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A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774-1875
Journals of the Continental Congress --TUESDAY, OCTOBER 2, 1787.
Congress assembled present Massachusetts Connecticut, New York, New Jersey Pensylvania Delaware, Virginia, North Carolina, and South Carolina and from N[ew] Hampshire Mr [Nicholas] Gilman, from Maryland Mr [David] Ross and from Georgia Mr [William] Few.
On a report2 of the board of treasury to whom was referred a state of an Account of John Q. Adams against the United States for his services as private secretary to the honble. Mr Dana whilst on his embassy to the court of Petersburgh.
[Note 2: 2 Read October 13, 1786. See Journals, vol. XXXI, pp. 874--875.]
Resolved That there be allowed to Mr Francis Dana the sum of two thousand four hundred and ten dollars and three ninetieths of a dollar in full for the service and expence of a private secretary by him employed whilst on his embassy
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at the court of Petersburgh from the i July 1781 to the 21 April 1783.
The board of treasury to whom was referred a memorial1 of John Cochran Commissioner of the loan Office for the state of New York having reported2
[Note 1: 1 See July 18, 1787.]
[Note 2: 2 See July 31, 1787.]
"That in such states where the transactions of the commissioners of the loan Office shall in the judgment of the board of treasury render it necessary there be allowed one clerk at a salary not exceeding four hundred dollars per Annum and the further sum of one hundred dollars per annum in full of all charges for office rent candles and firewood. "
Question taken and unanimously negatived.
On the report3 of the board of treasury to whom was referred a memorial4 of Benjamin Stelle,
[Note 3: 3 See May 2, 1787.]
[Note 4: 4 From this point to the end of the day the proceedings are entered by Benjamin Bankson and attested by Charles Thomson, in the Secret Journal Foreign, Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 6, III, pp. 402--405. They are also entered by Bankson (the introductory sentence and resolve by Thomson) in the Secret Journal, Foreign Affairs, Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 5, III, pp. 1649--1653.]
Resolved That there be allowed to Benjamin Stelle the pay and emoluments of a deputy paymaster in a separate department from the first of June 1779 to the first of April 1781.
5The Board of Treasury to whom was referred an extract of a Letter6 from the honorable Mr Jefferson Minister plenipotentiary to the Court of France, having reported,7
[Note 5: 5 See March 28, 1787.]
[Note 6: 6 See February 2, 1787.]
[Note 7: 7 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 140, II, pp. 463--467. This report was rendered February 19, 1787.]
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That the said Minister states, "That a proposition has been made to Monsieur de Calonne, Minister of the Finances of France, by a company of Dutch Merchants to purchase the debt due from the United States to the Crown of France; giving for the said debt, amounting to Twenty four million of Livres, the sum of Twenty million of Livres. That information of this proposition has been given to him by the Agent of the said Company, with the view of ascertaining whether the proposed Negotiation should be agreeable to Congress."
That the said Minister suggests "That if there is a danger of the public payments not being punctual, whether it might not be better that the discontents which would then arise should be transferred [from] to a Court, of whose good will we have so much need, to the breasts of a private Company."
"That the credit of the United States is sound in land; and that it would probably not be difficult to borrow in that Country, the whole sum of money due to the Court of France; and to discharge that debt without any deduction, thereby doing what would be grateful to the Court, and establishing with them confidence in our honor."
On a mature consideration of the circumstances above mentioned, the Board beg leave to observe,
That at the time the debt due from the United States to the Crown of France was contracted, it could not have been foreseen, that the different Members of the Union, would have hesitated to make effectual provision for the discharge of the same; since it had been contracted for the security of the Lives, Liberties and property of their several citizens, who had solemnly pledged themselves for its redemption; and that therefore the honor of the United States cannot be impeached for
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having authorized their Minister at the Court of France to enter into a formal Convention acknowledging the amount of the said debt, and stipulating for the reimbursement of the principal and interest due thereon.
That should the United States at this period, give any sanction to the transfer of this debt, or attempt to make a Loan in Holland for the discharge of the same, the persons interested in the transfer or loan would have reason to presume that the United States in Congress would make effectual provision for the punctual payment of the principal and interest.
That the prospect of such provision being made within a short period, is by no means flattering; and though the credit of the United States is still sound in Holland, from the exertions which have been made to discharge the interest due to the Subscribers to the Loans in that Country; yet in the opinion of this Board it would be unjust, as well as impolitic, to give any public sanction to the proposed negociation. Unjust, because the Nation would contract an engagement, without any well grounded expectation of discharging it with proper punctuality. Impolitic, because a failure in the payment of interest accruing from this negociation (which would inevitably happen) would justly blast all hopes of credit with the Citizens of the United Netherlands, when the exigencies of the Union might render new Loans indispensably necessary.
The Board beg leave further to observe, that although a grateful sense of the services rendered by the Court of France would undoubtedly induce the United States in Congress to make every possible exertion for the reimbursement of the Monies advanced by his Most Christian Majesty; yet that they cannot presume, that it would tend to establish in the mind of the French Court,
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an idea of the National honor of this Country, to involve Individuals in a heavy Loan at a time when Congress were fully sensible, that their resources were altogether inadequate to discharge even the interest of the same; much less the installments of the principal which would from time to time become due. How far the idea of transferring the discontents which may prevail in the French Court, for want of the punctual payment of interest to the breast of the private Citizens of Holland would be consistent with sound policy, the Board forbear to enlarge on.
It may be proper however to observe that, the public integrity of a Nation, is the best shield of defence, against any calamities, to which in the course of human events, she may find herself exposed.
This principle so far as it respects the conduct of the United States in contracting the Loans with France cannot be called in question. The reverse would be the case, should the sanction of the United States be given, either to the transfer of the French debt, or to the Negociation of a Loan in Holland for the purpose of discharging it.
If it be further considered, that the consequences of a failure in the punctual payment of interest on the Monies borrowed by the United States, can by no means be so distressing to a Nation (and one powerful in resources) as it would be to Individuals, whose dependence for support is frequently on the interest of the Monies loaned, the Board presume that the proposed negociation cannot be considered at the present juncture in any point of view, either as eligible or proper. Under these circumstances they submit it as their Opinion,
That it would be proper without delay to instruct the Minister of the United States at the Court of France not to give any sanction to any negotiation which may
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be proposed for transferring the debt due from the United States, to any State or company of Individuals who may be disposed to purchase the same.
Resolved That Congress agree to the said report.
Chas Thomson Secy
[Motion respecting remission of penalties of Mr. Twining1]
[Note 1: 1 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 61, p. 566, in the writing of Mr. Richard Henry Lee. This motion is also entered by Roger Alden in the Committee Book, Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 190, p. 169. According to indorsement and the Committee Book it was referred to the Post Master General to take order.]
Whereas the Act of Congress of Septr. 25 last confines the remission of penalties to Mr. Twining to failures of his Contract by conveying the Mail by Horses instead of Carriages, which relief will be but partial, as from unavoidable accidents in some instances the carriage of the Mail was interrupted
Resolved That the Postmaster General extend the remission of penalties incurred by Mr. Twining in the failure of his Contracts to all such failures as have been already incurred.
[Motion respecting salary of Governor of Western territory2]
[Note 2: 2 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 30, p. 131 ½. According to indorsement and the Committee Book, Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 190, p. 171, this motion was referred to a committee consisting of Mr. William Grayson, Mr. John Armstrong and Mr. Abraham Clark, which reported October 3, 1787.]
R. That the Salary of the Governor of the Western territory under the Ordince. of Congress of the 13th. day of Aug. [July] 1787 be dollars annually, to commence from the time of his exercising the duties of his office.
[Report of Committee on petition of J. C. Symmes3]
[Note 3: 3 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 42, VII, p. 296, in the writing of Mr. Nathan Dane. The report is indorsed on the memorial of Symmes. According to indorsement and the Committee Book, Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 190, p. 169, the petition was referred in accordance with the recommendation of the report. The petition of Symmes was entered in the Committee Book on pp. 169--170 by Roger Alden. See September 20 and 21, 1787.]
The Committee consisting of [Mr. Nathan Dane, Mr. William Grayson, Mr. Abraham Clark, Mr. Melancton Smith and Mr.
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William Samuel Johnson] to whom was referred the aforesaid petition report that the following resolve that the said petition be referred to the board of Treasury to take order.
[Report of Board of Treasury on Canadian refugees1]
[Note 1: 1 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 138, I, pp. 191--192, read October 2, 1787. The covering letter, also read, is in Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 140, I, p. 403. The resolve of this report was passed October 12, 1787. See September 24, 1787.]
The Board of Treasury to whom was referred a Memorial of the Canadian Refugees on Lake Champlain, praying for a continuance of the supply of Public Provisions
Beg leave to submit to the Consideration of Congress the following Resolves, Vizt.
That the present state of the Treasury of the United States does not enable them to continue the general supply of Rations to the Canadian Refugees beyond the time prescribed by the Act2 of Congress of the 30th. June 1786.
[Note 2: 2 Journals, vol. XXX, pp. 381--382.]
That such of the Aged and Infirm amongst the said Canadians as may not be able to provide for the subsistence of themselves and families, be supplied for the space of Twelve Months with rations at the public expence (excepting the articles of Rum, Soap and Candles) agreeably to such a return of persons coming under the above description, as shall be made to the Board of Treasury by the Secretary at War.
The above Resolves are founded on the principles of a Report3 of this Board of the 20th. of May 1786, to which we beg leave to refer; with this observation, that the reasons which induced this Board at that time, not to recommend a general supply of Rations to the Canadian Refugees, operate more forcibly at present, than they did at that period.
[Note 3: 3 Journals, vol. XXX, p. 298 n.]
All which is most humbly submitted.
Samuel Osgood
Walter Livingston
Arthur Lee
Board of Treasury
October 2d. 1787.
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[Report of Board of Treasury on memorials of T. Hutchins and surveyors1]
[Note 1: 1 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 138, I, pp. 621--624, read October 2, and passed October 3, 1787. A copy of a proposition of Hutchins is on p. 617. See September 22 and 24, 1787.]
The Board of Treasury, to whom was referred a Memorial and Letter of Thomas Hutchins Geographer to the United States, and sundry Memorials of the Surveyors employed under him in the Western Territory praying a Compensation on Account of their extra expence &c. in executing Surveys under the present Ordinance
Beg leave to Report,
That it appears from Mr. Hutchins' Memorial that in the year's 1785, 1786 and 1787, it became necessary to advance to the Surveyors employed under him, certain sums of Money, to enable them to purchase provisions, hire Chain Bearers &c. in order to execute the surveys, agreeably to the Ordinance2 of the 20th. May 1785, without which, it is the opinion of the Geographer that no Surveys whatsoever could have been executed.
[Note 2: 2 Journals, vol. XXVIII, pp. 375--381.]
That these advances exceed the established Compensation to which the Surveyors are respectively entitled; and that this excess arises from the allowance being (as we presume) not adequate to the nature of the Service; and from the Interruption, and expence occasioned by the hostile disposition of the Indians, which obliged the Surveyors to give up their Surveys, 'till they could replace the Horses stolen from them.
That the situation of most of the Surveyors appears to be such, from the Representation of the Geographer General, that unless some relief is extended to them, they will be exposed to suits, on account of the debts contracted by them in the necessary execution of their duty.
That Congress on the 25th. September 17863 directed the sum of One thousand six hundred and seventy three Dollars 62/90;ths, to be paid to certain Surveyors, on account of their extra expences in endeavoring to execute Surveys in the year 1785.
[Note 3: 3 See Journals, vol. XXXI, p. 687.]
Under the above Circumstances, the Board being of Opinion, that the present instance is of such a nature, as to authorise a further compensation to the several Memorialists who apply for relief; submit to the Judgment of Congress the following Resolve Vizt.
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That the Geographer of the United States Certify to the Board of Treasury such reasonable charges of the extra expence, as shall appear to him on the best Vouchers, or other evidence which Agreed to 3 Oct 1787 the nature of the case will admit of, to have been necessarily incurred by the Surveyors of the Western Territory in the execution of their respective Surveys; and that the Board of Treasury take such order, as the State of the Treasury will best admit of, for the payment of such of the said Expences, as they shall judge proper.
The Board beg leave however to suggest, that whilst the peculiar Situation of the Memorialists induces them to recommend their case to the Consideration of Congress, whether it would not be adviseable to adopt some system for carrying on the Surveys in future, which may not only abridge, but ascertain this expence; more particularly, as by the extent of the Surveys Westward, the Contingent Claims will be constantly encreasing; In this point of View they submit to the consideration of Congress a Proposition made by the Geographer General for giving a discriptive Survey of several of the principal Rivers in the Western Territory on a Plan which (though differing from the present Ordinance) may probably be deemed not unworthy the attention of Congress.
All which is most humbly submitted
Samuel Osgood
Walter Livingston
Arthur Lee
Board of Treasury
October 2d. 1787.
[Report of Secretary at War respecting troops 1]
[Note 1: 1 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 151, pp. 295--298, read October 2, and passed October 3, 1787. See September 27 and 28, 1787.]
The Secretary of the United States for the department of war, to whom was referred his letter of the 26'th of September last,
Reports,
That the interests of the United States require, that a body of troops should be stationed, on the frontiers, in order to protect the settlers under lawful authority, from the depredations of the indians, and to prevent the valuable territory, north-west of the Ohio, from being wrested out of the public possession, by lawless adventurers.
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That as the time for which the greater part of the troops, on the frontiers, are engaged, will expire in the course of the ensuing year, it is necessary that measures be immediately adopted, either for reengaging the same men, or engaging others to replace them.
That the commissioned officers of the said troops having attained a knowledge of military discipline in general, and of the nature of the service in which they are employed in particular, are more valuable to the public, than others not possessing the same advantages, and therefore ought to be retained in service. That it is also important to re-engage as many of the non-commissioned officers and privates, as possible, as well for the discipline they possess, as to save the time, and money, necessary to transport recruits to replace them.
That for these reasons, it would be proper to renew the requisitions on those States, which furnished the troops required by the Act1 of Congress of April 1785; the whole number being so small, as to render the proportion of each of the said States, an object of no great importance.
[Note 1: 1 April 1, 7, and 12, see Journals, vol. XXVIII, pp. 223--224, 239--240 and 247--248.]
On these principles the following resolves are submitted:
Whereas the time for which the greater part of the troops on the frontiers are engaged will expire in the course of the ensuing year,
Resolved,2
[Note 2: 2 The resolves of the report were spread verbatim on the Journal on October 3, 1787 and hence are omitted here.]
*******
All which is humbly submitted,
H Knox
War Office
October 2nd. 1787.
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[Letter of Secretary for Foreign Affairs transmitting letter of Gardoqui 1]
[Note 1: 1 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 80, III, p. 329, received October 2, 1787.]
Office for Foreign Affairs
2d. October 1787
Sir: I have the Honor to transmit to your Excellency herewith enclosed a Letter2 from Mr de Gardoqui of 18th. September last, together with a Translation of it, and am with great Respect, etc.,
[Note 2: 2 Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 97, pp. 201--202, with translation on p. 203. It expressed thanks of Spanish king for assistance of the Council of Pennsylvania to the Frigate Loretto.]
John Jay.3
[Note 3: 3 October 2, 1787. According to indorsement and the Committee Book, Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 190, p. 171, an extract of the letter of Thomas Jefferson to J. Jay, August 6, 1787, so far as relates to money due foreign officers, was referred to Board of Treasury to report. The extract, in the writing of Roger Alden, is in Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 138, I, pp. 635--636. The Board reported August 11, 1788. See September 25, 1787 and August 20, 1788.
According to the Despatch Book, Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 185, IV, p. 19, there was received a letter from Donald Campbell to President of Congress, July 2, 1787, requesting copies of sundry documents relating to his claims. Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 78, VI, p. 331. According to indorsement a motion to grant Campbell's request was passed in the negative on October 2, and the request was granted on October 3, 1787.
According to indorsement was read a letter of Joseph Parker to Arthur St. Clair, October 2, 1787, respecting the Western territory. Papers of the Continental Congress, No. 56, pp. 209--210.]
His Excellency
The President of Congress.
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