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A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774-1875
Journals of the Continental Congress --THURSDAY, OCTOBER 13, 1785.
Congress assembled. Present as yesterday.
The journal of yesterday being read, a motion was made by Mr. [David] Howell, seconded by Mr. [William] Ellery, to amend it by inserting a motion which was referred to the grand committee.
On this, a question of Order was moved by Mr. [Rufus] King, in the words following:
Is the Motion of Mr. [David] Howell in Order?
On this question, the president called for the judgment of the house. And the question being stated, a motion was made by Mr. [David] Howell, seconded by Mr. [William Samuel] Johnson, to strike out the word "in," and in lieu thereof to insert "out of." So that the question be, Is the motion of Mr. [David] Howell out of order?
And on the question to agree to this amendment, the yeas and nays being required by Mr. [David] Howell,
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[Note 1: 1 This vote, e is entered in the Journal by Benjamin Bankson and Roger Alden. The motion referred to was made by David Howell; the text of it seems not to have been recorded. See ante, October 12.]
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So the question was lost.
On the question, is the motion of Mr. Howell in Order? The question was lost.
The board of treasury having reported, That in the states of South Carolina and Georgia, there are two joint loan Officers; that in Delaware, Mr. Patterson, the late loan Officer, is dead; and that in the state of New Jersey, Mr. Borden has for some time, on account of his age and infirmities, done no business:
Resolved, That tomorrow be assigned for electing Commissioners of the Continental loan Office, in the States above mentioned.
A motion was made by Mr. [David] Howell, seconded by Mr. [William] Ellery, That the grand committee, to whom was referred a Motion in the words following, viz. That a committee be appointed to devise and report an additional Article to the confederation, to be submitted to the legislatures of the several states, for the purpose of admitting into the federal Union, on certain terms to be specified in the said article, any part or district of any of the United States provided that the legislature of the state to which such district may belong, shall join with the people of such district in an Application to Congress, for the exercise of the power and Authority aforesaid, be directed to report as soon as may be.
On this the previous question was Moved by the State of South Carolina, seconded by Massachusetts; and on the question to agree to the previous question, the yeas and nays being required by Mr. [David] Howell,
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So it was resolved in the affirmative.1
[Note 1: 1 From this point, the text of the Journal proper was entered only in the manuscript Secret Journal, Foreign Affairs No. 5, by Benjamin Bankson, and in Secret Journal, No. 4. A copy is in Secret Journal, No. 6, Vol. III.]
On motion of the Delegates for Massachusetts,
Resolved, That Copies of the papers and documents received from the Governour of the State of Massachusetts respecting the encroachment made by certain Subjects of His Britannic Majesty upon the territories of that State, and within the boundaries of the United States, be transmitted to the Minister plenipotentiary of the United States at the Court of London, to the end that effectual measures should be immediately taken to settle all disputes with the Crown of Great Britain, relative to that line.
Resolved, That the said Minister plenipotentiary be and hereby is instructed, to present a proper representation of this case, and if an adjustment consistent with the true meaning of the definitive Articles of Peace and friendship between the United States and
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his Britannic Majesty cannot by such representation be obtained in the ordinary mode of negotiation; that he propose a settlement and final decision of the said dispute by Commissaries mutually appointed for that purpose; for the appointment of whom, and for all purposes incident to the final determination of the said dispute by Commissaries conformably to the Laws of Nations, the said Minister plenipotentiary is hereby vested with full powers on behalf of the United States of America. Provided that the sd. commissaries do not exceed three in numbers on each side, exclusive of an umpire.1
[Note 1: 1 This report, in the writing of Rufus King, is in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 20, I, folio 189. According to indorsement it was passed this day. The words lined out so appear in the report, but not in the Journal.]
On the report of a Committee, consisting of Mr. [William] Grayson, Mr. [Abraham] Baldwin, Mr. [Rufus] King, Mr. [John] Kean and Mr. [William Samuel] Johnson, to whom was referred a Letter of the 26th September, from the Secretary for Foreign affairs, with a note from the Honbl. Don Diego de Gardoqui, Encargado de Negocios of his Catholick Majesty.
Resolved, That the Secretary of the United States for the Department of Foreign Affairs be directed to inform Don Diego de Gardoqui, Encargado de Negocios for the King of Spain, that although Congress conceive they have an undoubted right to all the territory within the limits specified in the definitive treaty Articles of peace and friendship between the Crown of Great Britain and these United States, yet they view with real concern the unwarrantable attempts of any Individual of these States to disturb the good understanding which now so happily subsists between the two Nations, and which they hope may will be perpetual.
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That Congress are the more affected on this occasion, as all matters of dispute are now in a train of negotiation, and they have no doubt from the justice and magnanimity of his Catholick Majesty that every subject of controversy will be ultimately adjusted to the mutual satisfaction of both parties.
That the Delegates of the State of Georgia, on behalf of the said State, disavow the appointment of Thomas Green or any other person to act as Governour in those parts; and farther declare, that the emigrants to that Country were expressly inhibited from disturbing interrupting the Subjects of Spain, or any other persons whom they might find in possession of the territory or any part thereof.
That Congress will adopt every measure in their power to prevent the publick tranquility from being in any degree disturbed, and that they have the highest confidence in the honor, integrity and candour of the said Encargado de Negocios, that he, being convinced of the good intentions of Congress, will make such a representation to his Court as may remove every subject of inquietude arising from the transactions alluded to in his note to the Secretary for the Department of Foreign Affairs.1
[Note 1: 1 This report, in the writing of William Grayson, is in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 25, II, folio 449. According to indorsement it was read this day and passed; the words lined out so appear in the report, but not in the Journal.
On this day, according to the indorsement, the report of the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, of April 21, on the Eastern Boundary, was postponed.]
[Motion of Delegates of Georgia]
Whereas it is represented by the delegates for the state of Georgia, that the Commissioner for settling the accounts of the army has not issued individual certificates for pay and commutation to each of the officers and soldiers of the Georgia line, as he has done in the other
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states, but has given a general certificate for the sum by him found due from the United States as the pay and commutation of said officers and soldiers agreeably to subsisting resolves of congress.
Resolved, That the loan officer for the state of Georgia issue interest certificates on the said certificate of the Commissioner as on other liquidated debts of the United States.1
[Note 1: 1 This motion, in the writing of Abraham Baldwin, is in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 36, III, folio 185. According to Committee Book No. 190, it was referred to the Commissioner of Army Accounts, who reported October 14, and Committee Book No. 191 states that the report was filed.
On this day, as the indorsement states, was read a memorial of Increase Carpenter and John Carpenter to be paid for cattle purchased for the army in 1779 and 1780, and referred to the Board of Treasury to report. The indorsement further states that a report was rendered March 22, 1786. The memorial is in No. 42, II, folio 188.]
Office For Foreign Affairs,
13th. October, 1785.
The Secretary of the United States for the Department of foreign Affairs to whom was referred back his Report of the 19th.Ult: respecting Consuls--accompanied with a Motion of the Same Date, Reports--
That agreeable to what he conceives to be the Design of this Reference, he has endeavored to contract the Plan contained in that Report, and to adapt it more immediately to our present Circumstances.
Viewing the Subject in that point of Light, he is of opinion, that it would be expedient to vest the Minister of the United States at the Court of Madrid, with the Powers of a Consul General, for Spain and their adjacent Islands vizt. the Canaries and those in the Mediterranean. And that the Chargé des Affaires there, be authorised to excercise those Powers for the present.
That Consuls should be appointed to reside at Bilboa, Cadiz, Malaga, Alicant and Barcelona. That their Jurisdictions be so extended and ascertained, as that every Port in the Kingdom be comprehended within one or the other of the five Consulates. That a Consul be also appointed for the Canaries, to reside at Teneriff.
That it would be expedient to send a Resident to Portugal, to give him an adequate Salary, which your Secretary thinks would be about one thousand pounds sterling a Year, and to vest him with the Powers of a Consul General for that Kingdom, and for the Madeiras.
That one Consul should be appointed for Portugal to reside at Lisbon, and one for the Madeiras, to reside at Madeira.
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That until all Questions relative to the Convention with France, now under the Consideration of Congress, shall be settled; it would be expedient to postpone all other measures respecting Consuls for that Kingdom.
That it would be expedient to vest the Minister of the United States at the Hague, with the Powers of a Consul General; and that one Consul for the United Netherlands be appointed to reside at Amsterdam.
That it would be expedient to vest the Minister of the United States at the Court of London with the Powers of a Consul General for Britain and her adjacent Islands--but as the Government of that Country is administered according to fixed Laws, which as well as their Language and Customs are well known to the people of America, your Secretary thinks there can be but little Use for Consuls in any of their Ports, at least before we have a Treaty of Commerce with them. But lest he should be mistaken in this Opinion, and that Consuls would now be useful; he is inclined to think it would be sufficient to place them at London and Bristol in England, and at Dublin and Cork in Ireland--as to Scotland he cannot judge whether any should be sent there, or if any, to what Ports, in preference to others--the far greater part of the american Trade to Scotland, being carried on in british Vessels.
Whether the present Commerce of the United States with the northern Powers, with Germany and the easterly Shores and the Islands of the Mediterranean, calls for Consuls immediately, your Secretary cannot determine with Certainty--he rather thinks they may at present be dispensed with. He ought however to observe that we have a Treaty of Commerce with Sweden, that they have a Consul here, and that from his Accounts, our Trade is remarkably favored there.
Your Secretary for the Reasons stated in his Report, is of opinion that the before mentioned Consuls should have no Salaries but be permitted to Trade. As to Fees, he can readily suppose that in certain Cases, it would be proper to provide for and ascertained them; but as he doubts the present Power of Congress to charge either vessels or Persons with the Payment of them, he thinks it would be prudent in all Cases to prohibit the Consuls from demanding or receiving any Fees or Perquisites.
Your Secretary, from Regard to that Subordination, which ought to be observed in every Department, thinks that the Consuls General should have Power to suspend for good Cause, any Consul within their
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respective Jurisdictions, and to appoint another to fill his Place until the Pleasure of Congress be known, to whom the Consul General should immediately give Notice of such Suspension and of his Reasons for it.
Your Secretary is further of Opinion that the Consuls General should be so strictly restrained from Commerce, as that on due Proof made of their being either directly or indirectly concerned in it, they should be dismissed from the Service of Congress.
All which is Submitted to the Wisdom of Congress.
John Jay.1
[Note 1: 1 This report is in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 81, I, p. 449. According to indorsement it was read this day and Monday, October 17, assigned.
Also on this day, according to indorsement, was read a letter of October 12 from the Board of Treasury, concerning filling of vacancies in the Loan Offices in various States. It is in No. 140, II, folio 107.
Also, according to indorsement and Committee Book No. 190, was read a letter of October 13 from the Secretary for Foreign Affairs respecting the claims of Joseph Gardoqui & Sons, of Bilboa, on the Eastern Navy Board, and referred to the Board of Treasury to report. A report was rendered October 25. Jay's letter is in No. 80, II, folio 33.
Also, according to memoranda in Committee Book No. 190, the following nominations were made for Commissioners of the Continental Loan Office:
Richard Wylly, for Georgia by the Delegates for that State.
Edward Blake, for South Carolina by the Delegates for that State.
George Davis, for New Jersey by Mr. [Lambert] Cadwallader. "withdrawn" bug no date given.
James Ewing, for do. by Mr. [William Churchill] Houston. "withdrawn."
John Beatty, for do. by Mr. [David] Howell. "withdrawn."
Isaac Smith for do. by Mr. [Jacob] Read.
William Gibbs, "for So. C. by delegates for that State."]
Office For Foreign Affairs,
18th. October, 1785.
Sir: Your Excellency will find herewith enclosed a Letter from Chevalier Jones of 6th. August, and a Copy of a Letter (which is the same that is published in the Philadelphia Paper of the 11th. Instant) from Monsieur Soulanges, dated 14th. July last, to the Judges and Consuls at Nantes, informing that the Algerines had declared War against the United States.
As their late Peace with Spain has rendered their Armaments unnecessary against that Power, they probably chuse to turn them against us, to prevent their being useful, and in Hopes of acquiring considerable Booty. This Peace, if the public Accounts are true,
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gives those Pirates just matter of Triumph, and in this Moment of their Exultation, I am inclined to think that an advantageous Treaty with them is not to be expected,
This War does not strike me as a great Evil, the more we are treated ill abroad, the more we shall unite and consolidate at Home. Besides, as it may become a Nursery for Seamen, and lay the Foundation for a respectable Navy, it may eventually prove more beneficial than otherwise. Portugal will doubtless unite with us in it, and that circumstance may dispose that Kingdom to extend commercial Favors to us farther than they might consent to do, if uninfluenced by such Inducements. For my Part, I think it may be demonstrated, that while we bend our Attention to the Sea, every naval War which does not do us essential Injury will do us essential Good.
I have the Honor Etc.
John Jay.1
[Note 1: 1 This letter is in the Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 80, II, folio 37. According to indorsement it was read this day and "Ordered That this be referred back to the Secy. for foreign Affairs. That he transmit to the several States, copies of the letters enclosed and report with all convenient speed." Jay's letter and also that from John Paul Jones, dated L'Orient, October 6, 1785, and also Soulanges' of July 14 from Toulon, are entered in Resolve Book No. 123, where the order, as quoted, is also entered by Benjamin Bankson, with the additional note:
"Secretary for Foreign Affairs reported October 20th. which report was referred March 29, 1786 to a Committee consisting of Mr. Johnson, Mr. Monroe, Mr. Pinckney, Mr. Kean & Mr. Dane who reported April 5 following."]
His Excellency the President Of Congress.
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