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A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774-1875
Journals of the Continental Congress --FRIDAY, APRIL 20, 1787.
Congress assembled present as before.
2A motion3 having been made by Mr. [James] Madison for sending the minister plenipotentiary at the Court of France under a special commission to the Court of Madrid for purposes therein expressed, the same was
[Note 2: 2 From this point the entries for this day are in the Secret Journal, Foreign Affairs, Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 5, III, pp. 1603--1607. Charles Thomson begins the entry.]
[Note 3: 3 See April 18, 1787.]
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referred to the Secretary for foreign Affairs, who reported1 as follows
[Note 1: 1 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 81, III, pp. 243--248, read April 20, 1787.]
2Office for Foreign Affairs
20th. April 1787.
[Note 2: 2 Benjamin Bankson continues the entry from here.]
The Secretary of the United States for the department of Foreign Affairs to whom was referred a motion made the 18 April Instant by the Honble Mr. Madison in these words vizt. "Resolved that the present state of the negotiations with Spain and of the Affairs of the United States, renders it expedient that the minister plenipotentiary at the Court of France, should proceed under a special Commission to the Court of Madrid, there to make such representations, and to urge such negociations, as will be most likely to impress on the said Court the friendly disposition of the United States, and to induce it to make such concessions and arrangements touching the southern limit of the United States and their right to navigate the Mississippi below the same, and to enter into such commercial stipulations with the United States, as may most effectually guard against a rupture of the subsisting harmony, and promote the mutual Interests of the two Nations.
"Resolved that the Secretary for Foreign Affairs prepare and report the Instructions proper to be given to the said minister plenipotentiary, with a proper Commission and Letter of Credence, and that he also report the communications and explanations which it may be adviseable to make to Mr. Gardoqui relative to this change in the mode of conducting the negociations with his Court."
Reports,
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The first question that this motion presents, is whether it will be expedient to endeavour to carry the Spanish negociation from New York to Madrid.
It is generally and with reason held to be more honorable to a Nation that foreign powers should send Ambassadors to treat with their Sovereign at his own house, than that they should send Ambassadors to treat with a foreign Sovereign at his Court.
It is also, and with equal reason generally deemed more advantageous to negotiate at home than in a distant Country, because in the latter case, much must be confided to the discretion of the negociation, and because the distance prevents his consulting and being directed by his Sovereign on unexpected occasions and events as they rise, and which sometimes require immediate decision.
As these Considerations afford strong and weighty reasons for continuing the present negociation at the seat of Congress, those for carrying it to Madrid should clearly preponderate before they are permitted to operate that change.
Two reasons are assigned for the proposed Change, one of them is exceedingly indefinite, Viz, the present state of our Affairs what particular facts and circumstances in the present state of our Affairs are alluded to, Your Secretary is at a loss to discern; for he does not know of any that would in his Opinion be meliorated by the change.
The other reason is the present state of the negociation, with that he is perfectly well acquainted; but if the negociation goes to Madrid, he does not conceive that it will leave behind it any of the difficulties, questions or Embarrassments which perplex and retard it at New York.
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The reasons therefore assigned in the motion for the measure in question, do not appear to him adequate to the Consequences drawn from them.
Should such a measure by adopted, the Court of Spain will doubtless view it as very singular, and from that Circumstance be disposed to suspect that it originated in other than the avowed inducements, why should Congress forego the honor and convenience of treating with us at home? If discontented with their own negociator, why this circuitous way of changing him? if with ours, how has it happened that no Symtoms of it have appeared? on the contrary we are well informed that he is esteemed and respected in America; as to the differences between us, how are they diminished by this measure? These and a variety of other questions will more readily occur to the Spanish Court, than satisfactory answers to them, and your Secretary apprehends that all these Investigations will terminate in a firm belief that a design to gain time and to amuse was the true reason. Whether such a suspicion would be well or ill founded, would be unimportant; for its operation would be exactly the same in the one Case as in the other. The only question is whether it is not highly probable, nay almost certain that they would impute it to that Cause?
Your Secretary has reason to believe that Mr. Gardoqui, as well as some others, are not ill informed of interesting debates in Congress, and that the Conversation of Members out of doors does not always remain sub Rosa. How or in what point of light, the design of such a measure would strike him, your Secretary can only conjecture. It is however natural to suppose that he would take no pains to prevent its proving abortive, and that his representations of it to his Court would not be
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calculated to give it a welcome reception there, nor to impress them with a favourable opinion of the purposes intended by it.
When too the Court of Spain finds that Mr. Jefferson is only empowered to confer about the Mississippi and the Boundaries, but not to conclude; their suspicions of a design to delay and amuse would be confirmed, for it is observable that the motion proposes only to authorize him to enter into Commercial Stipulations, on the other topics he is to make representations, to urge such negotiations as will be most likely to impress on the Court the friendly disposition of the United States, and to induce it to make Concessions &c. but not a word that gives him power to conclude a Treaty on those points. Perhaps this may only be an inadvertent Inaccuracy in the motion, if not it gives much Colour to the Inferences above suggested.
All these Considerations and Circumstances combined induce Your Secretary to think it highly probable that his Catholic Majesty will not consent to treat at Madrid, that his opinion of the Candour of the United States will be diminished by the measure in question, and that he will direct his Minister here to state his ultimate propositions explicitly to Congress, and to insist on a speedy and categorical Answer.
If such would be the probable Consequence of the measure proposed, your Secretary thinks it would be hazarding too much to adopt it.
If Congress should notwithstanding think it expedient to transfer the negociation to Madrid, your Secretary is convinced that it cannot be confided to a person better qualified to manage it than to Mr. Jefferson; and in that case your Secretary will with alacrity and zeal do whatever may depend upon him to promote the Success of it.
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[Report of committee on copper coinage1]
[Note 1: 1 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 26, pp. 639--641, read April 20, and passed April 21, 1787. See April 9, 1787.]
The Committee [consisting of Mr. William Samuel Johnson, Mr. Rufus King, Mr. William Pierce, Mr. Abraham Clark and Mr. Charles Pettit] to whom was referred a Report of the Board of Treasury on the Subject of Copper Coinage; together with Sundry Propositions, relative to the same, Report That they have carefully examined [That they have carefully investigated the Subject, and find from the present conditions circumstances of the United States that it will be more adviseable to go into the coinage by contract than at a public expence. And that having examined] the Various Proposals on this subject and [made] are of Opinion, that it would be most for the Interest of the United States to form a Contract for the Supply of Three hundred Tons of Copper Coin of the Foederal Standard, on the general Outlines of the Proposition made by Mr. James Jarvis, Provided, That an Augmentation can be obtain'd of the Proemium, propos'd by that Gentleman; and that the Monies arising from the Contract be sacredly appropriated towards the Reduction of the Domestic Debt.
They Submit therefore to the Consideration of Congress the following Resolves, Vizt.
That the Board of Treasury be authorised to Contract for three hundred Tons of Copper Coin of the Foederal Standard agreably to the Proposition of Mr. James Jarvis; provided that the Proemium to be allow'd to the United States, on the Amount of the Copper Coin contracted for be not less than Fifteen per Cent; that it be coin'd at the Expense of the Contracter, at the mint of the United States, and [but] under the Inspection of an Officer by them appointed [and paid by the U States]
That the Obligations to be given for the Payment of the Copper Coin to be delivered under such Contract be redeemable within twenty Years, after the Date thereof, with an Option of discharging the same at an Earlier Period, that they bear an Interest not Exceeding six per Cent per Annum; and that the Principal and Interest accruing thereon be payable within the United States.
That the whole of the Monics arising from the said Contract, shall be sacredly appropriated and applied to the Reduction of the Domestic Debt.
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[Report of Secretary at War on intrusions in Western territory 1]
[Note 1: 1 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 151, p. 255--256, read April 20, and passed April 24, 1787.]
The Secretary of the United States for the department of war to whom was referred his letter2 to Congress of the 16 of April transmitting an extract from Major Wyllys's letter to Lieutenant Colonel Harmar dated Rapids of the Ohio 6th February 1787
[Note 2: 2 See April 18, 1787.]
Reports
That in his opinion the United States are more liable to be disappointed in their just expectations, of the great national advantages resulting from a wise administration of the western territory, by the evils of usurpation and intrusion, than by any other causes whatever.
That the value of the object, The spirit of adventure, and the supposed imbecillity of government, render the dangers of usurpation on a large scale extremely imminent.
That if the disposition, to seize the public lands, be not curbed in the first instance, in a manner demonstrative of the fixed purpose of government all future attempts to remove intruders may be abortive. Their numbers may be so great as to defy the power of the United States. Or a reluctance in the supreme authority to inflict the calamities, necessarily attendant on an abrupt and forcible removal, of men women and children from their possessions, may prevent the measure.
Your Secretary therefore is of opinion, that no intrusions or usurpations ought to be suffered, which the troops stationed on the Ohio are capable of preventing or removing, and that the commanding officer should be directed, to take the most efficient and immediate measures for dispossessing the party of men reported by Major Wyllys to have established themselves at St. Vincents.
On this principle the following resolve is Submitted.
Resolved That the Secretary at War direct the commanding officer of the troops of the United States on the Ohio to take immediate and efficient measures for dispossessing a body of men who have in a lawless and unauthorized manner taken possession of post St. Vincent in defiance of the proclamations and authority of the United States, and that he employ the whole or such part of the force under his command as he shall judge necessary to effect the object.
H Knox.
War office 19 April 1787
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[Letter of Secretary at War respecting General Butler1]
[Note 1: 1 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 150, II, p. 311, read April 20, 1787.]
War Office. April 20th. 1787
Sir: I think it necessary to inform your Excellency that the superintendant of indian affairs for the northern department has been so unfortunate as to break his leg while on his journey to this City in order to receive the orders of Congress relative to his department.
Notwithstanding his misfortune he informs me that means shall be adopted to carry into execution any measures which Congress may judge proper to direct, in the line of his duty.
I have the honor to be, etc.,
H Knox2
[Note 2: 2 April 20, 1787. According to the Committee Book, Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 190, p. 146, the following letters were referred:
Letter of Secretary for Foreign Affairs, March 23, 1787, with its enclosure, so far as they relate to the Spanish captain, referred to Board of Treasury to report.
Letter of Thomas Jefferson to John Jay, January 9, 1787. Copy in Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 107, I, pp. 418--424. So far as relates to the consular convention referred to the Secretary for Foreign Affairs to report. Report rendered May 11, 1787. See April 18, 1787.
According to indorsement the Ordinance for settling the accounts between the United States and the individual States was debated and postponed. See April 18 and May 4, 1787.]
His Excellency
A St Clair Esqr.
President of Congress
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