ritchie was a Stevens before she married. Papa never was sold. He said they was good to them. Mama was nwned Eliza too and papa George Ritchie. When freedom was on. papa went to Atlanta and got transportation to Chattanooga. I don t know why. He met me and meine. She picked me up and ru.n away and met him. We went in a freight box. It had been a soldier s hams ~ great big house. We et on the first story out of tin pans. We had ~Nhite beans or peas, crackers and coffee, Meat and wheat and cornbread we never ~raelt at that place. S ~ebody ask him how we got there and he showed thera a ticket froeti the Freedrnans bureau in Atlanta. He showed that on the train every now and then. Upstairs they brought out a stack of wool blankets and started the rows of beds. each man took his three as he was nunibered. every night the same one got his own blankets. The ro~ was full of beds and white guards with a guii over his shoulder guarded them all night 1on~. We stayed there a long tine nearly a year. They tried to get jobs fast as they could and push ~n out but it was slow work. Mama got a pla e to cook at ~ Mrs. Crutchfield s. She nm a hotel in tom but lived in the Country. We stayed there about a year. Papa was hired somewhere else there. Papa got us on a fana in middle Tennessee after that. We come to Mr. Hooper s place and share cropped one Year, then we went to share crop for ~eL1s Brothers close to Murfreesboro, I been on the farm all my life since then,

055 050

4. 5( ) The Ku Klux never pestered ue. I heard about them, The Welfare help8 me and I would do work if I could get work I can do. I could do light work, Times is herd. Hard. to ~et a living. I don t mind work. I oouldn t do a day s work now. The young generation is beyond me. I d on t be about them much.

[Interview with Robinson, Augustus] 060 055

55 5g~ InterviOWOr~~ Saua~e1S.Ta~1or Person interviewed~ ~ Rob~ixia~op~ 2500 W. Tenth street, Little Rock, Arkansas ~ I was born in Gaihoun County, Arkansas in 1860, January 15th. 1 a~n go i~ according to what my daddy told me and nothing else. That is all I could do. How the ~huldren Were Fed My grandmother on ray mother s si de said when I was a little fellow. that she was a cook and that she would bring stuff up to the cabin where the little ni~gers were locked up and feed them through ~ the crack. She would hide it underneath her apron. ~3he wasn t supposed to do it. All the little nig~ers were kept In one house when the old folks were working in the field. There were six or seven of us. Sold My daddy was a white maxi, my master. His wife was so mean to rue that ray master sold rae to keep her from beating me and. kicking me and knocking me M4 dc~d~ round. She would have killed rae it she could have got the chance. ~ sold r~ie to a preacher who raised rae as though I were his own son. Whenever he sEit down to the table to eat, I sat down. He made no difference at all, He raised me in ~l Dorado, Arkansas. His name was James Goodwin. He sent me to school too. ~

061 056

2. 56 ~ ~ ~: ~ . Visited by Father )~ . t . ~ ~ ~ - ~ ~ When Harri son and Cleveland ran for President my father caine to Little Rook. Some colored people had been killed in the campaign fights, and he had. been eunmioned to Little Hock to make some statements in connec- tion with the trouble. He stopped at a prominent hotel and had rae to come to see him. When I went up to the hotel to meet him, there were a dozen or more white men at that place. when I shook hands with him, he said, I Gentlemen, he s .a little shady but he s my son. His name was Captain I. T. Robinson.. He lived in Lisbon, Arkansas,~ . Mother My xaother s naine was Frances Goodwin. ~he belonged to Captain Robinson. I don t know but I thi k that when they came to Arkansas, they came from Georgia. They were refugees When the War started people that owned niggers ran from state to state to try to hold their niggera. House I lived right in the yard. We had tour houses in the yard and three of them v~as made of logs and one was made out o f one~by-twe1ve planks. I lived in the one made out of planks. It had one big room. I reckon it was about twenty by fifteen, more than that, I reckon. It was a big room. There two doors and no windows. We had old candlesticks for lights. We had old homemade tables. All food was kept in the smokehouse and the pantry. The food house and the . ~iokehouse were two of the log cabins in the yard. Schooling ~ He had a teacher to come right on the place and Stay there teaching. He raised me and brought me up just as though I was his Ow~ child,

062 057

3. I remember getting one whipping. I didn t get lt from Mr. Goodwiu though. Eis brother gave it to me. His brother sent rae to get a hor3e. An old hound was 1ayin~ in the way on the saddle and the bridle ~ He wouldn t move so I picked up the bridle and hit hirn with it. He hollered and maater s brother heard him and gave me a whipping. That is the only whipping I ever ~ot when I was small. Ku Klux 1?1 heard of the Ku Klux Klan but I don t know that I ever seen theni. I never noticed what effect they had on the colored people. I just. heard people ta1kin~ about the~n. s Occupational ~xperieneea The first work I did was farming.. after the War. I farmed --~down close to El Dorado, about six miles away from there. I kept that up till I was about seventeen or eighteen years old or sorriewheres about there. That was on ~Tarries Goodwin 8 place-~mny last master, the man who raised me. Then I left hirn and came to Little Rock. I don t remember in what year, I went to school here in Little Rock. I had already had some schooling. My grand~ mother sent me. The school I went to was called the Union school. It was down on Sixth street. A1~ter I left there, I went to Capitol Hill School. I was going to school during the Brooks Baxter War~ The statehouse was on Liarkhen~ Street and Center. My grandmother e naxae was Celie Robinson. She went by the naine of her owner. After I had gone to school several years -I don t remember just how many.--~I worked down town about ten or eleven years. Then I went to railroading. First I was with the Iron Mountain and Southern,

063 058

4. 58 Later, it changed its name to the Misaouri Pac1~ic. I worked for them fr i 1891 to 1935. On August 29th I received my last pay check. I have tried ever since to get my railroad pension to which my years ot ervioe entitle rae but have been unable to ~et it. The law concerning the pension seems to have passed on the same day I received ray last check, and although I worked for forty four years and gave entire satisfaction, there has been a disposition to keep nie from the pension. While in service I had my jaw bz oken in two pieces and four front teeth knocked out by a piece or flying steel0 !Another man was handling the steam haitmier. I was standing at my regular place doing my regular work. when that happened, I was cut down like a weeds There wasn t a man ever thought they would see me in that job again after that piece of steel cut me down. Also, I lost my right eye in the service when a hot cinder from the furnace flew in it while I was doing my regular work. Then I was ruptured because of the handling of heavy pieces of iron at my work, I still wear the truss. You can see the places where my jaw was broke and you can see where r~y teeth were knocked out0 Out o~ aU the ups and downs, I stuck to the company just the saine unt il they retired rae in 1935 because of old age The ret irement board ;7anted to know when I asked for a pen8ion~ ~1iy did I think I was entitled to a pension? I told them bec~ise I had been injured through service with the COmpany and had hon~rab1y finished so long a period of service. It is now admitted that I ani eligible to a railroad pension but there seems to still be a delay in paying it for some reason or other.

064 059

5. Support Now I ~et a little as8istance from the Welfare, a~id I get some connnodities. If it wasn t for that, I would be broke up. * ~ ~ w~t~ ~ j~i~74,

[Interview with Robinson, Tom] 066 061

30329 . . 61 lut ervie~A er ~arv~ D . Eudgins Person. Interviewed ToniRo~binsOn . Aged~ 88 Home _~ Lives~~thhissonon outa~irtsof Hot ~prin1gs *************** **************** 4Ls I entered~ GoldstelriGrade 3ohooi for co:~.ored I passed an old fe11o~ sitting on the sidewa1k~ There vvas somthin~ of that venerable, dignified, I ve~ been~a-s1ave look about hifi, so rauch of it that I aixaost stopped to question hua. Inside I enteaed a classroom. iNhere a young woman was in conference i~ith a couple of sheepish youngsters who had been kept in after school. Did she knov~ the where~abouts of any ei~slaves ? She beamed, Only the other day an old. man had appeared on the school ~ounds. She appealed to her charges Didn t they remember that she had told them about him an~d about what slavery had. nieant. Sheepish looks were gone. They were ago.~ with interests Yes tUDI, they remembered.. But none of the three knev his manie or where to find hiDI~

067 062

1 ~Th 2 Another teacher entered the rooxri. No, she couldn t rexuomber the nariie. But the old iaaxi orten came up to watch the children at play. He said. it made hirn. happy to see them ~ett1ng opportunities he never could have had. Wait a minute~~he nii~t be outside at this very nioment. clatter of heels and calls of triumph. Yesi Yes~ here he ist . (?) Outside I dashed to drop fl&tonthesidswalk beside the aced man I had. passed a fey; minutes before. Out c~nie my smile and. a notebook. With only a Levi preliminaries and amenities the interviev; was in full swine. It neither startled nor confused hin. to have an excited young V~Ojfl&fl plant berseif on a pu1~iic sidei~~~alk at his side and deniand his life s story. ~. man v~iho had belonged to three different masters before the a~e of 15 v~as inured to minor surprises. Toni Robinson long since learned to toke life as it ceme~ He is quite deaf in one ear and hears poorly with the other. Nobody v~ithin a quarter of s. block could have been in doubt of what v~as ~o~ng on. A youth moved closer. The kept~after-school pair emer~ed from the building

068 063

3 63 aM stood near us, gogg1e-~eyed thruout the interview. when we were finished, Robinson turned to the ehiithex~ and ~eve them. a grandfatherly lecture about taking adirantage of their opportunities, a lecture in ~whic1i the white v~oman sittirigbeside him. joined heati1y.~-~-~ drav~ing liberally on comments of ex-~siaves in. recent interviews concerning the helplessness felt in not being able to write and read. letters from v~ie1l loved friends,

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64 Where was I born, matam ? Wi~iy itts my understanding that it was Catawba c~ounty, North. Carolina. As far a~ I remeiaber, Newton ~vas the nearest town. . I was born on a place be1ongin~ to ~Taoob Signians. I can. just barely remember my mother. I was not 11 when. they sold zne away from her. I can just barely Sernember her. \ But I do remem~ber hOW she used to take us chi~dren and knee.1 down in front of the fireplace and pray. She ~d Dray thet the tinie would eoine when. everybody could worship the Lord under their own vine e.nd fig tree-~--~-aI1 of them free. It ~s come to nie lots of times since. There she was a praying, and on other plantations wonien was a praying. ~ai over the country the sanie prayer was bein prayed. Guess the Lord. done he~rcl the prayer and answered~ it, \\ Old mau $igrnens wasn t a bad niaster. Don t. reniexii.ber so much about him~, I oou1dE~tt have been 11 when he sold. me to Pinkney Setzer. He kept nie for e. little while and then. he sold. xue to David Robins n.~ All three of thexn IlTed. not so f ar cpal~1t ta North. ~ro11ua. But pretty soon after he bought me Old nie~n Dave Robinson moved to Texas. We Was there ~vhen the \~)i.r started~. We stayed there all duriri~ the war, I was set rree there. ~

070 065

rom Robinson 5 65~ ~ We lived in Cass c~ounty. It was pretty alose to the j~kansas border, and ttwasn?t far from Ok1ahoma-~-~s j s now I remember ~w eli when they w e s f jr st. gathering them up for the war. We used to hear the camion often. ~as I afraid ? To be sure I ~as scared, right~ .a~ fire t. Pretty soon we ~ot used to it. Somebody even made up a song, Listen to the ~ome~nade Tti~under. ~ They d sine it every time the cannon started roarin~ \\ No, ma arn. there never was any f.~ ghting r&ght around us. i: never really saw any fighting. Old man Dave Robinson was good to me. ae didn t have a big f arm~---~ just ov~ned me. Treated nie almost like I ~was one of his own children. Course, I had to work. Soinetinies he whipped x~ie- -but no more than lie had. to. I v~as just a child and any child has got to be made to mind, He was good to me, and old Mies wcs good to me. ~1l my masters ~as pretty good. to rr1e.~..~1ots better than the usual run, ~(hioh one I like the best. ~el1, you might know~I kept the name Robinson, and I named ray sOll Dave. You might know v~hich one I think the most of, \~:~one day I was out mi1kin~ the eov~s, Mr. Dave come ~oi,3n into the field, and he had a paper in his hand. Listen to me, Tom, he said, listen to v~hat I reads you. ~ i~ r e ~: ~ ft oui a ~ p ap er al I ab out how I wa s fr ee ~ You cant ~ tell

071 066

T o~ Robinson 6 66 how I felt. You re jokin me, t I seys~ t ~0, I ain t, says he~ tyoutr.e free, tJ~0,t says I, tltt5 a joke. NO, says he, ~ it s ~ law that I Got to read. this paper to you. Now listen while I read it again. ~ But still I wouldn t believe hirn~ ~Tust ~o up to the house, says he, tand askMrs. Robinson~ She ll tell you.t 30 1 went. It .s a joke, I scys to her. Did you ever know your master to tell you a lie .? she says. No, says I, I aintt0t Well, she S~EIyS, the w~x~ s ov r and. youtre free. \\ By that time thought niayb.e she was telling inc v~i:at ~ as ri~t. Miss ~ says I, t can I go over to see the Sra1ths~ ~-~they was a colored family thet lived nearby, tDon?t you understand., says she, you re free. You don t have to ask nie what you can. do. Run along child. \\ nd so I ~vent, And do you know why I vvas a!going~ I wanted to find out if they was free too. ( a chuckle and toothy snille) ~ I Just couldn t take it all in. I couldn t believe we v~as all free alike. . .. ~ ~ . . ~ ~4~t Was I happ y ? Law Mi s s You o an . t eke anyth I ng . ~_~o iatter hov~ good you tre~it it -~-4t wants to be free. You can treat it good and feed it good and give it everything it seems to want-~ ~but if you open the cage -~ -lt s happyj

072 067

Toni Robinson ~ . . 7 6~? ~What did I do after the war was over? I farm~ed, I farmed all my life, tu ~ot too old. I stopped three~ four years ago. I lives with my sOn- ~--~Dave Robinson ~ the one I named for my master. How d j d I farm ? Ed I share c rop ? No nia am4 e C sharply as tho reprexpandin~the inquirer for ~i. undeserved insultc) I didn t share crop, except just at first to get a start. i rented, I paid thfrds and fourths, I always rented. I wasntt a share~oropper. * *Socjally and economically sharp distinctions are di~n between the different classes of renters, both by o~ners and tenants themselves. Families whoni ambition and. c rcuiastances have allowed. to accumulate enough surplus to buy farm implenients and have food. for a year ahead look with scorn on fellow farmers who thru inertia or bad luok must be ftirnished food and the wherewithali to ftr~ In tur4, families that heve forged aiieqd sufficiently to be able to pay cash. rent on faims they cultivate look dwn On both of the other ~roups.

073 068

Toni RObiflSOfl~ I 68 \\ It v~as awful hard. going sifter the war. But I ~ot rae a place -~--~had to share-~crop for a year or tv~o. ~ut i ~orked hard. and saved all I could. Pretty soon. I had nie enou~Ii that I could rent. I a1v~ays raised the usual things.-..~cotton and oorn and potatoes and a little truck and that sort of :hin~-~- c1v~iays raised enou~1i to eat for us and the stock-~-~ and then. some cotton for a cash crop. ~ . My first vvife, v:ell it vvas kind of funny I wasn t more than 19. ~he had 11 children. some of them was older than I was. No ma ar~i it wasn t so hard on ~e. They was all old enough to take care of themselves. I lived with that ~oman for 17 years. Ther~ she died. ~ been married five times. Three of xay children are living. One s here~- j-that s Dave. Then there s one. in Texarkana and there s one in Kansas Oitya Two o~ my children s dead. The youngest died. just about last year. All my wives are dead0 . ~ \ ~i,xaost every day I cones up to sit here and watch the children, It does nie good to see em Makes nie feel good all OhJ:r to think about all the fine chance they has to get a good educ&tion. ~SOflfl7~ you hear me ?~ You pay attention toot, sonny. itXIl watching you~ ~you and all the oth3r little boys. You mind. me. You learn all you can. You ought to be so tha~kfu1 you a1lov~i e d to 1 earn that you w ork hard You mind. me sonny ~ When you re grown up, you ll know what I m talking about --~and .know I ift: right, Run along ~onny. No use hangiiig around the school yard too 1ong.* ~ .

[Interview with Rogers, Oscar James] 075 070

IntervieW r~ Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed ~ Arkansas MetJ~ In 70 s I come to dis state In 1885. 1 run oft from my parents back in North Carolina. They was working in a turpentine forest there. When freedom was declared my folks heard bout a place ~here money was easy to make. So they walked from clown close to Charleston up there and carried the children. I was bout nine or ten years old0 I liked the farm so I left the turpentine farm. I got to rambling rouml and finally got to Arkansas. I rim off from my folks cause they kept staying re. I was a child and don t recollect mach bout slavery. I was at the quarters wid all the children. My mother b longed to Bob Plat and my father to a man named Rogers. ~tLy father could get a pass and come to see us every Sunday providin he didn t go nowhere else or stop long the road, He cane early and stay till bedtime. We all run to meet him. He kiss us all in bed when he be leavin . t I heard them say they spected a home and freedom but when the time Come they muster forgot bout home cause they just took the few clothes In bundles and left. Then they had a hard time cause they never thought how freedom would be. They never axed for nothin and they never got nothin . They didn t understand how to hustle lest sai~body tell them what to do next. They did have a hard time and it was cold and rocky up in North Carolina to what they had been used to down close to Charlestons \ ..~ ~1 ~ ~ z~ ~ ~ ~%- ~ ~ (f)

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2. ~i1 when I got out to Arkansas I lIke lt better than any country I seed and I say Itm . stayin here ~ I n ant to go back i~ i married ai~1 djthi t get no money ahead for a long time. Then I had a family of 11 children. Tes fore I married I got to go to school four months close to Cotton Plant, where I married. ~hen I was young I sho could knock off de work. I curmnulated 80 acre s land in Lee County. I paid ~9O0 for it got in de~ and had let it fur bout (~247.50) Two hundred forty.seven and a half dollars. All I ~ot outen it. I had a bad crop and had a little provision bil1~I made on tiras, man agreed to mn me on then took it bout all. Then I still was a strong man an we bought 40 acres 14 mile8 from C tton Plant and I had it 2? years. Then lost it. My second wife owned a house and garden at Wheatley half a mile or so from t own. We live over there Our children all gone She say she cooked and washed and farmed for it. It cost ~l0O.OO. ni could do heap work if I could get it. Old man can t get nuff regular work to cover my house or buy me a ~iit closes, The Government give s i~ e ~lO ~ 00 a month. That s a help out but it t go fir high as Provisions is. Me an the old woman both too feeble to do much hard work. I gets all the odd Jobs the white folks give me. Misses I ain t lazy, I jess gettin old and not able to hold out to do much. Whut I could do tbe~r give it to the young fellows cause they do it in a hurry. 1 used to vote right sxp~a~ t when they needed me to help out. I Voted for Hoover. Don t think lt right theway the men settin round arid deir wives workin fer livin and votin . The women 0811 vote if they went to but I don t think it right, Seems lack the cart in front ob de horse now,

077 072

3,. ~?42 It woulthi t do no more good to vote in the Primary than it do in the General election0 It don t do much good nohow. 9~i~r as :r ever knowed the slaves had no uprisin s9 They thought well enough of their n~stera, ~verybody worked then hard ae they could, The master he worked all time in the shop making things jess like he needed, boards and handles, plows and thinge. MisSU8jVerYbOdY worked hard dem days, both black and white, and that is the reason folks had plenty. The old grandmas done work whut suited them and helped out Now lac .c me, I can t get the right work whut I able to do nuff to keep me livin . It is bad. If times was bad asthey was few years ago all old roiks done been rotten, starved to death, Times is better but they sho ain t all right yet. This young generation livin so fast they stop thinkin They do well to keep livin their selves, They wastes a heap they outer save fur rainy days. They ain t takin no advice from old folks. I don t know whut ~ goiner D~COIfl8 Of them.

[Interview with Rogers, Will Ann] 078 073

~ ~:t tb 73 Interviewer ~ - - ---~--- Mi~ I3!!!~e~ ~ - - - p--w---- Person interviewed WiuA~ gog.r~ RJ,D, ~ Br1r~k1ey, Arkansas A~e~~_~yq _ ~ - ~ ~ ~- ~ - ~ ~ I W~8 born three years after the atimuder. I was born at Fryera Point, Mississippi. The reason I ain t got the exact date ehen I was born, my ma ptit it down in the Bible and the house burned up and every~ . w thing in it burned to ashes0 No main she got somebody what could write real nice to write all the names and ages for her. When nia was a young woman, she said they put her on a block and 501d her. They auctioned her off at Riobmond Virginia. When they sold her, her mother tainted or drapped dead, she never knowed which. ~he wanted to go see her mother lying over there on the ground and the man what bought her wouldn t let her. He just took her on. Drove her off like cattle, I recken. The man what bought her was ~phram Heater. That the last she ever knowed o~ any of her folks. She say he mated em like stock so she had one boy. He livin down here at Helena now. He is Mose Kent He was born around Richmond, Virginia joe lack dat she say. Y~hen it nearly bo~it time for freedom a whole army ot Yankees come by and seed Moue working. They told him lt he co~ go wid them they give him that spotted horse and pair red boots. He crawled up on the horse an was gone wid em for a tact she said. She started right after them, following him. She followed them night and day. She nearly Starved, jesa begged long the road all she could. I heard her say how fast she have to walk to keep on trail ot em and how many nights.

079 074

o ~. ( She say 8on~ nights when they camped ahe would beg round and try to i~i11 Up. ~xt she couldn t get to Moss without them seem her. Then they got to Fryora Point she went au got aim. They jess 1aughe~ and never give him mithin . They left that army fast as they could she say. She married at Fryars Point. She had jes one boy and I had ~our or five sisters. They all dead but me and Mose. He think he bout ninety years old. He come here to see me last year. He sho Is feeble. ~ How come I here? When I was fourteen years old my family heard how fine this State was and moved to Helena. I lived at Moro and Cotton Plant Then, the way I corne here was funny. A man come up there and say a free train was contin to go back to Africa. All who wanted to go could go. My pa sold out bout all we had an we come here lack they say. No train come yet goin to Africa as I seed. My pa give the white ina~n ~5 . 00 to pay fer the train. TomWats~ was one o~ ein too. He was a sorter leader mong em wantin to go back. Well when the day come that the train due to start everybody come to the depot whar the train ~oin~ to stop. There was a big crowd. Yes xnam, dressed up, and a little provisions and clothes fixed up. Jes could take along a little. They say it would be crowded so. We stayed around here a week or two waltin to hear soxaethln or be ready to go. Most everybody stayed prutty close to the depot for two or three days. Yes mem there sho was a crowd ~ a whole big train tall from here sides the other places. I Jes stayed here an been here ever since. The depot agent, he told em he didn t know bout no train going to Africa. The tickets was no good on his trains0

080 075

3. 75 110w 1 owns this place, I ll tell you. A man here bad all dia land round here (Negro town) laid ~ He couldn t ~eii ~ ~ his lots They woulthi t buy his lots. so he got after nie ~ We had made a good crop, so I got up the money and bought this place. One hundred dollars 18 what I give him. . Others then started to aettlin in and about close to my place. I guess it Was $potaells in Virginia what raised her. She say her name was Lizzie Spotseil Johnson. Theii when ~phram Heater bought her they learned her to do about in their house. She cooked and swept and knocked flies and tended to the children. She stayed with em a pretty long time till she run off and went to Fryers Point. She may have told us about the Nat Turner rebellion but I don t remember it. They sung a lot in my mother s time. Seemed lack they was happier than we are somehow. ~ She sung religious songs and one or two field songs. I don t recollect em now. I never did vote. I never cared mithin about it. &me of em round here wouldn t miss votin tor nothin . Lawd me, chile, the times is done run ahead ol me now. I m so fur behind I never expect to catch up. I don t pay no more attention to the yol1n~ ~o1ks, the way they act now, an I do my little dog there. They don t want no advice and I would be afraid I would vise em wrong. When fly children come I tell em you are grown and you knows right from wrong. Do rj~t. That s all I know to say. The way I am supported is my husband gets all the jobs he able to do ~ ~ and the governmint give me W1~ hi~ *10 a month. We haa a little ~arden.~

[Interview with Rooks, William Henry] 081 076

Interviewer~ Mi88I3~eRQbertSOfl Person iuterviewed William Henry Rooks Baptiat preachsr; Brinkley, Arkanaaa Age ~ The slaves didn t spect nothing but freedom. Jes freedom! In Africa they was free as wild animals and then they was so restricted. les put in bondage for no reason at all. No plantations was divided. I was born a slave and, I reniembere right smart how lt waa. My master was J ohn Freeman and his wife s name was Fannie. I to Como, Miseissippi twice a week to get the mail all dunn the It was eight miles. I rcde a pony. If you go to church you have to have a pas8 from the master. The pattyrollers see you and you have to show it to them. It was just a note. If you didn t have it they take or send you home. If they catch you any more without a pass they whip you. They co~ie to the church and in all public places like the police stands around now. They rode around mostly. Sometimes they went in drovea. They would let you go visiting sonietimes and exchange work. Some masters was good and some was mean jess like they are now and some Slaveg good and some bad. That is the waY they are now. Some of the white men had a hundred slaves and had plenty money. The war broke nearly all of thflL The very worse thing I ever knowed aboi.~t it was some white men raised hande to sell like they raise stock now.

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2. 77 It was hard to have your child took ott and never eec or hear tell of it. Meen man buy it and bat it up. ~ of them was drove off to be sold at auction at New Orleans. That wae where BOaS took ths~ cause they could ~st big money for them. I never knowd of a master to ive th slavee a dime when they become free They never promiased them nothing. The Yankeee might have to toll them off. The banda all stayed on John Freeman e place and when it was over he give them the privilege of staying right on in their houses. Some left after awhile and went somewhere they thought they could do better. They didn t have the Ku Klux but it was bout like it what they had. They wore caps shine de coons eye and red caps and red garments. Red symbolize blood reason they wore red. They broke up our preaching. Some folks got killed, Some was old, some young old devilah ones. They was like a drove of ~arments. I guess you be scared. They run the colored folks away from church a lot of times. That was about equalization after the freedom. That was the cause of that. There was uprisings like I m telling you but the colored folks didn t hava nothing to go in a gun if he had one. Thite folks ~*ke them give up a gun. The first votin I done I was workin for young flenry Larson back in Mississippi. lie give my mother $120 a year to cook for his young wife and give her ~hat ehe eat and I workd on his farm. He told me to go vote, it was election day. I ask him how was I going to know how to vote. I could read a little. I couldn t writs. The ballot box was at Pleasant Mount. Ozan set ovr the box. He was a Tenkss.

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3. 78 ~e was the only one kept th box. It waa a wooden box nailed up end a alit in the top. A. E. Eowe and Captain Howe was two sore Yankee white men there watching round all day. Ozan wa. the sheriff at Sardis, Mississippi soon attei the war. Some more colored folke con. up to vote. We stood around and watched. We saw D. Sledge vot ; h oined half of the county. We knowed he voted Democrat no we voted the other ticket so it would be Republican. I voted for President Grant. I don t believe in women voting. They used to have the Australien Ballot System. It i a heap more the man that s elected then it 18 the party. We all voted for Hoover; he was a Rept~blican and foe he got one term Berved out we was about on starvation. I ain t voted since. That President claim to be a Democrat. He ain t no Democrat I do t know what he be. I been farming and preaching. I started preaching in Mississippi. I joined the coneerence in Arkansas in 1886 and started preaching at Surrounded Hill (Biecoe ) I ccme here in 1884 from Pinola County, Mississippi. I had 80m5 stock and they was fencing up everything over there. I had no land so I come to en open country. It wasn t long before they fenced it in. I come to ~inkley and worked tor ~in end Black saiinill and I been here forty ox titty years. I don t know Jens how long. I couldn t starve to death in a whole year hers. The pso~ pie wouldn t let me. I got lot of friends, both black and whites h re. I married December 1?, 1874 in the Baptist church. Glance Wilson was the preacher married me. My wife died here in dis house nine years ago. We had ten children but jes two livin now. MY girl n.rried a preacher and live at Hope, Arkansas. My son preaches in Parson, Kansas.

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4. 79 I auppor~te my own self. I work8 and I preaches a little yot. I saved up some money but lt nearly give out. The young generation, some of them, do mighty bad. Some of them is all right. 3ome of them don t do much and don t save nothing. I OWn8 this house and did own another one what burned down. A. lamp exploded and caught it while I was going off up the road but I never looked back or I would have seen it. It seem lack now it takes more money to do than it ever did in times before, Seems like money is the oiily thing to have and get. Folks gone scottch crazy over money, monsy Both is changing. The white folks, l ut speaking bout, the white folks has changea ~d course the colored folks keeping up wid them. The old white and colored neither can t keep up wid the fast times. I say it e the folks that xnade this depression and it s the folks keeping the de.~ pression. The little tellow is squeezed clear out. It out to be stopped, Folks am t happy like they used to be Course they sung songs all the time. Religious choursea mostly.

[Interview with Ross, Amanda] 085 080

~68O~ 80 Interviewer ~su.ip.m~io~ Person interviewed ~ ~manda Eos~ 8~ 7~ Schiller Stro t, Little Rock, Arkansas ~ge82~ I was nine years old In. the time of the surrender. I know I was here In that time. I don t know nothin bout their carryin on. I know they whipped them with hobble . You don t know wha~t hobble rods is I I 1 Mn t you. seen these here long thin hick ry shoots? They called hobble rods. I don t know why they called em hobble rods. I know they made you hobble. They d put em in the fire and roast em and twist em. I have seen em whip them till the blood r~in down their backs. I ve seen em tie the women j up, strip em naked to their waist and whip em till the blood run down their backs. They had a nigger whipper, too. I was born in Salem, Alabama. I came up here about twenty five years ago. Isaac Adair was the name of the old man who owned ~. He owned my mother and father too, Hester and Scip. Their last nax~e was Adair, the same as their master s, I don t remember the names of my grandfather and grandmother, cause we was crossed up, you see, One of my grandmothers was named Grecie and the other was named Lydia. I don t remember mY gran s naine I BP~ct I Used to call im master. I used to remember them but I don t no mores NObOdy can t wori~ me bout them old tolka now. They ast !fl~ 811 them quea~. ~ tjons at the Welfare ~ They want to know your gran pa and your gran ma. Who were they, what did they do, where did they live, where are they now? I don t know what they did. That s too tar back for me,

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2.~. 81~ My mother and father had nine children. I have only one Buter living, ill the others doue gone to heaven but me and her, My mother and father lived in a log cabin. They had one-legged bedi nailed to the wall. They had benches and boxes arid blocks and all sieh as that :L~or chairs. My daddy made the table we used. He made them one-.legged beds too. They kept the food in boxes and gourds, They had these big gourds. They could cut holes in the top o~ them and put things in them. My rnelffny had a lot of ~ ~ ~ they were nice and cle~i too. Wiaht I had one of them now. Some folks didn t have that good. We had trundle beds for the children that would run under the big bed when they wasn t sleeping in it. We made a straw mattress, You know the white folks weren t goin to let em use cotton, and they didn t have no chickens to git feathers from; so they had to use straw. Oh, they had a hard time l in tellin you. My mother pulled greens out of the garden and field, and cured it up for the mattress. For rations, we d eat onions and. vegetables. We et what was raised. You know they didn t have nothin then cept what they raised. All the cookin was done at one house, but there was two cooks, one for the colored folks and one for the white folks. My grandma cooked for the white people, They cooked in those big old waslipots for the colored people. We all thought we had a pretty good master, We didn t kiiow nothin about a master. I am t positive what time the hands ate breakfast I know they et it and I know they et at the s~e time and place. I think they et after sun~ rise ~ They didn t have to eat before swirl se. When they fed the children, they cook the food and put it in a great big old tray concern and called up the children, Plggee-e-e-e-e, piggee e e.-e...e.

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3.,. ~ 82 My COUSi~~ was the one had to go out an.d call the children; and. you could ~ee them ilIflfllfl U~ from every which way, little shirt tails flyin and hair stjcklflg out. Then they would pour the food out in different vessels till the children could git around them with those ~usole shell spoons. Many of thera as could get round a vessel would eat out of it and when they fini shed that one they d go to another one and then to another one till they all got fed, My master worked seventy hands they said. He had two colored over~ seers and one white one. He didn t allow them overseers to whip and slash them niggera0 They had to whip them right. Didn t allow no pateroles to bother them nei ther. That s a lot of help ~ Cause them pateroles would eat you up. It was awful. Niggers used to run away to keep from bein beat up. I knowed one gal that ran away in the winter time and she went up into the hollow of a tree for protection. When she carne in., she was in sich a bad condition they had to cut off both her legs. They had froze out there~ They taken care of her. They wanted her to work0 She was just as nice a seamstress as you ever saw. And she could do lots of things. She could get about some. She could go on her kn.ees~ She had some pads for them and was just about as high as your waist when she was goin along on her hands and knees, swinging her body between her arms~ Ate im the Big House t?The cooks and my mother stayed in the white folks yard. They weren t in the quarters, ~y mother was seamstress and she was right in the house all the day long sewing. The children like me and my ~ Sister, they used us round the house and yard for whatever we could do.

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4..~ 83 They didn t never whip none of my father ~ children. If we clone something they thought we ought to been whIpped for, they would tell rather to whip us, and 1f he wanted to, ho would; and. if he didn t want to, he wouldn t, They made a big difference for 8OI11~ reasork, . Marriage They married in that time by standing up and letting ~oxneone read the ceremony to them, My master was a Christian, There wasn t no juxapln over a broomstick 0x1 my master s place. The white folks didn t have no nigger preacher for their cliirchea. ~it the colored folks ha.d em. They preached ou~t of these little old Blue ~ck Spellers ~leastways they was little blue back books anyhow, Freedom My folks was on the road refugeeing from Ma~iolia, Arkansaa to Pitt s bur~, Texas when the news came that the colored folks was free. And my master came round and told the niggers they was free as he ~ I didn t hear him. I don t know where I was. I ni sure I was out playin somewherea, Slave Wages and experiences after the War My father worked in a black~nith shop right after the War. Before the War, he went far and neer to work for the white folks, They d risk him with their money and everything, They would give him part of it ~ I don t know how muche He brought money to them, and they suie give him money. We didn t have to wear the things the other slave children had to wears He would order things for his family and my father would do the Sanie for us, When old master made his order, my father would put kie in With it.

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50~ 84 i~aui11y I am the mother of fifteen ch11dren-~ . teii girls arid five boya. That was enough for me I am willing to q~u1t off. My husband is dead. He a been dead for thirty five yeara. Opiniona I don t know what to say about these young people. Mine are pretty good. So, I m fraid to say much about the others. Lord I t know what e 11 do if we don t ~et some rain. Vocational Experiences when I was able I washed and ironed, I didn t have to do nothin till after my father and husband died. Then I washed and ironed and cooked till the white folks set me out. They said I was too old. That is one thing I hate s to think of. They had the privilege to say I couIdn t work; they ought to a seen that I ~ot somethin to live on when I wasn t able to work no more.~ Interviewer s Coi~unent You can t ~et the whole story by reading the words In this interview, You have to hear the tones and the accents, and see the facial expressiona : ~ bodily movements, and sense the sometimes almost occult influence; you ~ have to feel the utter lack of resentment that lies behind the words that Sound veherj~ent when read. You marvel at the quick, smooth cover~up when Soflietiling is to be withheld, at the unexpected vigor of the mind when the bait is ~ttractjve enough to draw it out, and at the sweetness of the disposition,

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6.~ 85 ~oine old. people merely get mellowed and sweetened by the hardships through which they have passed. Sometimes, you wonder if some of the old folk don t have dispos iti ons -that they can turn oft or on at will. It is not hard to realize the reason why Amanda was treated better than other children when you remember that she called her grandpa Master ~

[Interview with Rucker, Landy] 097 092

.~.. ~ ~ .~ ..~. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ .. ~ ~ _~o ~ 92 Iutorview.r~ ~ . ~ Bernice Bowdrni Person 1nterviewed~ Land; Ruoker ~ 2315 W. Fourth Avenue Pine Bluff Arkanaaa Age 83 ~ ni was born in 1854 in the 8tate of Georgia, Elbert County. I member some about the war. I went to the field when I wae twelve. Pulled fodder, picked peas and tended to the cow pen. I had to go then. We had a good master. Our mistress wasn t good ~ though. $he wouldn t give ~ ~- -- -r --- ~ ~- ~ ~ us enough to eat. Old master used to ask if we had enough to eat and he d pull out great big hams and cut em ai . to pieces and give em to u.. Old mistre 88 would cry and say, You re away all my good dinner. ~it she repented since the war. She said she didn t do right. j We got here to Pine Bluff in 61. Oh yes, I remember contin here on the train and on the boat~, Old fltiStleSB whipped us when she tho~xght we needed it. I been pretty good all my lite. My father was a blacksmith and one day when I was six or seven I was takin his dinner when so~ dogs si~lled the dinner and smelled me too and they got after n~. I had to climb a tree and they stayed around till they heard some other dogs barkin and ran off. I conie down then and took my bucket and left. Nother time some hogs chased me. They rooted all around the tree till they heard somethin crackle in the woods and run oft and then I d come down. After the war I went to school three days and the teacher whipped I went home and I didn t go back. I went home and went to the field. I had a mother and a sister and I tried to make a living tor thm.

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2. Q ~ L I went to school a little whil after that and then went to the field. Most I know I learned by myself. Yes m, I seen the Yankees bout a year tore the war ceasted. They come ta ~et somethin to eat and anything else they could get. Got the mules and things and took my two brothers and put em in the war. One come back after surrender and. the other one died, in the war. They said. they was fi htin to free the riiggers from being under bondage. I seen the Ku Klux. Looked like their horses could fly. Made em jump a big high fence They come and took my father and all the other men on the place and was goin to put em in the Confederate army. ~tt papa was old and he cried and old mistress thought a lot of him so they let hirh stay0 I juat lay down and hollered cause they was takin my brothers, but they didn t keep em long. One of my brothers, six years older than me come up here to Pine Bluff to j Ins the Yankees, We could hear the guns at Marks Mill. I been married twice There was about eleven years betwixt the two marriages I worked on the farm till about 85. Then I worked in the planing mill. I ~ot hit by a oar and lt broke my hip so I have to walk on crutches n~ow Then I got me a little shoe shop and I got along fine till I got so I couldn t . set down long enough to fix a pair of shoes. I bought this house and I gets help from the Relief so I m gettin along all right ow.

[Interview with Ruffin, Martha] 099 094

94 Interviewer Person interviewed Age~8O - ~----u ~ s. Taylor -- Martha RUffin ~i~3lO Crosi Stre~ t LIttle Rock, Arkansas - - .~ ~ ~ - - ~ ~ - - ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ - - I was born in North Carolina, and I was seven years old when the Surrender was, every one of my children can tell you. when they was born, but I can t, My mother, Quinettie Farmer was her nari~. Brother Robert Farmer is my cousin. He Is about the saine age as my husband, He got married one week and me and my husband the next My father s naii~ was V ~a1entine Farmer, My grandmother on my mother s side was Mandy Harrison, and ray an s naine on ray mother s side was J ordan Harrison, My grandpa on my father s side was named 1~euben Farnier, and his wife was Nancy 1~arrner. I have seed my grandpa and grandxaa on my father s side ~t my mother didn t see them on my mother s side, I raembera ray daddy s white folks names, Moses Farmer. My father never was sold. My daddy, Valentine Farmer, was a ditcher, shoeniaker, and sometimes a farmer. My mother was a house girl. She washed and ironed. I COUIdn t tell exactly what my grandparenta did. My grandparents, so my p&rents told me, were mostly farmers, I reckon Moses Fanner owned about three hundred slaves. I was born on Robert Bynum s place. He was my mother s owner. He ~1arri-~d one of the Harrison girls and my mother fell to that girl. My :~ctl~r done just about as she pleased. ~e didn t know nothin about workin i:~ i;. .~: neid till after the Surrender, The way my mother and father happened to meet.~my old master hired my deddy tc do some work for hirn and he met my mona that way,

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2. 95 The way my folks learned they was free was, a white school teacher who was ~acbin~ school where we stayed told my mother she was free but not to say nothifl~ about it.~ About three weeks later, the Yankees come through thore ~ud told them they was free and told my old boss that if he wanted theri to work he would have to hire thex~i and pay them. The school4eacher stayed with mother s folks mother ~ white folks. The school~teacher was ~saching white folks, not riiggers0 She was a Yankee, too, My mother was the house girl, and the school~teacher stayed with her folks0 The War was so hot she couldn t ~it no chance to go back home, My daddy famed fter the War, He farmed on shares the first year, The next year, he bought him a horse, Re finally owned his own fanii, Re owned it when he died. He had about one hundred acres of lande t,I have pretty fair health for an old woman like I am. I am bothered wit:~ the rhewnati&a. The Lawd wouldn t let both of us git down at the same tirae0 (Here she refers to her husband who was sick in bed at the time she made the statement, You have his story already, It was difficult for ber to tell her story, for he wanted it to be like his ed,) I belong to the Primitive Baptist Church, I haven t changed my rnerthership frOEn my home. I ~ot married in 1882, in February. How many years is that? I got so I can t count up nothin . ~ itty-~six years, Yes, that s it; that s how 1o~i~ I been married. I had a little sister that got married with me. She dids~ t really ~it married; she ju8t stood up with ma~ She was just a little baby girl. They told ne I was pretty near twenty-three ~O6Z8 old when E r arried. I have a daughter that s been married twenty~five years. We had Oido~ daughters, but that one was the first one married, I have got a daughter over in North Little Rock that is about fifty years old,

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3. 9 ; Her husband is dead ~ We had ten children, My daughter t s the mother of ten hjldT8fl too0 She got married younger than I did~ This girl I ein living with is my baby. I have four children living three girls and one boy0 A woman asked me how marty children I had and I told her threea She waa a fortune+tell r and she wanted to tell me my fortune. But I didn t want her to tell me nothin , God was gittin ready to tell me somethin I didn t want to hear, I ye got rive great-~grandchildren, We don t have no great-P reat-grandchildren9 Don t want none ~ Interviewer a Gominent The old lady s style was kind of er~mped by the presence of her h~b~md0 avery once in a while when she would be about to ~paint something i:~ 1~~rid colors, he would drop in a word and she would roll her phrase a ~I~Dund in her mouth, so to speak, and shift and ~o ahead in a different diroc~ion and on anot1~er ~ ~1ery pleasant couple though.. with none of the bitterness that old age briri~~a aoraetirnes. The daughter s name is Searlea.

[Interview with Ruffin, Thomas] 102 097

3O(i62 Interviewer Samuel S. T~.y1or _____ Person Interviewed. ~ Thomas Ruffiri 1310 CroiiStreet, Littliiioclk, Arkan~as Age82 or 84 I was born In North Carolina, Franklin County, near Raleigh. My father s n~jne really I don t~ know. Folks said. ray rnasler was my dadd~r. That s what they told. rie, Of course, I don t know myself. But then white folks did anything they wanted to in slavery times, tt~T mother s name was Morina Ruffin. I don t know t1~ names of my grand~ parer~ts. That is too far back In slavery for me. Of course, old. man Euff in ~ny fatber s father, which would bave been my grandfather, he died. way back yond.er in slave times before the war. My father gotten kilt in the war. His naine was Torn huffin. I was named after him. He died. trying to hold. us. That n~an owned three hundred slaves. Henever married. Carried my mother round everywhere he went. Out of all his niggers, he didn t have but one with him. That was in slavery time and. he was a fool about her. I couldn t tell you exactly when I was born. Up until the surrender I couldn t tell how old I was. I am sornewheres around eighty~two years old.. The ol d lady ~S just about the same. We g~iesses it in part. We figure it On what we heard the old folks say and things like that I rerr~mber plenty of thir~gs about slavery that I saw. 1 never did mu.chwlen I was a boy. T1~ biggest thing I remember is a a~~1e got to kicking and jumped around in a stall. She lost her ~footing and fell down arid broke her neck right there in the stall. I remember her name as well as if it was yesterday. Her name was Bird. That was just before

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~2~ 98 the war. I know I rrnist have been at least four years old then. You. can fig ure that ~ip ~nc~ see what it comes to. nI never did any work wlen I was a child. I jU8 went to the spring with the yOUfl~ Mistress and danced for them 8ometirnes. :But they never did give me anyworlc to do, lilce they did the others. lived right in the biggest house the biggest portion of my time. That day and. time . they made compost heaps . Mixed dirt wi th manure. They hoed cotton and crops. They didn t know w~iat school was. They helped with washir~ and. ironing. Did. every kind of wrk they had strength enough to do till they got big enough to go to the field. that was ~iat the children ~ien they were about seven years old, to the best of my recollection they would go to the field. Seven or eight. They would pick up corn stalks and brash. And. from that On when they were about eight or nine, they would pick cotton. ;~r mother never did have to do anything round the farm. She lived about seventy-five miles from it, there where the master had his office. ~Ie waS a 1a~yer. After I was born, she d idn t come out to see me but once a year that I recollect. When she did. come, she would bring me some candy or cakes or sO~thin~ like that. I didn t see the soldiers during the time of the war. But I saw plenty of them afterwards riding round and telling the niggers they were fr e. They ~a~i some of the finest saddles I ever seed. You could hear them creaking a blOck off. No, I didfl t see then while they was fighting. Ne were close eno~~ to hear the giuis crash, and we could see the light from them, but I didn t actu.ally see the fightin. The Yankees come thn,ugh on every plantation where they were working and entered into every house and. told us we was free. The

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99 Yankees d~id it. 1~hey told. you. you we re free as they were, that you. didn t have to stay where you. was, that you. didn t have no more master, that you co~i1d go and come as you. pleased.. I got along hard. after I was freed. lt is a hard. matter to tell you. wi~at we could f1E~. or get. We used to dig u.p dirt in the smokehouse and. boil it arid dry it and sift it to get the salt to season oi.ir food with. We ~ised to go out and. get old bones that had been throwed away and crack them open an~ get tbe niarrow and use them to season the greens with. Ju.s plenty of niggers then didn t have wiything but that to eat. ~ ttEven in slavery times, there was plenty of niggers out of them three h~ncired slaves who had to break up old lard gourds and use them for meat. They had to pick up bones off the dung hill and. crack them open to cook with. And then, of course, they d steal. Had to steal. That the bes way to git what they wanted, N They had a great big kitchen for the slaves. they had ~iat you. call pot~acks they could push them big. pots in and oat on. They cooked hog siop there. They had trays and bowls to eat out of that were made out of gum wood. It was a long house used as a kitchen for the hands to go in and. eat. They et inner there and for supper they wrnld be there. But breakfast, they would have to eat in the field. The young niggers ~U1d bring it out to them. They would bring it about &i hour after the sari rose and the slave hands would. e~t it :ight out in the field; that was the breakfast. You see the hands went to the field before sunup, and they didn t get to eat breakfast in the kitchen and it had to be et in the field. Little undergrowth of children they had Plenty of them on the place had. to carry their ~neals to them. (~o\~arc~ ~) . They would usually give them collarsin green times, potatoes in potato time. Bread, ~ they didn t knOw what that was. White folks hardly knew

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lAX) theirselves . They cli dii t have bu~tt r ani t I~y did t ha~ e no s~ar Dl dn t know much about what meat waa yet. They ~uii give the little bits o chlldrei pot liquor. mat s t~ie most i ever sed them git. Of com se i was treat ed di iferent ly. You~ e ud. t judge than by me I was t 1~ only hal ~-white young WI round t~ re and. ~ they sau. I was half brother to cd ~ Ma s chillun. Axit the white chilien would git me u.p to the house to dance for them ~nd all like, and they would give me biscu.its or ax~ything good they had. I never seed. the ot1~ers eatin nothin ~t pot liquor. Mos t of t he si ave s I ive d I ri log is. You know th ~ never had. but one door. In general where they had large f~ilies, they woui.d ha e ti rooms with a chimney in the middle of the house. The chimney was bull-i oat of mud and straw. I can remember them sawin the timber. Pv~ pulled . a big ol crosscut saw. Didn t have rio saw mills then. This world has co~ from a long ways. They u.sed to didn t have no plows. It was without form. You made it at home. They had ol homemade bedsteads to sleep in. They had a little rope that run back and forth instead of slats. That was called a corded bed. Cheers were all made at home aid were split bottoms. Th ~ dn t many of l2ie s lave s ha ye foo d in the ir homes Thxt when they did., t hey would ju.s have a li ttle wooden box and they i~ uld put the! r food in flIt seems like t1~ i~iite people got to burying their money du~rix~ the time of the war. That never come out till after the war. Then they got to wantin that money and started looking for it There ~ v r was any talk o f buried treasure before the war. ~ i~r folks didn t give me aziy schoolin before tI~ surrender. I r~ver got any oefo re the surrender and. a might y li tt le afterwards . NO nigger knowed. anythi~, I started to farming when I was thirteen years old.. I used to be

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a fertilizer, and. then a cotton sower. That was the biggest I knowed about farming when I was a bo7. My mother lived about fifteen ~ ears after slavery. I reckon. In the tinie of slavery, you couldn t marry a wo~nan. Toujust took up with I~er. Mother married the saine man she had. been going with after freedom. She had foui children after the surrender as fer as I can tell ti~ree girls and two boys. I moved from North Carolina to Louisiana. Stayed there one year and then moved. he re. Bought forty acres ~ of land. Bought it after I d been her e a year. It took me four years to pay for that !Phen next t ime I bought eighty acres ~ and paid for them. Paid them out in two years. Then I bought eighty acres awre and paid for them in two years. Couldn t pay for them cash at first, but could have paid for the last eighty when I bought them if I had a wanted to. Then I bought e Ighty tao re and then I bought eighty again and then ~ for ty and on till I had. five hundred and three acres of farm land. I go~ the three over when I got the sorghum mill. . I left my farm and come t o t he ci ty for do eto t s tre atment My o id lady and I worked out five hundred and three acres of land. I got five children living. I gave each one of them forty acres ofland. Most of the rest I sold.. I got a fellow here that owes me for one of the places now. He lives over on Third and Denrilson. His name is Wright. My old lady an me held on to that anddi4n t lose it even th all these.hard years. . My daughter kept after me to come here and sIze built this little house out here where I could holler or do anything I wanted to do and not disturb nobody. I couldn t feel at home up in a big house with other people. Four or five fllOflth5 ago it would take two people to put me to bed. I would get off from home azid have to carry me back. But I am gettin along fi e now. Th1S high

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102 blood presSU.re keeps me from remiembering ~o well. 01 lady where s my p1pe~ You didn t find. it u.p to ctaLighter 8? Ain t it in the kItchen? Can t ~?ou find. it nowheres? Whut cii&ju ~io with it? Well, you. needn t look for it no longer. It s i-~ex~ in LIly pocket. P1~t s my h~i~h blood. pressure workin. what whut it does to you. I belong to tbe Primitive Baptist Church and have been belonging to it altogether abou.t sixty~three years. .1 used to be a Missionary. I been a member of the church a long time.~ ~ I thin-k times are jus fulfilling the i3ible. The people are wi8er now than we ever known them to be and. wickeder. I don t believe the times you. see now will be always. People are getting so wise and so wicked that I think the end is near at hand. . You. notice the Germans now are trying to riiake slaves out of the Jews. There s the Japans that is jus slaughtering up the Chinese like they was nothin but dumb brutes. The world is wickeder than it ever has been before. The youxig people toda~J. I d hate to tell you. what I do think of them. The business s going to fall.

Untitled Section 108 103

304~53 . 103 Interviewer . Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Cas~erRuin; .e, ~ Va118 Bluff ~4~rkansas A~e ~ I will be, providin the good Lord spare me, 79 yeaTh old the first day of January. I was born in Lawre;ce County, South carolina. The Bi~ road was the dividing line between that and Mgefield County. My mother belonged to J~ohn Griffin. His wife named Rebecca. My father was a Irishman. Course he was a white man ~ Irishman, Show I did know him. He didn t own no slaves. I dont t guess he have any l~.nd. He was a overseer in Edgefield County. His name was ~phi ~~n auinple. ~ hat become of him? He went off to fight the Yankees and took Malaria. fever and died on Red River. I could show you bout where he died~ My mother had a big family. I can t tell you much bout theme I was the younge st She o ooked up at Yohn Griffins. He was a old man and the lend was all his wife s~ Blie was old too. She had some grown ~ir1s. He had no children, They called him Pa und I did. too. I stayed round with him nearly all the time help.iihim ~ He had a room and she had a room~ I slept on. a bed ~ little bed ~ home-.~made bed in the room ~id him and she slept in the room ~iith her two girls and my mother slept in the kitchen a whole heap so ~he be there to get breakfast early. They riz early every ~ornin , John Griffins wife owned four plantations more than 160 acres in each 0fb but I couldn t say how nmch.

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My mother was a field hand in busy times too. Miss Rebecca had all the $laVeS clothes made, She seed to that. She go to the city, Augusta, and bring back bolts cloth. One slave sewed for Miss Rebecca and her family. She d idn t do all the sewing but she sewed all the tirae ~ One woman done all the weavin ~ ~t ni~it after they work in the field Miss Rebecca give ein tasks ~ so niany. bats to card or so mu~ch spinnine to do, Master ;rohn di dn. t want em to work at night but she iiiade em work all the same. They b long to her, Another thing the women had to do was work iii the garden, It was a three acre garden. They always had plenty in thar. Had it p4linged so the young chickens couldn t squeeze through the cracks They had plenty stock and nude aI . the fertilizer needed in the garden and patches. They had. goober patch, popcorn patch, sorghum patches, several of em, pea patches but they was field cabbage patch and watermelon patch. They had chicken house, goose house, duck house and way off a turkey pen. It had a cover on it~ They had to be cleaned and all that manure moved to the garden and patches, Old man 3~ohri Griffin was a good man. Things went on pretty quiet bout the p1aee~ They had to do their own cooking. They got for the grown ups 3 pounds meat, 1 pk. meal a week0 They fed the young chaps plenty so they wouldn t get stunted. They keep e~ chunky till they get old nough to grow up tefl and that make big women and big r~en0 They stunt em then when they start riuinin up, it cause ein to be low. The owners was mighty careeui~ot) to feed the chaps nough to eat so ~ they make strong h~ijd~, 2. 104

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3. Men come long the road peddlin from out the citie8, men come long with drove$ Of horses and mules. They W&8 called hor8e traders4 Then once in a while they come long tradin ~id selling slaves. Nother way they sell eni was at public auction. I~ten a slave steal from another master, like go in his smoke house or crib and steal, the sheri ft have to whip him. They would have pubi le . How d they kuow was freedom? How d they not know it was freedom? Everybody went wild. They was jes crazy cause they was free. Way I knowd for certain it was freedom Mr. 3 ohn Griffin had all the slaves that had~n t done went off come to the house and he told thera they was all free~ Some of em just started walking the roads till they nearly starved. The government didn t start feeding the slave s till so i~any nearly starved, My mother cooked on nearly a year. Then she went to work for VaugI~n In ~dgefield County4 They didn t give thera no land. The white folks was land pores They didn t have no money. When the masters had money they give the slaves a little spending money. Nearly all the slaves had a little money long. They ~t a pass to split rails for a neighbor and make money. That was befo freedom. After freedom nobody had money but the Yankee soldiers. They keep it closer than the folks you been livin with~ Mr. Griffin, he ~as called General by all the young men. He wa$ too old to fig~tt so he trained soldiers. He didn t wear a Unjfo~ but they did. They met certain days every week, They wore cray uniforms4

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They had a battle at Lawrence It was ~ 7 miles, The soldiers passed 1on~ the Big road, I didn t see the battle s . I heard plenty talk about that conflict at Lawrence though. ni heard the slaves was goin to get 40 acres and a mule. I tell you they didn t wait to see if they was coing to get another meal. They went wild, walking and hooping up and. down the road. They found out when they nearly starved they had got the bad end of~ the game some~ how. Then to keep em from starvin they bad certain days to go to Lawrence and get a little rations. Not much I tell you. They started stealin and the Ku Klux started up bout that, The President got killed (Abraham Lincoln). Then they knowed the gig was up, They had to go to work hard as ever and mighty little to eat. The slaves did vote. It was the color of the paper they used way they knowe d how to vote The Repubi ican government had full sway 12 ~ years, All the offices at Edgefield nearly was Negroes cept the sheriff. The Yankees tell em what to do way they knowed how, D~tler went to Gon-~ ~re se . lie was a Negro ( ??? ) That was what the Ku Klux was ruad bout. They run the Yankees out and took holt of the offices soon as they could~ Our master had no Ku Klux comm1 on our place, He protected us, It wasn t no different than slavery till I was nearly grown and a drove was walking going west to better place. I got in with them and Come on0 The Ku Klux had killed several Negroes. That scared them all up. I remember Tuscaloosa, Alabama when we cane through there. We Was walking ~ a line a mile long ~ marching and singing. They was bUj1dj~~ back in a hurry seemed like to me. The town had been burned up. 4. loG

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SoIns dropped out to get work alongs Some fell out sick. Some so weak they died iOfl~ the road, Had to keep ~p. Some stopped; they never caught up no more. Mostly old folks or half starved folks ccnilcln t keep goings The Ku Klux whoop and shoot you down for any little thing. They started at night, fraid. of the Yankees but they whooped and run thera out and the N~groes lefts The Ku Klux got so bold they didn t dress up nor ~o at night neither. At first they was careful then they ~ot bold, The Yankee soldiers bout all they was afraid of, The Negroes found ~)Ut who some of the Ku Klux was and told the Yankees but lt di xi t do much good0 After bout twelve years all the Yankees cone back home~ The white folks down In Carolina thought bout as little of them as Ne groe s . They u~ldn t let them have no land if they did have xaoney to pay any price for it. They didn t want them living amongst them. They say they rather have a Negro family. The biggest Negro uprisin I ever seed was at freedom. They riz up in a hurry, I had to stop and work all along, I got to Arkansas in 1881. 1 never went no further. I been al 1 ray life farmin ~ I cut and sell wood, clear land, The best living was when I fanned and sold wood, I bought a 10 acre farm and cleared it up gradu.ly, then I sold it fer ~l8O.OO Cause I ~ot blind and couldn t see to farm it~ I had a house on it, I own this here house (a splendid home ) ~ My daughter and her husband Corne to take care me. They come from Cincinatti here, She made $15.00 a 4160k up there three years, I get $8.00 a month now from the Social ~e1fare. If I could see I could make money. 5. -~ (~ _Lu j

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6. 108 I never seen tiflle8 like this. Sin is causin it. Unrest and selfishness, No neighborly spirit. I don t bother no young rolks, I don t know how they will come outs n they caint get a big price they won t work and the white folks are doing the ir own work, and don t help ike they dlde I could get along if I could sees I had a light stroke kse~s me from talkin good, I hear that.

[Interview with Russell, Henry] 114 109

~ . ~ ~ Interviewer -- ~ LUCY ~ -. Person interviewed ~ Arkansas ge~ ~ My rather s ~ was Ed Russell, and he wa~ owned by Dr. Torn Russell, de first pioneer settler of Russellville ~de man de town got its name from. My name is Henry, and some folks call me Rud. I was born at Old Dwight de 28th of October, 1866. Yes 8th, dat date is correct. I was too young to r~n~iber much about happenin s soon after de War, but I kin ricollect my father belongin to de xnilit la for awhile during de Reconstruction days. Both Negroes and whites were members of de militia. My folks cczue here from Alabama, but I don t know much about them except dat my grandmother, Charlotte ~dwards, give me an old wash pot dat has been in de family over one hundred years. Yes suh, it s out here in de ya d now. Also, I OWflS an old a~x handle dat I keep down at de store jist for a relic of old days. It s about a hundred years old, too. My wife ~as Saille Johnson of Little Rock, and she was a sister of ~r5. Charley ~ys, de barber you used to know, who was here sich a long ti~tne. For a long time I worked at different kinds of odd jobs, sonetimes in de coaj mines ~.nd sometimes on de farina, but for several years I ve run a little store for de colored folks here in Russeliville. Ain t able to do Very i~uch now. I remember very well de rirst train dat was ever run into Russell Ville. Must have been 68 or 69 years ago. A big crowd of people was here

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ftom all over de country. Of courae dere was only a few famllie8 living In de town, and only 013.0 or two Thiniliea of colored folks. People come in trc.~ everywhere and it was a great sign. Little old train was no bigger dan de Dardanelle & Rus sel lvi 11e train . (You. remember de little old train dey used to call de Dinkey don t you?) Well, it wasn t no bigger dan de Dinkey, and it didn t run into de depot at all, stopped down where de dump is now. Sure was a sight. Lot of de rolke las afraid and wouldn t go neaT it, started to run when two men got off. I saw only two men works ing in front o:r it, but I remember it very pIai2l. I~y was working with wheelbarrows and shovels to clear up de track ahead. Another thing I remember as a boy was de sassination of~ President ~~yarfie1d. I can t read or write but very little, t*~it I remember about dat. It was a dull fo ggy mornin and I was in de bayou with Big Bob ~n1th. (You remember Big Bob dat used to have the rrterry-go-~round and ruade all de county fairs. ) Well he told ne ail about de killing of de President. It was about 1881 wasn t It? I think times was better in de old days because people was better, Had a heap more honor in de old days dan dey have now. Not many young folks today have much character. All right. Corne back again. Whenever 1 kIn help you out any way, Pli be ~1ad to. NOTE : Henry Russell is quite proud of the fact that his ancestors were the first familles of Russeliville. He is a polite mulatto, Ufleducated, and just enough brogue to lend the Southern flavor to his Speech, but is a fluent conversationalist. 2. 110

Ex-slave. 118 113

#7~4 FORMA 113 !.~t~rns tances o f IntTview ST TE~ Arkansas ~ OF WORXER Miss Hazel Horn AD~ES~ Little Rock, Arkansas DATE~ Last of April, 1936 sU3J~CT E~-s1ave I . N~n e an~ acidre as o f info rmant - Und e Bob Samuel s Washington, Arkansas 2. Date and time of interview Last of April, 1936 3. Place of interview Washington, Arkansas 4. Name and address of person, if any, who p~it you. in to~ich with informant J. C. ii. Smith. 5. Nain e and. add re sa o f pe rso n I f any accompany ing you J . C W. Smith 6. Description of room, house, surroundings, etc.

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Personal History of Infor~nant STA~E~A ~ arisas NA;~L OF ~KER~-~ Miss Hazel Horn ~DR~j3..~Litt1e Rock, Aikansas DAT-- Last of April, 1936 sUBJECT-~-~ 81aVe * ~A:~:E ~u ~~REss OF IA~T-~ Uncle Bob Samu~e1s, Washington, Arkansas 1. Ancestry- Grandmother, Spanish; Grandfather, Negro; father~Negro. 2. Place and. date of birth - Born abotit 1846 -I Fami1y -~ 4. Places 1ived~ in, with d~ates -~ 5. E~Iucation, with dates ~ 6. Oectipations and. accomplishments, with dates ~ 7. Special skills ar4 interests-U 8. Community and. religio~is activities~-- 9. Description of intoraat~t~- Tall and straight. He is blind. Clean in appearance, dressed ir~ slightly faded overalls He has short clean,grey. b ~ard. Speaks with a clear accent. 10. Oth~r points gained. ix~. interview Ancestc~rs were in De Soto expeaitions. PORMB ii4~

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Text of Interview (Unedited) From ~ny rnother 8 mother I le arnea that on my mother s s ide my ancestor cale with De Soto from Spain where sbe was eiicated. at Madrid. From Spain she carne to Hav~xia, Cuba, and from there to Tampa, Florida. From Florida she carne to some point in Alabama. From this place skie came to the M1BSiS~ipp1 River and tbe East Bank ami crossed where it is called Gaines Landin~g. After t}ey crossed. the river they wert ten ki1on~ters from there, traveled north fro~n there to where Arkansas Coanty is close to the mou.th of t~ie Arkansas i~iver. Here they camped awhile. When they broke c~p thei~ they trave1e~ ~ort~:~st to Boiling ~rings. Making their way from here they crossed the Ous~cLita River on the other side of Arkadeiphia. They traveled on, crossing Little .1~isso~ri iiver below \~1aflacebu.rg. tiere they fou.ncl some Indian mounds. TI~en they traveled. on a trail from there to ~shington, turfle~ into ~a3hington ana tok a trail toward Co1~ibus am turned off to the r1gi~t (Uncle Eob not s~re of the name of this trail) and crossed what is kx~own as Beard s Lake. The~: exossect Little Liver at ~ard s Ferry and. crossed the Saline hiver. r,prav..~. e1i:.~ i:orthwest they reached White Oak shoals where index is flow and crossed OVEr irto what was Mexico a~d traveled. to a place called Kawaki loc tei where a~c no; Is. After camping here for a while they carne back into Arkansas to some :~cint near Rand.o, crossed Red River at Dooley s Ferry, went to 000la Fabra(?) a.r~a ~ to ~Oi1ixig Springs. LHere a gold. mine was foui~d arid a quarrel ensued~ ~ ~ a fight De Soto was ki11ed~ They carried. his bod~y overland and buried 115 #794 :~oBM: o

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2- hifi in the Mississippi River between Grnsvllle and Vicksburg~ The remain in~ forces Of the expediti n retarned. to Spain. Sometime in 1816 my mother s mother was born. ~ mother s mother was spanish. ~ mother says she was well educated. Mother and. her nether have $panl5h mixed with 1~egro blood. I had. a sister rian~d Mary and a brother nan~d John. ~p~ari1la, my grandmother came here rom Cuba through to Gaines Landing. Her son ~dmin and her ht~sband were with her. They crossed the Ml8slsslppl River and she said. they stopp ed. at the old De Soto camp. A sho rt distance west of thi.s place they met two men Nick Trammel and John Morrow who profitted ( dealt) in Negro slave s. My grandfather aud mothe r employed these men to guide them to Coola Fabre(?) Camden?. From Little ~iver to Dooley s Ferry the8e nien carried. them to Waco, Texas. They killed my grandfather and,k~pt my grandmo ther f0 rcing he r to marry either a half b ree d. Mexican an.Indi an or a i ~egro. It was near Waco in Hickman Prairie that mother was born. The boy Edmin was returned to Dooley s Ferry and remained in the vicinity ~uiti1 he was abo it seventeen y~rs of age. He then lived in the vicinity of Little E~ock about six months before returning to4exico. My grandmother said that ~. Trammel and. Mr. Morrow probably tk~ught he mi~it cause trouble and. killed hirnas she never saw him after he returned from Little Rock. Mother was held th Laf~yett e County at a point where the r iver crossed and joined Bowie County (Tei~asj and where Louisiana bour~ed the south. De Soto traveled by land~~not by boat. He had a force of about 550 persons. The worn~ dressed as men. My grandmother was with her husband. ~). j~j~ mother was a slave. She was held in Sowie County, Hi kens Prairie, by iob ~Lrammel. They kept her locked lIP ai~1 I have heard mother say that she Lsed whale bone, card bats and a epizrnii:~~g wheel. Finally they got so hot 11.6

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3 behind the ~amrne1s in 1847 48, they pulled. up stakes ~id went d wn on the ~u~4a1ape i~iver and. carried ~y 1D~other 8 mother cio~n there. Before t}ey left J)ave .~1ock went on Trammel s bond and. got my mother. He made my mother hea housekeeper 8lave. She had. been taught Spanish. She was tall and. fair with straight black hair. She was married to Dick Samu.els, my father. ~ ffe~p~fea~ After the war my father was electeciCounty Clerk in 1872 on l2ie Republican ticket. ite could neither read nor write so was oie rk . in name Only securing 1. one of the white men to attend to the office. By trade he was a blacksmith. Interviewer s Comment uncle Bob Sanmels is the son of .~ichard Samuels and Mary. He was a slate of David Block. After freedom he carne to Little Rock with a sister and. a brother,John. Uncle Bob said he often heard his mother speak of a gold mine. ~ had a trunk of maps and charts which her mot1~er had given to her. In this was supposed to be t1~e paperi regarding .0e Soto s legendary gold. mine. The t run~ had been 10 st as Und e Bob has ~ idea wher e the gold mine is. iie tell s the story the same way never varying a p0 lilt He does not claim to re~nember Indian trails or narres. une le Bob is tal 1 and s t raight . lie I s bi lud ~as c.~. eau in app earance ~recsed in slightly faded overails. He bas a short, clean grey beard. He talk3 with a clear accent, no Negro accent. Du.rix~ Reconstructi~n days he served as County Clerk of Hem,~tead Counts u.x~der Carpe(~aggar ruie. i ring those days he was a political power to be reckoned with. He was a national as well as a state figure in the Lily White Republican organization. ~His wife was a Negro good looking)but showed little trace of much white blood. ~ ~ Wa ) kV)LLcI o~- 4~ ~~cf-t~-~ 4 46~ ~ ~t~J ~: :~ ~ t ~t1i/~ ~ ~ lao ~w&i~-~ ~ o~ Jt c1ct~& wic~

[Interview with Sanderson, Emma] 123 118

118 Interviewer~MarLp.H~~ins ~ P erson Interviev~ed Erntna Sanderson Aged 75 Home ~ ~ &i7Wade Street~ If~tSpri n~s ~ * Enir~a Sanderson -~~7Jade Street , That was all the prospective lnte:viewer could team. F~mina Sanderson -~ ex-slavel Wade Street -.~Wiay it s v~iay off that ways You ~o sort of~ thatta way, and then tiietta way.~ A city map disclosed no Wade Street4 Maps belonging to a local abstr&ctor helped not a whit. Insurance niaps are in niore detail5 someone advised, Wade Street, niused the young woman at the desk, I ve heard of it, We have written a policy for so: ieone there5 The head of the department ~v~s new to the city, but he w&s ea er to help. After about five minutes seer eh ~-~rrom vvall raaps to bound volumes of blocks and 1~ack again it appeared that ttWade Street more frequently known as Washir!gton Street meanders wanderingly from Silver Street, in the colored section out to the Gorge Addition inhabited by law economic level whites5

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Emma Sanderson Eudglns Down Malvern avenue ( Iiot sprin ;s~ Be~1e Street) v~ent the interviev~er. On she went past the offices o~ a large O~iicE~ O pack~n~ house, For better~then a block she trudged by dilapidated shops which a ~ seasons back had housed~ one of the key transient centers of the U.S.A. Down the street she w~1ked, pausing for a moment to note th~t coffee colored feces decor~ted. the placards in the beauty shop window~tv~o well ~roomed mulatto girls sitting inside, evidently operc~tors. ~ ~er course took her past sandvdch Joints and pooi halls. I~aiIs, she noted as she drifted alone, had been driven into the projection beneath. the plate glass window of the brick bank C closed during the depression-~-~a building and bank buIlt o~ned and opera ed b~ negro capital) to keep loungers a~ay. The colored thea:er C ne~roes are admitted only to the balconies of theaters in Eat Springs~--.~one section of the b~1cony at the le~iternate theater) she loticed. v~as nov~ serving as a religious g~thering place. The well built and excellently naintained Pythian Bath house ( where the hot waters are riade available to colored folk) ~itb the Alice Eve Hospital C 4~ beds, 5 nurses, 2 residentphysicians -~ne~ro doctors t~ruo-ft the tov~n cooperating-.~surgical work a specialty) stood out in quiet dignity. For the rest, buildings were an Indiscriminate hod~e-~pod~e of homes, apartnien. houses, shacks,

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Emma 3anderson Hud~c:ins 3 and chain croceries. At the corner where the street turns v~hite the intei~viev~er turned east~ The Langston High School ( ror co1ored-~vJiLh a reputation for turning out good cooks, football players and acadenilcians) stands on ~1lver gtre~t. j~ fev~ peces from the building the interviewer met a couple of plump colored ~\omen lau~1iing and talkin loudly. I bog yo r pardon, ~as i~er ~:reeting, can you tell ~re where Wade Street is ? They could and did, ~1iey were sO frankly inter~sted in knowing v~hy the white~voznen ~*nted Emrria Sanderson that she told them her niission~ They were not -t aken. aback-~--~there v~as no servility-~no i~es ntrnent they ~ere frankly charmed v~ith the idea, Their directions for findin ~rs. Ssnderson became even more explicit, When the proper turn off v~s found the que~tion of ?lade versus ;:ashington Stre t was settled. A topsy~-turvy sign at the inte:section announced that Wade Street ~as ahead, Ernnia Sanderson s grandson lived a couple of blocks down the road,

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Eudgins emma Sanderson Only the tact that she could hear sorreone inside i:aoving about kept the interviev~er hammering on the door, Finally she was rewarded by a voice. Is that somebody a knockin ? In a xrioinent the door opened. The question, LTere you a slaveT~ no matter no~v delicately put is a difficult one to ask, b~t Mrs. Sanderson ~ s helpful, if doubtful th:t her story ~ouid dommuch good, ~I was just so li tie v~hen i.t all happened. But the interviev~er v~a~ invited in and placed in a chair near the fire. No II18 8~Ti1. He ain t my grandson-~~-I s the third grandiriother. No son, you ain t three --~you s five. Don t you remember vthat I told. you ? Yes, he stays vdth me, ma am. I take care of hirn while the rest of em works. It s hard for me to remember. I was just so little. Yes,ma arii, I was born a s1ave-~--but I was so little. Seems to irne like I remember a big, big house, We was sort of out in the country-~out from iemphis, I know ther was ti~ f~ther and my mother and m.y uncles end my aunts. I ~ow t~iere wa~ tb t many. Eow many more of us old man Doc Walker had~-~I ~just don t know. They must have took good care of us tho. My mother w~ a house nig~ah. When the war was ready to quit they save us our pick. We could stay on and v~ork for wages or we could go.

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Emma Sanderson i~~dgins The folks decided that the d go on in to ~emphis. My ~:other and Father didnTt live together none after 1,,~e went to tov~nb First I lived vdth Wother and then ~then elle died my Father took rae, My mother died v;hen I was 9. She worked at cooking and ~ashing. When I was bi~ enough I. went to school. I kept on goin~ to school after my Father took me~ Ee ~ied when I was about 15. By that ti.:~~e I was old enough tobak out after myself. What did I do ? I stayed in folkses houses. I cooked and I washed. Then when I w~s about 18, 1 married. after th t I had a mat to take care of me. I-Te was a carpenter. ~e been here in ~ot springs a long time~~you niaybe heared of 3anderson~ -4ie took u~p platering and he was rood too. How long I been in Hot Springs-~-~1a~ I don t know -~-~ cept I was a full grown ~o~nan when we come. l s h~d four chi1dren--~al1 of em is dead, I lives ~ith my ~rrandson. The little fellow, he ll be old enough to go to school in a yeEr or two, A dime ftr him ma ani ~ -an 2 cents besides ? Now son. you keep the dime and you can spend the pennies. I always t es to teach him to save. Then when he gets bi he ~l1

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. emma Sanderson ~ 123 kno~v v~h8t to do. Dining room and living room. joined one another by means of a high and. v;ide arch. The stove was sensibly set ~ip in this passage. Both rooms v~ere comfort~b1y furnished v~ith products ~~~hjCh had in all probability been bought nev~, The child stood close by thruout the ehtire conversation. There v~as no ~hit of timidity about him nor was he the le~st impertinent. He was frankly interested and wanted to know wh~ t was being said. He received tue dime and the pennies with a ple~sant grin and a ( g~E~ndmother prompted) Thank you~ But the gift didn t startle him. Dimes must have been a ~irly usual part of his life. But a few minutes before d the interviewer left she ropped her pencil. It was new and ong and ::ellow. The childts eyes clung to it as he returned it. ~ Would you like to have it. the young ~Nornan asked, would you like e pencil of your very own, to dra~ v~ith ? Would he~ The child s whole face beamed. Dimes v~ere as nothing compared to shiney new pencils. the !third gr&~ndchild was overjoyed with his ne~ plaything. Ella Sanderson was delighted ~it~h her gre~Tt brandchild z pleasure. The interviev~er recived a ~ an~L ~riend1y Good-bye

[Interview with Scott, Mary] 129 124

30420 . ~ 124 Interviewer ~ Miss ~ .. rtson ~ Person Interviewed M~y~eott . Age ~ ~~!~yak1p.~ ~~ ~ff or 3ia.~eo~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ i~ nI said if ever I seed you agln I d show ~ou dis here soar on my head. See here fa pufTed-out, black, rusty, not quite round place, where no hair grew~j. Dat dar what my young mietress put on me when I was a chile Dock Eardy hired me He was rich and married a pore gal. It went to her head. He was good to me, She w~s mean. She had him whoop me a time or two for nothin . They had two little babiea~I stayed round wid. I loved em. I I churned brought in all the wood mighty near brought bout a ~:l the water from the spring. 4~ter Dock be coming ho~sebaek frc~. Franklin, Tennessee. I knowed bout time I take the babies to meet him. d wait at a big stump we could climb on his ~ horse, take the baby in front and us up behind him, and put ~ us off on the back piazza at the house. I wrapped up the ehurnand quit. She ax me whet I quit churnin for I s ay the butter c~ne She say it am t had time I say it ready to take up anyhow. She got so mad she throwed a stick of stove wood, hit me on ~y head. I run out crying, the blood streamin down. I started to the $pring, come back and got the water bucket. I got me some water and brought back a fresh bucket full. I washed my head in cool water where it was bleedizi , It bled aliway back. She say, t~\here you been? I say I been to the pring, brought ~ Some cool Water to the babies, I give em some I told her. Whe ~ n I got

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2. ~ water I always give them some. She took the bucket, made me go wici her, poured the water out in the path under a shade tree, and made me take tnother bucketfu34 horrie. I thought she was so mean; I didn t know what she was doing that about. Got to the house she put me on a clean chemisette. I slipped off down to the feed house, lay down, my head on the cotton seeds, and went to $ieep. (t When ~ster Dock corne he woke me up, wanted to know why didntt meet him. He seen that blood. Went on to the house. he ask her what done my head that way, She say, She went to the spring, fell down, spilled the water, and hurt it on a rock. told him that iasn t so - not soZ I told him all bout it. He told 1~er she ought to be shamed treat good little nigger chap mean. He was so sorry for me. She didn t care. They had been ~oir: to old missis house every week, It was three weeks f o s:~e would go I got to see my mama fo she died. tiold Mistress Emily was a doctor woman. Deck told her, I:a~a, Scrubbs jumps and screams bout a hour late every evening wid her head. t When it got late it hurt and I screamed and jump up and down. Mistress Emily come got me in her arms, put me to s1eep~ When I woke up Dock and Kitty gone home with the babies. I ci~ied bout being fror~i the babies; I loved em, never been away fror~ ein f0. She got three maggots and says, Scrubbs, see what I ~ot out your little head Mama had died She say, ~ Your r~1?~t would want me to keep you here wid rue. She kept me till it iealed up. Them maggots big as a sage broom straw. V~e swept the iloor Wid sage straw tied together then. I~iistress Emily kept

131 126

3. 126 iiie a month with her and doctored my head every day. I slept on 8. pallet and on a little bed she had in the room. When I went back to Kitty s she wasn t as mean to me as she been - but mean nough then. ttMy mama named Amy Hardy. She had five boys th.re e girls. She died with a young baby. I reckon they had different papas. I was my papa s only chile. They all said that. Bout a month after I went to Dock and Kitty s, it was surrender. He (the lit-. tie Negro girl s father) come, stayed all night, and took me wid hirr. to live. Dock wanted me to stay; I love Dock and the chu ciron. Every year tu . a few years ago my head get sore and run. ~ trued all kinds medicine on it. D~~ t know what cured it. The week fo I left there I ~d a task to make a cut of thread every night, a reel. When I heard papa was coming to git me, I put cotton bats under the reels and kivered em up. Good thing papa got me - Kitty would killed me when she went to spin next week. She been so mean why I done that way. ttThey never sold any of our set but some on the place was sold. The mothers grieve and grieve over their children beint sold. Some white folks let their slaves have preachin , some would~ t. We had a bush arbor and set on big logs. Children set round on the ground. Fo freedom I never went to preachin . I kept Kitty s babies so she went. Mothers didn t see their chudrer~ much after they was sold. Fo freedom they would turn a wash pot upside-down at the door and have singint and prayer meetin . The pot would take up the foi s e . They done that when they dane ed to o I dont t know

132 127

4. 12? i iow they found out the iron pot would take up the noise. They had tienty of eni settin round tn them days. Somebody found it ~ and passed it on.

[Interview with Scott, Mollie Hardy] 133 128

128 ~tervieWer _ - ~-- u - --~-_ Missirene ~ ~ ~ Person interviewed MollIe Hardy Scott; R.F.D. ~ ~Valls B1~g, Arka~a~ J~ge9O ~ I was born at Granville, Georgia In Franklin County. I don t know my age cept :t was big enough to plow when young master lef and went to war. My mother died bout time the war started. We belonged to Miss ~1iza and Master ~Ti~ Hardy, He had two boys bout grown, J~irn and John. My tather belong to the Linzya. I don t know nuthin much bout them nor him neither. When the war was done he come and got me and we vient to Barton County, Georgia. When I lef they give ~- my Ibeather bed, two good coverlets and my clothea. White folks hated to me to leave. We all cried but I never seen em no more. They said he take me off and let me suffer or die or something. I was all the child z~y father had but my mother had ten. children I knowed of. We all lived on the place. They lived in a little log house and I stayed wid era some an up at white folks house mostly. No I never seed my folks no more. We had plenty to eat. Had meat and garden stuff. We had pot full of lye hominy. It last sev~ eral days. It was good. I seed em open up a pot f~ill of boiled corxi.~onthe~cob. Plenty milk and butter. We had wash pot full of collards or turnip salad. Maybe a few turnips on top and a big piece of fresh meat. 4e had plenty to eat and wear long as I lived wid the white folks. We had goobers, molasses candy to pull and pop corn every now and then. They fill all the pockets, set around the fire an eat at night. Sometimes we bake eggs arid sweet potatoes, cracklin hoe cake covered up in the ashes.

134 129

2. 129 sake apples In front of the fire on~ de hearth. everybody did work an we silo had plenty to eat an wear, ~ I had plenty when I stayed at my fathers an we worked together all the t une When he died I married. I vs had a hard time not able to work. There ain t no hard time it yous able to get bout. I pieces quilts an sell8 era nOW. Sells em if~ I can. For ~l5O piece (has no idea of money value ) . Some women prornissed to come git em bit they am t come yet, I wanter buy me some 8hoes. I could do a heap if they send o me. I can nUr8e. I kept a wornan e children when she teached last year (Negro wouian ~ children) e I brought tour or five when I come to Arkansas of my own. They all dead but ray one girl I lives wid. Seemed lack so many colored folks coming out West to do better, ~ie thought we come too. ~e come on ininigrate ticket on the train. ill the people I worked for was Captain Williams, Dr. Givens, Mr. Richardson r1~ht where Mesa is now but they called it 88 then (88 ailes from Memphis). Mr. Gate s. I farmed, washed and ironed. I nursed some since I m not able to ~et about in the field, I never owned nothing. They n~n us from one year till the next and at the end ot the year they say we owe it bout all. If we did have a good crop we never could get ahead. We couldn t get ahead nuff not to have to be Iburnished the next year. Vie did work but we never could get ahead. If a darky sa a white land owner he would be Whooped bout his accou~nt or bout anything else. Yes ~tree right here in dis here county. Darky have to take what the white folks leave f0 em and be glad ha s livin. I say I ain t never voted. Whut In de world I would want er vote ror? Let em vote if they think it do em good.

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3. 13() I seen a whole gang of Ku Kiuxea heap of times when I was little bacI~ in Georgia. I seed paddyrollers and then they quit arid at night the Ku Kiuxes rode by. They would whoop or shoot you. either if you didn t tend to yo own business and stay at home at night. They kept black and white doing right I tell you. I sho was afraid of them but they didn t bother USa If you be good whose ever place you lives on would keep em from harmin you. They soon got all the bad Yankies run back North from Georgia. They whip the black men and women too but it was mostly the men they watched and heap of it was for stealing. Folks was hungry. Couldn t help stealin if they seed anything. I seed heap of folks having a mighty hard tune after the war in them restruction (Reconstruction) days. I was lucky. My daughter would do mo than she do fo me but she is a large woman and had both her legs broke. They hurt her so bad it is hard fo her to do much. She good as she can be to everybody. The Welfare give three of us ~lO.OO a month (daug~iter, husband, and Mollie). We mighty glad to ~et that, We sho is. I eIn whim to work if I could get work I could do. That s my worst trouble. Like I tell you, I can nurse and wash dishes if I could get the jobs. I don t see nach of the real young folks~ I don t know what they are doing much. If a fellow is able he ought to be able to do good now 1f he can get out and go hunt up work fo himself. That the way it look like. I don t know.

[Interview with Scott, Sam] 136 131

~ -A- ~ Interviewer - ~ Person interviewed Age -~~79 -4- - ~ ~ ~1ey~ ~ ~ - Sam Scott. R~sse11vi11e~ Arkansas Hello dar, )~istah L.-.-.~.! Don you dare pass by widout speakin to dis old niggah friend ot yo chil hood No suliZ Yuh can t git too big to speak to ins! Re okon you vo seen about all dar Is to see in de won since I seen you, ain t you? Well, moe all de old-.tiine niggaha and whites is both gone now. I was born. on de twentieth of Zuly, 1879. Count up ~..dat makes me /9 ( born 1859 ) t it? My daddy s name was Sain, sanie as mine and Iria~Iay s was ~&llie Dey was slaves on de plantation of Ca. Scott.-..~yes sth Gapt sohn R. Homer Scottaei~u at Dover. My naine is &~m, saine as my t s of course everybody in de old days knowed Sain Scott My father died in slavery times, but mother lived several years after. No I never did dance but I sure could play baseball and make de home runs! My main hobby, as you calls It, was de show business. You remember de niggah minstrels we used to put on. I was always stage Ir~a1iager and could sing baritone a little. Ed Williamson and Toni Nick was de principal dancers, and Tom would make up all de plays. What? Stole a un f~awm coat of yours? Why, I never knowed Tom to do anything like that~ Anyway, he was a good-hearted nig~ah ~but you dunno what he might do. Yes, I still takes out a show occasionally to de towns around Pope and Yell and Johnson counties, and folks treat us mighty 1ifle0 Big crowds-.. played to ~4?.OO clear money at Clarksville.

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2. ~ /~ UsuallY tSkO about eight and ten in our comp ny, boys and gals~and we give em a real hot min8trel show. De old show days? Never kin forgit end I was stage manager or de old opery house here you r~nember for ten years and worked around de old printin office downstairs tor seven years. No, I don t mean stage manager I i~iean property man-.-yes, had to nistle de props. And did we have road shows dem dayal Richards Sc Pringle s Georgia minstrels, de Nashville students, L~xaan Twins, Barlow Brothers Minstrels, and--oh, ever so many inore-~yeS, Daisy, de Missouri Girl, wid Fred Raymond. Never kin forgit old black Billy Kersands, wid his mou! a mile wide~ ? ~ songs we used to sing in old days ~en I was a kid after de War wasn t no purtler dan what we used to sing wid our own minstrel show when. we was at our best twenty~five and th irty years ago ; songs like town, Red Wing, and MBXUE~y s 1 Alabama ~ir circuit used to be around Houa Bend Dover L~nv 111e Ola, Charle eton, Nigger Ridge out t roru Pottsville, and we usually starred off at the old opery house in Russellville, of course, I been married but am t married now. We uln t git along so~~ how. Yes sub, I been right here workin stiddy for a long tim. Been jeiiitor at two or three places same time; was janitor of de senior high school. here for twenty.two years, and at de Bank of Russeilville twenty~.. nine years. Folks always been mighty nice to me ~and no slave ever had a t mer fliaster dan old Captain Scott. In de old show days de manager of de opery always said, Let de niggere Se~ de show, end sometimes de house was haff full of colored folks~.-~

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3. 133 ~jte folkS on one side de house and nlggahs on de other wand dere never was any di sturbance of any kind, Alu t no sich good times now ae we had in de old road show days. No Buh! N ~ : ~am Scott who has been personally known t o the interviewer for many years, is above the average ot the race for integrity and truth fulness. His statement that he was born a few years after slavery and that his father died during slavery was not questioned the ~tter being a delicate personal affair and of no special moment.

Ex-slaves. 141 136

FORM A #762 Circumstances of Interview SPATE~ Arkanaas ~ OF WORKER~ Bernice Bowden jDDRESS~ 100 6 Oak St rest Pine Bh~ff, ArkansaS DAT2~ November 4, 1958 SUBJECT- ~~ EX-~a1aVe8 1. Naaie azid address of Informant - Sarah Sexton, Route 4, Box 685, Pine Bluff 2, I~te and time of interview November 3, 1938, 10:00 a.m. 3* Place of interview - Route 4, Box 685, PIne Bluff, Arkansas 4. Name and address of person, if any, who put you In touch with informant Georgia Oaldwell, Route 6, Box 128, Pine Bluff, Arkansas. 5, Name and address of person, if any, accompanying you - None. 6. Description of room, house, surroundings, etc.-. Frarne house, front porch with two swings. Fence around yard. ~hinaberry tree and Tree of Paradise, Coxcomb in yard. Southeast of Norton Wheeler Stave Mill just off Highway 65. !L~xt of Interview tPrewitt Piller bought my mother and. I belonged to young master. In slavery I was a good sized young girl, m~na said. Big enough to put the table cloths on the beBt I could. After freedom I did all the cookin and. milkin an~ washin . ~ i~ow listen, this young master was Prewitt s son. Grandpa s name was Ned Peeples and grandma was Sally Peeples. My mother Was DOrcas. Well, my papa, I ain t never seed him but his name was Josh Allen. You see, they just SOld em around. Ph5~t s ~hat I m talkin about they went by ti-he name of their owners, I ~u seventy eight or seventy nine or eighty. That s what the insurance ~ ~ ~ got me up. 13G

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137 I been in a car wreck ~d I had. high blood pressure and. a stroke ai . at once. And that wreck, the doctor eald. it cracked my skull. Till now, I ain t got fl~ remembrance. y~ou. know how long I went to school? Phree days. No ma!th I had. to work, darl~fl TtI was born down here on Saline River at Selma. I done forgot what month. What kind.a work have I done? Oh, honey, I done farmed myself to death, darlin . You. know Bu.ck Couch down here at Noble Lake? Well, I hoped pick out eight bales Q~f cotton for him. I wish I had the dollars I had. workin for R. A. Pickens down here at ~a1r~t Lake. Yes honey I farmed fo r him bout fifteen or twenty years steady. And he su~re was nice and. he was mischievous. He called all of u.s his chillun. He use to say, :Now you. must mind yoar papal And we d say I~ow Mr. Pickene, you. ~ know you ain t got no nigger chillun . He use to say to me Saille, you. is a ~ good woman but you. ain t got no sense . Them was fine white folks. Honey, these white folks round. here what knows me, knows they ain t a lazy bone in my body. I se cooked and washed and ironed and I!se housecleaned. Yes m, I cer tainly was a good. cook. I I belongs to the Palestine Baptist Church. Yes ma m, I don t know w1~at I d do if twasn t for the good Master. Itaiks to Him all the time. I goes to this here government school. A man teaches it. I don t know what his name is, we ju.st calls hint Professor. Well chile I 11 tell you. the truf. These youi~ folks is ione gone. ~ Some o these white headed women goes u.p here truckin . It s a sin and a shan~e. I don t know what s gwine come of em.

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Interviewer~ s Comment This woman lives with her daughter Angeline Moore who owns her home. k~ither and datighter both attend government school. Both were neatly dressed. The day was warm so we sat on the front porch during the interview. 138

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YOBM~B #762 Personal History of Informant STAPE~ Arkansas ~ NA~1E OF ~ORKER~ Bernice Bowden ADDRESS-- 1006 Oak Street, Pine Bluff DA~L~E~ November 4, 1938 SUBJECT~ t slaves NA~ AND ADDRESS OF INFOBMANP-- Sarah Sexton, Route 4, Box 685, Pine Bluff, Ark. 1. Ancestry -Grandfather, Ned. Peeples; grandmother, Sally Peeples; MDther, Dorcas Peeples; Father, Josh Allen. 2, Place and date of birth- On Saline River, Selma, Arkansas. No date. 3, Family~TwO daughters and granddaughter. 4, Places lived in, with daies--Deaha County, Walnut Lake Noble Lake, (Arkansas) Poplar Bluff, Miaaoiri. No dates. ~ 5. Education, with dates Three days, after freedom . Attends government school now. 6. Oceu~pations and accomplishments, with dates Farmwork, cooking, laundry work until 1936. f 7. SpecIal skills an interests Cooking. 8. Commuzi~ty and. religious activities -Msmber of Palestine Baptist Church. 9. Description of informant ~dium height, plump, light complexion and gray hair. 10. Other pointa gained in interviewv Injured in auto wreck seven years ago.

Ex-slave. 150 145

:1 ~ ~~.T C) Texarka~ District J.. 145 FOLKLORE SUBJEC TS ~ ~ ~ . Narie of Interviewer CecilCopeland Subj Ot~~ Ex- Slavo ~-- -~ ---.----------. Story Inforri~tion (ir not enough spaoe on this page add page) In art humble cabin on the outskirts of the oi-ty lives a venerable rld negro ex-~slave. Although bent with rheumatism and age, he still retains his mental faculties to a remarkable degree. An inquiry as to his health elicited the following reply:: 1 se a w Ilful TELInd but a weak body. Just like an old tree ~ de limbs are withered and almost dead. se been here a long tine, ovah 81 years, j and am ready to go any ti~ de good Lawd says de word. Dat s de trouble wid de people nowadays - dey ain t prepared. Baokw}~n I wuz a young man, dey wuzn t so muoh meaness, and such goings on as dey are nowadays. De young peple know as much as de old folks. Yas, suh, de won am goin to de dogs. Asked about life in pioneer days, the old negro replied; We had lots ob good times in. dem days. Log ro .lings wuz lots ob fun to me as I wuz strong den, an I oould show off befo de odder niggers. Dey wuzn t much rollin to it, mostly carrying. I mind de tirr~ when I lifted de end ob a log, an four men tried at different tine s to lift de odder, ~ut cloy couldn t do it. Three of dese n~n went to an early grave from trying to lift dis log ~ all tore up inside. Maybe dattswhut aile ~e. You had tobe oarel\il den, when traveling through de woods, or de v~rmjnts would g t you, especially at night. I mind de tiire when a negro ~uz Commt through de woods one nite, when he seed a panther about to Spring on him. This information given ~ Shelton ~ Place of Residence Dwi~Seotion.~Texarkana, Arkansas Oc ~ upati on ~ None -W AGE 81

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Dis nigger dropped in his tracks lack he wuz dead. De panther came up to him and sii~e11ed ob him, but de nigger held his breath, and de panther thought he wuz dead. De panther covered him wid leaves ant went about one hundred yards into do woods to call his friends to de feast. No sooner had. he lift when de nigger jumped up and climbed a tree, first ~uttiflg an old chunk of wood in de plaoe where he wuz buried. De nigger could hear de panther out in de woods as he called for his friends, and pretty soon, here dey come,. about five of ein. Slowly circling aroun de place where de nigger had been, all of a sudden dey all jwaped. Findin nothin but de old chunk of wood, c~m panthers got real mad. Wid angry prowls, dey jumped on de one whut had called dem, and ate hitn up. This old negro reserves all of the heroic roles for others. Asked if he had had any experience with the varmints , as he termed them he said; Yas, suh. De worst scared I ever got wuz frum a wolf. Walkin down a trail one day, I spied a wolf not more than ten feet away. Man, I wuz SO soared dat I seemed to froeze4in my tracks, and couldn t move. I tried to holler but all I could dowuz croak. Den I tried to whistle but de only sound I could make vmz a hiss. After standizg for whut seemed hours, wid his ears sticking straight up, de wolf finally turned around and t rotted away. The conversation drifted to other topics, and finally to ~iosts and s~irits. The old negro said he had never seen a ghost, and didn t be 1~eve in those things. No sooner had he said this when his wife, who had been listening in on the conversation from the inside of the door, exclaimed: I does~ Seem is believin amt it? Well suh, about two :iears a~o de negro d at lived next door died, A few weeks after he died I wuz settin out on de porch when I see dis negro ooi~ out ofde house, (md wa 1k slowly to d e corner of inah yard where he vani shed into de air. 146

152 147

A 10W nights later de saine thing happened again. No euh, dat nigger didn t go to Heaven and he didn t go to Hell. He s still around heah. He wuz a wicked negro and wuz soared to go.

Ex-slave. 153 148

P LAC E H O L D E R

154 149

#718 PORMB Personal History of Informant STATE- Arkansas t~fJ~ UP WORKER Sarnel s. Taylor ~DDRESS i4ttle Rock, Arkansas ~ PE--December, 1938 ~o~JECP Ex slave ~A:~ Ai~D ADDRESS UP x1~FOR~r ~T Lau.ra Shelton, 1518 Palaski, Little Rock. 1 . Ancestry mother Susan Barnett ; father J3en ~earden; grandfathe r, k~arvey i~arnett. 2. k~iace and date of birth -Arkansas, 1878 3. Family Three chi1dr~n. 4. i~ducation, with dates- 5. Flaces lived in with dates Jerome, Ark~isas and i~ittle I~ock. NO dates. 6. Uccupations ~id accomplishment s, with dates- Farmed, wash and iron. 7. Special skills wia interests 8. ~ouinunity and religious activities Belongs to Baptist Church. 9. Description of informant 10. Other point~i gained in interview

155 150

j718 PORMC ~5O ~ J,. ! xt of Interv1e~ (Unedited) tiiy mother uaed to sit down and talk to us and tell u.s about slavery. I f sh e had di ed. wh en I was yoim~ I wo uld.n t have kno ~i much. Bu.t by he r 1ivin~ till I was old, I learned a lot. My mother s old. master was I~rn arnett, so she said. No, not so she said because I have seed him. He give her her age and. all at that time. I have it in my Bible. kie said. tInt she was twelve years old the Christmas before the surrender. The a~rrender was in i~ay wasn t it? :~ry mo the s name was Susan Bearden. She marr led. Ben Beard.en. She worked in !I~ni Barnett s house. She milked and churned and tended to the children and all such as that. He never allowed her to go to the field. ~either her mother, my grandmother. She was the wok. My mother s name before she married was Susan Barnett. ~j1 old colored lady that they had. there seed after the colored chu drer~. She looked after my mother too. She was so old she couldn t do ~ tbin so they had her to look after the children. My grand.mo ther was kept busy becatise she had the white folks to cook for and. she had all the colored folks to c~~k for too. . There is an old lady down on Spring Street timt can give you a lot of iflfOim~ation abou.t slavery times. t boy was telling her that somebo~y was going ro~ind asking q~iestions a~o~t slavery aril she said she wished 1~ would come said see her.

156 151

2..: 151 My mother never had any chance to go to school before freedom and she neVer had any chance to go aeterwar~. i~ecauae sue didn t have any money. when they turned them loose the white folks didn t give em anything, so they had to work. They didn t allow them to pick up a piece ot paper jn alave t1n~ for fear they would learn. My mother remembered the pateroles. She said they used to catch and whip the colored men and women when they would get out. My mother s old master was the one that told mama she was free. He told her she was free as he was. After they learned that they were tree, they stayed on till Christmas, After Christmas, they went to another plantation. My gran pa, he come and got them all to co~ My gran pa s naia was Harvey Barnett . His old master a ~ son had married and he had been staying with him. That made him be on another place. There was a good many of the hildren in my grandmother a family. Mama had a sister named Lucy, one named lathe, one nan~d Caroline one naii~d Annie and one named Yane She had two boys.--one named Jack, and one named Barnett. She had another sister nemed~ ~ I don t remember her n~. After freedom, we sharecropped tor a number of years up unt il my father died. He died about twenty-.four years ago. After that mema washed and ironed for about ten or twelve years. Then she got too old to work and ~ took care of h r. My mother died last l4arch on the ninth day. She always had good health for an old lady. NeYer got ~ , she couldn t get Up and do her light work such as dress heraelt, 1~ookin~, sweeping, end so on. She would even do her own washing and ironing it we would let her. She would hide from us and pick cotton till te stopped her.

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3.~ 152 She waa .ick only one week and the doctor aaid she died of old ass. lie said it waB just her tii~. She didn t have nothin the matter with her but ~U8 old age he ~a1d so tar ae he could find. Dr. fletcher iaa our doctor. She died in Tercme Arkanaae about sixteen rnilea trom the Louisiana line. Leastwiae, they tell me lt s about sixteen miles tram the line0 $he always told u~ that she had her business fixed with the Lord and that when 8he taken sick, it wouldn t be long. And sure nough, it wasn t. I farmed until my mother and brother died. Then I oai~ up here with my sister as I had no children living. I jui waah and iron now ihenever I ca-n get S fl thifl to do. I have been married once, I had three children. All of them are dead. My children are dead and my husband 18 dead. 1 belong to the Baptist church down on Spring Street. I always unite ith the church whenever I go to a place. I don t care whether I stay there or not, My mama a piaster was good as far as white folk8 generally be in slavery times. He never whipped my grandmother nor my mother. He was good to the field hands too. He never whipped them. He would teed thee too. He had right ~aart of field hands but I don t know just how many. I don t think he ever sold any ot his 81aVe8. I think he come by them from hie tether because I have heard them say that his tather told him betore he died never to part with Black Mmany. That was what he called her. And he kept them altogether jus like his father told him to. His father said, I ~8~ut you to keep all my Negroes together and Black Max~iny I don t want you to let her be whipped because she nursed all of She said 8he never ~as whipped cept oi~e when she got a COckle befl7 UP her nose and he ~ot it out ai~d gave her a little brushing-.- not as nitch as grandma would hav given her,

158 153

4~ 153 He kept them all in good ahoea and wai~n clothes and give them plentY to eat. So many of the alavee on other plaxitatione didn t haY half enough to eat and were half naked and barefooted all the ~

[Interview with Shores, Mahalia] 159 154

30760 154 : ~ ~ ThterVieWer~ ~ ~ Person intervi owed j1~ba1iaShores, Marieirna, Arkaiisas I was born In OEreone Coui~ty, Georgia. My owner was J~ini Yackson. Es bought my mOther s father. She was rai8ed on Thn Taok8ontg place. I rec ~ collect a right smart about slavery times. He made us dress up and let the nigger traders see wlaat little nig~ers I got. We thought it was nice. What fine limbs we had. Aunt 1Tudy~some cafled her big Tr1~n~1at~~11ved down under the hill. She was old and seen after the children. The biggest children took care and nursed the little ones. On Wednesday and Saturday the cook made ~in~er cakes for the little children, The house girl called US. ~i8 was Aunt Teena s girl. .4unt Teena was a housemaid. See little niggera coIuin from every direction to get our cakes. Jim Yackson s wife was nari~d Mariah. They lived in a big fine white house. When it was freedom a 8oldier come, brought a paper and Massa J im was settin on the porch. Tom Cha~tnan was his overseer. They ruxig the big farm bell and had the oldest niggers stand in a line and US little ones in front so we could all see. Toni Chapman read the paper and stood by the Soldier, He had two big plantations, Massa Titn got sick that day and VOmited and vomited, He lived a week or two weeks. They sent for Dr, D~cham but he couldn t do him no good. He died. Massa Thu told them they could take the teems and go to town, all he ax of em was to feed and take care of t eiii, Every one of the groan folks went and left us at home Aunt rudy seen bout US like she been doing all the tirne~ They went over to Greensboro

160 155

2. :155 to celebrate, They all come ~ back. They was ai . ready fer their breakfastea. It was twelve miles fI OIIl Greensboro. Then the next day Ma8sa Ylm or Torn ChapIfl8J1~Pfl called the grown. folks to the house and told them, You can stay and I will pay you or you can ~o . I pay no more doctor bills I don t feed you no more nor give you no more clothes. Some moved and some hired to hirn, ~oiie went to his father-in-~law s place and saie to his brothers place and arou.nd. His wife was rich. ~he was Dave hitler ~ g~j No, I mean Massa Jim s wife~-Miss Mariah. That big place was what her pa give her. Massa 3 inl had five hundred little niggera on that place and lots more on the big plantation. He had about two thcnisand little niggera. We went in droves is right. I never went to a table in slavery time. We had our plates arid cu~p and took it to the pot and they put some victuals in em, then we wont and et where we pleased. We had all the meat we could eat and all the milk we could drink all the time Aunt Teena sewed and grandma would weave cloth. They ~aade i~hite aprons. My hair was nice and old mistress would tell Aunt Judy to curl my hair. They rolled it up on cloth and on little light cobs. if they wet it, it would stay curled, Massa ~Tini sold his niggers when he wanted toe. He sold my grandpa and Uncle ~an~ia wanted him to sell her arid he wouldn t do it I don t know what become o~ grandpa. After freedcm Uncle Steve corne back to us all. Grandpa was crying. He c iie to our house and said he had to go. ~e never seen him no more. Sorae of the slaves wouldia t be whooped by Torn Chapman, I heard them s~y Since I got grown he \ackod em. It caused trouble. He couldn t whoop eri~ then, Old master whooped some o~ em. Some would say, I take ten l1~k~ offen you and that is al Then he *uld sell them the first chance.

161 156

They would go to -the woods if he beat them too much, He didn t abuse his ~j~OTS. H~ said his niggers was his property. aunt Sarah tended to the COViS and Aunt Clarisa raised geese, turkeys, chickens, ducks, and churned. Plie Ku Klux come to our house, called Uncle Billy-.-4hat was ~y papa, ~r1ey ~ot him up out of bed. One man said, I ain t had no water since the battle of Sb iloab . He had pa draw wat er t ill daybreak~ng. He had a horn ne pour3d the water in. We was all scared half to death. Next morning there ~as a branch from the well done ran off. Something took place about a weil. Uncle Neel ~nderson and Uncle Cush dug wells for their living. They caine after them. Aunt Mandy had a baby. They pitied her and Uncle i~ao1 ~ot so scared he run upstairs in his shirt tail and stuck his head in the cotton. They found hirn that way. Uncle Gush said, Come on, Neel, ~ad ~o with me. They whooped Uncle Gush in his shirt tail. If you i~id~I t open the door they would break it in. I worked in the field in Georgia and A~rkansas both, I cooked since j v~as twelve years old. I married when I was twenty years old. I cooked Lere ~n Marianne eighteen years and I have cooked three Sunday dinners on Saturday and Sunday together. I would make three dollars when I done that. I ~adfjve children and I raised one boy. I washed and ironed. I ~et some help from the Welfare but I saved and my good old man saved ~o v;e would have ?ia~t:T vthen we ~ot old. Folks burnt up two of my houses. I got three more rLot it~en to live in till they are covered, I ~ got good property in ~tittgert but couldntt pay the tax on it and bout to loose it, I tried to ~t ~ loan and never could. We niggers have a hard time. 3. 156

[Interview with Sims, Victoria] 166 161

30804 161 Interviewer - ~Mis~ Irene Robertson Person interviewed V1ctoriaSima~~ He1ena,~Arkansas ~ ni was born in Limestone County, Alabama. It was on a river, Where I IIIEIS born they called it Elks Mouth, Ou,r owners was Frank Martin and Liza ~artin. They raised papa. Their daughter aired ~ (heired) him. Her name was ~ijSS (Mrs.) Betty Hansey. Papa s name was Ed Martin. I stood on a stool arid churned for papa s young mi stress The churn was tall as I was, I 1ove~ milk so good and they had plenty of it-~al1 kinds. Soon as ever I get t~rough, they take up the butter. I d set round till they got it worked up so I could get a piece of bread and fresh butter and a big cup of that t~resh milk. They always fixed it for me, ~iaj~a was Minthy Martin. She cooked on another place, She was a nursc~. Her papa belong to one person and her mother to somebody el8e. Mama was i~inthy Bridgeforth but I don t have her owner s nai ie0 I guess she was sold, I heard her say the Bridgeforth 8 was good to her. Some white man whoo~e d on her once I never he ard her say rauch about i0 Papa s owners was ~ood to him. They was crazy about him. I knowed papa s o~xiers the best and I lived there heap the most. I was born a slave but I don t know who I be- loflh~ to~ I ve studied that over myself. I usedto go back to see papa s Owners. They owned lots of slaves and lots of land, Papa done a lot of dif- ~ :~ereI~t things. He fed and farmed and cleaned off the yards and slopped the ;~b8. He done what they said do, well as I can recollect. I wasn t with mama ~~ h till after freedom, Mama said her white folks was treated mighty mean

167 162

2, :162 durinG the War. Once the soldiers come and mama was so scared she took the baby and run got lu the cellar. They throwed out everyth1n~ they had to eat. They took off baiTels of things to eat and left thorn on starvation. One soldier come one time and wanted mama to go to the campa, She was scared not to~go, soared he d shoot her down, She told him she d go the nex ~ day soon as she could get up her things and tell her folks she had gone. He agreed to that, Soon as he left she and sonie other young women on the place put out to the eanebrakes and caves. She said they nearly starved. The white folks ~ sent them baskets of victuals several times. Mama said she had soma pretty bead sh~ wore. Somebody had made her a present of theni, She loved ein. I think she said they was red. Mama s mlstre8s told her to hide her beads, the soldiers would take them. She hid them up in the loft of their house on a nail. One day a gang come scouting and. they rurarnaged the whole house~and place. When. the soldiers left she thought about her beads and went to see and they was gone. She cried and cried about them. That was before she went to the canebrakes~ ~ ~ Wh n freedom cc~ne on, the owners told them they was free. They dithi -b leave and then they xiiade a way f0 r them to stay on. They tayed On. I was grown when we corne to this state but we lived in Tennessee a few years, Mama had had. nine children by that time. All was dead. but us two ~ir1s and my brother, We come to Arkansas with our parents. We heard the 13fld ~as new and rich0 I wasn t married then, I ve worked hard in the field all my life till last year or so. I still do work. Times is tough here I tell you. I get a little help, six dollars. Some of the young folks won t work, some not able to work. If any~ body saving a thing I don t hear about it.

[Interview with Sims, Virginia] 168 163

~4L c2~-~ 1 ~ 163 j ~ ~i:LA~~ k.~ ~ ~i~n ;~ ~ _~_t~ Interviewer Bernice Bowden : Person interviewed V1r~n1aSims il-~rL~ 1~.gnoiia Age93 ~ Pine Bluff Ark. Occupation ~ ~~-o- ~ H1 was born in 1844. I was twenty when peace was de~ dared. I was born in Virginia. Yes ma arn, but I was sold, put up on a stump just like you sell hogs to the highest spec~ ulator. I was sold with my mother from a man named Joe Poin.. dexter and bought by Torn ~urphy and brought to Arkansas. My God, ever~r Murphy round here knows me. Yes m, my mother and nie was s old. Papa t sold, but he corne here the second year after surrender. ttI was old enough to spin twelve cuts a day ~ had it to do. And I could weave cloth just like they do now. Had seven brothers and I m the onliest girl. HI can recollect when Miss Mary Poindexter died. They said I was two. My mistis in Arkansas was Mrs. Susan Murphy. That was out on the plantation, we did&t live in no city - my God, fol The way my people acts now, they looks foolish. I never heard a person curse till I come up here. I was a grown young lady nineteen yeara old when our master lowed us to get out and cote. You better not. The first husband I married I was nineteen goin ~ twenty. My husband fought on the Southern side. Hi~ master sent him as a substitute0

169 164

2. 164 My master put good clothes on me, I d say, Master, I wants a dress like so and so, and I wants a pair of shoes. Yes ina ain, and he got em for me. I was forty-three and married to a nigger fore I knowed what twas to cry for underwear. I member they was a white man called Dunk Hill and he said, Virginia, who freed the niggers? I said, God freed the niggers. He said, flow, Virginia, you gain be just as freeas lamsomedayl General Shelby s troops was commt on this side the ribber. That s one time I was soared. Never seed so many men In my life. They wanted something to eat. Mama cooked all night . They was nine hundred and somethin I toted canteens all night long. HI member when they had that Marks Mill band was there and he sent word for me to come ~eas1es and they had went in on him. I had to wade mud. Young folks now ain t got no sense. folks now with such dull understanding. Marks liest part of the war I was in. tGeneral Shelby and Captain Blank, swords together when peace was declared. I m not crazy and neither am I a coward. like a man was comm out the clouds and ~ Them cavalry men they d say, Ride 1 and how they d go. I seen em when they was enlistin . Said they was gain to whip the Yankees and be back for breakfast in the morning. battle. My huscause he had the put on boots and I see so many Mill was the on- they whetted their Captain said, General, I looked up and seem so I m gain to surren-

170 165

30 Marse Ben was gol& and Miss Susan say, Virginia, if you think he aintt goin corne back you ought to kiss him good- bye. ~ I said, I am t goin to kiss no white man. ~ Miss Fanny went up the ladder and sot rite on the roof and watched the s oldiers i by. Yes in. Old mas ter whipped rie with a little peach $tick cause I let Frankie - we called her Fraakle - go up the ladder. I said I couldn t stop her cause she said if I told her papa, she and Becky goin to whip nie. fie whipped Miss Fanny. Old miss corne in and say, Ain t you goin wh~p this nigger?t She was mean as the devil, Oh, God, yes. She so mean she didn t know what to do. But old master kep her down. You know some of these redheaded women, they just as devilish as they can be. We had some neighbors, Mrs. Davis and Mrs. Daniels and old miss would be out there on the lawn quarrelin till lt was just like a fog, Us nigger s would be out there listenin . 1 But I was always treated good. You know 1f I had been beat over the head I couldn t recollect things now. My head ain t been cracked up. Nother thing, I always been easy con- trolled. 1 never went to school a day. After we was freed we stayed right on the Murphy place. They paid us and we worked on the share s ~ the reason I say I done better when I was a slave.

[Interview with Sloan, Peggy] 172 167

~L;u(iU6 #663 16T~ Interv1ower~ SamuelS.Taylor Person interviewed Pe~y~ ~1oan 2450 Howard Street, Little Rock, 4~rkattha8 ~e___ Ak~ P-Q-~- ~ Occupation ~a~rraLi11~_~ I was born in Arkansas in L~1ip, In Dallas County I think it is, isn t it? . n Charlotte ~vans was mother s name and my father s name was Lige ~vans. Gran daddy David was my mother s father, and Cheyney was my mother s mother0 Mr0 ~Tohnnie Sunmer was the naine 6f my young master, and the old man was Mr. J~udge Sumner. The old people are all dead now0 Mr. ~Tudge Sunmer was Joimnie Sumner s father. Me and Mr. ~Tohuinie suckled together. Mr. khnnie carne to Fordyce they say looking for the old s1avea~ I didn t know about it then. I never would know him now. That is been so long ago. I sure would like to see ? My mother ain t told nie r~uoh abou~t herself in slave times. She was a nurse, ~he lived in a log cabin. You know they had cabins for all of them, The colored lived in log houses. The white people had good houses. Them ~ was warmer than these what they got now.. tMy grandma could cut a man s ftock..~tail coat The se young people don t knOW nothin bout that, Grandma was a milliner. She could make any~ thing you used a needle to make, Lige 1~vans was the naine lay father took after the ~irrender, He wasn t flaiaed that before the surrender-~in the olden times. My mother had fifteen. Children. She was the largest woman you ever seenG She weighed four hundred Pound. She was young Master 3~ohunie s nurse, Kr. Johnnie said he wanted to COfl~e an~j see me, I heard he lives way on the other side of Argenta soxnewheres,

173 168

2~ 168 I was my mama s seveiith girl, and I ~ot a seventh girl living. I had fifteen children, My mother s children were all born bef ore the surrender* Mr. 3~udge &umner and his son were both good men. They never whipped their slaves0 They didn t feed like they do now. I et corn bread then, and I eat it now. ~3ome people say they don t, They would give them biscuits on Sundays. They had a cook to cook for the hands. She got all their meals for theme They had a woman to look after the little colored children, and they had one to look after the white children. My mother was a nurse for the white children0 My mother didn t have nothing to do with the colored children0 I didn t never have no trouble with the pateroles~ Sometimes they would corr~ down the lane running the horses, When I would hear them, I would r~rn and git under the bed, I was the scaredest soul you ever seen~, I think that 3 about all I can remember~ I was the mother of fifteen children0 I had one set of twins, a boy and a girl0 The doctor told me you never raise a boy and a girl twin, My boy is dead. All of ~Y children are dead but two. I was raised on the farm0 I want a few acres of ground now so bad0 I never was married but once. My husband s name was I~vid Sloan, I don t know exactly how long he and me were married0 It was way over twenty years. My license got burnt up. You know I couldn t be nothin but a Christian0

174 169

Interviewer s Comment Peggy Sloan a memory ~ is going, She is not certain of the number of children her mother had although she knOWs there were more than seven because she was the seventh0 She remembers nothing about her age but she know8 definitely that all of he r mother 8 ch ildren were born be tore the War~.that I s before the end of the War. Since the War ended seventy-~three yeare ago and she was the seventh child with possibly seven behind her, I feel that she could not be younger than eighty. She remerabers definitely running at -the approach of men she calls pateroles during slavery time. Her mind may be fading, but it is a long way from gone. She questioned rae closely about my reason for getting statements from her0 She had to be definitely sati8fied before the story could be ~otten0 3~ 169

Ex-slaves. 181 176

) I \ ~ f ~-~ <~ti8 #791 1r~G ~RMA Circumstances of Interview 3T~TE~ Arkan8as ~iAL:E OF WORKER--Carol N. Graham ~JE~.~S-~Rear 456 West Main Street, El Dorado, Arkansas D~T~-~November 1, 1938 SUBJECT~- Ex s la ye 8 1. Naine and. address Of inforrnant -Caroline Smith, Route 1, El Dorado. (Lives with Negroes by nana of Green about 1 mIle from Sniith s Crossing) 2. Date and. tirr~ of interview-~Nov~nber 1, 1938, Thesday morning, 9:3040:30 3. Place of interview ~at the home of some Negroes named Green. 4. Name and. address of person, if any, who put you. in touch with informant-- Had previously talked with Caroline. 5. Name and ad.dres8 of person, if any, accompanying you--Mrs . Ethel Deprie et, 516 ~st Miles Street, E ~rado. 6. Description of room, house, airrcu.ndthgs, etc.- -a typical Negro farm house.

182 177

#791 -4 ~ FORMB 1(1 Personal History of Informant ST T1~- - ArkaflSa3 ~ OF WORKER - Garol N. Graham ADDiiE~S- Rear 456 ~7e8t M~.1fl Street, El Dorado, Arkansas D TE- November 1, 1938 SUBJECT~EX S1aves NAi;~ iU~D ADDRESS OF IN~R~MiT-~aro11ne Smith, Route 1 Ei. Dorad.o. (Lives with Negroes by name of Green abou.t 1 mile fx~nn Sznlth s Crossing) Ancestry- Place and. date of birth--Camden, Arkansas? No date. Fariiily-- one child. Places lived in, with dates~-Caxnden and El Dorado. No dates. Education, with dates-~ uccupations and accomplishments, with dates-~one Special skids an~i interests-P ~ornnrnnity and~ religious activities - Description of informant - Other points gained in interview- This slave old eno~h to remember Civil War.

183 178

#791 FORMC ItS ~ of Interview (Unedited) ST~TE--~Arkan sas N~:L OF WORK~i-- Carol N. Graha~i ~DDhE3S Rear 456 West Main Street, El Dorado, Arkansas D~~TE-~November 1, 19~8 S1JBJECT Ex- sl ayes N L~~ I~JD ADDRESS OF IN1~DBM.~4NT- -Caro11ne Smith, Route 1 El Dorado. (Lives with Negroes by name of Green about 1 mile from Smith s Crossing) ** * * * ** ** * * ** * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * 4 * * * * * * ~1 first remembers living on the plantation of Mr. Jake Dumas near El i~ radO Landing. You. know it s Cal ion now. We 1 ived up towards Camden and it was there that my ma and pa was married and buried. I was a big girl d~.trin the war. My job was to card and spin. And I use to carry the chud~ren to school. When I ~ouJ~d get to the school I w~u1d pu~ the children off, git straddle and ride that horse home. ~Vhen I would get there old moe woa1~ say Ca line did. you run him? I d. sa~ naw sir. Then he a say, Oh, Carryline p~t the horse In the lot and come out here. I d say, Master I didn t run that horse but d.idn t do no good. He ~u.re would whip me. I d ~ct ~ and. roll. I would stomp and he would do the saine. I ~or~d.ered how he could tell I d. ru.n that horse. But course he could cause that horse had t~~c tbu~ps (heart be at ing rapidly) . I rem~iber seeing the soldiers come t1~rough daring the war. They come by droves stealing horses, setting t~ cotton on fire and taking sumpin to ~t, too. Yes, 1 does still menber the songs we sung dunn the war but I ve got t~:e asthmy and am t got much wi. rLcl fu.r singin .

184 179

1 ~9 You want to know the reason, Yo~i want to know the reason, Yoti want to know the reason, I ll tell you why, We ll whip them Yankees, whole hog or die. Hooray, Hooray, Hooray for the Southern Girl. HOoray for the homespun dress the Souti~rn ladies wear. My homespuzi dress is plain I know, I glory in its name; Hooray for the homespun dress th~ Southern ladies ~ar. ~I~ve got the astbrny honey a~d jest calait sing no more. ?ty~ asked bout my husband and chilliin. I been married fo times. My first man s none was Dick Hagler, the next Frank Bibby, the next Henry Harris ai d the last one was Tom Smith. That s where I get my name Ca line Smith. riev~r did have but one daughter but she had sixte~i chillun. She s daid now arid ~nah granchillu.n is scattered. I got the asthmy an jes don feel like talkin no more. Long time ago when I was sick master always had a doctor to me now I have to hire one. And t~ j alwa~js fed me good and clothed me but after I was free I would go round ar~ work around to git a little sumpin to eat.

[Interview with Smith, Edmond] 187 182

. i8,~ ~ j~~ ~ t,r1~~ Interviewer Pernella Anderson Person Interviewed - Edmond Smith D Avenue ~ Age ? ~ ~ t,1 was born in Arcadia, Louisiana a long, long time ago. Now my work when I was a child was farmin I did not stay a child long. I been grown ever since I was fourteen. My father lived till I was eleven, and I thought since I was the oldest boy I could take his place of bossin , but itiy mother would take nie down a button hole lower whenever I got too high. Before my papa died we had a good livin . We lived with his mi s tres s ~ s daughter, and we thought we lived in heaven. My papa made all of the shoes and raised all of the cattle from which he got the hide. We raised all the wool to make our wool clothes and made all of the clothes we wore. And food ~ we did no t know what i t wa ~ to go t O a s to re to buy. Didn t have to do that. You see, people now living out of paper sacks. Every time they get ready to cook itts go to the store. We old timers lived out of our smokehouse. In there we had dried beef, cured pork, sugar from syrup, sweet potatoes, OfllOflS: Irish potatoes, plenty of dried fruit and Canned fruit, peanuts, hickory nuts, walnuts; eggs in the henhouse arid chickens on the yard, cows in the pen and milk and butter in the house. ItMy mama even made our plow lines. She had a spinning wheel and ~ro~ know how to spin? - you can make ropes for plow lines too.

188 183

~. ILS ~ ~ twist the cotton and imve it about six ~ . inc~es lang and~ put it in the loom and l.t lt go around. anL a~oun. You ~eep puttin.1 thS twisted cotton in the looza a~d step on the~ p.dd le and. no 5Ooner than done, that was worked in a. rope. ~1ow, if 7QU don~t know what I am talking abcut lt is. useless for nie to tell you~. ~ After papa died. that left no one to work but marna and I tell YOU time brought about a change. L. ho ~i~e full of little children - we lived from hand to mouth. Not enough corn to feed one fliUle. No syrup, no hogs, no cows. Ob! we had a hard tlrne~ I remember hearing my ma~ many a night ask God to help her through the struggle with her children. The more my mama prayed tue harder times got with ber. Wasn t no c~re~ea aro~:d so she ~4d to s Ing and pray at ~ home The first Sunday Sehoo I I reme ~ u~er going to was in 1892. 1 went to school and got as high as fifth ~ade then I ran away from my mania. ttJust becaise I let old bad man overpower me I got grown and :~nnish. Couldut t nobody tell me a thing. I would steal, : ~ia fight, I would lie. ~ I remember in 1896 1 went to chu~h that was about the fourth time I had been to church. The preacher began preachin and I went outdoors and cut the harness off of hie ~1e and broke one of his buggy wbe6ls. I went down in the woods and ~ a cow ju3t for meanness. I stole. a ~un~ 9.fld I would ahoot~ ~7t~ie and anywhere, ~id nobody bothered me because they was 3~a~ed to ~ I ~ tole chickens turkeys and anything . 1 got in trouble more times than a little, so the Isst time : ~ot in trouble some white people got me out and I worked for t~ to pay my fine, out. While working for them I irade sho :8.

189 184

3. They taught me to do carpenter work. They taught me to paint; to paper; to cook; work in the field and do most anything. I ca~1e to my senses while working with those people and they made a ~T1~1fl out of me. When I left there I was a fir8t class carpen~ ter. Those white people was the cause or me getting independent. I ddfl t get no book sense, but if you get with some good white people, that will be worth more than an education.

[Interview with Smith, Ervin E.] 192 187

:~ ( ~) ( ~4 ~ ~ 1; ~ /1 1 87 ~ ~ r / ~ /4 ~ Interviewer ~ SaiaueiS.Taylor Person Interviewed Ervin 1~. ~knith 811 Ringo Street, Little Rock, 1~.rkansaa ~ge______ 1 have been in this state for forty-.nine years. I will be here fifty yaars on the fifteenth of December. t,I was born in i~benezer Township, York County, south Carolina, on. the t~ieiity-ninth day of April, in 1854. That makes me eighty four years old on ~riday. I was born on Good friday~on Good Friday at six o clock in the 1110 L~fl ifl~. I ani telling you what I was instructed all of my life. L~ father, ;I. D. ~iith, and my mother, Haria, told me these things. My mother carried a xiicknaarie, ~alina, all her life, but her real name was Haria. I ll tell you how they happened to keep such good. records. We had a little advantage over the other people of that day. LIy father never got ~r school education, but his brothers instructed him his half brothers. They were white. They was good, too. I mean them brothers thought just as Iril~ch of me as they did of anybody else. ~o my father got pretty good tr~inj~~~ He got it from his brothers and that s how he learned to keep ~ieh ~ood records. Relatives 1 aia told my mother cooked for one fanily for forty two years. Her ~1dE:~Ij u~me was Haria Harris. She was three~fourths white. She come from ~e ~ tribe old Cataw~ba Indians. Her own daddy was a white man, but \~ her ~rar~d daddy on her mother s side was an Indian.

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2. 188 I alu told that the old fellow bou~it my mother when she was fifteen years old. Finally he ~ot hold of both my father and ray mother, Both of them put together didn t have half colored blood. He must have loved them a lot to work 80 hard to ~et them together, My father was half white, but hi s riother was a rnulat to woman (~-Intorprat&r ~ ~ .adr~on~) ; and my mother s great~randrnother was a colored woman. fil never knew m~ich about race troublee. The best frienil I ever had was an old white grandmother. I was carefully shielded from all unpleasant things. Fort Sumter I was looking at the men when they were getting read~r to get on the train to go to Fort Sumter. Mr. John white, Captain ~Tohn White, I knew him personally. He was one of our neighbors. That was in Ebenezer that he was one of our neighbors. The soldiers going to capture Fort Sumter caught the Columbia and Augusta train going to Charleston. Looked like to me there 4t lias ten thousand of them. John White was the captain and Beauregard was the ~eneral. li didn t see the fighting because it was too far away. It was about. eighty miles from us where they got on the train to Fort S~ter. They got on the train at Rock Hill. Rock Hill was a city~--small city- real close to i~beiiezer. We lived near Rock Hill. They was adjoining towns. Patrollers and Good Masters The only patrollera I knew of was some that come on the place Once a~d got hurt. My mother had a brother Hobb and the patroller tried to whip him. Hobb knocked all his front teeth out with a sticks -~. ~ ~ ~ ~ T~~.~:r~w* ~wM.~LR~

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Ches good was the name of the patroller. It was like it is now~ There were certain white people who didn t allow any of their niggers to be w~iipped. I never seen a patroller on my place. i have heard of them In other places, but the only one to cone on our place wa~ the one Uncle Hobb beat Up. He had to take it, becau5e you couldn t put anything over on Harris plantat i0 ~iy people was rich people They idt t allow anybody to corne on their places and interfere with thern.~their niggers. f,I have heard my mother say that no white man ever struck her in her life. I have had uncle8 that were struck. Two of them, a~d both of them killed the men that struck them. Uncle Saul killed Edmund &iith and Uncle George killed ~d MeGehee Uncle George s full white sister (his half~sister) sent him away and saved him. They electrocuted Uncle Saul-~they executed him. ~ ihite men struck them and they wouldn t take it. They didn t do nothin at all to Hobb Baron. He got to his boss and the white folks was tfraid to corne there after him. All of this was in slavery. My people ain t never had no trouble with anybody since freedom; white people would ~et mad with ray uncles and try to do something to them, and they wouldn t ~a::e it. There were three races in the neighborhood where I was raised~ fli ;~ers, Indians, and white folks, They never sent the Indians out until 1876 ~th ~n I was a grown man. They sent thera over there to Utah when It bec&r~e ~ state ~ I had a lot of Indian friends that went alone at that Bad blood was mixed up there and you couldn t do nothing to anybody and ~et away with it. 3. 189

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4. :191) First Pair of Shoes I can ren~exr~ber the first pair of shoes my uncle gave me. They had a little brass on the top o1~ the toe8 to keep you from k1ekin~ thera out and ~~jflfl1fl them up. That was way back yonder in the fifties. Bible and Church in Slave Time White people taught their nig~ers what Bible they wanted them to know. t, t Vtho made you? n ~God t t ~7hy d Id He make t For his own ~lory0 n IThy ought you to love God? t Because He made me and takes care of me. That was all the Bible they wanted you to learn. That, and just a few more things. I could state them all. ~ducat I on In l86_!~ everybody that was less than. sixteen years old in South Ca~o1j~~ had to ~o to school. The little fellows that had been slaves had to ~o to school, and they ~ot some education. You will hardly find an old L~ari ft om South Carolina around my age who cari t read and write There was one hundred sixty pupils in my school. All boys. I never went to a mixed SChoo1~a school where they had boys and girls both0 The first school I attended was in Ebenezer. I went to high school in ~ack1enburg. Miss ~allie Good and Miss Mattie Train, Elias Hill, and David G. V~allace-~- all of these were my teachers. They were all white CXCept Elias Hill. He was the only colored teacher in that section of the COUfltry..~at that time.

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5. 191 ~dIien I finished high school, I went to Biddle University. Biddle ~as a boys school9 It was in Charlotte, North Carolina. They had a girls school in Concord, North Carolina. Biddle is still running, but it has another xiame. Dr. Mattoon was president of Biddle then and. Dr. Darling was president of the girls school0 Murders The first murder ever I saw was Violet Harris killed Warren Fewell. It corne over a family quarrel some way. They fell out over something. She was not related to him. It was done right at the fence at her gate. She cut hifi with a butcher knife -~stuck hirn just once right through the hea.rt0 That is the first murder I ever saw. They were both colored, The War was just winding up. It happened in Ebenezer. I don t recall that they p~mished her. li have seen a white man killed by a white man, and I have seen a colored man killed by a colored man; but I have never seen a colored man killed by a white man or a white man killed by a colored man. I have seen tner~ after they were killed but I never seen the ki~lling. I have seen both ~~aces ki1lixi~ their own, but I have never seen them killing across the !f bOUt fifty years ago, I saw a young man come in the church and kill ~c~h3r one. Just corne in and shot him. That is been fifty years ago~ ~:Ck in 1881 in ~benezer. Rock lUll, south Carolina, from 18Th to a while later, bore the name E1~ody Town. They killed a man there every Saturday night in th year~ tifty~two times a year they killed a man. They had to send for the Federal trcoj)s to brins them down. They didn t just kill colored people. They ~i11~d anybody-..about anything.

[Interview with Smith, Henrietta Evelina] 198 193

:)~~4 #?5% 193 Interviewer Sainue . S. Tay~.or ~ Person interviewed Henrietta Evelina ~riith 1714 Piiia Street, Little Rock, Arkansas ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ __e ~ ~ _ ~ _ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I W~8 born III Louisiana In East Feilcie Parish near Baton Rouge on the twonty~-eighth day of Z~cember0 My mother s nana was Delia White, Her maiden nane was Delia Early0 My father s name was Henry White, My mother s father was named Amos Early. My mother s mother s name was Julia. My father s father was named Tom White and his mother was named 5usan~ My father and mother both belonged to the Eason s. I don t know how they spelled it. Easonts daughter married Munday and my uncle bought this white tian s place years after freedom. That is not far from Clinton about four or five miles. It is three miles from Ethel, Louis ia~a, Amos, my grandtather, was the wagoneer on. the old place, rather, he used to drive the wagon too, He d haul cotton to Baton Rou~ and things like that. H~ would run off and stay five or six months. I have heard them talk about how he used to coz~ back and bring hogs and one thing and another that he had found out in the woods. He ~uld run off because the overseer would whip him. ~it he was auch a good working man that once or twice, the boss man turned oft his overseer on account of him. There wasn t nothing against his work4 He just wouldn t take a blow. Most of the times atter he h~d been out a while the ~ boas man would tell the hands to tell Amos that if he would conie on home they wouldn t whip him for running off, My grandmother s mother on my father s side was named Melissa. I thj~j~ that was her neme . My father a mother was nan~d Susan like I told you,

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2.~ 194 She W88 part Thdian ~better work hand never waa0 R~t she wouldn t be conquel ed neither. lihen they got reedy to whip her, lt would b. half a day before they could take her. When they did get her, they would whip her ao they would have to raise her in a sheet. The last tlnm they whipped her, lt took her nearly a year to et over lt. so trie wiiite man just turxied her loose and told her she was tree. She went on off e~~d we never did know what became of ber. The Msons were tarmera and they had a large plantation. I don t know just how ~wiy slaves they owned~ My father and mother were fed like pige. They had an old woman that did the cooking. She was broke down from work0 They would give the slaves greens and the children pot-liquor. My parents were field hands. My mother was too young to carry a row when she was freed, ~t she worked on an older person 8 row, They worked from can till an t Yon know what I mean, from the time they could see till the time they couldn t. Rob tixr~ was something like the penitentiary now~ It never got too cold nor too hot to work. And there wasn t any pay. My parents never were given any chance to earn any money. I heard that my grandpa used to make a little something. He was a wagoneer you know. He would carry a I ittle extra on his load and sell it. His old master never did find lt out. People knew he had stole it, but they would buy it just the same. The old boss man c~ down in the quarters and told them they were free when freedom came Right after freedom they stayed there on the old place tor a year or more . My mother waan t grown and she and my father ~rried after that. Afterwards they had kind of a fight to get away from the old man. He was carrying them the same way he was going before the War and they had a ~ ow (quarrel), and l.ft him. I don t know just what terms

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3, 1~35 they WODkd on, I don t think they did thsmaelvea. They took JUet what they could get and didn t know just how they was paid, It a maxi made a good crop, they would run him away and make him leave his Crops behind. My folks continued to tarm all their lives. They had trouble with the night riderB. They had to vote like they were told. If you voted the wrong way they would get behind you and run you oft. There iere ac~~ tolka who ~ou1d take pay for vot Ing end then vote different and when the night ridere found lt out, there would be trouble. I don t believe in taking money tor voting, and I don t believe In lying. My mother and father didn t get any schooling, That was allowed after slavery, ~it it waan t allowed in slavery tin~e. They learned a little from other people. They would slip and learn to read, My great.~grandmother was considered pretty when she waa young. She had glossy black hair and was a little short. She was brownskin and had big leg8. Her master would take her out behind the field and do what he wanted. Then she got free, she ~ve both of her children away. She had two children by hirn~a boy named Eli and a girl nan~d Anna. She didn t want them round her because they reminded her of him. Interviewer s Co.mnent The subject Id not . wish to state her age It is probably around 8ixty~4ive. Her rixther was married shortly after freedom. And eight yeara is probably a liberal allowance for the distance of her birth from exi~ncipa.. tiori,

[Interview with Smith, J. L.] 203 198

~n~Q(~ * !~.) ~ I (~} ~ . I 98 Interviewer 3ael~.Ta~lor Person interviewed T. L. &Lith 1215 Pulaski Str,eet, Little Rock, Arkansas Age 76 ni was born in 1862 in the month of september on the fifteenth, I was born at a place they call Indian Bay on White River down here in Arkansas, UI mother was named Enmialine &ilth and she was born in Tennessee, I don t know really now what county or what part of the state My father s name was John Smith. He was born in North Carolina. I don t know nothing about what ray grandfather s name and grandmother s name s were ~ I never saw them. None of my folks are old aged as I am. My father was sixty years old when he died and my mother was only younger than that. Experience of Father I heard my father say that he helped get out juniper timber in North Caro1ina~ The white man me and my sister worked with after my father died ~*a~ the man my father worked with in the juniper swamp. His name was hatrod Perry white, As long as he lived, we could do work for him, ~e didn t live on his place but we worked for him by the day. He Is dead flow.~djed way back yonder in the seventies. There was the Brooks and Baxter trouble in 1874, and my father died in seventy.4ive. White lived a little while longer, )~ .~ ~iy father was married twice before he married ray mother. He had two sets of children. I don t know how many of them there were, He had four Children by my mother. He had only four children as far as I can remember.

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I don t know how my father and my mother met up. They 11jed on the saIne plantation and In the same house. They were owned by the same man when freedom arne. I t know how they got together. I have often wondered about that. One from Tennessee and the other from North Carolina, but they got together. I gue8a that they must have been born in different places and. brought together through being bought and aold. My mother was a Murrill. My father was a Cartwrlght. My father s brother Lewis was a man who didn t take nothing muchfrom anybody, and he t specially didn t like to take a whipping, When Lewis master wanted to whip him, he would call his mother the master s mother -.and have her whip him because be figured Uncle Lewis wouldn t hit a woman, I have six children altogether, Two of them are dead. There are three girls and. one boy living, The oldest is fifty-.sevexi; the next, fifty; and the youngest, forty...eight. The youngest is in the hospital for nervoas and~ mental diseases. She has been there ever since 192?, The oldest had an arm and four ribs broken in an auto accident last 3~anuary on the $ixteenth of the month. She didn t get a penny to pay for her trouble. I remember the man did give her fifteen cents once, The truck struck her at the alley there and knocked her clean across the street. She is fifty- Seven years old and bones don t knit fast on people that old, ~ She ain t able to do no work yet. All of my daughters are out of work, I don t know where the boy is. He is soniewheres up North. . Slave Houses I have seen s ie old log houses that they said the slaves used to live in. I was too young to notice before freedom, I have seen different 8peeixnena of houses that they lived in. One log house had a plank house 2. :199

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3. -~U~ t ~s ~ fi bujided on to the end of it0 The log end was the one lived in during slavery times and the plank end was built since0 That ~al there of mine was born in the log end0 There were round log houses and sawed log houses. The sawed log houses was built out of logs that had been squared after the tree had been eut down, and the round log houses was built out of logs left just like they was wheii they was treesQ There s been quite an improvement in the houses since I was a kid. Food I have heard my father and mother talking among themselve s and the jr friexid.s, but they never did tell me nothing about slave times. They never did sit down and talk to me about it. When they d sit do~m and start lki it would always be Now you children run on out and play while we old folks sit here and talk. But from time to time, I would be sitting on the floor playing by myself end they would be talking niongat themselves and I would hear them say this or that. But I never heered them say what they et in slave times. Work ~iy rather worked in the juniper swamp in North Carolina, like I told YOU. I think I heard my mother say she cooked. Most I ever heard them say v~as when they would get with some one else and each would talk about his raster. Cruelties I heard my mother say that her mistress used. t~ take a fork and stick it in her head~ jog it up and down against her head. I don t know how hard 311e punched her. My mother was very gray~all her hair was gray and she Wasn t old enough for that. I reckon that was why.

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ii t~d~ How Freedom Cerne I don t remember how freedom came ~ They were refugeed I call it that~-rny father and mother were ~ty sister was born In Texas, and they v~ere back in Arkansas again when I was born, I was born and raised right here in Arkansas0 They were running from one place to the other to keep the Yankees from freeing the slaves. I never even heard them say where they were freed. I don t know whether it was here or in Texas. Right After the War I have no knowledge of what they did right after the War0 The first thing I remember was that they were picking cotton in Pine Bluff or near there. It was a smoky log house I had to stay in while they were out in the field and the smoke used to hurt my eyes awful. Ku. Klux and Patrollers I don t remember nothing about the Ku Klux. I heard old folks say they used to have passes to keep the pateroles from bothering thernG I re~~ember that they said the pateroles would whip them if they would catch them out without a pass. When I first heard of the Ku Klux Klan, I thought that it was some kind of beast the folks was talking about I didn t hear nothing special they did. Ocoupat tonal Experiences V~hen I got old enough, I worked a farrn.~-p1cked cotton, hoed, plowed, PUlled corn~all such things. That is about all I ever did-~farzning. Farming was always my regular occupation. I never did anything else..~not for no regular thing0

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5. 202 Marriage I married in 1879. My father and mother married each other too after 1 reedcm, I remember that, It was when the government wa~ maicing all those that had been $laVeS marry. I have been married just the one time~ ~iy wife died in April 192?. Present Condition UI am not able to do anything now9 I don t even tote a chair across the room, or spade up the ground for a garden, or hoe up the weeds in it. I axa ruptured and the doctor says it is the ftinniest rupture he ever seen, He says that there s a rupture and fat hanging down in the ru~ptum They have to keep me packed with ice all the time, The least little thing brings it down. I can t hold myself nor nothing. Have to wear something under my clothes0 I don t get a pension. Interviewer s Comment ~nith is sensitive about his first name doesn t like to cive 1t -.~ and about his condition0 He doesn t like to mention it or to have it ~ferred to. He has an excellent memory for sanie things arid a rather poor one for 8OI:le others. He got angry when his granddaughter supplied data about his wife which he apparently could not recall, ills physical condition is deplorable and his circumstances extremely Strdteried.

[Interview with Snow, Maggie and Charlie] 210 205

r~ :;O551J~J> ~ ~ ~ ~ . . . . ~ ~ ~ ~ie ~ Interviewer ~ . -.-- Misa irene Robertson ~- -. ~ .~ Persona interviewed ~ Ua~ie ~ow ~ ~ . ~ . RJ.D. Brinkley, Arkaneaa ~ Ages 69aD.d73 My parente names was Mary and Henderson Kurkendall. They had seven children. Mama died when I was three years old. Papa was a Yankee soldier. They belong to the same white folks, Moster J~ake and Peggy Kurkendall. They had a big :f arm. My papa told me that one morning they woke up and looked out over the field. The Yankees had pitched their camps far as you could see on Moeter sake s farni. They come up to his house. Moater Yaks had a big house and. a big family. The Yankees come up there and throwed out all they had and told the slaves to take it, No, they didn t; they was scared to take it and it be1on~ to them. They didn t want it all wasted like they was doing, Papa said they rode their horses up to the house. They took all the soldiers on the place to the camp. They was scared not to go. Papa left mama at the old home place and Moster sake let them work all they could. Papa stayed in the war till after the battle at Vicksburg. Then he come home They stayed awhile at Moeter Take C ~ and worked. Re got h18 knee hurt and his health ruined. 11e never was no Count after he got ~ back home, Mama could pick six hundred pounds oe cotton a day he said. They Worked from daybreak till pitch dark in them days. Little ake Kurkendall is living now Lioch or Harrison Station, Misa.. isslppj0 He is older than I am. He got a family. ~it he is all the eon old Moster J ake had that I Iaiow living now.

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2. Papa said the Yanicees made all the slaves Some kept hid in the woods. seem like frc~n way freedom but they didn t want to ~o to war. Then we heard bout Arkansas beine 80 rich to corne Some white and soins colored come. We ~8 got six living, five dead children. I been Brinkley) . I hired out to cook in Mississippi in ths field till I bout wore out. My husband picked some cotton, He ~ot rheuniatiam in his legs. Vie own a little home bout a mile frc~n town arid a pig. I wish I could ~et a cow. I am t got the money to buy one Ye se an t get one no way. ~e had a fine garden. Two o~ us get ~lO and coininodit les. ~ Times so f~ar this year been good. When it gets cold times may be hard. Times better this year than last or it been ror a long time. PI didn t know I could vote. Guess my husband done my part of the voting. right they could run across. he told bout it they wanted and a new country, we wanted corne to Aubrey, Arkansas. here fourteen years (at but I wash and iron and work in a terrible condition. He

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01 ~ 3. I am seventy three years old. There wa~ two boys and two girls ot us. ~y aunts and uncles raised me. My mother died when I was little and fore that my papa went to the army and never come home. They said he got killed or died -~ they didn t know, My parents belong to Berry Bruce. He had a family I heard ein say. He lived at Louisville, Mississippi. I recollect the Ku Xlux. I heard em talk a whole lot about em. One time they rode round our house arid through the hail of our house Yea rna em, it scared us so bad it most paralyzed us all. They went on. We dida t know what they wanted. We never did f md out. I don t vote. I never voted tn my life. I don t recken I ever will. I have been a hard worker all my life I farmed. I loaded and une. loaded on a steamboat with my family farrain in the country. The boat I nul on went from Memphis to New Orleans. I~I,iy family farmed at Batesville in the country out from there For a 1on~ time I made staves with the Sweeda. They was good workers. We would r~ake 1,000, then load the barge and send or take them to Vicksburg. I ~ot my board and ~ . a day. The present conditions for the cotton farmer has been better this year than last. When it gets cold and no work, makes it hard on old men. I ~ot no job in view for the winter. I would like to have a cow if I could raise the money to get one. I been -tryin to figure out how to get us a cow to help out. I can t make it. I suffer all the time. I can t ait still, I can t sleep I suffer so wid 1~heuinatj~n. Nobody knows how I do suffer. My genera . health is fine. This President has sure been merciful to the poor and aged. Sitrely he wj~ be greatly rewarded hereafter.

[Interview with Solomon, Robert] 213 208

40 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed RobertSo1omon,~ Des Ars, Arkansas A~e?3 My father was kfrican. ~ was born In Atlanta. My mother was a Cherokee Indian. Her name was Allee Gexnage. I was born In 1864. I don t know where I was born - think it was in the Territory father stole my mother one night. He couldn t understand them and he was afraid of her people. He went back to Savannah after so long a time and they was in. Florida when I first seen any of her people. When I got up any size I asked my father all about him and n~y mother marrying. He said he knowed her bout two year fore they married. They sorter courted by signs my mother learned me her language and lt was natural fur me to speak my father s tongue. I talked for then. She was bout fifteen when she run away. I don t know if a preacher ever did marry em or not. My father said she was just so pretty he couldn t help lovin? her. He kept makid signs and she made signs. I liked my Grainma Ganiage. She couldn t understand much. We all went to the Indian Territory from Florida and. Georgia. That s. how I ccmie out here. I t remember the ~ Klux I remember hearing ma and grat~na talk bout the way they tried to ~et way from ~em. My father was a fariner till freedom. He farmed around here and at Pine Bluff. He died at West Point. My mother and step.wother both died at Pine Bluff.

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2. 209 They took my mother to her nation In Oklahoma. She was sick a good while and they took her to wait on her. Then come and took her after she died. There show is a fembly. My father had twenty-two in his fambly. My mother had five boys and three girls and me. My stepmother had fourteen more children. That s some fainbly amt it? All my brothers and sisters died. when I was little and they was little. ~v1y father s other children jess somewhar down round Pine Bluff. I g~iess I d know ~m but I amt seed none of theni in I don t know how long. The first work I ever done was sawmilling at Pine Bluff. Then I went down in Louziana, still sawinilling I f~ollowed dat trade five t or six years. Den I got to railroading. I was putin down cross ties and layix2 steel. I got to be straw boss at dat. I worked at dat fit teen years. I worked doing that in six ditferent states. That was show fine livin - we carried our train right along to live in. I married and went to farming. Then I come to work at this oil mill here 11n Des ArcJ. The reason I quit. I didn t quit till it went down and C. ~ t) moved off. I amt had n~thin much to do since . I been carryin water and wood fur Mrs. Norfl~et twenty years and they cooks fur me now. ~y v;ife died ~bout a year ago. She been dead a year last ~Tanuary. She was sick a long time fore she died, ~Vell the relief gives me a little to eat, some clothes and I gets ~5.OO a month and I takes it and buys my groceries and I takes it up to Mrs. Norfleet~. They says come there and eat. They show is good to nie ~cept I amt able to carry the wood up the steps imich no more. It hurt me when I worked at the oil mill. I helped them~bout the house all the time.

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lRliat I do wid iriy money I made? I educated my girls. Yes rnaam I show is ~ot children, One my girls teaches school in St. Louis and. de other at Hot Springs. They both went to college at Pine Bluff. I sent em. Nji dey don t help me. They is by my second wife and my first wite live with my son, down close to Star City. Dey farm. It s down in Lincoln County. They let me live in this house. It belongs to hini. I went to the bank rd it closed and got my money whut I had left. I been livin on it but it give out. (~ ~1 k The conditions are all tt 44e. They kin make a right smart but everything is so high it don t buy much. Some of em say they amt ~oiner do the hardest work, hot or cold and liftin for no dollar,~day. Don t nobody work hard as I used to. There s goiner be another war and a lot of them killed ~~cause people ain~t dom right. Some don t treat the others ~ No m they never did. They used to threaten em and take ein out in cars and beat ~m up, just for disputin~their word or not paying em and de lack. The white man has cheated a heap because we was ignorant and black. They gomble on the cotton and ta:~e migh t near all of it for the cheap grub they let out to make de crop on. Conditions are better but a heap of the young black and white too deblish lazy to work. Some of dexn get killed out goin on at their meanness., I heard of uprisings since the war but I never Wa8bOUt none of them. I votes the Republican ticket. The last I voted was for iiOoVer. Sure they have tried to change ny way of voting but I amt r. ) ~. ) ~ ~oirjer change. I amt heard ~thin bout no restrictions bout votin. 3. ~L)~

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4. 0~ #~ s~ ~ ~ I ~ttq.4 If a woman wanter vote s all -D~4o . My girs and my boy votes r along. They are all Republicans. The most money I ever has at one time was ~6OO.OO. I dId save ~ (e1~ ~- ~ it. I spent lt on my girls clothes and e~i~i~o&bic,m. They did go to college at Pine Bluff but they went to the Catholic High School first down at Pine Bluff. No m they don t help me. They say it s all dey can do to get along. They never have told me how much they make.

[Interview with Starnes, Isom] 223 218

30759 . . 218 Interviewer Miam IreneRoberts a Persox~ interviewed Isom Starnes, Marianna, Arkansa8 ~ I was born in Marshall County, Alabama near Gu.ntersville. Father belong to the Starxie8. They bou~b.t him in Alabama. My paren~t& naine was Jaiie and. Burrel Starne s . They had two children I knew of. When they was sot free they left and. started renting~ I don t remember much that happ ned before freedom. I picked up chip8 and put them in a split basket I just could chii~. I d fill all the baskets and. they would ha~il them up to put under the iron skillet ~ Other chaps was picking up chips too They used some kind8 to smoke the meat. I could tote water on my head and a bucket in each hand. They was small Txi~ckets. We had to come up a path up the hill. I stumped my toe on the rocks till they would bleed; sometimes it looked like the nail would c~ome off. My mother was a good cook. I don t know what she was doing in slavery~ ni been farming all my life. Yes, I owned ninety-eight acres in ~Uabema. I had a horns on it. I lost it We brought a suit for water danage We b st it I reckon. They fixed a dein that ~ ruined my . I left and went to the North-~to Springfield, Ohio. I started public work and. worked three or four months in a piano factory. ~I liked farming the best and cane back to it. My boys hope me down hill. I got two boys. ~ girl left me all I got now. She 18 dead. I got a home and twenty~.-f ive ~ acres of ground. She made the x~oney washing, ironing and fai~iing, I ~ plied for the old folks pension but didn t get it and give it up,

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2. i-j ~ ~1 ~ I made four bale8 cott on, one hundred pounds seed cotton. r~y place is half mile from town. I have to ~et somebody to do all the work. My father did vote0 He voted a Repubi ican ti eket I have voted but I the best fitted for farming and that is v~here we belong. I never been in jail. I never been arrested in my whole life. Interviewerts comment I stopped this clean, feeble, old Negro --humble as cou~ld be~on the edge of town. He had a basket of groceries taking to his old wife. It was a sr~all split basket, His taxes worried him. He couldn t get a holt on any rions1, SO I told. him about the Farmers Loan. He was so scared looking I felt he didn t tell nie ail he knew. He looked tired. I cave it up and iokingly asked him if he had ever boon in jail. He said, I never been in. j~ii1. I never been arrested in my whole life. I laughed good. and thanked h~i~ I told a young wcxnan who had curiously been trying to catch the Coflversatjon from her yard that I feared I frightened the old man till he couldn t think to tell me all he knew. She said, Maybe so but he has a reputation of being good as gold and his word his bond~~ don t vote now. I voted a few days ago for a little cotton this year. It ;~as tue cotton control election, I voted a Republican ticket. I found out Democrat times is about the best time for us in the South. I quit voting because Pm too oJ.d to keep up with it. If a woman o~vns anything-..~land or house-~-~5he ought to be allowed to vote. The times is mighty hard. I need a little money now arid I can t get it nowhere. It looks like bad times for me. The young folks don t work hard as L did. I kept study (steady) at farming. I liked it. My race is

[Interview with Stenhouse, Maggie] 227 222

on~ I (~b~ ~jLku~ .J~O~) ~. Interviewer Mj~8Irene Robertson Person interviewed Ma~ie Stenhouae~.(am11e down the raliwaytrack) Brinkley Arkanaas Age72? Meii~a was owned by Master Barton. $he lived on the line of North Carolina and South Carolina. Her husband was sold away from her and two children. She never seen him no more (U~an~iienta was made with Master Barton to let Master Liege Alexander have her for a cook. Then she went to Old Picken$, South Carolina. Liege exander had a white wise and by her he had two girls and a boy. He had a black cook and by her he had two boys and a girl. One or these boys was my papa and I told you the old man bought my mama from Master Barton for his colored son, My papa never was sold you ~ee cause he was the old white man s boy. After his white wi ~e died his two girls married and the boy left Old Picken8, and they told his colored wife and her two boys and girl if they would stay and take care of him as long as he lived they could have the property. My papa went off five or six miles and bi~iilt him a log house, The old man ~ Master Liege Alexander was blind when his wife died end he had to be tended to like a child. He would knock his stick on the Wail and some of the small children would lead him about where he wanted to 0. His white children didn t like the way he had lived so they didn t want to be bothered with him. My parents name s was Cheney Barton end J~im Alexander. Papa was niediuni dark and so was his own brother but their sister was as white as the V~h1t~ woman s two girls and boy.

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2. OQ After the railroads sprung u~p the town moved to New ?lckens. Master Liege Alexander had lots of slaves and land. I reckon the white wire 8 children fell heir to the farm 1and~ My au~at and grandma cooked for him till he died. They kept him clean and took care of him like as if his white wife was living, The colored wife and her girl waited on ihe white wife and her children like queens. That is what papa said. Dunn slavery there was stockxnen. They was weighed and tested. A man would rent the stookman and put him in a room with soins young wcmen he wanted to raise children from. Next morning when. they cane to let him out the man ask hua what he done and he was so glad to get out ~ Them women nearly kill him. If be said nothin they wouldn t have to pay for him. Them women nearly kill hua. Some of the slave owners rented these stookinen. They didn t let them work in the field and they kept them fed up good. Fore the Civil War broke out marna said Master Barton hid a half bushel solid gold and silver coins over th~ mountains. He had it close to the spring awhile. Mama had to go by it to tote water to the house. She said she never bothered it. He said he could trust her and she wouldn t tell a lie. He took another sack of money over the mountains and the ai1ver~ ware. His wife died during the war. A lot of people died from hearing of the war ~- heart failure. I don t know what become of his money. He lost it, He may forgot where he hid it. It was after his wife died that he sold mena to J~iin Alexander s papa. The Yankees rode three years over the country in squads and colored folks didn t know they was free, I have seen them in their old uniforms ri~jng around when I was a child, White folks started talking about freedcan

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3. 224 fore the darkies and turi~~ing them loose ~1th the clothes they bad on and what they could tote away. No lend, no home, no place; they ro~ed around. When it was freedc~a the thing papa done was go to a place and start out share croppin . Poiks had no horses or xatlee. They had. to p1ot~gh new ground with oxen. I ploughed when I was a girl, ploughed oxen. If you had horses or mu.1e8 and the Yankees come along three or four years after the war, they would swap horses, ride a piece, and if they had a chance swap horses again. Stealing went on during and long after the war. The Ku Klux was awtul in South Carolina. The colored folks had no church to go to. They gather around at folks houses to haire preaching and prayers. One night we was having it at our house, only I was the oldest and was in another room sound asleep on. the bed. There was a crowd at our house. The J i Klux come, pulled off his robe and door face, hung lt up on a nail in the room, and said, Where s that ~ m J~esus? He pulled him oi~it the ro a. The crowd r~n off. Mama took the three little children but forgot me and ruii off too. They beat papa till they thought he was dead and throwed him in a fence corner. He was beat nearly to death, just cut all to pieces. He crawled to my bad and woke ins up and back to the steps. I thought he was dead bled to death ~ on the steps. Mama come back to leave and found he was alive. She doctored him up and he lived thirty years after that. ~ left that morning. The old white woman that owned the place was rich ~ big rich. ~ie been complaining about the noise ~ singing and preaching. She called him Praying ;Tim Jesus till he got to be called that around. He prayed in the field. ~he said he disturbed her. Mama said one of the Ku KLux she knowed been raised up there close to Master Barton s but papa said he didn t know One of them that beat on him.

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4. ) )~ ~ &l~ .,~_J Papa never did vote. I don t vote. I think women should vote im~oh as fl1~3fl. They live under the same law. I come to Arkansas about torty.$ive years ago Papa brot~ght us to a new country, thought we could do better. I been farming, cooking, washing. I can t do my own cooking and washing now. I got rheumatism in my jo its, feet, knees, and hands. We don t get no help of no kind. My dau~ghter is in Caidwell, New J~ersey at work, She went there to get work She heard about it and went and t corne home I jea got one child.

[Interview with Stephens, Charlotte E.] 231 226

t~) \6~io~ ~ ~) ~ Interviewer Beulali Shexwood Ha~g ~ Person interviewedMra. Charlotte Z . Stephens Age 83 1420 We at 15th Street Little Rock Arkansas I was born right here In Little hock. My tather was owned by a splendid Thxnily the Ashleys. The family of Noah Badgett owned my mother and the children. Pardon n~, madam, and I shall ezplain how that was. In many cases the father of children born in slavery could not be definitely determined. There was never a question about the mother. From this you will understand that the children belonged to the master who owned the mother. This was according to law. My father 3 family name was Andrews. How did it happen that it was not Ashier? . . . . Oh, my dear, you have been misinformed about all slaves taking the name of the master who owned them when peace came. . . . No, madam. My father was named William Wallace Andrews after his father, who was an English gentleman. He had come to Missouri in early days and owned slaves. . . . Yes, my grandfather was white. The Ashleys brought my father to Arkansas Territory when they came. They always permitted him to keep his family name. Many other masters did the seine. :ll rom the standpoint of understanding between the white and colored races, Little Rock has always been a good place to live. The better class families did not 8peak of their retainers as slaves; they were called servants. Both my parents were educated by their masters.

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.~ G ~( Besides being a teacher and minister my father was a carpenter and. expert cabinet worker. The first 8Ch001 for Negroea in Little Rock was opened In 1863 and was taught by my father. I went to school to him. A few months later there came from the north a company of missionary teachers and opened a school which I attended until 186?. My tather was a minister of the Methodist Episcopal church for colored people on what Is now ~ighth and Broadway. He also had a chapel on the property of Mr. Ashley. You probably know that during slavery days the slaves belonged to and attended the same church as their white folks. They sat in the back, or in a balcony built for them. My father was considered the founder of Wesley Chapel, which was Methodist Episcopal. From that time until this day I have been a member of that church. Seventy three ar, I think it is. Before the break came in the Methodist church, you know, it was all the same, north and south. After the division on account of slavery the Methodist church in the south had the word. south attached. For a long time my father did not realize that. In 1863 he and his church went back into the origmal Methodist church. In 1867 the Society of Friends we called them Quakers came and erected a large two-story schoolhouse at Sixth and State streets. It was called Union school. When it was built it was said by the quakers that it was to be for the use of colored children torever, but within a year or two the city bought the property and took charge of the school. As far as I can now recall, white and colored children never did attend the same school in Little Rock.

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3. 99 There have always beeu separate schools fox the race8. I em able to re~riember the names of the first teachers in. the Quaker school; ~. H. Binford was the principal and his sister taught the primary depart. ment Other teachers wore Miss Anna Wiles (or are ) Misa Louise Coffin, Miss Lizzie Garrisou~and sarah Henley. I was about Il years old when peace came and was living with my mother and the other children on the Badgett plantation about 7 miles east of Little Bock. Mother did laundry and general bouse work. Being a small child, all that was asked of me was to run errands and amuse the little white children. Madam, 1fb I could tell you the great difference between slave owners it would help you in underatanding conditions of today among the colored people. Both my father and my mother had peculiar privileges. The Ashley remily were exceptional slave owners; they permitted their servants to hire their time. There was class distinction, perhaps to greater extent than among the white people. Yes, madam, the slaves who lived in the family with master and mistress were taught just about the same as their own children. At any rate, they imitated them in all matters; to speak with a low voice, use good Snglish, the niceties of manners, good form and cour tesy in receiving and attending guests. I began teaching in Little Rock schools when I was 15 years old and am still teaching. In all, it is 69 years, and my con tract Is still good. My first experience as a teacher, (as I told. you I was fifteen) was by substituting for a teacher in that first Missionary school, in 1869. For some reason, she did not return, and the School Board appointed me in her place. Mter one year I was given

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4. ~ leave of absence to attenct Oberlin College in Ohio. I spent three years there, but not in succe asion. When my money would give out I would come home and the School Board would provide work for me until I could earn enough to carry me throug~a another term. I finished at Oberlin in 1873. I extended my work through courses at Normal schools and Teacher s Institutes. I have taken lecture courses in many col leges, notably the University of California iii 1922. 1 have taught all grades from the first to the twelfth. My principal work, for the last 35 years, however, has been high school Latin and English and Science. Lt present I em serving as librarian at the Senior high school and J unior College. I have twice served as principal of city schools in Little Rock. First at Capitol Kill. The Charlotte Z. Stephens school at 18th and Maple was named in my honor. I have a book I have kept for 68 years regarding those first schools, and I m told it i~ the only one in existence. I also have the first monthly report card ever issued in Little Rock. Mr. Hall (Superintendent of Little Rock City Schools) has asked me to will it to the School Board. I could recall many interesting events of those early schools for the colored race. Old, old slaves caine, desiring to learn to read and spell. They brought the only books they could find, many of which proved to be almanacs, paper bound novels discarded by their mistress and ancient dictionaries about half of which might be missing. Yes madam, I do remember that the erna ipated slaves were led to believe they would be given property and have just what their masters

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5. 23() had been accustomed to enjoy. I remember hearing my mother tell, in later years, that 8he really had expected to live as her mistress had; having some one to wait upon her, plenty of money to spend, ride in a carriage with a coachman. ~t she always added that the eman~ cipated ones soon found out that freedom meant more work and harder than they had ever done before. What did they work at? Pardon me please for so often reminding you. of conditions of that time. Few of the trades workers were white. Brick makers and brick layers, stone masons, lathers, plasters, all types of builders were ot the treed men. You xa~st remember that slaves were the only ones who did this work. Their masters had used their labor as their means of income. Not all slaves were in the oot..~ ton fields, as some suppose The slave owners of towns and villages, had their slaves learn skilled trade occupations and made a great deal of money by their earnings. The Yankee soldiers and the many Northern people who lived here hired the freed men and paid them. Quite soon the colored people were buying homes. Many were even hired by their former masters and paid for the work they formerly did without pay under slavery. ~ remember Bill Read and Dave Lowe They had been coachmen before freedom. By combining their first savings, they bought a hack, as it was called. It was more of a cab. For all those who did not have private conveyance s this was the only way of getting about town, It was Little Rock s first taxi-cab business, I should say. Bill and Dave made a fortune ; they had a monopoly of business for years and eventually had enough cabs to take the entire population to big evening part les theater and all places where crowds would gather.

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. / *v 6. 231 / No, madam, I do not recall that we had any Inconvenience from the Ktt Klux flans If they made trouble in Little Rock I do not now remember it. I did hear that out in the country they drove people from their homes Yes madam, I do remember q~uite di at inotly the times when colored men were voted into publie offices. J~ohn C. Corbin was State Superintendent ot Ptiblic Instruction. Phillips county sent two colored men to the legislature; they were W. H. Gray and H. H. Thite, both from Helena. 3. L Bush of this city followed M. W. Gibbs as Police Judge. After reconstruction when all colored people were eliminated from ~iblic life all these people returned to their trade. I was 22 when I married. My husband was a teacher buSt knew the carpenter trade. Daring the time that Negroes served in public office he served as deputy sheriff and deputy constable. He was with nie for 41 years before his death; we raised a family of six children and gave each one a college education. Now, you have asked iuy opinion of present conditions of the younger generation. It seems to me they are living in an age of confusion; they seem to be all at sea as to what they should get for themselves. I do know this. In some respects the modern frankness is an improvement over the old suppression and repression in the presence of their elders. At the same time, I think the young people of today lack the proper reverence and. respect for age and the experience it brings as a ~ide for them. During my long years of teaching I have had opportunity to study this question. I am still making a study of the many phases of modern life as it affecta the young people.

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7. 232 I do not like the trend oi amusements of today; I would like for our young people to become interested In things more worth while; iu a higher type of amusement. Conditions of morality and a lack ot regard for conventions is deplorable. &ioking among the girls ha8 increased the common use of liquor between the sexes. Did you ask me about the voting restrictions for the colored race In this State? I will toil you trankly that I think the primary law here is unjust; most unjust. We are citizens in every other respect; the primary voting privilege should be ours also. This restriction has been explained as coming down from the grandfather clause inserted in early legislation. I cannot give you the exact wording of the clause btit the substance was that no person whose ancestor - grandfather - was not entitled to vote before 1863 should have the right to the ballot. Of course it is readily seen that this clause was written purely for the purpose of denying the vote to the colored people. Perhaps, madam, my talk has been too much along educational lines. You asked me about my life since freedom ca~ and how I have lived to the present time. I have had the blessed privilege of be in~ a teacher of doing the work I love best of all in the world to do. I have written the story of my life work; it is all ready to be published. I have written The Story of Negro Schools in Little Rock and Memoirs of Little Rock. Madam, I have written, I suppose, what would amount to volumes for our church papers and local Negro newspaper. My daughter was, at one time, editor of the ~omens Page. No, l in indeed sorry that I have not kept a scrapbook of such writings,

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8, In these latter years my friends scold me f or having destroyed ai . the papers as fast as they were read. The most of the news in the articles, however, I have used in the manuscripts of the books I hope to bave published.

[Interview with Stevens, William J.] 239 234

30761 . QQ ~t)4 Interviewer Mi~8 Irene Robertson Person interviewed WUliam3. Stevens~ Brinkley, Arkansas AgeUpin?O s . I was born in Pleasant Hill, ilabania. My owners were Haley and 1jissouri Stevens. They owned G~randma Mary. . Pa was born on the place. L~other was sold from the Gombesses to Stevens, )~otherts mother was a Turk Dark Creek Indian. She was a free woman. Her naine was J~udy. I called her Grandma J udy. She was old but not cray. She had long black hair as I reraeiriber her. Mother was named ~4illie. Haley bought her for my pa. My pa s father was Haley Stevens ownson. He was his coachman. Pa never worked a great deal. Mother never cooked till after emancipation. She was the house girl and nurse Life moved along smoothly as much as I ever ~ heard till freedom come on. The Indians was independent folks. My mother .~as like that0 Haley Stevens took his fatally to Texas soon as freedom corne one L~other went with them. They treated her so nicely. P wouldn ~t follow, He said. she thought more ot~ them than she did him. He kept ins with h~.\ He married ag in. He was a barber at Selma, Alabema. He died a barber at ~J1niston, Alabama. While my mother was in Texas she went to see her mother in Hickory, Alabsxaa. ~3he was talking with a tramp. He had helped my pa in t~e shop at Selina. Mother took the train and come to pa s and my step ~ut~ier s house. I was fourteen years old then and still wore a long shirt ~ like dress. They treated her the nicest kind, She told them she was ~ ifiarried to a man named Sims down in Mississippi. ~3he went back. I don t ~ k:io~ where. The barber business was a colored sian s trade in the early days,

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2. Soon after freedom I niade two trips a day and carried my young raistreas books to school. It was a mile 1~or us to go round the road to Pleasant Hill. She married C. C. Williams. I cooked for her. I cooked her daughter s weddin supper She had. t~vo girls Mau~de and Pearl ~ I worked there fourteen years for my clothes and something to eat. Then I went to myself. When I wasn t cooking I worked in Mr. C. C. Williams sash and blind factory. They was bi~ rich 1~o1ks. Mrs. Willia~is had a hundred rent houses. She went about in her carriage and collected rent. That was at i ~eridian, Mississippi. They learned me more than an education~- to work. She learned me to cook, I cooked all my life, I cooked here at the Rusher Hotel till I got so old I was n.ot able to do the work, I do little odd jobs of work where I can find. them. I plied for the O1d~ ~e Pension but they give rae coznnioditles and that s all, I supports my own self such as it be. I find the young generation don t stick to jobs like I had to do, Seerils like they want an education to keep them out of work. Education does 3ome good and some more harm than good. Oh t iraesl Times is going faste ~e1l with some I reckon. Some like me is done left, I mean I got slower, Time getting faster, I m done left outen the ~sme. Time wait for no man.

[Interview with Stith, James Henry] 244 239

30843 . 239 ~tervi.wer~~ ~ - ~ - ~o-p - ~ ~ ~ -- ~ Person interviewed ~ Z~naa HSXIr78ti~ ~ 2223 L Nineteenth Street ~ 72 ~ Little Rook, Arkansas - ~ ~. ~ ~ - I was born In Sparta in Hancock County, Georgia, in January 26, 1866. My fath r was named William Henry Stith, end I was a little tot less than two years old when my mother died. My father has called her name often bit I forget it. I forget the na~a of my tather a tather, too, and of mother s people. That is too far back. My tather was born in 1818. Re was born in Georgia. His master was nensd W. W. Simpson. He had a master hafore Simpson. Simpson bOught him from somebody else. I never can rsnember the man s ne~. Houses ~The tiret houses I saw in Georgia were frame or brick houses. There weren t any log houses round where I was brought up. Georgia wain t a log hou8e atate--leaatwiae, not the part I lived iii. Lu another part there were plenty of eauiifla. That made lumber co~on. You could get longDeaf pine eighty to ninety feet long it you wanted it. 8mo little towns didn t have no planing mills and you would have to send to An~ista or to Atlanta for the planing work or else they would make planed lumber by hand. I have worked for four and five weeks at a time dressing lumber- flooring, ceiling, 8lding, moldings and so on. ~My father was still with Simpson when I r~mbered anything. At that tinie the house we lived in las a weatherboarded house just liks th. Ones vs live in now. It was a houas that had been built since frs.dcs.

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2. 24() Old man Simpson sent for my tather and told him to build a houae tor hIDWIlf on the ~rounda. My father had been with 8impaon f~or 80 long and had done 30 much work for him during slave time that Sirnpeon didn t want to do without him. Re supplied all the lumber and materiale tor my father. ~iring s1a~e time, Simpson had hired my father out to the other planten when lie had nothing for him to do in the line of building on hie own plantation. Ho had had him to superintend hie gnat mill. 42.1 that was in elavery thne. My father was a highly skilled laborer. He could do a lot of other things beaidet~ building. So when freedom coma, he wanted my father round. him still. They both fished and hunted. He wanted my father to go flahing with him and keep hi~ c~npany. My father was a carpnter of the first clasa, you see, even in slave time. That was all he done. He was brought up to be a carpenter and did nothing but that all his time. My daddy was a mighty good mechanic. Good Master My daddy s master was a very good and kind one. My father was not under ally overseer. He worked directly under his master. I remember one incident he told me His master hired a new overseer who hung around for a bit watching my father. Finally, my father asked hirn, Now, what are you able to do? The overse r answered, Why, I can see a~U over and whip all over, and that s as much as any damn man can do. Nobody was allowed to touch my father. He never had no trouble with the paterolea either. Old man Simpson didn t allow that. He was a tree agent. Then he wasn t working for Simpson, he was working for the next big farmer, and then the next one, and then the next one, and old ~aan ~3impson got wages for hie work. Sometimes he worked a contract,

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3. Old flan 8lmpeon couldn t afford to have him haxidicappd in hii going and coming. He co~i1d go whenever h. wanted to go, and come baok whenever h. got ready, with a paaa or without on,. Hia tim.e was valuable, The reason why so niany slaves suffered as much as they did a~ a rule was xiot beC~U8e of the mastera but because of the poor whit. traeh over~ seers. I know of several rich white women that had slaves that wouldn t allow them to be mi8treated. They would fire Thur and five overseers to keep their slaves frcm being mistreated. Mean Masters Thit there were s e mean masters. I have heard that right there in Georgia there was one white planter--I think it was Brantley--who put one of his slaves that had been unruly in a packing screw and ran it down on him till he mashad hUn to death. The cotton screw was the thing they ~ ~ pressed cotton gales in. They run it down by steam now, but then, they used to run it down with two mules. They tell a lot of things like that on Braxitley, Or coures I couldu t personally know it but I know he was mighty mean arid I know the way he died. ~ishwhacking the Ku Klux He belonged to the paterole gang end they went ont after the Negroes one night after tr,edcm, The Negroes bushwhacked them and killed ro~ or tive ot them. They give it out that the men that was killed had cone to Texas. Brantley was one of the killed ones. The pateroles was awtul bad at that time. Ku Klux they called them after the War, but they was the sai~ people. I never heard of the Klan part till this thins c~e up that they have now. They called them Ku Klux baok when I was a boy.

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4. My atS~IflOthe1! ~fl~jc~ me over to Brantley a house the r~tght he got kiUed. So I know the Texa8 he went to. That wae in 69 or 70. He lived about a mile from ue and ehen he got killed, ehe carried me over to see him juet like we would have gone to see any other neighbor. The Negroes were naturally afraid of the KU. Klux but they finally got to the place where they were determined to break it i~p. They didn t have no X O~S8, ~t they WOUld take grapevines and tie them aoroee the road about breast high when a man would be on horeeback. The K~i Klux would run against theae vinea and be knocked off their horses into the road and then the buahihackera would ahoot them. Ihen Ku Klux was killed in thia manner, it waa never admitted; bu-b it waa aaid that they had gone to Texai. There was several of them went to Texaa one night. Amusements There weren t many aimisenente in slave times. They had dances with fiddle music. There was mighty few darkies could get out to go to dances because the paterolea was so bad after them. I don t know of any other amusements the slaves had. They were playing baseball. when I was born. r There were boys much older than I was already playing when I was old enough to notice so I think they must have known about it in slave time They didn t play much in that way because they didn t have time. Slaves who Bought Thexaselvea ni have heard tell of soete Negroes that was thrifty and got mony enough from side work to buy themaelva. They had to go )~orth then because they oudn t live in the South tree I don t remember the ir nemes just now.

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5. 24:3 church RThe slaves had church. 8~eti~s they had church at one another e ~1ou8e~ I don t think they ever built them a church hotu.. ~t they could go to the white folks church if they wanted to. How Freedcm Came My daddy s master told my father he was free. He told him that in 1865. He told him that he was free to do as he pleased, that he could cc~ when he pleased and go when he pleased. Course, be told him he wanted him to stay around hi~~not to go off. Soldiers ni have heard my father speak of soldiers, but they were too busy round Atlanta and up that way to git down where my father was. They don t seem to have bothered his town. They never made my father do any labor in the army neither. My father was mixed Indien, white, and Negro. Marriage Slaves had to get the consent of their masters to marry. Sometimes tV ~ masters would want them to go and would even buy the woman they wanted to keep them contented on the plantation. Sometimes the r~stera wouldn t do anything but let them visit. They wou.ld marry~ what they called i arria In those days and the husband would have to git permission from hie me.eter to go visit hie wife and git permission from her master to c~e there. He would go on Saturday night and get back in time for hie work on Monday morning. It was just like raising stock and mating it. I have been married tifty..one years. I have been married twice though. My fir8t wife died in 1900. 1 have been married to my second wife th1rty~four years last April. Those were real marriages.

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6. 244. Opiniona *1 can t say much along thae lines. The chance to make a 1tvin~ looka 80 dark I caa t ase much of a future. Things seem to b ~sttiiig worae. Nearly everybody I talk with, white or colored, seema to think th same. It la like Senator Laa~ said, It Congrea8 would 0108e up and go hcxne at once t i.mea would get better. People t know what kind of fool law Congre.. i3 going to make and they are not going to apend much money. I don t think Mr. Roose~elt a pump priming will do much good becauae you must keep adding to it or it will go away. nI don t think much of the young people. These nineteenth or twentieth century Negroee la acniethlng fierce I m telling you. Vocational ~xperiencea $1 am a carpenter. I wish I wasn t. The depreesion haa made it so that the Negroes get very little to do. What they have they give to their own people. They don t have zaich for nobody. Zven if the nigger gets something, he gets very little out of it. But the main trouble .a there i$n t anything to do. I have been a carpenter for fifty-tour years. I have been here f ifty~ one years. I have never had no trouble earning a living till now. I can t do it now. The biggest obstacle of the ~cceaa of the Negro carpenter is that Negroes don t have the money to build with. They must get the money fron the white man. The white man, on the other hand, if he lets out the raoney for the building, has the aay~so on who will do it, and he neture~lly picks out another white man. That keeps the majority of Negroea out of work as far as carpentry is concerned. It does in a time like this. When times ia better, the white ~n dosa not need to be so tight, and he can divide up.

[Interview with Street, Felix] 251 246

#681 246 Interviewer SamuelS.Taylor ~ Person interviewed FelixStreet 822 8~chiller Sti~eet, Little Rock, Arkansaa Age~__?4 UI was born in Dickson County, Tennessee, fifty miles north of Nashville, in 1864. It was on December twenty-eighth. My father told me when he was living how old I was, He told me all the way along, and I remember lt. Nannie Jeff Hardy, lohn Mack, and. Felix (that s me ) are my father a children by his first wife, Lena, Martha, ~sther are his children by hi8 second wife. He had five children by my mother, and four of them lived to be grown, and one died in infancy. My mother was his first wife0 Her name was Mary Street. Her name before she married-.-~hold a minute, lemme see~ seems like it was Mary ~ Mary ~ Street. ~Iy father and my mother couldn t have lived on the saine plantation because she was a May and he was a Street. I don t know how they met.0 My father s master s name was STick Street, He owned, to my knowing, my ~at1ier, Bill Street; Henry Street, and Ed Street. He might have owned more but I heard my father say he o~ed those, My father said his white people weren t very wealthy, He and his bfother had to go and cut cordThood, both summer and ~rinter. And they ~as allowed so much work ftr a task, Their task was nine cords a week for ~ch mane That was eq~ueI to a cord and a half a day for each man each days ~ father would cut his wood like a man. ought to cut it. Iit he said ~:r und e d.xi t gi t at his task. He would drink whiskey all the week0

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2. 247 They d get after him about bein behind with hia work, btit he would say, t Never mind that ; I woii t be behind Monday ru ~ Sunday morning at nine O~ clock, he would get up and begin to cut on that wood, And on Monday morning at nine clock, he would have nine cords cut for his white ~o1ks and four or five for himself. It would all be done before nine o clock Monday morning, ~ Living Brother I recently seen my brother Teff Davis Street. I haventt seen him before for sixty-one years. He blew in here from Texas with a man named Professor &uggers. He lives ix~. Malakoff, Texas. It s been sixty one yeari since he was where I could see huir, but he says he saw me fifty-.nine years ago. He came back home and I was sleep, he says, and he didn t wake me up. He rambled around a little and stood and looked at me awhile, he says. He was seventeen years old and I was twelve, My brother had a lot of children, He had four girls with him. He had a boy somewheres, He is older than I am.. ni heard my father say that in. time of war, they were taking up folka that wouldn t join them and putting them in prison. They picked a white fellow up and. had him tied with a rope and carried him down to a creek and were tying him up by his thum.bs, He saw r~y father coming and said: There s a colored man I know. My father said he knew him. They let him go when my father said he knew him and that he didn t harbor bushwhackers. Every time he saw my father after that he would say, BiU you sure did save my life. My~ father and mother lived in a log cabin. They had homemade furniture, They had a bunk up aide the wall and a trundle bed, That was the cabin they lived in in. slavery time~

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3. 248 Soldier. My father said once that when. the men. were gone, the soldiers c~ in and asked the women to cook for them. They wouldn t do it; so the soldiers made them bring them a chunk of fire~ They throwed the fire on the bed and when it got to burning good, the officer wouldn t let them put it out. ~it be told them that they could get some of the boys to help them carry out the jr things if the boys were willing to do it It was the officers who wanted the women to cook for them. It wasn t the slaves they asked; it. ~ the white folks. Sold His Master nI heard my stepmother-..~I call her my rnother.--~say something once. She belonged to a white family named Bell. They bad a lot of slaves~ My stepmother was the house girl; so she could get on to a lot of things the others couldn t. She stayed in the house. That was in slavery times. The speculators who were buying colored folks would put up at that place. Looked like a town but it aU belonged to one person. The name of the place was Cloverdale Tennessee My ste~iuother said that a gang of these folks put up at Cloverdale once and then went on to Nashville Tennessee On the next day a nigger sold the speculator. He was educated an~ a mulatto, and he sold his master in with a bunch of other niggers. 11e was just fixin to take the money, when his master got aware of it, and come on up just in time I t know what happened to the nigger. It . was just an accident he got caught. My ate~inother said it was true. Good Masters My mother had a good master. At least, she said he was good, Slaves from other plantations would run away and come to her master s place to stay. They would stay a good while

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4. 249 My father ~a1d his master was goodto him too. My father s young master has come to see us since the War. He got down low and used to ccme round. My father ~ou1d give him turna of corn. You know when you used to go to the mill, you would carry about two bushels ot corn and call lt a millIng or a turn. My father would let his young master shell a bushel or two of corn arid carry lt to the mill. He got poor and sure nough you see, ~e had moved away from them then, and he got In real hard luck. He used to come and sit a half day at a time at our house. And father would give him the corn for his Thnhlly. We were living in Dickson County, Tennessee then, Seems like we was on Frank Hudson s place . We dn t bought a place for ourselves then. Ku Klux Klan You know they used to bi klux the niggers. They went to the house after the War of an old man named Hall. They demanded for him to let them In. but he wouldn t They said that they would break open the door if he didn t let them In. He didn t let them in, and they broke it down. When they started In, his wife threw fire brands in amongst em and he knicked one down with an ax. Them that wasu t hurt carried the wounded man away and it was reported the next day that he was sick. They never did bother the nigger no 1110X5 and he never had no charges made against him. Riuiaway Negroes ~ After Freedomi It was over forty years ago. Me and my wife lived at a big saws. mill near ~lliott, Arkansas, just ten miles outside of Camden. White folks used to come up there and catch niggers and carry them back to Louisiana with them, claiming that they owed debts. One time two white men Carne to lliott looking for a nigger. They came through the Negro quarters

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5. 250 and all the men. were off that day because it was a holiday. The nigger saw them first and ran to the woods. They ran after him and cau.ght him. They canie back through the quarters and tied him to one of the horses and then went on to Lou1siana~-.them ridin and him walkin tied up with his aims behind him and roped to the horse like he was some kind of cattle or some~ thint. The ni~gers followed them with g~ins a little distance, but one nigger telephoned to El Dorado and the officers there were on the lookout for thorn. At night, the officers in plain clothes went over and chatted with them white men, When they saw the nigger, they asked what it was they had there. They told the one that asked that it was a damn nigger that owed money back in Louisiana and got smart and run away without paying up. The officers drew their ~xns and puthandcuffa on them and carried them and the ~ nigger away to jail. They put everybody in jail that night. ~t the next morning they ~ brought them to trial and fined the white men. a hundred and fifty dollar. apiece and after the trial they turned the nigger loose. That broke up the stealing of niggers. Before that they would come and take a Negro whenever they wanted to. Niggers were just beginning to wake u~p then, and know how to slip away and run off. We had whole ramilles there that had run off one by one The man would run away and leave his children, and as they got old enough, they would follow him one by one. Right After the War Right after the War my people tanned on 8haree. We had a place we leased on the Hudson place that we stayed on. We leased lt for five year. but we stayed there seven or maybe eleven years.

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6. i UPl~t~) When we left there we bought a place of our owit. On the Thidaoxi place we cleared up about thirty acres ot land and teiided lt ai long as we stayed there~ We p~it out a lot of fruit trees on it. Had Iota of peaches, and plums, and quinoes.~do you know what quinces are? an.d danvil8 (these danvil piwus you know) They are kinda purple looking fruit made In the shape of a prune. They are bout two inches through -~jus about half as big as your fist. ~ When we moved to our own place we stayed in the same county. ~ It was just about three4ourtha of a mile from the Hudson place-. .west of lt. Moving to Arkansas WI came to Arkansas with the Intention ct going to school. ~tt I jus messed myself up. Instead of goin to school, I went and got marrIed, I was out here just one year before I got married.. I married the first time in l88?-~-.Fobruary fourteenth, ~ I think. ky first wife taken sick with rheumatism and she died in 1908. We were married thirty..one years. I niarried again about 1913. Vocat ions. . Experiences When I was able to work, I worked in the railroad shops~boi1er maker a helper. Before that I famned and did other things. Went from trackrnan to machinist s helper and boilermaker s helper. Opinion.a Young folks just need the right handlin . I don t mix in polities.

[Interview with Tanner, Liza Moore] 259 254

30769 ~ ~ 254 Interviewer MiSe Irene Robert8on ~ Person intervlewod Llza Moore Panner~Ee1ena~ Arkansas ~ I was born in north Georgia. It was not ~r frora Bonie. We belong to Liaster Belt on Moore and Mise Jane Moore ~ They had a big family sanie grand~ childr n old as their own. That was my job playing wid the c~hi1dren. My parents naine Rob Moore and Pilfy Galley. She lived five miles from Belton }:jOOre f s hou.se, She was hired out over at Moore s the way she and papa niet up. I know now I was hired out too. I run after them children a long time it seemed like to me. I loved them and they cried after me. I ~et so tired I d slip off and go up in the loft and soon be asleep. I learned to climb a 1a~der that very way. It was nailed up straight against the side oi~ the w-ail. They d ask me where I been. They never did whoop me fer that. I tell eni I been sleep. I drapped off sleep. I was so tired. Papa helped with the young calves and the feeding and in the field too. Mania was a fast hand in the field. They called her a little guinea woman. She could outdo me when I was grown and she was ~ettin~ old. She washed fer the Calley s. .ai i remember they was a old man and woman. Llama lived in the office at ~ their house, He let her ride a horse to Moore s to work. I rode home wid ~ her many a time. She rode a side saddle. I rode sicIeway8 too. She used. a batt1jn~ stick long as she lived when she washed, Papa died two years after the surrender ~n Atlanta, Georgia. The 1Ioore s nioved there and he went alone. He left mama at Master Calley s ~and I was st ill kept at the old honie place Aunt J~il1y kept me

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2. ~ lL~sd~)lL) and my two olc e$t sisters. Her naine was 1Tilly Galley. I seen xn~ia right often. They fetched pepa back to see us a few times and then he died. We all went to Atlanta where he was buried, Mamalived to be purty nigh a hundred years old. She had fourteen children. I had two sisters and eight half-brothers and three half-sisters, Some died so young they never was named. My stepfather was mean to her and beat her, caused some of their deaths.. She was a midwife in her later years. She made us a living tiLl I married. She was gone with Dr. Harrison a lot. He d come take her off and bring her honie in the buggy. I married and immigrated to t~1l, Arkansas. We lived there a year and went to Memphis. Mama come there and died. at my house. She ~ot blind. Had to lead her about. My steppapa went off and never come back. He got drunk whenever he could get to it. We hunted him and asked about him. I think he went off with other women. We heard he did, Freedom~- I heard Miss ~Tane say when she was packing up to go to ~tianta, I will et a nurse there. They wifl make her go to school. I thought she was talking about me. I wanted to go. I loved the children1 I ~ot to go to school in the country a right smart I can read and write, i:e arid my two sisters all was in the same class. It seemed strange then. ~e had a colored man teacher, Mr. ~Tacobin. It was easier for me to learn than my sisters. They are both dead now, I got three living chi1dren -~one here and two in Memphis. After I got L~y hip broke I live about with them so they can ~vait on me. I don t know about this new way of living, My daughter in Memphis ~ rcj sing her little gIrl by a book. She don t learn her as nn.~ch manners as Children used to know. She got it from the white lady she works for1 It telle ho~ to do your child0 Times done changed too nuch to suit my way of knowing~

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3. 25G The Old Time Religion is the only good. pattern fer raising a family. Mighty little of that now,

[Interview with Taylor, Anthony] 264 259

~I)~ ~ Interviewer Samuel 3. Ta~y1pr ~ . Person interviewed AnthonjTaylor 2424 L Ninth Street, Little Rock, Arkansas AgB ~ or ?8~? - ~ _ - ~ ~ * ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ - ~ ~ ~ *~ ~m ~m ~ ~ I was born In Clark County adjoining Hot Spring County, between Malvern and Arkadelphia. Clark County was named after old man General Clark, 112 W~8 worth tour or five thousand acres of land. My father s name was Anthony McClellan. Why they called me Anthony Taylor was my stepfather was named Taylor. My mother s name was Iattie SunnaviUe. My mother has been dead thirty or forty years and my father died six months before I was borne He died a natura . death, 8icknesa~ He was exposed and died ot pneuraonia. Fayette Sunnaville was my grandfather on my s side That was my mother s father0 Rachel Sunnaville was my mother s mother s name, I don t know the names of zay father s people. They was sole in slavery, But it s been so far back; I don t remember nothing, and I don t know whether they would or not if they was living, We stayed on the old plantation for seven or eight years before we had sense enough or knowed enou~gh to get away from there and git something for ourselves, That is how I cone to raise such big potatoes. I been raising theni fifty years. These are hill potatoes. You have to know how to raj~e potatoes to grow em this big, (He showed u~ 8O~ potatoes, Sweet, weighing about seven pounds~ ed.) I have heard my mother and my grandfather tell lots of stories about slavery, I can t remem~ber them. #768 259

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2. 261) Old man ~i11ocka had about eight or ten familles that I knew about, Those were the tataillea that lived right Aear us in the quartera I didn t say eight or ten banda I said eight or ten ramilles. Them was the ones that was right near Us. We was awful ~ua11 after freedom but them what was with him stayed with him quite a while. 8tayed with the old master. He would pay them so much after treedcui~ comes Lawd, I cou1~i tel . you things about slavery. &~t l in forgitful and I can t do lt all at once. He had the whole county from Arkadeiphia clean down to Princeton and Thlip our old mars dId. Lonolce was between Princeton and Tulip. Princeton was the countyu~aeat. He imist have had a large number of slaves. Those ten families I knew was just those close ~ round us. Most of the tarin was fui? pine country land. There would be thirty or torty acres over here o~ cultivation and then thirty or forty acres over there of woods and so on. Ho had more land than anybody else but it wasn t ai . ander cultivation. B s been dead now twenty or thirty years, I don t know that he was mean to his slaves. If he had been, they wouldn t have gone on after freedom. They would have moved out You see they d dn t care for nothing but a little something to eat and a fine dress and they would have gone on to somebody else and got that. Wasn t no law then. He was the law. I worked aU day long for ten cents a day. They would allowance you so many pounds of meat so much mea ., so much molasses, I have worked ail day for ten cents and then gone out at night to get a few potatoes. I haire pulled potatoes all day for a peck of meal and I was happy at that. I never did know what the price of cotton was. Where we was, the Ku Klux never did bother anybody. A . . there was, every time we went out we had to have a pass.

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3. My grandfather and grandmother were both whipped aometimee, I don t know the man that whipped them. I don t know whether it was the agent or the owner or who, but they were whipped. Lote of timea they had work to do and didn t do it. Naturally they whipped them for it. That was what they whipped roy ~randpareuts for, Sometimee too, they would go off and wouldn t let the white folks know where they wa~ going. Sori~t1mea they would neglect to feed the horses or to milk the cows something like that. That was the only reason I ever heard of for punishing them. I heard that if the boss man wanted to be with women that they had, the women would be scared not to be with him for tear he would whip them. And when they started whipping them for that they kept on till they got what they wanted. They would take them way off and have dealin~a with them. That la where so much of that yellow and half. white CO~O8 trcm. There was SOE~ one going through telling the people that they waa tree and that they was their o~ boss. ~it yet and still, there s lots of them never did leave the man they was with and lots of them left. There was lot s of white people that wouldn t let a nigger tell their niggera that they was free, because they wanted to keep them blind to that for years. Kept them for three or tour years anyway, Them that Jitliocks liked was crazy about him~ He would give them a show.. so much a month and their keeps. I don t rernetaber exactly how much it was but lt was neighborhood price, He was a pretty good man. Of course, you never seen a ihite man that wouldn t chaat a little. H d cheat you out of a little cotton. ils would have the cotton Carried to the gin. Ha would take half the corn and give us five or Six shoats. After he got the cotton aU. picked and sold, the cotton it would al ~ go to him for what you owed him for furnishing you0

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4. You never s~ how much cotton was ginned, nor how nuch he got for it, nor how naich it waa worth nor nothing. They would just tell you you wasn t due nothing. They did that to hold you for another year. You got nothing to move on so you stay there and take what he gives you. . of all the crying you ever heard, one mondng we d got up and the pigs and hogs in the lot that we had fattened to go on that winter, he was catching them. After we d done tattened them with the corn that was our share, he took em and sold ein, We didn t even know we owed him anything. ~e thought the crops had done settled things, Nobody told us nothin . All we children cried4 The old man and the old woman didn t say nothing, because they was scared, My mother would get up and go down and milk the COWS and what ~ d get for the milking would n~ybe be a bucket of buttera.. We d have a spoonful of black molasses and corn bread and buttermilk for breakfast. We got flour bread once a week. We would work hard all the week talkin t bout what good bi sc~it s we d have Sunday morning. Sack of flour would last two or three x~ionths because we dn t cook flour bread only once a week~Saturday night or Sunday morning, I We had no skillet at that t ime We would rake the fireplace and push the ashes back and then you would pit the cake down on the hearth or on a piece of paper or a leaf and then pull the ashes over the cake to cook it. Just like you roast a sweet potato. Then when it got done, you would rake the ashes back and wash the cake and you would eat lt. Soinetiiaes you would strike a little grit or gravel in it and break your teeth. But then I m tellin you the truth about lt. When our hogs was taken that time, we didn t have nothing to go on that winter, They would compel us to stay. They would allowance us so~. meat

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59 t~~sUt~) and make US split rails and. clear up land for it, It waa a cinch i~ he d idn t give lt to you you o a~i1dn t get noth in . Wasn t no way to get not :i1ng~ Then when crop time rolled round again they would take it all out of your CrOp8. Make you split rails and wood to earn your meat and then Charge I t up to your crop anyhow. ~xt you couidn t do nothin bout it. Scmetin~a a bari~elof mOlaa8es would aet up in the ~nokehou8e and turn to sugar. You goin hungry and molasses ~aetin . They wa~ determined not to give you too much ot it, I made my way by farming. After I got to be some Bize I started at it. I farmed all my lite. While I could work, things was pretty goode V~isht I was on a farm now. Even when I in round here sick, X can git these potatoes raised with a little help from the nelghborsG I don t belong to church, I oughter, but I don t. Then again, I figure that a man can be just as good out ot it as he can in it, I vo got good desires, but I never confessed to the public, I have had three hundred dollars worth of stuff stolen fran me, Everything I produced is stolen from me because I have no way to protect myself. What I raise ir I don t get shet of it right away, the people get shet or it ~or me, I had eighty head of chickens in the barn out there runnin round, When I got sick and was in the bed and u.ldn t help my~ self, the chickens went. In the daytime, they would fix trap8 and jerk a string and pull a board down on them and then go out in the weeds and get them. I never reported nothin to the police, I wasn t able to report nothing. I was just batching, and now and then people would come in and report them to me. They would wait till they saw somebody come in aiid when they saw that I was talking and wouldn t notice them,

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6. 264 they would 8tea). anything they wanted, The police came by here and ran them once . Th~it that didn t do no good, Once somebody atole an autcniatlc shotgun, They stole a colt one t mie They stole all my clothes and pained them to a whi skey dealer, Ee got sent to the pen for selling whiskey, but I didn t get my clothea, They come in the yard and steal my potatoes, coUarde, turnips, ochre (okra ?) and 80 Ofl, I lay there in the bed and see them, but I can t stop them. All I can do 18 to holler, You better go on and let them things alone. E~ver since the last war, I haven t been able to work. I em bare feeted and naked now on account o~ not bein able to support myself, nI just cc~ out ot the hospitals I been too sick even to work in my garden. After I come hone I taken a backset but I am still staying here, I am just here on the mercies of the people. I don t get nothing but what the people give ~ ~ I t get no niodditles nor from the Govern.. nient. I am t never been able to get no help froni the Governn~nt ~ Long time ago, I went down to the place and asked for help and they told ins that since I was alone I oughta be able to help myself~ They giuime a ticket ~or twenty meals and told me by the time I ate them up, they might have something else they could do ~or me0 I told them I couldn t go back and forth to git the nieals, I have the ticket now, I couldn t git to the place to use it none, so I keep it tor a keepsake, It is round here soraewheres or other, I was past the pension age. I am t been able to do 110 steady work since the war, I was too old for the war- the World 1~ r

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7. r Z Interviewer s Ccimnen~ The spelling of the nau~ Sunnaville is phonetic. the name sud he couldn t spell lt of course, When I called, he had potatoes that weighed at least seven pounda, They were laid out on the porch for sale He had a small patch in hie yard which he cultivated, and had gotten about ten bushels from it. His account of slavery times Is 30 vivid that you would consider his age nearer eighty than sixty.-eight~ A little questioning reveals that he has no idea of his age although he readily gives it as sixty-~eight- -a memorized figure, I don t recognize

[Interview with Taylor, Lula] 271 266

~ ~ ~ t ~ ~:~j~)J_ ~ #678 2o(i Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Lila Ta~rlor ~LF.D., iast of town, Brinkley, Arkansai ~ My mother was sold five times. She was sold when she was too little to remember her mother. Her mother was Charity Linnerman. They favored, She was dark and granny was light colored. l~y mother didn t love her :nother like I loved her, Granny lived in a house behind the white church (?) in Helena, After freedom we kept writing till we got in tetch with her, We finally got granny with us on the .Tefferies place at Clarendon. A man (Negro) coxae by and conjured my mother. She was with Miss Betty ~ eed (or Reid) up north of Lonoke, They was my raother s last owners, That old man made out like she stole things when he stole them his own black self. t d make her hide ou~t like she stole things ~ She had a sweetheart and him and his wife, &e had to live with them. They stole her off from her last o ~iier, Miss BettyReed. They didn t like her sweetheart. They was going to n ~arry. He bou~ght all her wedding clothes. When she didn t marry him she i~t him have back all the weddin clothes and he buried. his sister in them. ~This old man was a conjurer. He give my mother a cup of some kind of herbs and made her drink it. He tole her all her love would go to Henry Deal. He liked hirn. He was~ ~ papa. Her love sure did leave her sweetheart and go to my papa. He bought her soins nice clothes. She married in the clothes he ~ot her, She was so glad to let go that old man and woman what conjured her ~ from her white folks to wait on them,

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2. ~dU ( r~ny s head was all spilt open. I lived to see all that ~ ~h1te folks said her husband done lt but she said one o~ her old niaeter a struck her on the head with a shoe last. Ny papa said he d hit boards and stood on them ai . day one after another working cold days. lAaster Wade Deal at freedom give papa a pair of chickens, goats, sheep, turkeys, a cow; and papa cleared ten. acres of ground to pay for his first mule He bought the mule from Master Wade Deal. Old Master Deal used to run us from behind hirn plowing. V(~ tease him, say what he d say to the horse or mule. He d lock us up In the smokehouse. we d eat dried beet and go to sleep. He was a good old man, Grandpa Henry Pool went to war. Papa was sold from the Pools to the Deals Grandpa played with us. He d put us all up on a horse we called old Bill. He said he ~ot so used to sleeping on his blanket on the ground in war tiIfl 8 till he couldn t sleep on a bed. He couldn t get oft asleep, Grandpa found a pitcher of gold money been burled in old Master Pool s stable, He give it to them. They knowed it was out there, ~1other was with Miss Betty Reed in most of war times. Miss Betty hid their jewelry and money. She spoke of the Yankee~ coming and kill pretty chickens and drink up a churn of fresh milk turned ready for churning, It be in the chimney corner to keep wai~a, They d take fat horses and turn t:r~ejr poor ones in the lot. They never could pass up a fat hog. They cleaned out the corn crib, All my kin folks was field hands. I ploughed all day long. Papa said his oie rnistress Deal was out under an apple tree peeling apples to dry. A white crane flew over the tree and fluttered about over here Next day she died. Then the old man married a younger woman,

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3. 68 It is so about the pigeon8 at Pi~aon Roost (Wattensaw, Arkansaa). They weighted trees down till they actually broke limba and swayed plenty of them. That was the richest land you ever seen in your life when it was cleared off, Folks couldn t rest for killing pigeons and waeted them aU up. I was born at Pigeon Roost on. .Tixri High s place ~ I seen a whole wa3hpot Th~ll of stewed pigeon. It was tine eating, It wa8 a 8harne to waate up all the pigeons and clear ou~t the place.

[Interview with Taylor, Warren] 278 273

30835 t~.d f Interv1ewer~~_~ SaraueiS.Tajlor Person interviewed WarrenTa~y1or . 3200 W. Seventeenth Street, Little Rock, Arkansas Age ~ My people are all from Richmond, V1r~inia. I was just four years old when they corne here ~ My father was in ehar~e of all the machinery. He ran the gin. Didn t do anything else, ~ iy mother was a house girl. The kids learned her everything they learned in school. She knew everything. My father died when I was young. My mother lived till she was eighty. Brt the time she was fifty, I bou~ht her a home and sat her down on Pulaski Street in that home0 And that is why I have so little trouble. My ma belonged to Hoffman. He sold her to Wiley Adams. He carried her to Mississippi. She stayed there for a short time and then came to kansas. He settled in a little place called Tulip, Arkansas. Then freedom carne and we came to Little Rock and settled at what is now Seventh und Ringo Streets; but then it was just a stage road leading to Benton, ~rkadelphia, and other places. Stages passed twice a day with passengers and freight. No railroads at all then. The government kept the roath~ up. They had the arsenal hail where the city park is and had a regiment of soldiers there. The work on that road was kept up ~ by the soldiers, That was under Grant s administration, I never saw but three presidents..-three DEmocratic presidents ~Cleveland, Wilson, and Roosevelt. My father s master was named Lee. He married my mother back in 1iir~inia, My daddy s people when he was freed was neined Taylor. He died when I was young and he never gave nie any details about them. I

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2. 274 Good ~ Maetei~a The ~damsea were good. to my mother, And they help her ven after freed i~ Charlie Adams and Mack Adams of Malvern, Arkansas. J ohn was the sheriff and ran a 8tore Mack waa a drummer for the Penz . Grocery~. When. my mother was ill, he used to brin her thirty douars at a tune. Every two months she had to go down to Malvern wh n she wae well and carry an empty trunk and when she would come back it would be f~u11. My mother wae wet-~nurse to the Adwnses and they thought the world and all of her. Marriage . . They had a good opinion of the ix . house servante. That i a how she end lily father came to belong to different families, One white man wotild say to the other, I got a good boy. l in going to let him come over to see your girl . He would be talking about a Negro men that worked around his ~ house and a Negro girl that worked for the other man. That would b all right. So ha s the way my father went to see my mother. He was married in the way they always married in those days, You know how it was. There was no marriage at all. They just went on. out and got the woman and the white man said, There she is. You are man and wife. Right After the War My father died before freedom. My mother lived with him until her folks moved away from his folks. Then she was separated from him and left hj~ra in Mlssi~sippi. She belonged to one white man and he to another, and tilat could happen any time. Right after freedctn, she stayed with these white people, doing the hou~~ work. She had the privilege of raising things for herself. She made a barden, and raised vegetables and such like,

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~%a~4 P~. 3. My brother who had run off during slavery time and who later became a preacher in the North Invited us to live ix~ the city with him. Vocational Experiences I wasn t fourteen years old when I was tending to flowers for the Cairo and ?u.lton Railroad. That was a railroad which later beean~e Missouri pacific. They beautified everything. There wasn~ t any bridge ~ They had a boat to take you into the town of ~rgenta then, and when the trains caxne through, the same boat would carry the cars across. Au engine would be on the other side to finish the journey with them. There is one engineer living now who was active In that tuna, Charlie Jeymour, retired, of Little Rock. He used to run the first train over the Baring Cross Bridge and then he ran the first engine over the new bridge hr. He had already been retired when they finished the new bridge but ~hey had him pull the first train over the new bridge because he had pulled ~he first one over the old bridge. They wanted to give him that honor, My manager in that time was Superintendent A. E. Buchanan. From this work, I was advanced to the office and stayed there twenty years. I served under Coriunissioner Thomas Essex and later under Coumiis-~ sioner J . A. Dean. This service included twenty years in various departments. After that I billed freight for the Missouri Pacific at the Baring Cross 3torerooms under Mr. H. S. Turner for eight months or more. Then I was transferred, because the location was not good for my health, to I~ ~oto, Missouri, forty~.fbive miles this side o~ St. Louis. Sedentary work had proved bad for me and I needed more active work. I waited on the master mechanic there. After that I caine back to Little Rock and worked

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40 for the Pacific ~xpress Company under Mr. G. F. Johnson, superintendent. -7 after th~at, I worked for the c~,uapaw Club during its heyday when 3~ohnie Boyle, Ho11enber~, Acie Bragg, ~i11 Mitchell, Mr. Cottrna.n, Captain Shaw, Lll~1d oodles of others were nierabers, Mr. L~ioorehead V~hite was secretary. ~~fter that I went to doing my own work. Now I aim past my prime and I do the best I can with what little help j- ~et from the government. I ~et eight dollars a month and commodities. :.!r. Roosevelt has ~ot guts. Mighty few men would attempt to do what he has ~~cne. He is the greatest humanitarian president the country has ever had. But I ve ~ot a pile of recorrmiendations. I ve got recommendations Thomas Essex, Land Commi ssionar St Louis Iron Mountain, and Southern Railway ~. 3. Thomas, Geologist, St. Louis, Iron Mountain, Southern ST. R. Harvey, General I~ oreman of Bridges axid Building G. ~. . Deane, Land Commissioner succeeding Essex, St. Louis, Iron Liountain, and Southern S. Vi. Moore, General Secretary, Hallway Y. M. C. A. Arthur B. Washburn, Superintendent, Arkansas Deaf Mute Institute A. C. St. Clair, Manager olb the College of Physicians and Surgeons (Note comment) ~ou can read these for yourself, and you see what they say. They can t get ~ viork now, but it s groat to know you did good work and be able to prove it. The same commodities they give now were given in 1870. They :~~d what they called the ~?ree&aan s Bureau. rfiley used to have what ~e~r called the LICK ~KILLD~T on Spring Street from Fifth to Seventh.

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~# Leastwlse, the colored people called it that. ~.iah and a lot8 of other big niggers used to go there and get free lodgings until they were able to get along alone without help. The niggers they call BIG NIG~ERS now stayed in wagon yards when they first come here. Former Morals There was a tiras when a 1ow-~down person, colored or white, couldn t stay in the coxrimunity. They would give him a ticket and send him to i~emphis or somewhere else. Reuben~White built the First Baptist Church. In tho$e days, people ~ere Christian. White baptized one hundred fifty people twice a month. You didn t have to put a lock on youz door then. Bachelor I haven t been married; marriage holds a man back, A wonian won t do as she is told. Successfti.l Negroes in Little Rook They had three Negro aldermen in this city: one of them was Green Thompson; but the Negroes butchered him. He was murdered as he cerne in .~rom a fe st ival M. V~. Gibbs Land Office Man for the Government was the only nigger here who wasn t bothered by no one~-~-by no colored person. Dr. Jmith was the leading colored dentist once, and tbe1ead1n~ dentist of the city in his day. Almost all the white people went to him. Colored people had the barber shops. MoNair had a barber shop on Main between Second and Third, His boy killed him~~no good reason. His boy went to school with i ~9 ; he was always stubborn and mean,

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-- 6. Henry Powell . was jailer here once Sam Wilkins, a man that weighed about three hundred pounds, was the turnkey at the penitentiary. He lived in one of the finest houses in the town at that time. Nigger bands had all the music then. I have seen white organizations like the Odd Fellows and IAasons follow Negro bands. Nigger orchestras played here all the big to~doa among white people. White people used to get nigger dancers to con~e here to dance and show them so that they could learn the late steps. Colored caterers had the big jobs. Henry Miller was one of them. lie s going pretty strong still. You get corne smart niggers round the I:arion Hotel right now. We used. to have some smart cooks. But they did too much peddling out of the back door. Dishonesty put them back. Thite people have taken all that work now. The nigger ruined himself in this town. They are paying white men now f~or what they know~, They used to pay :ii~ger8 for what they knowed, Opinions If the government would give you a j ob today, niggers would be up to t&~e you out of it tomorrow. Niggers are dirty, and these round here are ~~orant. The parents don t teach the children, and the children can t amount to anything. 1 children are not taught to work, they will never have ~cthing, A bunch of the se young people don t mean tp work They just lay round waiting for the old people to die so they can get what little the old folks accumulated and run through it. But a man never keeps what he iii~~self doesn t earn. He can t. The children are raised now without manners. When I have to go past Capitol Hill School, I have to get off the sidewalk,

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r, I i~in t nothin but these graduates teachin now, young graduates that don t know nothin but runnin about. When I come along, the carpet,4.baggers were teaching and they knew their business, Mrs. Stephens went to Fisk and finished there, Mrs. Spight graduated from Union High School. ~e had all white teachers at first. Miss Sarah Henley used to teach with old exslave s where the Bethel L M. E Church j s now. There wasn t no church there then ~just a little shanty. I was just five years old. My mother used to take rue there and leave me, but she taucht me herself at home. She taught me just like I see you teach your kids, Boys doia t do nothi.ng but play now. They had to hustle then. They can t do nothing now. They have this departmental system now, They didn t have it then, The different temperaments ruin children. They used to review, flow they don t. They change text books ao fast the old ones can t be sold0 Interviewer s Con~nent Warren Taylor holds recommendations from a number of prcniinent people referring to his excellent character, high morals, unusual intelligence, ~iide information, industry, thrift, honesty, and trustworthiness. Some of the flaIflO8 occur In the interview. The letters and documenta proving h18 long service and good record were brought out during the interview and L~!ven to nie to read, He has eu unu8ual memory and penetrating insight into condi~ j; j ons.

[Interview with Teel, Mary] 287 282

)~~T) ~jk):~7? ( )M Interviewer Mi~ Irene Robertson Pex 50n Interviewed Mart Tee . . a- - ~ Grove, Ar~k. Age ~74~ Our Ma5terz was Wade and Curls. M153 Fannie wa~ Mazter T3 wife They wa~ kin $omehow. I heard Ma ~ay they wou .dn t ~ let their boy5 work. ~ We girls gro~d up together. They called Ma C~sin . Ma ~ay $he corne from Marshal County Tennessee to Holly Spring$ MIs a i~ s ippi She never did ~ee her pa. My papa s papa wa$ ab~i~1~~ man. My pa wa~ Lewis Brlttman. He wa~ a carriage driver. He made and mended shoe8. My Ma wa~ a fine cook. She had nine children but je3 three living now. One of the girl5 Mi!3 Fannle 3 girlz - nmrried boutwhen I did. We je~ growd up lack that. I left the girl5 at Mt. Plea5ant, Mis3i3zippl1 I stayed on their place a while. I wish I had money to go back to my old home and ~ee ail tern livin . I never heard em say if they give em soinepin . Pa lernt us to do all kind3 of work. He knowd how to do nearly everything cause he was brought up by white folks, Measles broke out, then small pox and the white folks put us in a room all together at thewhite house so we could be seen after. We lay on the same beds. My brother would whistle. I was real little but I member it well as yester-. day. Ma ~ay stop whistlin in that bed and Miss Fannie say let him whistle I want to hear him cause I know he better, They say it bad luck to sing in bed or look in the lookin -glass (mirror) if you in the bed, We all got over it.

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2. . 283 Pa made U3 go clean. He mademe comb arid wrap my hair every night. I had. prutty hair then. I had tetter and it all come out I ha ~ to wear thi s old. wig now, When I wa~ young my eye-sight got bad, they aaid. meas .e3 settled in em and to help ein Ma had the3e hole$ put in em. (in her ears ) I been wearin earbob8 purt nigh aU my life. . The Ku Klux never bothered us They never corne . nigh our hou3e no time. Pa died and Ma married a old man. They stayed in the same place a while. When Pa died he had cattle and ztock that why I don t know if he got 3 nepin at Freedom. He had plenty., ~ We lived at Holly Springs (Mi~$.) when they started the first colored $ohools. There waz tbree lady teachers. I think a man. One of the white teachers boarded at my Ma s. On Saturday the other two eat there. I recollect Ma cooking and. fixing a big dinner Saturday. No white folks let em stay ~dth em or speak to em. They was sent from up north to teach the darky chaps I was one went to school. They t t nice like my white folks then neither. They paId high board and white folks sent em to Ma so she get the money. I was 14 years old when I marrIed. I lived wid my husband more an 50 years. We got long what I ze tellin you. This youngset ain t got no raisin reason they cain t stand one nother. I don t let em come in my yard. I cain t raise no children, I m too old. and they am t got no ma~mers and the big ones got no sense. 3es wild. They way they do. They live together a while and

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3. 284 quit. Both them soon livin wid somebody else. Thatwhat churches fer, to marry in. Heap of em ain t dom it. No children don t come here tearin up what I work and have. I don t let em come in that gate. I have to work so hard in my old days. I picked cotton. I can, by pickin hard, make a dollar a day. I cooked ten years fore I stopped. I eain t hold up at it. I washed and ironed till the washing machinez ruined that work fer all of us black folks. Silk finery and wa~hin machines ruint the black folks. Ma named Elsie Langston and Lewis Langston. They took that name z omehow after the old war C Civil War ). I recken it wa$ her old master s name. After I was married and had children I washard up, I went to a widow woman had a farm but no men folks She say, If you live here and leave your little children in my yard and take my big boys and learn en to work, I will cook. On Saturday you wash and iron. She took me in that way when my color dn t help me I stayed there - between Memphis and Holly Springs. I live hard the way I live. I pick cotton when I can t go hardly. They did give me a little cor~miodity but I lose half day work if I go up there and wait round . 1 ~ know what they give me. I don t get a cent of the penshun.

[Interview with Thomas, Dicey] 292 287

30957 . 28~ Interviewer ~ Sairniel S. Ta;lor - -- - - - -s _ - u~_: ~ ~ iP .~--~~~ ii i~i~ ~ - 1~ ~ Person interviewed ~ ~ ~ Dice7 ThCmaa n. - b~~ e~3? StiSet : ~iWfe ~oci~Arkaii~ai Age_w .~~A~ctut 8tr_lb I was born in Barbour County, Alabama. When I was born, the white folks kept the children s age not that of their parents. When the Yankees caine through our white folks plantation, the white folks was hiding away things. I~ther My tather was named Ben See See was my maiden name Thomas cornea from my marriage. Yankees It was about twelve o clock when the Yankees cane through, because we had just gone to bring the bowls. They used to serve us out of these gourds and wooden spoons. Me and another little girl had gone to get some bowls and spoons and when we got back the Yankees were swarming over the place. They said, You are tree. Go where you please. My mother had a little baby. The old women ~uld tend to this baby and we would sit and rock the cradle till mother would come. I know I wasn t very old because I didn t do anything but sit and rock the baby. I had just gotten big enough to carry the bowls. When the Yankees cerne through they stole Ben 8e s horse and brought him out here in Arkansas. In those days, they used to brand horses,

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2. 288 Sciv~ woman out here In Arkansaa recognized the horse by hia brand an.d wrote to huit about it He came out a~d got the horse We had gone by that time. Visiting the Graves Beii See used to take the little darkies to the cemetery and show thm where their master and misais wa~ laying. lie never would sell none of hie ~ather s 81avea. The $lave Block He would buy other slaves and sell them though. He u8ed to ~iy little kids that couldn t walk. Maybe some big white man would come that would want to buy a nigger. He used to have servants in the yard and he would have the slave s he d bought saved up. One of the yard servants would catch a little nigger with his head all knotty and tilled with twigs. He would swinge the hair and the little nigger would yell, but he wouldn t be hurt, He had a block ~iilt up high just like a meat block out in the yard. He would have the yard man bring the little niggers out and put them on this block, I don t know nothing about their parents, who they were nor where they were. All I know he would have this child there what d done bought, flit there would be about rive or six corne in, here s this nigger sitting up here. Here s a lot of folks waitin to buy him. One would say, I bid so much. Another would say, I bid so much. That would go on till the biddin got as high as it would go. Then the little nigger would go to the highest bidder if the bid suited master.

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3. 289 Ages My mother and rather didn t know their age. The white folks kept the ages, and that was something they dn t allow the slaves to handle. I must have been four or five years old when my mother was In the field, because I wasn t allowed to take the baby out of~ the cradle but just to sit and rock it. Arkansas Then I come to Arkansas, stages was running from Little Rock toward Pine Bluff. Jesse J~emes robbed the Pine Bluff train. That the first train caine in. They cut down the trees across the train They had a wooden gun and they went in there and robbed that train They sent him to the pen and he learned a trade making cigars. . The Union Station was just like that hillside. It was just in the tom, I don t know what year nor nothing about it because came here it was just like somebody didn t have any sense. down about track. with it. one street when I Plantation The slave quarter was a row of houses. The plantation was high land. The houses were little log houses with one room. They had fire arches. They would hang pots over the fire. They would have 8plders that you call ovens. You would put coals on top of theapider and you would put them under it and you could ~nell that stu~T cooking! The door was in the top of the spider and the coals would be on top of the door. You couldn t cook nothin then without somebody knowin it. Couldn t cook and eat in the back while folk sit in the front without them knowin it. They used to steal from the old master and cook it and they would be burning rags or something to keep the white folks from ~nell1ng it.

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~ .: 29() The riding boa8 would come round about nixie clock to. see it you had gone to bed or not. If they could steal a chicken or pig and kill and cut it lip, this one gould take a piece and that one would take a piece and they would burn the cotton to keep down the scent. The rider would come round in 3\ine and ~Tu1y too when they thought the people would be hunting the watermelons. ~ When the soldiers came, the niggers run and hid under the beds and the soldiers came and poked their bayonets under the bed and shouted, Come on out from under there re free ~ ~ ~ ~ ~.~----~- -- ~----- Destructiveness of Soldiers ~The soldiers would tear down the beehives and break up the ~ioke hou8es. They wasn t tryin to git nothin to eat. They was just destroy ing things for devilment. They j~illed all the stoppers out of the molasses. They cut the smoked rosat down and let it fall in the molasses. Rations Every Saturday, they would give my father and his wiTh halt a gallon of molasses, 80 much side meat. And then they would give halt a bushel ot meal I reckon, Whatever they would give they would give ~m right out or the ~noke house. Sweet potatoes they would give. Sugar and cotres they d make. There wasn t nothing 1bout buying no sugar then. (t how the Day Went The riding boss would come round before the day broke and wake you up. You had to be in the field before sun-up- that is the man would. The woman who had. a little child had a little mors play than the man,

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5. 29:t because ahe had to care for the child before she left. She had to carry the child over to the old lady that took care of the bablea. The cook that cooked up to the big house, she cooked bread and milk and sent it to the larger children for their dinner. They didn t teed the little children because their mothers had to nurse them. The mother went to the tield as soon as she cared for her child. She would come back and nurse the child around about twice. She would come once in the morning about ten o clock and once again at twelve clock betore she ate her own lunch. She and her husband ate their dinner in the field. She would coins back again about three p. m. Then you wouldn t see her any more till dark that night, Long as you could see you had to stay in the field. They didn t co~ home till sundown. Then the mother would go and get the children and bring them hc~. She would cook for supper and feed them. She d have to go soniewheres and get them. Maybe the children would be asleep before she would get all that done. Then she would have to wake them up and feed them. I remember one time my sister and ~ were laying near the fire asleep and. my sister kicked the pot over and burned me from my knee to my foot. My old master didn t have no wife, so he had me carried up to the house and treated by the old woman who kept the house for him. She was a slave. When I got so I could hobble around a little, he would sometimes let the little niggers come up to the house and I would get these big peanuts and break them up and throw them out to thera so he could have tun seeing them scramble for them0 After the children had been fed, the mother would cook the next day s breakfast and she would cook the next day s dinner and put it in the pail

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6. ~ 30 that everything would be ready when the rid1n~ boss would come around, Cause when he cerne, it meant move. The Old Lad~y at the Big House The old lady at the big house took care of the gourds and bowls. The parent8 did.n t have nothing to do with them. She ted the children that was weaned, Mother and daddy didn t have nothing to do with that at noontiffle because they was in the field. ~h1te folks ~ed them corn bread and milk. Up to the big house besides that, she didn t haie anything to do except take care or things around the house, keep the white man s things clean and do his cooking. She never carried the gourds and bowls herself. She just fixed them. The yard man brought them down to the quarters and we would take them back, She wash them and serape them till they was white and thin as paper. They was always clean. She wasn t related to me. I couldn t call her name to save my lite. Relatives We come from Barbour, Alabama with a trainful ot people that were Unmigrating. We just chartered a train and earns, we had so many. Ot all the old people that caine here in. that time, my aunt is the oldest. You will tind her out on Twenty-fourth Street and Pulaski. She has been my aunt ever since I can remember. She must be nearly a hundred or more. Patrollers When we had the patrollers it was just like the white man would have another white man working for him. It was to see that the Negroes went to bed

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7. 293 011 t ime and didn t steal nothing. 3~it my master and mi sais never allowed anybody to whip their slaves. What the 8laves Expected and Got ~ I don t know what the slaves was expecting to get, but my parente when they left Ben See s place had nothing but the few clothes In the house. ~ They didn t give em nothing, They had soins clothes all right, enough to cover themselves. I don t know what kind or how much because I wasn t old enough to know all Into such details. Then we left Ben See s plantation and went down into Alabama, we left there on a wagon. Daddy was driving tour big steers hitched to it. There was just three of U8 children. The little boy my mother was 8choOling then, it died. It died when we went down betwixt New Falla and Montgomery, Alabama. I don t know when we left Alabama nor how long we stayed there. After he wa8 told he was tree I know he di dn t make nare another crop on Ben See s plantation. 18651938 My father, when he left from where we was freed, he went to hauling l0 8 for a sawmill, and then he farmed. He done that for years, driving these old oxen. He mostly did this logging and my mother did the farming, ~I can t tell you what kind of time it was right after the Civil War because I was too young to i All our lives I had plenty to eat. When we first came to arkansas we stopped at old Mary Jones down in RiceVille, and then we went down on the Cates Farm at Biscoe. Then we went from there to Atkins up in Pope County. No he went up in the sand hills and bought him a home and then he went up into Atkins. Of course I was a married woman by that time.

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8. 294 I married the second year I came to Arkansas, about eixty two or sixty-three years ago. I have lived In Little Ro k about thirty-two or thirty three yeara. When I tiret came here, I came right up here on Seventeenth and State streets. Voting I never voted. l or twenty years the old white lady I stayed with looked after my taxes. None of my frienda ever voted. I ain t got nothing but some children axid they am t never been crazy enough to go to anybody s polls. Family I have two brothers dead and a sister. My mother Is dead. I am not sure whether or not my father is dead. The Ku Klux scared him out ~ of Atkins, and he went up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I ain t never heard of him since. I don t know whether he is dead or not. I have raised five children of my own. Ku Klux Klan These Ku Klux, they had not long ago used to go and whip folks that wasn t doing right. That was mongst the white people and the colored. Corner that used to have this furniture store on Main Street, he used to be the head of it they say. . I used to work ror an old white man who told me how they done. They would walk along the street with their disguises hidden under their arme. Then when they got to the meeting place, they would put their disguises on and go out and do their devilment. Then when th y were through,

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9. ~ls they would take the d1sgu~ise ofT again and go on back about their business. Old man Wolf, he used to tell nie about it. Occupation I nursed for every prominent doctor in Little Rock, ~ Dr. Judd, Dr. Flynch, Dr. Flynn, Dr. Fly, Dr. Morgan Smith, and a number of others.

[Interview with Thomas, Omelia] 302 297

3c.~c:;52 ~ 297 :Eixberviewier - ~ Saimiel s. Ta~rlor - ~- --I---1-- -r a- .~. u- -.~a j~- I -L_I~ ~ ~ .* ~ ~ _S * - ~ ~ W-- 1 ~ -1-~~-- - ~ Person interviewed ~nelia Thomas . s ~ ~3~ - :~w~ Rc~ ~ Age ~A.b~oijt19~ ~ U S * Oooupation w1d~rie: cotton and oorn - u u . ~ t~~-i~~- ~ .~- - --i--------a -i~s-~m~v~ .. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ SN ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ t, I was born in ipuisiana~iu Vidalia. M~r mother s name v~as ~ Grant. w father s name ~was George Grant. I~r mother s name before ehe married was E WOodbridg . I donit I~1~i ,~r the na~i~es of zr~r grand folks. I hoard n~r mother 5Q~T that D~T grandmother was named I~tilc1a Woodbridge. I never got to see her, That is what I heard n~r mother saar. UI don~t ia~ow the names of zi~j mothert ~ DiLate?9 and I dontt ~ the r~es of ~r~r fathert ~ vthite folle. str father ~was George Grazxb. ffe aer~ed in the War. I think th ~ said that he ~was with then itheii Vioksburg surr~dered. ~r Lather has said that he was reafly named George LeGrande. But after he enlisted in the War, he iTOITI; by the ziame of George Grant. There was one of the officers by that name, and he took it toot 11e was shot in the hip during the War. ~he~ be died, he still was havizig trouble with that wound He was on the Union side. He was fighting for our freedoms, He wasn t no Reb. He d tell us a ii~i~j a day, I I am part; of the cause that you are free,~ I don t know where he vias vthen he enlisted~ 11e said he was sold out from Loulaville hist and his brother. ni never did hear hia say that he was whipped or treated bad when he wt~s a slave. I~ve heard him tell how he had to stand up on dead people to shoot when he ~waa in the War, ~A~r brother starbed twice to get ir~ ft~ther s pe~ieion, but he never ~8 able to do az~rthing abo~xt it. Th~ me4e away with the papers somehow

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2. 298 and we never did geb nothin ~ father inarr ied a second ti~ne before he died. Vflken he died, ~r stepmother tried to get the pension. They writ back and asked her if he had any kin, and she answered them and said no. She hid the papers and wouldnt t let us bave t cm~5-.stook and looked t ~ up scmewheres vrhere we oouldn t find t ~ She was so mean that if she coulcin t geb no pe~asion, she didntt waxrt nobody else to get none, I dontt know just wh i I was born, nor how old I a~ ~flien I ocane to rc~ne~nber av~jthing, I was free, Bub I dontt aiow how old I a~, nor when it was. t I heard it~r father speak of pateroles. Just said that they d ketch you. He used to soare us 1~r telling us that the pateroles would ketch us. Wo thought that was something droadfuI~ u ~ ~ heard flOthiU about jayhawkers, I heard something about Eu K1ux~ but I don t ke.ow what it was. ~T father married imj mother just after the war. nI been married twloe. ~r ffrEI husband g~ killed on the levee. And the second is down in the country soiaewheres. We are separated. 1 don t get no help from the Welfare, wish I did, I aintt ~d no v~ney to get to the dootor with nw eyes. Itrterviewer ~ The old lady sat with her eyes near~r olosed while I questioned her ami listened to her stoxy. Those eyes ran and looked as though they needed atteitbion badly. The iUte1 Vi~W was conducted entire y on the porch as was that of Amiis Parks. L~raffio iu~erruptedg friends interrupted;

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3. 299 and a daughter iuberrupted from time to time. Bu~ this daughter, vthile a little suepioioiia, was in no degree hosti1e~ The two of thai referred n.e to J. T. Tins, who9 they said1 Imew a lot about slavery. Iris story is gi r.n along with this on. I got the impression that the old lady was born before the War, btr~ I acoeptod her stat ient and put her down as born since the War and guessed her age as near seventy. She was evident y quite reserved about some detai1s~ ifer father s marriage to her n other after the VVar would not necessarily mean that he was not ir~rried to her slave fashion before the War. She didntt care so much about giving. ax~r story, but she was polite and obliging alter she had satisfied herself as to ~r Identity arid work.

[Interview with Thomas, Omelia] 305 300

~~)1\~ ~ ~ ~J~h~vi Int.rvlewr ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Person interviewd ~S1ia Tho~a ~T5 i1 w. ~ ~tti~.~ ~ck;~ ~Ark;i~: Age_~63 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ e, ~ ~ WI was bOTh in Marianna, la. County, In &rkanaa8. I wasn t born right in the town but o~tt a piec. frcm the town In the old Bouden place, in 1875. My father kept a record of all births and deaths in hie Bib ... He never forgot whenever a new baby would come to get down hia glaaaea arid pn and ink: and Bible My daddy learned to read and writs after the emancipa tion. My father s name was Prank J~ohnaon and. my mother s naine was Henri.tta Johnson. I don t know the given n~mes of my tather a and mother s parents. I do know my mother a mother s nam Lucinda and my a mother was named Stephens, I d t know their given n~a. My mother s master was a Trotter. My father was a tree mane H5 hired his o~n ti~. He told ~ that his father hired his own time and he would go off and work. He made wash.. pots. He would go off and work and bring back money and things. Ria mother was tree too. ehen war was declared, he volunteered to go. He was with the Yankees. My father worked just like my g~andtather did. Whenever he had a job to do. He never had a lick from anybody, carried hie gun strapped dom on his side all the tii and never went without it. After the War, he worked on a steamboat. They used to kick the roustabouta about and run them around but they never laid the weight of their hands on him.

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2. ~They vouldn t allow him to go to school In slavery tia.. ~Aft.r the ear, he got a Blue Back Speiler and would make a bow . of fire and at night he would study.-aometiinea until daybreak. Then he round an old nian that would help him and he studied under him for a while. He never ient to any reg~i1ar school, but he went to night school a little. Moat of what he got, he got ~ hiinselt. He was born in Louisville Kentucky. I don t know how he happened to meet my mother. Thxring the time after the Jar, he went to iwining on the ~4Z4~) boat from New Orleans to FriaraA Point Mississippi. Then he would come over to Helena. In going round, he met my mother near Marianna and married her. Mother never had much to say, and the other gina would have a big tinie taliring. Be noticed that she was sewing with ravelinga and he aaid, Lady, next tune i cone I il bring you a spool of thread if you don t mind. He brought the thread and she clidri t mind, and from then on, they went to courting. Finally they married. They married very shortly after the War. My mother was a motherless girl. My daddy asid he looked at her struggling a1on~. All the other girls were trying to have a good ti~. ~xt she would be aettin down trying to make a quilt or aceiething else useful, and he said to a friend of his That woman would make a good wife ; I ~ going to xriarry And he did. She used to spin her fine and coarse sewing thread and yarn to make socks and stockings with. Her stockings and socks for the babies and papa would always be yarn. She could do pretty work. Sh~ had a large family. She had seventeen children and she kept them all in things she nude here. self. She raised ten of thm. ~ie would make the thread and yarn and the socks and stockings for aU. of these. I have ~ the tima when she used to make coats and pants for my father and brothera,

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3. 3()2 She ~ou1d make thent by hand becaua they didn t have any machines then. Of course, she aade aLl the underwear. She put up preserves and jellies for us to ~ eat in the winter. ~ie used to put up kraut and stuff by the barrel. I have seen s~e happy days when I was with my daddy and mother. He raised pige and~ hogs and chickens and. cows. He raised ai . kinds of peas and vegetables. He raised those things chiefly for the hc~e and he made cotton tor money. He would save about eight or ten bales and put thai under his shed for stockings and clothes and everything. He would have another cotton selling in March. When my tather was in the army, he would sonietimes be out in th weather, he told us, and he and the other soldiers would wrap up in their blankets and sleep right in the snow itself. 01 farmed all my life until 189?. I farmed all my life till then. I was at hct~. I married in 1895. My first husband and I made three crops and then he stopped and went to ~iblic work. After that I never farmed any more ~*~t went to cooking and doing laundry work. I came fr~ Clarendon here In 1901. I never had any experiences with the Yankees. My mother used to tell how they took all the old master a atuff--~u1ea and sugar~and then throwed lt out and rode their horses through it when they didn t want it for their-p selves. I married a second ti~ I have been single now for the last three years. My husband died on the twentieth of Aug~ist three years ago. I ain t got no business here at all. I ought to be at my ho~nc living well. But I work for what I get and I m proud of it. ~A working w~nan has many things to conten.d iuith. That girl doin. stairs keeps a gang of men coming arid going, and sc~etimea so~ of them sometimes try to come up here Sunday night when I come home from church,

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4. 303 011e was standing In the dark by my door waiting for i~. I had this stick in my hand and I ordered him down. Re saw I meant business; so he went on down. Some ot them are determined. There s no hope tor tomorrow so far as these young ~o1ks are concerned. And the majority of the old people are almost worse than the young ones. Used to be that all the old people wer mothers and fathers but now they are all going together. Kverything is in a critical condition. There is not much truth in the land. All human affection is gone. There is niighty little respect. The way acme people carry on is pitiful. Interviewer s Comment The men who bother Oxnelia Thomas probably take her tor a young woman. She hasn t a gray hair in her head, and her skin is &aooth and nn~st be well kept. She looks at least twenty-five years younger than she is, and but for the accident of her presence at another interview, I would never have dreamed that she had a story to tell. I went to see her in the quarters where she lives -over the garage in the back yard of the white people she works for0 When I got halfway up the stairs, she shouted, You can t come up here . I Mused in perplexity for a moment and she stuck her head out the door and looked. Then she said, Oh, I beg pardon; I thought you were one of those men that visit downstairs. I had noticed the young lady below as I entered. She is evidently a hot number, and as troublesome as a sore thumb to the good old lady above her.

[Interview with Thompson, Ellen Briggs] 314 309

30777 . 309 Interviewer .8agwgej. 3. Taylor ~ ~ ~ Person interviewed LUen Bz i~e Thoinpson ~o:6 we,- ~ ifit~te ~& c~isai ~ Birth ath Relativee RI ~a born in Oetobr 1844, in Naah~ille, Lrkanaaa. I don t remembez the exact day. I have went through thick and thin. I waa a email girl when my mother died. I got the rheumati~ so bad I can t hardly walk. It hurta me now. My o .de at brother Henry Brigga, was five yeara older than me eM fly 7OUfl~B at brother, Isaac Brigga was five yeara younger than is.. I was born October, but ha waa born at Christmas Lye just after surrender. My oldest brother died last year, My youngest brother is in Galveston, Texas. If he is living, he is there. M~ na~ was Brigga before I married. was just studying about my sister in-law when you come up. It I could get the money, I would go to see her. She w~s my o~4est brother s wite. Her n~ was Prances Brigga after she married. She lives in ~v ~t Arkansas where he married her. I Just had two brothers, no sisters. My an s name was Henry Thcmtpaon. He has been dead about twelve or thirteen years, I have had so mtich sickness I can t remember exactly. I married him a long time ago. I got it put down in the Bible. I married yonder In En~t Arkansas. I am t got the Bible nor nothing. My brother had it and he is dead. My father a naine was i~niel Brigga. He died in Hot Springs. We were sfl!all children when he and my mother was separated. He was in one place and we were in another. He tried to get us children when he died, but we was little and couldn t get to him. My mother was dead then.

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g~ ~. ~ My motber 8 name was Susanna Brigga. Her tather s name was Isaao Metz. The children left him in South Carolina. The white folks sold them away from him. My mother Just had three children: me, and my two brothers. I don t know how many my grandfather had. There were four si stera that I know be side a my mother and two boys : Aunt Mell ssa, and Aunt Tane and Aunt Annie and Aunt Sarah, and Uncle Albert Mitchell and Uncle Ben. My gr~id. mother s nsme was Betsy. I never got to see her but they told me about her. Good Masters I have heard them say that their white folks didn t whip them. My master was a good man. My young master, when lt come to the surrenders slipped back home and told. them they was going to be free a8 ever he was. His name was .Toe Mitchell. I never seed my white tolks whip anybody in my lite. They just never whipped anybody. They never whipped me. I have seen the white folks next to us whip their Negroes and I asked grandma about it. She said that those were their Negroes and she would explain what they was being whipped for. They was on another farm. I don t remember what they was being whipped for. My young master told the slaves when he notified them they was free that if they didn t want to stay with him, he would give them enough to go on till they could make it, you know, to keep them from starving. He was a good man. The old men, .Toe s father, was named Tho~nas Mitchell. He died before I was born. I never seed him, just knowed his name. ~ oe s mother was named Isabel Mitchefl. I came to be named Brigge because her husband s naine ~as Brigga. He belonged to a Brigga. I don t know what his name was else. They didn t belong to the saine master. They used to let them marry.

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They would fix great big table8. Sometimea they would marz y in the houee; that was in the winter. Then sometimes they would marry outdoors. Then they would set a long table for all their aaaociatei to eai Just like y would fix a table for your friends, Looked like they would be so glad to see their boys and girls marry. They woixld have regular preacher and marry juet like they do now. There wasn t no breeders on our place But I have heard of people who did keep a wc~an just for that purpose. They never whipped her nor nothing. They just let her have children. As soon as she had one they would take it away from her so that she could have another one right away. J~ayhawkers ~When my young master was gone to the Jar and the jayhawkera would co~ around my young s mother would take all the colored woarien and children and lock them up and she would take a big heavy gin and go out to meet them. The jayhawkere were white people who would steal corn and horaee and even slaves if they could get them, 3.~t colored folks was sharp. They would do things to break their horses leg8 and they would run and hide, My uncle was a young boy. He saw the jayhawkers coming once. And he ran end pressed himself under the crib, The apace ias so email he nearly broke his ribs. His mistress had to get him out and take him to the house. My grandmother used to take ma with her after dark when she d go out to pray. She wouldn t go anywhere without m One time when she was out praying, I touched her and said to her that I heard sc~nething In the corn crib. She cut her prayer off right now and went and told it to her old mistress, and to the young master, who was in the house just then telling the Negroes they were all going to be free. The jayhawkers spied us 3. 311~

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4. 312 and they got out and went on their way. My young master crawled out and went back to the Confederat army. Re had to crawl out because he ~nted to keep anybody from seeing him and capturing him. Sold 1ers RI never seed but one or two soldiers. That was after the surrender. I suppose they were Union soldiers. They had on their blue jackets. There never was any fighting in Nashville, while I was living there. About all that I knew about the War was that the ~n went off to fight. None of the colored men went--just the white men. The colored ~n stayed back and worked in the tield. Isabel Mitchell and her boys were bosses. What they said goed. Slave Houses ~The slaves lived in old log houses. So~ of them were plank housse. Sc~ of the slaves Chinked em up with dirt They had these big wooden windows in the houses. Sometimes they would be two, a~etimee they would be three windows--one to each rorn, There would be two or three or tour room. to the house. That would be according to the t~inhly. My mother had three girls besides her own children. She had a four-room house. Her house was built right in the white tolks yard. My grandmother didn t work in the field. She tended to the children. She worked in the big bouse. My mother iras boss of the whole thing. ~e would go and work in the field but grand.~ mother would see after the children. She wouldn t l.t me go from her to the gate without her. I just had to follow her everywhere she went. Grandmother besides taking care of us used to make clothes. ~e cooked for the white folks. ~t she sure had to see after us children. I seed after myself. I was all the girl-~ohild there and I just did what I wanted to.

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5. tut) ~The country waa kind of wild in those day~. The deer used to ccus loping down and we ~ou1d be acared and run and hide. Scm p.opl. would at the dogs on them and ~cuio people would kill them no matter who they belonged. You aee, ec people had them aa pets. A~uaements ~I never seed nothing in the way or a~iae~nts except people going to ehuxch and going to parties and ai . euch aa that. They believed in going to church. They iould hare parties at night. The white folks didn t care what they had. They would help prepare tor it. They would let em have anything they wanted to have and let em go to church whenever they wanted to go. And it they took a notion they would have a supper. When they would have a party they would do just like they do now. They would have dancing. I never seed any playing cards. When they danced, somebody would play the fiddle for them. When they had a supper, they would UsUally sell the things, Then the white folks would come and buy trcei them. There would be nice looking things on the table. Church They had meet inge at center Point and at Arkadeiphia. And they would let us go to them or anywhere elae we wanted. We had to have passes, ot course, They had colored preachers, Sometimes the 8lavse wou ,d go to the white people s church. They wouldn t go often, just every once in awhile. White ladies would get after the colored to come and. go with them aonieti~s. Sometimes, too, when they would have a dinner or s~ething, they would take Aunt &~e or mother to cook for them. They wouldn t let nobody meddle with them or bother them- none of the other white folks. And they would let them fix a table for their own friends that they would want to have along,

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6. 314 P8r8Ofl~1 Occupat ions I used to work in the field or in the house or anything I could get to do. I would even go out and saw these big rails when my husband would have a job and couldn t get a chance to do it. It ha~ been a good while since I have been able to do any good work, My husband has been dead fifteen years aiid I had to quit work long before he died, R1~it after the War Right after the War my folks worked in the field, washed, cooked, or aiiyth:Lng they could do. They left the old place and came down about Washington, Arkansas. I don t know j~xst how long they stayed~ in Washington. From Washington, my mother went to Prescott and settled there at a little plaoe they called Sweet Home, just outside ot Prescott. That is where ~y daughter was born and that Is ~iere my mother died. I came here about nine years ago, Present ~pport I came here to stay with my d~i~iter. Rit now she doesn t have any help her8elf. She has three sn~ll children and ah s their only aupport now, Sh s not working either, She just c~e in fr i the Urban Leagae looking tor a j ob, They aay that they don t have a thing and that the people don t want any wcznen now. / They just want theae young girls because they make them work cheaper. / We have both applied for help from the Welfare but neither of us has gotten anything yet.~

[Interview with Thompson, Hattie] 320 315

315 ~~O893 Interviewer Miss Irene Robertson Person interviewed Eattie Th~ap~son,~~ Widener, Arkansas Aga _~.22~~__ sI was born the second year after the surrender. I was born close to An ington, nu. My parents was Marish Thermon and 3ohnson Mayo. They had eight children. They belong to different owners. I heard mama say in slavery time she d clean her house good Saturday and clean up her children and start cooking dinner tore pa come. They looked forward to pa coming. Now that was at our own ho se. . wManla was he ired. She was the house woman and cook for her young mi stre sa M~i. se Sali is Therinon She married Mr. Tobn Thermon. She was Miss Saille Royster till she married. I heard her say she raised Miss Sallie s children with her own. She was a wet nurse. I know Miss Saille was good to her. I don t think she was sold but her mother was sold. She would spin and weave and the larger children did too. They made bed spreads in colors and solid white. They called the colored ones coverlets. They was pretty. Mama helped quilt. She was a good hand at that. They made awful close stitches and backstitched every now and then to make lt hold. They would wax the thread to keep it from rollin ui and tangling. Thread was in balls. They rolled it from skeins to bails. They rolled it from shuck br~ches to the balls. Put shucks around the spindle to slip it oft easy. I have seen big balls this big (2 ft. in diameter) down on the floor and mama knitting off of it right on. Vihen the feet wore out on socks and stockings, they would unravel them, save the good thread, and reknit the foot or toe or heel.

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When I was a child, patching and darning was stylish. Soon as the washing was bru.ng in the clothe8 had to be sorted out and every snag place patched nice. Folks had better made clothes and had to take care of em. Clothes don t last no time now. White folks had fine clothes but they didn t have nigh as many as white folk8 do now. Mama was a pretty good hand at doing mighty nigh what she took a notion to do about the house. She never was no count in the field--jesa couldn t hold out it seem like. She worked in the field lots. Pa was a shoethaker. He made all our shoes and had his tools, lasts, etc. He learned his trade in slavery. He farmed. It has been so long ago I tell you. I don t recollect things straight. I don t know how they found out about freedom but they left I think. They got all they could take, their clothes and a little to eat. They started share cropping. They was out from Holly Springs when I come to knowledge. Mama was a nice hand at cooking and hand sewing. She said Miss Saille learnt her. She never could read. ~ ~ $1 come to Arkansas fifty year ago this spring with one little glrl . all the little girl I ever had. I never had no boys. I coins here to get work. I always ~ot work. It was a new country and it was being cleared out. In the spring we could get wild polk greens to cook. You can t get none now. Times is sider biy changed since then. Hogs run. wild. Plenty gerne here then. Something to . eat was not hard to get then as lt is now. We raise a hog in a pen nearly every year but lt takes plenty to feed lt that way. z. 316

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3. My~ husband have rheumatism and we get $12 and ccmrnoditiea. He worka in the field and I wash and iron when I can get some to do. That is scarce. He works all he can.~

[Interview with Thornton, Laura] 327 322

Iuber~riwer ~ ~ ~ . . ~ ;S~io1~j~or r r u u.- m_ij~.-~ a. ~J SSP r ~ ~ ~ -uji--~--~ ~ - Person interviewed . ~ ~ Laura ThOrUbOn - ~ ~a~ae Age 105? - ~ su*~~a.~-- . ~ _ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ s. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ _ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ fl1~? 11M~1VQ home ta klaba~. I waa born not far fro~a M1dWaY~ Alabama, abo~xb twelve niiles froia Clayton. M.tdvvay, Clayton, and Barber are all near~by to wnB, We used to go to all of theaiij str x~ater was T i Eford~ When he died, I feU to POUY Eford~ Pol ~r Eford ~was the old lady. I don t Iaiow whore they ia and the~r don t Iaiow~ nothing about where I Is. It s been so long. Beoause I done let Alabama fifty years. I dontt know whether ai~r of thai Is living or no. It a been so long. Thefr bab~r bo~r was naiaed ailee Bford ~&~r mother was Miami Eford and IV father ~ name was Pervy Eford. That is the name he went in, I~y motbar wenb in that naine too, ~r Lather died the second year of the surrender, ~ mother v~aa a widow a long timol I was a grac~n-up won~n and bad ohil&ren vib.en i~ father died, UI lIBrried during slavery time. I don t remesuber just how old I vvaa then. ~ old xi~n biovrs ii~ age, bix~ I eau~t reaeanbez it~ But he~ a been dead this year raakea thirbeen years, I bad one ohild before the aurrendez ~ I waa ju8i; married to the one ii~n I was i ~rried afber the surrender, I don t want to be ris.rrlod again. I nover eeed a man I would give a thought to sinoe he died0 Tprtl knows how long we~ been i~rried before he died, We oame here and stayed four years and we bought a home dovin on Aroh Street Pike about ten miles fr~ hers. I lived there sixby yearS,

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2. 323 go~L; the tax roooipta for aixty yeare baok. I ain t never eoun~sd bhe I paid sinoe he s been desi. lt1 ~ the mother of three ohiidron and none of th ~ are living. All of th i dead btrb mO~ ThW made like they was goin ba give old slave folka a pension. The~r ain ~b giimne none yib. Itm just li~in on the moray of the people. I oan l keep up the taxea now. I wish I oould g t a pension. It would help keep me up iill I died. The~r ~g o~tj even as imioh as give me nothi2at on the relief. They say these grandohil&ren ough1 tm keep me up. I have to depend on bh~a aM the~r .oantt haH y keep up theirsolve4 YV1i~i the Civil War broke out, n~ bab~r wa~ about eeveii years old, 1~j mother was here when the siar~ fell. She bad one ohuld then. ni r ncrnibor a war before the Civil War~ I heard the white foii talkii~~ abo~xb it. They wouldnl t tell oolored folks nothin The~rt d work thera to death and beat th i to death. They d sell thoen just like you sell hogs. 1~r mother was ao1d~ from me when I was li~le. Old lad~r Eford, 8he was ~ mistress and merm~r too. If she erer slapped me, I don t a.ow nObhin bout; it. zr dadd~j me.de his farm just like oolorod people do now~ White me~i would give huia so much ground if he d a ~aind to work it. He had a horse he usedo Wo lived a. heap better than the people live zimt. They fed you then~. You ate three ti~aes a day. When twelvo t olook ooine~ there diimer v~as oooked and road~y. Nothin to do but eat it, and then set down and reat with the other people. There was th i that was good$ But th i what w~s mean done the oolored folks bad.

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3. 324 Early Days UI was little when i~ mother was sold fr~ nO. I was ruirn5ii aboub bhough in the yard~ I eouldntl do nothin . But I ~was a smarb giri~ The first work I oan remeinbex domt was goin to the field ploughirig~ That is the first thing I reiaeanbor. I was little. I juab oould ooiae up to lhe plough. I out logs when I was a liitle ohild like thean ohuidren bhero (ohildren about ten years old playing in the street) . I used to clean up new ground...sdo azytthing. . ~r mother and father both worked in the field. I~ father was sold away from iae just like i~y mother was. Old lady Eford was i~ mother and father too That was in ClayLon, Alabama Old Torn Eford had three bo~ ss one nazaed T i, one named William, and there was the one riamad Giles whal I told you aboLxb William was t1~ oldeet~ Tc~t was the aeoond, and Giles ~as the yowigeab~ iII nover learirb i~o read and wri1~e~ In slave ttme, the~r didn t let you have no books~ ~r brother UIOUgh was a good reader~ Ho could wribe as weU as az~r of thera because he would be with the white ohildren ~ and the~r wou~4 show 1dm. That is the way n~r brother learxrb. He would lay down all day Sunday and abudy. The good blessed Lord helped him. Marriage . The man I married was on the plantation. They married in slave time just like they do these days. Wh i I married, the justioe of pea o married me. That was after froedc~a, our folks would give big weddings just like they do now (just after the war) . I ain t got n~r lioense now, MOVIUt t rotin_d, it got lost. I was married right a~b home where me and xi~r old man abayed. Wasnt c i~obo4 there ~ but me aM h~in and another man ne~ned D~, Biyant, That ~aan t far frost Midway.

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~: ~. ?tl oentt talk n~ioh sinoo I had those stroke . Can t talk plainj just have to push it out, but I thank God I can do that much. The Lord ist me stay here for s ae reason-u I dontt know what. I would rather go, but he sin 1; oalled me0 Hovr the Day Went We got up after daylig1~th. Tc~ii Eford didn t n~.ke his folks g t up ear ~r. But af~ber he was dead and gone, things ohanged up. The rost a~de t~a1 git up before daylight. He was a good man. The Lord kriovrs Yes Lord, way before day , You d be in the field to work w~r before day and then work way into the night. The white folks oa .led Eford s oolored people poor white folks because he was so good to them Old T~ Eford was the sheriff of Claytoit. His folks ceins back to the house at noon end et their diimer at the house. He had a oook and diimer was prepared for them just like it was for the white folks0 The colored wc~n that cooked for them had. it roa~r when they caine there for ib. They had a great big kitchen and the hands ate there. They came back to the same plaee for supper, Lud they didntt have to work late either. Old Tom Eford never worked his hazids extras That is the reason they called his niggers poor ~vhite folks. Folks lived at homie th~t c3ays and st in the saz~e place. When n~y old man was living, I had plenty. Si~iokehouse was full of good moat. Now everything you git, you have to bi~r. :~e:~cb morning, th~ all et their breakfast in the same kitchen, They et three meals a day every ds~r. 1~r mother never cooked exoept on Sunda~y. She didn t need to.

331 326

5. Patrollerz Me and old lad~r Eford would be out in the yard and I would hear her Guss the p~tei oles because they didn t wanb folks to buse their niggem. They had. to git a pass froet their masters when they would be out. If they didn~t have a pass, the pateroles would ~whip then. Ja~yhawker . The je~yhawkers would oatoh folks and carry then out in the woods and hang then up, The~ d catch you and beat you to deatI~. RUfl~V8~JB Colored folks what would run away, old lady Eford would call then s rottonhea and blooc~r o~ We would hear the hounds ba~ring after then and old lad~r Eford would stand out in the yard and ouss them...ousa the hounds I mean Like that would do a~r good. Soene slaves would Idli theirselves before they would be oaugM. They would hear them doga~ I have seen old Tcia Eford. He would have then doge. He was sheriff and he had to do it. He carried then dogs. He would be gone two weeks before he would be back s net~anea. Alden or Alton ~vas the place the~r said they carried the ruiiawa~js. Slave Breeding They never kept no slaves for breeding on anar plantation I heard ot. They would vvork then to death and breed then boo. There was places w~iero old ~aasa kept one for hisseif. ~~3nusenents Folks had heap more pleasure than they do now in slave thn . They had parbiea and danoes and th ~r would bow round. The~r had fiddles and danced by them. Folks danced then days. The~r don t dance now just mess around.

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6. t~~P~IrI~ ~r brother could sorape the fiddle and danoe on, all at the same ti~ Folka would give big auppera and aak people oub~ They would feed nice times with one another~ Polka ain t got no love in their hearba like the~r uaed bc luave. Police would giv e quiltinge. Pha~ dOn t think about quiltiTig nai4 The~y would quilt out a quilt and dance the rest of the nigh~ They would have a big aupper at the quilting. Nice tliae too. The~r would kill a hog and barbeoue it. The~r would cook chicken. Have ple~xby of whiskey too. Soeie folka would get drunk That was ~hiskoy thea days. They ain t got no wuiiskey noa~ old poison stuff that Will kill people. Mv dadc1~T W~8 jfl t dr~k all the time. He had pleirby of WhiBkC~T. That ~wfts ~that killed old T~i Eford He kept it aebtint ou the dresser all the thne. You couldn t walk in hie house but what you would see it time you got in. Folks hide it now. I have drunk a ina~r a glase of it. I would go ~ take a glase whenever I wanted to. ~ / How Preed~~ Cams The old white folks told me I ~aa free. ~T1Ie~r had me hiredout. I waan t staying with ~r owner~ There wasn t nobody there with me but the white folks ~where I was staying. That morning I got up to get brOakfaat and there wasn t no fire and there waan t no matoh.g. I weub to soene neighbort.1 to get a ohunk of fire and the~r told me to go baok to n~r folka because I ~was free. ~mten i: got baok to the house they was md and ~arrbed to whip ~ So I just pill; the fire down and never cooked no breakfast b~rb Jue wenb on to n~r brother s. The reason the~ wanted to whip me was because I had gone cubside of the house WithOIIb their knowing it. When I weitt; to ~r brother a, I had to walk twelve mUse. ~ brother carried me to ~r iixther and fathers And then he took me back to old la~ Eford~

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7. and she told me to go on to n~r mother, that I was free now. So he took me on Ixtok to zi~r ma and pa. He said hetd do that so that I oould stay With the~n. Slave Earnings Slaves had money in slave time. ~r daddy bought a horse. He n~,de a orop every year. He ~1e his bale of ootton. He made oorn to feed hie horse with. He belonged to his white folks but he had. his house and lot right next to theirs. The~j would give hi~i time you ~ow. He didn t have to work in the heat of the day. He made his orop and bought his whiskey. The white folks fed im. He had no expenses oept tending to his orop. He didn t have to give Torn Eford ax~rtthing he made. He just worked his crop in his exbra time. Max~j folks too lazy to g t theirselves soeziethint ~h~i they have the ohanoe to do it. But n~r daddy vvasn t that kind. His old ir~ster gave him the gro~und and he i~de it give him the money. I,!~y daddy left me plenty but I ain t got it now. I diclntt care what happened when he died~ People made out like they was goin to put n~r money in the bank for rae and took it and destroyed it. Used it for theirselves I reckon. Now I need it and ain t got it~_aintt got a pew. For five or six years at n~r haine, I rinde good crops. We raised everything we needed at haines Didntt l aw what it was to come to town to bt~ anything. If az~rbody had told me twenty years ago I would be in this shape, I wo~ulc1n t have believed it because I had plenty. ~That Slaves Got whe~i Freed ~They said they was gw3-ne a give the slaves something, btr~ they never did do it. Then the n~,ster made out like he was gvrine a give the slaves so much if they stayed t round and ~de his crops for him, but ho didntt do it.

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8. ~I Ccme Again If the Irn d lets you git back tomorrow, try and. come a little in the day than you did today. I gits up about six in the morning. believe in layin in bed late. I go to bed directly a.f%er dark and up early. The Lord never did mean for noboiiy to sleep all dey. sooner I don t I wake Intervl.ewer s Comment A number of people teatif~r to Laura Thornton s age. I am trying to check up on it. Results later. If she isn t a hundre~fivo years old, she is mighty nigh it. She bas feeble health, but a surpx~ising y alert niind~ and a keen sharp meaaory. She has a tendency to confuse Reconstruction times with slavery times, but a little questioning always brings oixl the facts. She doesn t like to talk ~mioh abotrb marriage in slavery. Evident2y she dislikes the fact that one of her children v~as born before es~noipation. She was evideiitly married only once, as questioning broughb out; btrt she Will refer to the i~.rriage before x~anoipation and the one afterward as though they v~ere to different person~6~

Old slave stories. 335 330

300(r/ . 330 (~vrt,~ Ark. Fw~~ c~tD SLLVE SPORI:~ r 1__________ _ Ah m on UT dem oie timers 1~h been here aince way back yonder. lust thing ah kin member 1~ a bad storm an malt ma put u undah de bald. She iuz skeered hit would blow us away. 1h use tuh play till ah got bigger nutf tuh work. Ah member we use tiili play runnin. We d play walkin tuh3see which one uv us could walk de fastest tub de field tuh carry dinner. We use tuh jump. an we use tuli ride stick hosses an limbs offn trees. 01e boas learnt inah pa how tuh make shoes an de way he done: Dey kilt a cow an a deer an take dey hides an tanned dem. De way he tanned hit wuz tuh take red oak bark an white oak bark an put in vats. Dese vats wuz somethin like troughs dat helt water an he put a layer nv oak ashes an or layer UT ashes an a layer uv leather till he got hit ai . In an ~ covered wid water. Aftuh dat dey let hit soak till de hair come offn de hide den dey would take de hide oft an hit wuz ready tuh tannin. Den de hide wuz put tuh soak In wid de redoak bark. Hit stayed In da water till de hide turnt tan den pa took de hide out nv de redoak dye an hit would be a purty ten. Hit dldn hare tuh soak so long. Den he would git his pattern an cut an make tan shoes outn dat tanned hide. Te called dem brogans. We all wore shoes cause ~h pa made em.

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-~ ). We planted indigo an hit growed !es like wheat. When hit got ripe we gathered hit an we would put hit in e barrel an let hit soak bout er week den we would take de Indigo stems out an squeeze all de ~uioe outn dem, put de Juice beck In de barrel an let hit stay dere bout nother week, den we 5es stirred an stirred one whole day. We let hit set three or tour days den drained de water o fn hit an dat left de settlings an de settlings wuz blue~. Ing jes like we have dese days. We cut ours In little blooka~ Den we dyed clothes wid hit. We had purty blue cloth, De way we set de color we ~ put alutnn in hit flat make de color stay right dere. Lh ll tell yuh how tuh dye. !r little beech bark dyes slate color set wid copper. Hickory bark an bay leaves dyes yellow set wid chamber lye; bamboo dyes turkey red, set color wid copper0 Pine straw an sweetgwri dyes purple set color wid chamber lye. yuh don bleave hit try ~n all. Mah ma n~de cloth while inah pa i~de shoes. Ah in~nber jea as good when dey handcuft mah ma ~ two brothers tuli keep um trc~ runnin off when dey got ready tuh sell em. Ah seed wn handcuft as ~ny as eI~it tugethuh when dey ~rched dem tuh de pen. Tuh know dey had uh pen kinder like de pond pen fer cows an hosses. Well dey would drive us niggers tuh de pond pen an dey had. er big block In de pen an dey put one ui us niggers on hit at a time. Bid us oft tuh de highest bidder. Mah ole boas wuz a gambler. Ifri

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-~ )~ -~ / People talk bout dis gamblin an drinkin bein a late thing ~ dein ~j ~ih its 1~okes d one hit way back yonder 90 years ergo cause mah oie bo sa gambled me orr ah dare he d id Ge~b1ed me off one e~ ~ ~ Sunday moritin 01e Boss made whiskey jes like dey do tuhday. ~ Black preachers couldn preach tuh us. 01e boss would tie em ttth a tree an whoop em it dey caught us eben praying. We had er bi g bJ.a ok via shpot a n de way we prayed we d go out an put our mouths to der groun an pray low an de sound wud go up under de pot an oie boss couldn hear us. De white preacher would call us under a tree Sunday evenin tuh preach tuh us. Dia la whut his text would be: Mind yo mlstress.~ Den he would ceed tu~h preach ~ ~Don t steal der potatoes; don t lie bout nothin an dc~ talk back tuh yo boss; lfn yo does yo U be tied tuh a tree an stripped neckid. When dey tell yuh tuh do somethin run an do hit. Bet s de kind uv gospel we got. We cooked on fiuhpia ces In er I ron pot ; cooked bread in a ubben. We had ash cakes. We et purty good. Ah didn go tuh school. Ah wuz awful sly. Ah wanted tuh learn tuh read so ah hung eroun oie xnisteaa when she wuz teachin huh chillun tuh red. Ah listened an when she put de book down an went out ah got de book. Ah kep hit up tin ah learnt tuh read. Ah been teachin one Bible class in Curtis 42 yeara. Some uv ~n dare ask me how ah learnt tuh read so good an ah tole dem dat a person dat dn learn tuh read In a hunnert years ought tuh be dald.

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4) ),e . Ah vuz tweiity-two ~h~i de silver war broke. Ah know when hit started but ah don know whut hit wuz erbout. 11 I know Yeff Dav18 an kbrabam Lincoln wuz de two presidents. Lincoln vuz S flethIn like regular pI e8ideflt an Yeff Davis wuz somethin like er confedric president or somethin. Ah didn know jea how hit wuz. Yeff Davis ah think wuz er rebel and Lincoln republic. When de fight cotne up dey wuzn fightin tuh set de niggers free, ah don think. Lt de time dey wuz fightin ovah de tTnion but aftuh de slave owners wuz gwianter take de innocent 8laves an make dem fight on dey side. Den Lincoln said hit wouldn be. So dat when b.e sot em free. Whoopeet Yo ought ter seed dem Yankees fightin. Aftuh de battle wuz vah we vould walk ovah de battle groun an look at de daid bones, skellurns ah think dey called em. Aftuh de white !okes tole us we wuz free dey didn give us nothin, Turnt us out widout a place tuh stay, no clo es but whut we had on our back an nuthin tuh eat. We jes slept undah trees an roun bout. Didn have nuthin tuh eat cept parched corn. We stole dat. Had tuh do somethin. De nez year de white fokes let us make a crop wid dem fuh somethin tuh eat an~ ob es an de women could work fuli a few clo es an somethin tuh eat. So In er year er two niggers went tuh tryin tuh duh somethin fuh derneelves, an been tryixi tuh help dey selfs evah since. Ah know all bout hit. Ah vuz tall an ah is now when dey cried ~Free~ Mn t growed nairy nother inch.

[Interview with Tims, J.T.] 341 336

33G :3o1; riG IrIterviewer Samuel S. Tajlor ~ ~ - -U~~~L ~UJ -U ~l_~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ U~ ~ u ~ W Person interviewed . J. T. This ~ i1 o~p~C~ ~ ~ - Age 86~ ~ Little Rook, Arkansas a-. 000upation Cook, waiters a~~d farmer ~ _t_.I - ~ - l~ ~ ~ ~ e T *~~a_. ~~ -~ i~ si ~ ~ ~ ~ ni ~vas born in Jefferson County, Mississippi in 1863. That would make ~ me siglIty-six years old. I was born si~ miles fr~ Fe~yette-.aix miles east ~ of Fa~yette, I was eighty six years old the elevezIth dey of September. ~r fathert ~ name was Daniel Time, and imy mothert ~ ~i~ii~ was Aim Tima. ~r nother was born in Lexington, Kenbuolcy. Ma s been dead years and years ago and n~ father is gone too. 1~r zi~thert ~ ~&i before she married was - - J she told it to us ail riglIt, bixt I just never eau think of it. n ~ dontt laiow the i ari~ of nrj mothert ~ ~tex,~ But ir~ father s n~eter was named BlouzIt Steward. Pa was born on B1OUITb~ s plantation and BIOUZIt bought ~ ~ because they brought her fx a Kevtuolcy for sale. They had her for sale just like you would sell hogs and zailee. Then ~r father saw her and liked her and married her. She was a slave toot Master ~B1OUrIb Steward was kinder good. He was vezy well till the war etarbed the Federal Ware MiSS &fl1 wiIt to whip ne for uothiiig. ~miippings ni was earl7ing her laughter to school evex~ day except Saturdays and SUndays. One da~r, Miss Ami was off and I was at the back steps playing and she decided to whip me. I told her I hadn t done nothin ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ head between her legs and started to beatin me. And I bit her legs.

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2. 33)7 She leame loose and hollered. Then she called for William to oc~e and beat In.. William was one of the oolored slaves, William come to do it. ~k had been. peeping out from the kitohen watohin the whole thing~ When. William octue up to beat me, she coete out with a big carving I~nife and told h~ia~ t That s ii~r child and if you hit him, . I li kill t tThen she sent for TU1Iy to come and whip ins, I mean to whip ~i~r mother, Tul ,y was xi~y young master. Tully ootae and said to i~r mother, t I - I~iiovt you ain t done nothin nor your child neither, but I 11 have to hit you a few light licks to satistj ma. Blount coene the next day and went dow~i to where pa was making shoes. He said, Daniel, you re looking mighty glum. Pa said, You d be loolcin glum too if your wife and chile bad done been baal; up for nothin . When he said that, Blount got mad. He snatched up a shoe harnner and hit pa up side the head with it. Pa said, By God, don t you try it again. BlOunt didn t hit hain again. Pa was ready to fight, and he wasn t sure chat he could whip him. Pa said, You won t hit me no more.~ The wax was goin on then, Ruilaimys The ollawing Sunday night, twelve head o f T ua left there, ~r ma and pa and me and our whole fWIIi)y and some more besides was along. We went froixi the plantation to Rodney, Mississippi first, trying to get on a steamboat gunboat. The gunboat wouldn~t take us for fear we would get hurls, The war was goin on then, So we just transferred down the river and went on to Natohes, We went there walking and wading.

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3. 338 We was fr a Sunday night; to S~md2y night gettin there~ Wo didn t have no trouble capt t1rn~ the hounds was ruxuiin ii~, Btit the~r didn t ateh us~ the~ didn t oatoh none of us~ ~j ma and i~ pa and n~r brothers and sisters besides me was all in the crowd, and wo all got to Natohez, They are all dead and cone to Jud~nent now but me~ I ththk that I got one sister in Chicago, Illinois, She is n~r baby sister, I ain t never hoard nothing about her bein dea~1. Natohez TAt Natohez, ma didn t do anything, We children didn t do nothint either there, But pa joined the arn~r, He joined it the next day after he got there, Then I went to work ~i~in~ on the sixty~fourbh-i..l~nrae ~ yes, it was the 5j~4~y_Fo~rbh Brase Epaulettes, I was waiting on one of the sergeants. He was a Yankee sergeant, The sergoanb~s nazie was Josephus, and the eaptain of the C npaa~r was Lieutenant Knowles0 I was With the~i ~wo years and six months. I never did get hurb. ~hen they went to fight at New Orleans, the oaptain wouldn t l~mne take parb in it. He said that I was so bravo he was fraid I migh-b get hurt. Me and i~r father wore the on ~ ones v~~or~g in the fe~1y at that time, I stayed right in Natohez but n~,r father didn t. ~r father s first stop was i_n Bullooks Bar right above Vidalia. That was where his oom~ai~r was st~c~ioned first. Leitmie see, he vont froan there to Davis Bend, I wasn t with th~i. Ho was in a oolored regimeirt, I was with a white regiment, He left Davis Bend and went to Vioksburg. His nexf trip was up the Sunflower River. His next trip he vient fro~n there up here to De Va .ls Bluff, Thai is where he coeno free. That was the end of the fighting thero right there0

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A .~. From there he ocmo baok to Rodney. Wo all wez~b to Davis Bond while pa was there. Wheai he left and wont to Do Valls Bluff, ma woztt to Rodney. I stayed with the soldiers two years and a half down there a1 Natohoz. Thai s as far as I wozu; with thean. When they left I stayed. UI wont to Rodiiey With i~r mother and stayed with her and the r~st of the ohiidren till she died. ~j ma died in 1874. ~ father died down here in Pine Bluff several years ago. Ther rna~ died, pa married another woman, ~ He wex~b back to Pine Bluff and was killed by a train. when he was crossing a trestle0 Age and c~bher ~et ers Blount St~%~ard vias the on ~r master any of us ever had, outside of IV ~ ~ s first master i.~ the ~ in Kentuol y . I dontt know ar~rbhing aboub th ~ii. I was eight years old when the war began and twelve years old when it ended. - I must have been older than that because I was t~relve years old when I was serving thean soldiers0 And I had to ocme away from them before the~ -war was over, Slave Work The first work I ever did in slave time was dining room servioe. ~vhen I lefb the dini~-ro i table, I left carrying n~r young mistress to school six xniles froLl Fayette. They give me to Lela, ~r young mistress. She was the young girl I was carrying to school when I got the whippix~g, When ol rais was whippin me, I asked her what she ~as whippirig nie for, and she said, f Nothin ~ ~ oause you ro mine, and I can whip you if I want to, She didn t thin.k that I had done an~rbhing to the girl. She was just x .d that day, and I was arotuidg so she took it out on me. After that, I never did ai~~ more work as a s lave, because the whole faini y ran away about that time.

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I don~t rookon pa would ever hwve ruai off if ol miss hadntt ~iipped me and if ai massa hadn~t struok h5~n. They was good till then; but it looked like the war made tli t mean. Patrollers, Jayhawkers, Ku Klux, and Ku Klux Klan The~r had pateroles going round watching the colored people to keep th i from running off. That s all I know ~bCu~ thea. I dontt remtember he~~in~ ar~rthing aboub the jaybawkers. ItI hoard lots ~bout the Ku Klux. They were terrible, The white folks had one another goint round watching and keeping themi from runnin off. The Ku Klux would whip people they caught out, They would whip th i just because they could, because the~r called thenselves bosses, because they was w~iite arid the colored people was niggers. They didn t do nothin but just keep the slaves dawn. It was before the war that I knew bout the ~i Klux. There wasn t no differenoe between the pateroles and the Ktt Klux that I knows of, If ~~J~td ketch you, they all would whip you. I don t know nothin about the Ku Klux Klan aTher the war. I know they broke thoet Slav. Houses, Furniture, Food, and Work Before the war, we lived in a old log houses It had one window, one door, and one room. Colored people djd~~~ have no two or three~rocm bOuses before the war, I l . tell you that right now. All the furniture we had was bed. stools and quilts, ~ Course we had them old stools that pa made, We kept food right there in the house where we was in one corners We didn t have no drawers nothing like that, The white folks fed us, They give us as much as th~y thoughb we ought to haves Every Saturd~y nighb you would go bo the smokehouse and get your moat and meal and your molasses~ 5. 34()

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Didn~t get no flour, no coffee, no . sugar. Pa ~~ae an ox driver and when he would go to Rodney to carry cotton, he ~vould buy sugar and coffee for him . seit. You see, they would slip a little something and make a 1i~ble money off it. Like they was goiu to Rodne~j t aorrow, the~r would slip &nd kill a oouple of hogs and carry th&i along with th a. That was the only way the~r could get a little money. ~r pa s ~.in work wa~ sho~2dng, but he w~rked in the field too. He was a driver ohief2y when he was out in the fi.Id. 11e hoed and plowod. He was the leader of the gang. He never got a chance to make no mone~r for hisself before the war. Nope, the colored people didn t have no mon~,r tall lessen they slipped and got it. Slave :Marriagee Se~r I want;ed this mn for ii~r wife. We would just ptrI~ down the brocan and step over it and we would be married. That is aU there was to it before eTL~noipation. Didn t have no matriino~ road nor nothing. You were ii~rried when you stepped over the bro a handles That was your wife. A Lincoln Stoi~ They saar Abe Lincoln o ae down in this part of the oount~ end asked for work. He had his little grip just like you got. The rnan said, Wait till I go to dinn Didn t saar, t Co~ to muet and didn t sa~r nothin !b~ ~J1 11~.ve dinner, Just said, Wait till I go eat n~r dinner.t When he o iie back, Abe Lincoln was up there lookin,~ over his books. He d done changed his clothes and everything. He had guards with him but they didn t see em. That is the story I heard then teU~ ~ What the Slaves aot When the slaves got freed, they wasn t expeetin~ to get nothing that I 1~iows of cept what they worked for. They weren t speotin no forby acres 6. 341

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r~ 1 and a mul~. Who was goi~i to give it to t em? The Rebs Z They didn t give eni nothin but what the~r could put on their baeka .~I mean lashes. ~ had stocks that he used to put them in. The stocks had. hingee on one side ax~d latches on the other. The nigger would put his head. in one hole and his aima through the others, and the old man would eat on the other end. Your feet would be stretched out and you would be layin on your belly. Blount whipped ne once beoause I wouldn t go to the cow barns to get the milk to p~rb in the coffee that morning. I didn t have time. They had given me to Lola, and I had to take her to sohool. I was ~ eponsible if she was late. He bad give nie to Lola. Next morning with her, and we didn t come back till Friday evening. She went down to her Aunt Leona Harrison ~ and carried me with here She W5.8 fl~d because they whipped me when I belonged to her. Ther s lavery, we worked by the nionth on people s plantations. I di d that kind of work till afber a while the vThite people got so the~j re~rbed the colored people land and soiled them mules for their work. Then some worked on shares and some rented and worked for theirselves. Right af ber the war most of the fax~ae were worked on shares. We were luei~y to be able to get to work 1~y the month. Schooling I wenb to school in Natohez, Mississippi, ~r teaohez osme from the NOrth, I suppose. But those I had in Rodney, I laiow the~r come from the North. Miss wry s all the name I ~iowed--and Misa 3~una were zi~r teaohers in Rodne~y. They come from Chioagoj I never went to sohool here~

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8 . I didn t get no 1~urther than. the seoon4 gmc3.e I stopped sohool to go work when the teaoher went baok to chicago. After that I wea~ to work in the field and made me a living. I hadn t done but a little work in the field helping pa now and then before that. Marriages II nmrried a long time ago in Rodn~Sr. Lord, is been so long ago I couldn t tell you when. I been n~rried four times. They all quit i~ie for other iiien, I didn t quit none of then, ~ Present Condition t, I get alone tolerably now for an old man, th Welfare gives me a little help. But I have to pay five dollars for these two roca~a evezy moitbh, ~ ~ i got to eat, au~ i got to have sai~othin to weea~~ ~ahix~ton wontt allow me nothin for n~r ~ service, Thc~r say I wasn t regular, I get3s eight dollars from the Welfare, Opinions The yo~J~g people s terrible, They rather go to the penitentiary or the county farn or get killed than to do what is right. Vot1x~g and Vocational Experienoes ni used to vote, I never had no trouble about it. ~Th~r tried to whip ~ once since free&m~, but not about VOtiZi A 2~fl tried to whip m.e down in Stoneville beoause another ~.n giTe iae a drink. He tried to eut me ~vith his knife. I knocked hia down. I told h~m I could kill h5113~ b~rt I just didntt v~ aub to, While I was sweariz~g oixb a warraiif; to got hin arrested, he went &nd got a gun scmewheroc~ ~ right on in with his pistol and struok me With it, I 1~iooked hba down again,

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9. :344 and he vms dead for bw enty-five mixnxtes. The~r didn t have to go nowheres to serve the vvarrairt~ on him, Nobody did ax~ything to me about it. UI o ~Ie to Little Rook fIThy years ago or more. I fanned as long as I ~was able. Doctor stopped me when I began to LaU out, ~ I cooked for Dr. Stone and his wife for ten years in Greenville, Miss issippi. Then I coene to Pir~e Bi~ff on a vacation, The nexl time the~r give me e vacation, I ate~yed awsy for eleven years. I went to get some money Dr. Stone owed me for acme work I had done for him once and he waitted me to o~1e baok and cook again. I didntt do that and he died without paying me for the work, He said it was his brother that owed me. But it was him that hired me. I tended to scmte mules for vine months at four dollars a week. I meyer got but one four doflars ~ The imiles belonged to him and his brother both, but it was him that hired me. It wasn t Captain Stone, his brother, It was him, ~.fld I lOOkOd tO the n~n that hired me for ~r money. I didn t have nothing to do with nobody but him. It was him pranised to pay me. Iuberviewer ~ Throughout his story T~s oareful y avoided using his first i~szi~, Never at any time did he let it slip. The capture of New Orleans was effected in 1862. If the troop with which he worked took parl in the capture, he must have beecn tweire years old by 1862, and his age must be at least eighty eight. ~ttt this would be inoonsisteait with hie ~tat ient that he serv~ed Sergeeirb Josephus for two years and a I~lf. The dOtaO1~Out might have gone to New Orleaus later than 62. At az~ rate, Tima is at least eighty-.five, and possibiy older~

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10. Here again we have a definite conviction of the use of the word Ku Klux before the War. The way he talks of it, the teat might bave been a oolloquial terza applied to a jayhawker or a patrollei. He doesntt mean Ku Klux Klan ~ iez~ he sa~a E~i Klux. The Linooln story is included on n~r par~~ mere ~y because it IS at least legendary material, I dontt 1~iow what basis of fact it could or inig1x~ bave.